1; The Founding Fathers of Green Bay; Oral history of Green Bay, Wisconsin

This is hard stuff. The Green Bay Packers go you Packers. Go. When I am traveling and I tell where I am from often I say Green Bay instead of decay because people have heard of Green Bay. They have heard of Green Bay because they have heard of the Green Bay Packers. Now I'm very proud of our team. But. I don't like to have Green Day known nationally or even closer to home for just one thing because Green Bay can be so proud of it. His star background. The founding fathers of Green Bay Wisconsin is the first in a series of programs about the history of the Green Bay Area which will in future programs include the bay settlement northeast of Green Bay. The towns of Bellevue Alloway I've been on and the pier which are south and west of

Green Bay these programs will explore the ethnicity and social economic aspects of each community. It was 14 years after the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock that recorded history began the first white man in history where he landed at banks a little north of Green Bay. Had been sent. From himself who wanted to discover.

A route. To Cathay. To China is so that and beautiful Chinese robe and he walk his plumed French. He musta been quite a picture. And he put a pistol into each hand to impress the natives grouped on the show that weighs in 16 34. And in 1934 therefore we were able to celebrate our Turkson tannery the man taking the part of John Nicolay a period in his Chinese role with his plumed hadn't shot off as pistols when they were out in the bay and waiting for just the proper timing to come to shore. He was with real Indians and he was in a real birch bark canoe and I think there were three canoes together. And the way his canoe began to leak and water began early to come in a

fairly good rate and the Indians not on the sill and late picked up a couple a little cans and try to get a little water and they had a little arrangement where they could heat pitch and they mended the canoe right there and made it the shore beautifully. It were exactly identical in land use. You know no one knows I think. The traditional side of Red banks is marked here on the bay with the monument but historical documentation has no basis really no basis for that and it's a matter of considerable speculation anywhere from from there on down into an international area. Where. The landing was made and the records of Nicolo days. Was a star not first hand. There are very brief. Second hand accounts. And they chose what relations. And they were written some years after he had made

his visit to the words there were very few. And sometimes ambiguous. There's a lot of folklore that's developed about his visits and being dressed in a mandarin robe and shooting office pistols. And supposedly thinking he was in cafe or something like that. But he knew very well where he was. I thought there was any doubt about the purpose of his visit was a commercial for. Him to make peace between tribes enough. And that disrupted trade with new friends. You know what would have happened was the Winnebago had been very friendly with respect to receiving the Ottawa traitors. That's really pronounced. They hadn't been very receptive about receiving the $0 traders bucket even though. And this disturbed business. And suddenly came out to. Make the peace and was more than more than the else was probably better than an old Trade Center and the geographic position is such that it gives access to the upper lakes and through the vox Fox Valley Wisconsin waterway

to the Mississippi. And then down the lake shore to the Chicago area St. Joseph. From there into the Kankakee River on the Illinois River. And in a corner across the lakes to the for those French for the river connection the new friends. So it's this was a strategic place with respect to trade and undoubtedly over the centuries. Quite a variety of people individuals or small groups of people from various tribes who did of the area. The date is not certain but I think the most reasonable. Accurate thing next. Visiting the Great Green Bay Area was that good. It's probably in 69 58. Percent theirs and Russ and. The two brothers in law. And they were certainly in this area and the Radisson and gross so there was a rush mother had already set up a working relationship with a lot of. Coming out of one of them

to take their funders their firearms. And deal with these for the want of me who were causing the other was in trouble. On the other hand hung groceries didn't want to do the Radisson didn't want to go out they want to make peace because they were in the trade. And so they got involved in discussions with the Pottawatomie and made a relative peace between the two tribes. The problem was that the Pottawatomie were attempting to intrude themselves in the fur trade but they wanted to be middleman they want to deal with the French. And pick up European trade goods. And carry them to the interior tribes and exchange them for furs and traded for its back to the French and collect the profit. Both ways Rob they in fact did this very successfully. And at that time by the 60s 50s the Pottawatomie. Were the largest tribe numerically in this area.

