Evening Exchange; DC Politics, Malcolm X

Talk about DC's political history and the life of Malcolm X. Next an evening exchange. Good evening. I'm calling you Anandi welcome to evening Xchange local political history for native Washingtonians over the age of 30 is full of intriguing elements that a film maker would love for this city has gone from being governed by three commissioners to an appointed mirror to a delegate in Congress to an elected mayor. It's a history of political personalities who gave the city a distinct fleer from the indefatigable Julius HOBSON to the firebrand radical Marion Barry. Marion Barry once the head of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee went from grassroots organizer to seats on the D.C. school board and the City Council. Then of course to the mayor's office. Now back to the city council. Who knows what next in their new book The Dream City Race Power and

the decline of Washington D.C.. Tom Sherwood and Harry Jaffe take us back to the origins of the battle for Home Rule and the consequences of this hard fought freedom. But it's really mostly about Marion Barry. Welcome to both of you gentlemen. And why is it mostly about Marion Barry. Allow me to answer my own question is that because he has dominated the politics of Washington over a period of 12 years and in many ways still more than 12 years ago. You cannot write our book focuses it tells the whole story. We believe in book form for Washington that 30 years since the 60s when Marion Barry came to town and all the things that happened around him and to him and about him are the focus of this book. You could not write about Washington and do a fair job of Washington unless you focused on Marion Barry. That's what we did. Well conspiring minds want to know why. You know when Marion Barry came on evening exchange after he made the announcement that he would no longer run for office or not a rhetorical question to him had to be why are you using this forum at this time. Are you seeking to gain political advantage. You know how he answered that question

in a way I'm asking you the same kind of question. People say why is this book coming out right about now. Just when it seems like Marion Barry is about to run by Mary. Excellent question because we finished it nine months ago and it takes nine months to get a book actually on the street from the publisher. We actually sure wouldn't like being reporters. We would have liked to have had this book out on you know on the streets. As Marion was still going through his situation in court Tom said a number of times I wish we could do this in paperback. But as it as it turned out our publisher kept saying we want a book about Washington D.C. not just about Marion Barry which And we tried to do that frankly we had to write the book twice because the first time it was it just didn't work quite well. And also this is the 20th anniversary the thing that publishers said this book is as much about the city as any one person. Marion Barry so that this is the 20th anniversary on May the 8th. Twenty years ago the citizens of Washington

ratified that limited and horrendous form of home rule that we all work under now and that's another reason the mayor's races this year. So it's all time for those types of things now. But you know if Marion Barry were not considering running again for the mayor or whatever he's going to do this book would still be out. So it's not based on what he's doing but based on what we're doing in the history of the city. Why do you call it dream city. Because this is a town where people come to play out and live out their dreams. People come from all over the country to work in Congress. And Marion Barry and the folks who came with him. Stokely Carmichael Ivanhoe Donaldson John Wilson came to this town to live out their dream of a black political power. OK let's talk about the book itself and I know later in the show we'll be taking phone calls a lot of you will want to call because we have a lot of Marion Barry partisans and opponents for that matter who watch the show. But let's go back to the era before Marion Barry leading up to Home Rule and Congress

practically ran the city and then the combination of some liberal elements and some black activists caused a slow move toward home rule. What do you see as the most important element of that. I think the most important element is what we end up with as we research the history of the Home-Rule drive and how there are cheerleaders and others had to compromise to get something for the people of Washington as in congress you do have to compromise but the rights were taken away the racial We call this the most un-American city in America because there are so many racial streams here in the congress the white dominated Congress telling essentially majority black city what to do. And members of Congress and people in the business community white business community didn't want blacks to run the police department didn't want them to have control of their laws and so on every step along the way there were some who let the Congress oversee every law. Well maybe we'll have an appointed federal commissioner to run the police or all kinds of things like that that tell people why the city is in such terrible shape even before you get to way

to the way the local politicians have run it. And even some of the more liberal elements who wanted a limited form of home rule. People like the publisher of The Washington Post Katharine Graham tell us the story about how Roger Wilkins had to intervene in that situation where as we report in the book it was a very confusing time as to LBJ was putting together what he thought was going to be the best way to run the city and it was going to be a a and agglomeration of appointed and he was hoping some elective offices at that point if I'm not mistaken LBJ or someone of his people came to Roger and said We'd like you to be mayor. And Roger said excuse me I am from New York City I might want to go back to New York City at some point. Why don't you choose a Washingtonian Why don't you choose someone who knows about the city. How about Walter Washington. But even before that there was some consideration that would be a white mayor. And I think Roger Wilkins himself said it would make no sense to have a local government and then appoint a white person to be the mayor made no sense. The racial strains within the city and the concerns

