Idaho Reports; Gary Hart and Carole King

The funding for this program is provided by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the friends of our 10 and 12 do not vote for Gary Hart just because Carole King says so. But just look at him take a good look at him. Look at his book in new democracies to check his position papers out his voting record and check out all the candidates. My message is to take this seriously enough to really put the time and energy to think about it and then vote your heart. Tonight one of Gary Hart's more famous supporters joins us for a conversation. Good evening Colorado Senator Gary Hart's presidential campaign faces another major test this weekend in Democratic caucuses in Texas. At stake a hundred and sixty nine delegates to the Democratic National Convention. The conventional wisdom has it that the Heart campaign is on the ropes desperately in need of a win to stop

former Vice President Walter Mondale from making the Democratic race a runaway. Some heart supporters are already saying that the Idaho caucuses later this month are probably not winnable despite Hart's generally favorable showing so far in the West. Nonetheless the Idaho Hart campaign received a significant boost this week from singer songwriter Carole King. Miss King who lives in Idaho has been touring the state's college campuses this week drumming up support for her candidate. We'll be talking about that and some other things in just a moment. Carole King talked to students and sang a little for them yesterday at Boise State University. Fighting for my rights and in so doing fighting for the rights of other people in our state has helped me to understand a lot of the problems that people all over the country are facing. Some of those problems have come directly to my doorstep but this is help me to

realize one very important thing. We have to stand up for our own rights because if we don't stand up for our own rights we can't depend on anyone else to do it for us. The point is if you have a goal you have to keep on trying. You have to go for it. And in the meantime one thing that I found very helpful is if you see and you visualize your success that is more likely to happen just the way you see it if you see the failure that's an obstacle. Actually visualize whatever it is you want to do you want to get into a particular graduate school just see yourself doing it. And also it helps to have. A plan B something that might work for you if you don't get your plan. Because that takes the desperation out of your efforts. I'm here to remind you that each and every one of you should be a turned person because that's how you will be a person. One of Colonel King's latest songs sums up the message.

Yes that really is the message that one voice can make a difference. You believe that even in this day a lot of people don't vote because obviously they think it doesn't make much difference especially important to get that message across to people. How have you found students receptive to that message.

Very receptive. I find many students come in to hear me speak possibly to sing and they're coming to see Carole King. They were interested in me because I'm a music personality. And when I give them the message that they do matter they do care and it's important to get involved because they go away and saying to themselves and to me you know maybe maybe I should do something maybe I should get involved. And that's I guess I'm a little surprised to hear you say that because so many have so much of what we read today about this generation of college students is that they're more concerned about a career and making money than they are about participating in the political process let alone making a change in the political system. I think that's basically true and one of the reasons I support Senator Hart's candidacy is because under the present leadership the present leader of our country is concerned about you know furthering his own interests and the interests of big corporate executives and things and people are picking up that energy Senator Hart has a

sense of integrity and a sense of commitment. And I'd like to see young people picking young people of all ages picking up that kind of energy. I don't want at least I believe you supported other candidates in the past in a fairly public way but not like you're supporting Gary Hart. Why such an effort for him. Because I thought that I agree with Senator Hart's stand and his ideas and his programs on just about every issue I really haven't found anything on which we differ. The primary thing I do kids excuse the pun the primary thing with which I agree is his integrity and his sense of honor and where I have agreed with other politicians on certain issues or maybe they've had a sense of integrity. I haven't felt so completely united with somebody in their values. Do you think realistically politically speaking that he has a chance at this point. As a matter of fact I do use the words conventional wisdom before

conventional wisdom is exactly what is the problem I think in the Democratic Party today. It is a party that is leaning towards the ideas of the past and that is again why Gary Hart appeals to me and so many other people. He is a candidate with ideas looking towards the future and he's already defied conventional wisdom with the early wins in New Hampshire and in many of the states in our country and he has a war on you know it's been said that he hasn't won any primary since March. He has won caucuses in conventions since March but they are not called primaries so that's sort of a little slant. But some of the media. How long have you known him. I met him in 1972 I did a concert to benefit Senator George McGovern along with James Taylor Barbra Streisand Quincy Jones and Gary Hart was of course his campaign manager and right you know and then I haven't really seen him until this recent involvement but I have watched his voting record as U.S. senator from Colorado. And I you know read when he's made a statement and