David nominee we're a really small group in this in the area. They were also allied with the French pretty much. They could be counted on by the French. And they stayed in their lines with the French until 761 when the French went out of power and the British took over to France or Canada. At that time they shifted their allies to the US to the British. Very quickly probably reluctant to shift to the British. And because of the strength of the French Association and by 1763. When the colonies are becoming very powerful. Britain is trying to move in on France's. Departure and take over the area they were interested in for this new powers new forces are operating in the great likes her. And the one I already did an alliance with the British and they retain that

alliance. And they support the British in the Revolutionary War and also support them in the War of 1812. This debate has been under people thank you for having you know the French government. Has so much to be proprietor of our lines and the facts are prevailing claimed it for the King of France and the early French settlers were squatters they preferred Labor proverbially careless about the title to the ones they occupied and the only evidence of ownership was actual possession. Actual and exclusive to continue a possession and then there was question about them having their claims after

the United States took over and eventually they got some money and interests of it. No Cranford surveyed I think in 1828 There are also private claims that Barry does Shien to and those are the only ones in the state of Qana here and very dishing. This is a copy of the deed recorded in Brown County and eight hundred twenty eight. This in. 1793 were present with the scene and I would get Michael back no more. Who have of their own free will yield and ceded to Monsignor down and. The man from the summit of the party just comical and. To the end of the meadow. Beat it away with a depth of forty rpms. And upon the other the other side facing the said party age attacked for Athens wide and thirty deep the foresaid Bandar's I contented

satisfied with two barrels of rum. To test through which they had been scribe their marks they were being blind. Their witnesses had made his mark for he. Apparently didn't go to understand every claim the right that they to head in the partridge. And likewise so their claims and guarantee from a disturbance they have accepted for their share I have gallons of rum content and satisfied and testimony to which they have carried it on to inscribe their marks. The eagle and the beaver know there is a huge round of the monetary exchange rate that the Indians did yet. These people gain from Canada and the land was settled that way in Canada. Narrow steps straight back from the river. There's much they could take as much land as they felt they could work so my hand went over across the river some going as far as devil river. Or Easter and it's the same thing. And I needed protection from the Indians so they

built their cabins close together that's why they was laid on these narrow strips. Of land some are wider and some are narrower. And they have had to have access to the water because that was their highway and they fished a great deal. And always ran all the way from private time on is down about where the Belmont is I think. And they ran up 236 on the east side of the river and it's up beyond her present high schoolish and on the west side I think they went up to twenty nine by the Kentucky nine private and one West is right there. John I have no I mean business territory now. My mother was a brunette. Miss Burnett family preps is one of the oldest families

originally settled in Green Bay. And the other day I ran into a very interesting. Man. They're showing their friends claims after this became part of the United States. And so old man is all measured in our pens which is a French measurement. Sixty two not thirty yards a thing for our pen. And. On the west side the west bank of the river is named the show on Dominic Burnett. As owning perhaps what today would be six hundred acres of land. We find that Dominic Burnett left a place go in my sky in Canada. He and three or four others by canoe. A riot in Green Bay about seventy nine hundred ninety six after being wrecked at death's door. On the entrance to Green Bay he was what you might call a quarry to bow out and play 0 0 0 it was to accompany the

various expeditions. To do the paddling of the skiffs. A good many of these corps de Blasio became fur traders and they were trappers they let the Indians do the trapping. And they acted as the intermediary between the Indians and selling the first the government. He married a woman by the name Adama tell green yellow which is a very familiar old name in Green Bay the green it was for instance where we're sitting right now. The green you file for all of these dumbed down areas on the ridge all the way to what is called The Spirit Day but in those days it was called Devil river. There is much intermarriage back in those early days of the early French settlers on both sides of my family but was on my mother's side in the brunettes and. As well as on my father's side and I'm related to the green yours.

Several years ago when I was on vacation and at that time my finances were such that I couldn't afford to take my three sons and vacation. So I convinced them that it would be a great great adventure if we would learn about Green Bay first of all. So we started out going to the various historical sites and we started out at tank cutting each and when we got into the last bedroom and there was a certificate of marriage up on the wall and the lady said it wasn't the tache family it was but it was the first recorded marriage in what was Fort Howard at that time and it was Dominic and Burnett. My sister happened to be with me and she said well these are the relatives I can remember our grandfather telling about this that the first recorded marriage was in our family the first recorded birth was our great grandfather. And so my boys got very excited about this thinking that we were really a

part of history and made the whole thing come alive for them. This lasted probably about 15 minutes and then one of my sons said the same. Wait a minute. You know we're adapted so that they're not really related to us that he's my pessimist. And the second one who is the optimist thought for a minute and he said yes but it's better than nothing you know. And this dummy tell brinjal. Was the daughter of. Pierre GREENE You know a senior. And Louise dummied tell da Lang late again she incidentally was the daughter of Charles Don Wade So there's a direct connection there between. The brunettes and they done laid him. For the uninitiated this Charleston long legged. He was a young Frenchman parent may. Excelled all of is companions so far as the knowledge. Of the

