Evening Exchange; Raising Black Children

Raising black children up next on the evening exchange. Welcome to the exchange I'm Jeanette Pinkney sitting in for Kojo Nnamdi. It seems that we can not turn on the television or pick up a newspaper without seeing pictures and stories about young black people frequently young black men who have turned to crime and National Education Statistics tell us that black children are dropping out of school at of the alarming rate. Clearly we live in a society that does not particularly value black life. Our national images of beauty and success are white people. So how does a black parent get through to their children. Joining us for an hour long discussion are two min who have some of the answers they've written a book on the subject. Dr. James Comer is a professor of child psychiatry at Yale University and the director of the Yale Child Study Center his school's development program. Dr. Kalmar also

writes a column for Parents magazine. Also joining us is Dr. Alvin Poussaint who teaches psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. He was a consultant to the cause of the show and a different world. Both men have penned a book entitled raising black children. Welcome it's so good to have you I feel like we just have a wealth of knowledge and talent right here. Horace good to be here. And I guess I just want to mention to Dr. Poussaint that that the we say to our viewers that you were the consultant to the television shows there's also much much more work. But I think that work was very important and I want to ask if you just take a minute to tell us some about what a consultant who is a psychiatrist is on those shows that are. And hed continue to be so popular. Dick Lee The Cosby Show A Different World what I did was get the scripts and what I did was what caused the one of me to do. He said that he wanted this story lines to be positive without insulting humor but not humor but also that the interactions be

psychologically believable that they would be real. They would be like a lot of these sitcoms where there's a lot of one liners and funny jokes but after you finish a show you say what was that all about. He wanted to deal with real issues in with with with comedy but he didn't want to be made up issues so he wanted people to be able to say that happened in my family. I remember something like that happening with my father and that my mother. He also wanted me to to help to make it educational. And that deal with the right is in keeping it in a in a black cultural context you know what I mean and I mean even to the point if it if it if one of the kids was going out to a to the ballet and they had American Ballet Theatre that might be changed to Alvin Ailey Dance troupe. You sing if what they were doing a book report out of a book by Norman Mailer that might get you. Up a little bit Bill.

Maybe you like how it was when shorts on black colleges and so on to you know to to bring all of you into the home. Not yet black people but also white people so I was there just as a kind of but. In fact is an alter ego to things I knew that Cosby himself wanted you know wanted to do and I wanted also if we could again before we talk about raising black children the joint project of the two of you take a moment and ask you Dr. Comer to tell us a little about what I know has been one of your previous solo projects one that I enjoyed very much. Tell us a little about Maggie's American dream and if i hope you don't mind my saying this on the if I'm not mistaken your mother passed very recently and it's in the last two months two months ago yes. It was and it's difficult but the way people have responded as if she touched them personally has been very supportive. The story is about a

mother being born into extreme poverty with a good good father who was killed by lightning when she was six years of age and because there were no support systems during that period. A cruel stepfather came into their lives and he was abusive in every way. I would not allow the children good to go to school. And she decided that the way to a better life was through education. She ran away when she was 16 years of age and tried to get an education up north. But eventually she couldn't and had to leave school and declared that if she ever had children she was going to make certain that all of her children got a college education. So my mother with no education my father the sixth grade she worked as a domestic He worked as a steel mill labor. The two of them eventually sent the five of us to college for 13 college degrees. And it was that experience of pieces that best. Do you know I don't know about you but it was that experience while

also watching my friends from my neighborhood go on a downhill course and realizing that they were just as bright and able and also that that's what was happening to lots of young black people and it was unnecessary and that they could be contributing citizens it was that that led me away from general practice is the idea I had and into psychiatry child psychiatry and eventually my work in schools. And tell us all about the Center at Yale that you read. Well they say the program I had as a part of the Yale Child Study Center. But the program started in two inner city schools that were the worst academically socially attendance and so on. We went into those schools brought parents teachers administrators together so that they planned the social and academic program of the school together and gradually turned it around so that those became two of the best schools in the city. And now that program is in 25 different school districts across the country and the District of

