From the Source; Rev. Michael Haynes

And welcome to a special presentation from WM BFM Boston ninety one point nine on your FM dial. This is your host Haywood Blackledge. We have as our guest Reverend Michael Haynes and we're going to talk to see evening about what Martin Luther King's birthday and the celebration means to all of us by an act of Congress do we sign by other presidents his birthday will be celebrated honored as our 10th federal holiday on the Monday and on the second Monday of this and every succeeding January as long as this country exists as we know it by these actions we've come to celebrate the birthday of Martin Luther King Jr. Dr. King would have been 57 years old last week. We welcome our special guests as I said. Reverend Michael Hans page associate of mine with the Kings while he was here I have a short quote to read before we start. Bennett has been quoted as

saying The crucial point here and elsewhere is that this is not a holiday for rest and for volume and play. This is a day for study for struggle and preparation for the victory to come. And if we ever want to tell we will use this time to mobilize against the evils he identified in his last article that is the late Martin Luther King identified in his last article the evils of racism in order to resume unemployment and violence. Welcome Evan Haynes to WSB tonight into this special presentation. What is the real meaning of the King holiday to you. We know how the Rhone Bennett feels about this. I have my own feelings would be very interested to know how you feel about it. I can find a simple definition or explanation for the meaning of the holiday to me because

it's an intimate weaving of many years of my pilgrimage in life and my pilgrimage in the city of Boston particularly Boston was a home away from home for Dr. King he has some very deep roots in Boston it was in Boston that he met his wife Coretta Scott and twelfth Baptist Church which I was then serving back in the early 50s as minister to youth was an integral part of this. King connection between Atlanta and Boston and Dr. King's father Daddy King and my predecessor who was then my sort of my mentor William Hunter has to wear my friends and peers so steep relationship it was matriculating at this time Parton he came to Boston and started his doctoral work at Boston University saw this. This takes us to 1951 and that's the same time that I came to a Baptist church as minister to youth. But I'm thinking about the holiday and I had the privilege of being invited by Congressman Moakley down to Washington for the unveiling of the

of the sculptured likeness of Dr. King in the United States Capitol Rotunda. It sounds very sad it was an exciting experience with an awful lot of well packed emotion with a double kind of meaning there because that was not the king an opportunity to see his grown children see his family but also the sculptor was also from rocks Yes that's right it was one that was probably the next next block. From where I live where I grew up that ties in with with my feeling about the holiday I lived most of my life I wasn't born on Haskell street but I lived most of my life the majority of my life on Haskin street and next to Haskell street was open avenue where John Wilson the Wilson family came from. Twenty years I was growing up it was a very very mixed I had a real genesis neighborhood and Haskell street was at the time of my childhood predominantly Irish Catholic and Jewish. If you have any folks down there on Haskins street that would like to call in on our telephone line Our number is 9 2 9 7 9 2 9 9 2

9 7 9 2 9. I guess is Reverend Haines. This is WSB FM Boston ninety one point nine on your FM dial. And they'd have to be from Haskins from Haskell street since Haskell street no no market. It's the site of the Madison Madison Park athletic field. But going back to school Haskin Street let's take ourselves way back to the time when Dr. King might have been about 10 years 10 years old or nine years old to the 1930s at that time there were Italians there were Irish and there were Jewish and blacks were just beginning to move into the community. I can recall going to going to junior high school particularly at the time of the great celebrations one of the great celebrations and in the Boston area although not a national holiday was in vacuo Evacuation Day on St. Patrick's Day and that was a very significant holiday. How did you feel when when people celebrated so-called evacuation and St. Patrick's Day you know how I felt when I was in Catholic school and

it was there when I was in the fold I was not part of the flock. I think my feeling was very very similar. I didn't feel completely left out I try to identify it because I had friends and I had Irish friends my next door neighbor was Jimmy Callahan and I remember him particularly and then I remember John the Gary who was in junior high school with me lived up in the Highland Street area of Roxbury and I know how excited he got about St. Patrick's Day and I can remember I was friends of mine teasing me about putting on something green for Irish day. For St. Patrick's Day and then I would be a little bit mixed because while anyone would look at me and realize at that time there weren't too many people of docu coming from Ireland or descending from those who had come from Ireland so it was rather dubious as to whether or not I could really be excellent in the wearing of the green but I gave it my best shot during those days and I remember all the sentimentality of singing singing a lot of the Irish. I was songs already mother come from Ireland.

Something about you Irish and all my Irish friends being excited about it I had to sing it with reverence because I have to respect the majority and I respect my friends and a similar kind of nostalgia and a similar kind of recollections for Columbus Day. And from another community or another community but you know there were Italians you know my and my friends were classmates with Johnny could go on Salvatore model they came right from the street with the street area of Roxbury and I can remember how they felt about about Columbus Day and about singing the songs that related to their Italian background I can remember Salvatore amount of making some references to me about how the proper way for me to sing Santa Lucita. And so all in all there was no hope for you at this time. Then I probably was around 13 14 years 13 or 14 years of a growing into a man. Yes but I can recollect you know trying to identify with with with with my with my peer group on their holidays. And similarly.