Indians plus the fact that he became quite a soldier. And fought in the French and Indian War. Madras the war between the French and the British prior to the Revolutionary War. In fact he was I had seen commanding. A tribe of Otto Indians at Braddock's defeat. Or George Washington. As a member of Braddock's staff. United States won the revolutionary war and defeated England. Many of the French people filed claims in Detroit Michigan. Were jurors more closely governmentally United for this entire territory Brown County was established in October of 18 18.

The executive order of Governor Lewis Cass of Michigan territory. Was one of the three original counties west of Lake Michigan. The original boundaries of the county extended from an upper Michigan in the north to the Illinois state line in the south. And from a line drawn through the partition between the fox and Wisconsin rivers in the West. Lake Michigan is eastern boundary. So the original boundaries include an entire eastern half of the present state of Wisconsin. The boundaries are quite extensive. There's very limited population and 1820 there was slightly over 900 people in the entire county including military personnel. There was about 250 civilians and about 500 soldiers and some military dependents. The bulk of the population is concentrated in an area along the Fox River. Between present day city of Green Bay and pier. Composed mostly of. French Canadian fur traders. Few American arrivals. The rest of us in the county was pretty much wilderness.

This particular map was filed by Judge Doherty and I think the big team 20 30 was the first judge of a court of record appointed west of Lake Michigan a special judicial district for the area west of Lake Michigan was established by Congress in 1823. Judge Doherty was a young to try to turn he was one of the main instigators in the establishment of the cart and he managed to get the appointment as the first judge. He settled in shantytown and decided over a court that conducted annual sessions at Mackinaw Island Green Bay and Perry to Sheen. Generally had to travel by canoe or horseback on his circuit. He also got involved in quite a bit of land speculation over the years. He bought up a lot of Chinese properties and one of his duties was to try to confirm the old French land claims. It turned out later that he also secured interest in some of these claims and take quite a bit of real estate through his activities in fact there was quite a bit of criticism. One of the reasons he was later removed from the bench he was tied in with the

Astor fur trading interests. And Percy quite a lot of land for his own use. And other things back. After Wisconsin territory was established in 1837 he acquired quite a choice block of land in what is now the city of Madison. And by offering lots to the various territorial legislators he managed to convince and select Madison as a capital. In effect bribing the legislators. A man who is very influential. In the early history of Green Bay was a member of any Whitney. In fact to the point were. It's oftentimes said that. Whitney was on the phone to Green Bay and Daniel Whitney. Was the business of the star for trading Whitney later picked up a big track of land in what is now downtown Green Bay. An 18 29 laid out the plan of never Reno. When Daniel Whitney started plotting nothing we know where he did. People

ridiculed him because the land was very marshy. And Main Street was built along a sand ridge in this marsh and the early buildings along Washington Street were actually built on piles because the river would you know would flow under it in the spring and with the floods so that the area at the end of Main Washington Street really was kind of just a swamp when Daniel Whitney plotted out Green Bay to begin with. It appears from several things that I found that he intended main street to be the main street of the town and if you look at Green Bay today you know that's not the case Washington Street which runs along the Fox River is the main street of the town. Even back then a lot of the principal businesses major higher quality businesses were located along Washington Street pretty much from the beginning main street was a high class residential area. Daniel

Whitney had his house there. Mr. Baird of the Baird law office. But shipping and trading was a very important part of the city's life. And the older sailing ships were able to sail down the fox and were able also to sail up the East River which runs near Main Street for a while. As ships got larger the Fox River being a much larger river was able to handle the larger ships where where Main Street and East River was not able to handle them. Because of its strategic position. Wisconsin history and even the history of the great Mississippi Valley States has been made in this old city at the mouth of the Fox River. Known as the bay they are in the 17th and 18th centuries. Nava Reno and Astor in the 19th century.