everything he says is based on common sense and integrity and I like his ideas. One of the things again that here's the conventional wisdom for a moment apparently he has scored some points in the last few days last couple of weeks by going after former Vice President Mondale on this issue of the political PAC money going into his campaign and the question about that being. The only ethical but perhaps even legal. But it's also said that Senator Hart would would be enjoying all of those endorsements that former Vice President Mondale now has if only he could have gotten them early on in the campaign. Not true Senator Hart has actually run as the first president a presidential candidate to refuse contributions from PACs and special interest groups. So he has let it be known that yes I would like to have been Grossman's but I don't want them paid for by big special interests. I want to have the people you know endorsing me because that's who I want to be

responsive to like special interests though like labor unions and the National Education Association is endorsed Wanda Mondale. Well I wouldn't very hard like to have those endorsements. I imagine he would not refuse them if they came but only if they came with no strings attached he's very very clear about that. Also may I say that when I was campaigning in Wyoming I saw. The National Education Association may have endorsed him but people within the National Education Association such as the superintendent of schools there woman Lynn Simons came out and said I'm not going to endorse this man just because the national organization tells me to. This is true in Wyoming. I think it's largely true in the West that people like to think for themselves and don't like to be told what to do or who to vote for. So I think that may work against Walter Mondale in Idaho and all through the West. And he really does have a chance despite being as far behind as he appears to be at this point in terms of.

Well look the raw number of delegates that the two of them have right it is reported it is widely reported that Walter Mondale has X-number and Gary Hart and Jesse Jackson of Y and Z. But the fact is that at the convention it's really all open. And that first ballot are the delegates that are supposed to be committed to a candidate can actually change their mind and voted different way if they want. Senator Hart has talked a good deal about new ideas and new approaches to American politics. What do you see in those new ideas. OK For example let's take defense the traditional Republican view is my defense the traditional Democratic view is less defense Kerry's view is better defense it's more efficient use of the funds that are already allocated for our defense rather than spending them on huge weapons and nuclear weapons like DMX missile he is totally against that for example he would see that money used more efficiently for say higher military pay for our

men and women who are actually out there weapons that work in the field. Just a more balanced picture and better use of the money. That's a new idea. He's he's been wrapped a little bit for these new ideas really not being all that new welfare certainly parts of them are new and parts of them are based on history and his experience he's been the you know on the Senate Armed Services Committee so you know of course he's drawing on old knowledge and certainly old values like honor and integrity but the ideas and the directions are new they are and I'm tried before but they are an alternative to the old ways neither of which worked a Republican in a democratic way neither have we have which have worked here our story has received a lot of press maybe some would argue I'm sure more than it's deserved on the so-called character issue is did he cheer why did he change his name. Some of those sorts of things unfair. Yes. First of all the they are they are not on the issues. It's the

politics of distraction Let's talk about these things that are of no importance and second of all there was no lack of integrity in the confusion about that. Lots of people change their names and the military records a lot of times will show man's age one thing in the birth certificate is another. No problem there. How closely. I'm just curious as to how you do these appearances are you coordinating this with the national campaign appearances for example you've made in Idaho this week. Yes I am I'm doing it through the state coordinator Steve was in Nampa. I have been in touch with the national campaign headquarters all along and in fact this is something I have asked where I would be needed where may I go but I took this particular project on myself since I do live in Idaho and my concern is to inform Idahoans and get them involved and certainly I'm saying you know be aware of Senator Hart but I specifically do say Don't vote for him just because Carole King says so vote for him because you feel that it's right.

After you've checked out all the candidates use your intelligence and don't just base it on something superficial so we can make take it we can expect to see you. We're. All on the campaign trail as they as they might say possible in the conventions possibly. Mostly this was really the last thing I had planned but that doesn't rule it out in the future no less. I hope to go through till November actually because I don't know. Are there some special particular responsibilities associated with. A famous person like yourself becoming involved in political campaigns. Most definitely one of which is just as I said the disclaimer I just expressed. I realize that there are people that if they like my music and respect me as a person might say yeah well Carole King like Simmo vote for him. I don't want that. I am urging them specifically to check him out for themselves. And that's a responsibility I take very seriously to put that disclaimer out. Are you well. Are we likely to see you in Idaho more active in other political campaigns other than a campaign on the national level.