How with my Jewish friends the Jewish synagogues in the community and other Jewish kids went to school went to school with me one at one of them I saw very recently. Still working working at a Jewish deli and not a pan Square. But we went to we went to school together and I can remember the holy days for the Jewish folk in the community because I and my brothers had to go into the synagogue and turn the lights on on the Sabbath and do cleanup work around there for the High Holy Days young people in Russia show honor and Passover and all those sorts of things so I sensed what was going on and I sensed the feeling and the excitement in the hope of achieving my Jewish friends. So I tried to identify as best I could in a limited sense with the holidays but also felt. That there was something about being black where in we were being told by the controlling elements of society that we did not really belong. We did not really belong to America and then if you can recall one of one of Dr. King's one of Dr. King's major speeches in fact it was a speech that he made at the Massachusetts

legislature many many years later when I was a member of the House of Representatives. We invited Dr. King I and two other black legislators Frank Colgate and Royal. I mean I remember we invited Dr. King during the three day trip that he spent in Boston for the march in Boston to address the Massachusetts legislature there in that in that great speech he talked about the fact that black people were here in America early and that we laid the fuck we laid the foundations for America receiving nothing in return it's right in a slave situation worked for. That's And we made cotton king to use all the time with no pay in fact that was one of his novel theories about something we'll get to later which was affirmative action how he felt very strongly. There are things I don't know. There were things that were just owed us and he used he used an analogy that I didn't think was from theology but. But it's totally understandable to those of us that have that or have my kind of training and that is if it's a common law theory that you get something for what you've given is just righting

wrong or it's just it's just payment it's clearly a settlement for what is owed. No more than that. Shelly go on for yourself. And that Massachusetts legislator speakeasy spoke of all that blacks had done to make America great. And I can and that brought to my mind some statements made by a member of a outstanding Boston family by the name of Peabody now no longer existing is now deceased but a gentleman by the name of Peabody who was on the board of trustees of Robert Boucher house in Breezy Meadows camp he was a philanthropist in the black community. One time in talking said that his ancestors had received their money he became rich because his ancestors had been involved in both slave trade and rum traffic and and all of those things that blacks had to work at and receiving nothing in return. Dr. King spoke about that so blacks had certainly every right to expect a share in America because they helped they legitimately help to make America great if it's great they help to make it

great so therefore they had every reason to be a part of our part of the main. So when that when the time came for the holiday I was very excited when the Massachusetts legislature after being the first legislature in the country to invite Dr. King to address it then became one of the first star states in the nation to to declare Martin Luther King's birthday a holiday. So there are some very very good things about Massachusetts. And then we got out of the federal holiday to be able to realize that at last the federal government was in fact saying that blacks are part of America. Have shared in the making America great. I have every reason to be accepted in America and this is one of the highest ways that we can do it by making Martin Luther King birthday a holiday not just for black people but for all people who believe in the highest ideals of what America stands for. Again you're listening to Reverend Michael Haines a former state representative and as he's pointed out almost forgot that we're in there be U.N.

BFM Boston ninety one point nine on your FM dial. You may call in to speak to either me or Dr. 9 2 9 7 9 2 9 9 2 9 7 9 2 9 7 Haines I I I have to grasp hold of this theory and this thought because it was very appealing to me as something that just about any person that deals with common sense would understand this theory that as Martin Luther King said no amount of gold could provide an adequate compensation for the exploitation and humiliation of the Negro in America down through the centuries yet. Our price can be placed on unpaid wages. The ancient common law has always provided a member for the appropriation of the labor of one human being by another. Dr. King went on to say this floor should be made to apply for American Negroes that payment should be in the form of a massive program by the government of special

compensatory measures which could be regarded as a settlement in accordance with the accepted practice of common law. That makes absolute sense to me. Why don't other Americans embrace that same theory. Well it's very very hard for folk that have power and wealth and resource to want to let loose of any of it. Dr. King said over and over again that no person is going to surrender power and oftentimes when the people that power is manifested through money. The ship too said the same thing at Harvard just a couple of weeks ago that no one with any power is going to release any of it unless they're really pressured to. So you really have to work at the conscience of America Dr. King spoke over and over again about working that the conscience of America the president of the NAACP said the same thing yesterday in Faneuil Hall. Jackie Robinson that that Dr. King provided a way of getting a boulevard through which to we could get to the conscience of America. And only when you really get down to the heart of the the best that may

be in humanity will they even begin to realize that something is old. But even after realizing it they are very very willing to surrender it unless they're really pressured to do so. Speaking about surrendering and being pressured are very hard. Taint two to this holiday for me and I think for other black Americans where we see and we know that strides made progress made in this country by the efforts of Dr. King and others many others has is now being reversed by this president and ministration in Washington. And in fact in fact there was there was much reluctance on the part of the president and other and other conservative members of Congress not to have this come about. And as a matter of fact it was the pressure that brought this thing to happen 100000 people watching marched in Washington and it culminated in the signing of that bill without that kind of