And Green Bay in the twenty. People and customs of four generations left their imprint upon this historic spot. Will never you know I was a separate. Village and then James Doty representing the Astor interests for trading interests acquired a good deal of land just south of never a know the south city limits of Green Bay and he laid out a village there were two areas were in competition and were quite small. I think that the Esther is this is after the Revolutionary War acquired. A good part of many of these are fringe claims. John Jacob Astor to get a lot of money for his land he built the most

plush hotel this side of the Allegheny. It was a large white clabbered establishment with beautiful mahogany furniture from New York and this was to encourage people to come by boat mainly which they did in those days. The stop at the dock in front of the Astor House Hotel which was very close to the waterfront in downtown Green Bay and buy lots. And lots for them. He was so brilliant that he got by act of Congress all of the fur trade in the United States to himself. He never came to this area but. He sent Ramsey crooks. A shrewd Scotsman and then Robert Stewart helped and then. Ramzi crooks. And Robert Stewart were smart enough to get the help

of local influential people. And one of these was Judge James Doty. It's surprising here that so many of the people in early Green Bay history were oppressed group aliens but evidently they were Christ church parish was organized in 18 29. Their original wardens were Daniel Whitney and Albert Ellis. Also. James Doty judged guilty was one of the original vestryman as also was John Law. John P. Alexander Irwin Robert Irwin Jr. and read their seminal below when William Dickens and apparently there was some rivalry going on between the settlement around the Astor area shantytown nominee Bill so what is now Walnut Street and the new community which Daniel Whitney was organizing in every know which was

moved at Walnut Street in the area where Christ Church now stands there was a period when Daniel Whitney is not on the street and it looks as though they're going to build the church around Esther interest. And then suddenly there Daniel Whitney is back on the street and there's an interest in building a church. Well not exactly where Christchurch is located now in Cherry Madison streets but pretty close to it. So there's records that the Esther interests would donate a certain amount of land and I believe $200 towards building the church. Judge duty seemed to figure in that. Then all of a sudden that idea was scrapped and there was some announcement that then you Whitney would donate the land and build the church. About a year goes by and Mr. Whitney has not personally made good on his promises to build a church. So that idea's dropped and

there's a move back to the other side. And then finally in 1838 the present church site was donated. And. The building was built on land donated by Daniel Whitney And another interesting person and the present church is on the same site. Church toward doesn't have the story that I have heard is that the man who lived across the street we better remain nameless. Was happy to give the money for the fraction of the 60 foot church tower currently with the provision that would not have been. Cathedral has no reasons and over its bells of course courthouse chimes the hour. I am

with you or I am. We originally reported as couple missions simply for the line of the ports port Howard but Winnebago port Crawford Muser where the earliest churches were of course the people who are interested in the formation of the state were involved in the church's Judge Doty law. Morgan L. Martin a little bit later and putit author of the state constitution was a member of the parish so they would have these kinds of interests. Many of the old French settlers didn't really appreciate the American system of government they were used to conducting for a trading business with the Indians and people like John Collier and. The green ooze had amassed considerable wealth by the early French standards. But as they became in debt to the American fair trading companies they gradually gave mortgages and their lands and got further in debt and ultimately many of

the American settlers foreclosed against them for what they did was legal but they intend to take advantage of the ignorance of American business methods of something. Earlier French settlers. Morgan L. Martin. Who was a second attorney to arrive in the area. He built his home which is a ward which still stands the banks of the fax server and it was operated by the never public museum. Which overlooked the waterway and he spent a considerable amount of time and money in attempting to develop the facts Wisconsin waterway for a number of years. Problem that I think they ran into was that. Before the waterway was completed the railroads were coming in with something that effects the entire history of the state it was probably the first bit of meager political chicanery and corruption. That was cooked up in part by some citizens of this town. And that's called the Green Bay and Mississippi river canal company.