people have even what we say about Marion Barry where the white guys are writing about Marion Barry fairly or not go back at every turn nothing in the city can happen unless it's also viewed through the prism of race because people have dictated to this White people have dictated to the city for so long since the 60s when the city became majority block that everything has a racial component. And for reporters whoever it's covers the city if you don't consider that then you're not getting all of this is going on. Marion Barry is on the outside so to speak. No he was he was kind of working on it. And what we now call the grassroots. But one thing I want to bring out is I think it's very crucial as you started to point out before to recall that Lyndon Baines Johnson when he was president made it a very major important part of his civil rights plank to essentially free Washington and get it out from under the congressional thumb. And I think that there was a whole liberal movement that whose goal it was to bring some kind of limited self-rule to Washington D.C.

Marion was on the streets. He was organizing pride Inc. And you know one of the things that astounded us is that when Marion did come to town in 65 and 66 67 he made such an impression on this city that it was overwhelming. And people ask us why so much Marion Barry because he was in some respects still is the most important and dominant political force. Why was he able to have such an astounding effect on the secretary of labor will it works well. Well words who's looking works is frankly the phrase Varietes although many people said quote There will be no riots and wash out of this is the nature of the town. But we're looking for a way to make How's the best way to avoid riots get people with jobs get get doing things to help and work. I think Harry can tell the story better because he actually you know to sell it because you know show likes to talk anyway. That's right. Get a and I think Wirtz was was watching what was going on in places like Detroit and L.A. and Newark and he said My guy you know we can have this city burned

down and it was the summer of 67. It was very hot out. This is the summer job programs that were in existence were winding down and he had a five month five week window. And at that point he went looking for a program and he found Marion Barry Marion Barry Doug Moore was involved Carol Harvey was involved in. Tredwell was involved. And they had just met Rufus catfish Mayfield and so they was again kind of at a spontaneous confluence of events and people that led to that alliance. You say that Rufus May feel toward Marion Barry how to walk the streets of Washington so to speak and and some people will argue that maybe that wasn't such a good thing after all in the light of what happened later. But we move onto the wall the Washington administration here and Walter Washington as I recall in the book seems to justify was the guy who took things slowly. He wanted change and he saw change but he didn't see radical change very quickly is that correct.

That is exactly right. He came in he was appointed the position of mayor and it got power you had to fight to get the power and then he ran and it was known he was a natural in the first elections in 1974 to win. But there are still many holdovers from from the appointed government and by that I mean many whites and suburbanites who ran the city government but he was a calming influence and he was steady he was. He loved the city. He made that clear. He was around but but there was time for change there was time for agitation and Marion Barry saw that and moved on and aggressively Sterling Tucker who also was coming along and he really expected almost to be appointed the next mayor after all to Washington by the voters thought that he would just assume that job as mayor Marion Barry said the people are more restless than this. And I believe I can make the change and make the difference and that's what happened. And by this time of was Marion Barry had moved out of pride and cooperated moved out of the school board and moved onto that first city council under home rule in 1974. And a lot of people were fairly surprised that he would choose to challenge Walter Washington when

Washington was already being challenged by his city council chairperson Stirling Tucker and at the time and I think here we have to talk about Ivanhoe. DONALDSON OK. Who was a was then and still is now one of the most brilliant political strategists that we this this city has ever seen. Here's a guy who was instrumental in the during the snake era helped Stokely Carmichael quite a bit in his organizing days and came here with the express purpose of bringing black political and economic power to the city. And he seized on this opportunity. He was the one who recognized that water Washington and Sterling Tucker could split the vote and in splitting the vote. Marion Barry would have an opening it also haven't had wanted Marion Barry to run for chairman of the council in the first election. But political forces and businesses thwarted Barry's effort to do that and essentially almost forced him to run that large campaign for the council.

But Ivanhoe was right there telling him that he wasn't going for this time the role of the Washington Post is the first time in modern political history in Washington that those of us who follow politics recognize the role that the Washington Post could play in the election situation in Washington. How many times that they write editorials endorsing Marion Barry in 1978 probably about the same number that wrote for Sharon Frederiksen no more and maybe was more it was a whole series seven. It was it was five to seven. I remember specifically on Barry himself as opposed to the nomination. I like him very more than the other candidates. Well he appealed to their sense of the city's possibilities. The other candidates were somewhat humdrum. Marian was you know Marion was and still is a captivating seductive individual. He walked into the into the room where the you had the assembled people who wrote the editorials and he basically well then he convinced them that he was the man who could bring Washington D.C. into the next year.