support it would not have happened. At the same time we get a holiday we get we get cut backs an aid to our people we get we get reversal for affirmative action programs we get a Justice Department that is not there is no longer sensitive to us. We have the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. How does that sit with you that that while we well we can have this happiness. We do have this I mean there is an irony here there is a skit skittishness among folks that says we have a holiday but we also have a real problem. How are we going to make progress out of this. Many of the outstanding black minds and those who are sympathetic and this and understanding of the black cause are expressing themselves on that very point saying that it is very very clear we're going to get very very little given to us from the government sector from here in. In fact there are clear signs of this all over the United States of America

that there are going to be other groups that are going to become a little more prefer them than blacks in America. We've given you your opportunity we've given you a period of affirmative action we lock some doors field and it can be very difficult for any of us to receive anything without working very very hard to get it. Oppression very very hard to get. So we have to keep really keep the pressure on at this time as we move ahead. We have a call from Lauren from Carlisle. Go ahead Lauren you're on the re UMD FM. OK I'll. Let you rest. I think what Lauren is that you know what didn't you just do now

that perpetuate the works of Martin Luther King I think she's feeling a little bit of frustration given our conversation and maybe some of the negative aspects of of where we're going in society now she's saying where can we go with this working teenager. I think that help and in such matters I think a very exciting expression was given on yesterday at Faneuil Hall when children from the middle school the Martin Luther King Jr. Middle School in Iraq Sybarite made some statements about how they felt about Dr. King and these young people were white. Black brown and yellow and these young people was saying how they felt about what Dr. King did and what he said and what how they wanted to respond as a part of the fabric of America. So even with with with children and with teenagers and young people who are in the process of studying there are all kinds of opportunities to fulfill some of Dr. King's dreams our highest ideals and make them come true. And one of the things is about love learning to love

people recognize that as he said over and over again that we are all into one of them we're all tied together by a network of humanity. And you have to recognize that even people that may not be living in your neighborhood that may be different than than you are just as important in God's sight as you are. And a young person can certainly show love and respect and appreciation for all manner of people not only those separated by color distinctions or religious distinctions or economic distinctions and do everything in your power as a young person to to recognize the rights and protect the rights of all people in society. That's one little way. But one very significant way. Thank you Lauren for your call. This is WMD Af-Am Boston. Ninety one point nine and guile. We're talking with Reverend Haynes tonight in a past associate and friend of Dr. Martin Luther King. We welcome him into UMass Boston and if you'd like to call in and ask any questions of Rev.. This is 9 2 9 7 9 2 9

9 2 9 7 9 9 9. I'm your host Hayward Blackledge. Evan Haynes very little is made of the intellectual aspect of Dr. King's life much to my chagrin. For instance I know that in 1044 he entered Morehouse College in Atlanta at the age of 15. An extraordinary feat. I mean he skipped grades as a child he was a very brilliant man. He spent much of his life in study of theology and the Study of Politics and the study of social change and used all those different things to meld into his philosophy. What do you know of his of his intellectual accomplishments that you could share with our listeners. I said he would punctuate and affirm what you said about Dr. King being in an outstanding mind the president of Boston University Dr. John sober yesterday at Faneuil Hall made reference of the fact that Dr. Dr. King was very very advanced and had

and virtually genius genius mind. Very outstanding he received his doctorate from Borst Ph.D. in systematic theologies from one of the one of the reasons one of the reasons why we don't hear very much about it is because a lot of lot of folk in the United States of America a lot of the establishment establishment in the United States of America would like to write him off. And this is one of the reasons why he was pursuing a Ph.D. degree. And you have a black Baptist minister saying that ministers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ need to provide themselves credentials where in their going to be recognized. And a Ph.D. is a passport to opportunities that will never come to him no one could write him down and say he's just an emotional preacher preaching pie in the sky by and by. Here's a man that had studied with the best of the scholars studied of studied all of the best of the scholars and became one of the scholars It was quite apparent even when he started his doctoral work that Martin Luther King Jr. could leave Boston upon completion of his work and be a professor in almost any college or university

in the nation and into being a dean and of being a president. That's what I anticipated expected from many of the young fellows that came to Boston studying about the same time as he did. Ended up being the deans of the presidents of many of the black colleges and and playing key roles in interracial colleges in the United States. So Dr. King certainly. It was outstanding as a as a scholar that comes out of his work and to receive a Ph.D. at the time by the time you're twenty six for a black boy coming out of Atlanta Georgia is no little feat. And despite the fact that he got it he had a good background God bless him with a good background with parents. They my grandparents that cared about him and tried to teach him some of the deeper things of life he could have taken a short cut. He also seemed to have not just the will to get credentials but had a had a depth and want for other people to have education he felt that education was a way for for us to progress and to proceed in society and that that that seems to have been lost in his own social