And it is a fascinating bit of history. Well briefly it was founded and I and this is brief because the history is so fantastic it was founded before we became a state. And one of the founding groups was to was Morgan L. Martin and James doing duty and these rascals put this cookie together and got themselves before they were part of the Northwest Territories. Got it in got themselves the rights to the floor the Fox River. They own the floor the river. And what they were to do for these rights granted to them was not by the legislature but but granted in the Organic Act which incorporated us into the union took us out of the Northwest Territories and put us into the Union. They were given these rights in the in exchange they were to build dams for and locks for navigational purposes. The concept being that we were to bring the coal of Kentucky up the Mississippi Wisconsin and barges up to the pier Green Bay Area and bring the iron from the Upper

Peninsula before the Massai was discovered down here in bigger boats and then have a kind of Pittsburgh operation. Through a series of financial failures Mr. reorganizations and the rest of it they continue to earn the right to the flow of the river and granted by an act of Congress which could not be amended according to a Supreme Court decision 1890s Unless was scant because it was incorporated in the organic Care Act unless the state of Wisconsin withdrew from the union they amended the Organic Act we would back in or there was any chance of that because we fought a civil war but that control lasted until a year ago. We call Hazelwood the birthplace of the state of Wisconsin because it was here in the spring

and summer of 1847 that the Constitution was drafted by Morgan L. Martin who is the chairman of the second constitutional convention and much of the work was done here at Hazelwood. The official signing of the convention itself did meet in Madison that John Martin was working on it here in the spring and summer of 1847. He had been here in 1827 as a young lawyer at the suggestion of his cousin James Twain Doty and his office was in shanty town which would be the area where the courthouse was built up river from here actually named Menominee built but nearly everyone always referred to it as Chante term and we have the portrait of Solomon Juneau who was Mr. Martin's business partner. Together they had own Downtown Eastside Milwaukee you know town as it was usually called and had done the planning but in 1843 Mr. Martin sold his share of Milwaukee to George Housman and to Mr. Juno. He stopped to think that at that

particular time the only settlements of any size in the Territory were in Green Bay and British. He was in the middle of the 1840s there were only a hundred seventy people in Milwaukee. We had Mr. Martin's briefcase from his terms in the Wisconsin legislature. He did serve in both houses. Later returned to the assembly and just before his death was serving as a judge in Brown County. He had been a delegate to Congress from the territory in 1845 introduced the bill which enabled Wisconsin to plan for statehood and the house was built in 1837. That was the year in which Mr. Martin married Elizabeth Smith of Plattsburgh New York whose family was quite prominent in New York history and military and cultural affairs. She actually was the niece of Dr. Bowman's wife. And that's how she first came to Green Day that she came to visit people mind and was there was introduced to mark Martin who she married four years later.

Considerable interest might be the mirror on the wall about the soul. This was Mr. Martin's wedding gift to his wife in eighteen thirty seven it has been re silver and the frame is wood with applied plaster and layer of guilt. It was given to Prince to Mr. Martin by John Penn Arndt who ran the old ferry boat at Fort Howard. The man who introduced the big Durham boats into the bay back at that time. The cradle on the floor with the little doll and it has Annie Martin's Christmas gift in 1850 it was made by John pan aren't I see similarity in the cradle around here. Oh no I think you're right about some of the pieces in the Dollhouse are quite extraordinary. Some of this wooden furniture is supposed to have been made by the soldiers of the court and given to the bowmen children and of course this delights of children coming through we have a top tea table that actually helps these go back to the era when

six women in hoop skirts with a rope and so if you're not using a piece of furniture you better pull it back against the wall. This is Leonard's room the eldest son Leonard was graduated early in eighteen sixty one. Sort of throughout the war as an officer apparently with some distinction. Rather interesting little sidelight to Leonard's career they had one of his classmates was George Armstrong Custer who finished at the bottom of the class. If. Green Bay star is a fur trading center back in there in the late set late 17th and their early 18th century and there was a kind of eclipse when the southern part of the state had the lead mining developments in America the United States took over control the course of settlement came from the East Coast of the United States intended to flow into the southern part of Wisconsin and by geography instead of