So they editorialized in favor of him and Marion Barry squeaked through in that election so closely that Sterling demanded a recount. Yes but Marion Barry won the election and now we come to the most. In my view substantive part of the book the rest of it the in context and that is what happened to this city during those years after Marion Barry became mayor. It seems that he instituted much more radical changes than Walter Washington. First and foremost in who ran the city. That's exactly right. It was his goal and his stated goal during the campaign. It's not as if he did it after he won he said he brought in an activist government he virtually hired the Democratic State Committee which with its mixture of men and women he started aggressively saying that if you must live in the city you must be part of the city and start going toward 9 which people call the suburb out there and said All you need to come in and be part of my city and part of my government don't live in the suburbs. So he made a policy change that officials had to live in the city. He aggressively went after the the issues of a boarded up housing several other things some of which was not successful. What he did. He seized the

control of government but more importantly that anything specific he did for the first time. Marion Barry's government opened the eyes of Washington's African-American community to say this is our government. People mature. African-Americans had never been in the district of believing before were invited and made to feel that this was their government and that was one of the most important psychological victories he ever achieved. Upside down inside you also say that then he turns around and gives the store away despite saying that he wanted to see an increase in the percentage of minorities doing contracting business up from about 12 to about 25 and then 35 percent. Why do you say he gave away the store. Well I think there are two issues here. One is is the quid pro quo the deal if you will that Marion made with the white business community and the white developers when the deal was you financed my campaigns. I will give you basically free rein to develop the downtown. What didn't happen in that transaction was that

African-Americans got equity ownership in some of these buildings. What you had instead was developers from Tokyo and from Canada and from Texas coming in and doing business and basically taking all the cookies African-American Still I don't think to this day on very much property west of 15th. But it also makes the argument that if a white developer comes in with an African-American partner they made sure that he was getting there the 35 percent that they could get the sweetest deal possible at a time when our commercial property values downtown were supposed to be higher than any place else in the country. And we continuously or Barry continuously undersold them. I believe that is correct and I think the documents show that they did make as a lodger Rodgers his first city administrators said it made it the policy that if you wanted to do business in the city you had to have joint ventures you had to bring in minority partners. And there was a substantial amount of that. And he did in fact raise the numbers of minority contracts. But in the overall terms of

billions and billions of dollars that were generated in the high tech and the go go 80s not so much of it were to minority firms. So very open the door but not in my personal opinion was enough. I think the other thing is that that he opened the door to a few select people you would always see the same group that were sitting around the table and joining the development teams John Wilson said that this is this was a particular group of people who lived in fact in Potomac. These are African-Americans we're talking yes. Yes. OK. Now you say that one of the reasons why people in Ward 3 I guess with the advice of the Washington Post support that barely so heavily in 1978 was because they thought that the income generated by the city he could make some real changes in the poor wards of the city. And that that's one of the reasons they turned away from him as early as 1982 because they saw him as a moral degenerate. And all of that and he wasn't doing anything for the poor wards of the city. Are you saying in fact

that had he sold our downtown at the market prices then the city would have been able to do something more substantial for people in the poor and wards of the city. I think that if the money were taken I mean Jim Gibson another crucial person here who is a veteran of the Civil Rights Movement engineered this whole notion of of selling the downtown for developers taking that that the tax revenues and using them for for social purposes that never happened. It was the second piece that never happened as well as it should have happened. The housing Marion said in 78 we're going to take the boards off the boards did not come on. Marion said in 78 we're going to help out. You know the folks across the river. That never happened why that never happened is really the saddest part of the state of the tale. Well he did do though he did hire. He went on. He hired people for jobs. And so he ended flat out the white business community won't hire people. Well he did say that and he did so there were some achievements and he

did what little attentions that were paid to east of the river were the first tensions ever paid. So when he when he would build a library or he would build a fire station where he would get the trash picked up which would be expected in some parts of the city. They don't need to be named. That was a major achievement for them to get even some things. But again you could argue that too many too much of it was crumbs going to the places where Barry said he would have the most effect. Indeed you made the argument of the trash pickups water bills that were actually accurate for a change and streets being fixed up. To a large extent responsible for the reason why. Why a lot of people in the poor wards of the city. How about the the youth employment programs that you had in this. I was going to mention the other thing one of his great achievements was it was the use of employment where he said We will hire young people for the summer we will give them something to do. It's kind of a government run private situation. He said he would do that. But you know white voters didn't turn against him because he didn't fix Anacostia or he didn't fix the Washington Heights or some other place as