progress. Well that shouldn't be lost I don't know that that part was lost I know there has been. Some degree of overlooking the fact that he was an outstanding mind that he was an intellectual but he was he was more superb than most intellectuals because most folks that are very intellectual that borderline borderline genius have a tendency to become rather abstract rather remove rather eccentric. But here is a person that is intellectual borderline Gene borderline Jesus a genius and able to be very practical able to relate to people on all levels of life able to move in all kinds of communities of people and establish a rapport with them communicate with them feel at ease and solve and help other people to be able to feel it feel at ease or refer to it as a transcendence that he could go to the White House and which which he is reported to have broken a couple of dates with. With President Johnson he was he was down marching with sanitation workers

at this at the time when he could have been in Washington. And he I guess he felt as comfortable marching with those sanitation workers as he would have been sitting with the with the president of the United States I think that kind of transcendence is phenomenal in and should be noted. Even even with young people when he joined the time he was studying in Boston it was not strange for Martin to come over to Roxbury to 12 Baptist Church which was then located on Sherman Avenue right near the robin Sure house and and go inside the lobby who show house and see what the young people are doing. See what the kids were about. So you want an identify he was concerned with them. We're going to take a break right now and Debbie UMTS down Boston ninety one point nine. I telephone numbers 9 2 9 7 9 3 9 should you want to speak with our with our guest. I've written Michael and we should be back in a couple minutes. This is Governor Mike Dukakis. When thousands of disabled people were cut off from their Social

Security benefits for many their only source for food shelter and medicine. Massachusetts joined the fight to get those benefits back. We won a court battle and cleared the way for our disable citizens to get the kind of support they need and deserve. If you're disabled and we're cut off from SSI benefits and Social Security to review your case. Why you wait. You can start getting your checks again. Your Medicare and Medicaid too. Security rules in your favor. You can get every penny to right back to the day you stop receiving your benefits. Call or visit your social security office today. Get back what you're entitled to. For more information call the toll free number at Legal Services. One hundred eighty five 1 5 1 2 1 for the hearing impaired. 7 2 0 0 4 2 8 5. That's 1 800 of 1 8 5 1 2 for the hearing impaired call 7 2 0 4 2 8 5. Parents of special needs children and adults are invited to call the Greater Boston Association for Retarded Citizens for information on chapter six eighty eight. Despite

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minister an activist a politician and the brother of a great jazz musician. He's also an associate was an associate of Dr. Martin Luther King's and he's going to share some of his thoughts about about the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King where you can be found in Boston. Ninety one point nine. Our telephone call in line is 9 2 9 7 9 2 9 9 2 9 7 9 2 9 7 hands. On the issue of nonviolence which was the cornerstone of Dr. King's modus. That is this is what he thought was the way in which to proceed. He he he walked in this in the in the steps of Gandhi. He was an associate of Nehru. His was his was an international movement. But it was the cornerstone of the civil rights movement of that day. Dr. King was quoted as saying it was one of my favorite quotes from him he said An eye for an

eye and a tooth for tooth will eventually lead to a blind society and a toothless generation. He was highly praised and eventually highly criticized for sticking to the nonviolent methods to bring about social change. Many of us had doubts about whether that was the way to go. At different times of our of our development and our social progress as black people. I've since come to think that that was the way certainly then and it worked well. Where do you think that fits into the to the to the progress that we've made now and what was your perception maybe to go back further what was your perception of of how Martin developed that that nonviolent modus that he stuck with tenacious through tenaciously through through the most vituperative criticism and was just a difficult method to use in going back and

reading some of the early writings and listening to some of the early addresses of Dr. Kings and even some of his very very early sermons. For things sort of walked out to me some time ago and one was his perspectives on young people very very interesting to trace and track everything that Dr. King says about young young people in general and black people particularly. And then a second perspective then walks out of all of his writings is perspectives on theology and philosophy and the third thing that walks out in a very distinct way is his perspectives on America the American dream nationalism and then the fourth thing one which he got in trouble for was his global perspectives his perspectives on the international scene the entire world going back going back to the second one his perspectives on theology and philosophy. Here he is see his studies of Gandy coming out. But then you have to realize that here's a man that put a faith in Jesus Christ and he put our faith in Jesus Christ as the