You have probably already seen that. I'm trying to strike a balance. I do have a life that I came here to enjoy. You know I haven't done much work in my garden this spring for example and you know why I came here to sort of get away from national attention and involvement at the same time. I am concerned with making this world a better world and Idaho. The best possible place for Idahoans to enjoy and people from all over and become involved with the Wilderness issue for example. I felt that Senator McClure was not fairly presenting the picture to the Idaho people. And I expressed my views at two of his hearings one in Washington. I'm involved in the peace movement. In fact there will be an event on May 20th at Boise high auditorium. It's entitled by you know with that song One small. It's a two to one majority of Idahoans showed up at the hearings to testify in favor

of more wilderness. Senator McClure tended to ignore that word or distort it when he presented that. I heard some people say yes well many of us you know wrote I mean that was taken into consideration his mail is now running 10 to war and according to Senator McClure himself in favor of more wilderness. So I think he's misrepresented. Another thing is the issue of jobs. Senator McClure and again the Idaho delegation but primarily Senator McClure represents that wilderness will take away jobs. And on the other hand development will provide jobs. I live near Chalis where there's the cypress marring and that mine certainly has provided the community with some jobs there's no question about it. But the mine is is not on secure footing as to its future. The drain on the community resources and the taxes that these people who are now have the jobs are having to pay to make up for the presence of the marring is of great distress to many people in that community. We have logging the logging industry right the timber industry there is federally

subsidized logging and that's what we would have our taxes would go to pay for whatever few jobs would be provided by any development. And I think our wilderness is one of our greatest resources. It's what I moved here to enjoy. It's what the people that are born here go to enjoy when they go hunting and fishing. They like being near that. And I think it's important to preserve it because there's no undoing once it's developed. I think if Senator Wirth were here he would take exception to that to what you just said about the cost the cost associated with wilderness. Obviously there are there are a significant number of people in Idaho who believe that there are jobs at stake in this debate. There are jobs in the timber industry in the mining industry. There are also jobs connected with wilderness the tourist industry and that's a major industry in this state. Everybody knows that. Another thing is that there are certainly jobs available but what if what if let's let's be dreaming for a minute if we could preserve the 8 1/2 million acres remaining as wilderness. And

what if it were just totally ruled out that we would have development as in the logging in mining. There are other ways to approach problems and look for new solutions you know so if it's a foregone conclusion that those possibilities are gone surely we can come up with ideas for other jobs and then there's the outfitters and and guards there's you know they are definitely favoring a great deal more wilderness than the senator has recommended. Well let me make one final argument that people who see this more the way Senator McClure in the Idaho delegation might see it would make. Idaho already has over 3 million acres of protected officially forever as wilderness. That's fantastic and I'm very happy that that's the case but I would like to see more that is it's such a great resource and it's renewable as it is whereas the others are renewable. Why is it a great resource in your view. Because the human spirit forewarn is an important thing which is often neglected by leaders who cater to the business interests that pay their campaign expenses. People are under a

great deal of stress all over the country certainly in areas of Idaho and I realize that as I said you know jobs are important I'm not against jobs I just think that the jobs need to be based on things that are taking into consideration this the human spirit and the joy that people feel when they are in the wilderness. And so many of us do enjoy the wilderness. Not only me who I'm an import right I've been here seven years that's almost a native right. But many of the natives here you know are kind of up in arms for example again that Cyprus knowing that Thompson Crick was a prime hunting ground. And it's it's gone now the elk have you know kind of died off to some extent in that area or moved you know far back. In addition to your political involvement in various in various issues you've been on the front pages of a lot of newspapers in the state across the country for your difficulties with the Forest Service. Yes. Your ranch. Yes. Tell me the status of that situation.

OK first of all the it has been represented as a dispute over the status of that road. There is no dispute. Legally you know this is a road that cuts across your property. Right it's a duplicate road there is State Highway 75 and then there is a public road as they called the old county road when the highway was built in 1939 Custer County formally abandoned that other road and that abandonment gave the portions of the road outside the ranch to the Forest Service and the Portion within the ranch to the ranch owners. That is still illegal status of the road to this day. Now the Forest Service Forest Service personnel among other things urged Custer County to declare the entire road public. Under an Idaho state code that statute has since been declared unconstitutional by a state judge I sued Custer County when they declared my property public

unilaterally with no due process no hearing no constitutional rights. That was the lawsuit we did not seek to have the status of the road changed or declared. We don't need to have the documents including documents and or service in county files say that the portion within my property is my property. So that's the legal status. There is an investigation now being undertaken by the inspector general of the Department of Agriculture for service misconduct including harassment with permits threats lies to about 2 US and about us and to you know to the public that I'm blocking public access. I am not. I would never do that. I am however controlling who comes onto my ranch and that's a fundamental right of all Idaho property owners to control who comes onto their property. Sure the issue has been wrongly cast. Yes it has. As one of you basically saying I'll be darned if you're going to open that gate come across my path of life.