Lake Michigan being an asset it became a barrier to. Settlement. Also you had the mining in the southern part of the states and you just had a tendency for that area to open up faster to settlement. There's also the problem that questions of title to lands here because of the old French settlements and because of the need to obtain title to the lands from the Indians. So. During the 18 20s and 30s settlement here was restricted by geography and by the lack of available land and the fact that land title had that been cleared for American development. I found in the late 1840 throngs of German immigrants injured Wisconsin industrious real estate agents circulated pamphlets telling them that Wisconsin had the sliding climate best suited to their way of life. But that wasn't true because the winters were far cooler in northern Germany and the snow only lasts a day or two and the summers were much

hotter because in Germany one can't breeze in sweet corn summers aren't hot enough. There was a lot of sickness and hardships on the board but the stored journey up the Hudson River over the Great Lakes to either Sheboygan or Milwaukee. My mother came over. I cried harder What year are they saved for years to get it up Monday to go third class. They were caught in the Sargasso Sea. Could be months. It had nothing to eat and have a few swallows or water once a day and that little cracker and she did they crawl on their hands and knees. She said We go in the garbage can look for something to eat. And then finally the wind shifted and they were so sick and weak from no who would. They were quarantined in New York Harbor Kreider nominee weeks till they got their strength back so they can navigate and then they got as far as managed to

walk. And then Mike what would be my grandmother died and few had money to buy the prairie land west of Milwaukee so they settled for the forest lands around man a trois Queen Bee which was selling for around one 25 per acre than 20. Mansions. I wanted the families to own me. During a rainstorm they tried to get along in the woods they rolled up their bedding and sat on their bedding to prevent it from getting wet. The wives seated potato shit around the tree stumps where the song was broken up because they had no children land then and only cash money they could get was when they brought in split logs for the villages. And cities around. My great grandfather emigrated to America. And. Back in the part of New York on July 18 49 he be able to school

on the eastern edge of the settlement of Green Bay it bordered this forest and swamps in. The plot of land that he own and was at the corner of Quincy and long at St.. Along that street was damned near all Indian path. He joined in the box. And. East Rivers. He plied his trade as a Cooper Cooper is a barrel maker full of wooden barrels or cakes. There was a big market for barrels in those days because beer me Olsson last was pickles so our crop was stored in them. And the family had many interesting experiences with their neighbors the Indians. One incident to me by my father whose grandfather told him that the family buggered one spool of thread or hand woven basket of blackberries Indians picked the basket was three feet high and two feet wide

and the berries were winding and juicy. Why would you Randy you came over who can read about 1854 and I thought I was a year old he was a young at the Family Care Burton Bellevue which is a suburb of Bethel they were well and well are more like the the dirt there flatter guy than me. I like it for here too that they lived up there and hardscrabble I called it our grammar world and he was a shoemaker my trade and we're delivering some fuel to the mare across the river a little brown meringues and everything back in the body was found. Later and the brothers all came to Green Bay three of them. Organize.

Your image Brother Holcombe grocery you know you were in the business for morning 70 years and going on with just about every area you go to Door County you know mostly all leaping dance up that way the old canned food enjoy any record of your enemies don't practice all of that. Well half of the Black I was say. Clean and roll. Had to go in there. I worked with joy and as I was their cook as Mitchell joined the bought the best of things and they had nice partner churches a nice house and had a dance hall up on the third floor. They wanted a nice house they had a carpet in the hall. Never forget that it was red and the corners like this first place of course where ever that was sewed that would wear off. She'd

take great ink in cheap paint that so you couldn't see that it had a front stairs no back stairs and that's a big house when you have two stairs. You know that he built but that y the y m. Most of that was seen by the joy and ease and they were poor people he started out. They said he had overalls when his knees where I was he turned his pants around a worm the other way. You don't get another wear out of him. Both my grandmothers and grandfathers came. Prior to 1850 and my father's folks were tailors and my mother's folks were farmers. And they had known each other in Holland. Father's father opened a tailor shop and east Mason Street in the 500 block. And then my dad became a tailor and there is tutoring. They live here with no and it was just a room in their house.

There were business or the tailoring business was very very good. There we were at the ready made clothes then you know so it was that or hardly anything in this work clothes you know and my dad father was sort of a dude because he wore his wares. He used a cane not because you had to use a top hat and he had the formal top coat with a velvet collar and the striped pants and in a kind of way that's the way he went to church and Sunday. In the 89 hundreds I would say wood products was the principal industry of this pair the state of Wisconsin and especially Green Bay. They produce an millions of shingles and millions of board feet of lumber that are