Son of God. And if he was a Christian minister to leave the Gospel of Jesus Christ who also believed that God had revealed his love in Jesus Christ in one of his first writings strength to live Dr. King in his profound chapter on love and action opens his treaties with these eternal words few words in the New Testament more clearly and solemnly expressed the magnanimity of Jesus spirit than the Sub-Prime utterance from the cross. Father forgive them for they know not what they do. This is love at its best says Dr. King. He further states we must see the cross of Jesus as the magnificent magnificent symbol of love conquering hate and of light overcoming darkness. But in the midst of this glowing affirmation Let us never forget that our Lord and Master was nailed to that cross because of human blindness. Those who crucified him knew not what they did. Those are his words and he became somewhat descriptive of the traditional spiritual that says see how they done my lord. He never said a mumbling word in establishing his biblical basis for nonviolence. Dr. King says in his chapter

entitled loving your enemies love is the most durable power in the world. This creative force so beautifully exemplified in the life of our Christ is the most potent instrument available and mankind's quest for peace and security. May we solemnly realize that we shall never be true sons of our heavenly Father until we love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. And Dr. King fulfilled that kind of a Christian mandate right to the very end of his life. And it was in that in that willingness to suffer in that one in this to die came the victory that's going to give many of us many of us a new life in fact in his in his address in the Massachusetts legislature. He makes reference to the fact that a minister from Boston who had went south. On and was killed himself Reverend James Reed and demonstration for justice and equality. And Dr. King made reference of that when he spoke at the Massachusetts legislature. And he said there will be others like just like Reverend James Reeb who will have to give up their life go to the go to the total

sacrifice and suffering so that their children might have a better life. So Dr. King realized that that violence was going to get violence and hatred was going to beget hatred and only love could conquer over all of these. And love meant nonviolence and meant not striking back not to injure but striking back and in positive ways that could bring about change. And we have seen the results of his willingness to to to be nonviolent. One of the criticism that came in in the latter part of his of his career where people said that this was not the winning one that was supplanted nonviolence was in many people's minds black militancy which I don't necessarily agree with but that that was I think the common Well I guess yeah I guess you have to look at the proof or the proof of the pudding. Many of those who advocated advocated a violent reaction to America's injustice. They are no longer in positions to make any any

corporate difference. They are in a position to bring about any corporate health to the nation. But Dr. King's approach of nonviolence has laid some foundations that we are still working on today. So I would have to say we would have not we would not have won our coughs and employing methods that that in keeping with the highest revelation that God gives us. And Dr. King was saying that the highest revelation that God gives us comes from Jesus Christ who told us that our suffering can be redemptive to the cause and. And now I can travel in the Southland and feel comparatively good which I could have done in 1051. I can travel in the south and feel comparatively good go into almost any restaurant because Dr. King's approach was sound. He conquered over evil through love and nonviolence. But this this message is somewhat lost on many people in that world. What I don't hear often enough is how much

all of us that black white yellow and brown can benefit from from these teachings. What's not made a strong enough point of is that white people benefit from from from his greatness. Brown people yellow people that that is it's not restricted just to black people he was not on this earth just to help us. That message seems to be lost and so many people and I think it's unfortunate unfortunate shouted from the sometimes sometimes is lost because those who are saying it do not want to recognize the proportions of the man. But what Dr. King did and I think he stated this that in the in the giving black people their rights in America this would free the mind of many whites in America from the prison of hatred and racism. These things that do not please God. You find a large percentage of of white people

who go to church establishment people who go to church be they be they are be they Roman Catholic be they can be they Jewish be they Protestant be they have Protestant Fundamentalist proud of Protestant evangelicals whatever they are many of them go to church and they and they claim they want to do God's will and be acceptable in God's sight well. Well God's God's word teaches that if you hate your brother you are not pleasing God. And so and helping them to learn to love and respect their brother he's helping all people to have a better relationship with God the Creator. And that's moving us in a position where we're where God can then be more pleased with our nation and with the leaders of our nation. Let's get scripture. He's helping he's helping them to see how they should behave so they could please not black people. But please God in the highest ideals of the nation. We have a call from Michelle from Roxboro unit. We'll get back to talking about the the bigger church and the global view of Dr. King.

We'll take a call from Michelle from Rock spirit. Michelle you're on WM BFM OK question to me. Yes go right ahead please. HOW TO THE BANK. Oh you know I just want to thank you. I don't think what you think is going to justify what do you think would you suggest that it's made it a shrine to Dr. kicks to the front of the car. Which I think we should. Well there's so many things that we can do and should do one of the first things in a very practical thing I think that that all people can do at this time is is make a financial contribution to Coretta Scott King and and they mine Luther King Center for Social Change in Atlanta Georgia. That's one thing that we can do by helping them to implement the programs that wish to emanate out of Atlanta Georgia. That's one practical way another practical way is by raising the quality of life in the communities in which we live by being involved in the political process by putting people into office who care about people by holding them accountable by developing neighborhood groups that say

we care about our neighborhood and making our neighborhoods better places in which in which to lift them up. I don't want it. Well I think the junior junior high school students certainly can implement highest of Dr. King's ideals in most of our schools in Boston now. We have been trying to integrate them and I think that we can junior high school students or middle school students or elementary school students can learn to appreciate other young people who are different than they are whether it might be like young people learning to appreciate and accept Hispanic young people a lot of brown young people a Spanish speaking young people. We have no Asian populations we have Haitian immigrants coming into our community and those who have been here a long while can help to integrate