you mentioned a moment ago. They turned against him because they did not like him because of his public persona and that's one of the problems you have. And by 1982 they turned against him. And we do have a lot more to go on. We have a lot of phone calls. I want you to turn to page one 86 while we talk a little bit more because I think ultimately I want you to read something from 1982. He comes up against Patricia Roberts Harris who decides to run against him. And now he's got all the developers in his pocket. Would you argue he's got all the money he said for Oliver Carr except for Oliver call and he beats her handily after he beats are handy. What does he do with all of this goes back to Oliver car. And he says Ali let's make a deal. I you know I beat you fair and square. Come on my team. And that was beneficial to all the car. It was beneficial to Marion Barry. I'm going to stretch this out a little longer because you also say that Jeff Cohen got some of the sweetest deals ever in the city of Washington that we the taxpayers generally paid for when he bought the properties of children's hospital and and the like.

Yes that's correct. Jeff Gold is one of the first persons to trust to get the city to pay attention to Franklin Square where it used to be this kind of sex place or just a bunch of sex clubs. I knew about them when I was in the Navy. You think you're being generous with Jeff at this point. No. No but he did. He had he had he had a hotel there which he turned into a virtual flophouse and then he went he got to the Children's Hospital money and he got a certificate of occupancy of needs c o and as they call it the bureaucracy and it was a very valuable thing and he didn't deliver. Why I wanted to ask you to read page 186 as you know was in addition to some of the things that Barry did around 186 is a kind of list of all of the things that he didn't accomplish. As I recall 186 187. Let me take a look. I think I know you're right better than you. Well. OK here we go. Start with. All right. Delivering until I tell you it's ok. I'm going to read this if you're like I'm in class or you're delivering a welfare check to the district consistently

cost twice the national average for example the district child support collection agency had the rare distinction of being the only one in the nation to repeatedly spend more than it collected. City officials kept such poor track of children in the foster care system. The judges held the district in contempt city run boarding homes for the mentally retarded were neglected to the point where an 88 year old resident covered with maggots and lies collapsed and died in a hospital emergency room. The city's largest nursing home was responsible for locking out an 88 year old woman who froze to death in 25 degree weather buried cronies landed costly social service contracts that enraged them but delivered few services going. Keep going. The tales of bungled rescue missions by the city's ambulance service dominated the news. Jean Deens suffered an asthma attack on February 26 1987 and called Nine one one. The ambulance got lost and she died in April. Who's Carl Koski collapse from a suspected heart attack at the Downtown Hotel

Harrington. Her co-workers called 911 one after an hour half hour an ambulance arrived and took her to George Washington University Hospital where she died. Emergency dispatchers received six calls about a woman who was not breathing. I'm going to switch to the wrong address used from a firehouse 13 blocks away took another 11 minutes to arrive. The victim Lisa Wil's died of cardiac arrest on the way to the hospital. Berry was slow to acknowledge the ambulance problem and never completely solved it. When we come back we'll take a few telephone calls after we discuss a little bit more and I'm sure we'll hear another version of what life in Washington under Marion Barry was like. Stay with us. We'll be right back. Feeling the effects that you see there is my

idea of staying alive. Yes it does. You know Jeff always tried to present himself as presents himself as the fairest most talkable guy that he is. Yes and now he's a guy he was mistreated whether he was abandoned by Barry or whatever they say that he did that some remarkably sweet deals. Well when you get through that Alaskan bankruptcy remember he had his daddy claim them when he went into bankruptcy. He claimed that he didn't know his father all his money 17 million dollars as I recall. What I feel. Well you know like I don't know that we get to this book as much as we tried to. She said You know Matt in Florida called me today she was eloquent about what a bodacious man Mary was and that's why he was and still is

so incredibly bodacious. That's a good word. It was. A. Day. Welcome back. We're talking with Tom SHARWOOD and Harry Jaffe the authors of the new book Dreams City Race Power and the decline of Washington D.C. and I will get to the phones but two issues need to be discussed before we get to the phones. One of them has to do with the city personnel in the Barry administration you talk a great deal in the book about what happened to Ivanhoe Donaldson and then a lot of ways that seemed characteristic of what happened to city government. You feel

that as a result of the people around Marion Barry that city government began to be corrupt and it's filtered down to all levels. Would you say that's why we're having the kinds of problems that we're having today with the Department of Public and assistant housing. Having having employees who are selling subsidies under the table. You say that it was the Barry administration that started that kind of corruption the latter years of the Barry administration. Yes indeed those problems were and we're seeing now are we're in the making so many years ago many of the people came into the first term and Barry and started leaving during the second term and were not even around for the third term did Luke took something away when they left some idealism some true effort. Any administration is going to wear out Marion Barry failed to replenish his administration with people who had the same vision and desire and goals that he that he talked about though his administration wasn't pursuing them.