shipped all over the country especially in the Midwest. When the ship came up the Fox River lines of course drawn wakens field with shingles. Were lined up waiting to be on the road it really was known as a single capital of the world about eight hundred fifty thousand sixty somewhere in there. A new sailboat. My grandfather used. To be a lot of the fishing was taking him down to the growing cities in the east Buffalo Cleveland Detroit Chicago Milwaukee and then brought back any type of produce that was needed. In his part of the country and the whole big company was one of these companies that. They sold everything from just salt the bricks the mortar to feed to. Wholesale supplies and this was the trade again back and forth. My grandfather was in the civil war. Susan Sherman's march to the sea after the Civil War. He and a group of his cronies went out and cut ties for the Pacific Railroad going away came out of it with

money. He got his money for the civil war is that he. Came up with that. So he decided to come to Green Bay. Then you decided to start his own company and he was quite young. Any. Way after that company the thing attracted him to bring there was bring there was a very important part at that time and this was before a railroad. And he was was supplying a lumber camp. And you're supplying them but were fine. Different things for different care horses and. You supply them with the food which they had which was salt pork but fish marrying game from there. Wisconsin didn't have apple orchard for that but I mean the imported Apple in New York. The imported salt from New York we have to look at and it was dairy so. This was 71 and it got shipped to ship one ship here

and Peterson export was a red suit for shingles. Which were all made up here in the peninsula. The a.m. Peterson was the. Considered the fastest boat in on the Great Lakes on the run between Buffalo and Green Bay it was owned by my great grandfather Lambert not. Captain Peterson had a small interest the it was a practice in those days for the ship owner to give the small interest 15 20 percent at the most in the ship operation. And Captain Peterson Peter Peterson was a captain in that ship. The boat was named after his daughter and he and Peterson the NE M brought in coal from the east to the Hurlbut dock and her company bought the boat from my grandfather. Well anyways it has Lambert started the store in Green Bay in the exact location where nonstory is now and it was a general store but it had the university feature a Reuben ship chandlery. Because at the same time me on his door he also had a fleet of sailboats.

One was the city of Green Bay the NE M. Peterson the Marine there you know by the way was in the Door County saga and down in the 1874 off of off of pilot Island. The Mary and all the friends as minor of the class know. All were sailboats with were built in the period from about 1860 to eighteen eighty and these boats brought all types of merchandise into this port. With them. You mentioned earlier post Civil War period between 1865 and Green Bay with quite a rowdy and rambunctious place I guess. Oh boy I was referring to specifically.

Well just about everything. Green Bay was a lumber town. Actually it was a lumber market for a while it was a railhead. This was the end of the line for shipping up into the north to supply lumber camps and you had lumber jacks pointed out here to get out of here during the year supposedly and want to hear all Shanna stories about the little stories about our town he mentions. How one time Horace Greeley came into the Belmont and had to walk a flight up stairs to the main to the lobby he was met by Naaman who from the looks of Horace Greeley he didn't assume was the kind of person that should be staying at the Belmont and he thought there's a better place down the street for you I will take care you. But now we get it this day it was yes I suppose the boat was built starting in about 1860 but because of the delay in the availability of materials during the war why. I don't think it was completed from the best we can find out until about 1864. It was built by

Israel who was a son of Dr. William Belmont William Beaumont was a contract surgeon attached to the army. He came from New Hampshire. And he was first stationed with the army at the one of the big fruit for forts which was Fort Mac a Mac. Then down at Fort Howard in Green Bay and following that down at Fort Crawford in Purdy Sheen. It is contribution to medical history was based on his findings through treating up French Canadian by the name of Alex Samar Tapp who was shot in a fight and in the stomach. But back an island in the stomach never healed entirely and Belmont left off had often available flap there where he could take out sampling so that the gastric juices and discovered the effect of enzymes on diet and his findings were the. Basis of today's knowledge of enzymes and

how they work. The stomach juices ISRO Belmont with his cousin the man by the name of Pelton owned a strip of land between. Over the river and what is now about Adam Street that time the river came to a close and almost where Washington Street is or are closer thanks had not been build up there'd been no piling no fill put in there and that was all Originally the town of nabû Reno as I say was a port town had ships in here all the time and so that then they had to have song Olson shingle nails and one thing around here so it was a really rowdy wide open town that was the kind of place it was with all these people going through there for the gamblers or that came that used to ride the ships and the trains they hung out around here going back and forth in the 70s in the early 80s. A number of these gamblers that played played their railroads in the ships where they were all personalities around town everybody knew who they were the papers were always full of their exploits. Can you give a couple of