them into the life of the school have to make them feel accepted and then I think another thing that our junior high school students could do. To do good in this study it's very important Dr. King speaks about this. He was the perfect example of a of a student who had fun but yet was serious about his home lessons and serious about his study. Many of our young people here in the city of Boston the so-called cradle of liberty are not serious about this study neither are their parents taking the time to encourage them in their elementary and low grades to become students. The reading matter that they have in their homes. What kinds of things are our kids reading what are they listening to. Is life going to be our one bit of entertainment or is life going to be training and developing our minds for future so we can become meaningful and productive citizens. So I think I junior high school boys and girls can learn to appreciate young people of all backgrounds and show respect and love for them. They can do well in their studies and they can also develop a little bit of industry. Nothing's wrong with that not days they can learn to work and earn it is only by selling newspapers. I mean for the children

our community is selling the Boston Globe. Other have other Baystate banna. OK thank you very much for the call. Irvin Haynes is we talk about the church and I think we're talking about the larger church and our larger church community. Dr. King was was quoted as saying any religion that professes to be concerned with the souls of men and is not concerned with the economic conditions that strangle them in the social conditions that cripple them is spiritually moribund spiriting moribund religion in need of new blood. What was he talking about. Well I'm surprised that you would pose that kind of a question to me in the first one that's pose that kind of a question to me. And you sort of stepping on my toes because Dr. King there it is speaking about any religion and I think part of it is but his concern was was Christianity in America. Yes. Was the church was the Christian

Church in America and and we all recognize that for a long time some of the people that believe the Bible the most some the most fundamentalist people and in the United States of America manifested the most hatred. The deepest degree of racism against black people in kid not how they fear can you give us an example and I won't. No it's not really necessary called the nominations I happen. I happen to I happen to come out of us and I happen to come out of a lot of a compound of the right wing right wing religious background in fact. The first question that Dr. King asked me the very first time I met him he asked me about the seminary I was going to Why was I in such a conservative seminary that didn't seem to be very interested and social welfare wasn't very interested in minorities was even particularly interested in black people have no black people on his faculty and he was concerned about that kind of thing. And another one of his speeches he said that the church is supposed to have like Jesus said with the light of the world but with your lights we were coming in at the end we're not making any difference. So I think what he was really saying is sort of the same thing that

Jesus said If you love me. Keep My commandments. And the passage of Scripture that says why I call you me Lord Lord and do not what I say. And then the further biblical mandate that says that not everyone that said Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. But he didn't do it the will of my father and my. And the Father in Heaven has said unto us that we are to care about the people around us. Jesus spoke about those in prison. He spoke about those who were widowed often. He spoke about those who were hungry those that were naked. And all these kinds of things Dr. King spoke about. And we have to implement this love as it is as Christians and as Bible believing Christians in a real sort of way. A lot of the Bible believing Christians in America have been the last people in this era to become actively concerned about people who are being oppressed in most instances being oppressed by people who go to church on Sunday on Sunday on Saturday. And I think Dr. King was trying to bring up the hypocritical nature of that sort of

thing to be filled with the Holy Spirit and be oppressing people is an inconsistency with that which the Scripture really teaches. OK we're going to take a break right now. This is WM BFM Boston ninety one point nine. Our telephone line is 9 2 9 7 9 2 9 9 2 9 7 9 2 9 6 Haywood Blackledge. Your host our guest this evening is Dr. Mike this is Reverend Michael Haynes from the twelfth Baptist Church in Roxbury will be back in a couple minutes. If you are a resident of Roxbury North Dorchester and have a child who is between two point nine and five years of age and meet income guidelines you can enroll him or her in Head Start a program of A B C D. It's a comp program that addresses the social emotional and educational needs of children. It also facilitates employment and educational opportunities for parents for further information please call Tesfaye at 2 8 8 9 1 0 5 0 4 Rebecca at 4 2 7 6 8 4

3. This has been a public service at W FM. When I was choosing a career my job as a reporter at my local newspaper wasn't an option. And those doors were closed to blacks. Things have changed but not enough. There are still too few racial minorities pursuing journalism careers are being given a chance to. This is Karl Rove. If you have talent as a writer cartoonist graphic artist or photographer maybe you belong in this important industry for information on how you can pursue a career in the news business. Call this toll free number 1 800 2 5 5 6 0 6 0 0. You have your name and address and information will be sent for you from the Society of Professional journalism. Pursue a career in the news business because journalism needs minorities and minorities need journalism. That number again 1 800 2 5 5 6 0 6 0 0 ask for operator