The other point is the amazing deterioration in his personal life over time even though you make the point that going way back to snake Marion Barry had been accused of sexual assault by a slick volunteer that he that there was a political activist in this town who claimed that he had raped or call the police but he was able to get out of that one. Would you care to talk a little bit about what to me even though knowing a little bit about the story was an amazing personal deterioration in drugs sex and the inability to function properly on a day to day basis for a long period of time. Well this is a story that in a sense we all know we went into some greater detail and greater depth and I think that one of the reasons that one of the things that surprised us in our reporting because you know two reporters come to a story to try to make it a little bit fresh was this was going back and finding the sexual assaults going way back there certainly is a pattern here. And you know I don't think it's something that I think Marion Barry certainly understands and acknowledges what effect that had on the city I think is more important.

I mean let's try to leave aside what happened to him and let's talk about what that did to the city. I think that one of the unfortunate fallouts of this is that as Marion lost control of his own situation he was unable to enforce that kind of discipline that you need to run a city. You blame virtually the crack epidemic on him. Well there is a slightly different issue here and that is I think that there's a mirror image between Marians difficulties with the drug and the city's difficulties with drug. However what I would do blame on Marion is the deterioration in the police department. We point out that low target and another police officer warned Marion and the top brass in the early 80s look out crack is coming down the line and we better prepare ourselves and get ready for it. And from what Lowell Duckett says and I and I trust Mr. Duckett he said Excuse me. That never happened. They ignored warnings. The police department lost its own set of discipline and its own ability to fight. Not enough cars not enough technology not enough police on the

streets. That happened during Marians rain and the poor training in the in 89 and 90 which led to the round of corruption that we've had in the last couple of years. Also under his watch and now as we get ready to go to our viewing audience for questions the questions that some people might be screaming at the television set right now. Did you consider the fact that you two white guys writing about a black mayor who used to be and still is in some circles very popular in a predominantly black town and how did you approach. Well it never occurred to him you know that's a very serious question that deserves a serious answer. Harry and I each have an answer that I was asked a question when I covered Washington matters for the Washington Post I think a person must be judged on how what he or she does. And I think that when people ask that we turn the question around and say well if we don't write it. Having been involved in it as reporters and journalists were are the other books for the people who are mad at us for writing it I would say to them

where's your book. I would like that. It sounds a little combative but I would say I've been here in the city for over was in the late early 70s. I'm part of the city. I wrote the book because I care about the city. And I want to see more books about the city. This is our version of the truth. That's all we can write. Want more versions of the truth. I would add one thing to that. If you stereotype us as white reporters then you have to also stereotype African-Americans as they would come to this subject matter. I think one African-American reporter might write a different book than another Juan Williams was one of the mayor's harshest critics. You ask Neil Harris who works for the Washington Post now whether he would write a different book. I mean of course they would but would it be markedly different than ours. I'm not so sure now the telephone. Thank you for waiting so patiently. Now on your caller go ahead please. Well I've read that book with you and I was quite outraged at it because I think I would look at your question about why

you guys might not have it. And speaking out I guess in a sense for black people it really made me angry. I feel that. And I did and people die and that's it. And what I got from it was that people who support him are too ignorant to know that you know you know and I respect that. I think a lot of good he had a problem. But then you know the whole country is at problem. We've got to present this and and big deal about that so bad when we got it all of that flap going on the whole country on this I don't allow me to interrupt. I understand your sentiments exactly but does the fact that the criticism is coming from two white guys means that we should ignore the facts. I think that I am angry at a male. And it

was up again a lot of racism because I feel that the folks I know want to keep this city the way it is. They want to show it. And I think it might be a strong black man. Where did that go. The bowing and scraping and I find they don't like down the line for us. I would just like to request one thing read the book. The review gives a certain slice of the book which we frankly disagree with. The review was full of errors that you said that we never mentioned Adam Clayton Powell excuse me we mentioned him a number of times. We'll stand on our on our book. I don't want to deal with the review. You can be you know are you still there. Caller Yes because what concerns me about your question is here are two white reporters who say that this strong black leader of violence sold our city down the drain to white developers. How does that make you feel. I I don't I don't know that I can say

that but I can't say that I don't know why people care about the passion of the people. And I think that a very good example of it is that he helped set it up. Excellent point he did what the poor people City he did a lot. He did a lot for women. And I know at it and when I got slapped down with them very often people and we all do it out of money. And why thank you very much call it that was a point that was made to me several times today as I typed in let me say this. Marion Barry is helping senior citizens helping the poor helping doing remarkably well and appointing women to strong government positions. African-American women as well as white women in fighting on the Hill. It's all in the book.