Basically it's been wrongly cast that I've been blocking public access and I am not. Does this cause you a lot of grief. Yes it has. I've had people come onto my property sometimes arm owners for example and there we have every right to be here. Forest Service told us it's a public road or Custer County says this is a public road and you know that's not true. So there was nobody at this point about the legal status of that situation. There is no debate in any legal arena. The only debate is just them saying well it's in court because we're going to bring it to court any day now not in court it's been a year and a half since Judge Kalish threw rule that I could control who comes onto my property and told the defendants that if they question that to bring it to state court we are still waiting for that action. Do you find a lot of people say there's Carol Kane she's just flew into the state she's bought this ranch up there now she wants to control the access to a whole lot of public that that's been really hard to deal with because I'm an

outsider in terms of not being a native. But this is my only home Robinson Barr ranch is my only home anywhere and it has been kind of hard for people in my community are getting to know me and I'm not out there all the time you know dealing with the community I work in California sometimes and the little they know about me though they know that I am a person of integrity and that I did not do what it's been alleged that I've done. How much time do you actually spend up there. Most of the time I go down to California maybe once a month and when I have a major project such as an album I might be down there for an entire month of the year but most of the time I do spend even in the winters which we are the first owners to ever spend the entire winter there. Does that in some way hurt your career I would think that it would be easier to pursue your type of work if you were close to where that work is done insofar as the work goes and the

proximity but when I'm not working is there there's smog and there's crowds and there's a lot of things that I prefer to live in Idaho just not. And. I've come to really love the people of this state. With some exceptions of course but. If it if it does cost me anything in my work and it may have it's OK because I need that balance. Are you concerned at all that your political involvement could hurt your work. I've heard tell that it might but it doesn't concern me because again I'm a person and I am an honest person and I have certain beliefs. I don't ask people to embrace them because they are my beliefs but I do want to be heard from and I encourage others to be heard from and if somebody doesn't like me because of it what can I say. I'm sure there are people who won't go to a Jane Fonda movie because they absolutely detest Jane Fonda's politics. That's right that they will go to a Carole King concert because they detest Carole King politics.

I'm not worried about it if it happens I guess it's probably both of our last but I can't help it. I think I've got to ask you a couple of showbiz type questions. I think frankly there's an impression around that a lot of singers lead a pretty strange life frankly compared to the rest of us. Does that debunk some myths about. Well I don't know if that's a myth I think many singers dream leader very strange like Certainly my life is unusual in that I don't have a 9 to 5 type of job. I have more freedom in my work but I also have more responsibility. I have actually tried to keep as close to a normal life even when I was living in California I was very involved with my family and really tried to keep that balance but I've seen a lot of casualties. I've seen people who are on the road all the time. My contemporaries who said the only thing that really means anything to me is this two and a half hours on stage and the rest of my life is hell. And I sure don't want to live that way. It's hard.

It is more the rule of the exception. I think so. It's unfortunate but it's it's true. Is it hard to maintain the balance I mean do you have to constantly work at it. Yes. Do not get caught up and in the other part of the life. Yes because when a performer is successful they become to many people a piece of meat and the Sharks start attacking a lot take a piece of your arm and if you see your leg and you really have to fight to stand up for what you need for your existence and a lot of artists are maybe not grounded they are sensitive to the point where all they think about is their work and they're up on some other level and if they don't if they're lucky they have a good manager who helps them do that if they are lucky they have a manager who was actually one of the sharks. And I've been again very fortunate in that I really do have a sense of where my feet belong it's right on the ground but I'm not a little of my head in the clouds just as your political involvement helps you sleep with you. Most definitely but again to a point there is has to be a balance. I am involved in politics only in so far as it helps to make the world a better place and get other people

involved and caring about taking control of their lives. At the same time I don't want to be doing this all the time. I need to be you know by myself with my husband on the ranch working there milking goats growing the garden and we're doing some nice work there too or restoring the old buildings and restoring the pastures back to where there are greys a bull again and I need to do that too. How about drugs. I don't do drugs. I never have done drugs. I have encouraged people not to do drugs and I think I can understand why so many of my contemporaries do them. Why. Because drugs are available particularly cocaine it's all over the place it's even all over the place and you know remote areas of the country. People just assume that you obviously have a drug involvement just because you're in the business. Is that just an automatic assumption that people are not about me I think my life's work conducted my life has been and my music you know has expressed clearly to

people that are involved with drugs and that I don't condone it. I don't have that problem. We have most gracious to talk with us tonight. We appreciate the opportunity and we're going to get a little bit more of what you had for the students here yesterday. Thank you very much. All right my pleasure. The funding for this program is provided by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the friends of 10 and 12.