1 2 8. As we begin our new year don't forget to use your w in the F and member card for benefits from area organizations and businesses like Swanson auto service full parts and services at 51 Lansdowne Street in Cambridge where you can use your member card for a 15 percent discount on parts and labor. If you'd like more information about the WEF and member benefits program call John happy workday at 9 2 9 7 9 1 9. Welcome back to our special on. Dr. Martin Luther King. My name is Haywood Blackledge. Your host Our guest is Reverend Michael Haynes from the trough at this church in Roxbury. You're listening to WM B. Fm Boston ninety one point nine on your FM dial nine to 9 7 9 2 9 is our telephone line. Please call in if you have any questions for revenue. That's 9 2 9 7 9 2 9. One of the most important and

short statements that Dr. King has ever made that I've heard speaks to the issue of individual responsibility. Certainly a theological point a social logical point as Sturrock point. He says a man who won't die for something is not fit to live for a few words very much meaning. Where do you think we should take our individual responsibility from this point on. Based on our discussion of Dr. King and based on his life and based on that and the precepts that he stood most for you know hundred vertical and horizontal little plays that are almost too innumerable to even be counted there is so much that so many people can do little by little very very significant things. A reporter from one of the newspapers south of Boston called and said he'd done a survey and he found out that most of the towns and cities in Boston were not having any Martin Luther King

commemorations either by the government either by government officials or by church and religious officials. And he was he was really disturbed that I found that there was nothing happening. Appear in great Massachusetts but I'm going to believe once once non black people begin to realize that what Martin Luther King did and what his goals were were not just for black people alone. He realized as other nations will realize that if you rip we oppress a whole segment of God's people that ultimately evil will come to that nation. That's that's biblical. That's biblical. And he realized that. So in helping America to correct this cancer of racism he helped America to regain its whole health issues like a human body. It's like having cancer and one small organ and and the doctors of the surgeons or the radiation trying to

get to it quickly enough so it doesn't spread to other parts of the body. And if it spreads to other parts of the body it will destroy the whole body. And this is what this is the course that America was on it was on a destruction course where it will fall apart completely morally and everybody in the nation would suffer. So it had to it needed to address the model issue of racism and oppression of black people. And in so doing it raised the health of the entire nation. Now once people of America not black people and other people begin to realize that what he did was for the health of all of America. And they begin to review and I sort of feel that this holiday has been a period of reorientation for the United States of America would mean for me and very reassuring about a lot of blacks who have forgotten what Martin Luther King was all about. They've benefited by what he did they're able to get on the bus and like Rosa Parks they don't have to be forced to the back of the bus. They can sit in the front of the bus. In fact they can drive the bus and they can drive the bus across state lines across on the federal highways and they can drive the bus across all the lines

of the city of Boston. Blacks can drive buses now and there was a day when let alone drive them. We could even ride in the front of them train and it's because of the sacrifice and efforts of Dr. King and those who who shared with him in this whole enterprise of the movement for justice and peace and equality that we were able to have these opportunities now a lot of blacks have better jobs now and they forgot they only care about themself in their own household. They need to be part of those institutions that work for uplift in the community whether it be the NAACP they need to join it and make it work better. They need to join the Urban League and make it work better make it accountable. They need to vote for vote for us for the most qualified leaders of our community. We goddess of the race color and background red yellow black brown white Hispanic whatever. And make them accountable so that we can make the communities that we live in better places and better places in which to live. I do say that a lot of school teachers who haven't done very much in their classes about reviewing Dr. King and teaching about Dr. King by next year they're going to be better already.

And same for preachers same for churches same for Sunday Schools same for youth fellowships you know maybe by next year a lot of youth fellowship will be ready to do something maybe by next year youth groups and youth groups and try and black Baptist churches and Protestant churches will be meeting with youth groups and and in Roman Catholic churches and in Jewish synagogues and in Muslim temples getting together to find out what we can do in the here and the now to live together better. There's a common bond doctor Dr. King spoke about over and over over over and over again. He said it really boils down to this that all life is interrelated. We are all caught in an inescapable network of mutuality tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly. Drugs for instance. There was a time when when heroin and marijuana was floating around a certain community certain neighborhood in the black community. But then we allowed it to spread and it spread into suburbia. It's nothing strange whether you be on Lenox Avenue and a hundred in 16th Street onto the 14th or

15th streets up there and you'll see you'll see you'll see non blacks coming into the black community to get something to destroy themselves. Same engro fall same in other communities. So we have to come we have to concern ourselves what with all these things that relate to our total life and I think Dr. King's holiday next year God willing will allow us to do a little bit better to review what he said and what he did in a more effective way. You're listening to WNBA FM Boston ninety one point nine. Our telephone line is 9 2 9 7 9 2 9. That's nine thousand nine 7 9 2 9 Our guest is Reverend Michael Haynes. Evan Haynes we've we've talked about what we can do from this point on. One thing we haven't touched on is is is the body of literature that Dr. King left us he left us six boxes I remember his last one being in 1968. Many two or three of his books were compilations of sermons

and thoughts. Some were outright narratives different kinds of of his singing. Do you think that the. The instance of his having a national holiday would bring a resurgence to that literature so more personally so become aware of. Certainly I believe the thinking is in the teachings of both in the black middle and on the non-black Well the things that he wrote. I recommend I recommend to everybody in Massachusetts I recommend to every Massachusetts politician and those who are running for the Congress of the United States from Massachusetts that they all read the address that he delivered at the Massachusetts legislature. It's a masterpiece and it should be read it should be read by every student of politics and every every stupid history. It's a beautiful it's a it's a it's a beautiful writing and then the book on the autobiography of Carette it is worth reading and Daddy King's autobiography is worth reading when you read Danny King's autobiography you then better understand how Martin went why he