It's not this is not a catalog of Marion Barry sends if we have some Bible here this is a catalog of what happened in Washington and since the last 30 years. It talks about a racist Congress that talks about racism being the sewer on Pennsylvania Avenue because the way the city has been treated there are far too many white people who wallow in the fact that Marion Barry had a personal failing and then therefore tried to push that onto the city. That's as wrong as saying that Marion Barry because he's an African-American cannot be criticized for the things that went wrong. I think we have to speak up and speak straight up about what happened to Barry good and bad. The fact of the telephone it's your turn to call you on the air go ahead please. Good evening. Good evening to you and your guests. I totally disagree with your previous caller. I'm going to give you two very explicit examples and I hope all the callers and come after me will focus on the facts rather than the emotional part of this. In 1980 Barry stated in an interview with Juan Williams and I'll quote what

a were all the black people that they didn't support me and I will not go any distance for them. Now during that pardon in 1980 he grasped a schedule my overdue welfare increase and he also cut the education budget. And those are the two parts of the budget that are most important to poor black people. Now that your other callers deal with facts and if I could point out just one quick thing. Drug treatment problems in poor neighborhoods are treated when Barry had his own drug problem he went off out of state to get drug treatment. One of the big failings of drug treatment in his administration is he never got drug treatment. East of the river back to the telephone you're on the air. Caller go ahead please. Good evening coach I'm mad as you know what it is. JAFFEE it's Lecomte you get off blaming Derek for the crack epidemic in this city when you have the federal government still fighting a war crime. You know for the last 25 years.

And also the timing of the book is questionable because if Mr. Barry decides to run for mayor and you have this trash out here what do you think the voters are going to think. OK thank you very much. It is a valid question because there have been crack epidemics that were uncontrolled and all of the major systems cities in the country was Tom Bradley to blame for that. L.A. was comin young to blame for that Detroit was it cuts to blame for New York. Yes. I would say yes. And I don't think that marrying it is it can it can escape blame but I would go to the you know don't don't. Don't kill the messenger. You know we report facts in this book and I really urge people to understand that this book is a lot more than just about Marion Barry. And we report what what the findings of the police department we talked to policemen themselves we are not saying OK Marion brought crack to town he distributed crack. But we do say that that that this city could have been

better prepared to deal with its crack problem. And can we have one quick thing this week. Marion Barry is in this book early on nearly 30 years ago complaining that the federal government needed to do more about the drugs being brought into this country you're saying the drugs were not being manufactured in the inner cities. No what it was he said it 30 years ago he said it all through his mayoral campaigns. That's in the book too. It's not just an attack on Marion Barry. I reported what he said back to you on the telephone you were on the air. Go ahead please. Hi I take issue with Mr. Jaffe's comment that Marion Barry roun the police department and we need more police. I think we haven't really. We have 4500 police here in the District of Columbia out of a population of six hundred seventy seven thousand one hundred fifty people men women and children. I'm looking at it as an armed camp and 20 percent of those people are dead.

Policemen have either been brought in had charges brought against them or been involved in sort of discipline. Are you sure the percentage is that high. Twenty in the past three years. I don't think it's that high. But go ahead. OK. It might be 100 or overall. OK. And there's a three year backup with complaints that the civilian review board. So I don't think what we need is more police. I just think we need to get along fairly. And what's bothered me a lot in the District is this hung jury. Are we headed toward a system where you're going to need 12 blacks to convict a white and 12 white to convict a black. Finally you touched on an issue that hasn't been dealt with in the book and isn't allowed to go. I think it's in there. I do have to move on to another caller you on the air. Go ahead please.

Oh yes it isn't because the. Yes it's suburban go right ahead caller. Hi good afternoon. I just wanted to say that on the very use there seems to be one great secret is kept in this city and that is in 19 in 80 but in 1987 there were six hundred thirty eight thousand rather than the District of Columbia. Five hundred ninety thousand of that in the District of Columbia as of 1996. There are 600 6000 residents and there are several hundred thirty thousand. District again in that 10 year period. A hundred and forty thousand jobs. Most of those jobs were occupied but I read that as these the people that bury me with the developers did not do City residents any good whatsoever. Our unemployment rate during that period of time had always run higher than national average and has always run high that just around the

jurisdictions. So you're saying that those developers should have been required to provide jobs the District residents of call is gone. And I think we have time for. Go ahead. Would you say one thing. If if there had been a coordinated program that involved education to prepare people to take advantage of those opportunities that did come in the 80s. I think we would have in better shape. One of the things we point out in this book is that the education budget under Marion Barry continually went down as a component of the entire city budget. Time for one more telephone call. It's you you're on the air caller. Go ahead please. Good evening gentlemen Cojo. I guess my first my only question was Where did the idea originally come from in order to make the book. Because I guess just like other callers you have to wonder about the timing of the book which is coming out. I heard Mr. Jaffe's said it took months to come out. I got a quick answer for that with the book from the publisher but I don't answer that question real quick.