examples of how I had that there was a fellow named talky Fuller he was one of the gamblers they had California slim and Mexican Joe and they'd come in here and the papers were always inveighing about the three card monte men that were living the life of gladness with their their fancy women and their fancy clothes in the big hotels and all that sort of thing around Green Bay and it was really quite a time and of course they had the usual appurtenances. Houses of prostitution were going pretty good. Were really local or they were located around town different places many of them on that and there are psychos Greenberger was a red light district. They're all over there was a red light district red Govan are usually on the north side across the river and. Over on the north side of Green Bay. And some up along the Fox River too because you know these sailors wanting to come from Syria they patronize these places where the prostitutes come from well I think people don't know they are almost some rubber on it from different places if they were local people there.

Nobody ever talked about it. I think one of them one of my favorite stories about show you what sort of a spirit of they had around Green Bay it was 1870s. I should say first that AC Neville. Was became one of the great pillars of the community in his time he was. A mayor and he was really one of the other metal public museums named after him and he was a real pillar of the community in his later years but in the younger days he was quite a swinger. He was a lawyer and. They had a system in those days whereby they had these houses were running of course everybody knew they were there. But they in order to keep them under some sort of control what they did they parroted the police had a roster and they would vote once a week they'd hit one of these places and water and haul all the girls down to the madam down to the. Police Court and they would find all the gals $5 for disorderly conduct and the madam would get $100 fine for that all plead

guilty at $100 fine for running a disorderly house and then they go back to work in the next week they had another. Well apparently sometime in the 70s around 876 or thereabouts one of their. Houses got knocked off out of order. For some reason or Madam decided that she was being persecuted because they were hidden or it was her turn. So when it came her turn to plead in this thing after the girls had all pleaded guilty she pleaded not guilty. And then they had to have a trial. Well nobody know how she's going to get out of it so the first thing she did was to hire a c now as her lawyer and he took the case. Well a trial came along and the first thing that AC did was to get up and move for dismissal of the charges on the grounds that the police had no right. To. Rewrap police harassment that they had no right to do this because under the grandfather clause of the state constitution she quoted that nothing in this constitution could be construed as. Destructive to or to destroy a long established business and he

allowed as how this business about as long as dad was designing. A lab through the DA the DA didn't know what to do so he called for an adjournment which they gave him and. Meanwhile all this is going on has been. Talked up in the papers and all the saloons are betting on who's going to win this thing you know that or that they the papers quoted the odds and everything else the odds swung in favor Neville after a while while this thing has been growing so the DA couldn't find any answer to this. It went down to Madison and he got together with this attorney general and they flyspeck the Constitution. And they came up with a picked out of some obscure clause lifted it out of context it had nothing to do with this but you could lift it out of context and the DA came back and he. Quoted This is the answer to Neville's argument. While of course the judge knew this was an out for him he happily bought this argument and then went ahead and tried to gab and she paid a hundred dollar fine and went back to work. That was the sort of thing is going on around here all the time.

The 70s it was rowdy It was a rowdy period. The strange part of it was that it was only when in certain groups the average gallon town ordinary person never molested. They didn't have any problems they had all the stuff going on around the outskirts. And soon they had I think something like in a town of 6 out of 7000 people and some like over 90 saloons in Green Bay. Not common for Howard. Well how do the more stable citizenry reacted this way. Well. One of the things that some of the more stable citizenry owned all is real estate at these houses and saloons are out and they were dragging a doggone good income to rent them at a very high rents. History is a curious thing. We

do learn from history. We learn from our mistakes as well as the good things that we do. I think that's the Bates you know. In all of history. We're talking about the state of its currency and the history of Wisconsin began in the Green Bay Area over 300 years ago. In this program we've explored those beginnings from 16 34 to the post-Civil War period. Succeeding programs will progress according to periods and events and we'll endeavor to show the effects of industrial change on the surrounding community. The founding fathers of Green Bay was produced at WHDH the University of Wisconsin radio center with partial support from the American Revolution Bicentennial Commission and the educational communications board with the cooperation of the Brown County Historical Society the Brown County Library and the University of Wisconsin Green Bay. The producer was James Meredith Fitch's technical operator Phil Corvo.

Your announcer cliff Roberts.