went. You can understand Martin Luther King better when you understand what his father and his grandfather went through the feeling he felt very far from the tree or used. Oh no oh no. I understood his father better. I didn't understand his father Daddy King for Obama Daddy King and my predecessor Dr has the we're friends and I didn't really fully understand he seemed awfully autocratic you know very very stern. And I didn't really understand where it was coming from but when I read Daddy King's book I got a whole new perception into Daddy King all the way through Daddy King and into mine and I'm sure that I'm sure that my children his sons and daughters are going to benefit by the things that Daddy King has written and what he what would you think are some of the key precepts there that were there were controlling factors that you said you didn't understand them at first. Apparently he had a revelation going to suffering the suffering that Daddy King and Daddy King's father went through. This is offering that and they say that they went through and Daddy King transmitting and helping his son to understand what the suffering was really all about and then supporting him in his lifetime

through through changes in methods that sometimes that a king did not agree with because he understood what the goal was. And he sort of understood where his son was going and why his son was going that way with with a with a great pride. And I understand some tension and a lot of discussion and that feeling. Oh yes which was you know one of the interesting thing in that in King's book is that Daddy King and his wife decided they want to come to Boston one time they came to Boston stayed up in Roxbury on Hollis Street at the home of Dr. Hester and the reason for this mission is that they wanted to see very early the young lady that Dr. King had met in Boston. So those parents made all this morning from Atlanta they spent a few days or longer with an audit that Danny by himself might spend time talking with this young lady that their son had met and incidentally it was a secretary to Dr has a lady who still lives in in Boston that had brought them brought them together and Mary Palmer who had brought them together. You were talking about Massachusetts politics and and I

know that Edward Kennedy had some very clear words to say about the recognition of Dr. King. He says it's especially timely now when fundamental rights for which he for it. Are so at risk that we must redouble our efforts to preserve the right to equal job opportunity and affirmative action. The right to a decent education education and a fair paycheck the right to the Justice Department that is truly a Department of Justice. And I repeat truly partment of Justice into a Supreme Court that is truly committed to the equal protection of the laws. So it wasn't lost on on some Massachusetts politicians or at least the town was because of the care of the Kennedys. The Kennedy family early you know understood what Dr. King was all about and became very very supportive very very early. If we get if we could get all of the legislators in Massachusetts

and then I think that speaking about making making the dream making the dream lives you know Andy Young being a mayor of Atlanta Georgia certainly sort of brings out where we're supposed to be at this time. If government is going to be is going to be able to respond effectively to the needs of blacks and other minorities then blacks and other line noise must make themselves recognize forces for government and we should have a lot to do with who becomes mayor and who becomes congressman and Congresswoman. And we should we should bring all of our voting on realizing that Dr. King and others suffered so that blacks might be able to get the vote throughout the nation. We can't we can't afford to ignore the power of the ballot. Power of the vote speak I think that makes a big difference you know. And when those in the White House and those in the Congress and those in the state houses and those of the city halls recognizes a block of people out there that will vote them out of office if they become insensitive to their needs they will act accordingly. But if we don't vote and we don't vote in great

numbers and we don't know is blocks at times they will ignore us and write us off. They'll gerrymander the communities in which we live and make us make us politically impotent. We can't afford that logic because that is the next step to become involved in the political process from the top levels to get involved in community development and develop our own businesses and even strengthen the schools that we have that that meet our own particular cultural or racial leads. What we we can almost in on this now we're we're talking about the legacy of Dr. King we're talking about Edward Kennedy and how he was influenced and and certainly our own Reverend Jesse Jackson was part of King's entourage. Many times you've seen them march down the streets together. Andy Young was also a contemporary of Dr. King. I think what many of us in 1960 have failed to see is that this is what he brought to us this is the legacy and this is what we have to live with. I think I can end with these words I say them humbly but it

is true and I will thank. Robin Haynes for coming through WNBA tonight. In the words of Martin Luther King I do believe this is true. We've got some difficult days ahead he said. But it doesn't matter with me now because I've been to the mountaintop. Like anybody I would like to live a long life. One Jeopardy has its place but I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will and he allowed me to go up to the mountain and I've looked over and I've seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you but I want to get you to know that we as a people will get to the promised land but listen to this life a message is legit I am convinced that if the cruelties of slavery could not stop us the opposition that we now face will surely fail. You believe that we will be victorious as long as we did it God's way and that's the way of Truth and Love and nonviolence that we gain all of our rights in this nation.

Thank you very much for everyone's Goodnight from BFM Boston on the 1.9. Good evening your turn to from the source from the sources made possible in part through funding from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting in the University of Massachusetts at Boston. This is WNBA FM Boston. Stay tuned for the second half hour from the source. You're in the market.