Here's the here's what happened after Marion Barry's arrest I had covered Marion Barry for for the whole decade and Harry had done amphoras magazine. Harry called me we were not we didn't really even know each other he said we needed to write a book about Washington about Marion Barry. This is gonna be an amazing time. And he said I think I know some people in New York who know some of the public says they wouldn't get this together. We went up and went to New York. We said we wanted. We met with some of the publicist who said we want to write a book about the nation's capital and about Marion Barry. You make sure you write it about the city not just as one man he might go away and disappear and he won't be worth the book. A couple of years from now when you finish it. And so that's what we started. It took us four years to get it done and here it is. We signed that contract in February of 1990 and we've been working on it ever since. I only want to say one thing before you trash this book. Just read it. That's all I ask. It's called Dream City the author Tom Sherwood and Harry Jaffe. We're out of time in this segment by popular acclaim you demand that they come back so you can beat up on them some more. We will have to acquiesce. Until then we've got to take a break. When we come back we will talk about the celebration of Malcolm X.. Stay with us.

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Got them back in life. Malcolm X was feared and maligned misunderstood in death. He is now lionized by the young and remembered by many of us all too. This year the Malcolm X Day Committee is sponsoring a series of events to celebrate the life of Malcolm X. It includes a film festival that begins on Friday May 6th and continues through May 21st. One of the films that will be shown is the film on Malcolm X's life and tattoo entitled Malcolm X make it plain. Here to talk about the film is William Strickland the author of The Comeback companion book to the film. Welcome to you. Bill Strickland I. And from the Malcolm X Day Committee. Casey Sipher is that of course people crazy people. Congratulations on your change of name. I was not aware that you had done it. I was about to call you by your own name used to call them slaves. Welcome Quezon. Thank you. I saw the documentary

Malcolm X make it plain. I went into it like most other people thinking that I knew a great deal about Malcolm X and then when I saw the documentary I realized just how much I didn't know. Congratulations on a great piece of work. Tell us a little bit about what went into making the company and. Everything actually. Let me let me thank you for the kind words about the film the film was a product of a number of people. It originally came out of the fact that I'd been a consultant on eyes on the prize. And there's a segment in I used to call his our time has come on Malcolm And the response was so overwhelming that Henry Hampton the head of a black side and Rolando Blagg work backward Bagwell decided to try and do the documentary and then they got the approval of the go ahead from PBS The American Experience series to do the film the film was three and a half years in the making.

And and someone who is very well known in certain quarters of this of of of of Washington DC in the world Judy Richardson associate producer of the film but many many people have have said they really think. Appreciate Judy as a friend and mentor of mine and Bill Strickland that should be pointed out as well known as being associated with the institution of the black world in Atlanta Georgia and so a lot of people here know him I would like to show you a special picture out of the book if we have it available because the book has a number of very beautiful pictures in it. And if we have that special picture then Bill can you look at our monitor right there. That is Bill Strickland sitting behind Malcolm X. when he was shall we say a little younger than he is now. Tell us what that situation is. Well actually the significance of that meeting with the person who is not who is not captured in the film is Mrs. Fannie Lou Hamer and it was a meeting at the William the institutional church in Harlem in December of 1964 when I wasn't involved with the

Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party and had organized this meeting to bring Malcolm and Mrs. hammer together. We had a discussion here on the evening exchange about the Mississippi Freedom Summer memorial that will be taking place later this year. Is that how you got to know Malcolm through the organizing for the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party. No I'm from Roxbury. I'm a homeboy. Oh come on. And I met Malcolm When I was very I first met him when I was five. He was the friend of all of my cousins. My cousin was kind of my hero and I was when I was very young still is to a large extent actually. And he was my cousin's name is Leslie was part of a neighborhood football team which serendipitously was called the Black Panthers and they had these black jackets with our orange and orange Jaguar on the pocket. And Malcolm was a friend of his. So I had seen Malcolm on the street which no longer exists in Boston called Hubert street when I was very very young. And then later I ran into him when I was in college when he came to

Harvard and I I really connected. I remember you from. We stayed in touch until his death. The documentary you mentioned was three and a half years in the making. The accompanying book I should point out to our viewers is beautiful is the reproduction of black and white pictures and this book is absolutely phenomenal. Could you tell us a little bit about what was different about the making of the book to which you contributed the text or the photographs of the credit of Cheryl Green. There were a thousand and the black side team Cheryl labored over these thousand photographs and selected 200 and wrote and wrote the captions and the photographs are striking when the product from the company. It's a striking book and one I hadn't seen it until it emerged. And everyone who has seen it has been struck by the by the design by the by the tear that went into the production of the book but the photographs and and and the marriage between the

photographs and the text is something that makes the book easy to read and more comprehensive. It is very easy to read and I think that makes it attractive for young people in particular. The writing is very straightforward. Indeed you might want to explain for our viewers why the documentary and book are called Make It Plain. For the several reasons and for those who seen the documentary there was a code between Malcolm and and brother Benjamin that when Malcolm when they were ready to bring Malcolm forward to speak he would reach out or say make it plain. And that was and that was the signal to bring him forth. But if you if one sees that those meetings of the nation when Malcolm was or are not just Malcolm when people are talking in those meetings they will very often. There will be it's like a church people will shout out make it plain. And that that that phrase resonates. Time and time again in response to Malcolm's raps to be contemporary for those of you who think that having seen the Spike Lee movie you have seen

it all. You ain't seen nothing yet. Tell us about. A number of the other things that will be taking place during the course of this month. Thank you. First let me say thank you to you for bringing this forward. And as chairman of the Malcolm X committee I'm proud to announce I'll 23rd on your celebration in particular we have a whole month of activity and I hope that people can join us. Now the struggle will be at Vertigo books tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. and at 11:00 a.m. at the Biograph theater to do a book signing and we will show the film Malcolm X make it plain that the Biograph on Saturday that's Friday May 6th is when he's doing the book signing the Vertigo and Saturday Saturday 7th at the library. Yes you know our shows where people will get better I thank you our viewers don't go running around October. You go to jail. But also with this film festival we have three other documentaries that we think are going to be very informative and educational. You know our mission has always been to keep the educational component of Malcolm's life in the forefront of the community here

with on running the following weeks we'll be seven songs from Malcolm X X and A Half the baby cinema and Malcolm X. There's another documentary but it slips me and I was looking for papers to make sure I had. But we will be run it until the 21st. But in addition to that again for the past two years we have been the city has proclaimed me as my home next month and in keeping with that we have a number of forums that will be kicking off beginning on Monday May 16th. Let me back up because on Saturday May 14th in conjunction with the Smithsonian Institution at Anacostia museum we will be doing Washington D.C. remembers Malcolm X A panel discussion at the Ripley theater which is on the mall. Eleven hundred Jefferson's drive. And on that panel will be Marion Barry askand Muhammad myself and some other panelists who know and have worked with Malcolm But on the 17th on the 16th that

Monday we will be running a program dealing with environmental racism and health in the African-American community a panel discussion led by Don Will Smith Norris McDonald Kyle Patterson and joy Jefferson will be our moderator as we look at who's office. Our senior producer for evening ex-state. That's right. So that will be that Monday May 16th. And I will spill what the young people has always been through the Go Go community and we have worked with them on Tuesday May 17th we will sponsor a form and panel discussion entitled The message in the music or the madness in the message. And that will deal with the lyrics of rapping go which is local to this city. And then we will have our cultural celebration on May 19th culminated on May 22nd Sunday with Malcolm X the 23rd annual Malcolm X Day celebration at Anacostia Park. And we invite the community to join us to all of those activities. Thank you very much Chris. Back to Malcolm X. Make a plan for one second one of the most impressive things both about the

documentary and the book is how it got people close to Malcolm in particular his brothers who had to stay in the Nation of Islam one who was forced to denounce him on the ear. It must have been very difficult to get them to say publicly some of the things they said about why they did what they did and their feelings today about the brother to whom you refer. A Philbert just passed. Unfortunately I'm sorry to hear the passed and in February the older brother will forgive is still very much with this thing for his death. And he is now accepting engagements with me. He was in New York earlier this year to pray for reminiscences and since sense Mother's Day one of the things that's that people have really liked in the book was the role of the family and the autobiography. This there's a suggestion that Malcolm is converted to the nation

by one brother. But in fact both of his older brothers his older sister and his younger brother were in the nation. And it was a family reach out that induced him to join the nation. And did you find out a lot more about Malcolm X and Malcolm X make a plain text by William Strickland with the oral history selected selected and edited by Cheryl Green. That's all the time we have in this segment. Got to take a break. We'll be right back. I