Columbia and a number of schools here. We're going to talk some now about raising black children the joint project. The title. Says very clearly I wouldn't say implies but actually says to us that you raise black children differently. Is that so. Or are there some basic principals tools that you use in raising any children. Well I think that Jim and I would agree that the basic rules or ways that you raise all children to make them strong whether you're African American and European American a Chinese or Japanese all across the world that you you need to love and give to kids and be attentive to them and help them to to develop to grow and assist them in that kind of development it takes a lot of caring and a lot of a lot of patience. And that's true for all children we felt though there are of course special issues as you know as you know as a black black woman. There's special issues for black children for black people in

this country the kind of obvious that have to do with you know racism and discrimination but also cultural differences and how to adapt to the world and how to ward off a lot of the negative imagery that you get about being black in America that makes you get poor self-esteem and poor self-image which then can interfere with with achievement success and in fact have you even turned on yourself from saying black children don't have them act out very destructive destructively. And then we also feel that black people probably more than other populations in the country have had to struggle with issues like poverty and deal you know getting getting jobs dealing with dealing with the basics I mean the the infrastructure is the worse in any of the neighborhoods etc. So there are a lot of questions that that black parents raise also some central to the racial issues as Jim knows that may come come up. I want to ask you to talk some about those. Those may show issues in some specific terms what are some of the problems that

come up and how can we deal with it. Well even before they come from the outside and from people you know you very often you read to your children or look at the books that we read to our children off they're not often they're no black characters and often they're not positive when they are black. And there are many things in the environment that we're not even paying a lot of attention to that can be negative about black people or simply the exclusion of black people. But then around three years of age children. Developed awareness of difference and began to develop ideas about the differences they began youth. Excuse me when you say different. Do you mean. Racial the racial diversity of it different and while differences they notice all kinds of differences they begin to notice our boys a difference from girls and they notice for racial features and how they're different they begin to raise questions about the differences. Now the messages they began to get as they look around the world

they see. Black people in negative positions because the media often over emphasizes the negative. You see white people in positive positions than they have began to associate blackness with badness whiteness with goodness and opportunity and power. And this happens without any discussion where it can happen without any discussion at all. And that's why when they begin to talk about race you have to talk about it in a way that that is positive without being anxious and making the children anxious calm confident ways you have to talk about yourself and that they are your children and if they say for example they come home after having contact with white children or whatever stimulates it and say I am white. Well you can get upset and anxious and go crazy around that statement but what you'll be conveying is your anxiety and frustration and

and worry and wondering whether you did something wrong. It's much better to say something like No you're not white you're black like mommy like daddy and other positive people and speak in a language that they can understand and then they'll come that'll come back again and again but it is your count confidence and you're the important person in their lives that makes being black a positive thing rather than a negative image of it. Just help out with a question for a moment. As you say to the child you know you're not white you're black. Do you also want to say something directly such that reinforces being black is a good thing aside from that mommy and daddy are black do you want to say. Black people are beautiful you are you're your brown skin is pretty like those sorts of things as well. You can and you will at some point along the line. But you don't have to overdo it if you start to get into lectures and I know one situation where a parent reacted by started talking about Martin Luther King and all the contributions.

Two or three are all right. All that conveys is your anxiety about it because you're overreacting to the situation that I think was one of the important things is that this demonstrates that. The black parents themselves have to have the heads together to see that there are a lot of black parents who have all kinds of issues around being black on internalized feelings that are negative about being black if they have those kinds of feelings and the first thing they have to do is examine them honestly see otherwise they'll be transmitted to the children I mean we all know of the days although it's disappearing with so many black people had POA hang hang ups right. That then would get put on the children as the children have the right features and the right hair and the right color then they would get accepted or rejected. You know and it could be on either side. You know it could be that they did they were upset if the kid was was light it could be they would love that if they were light it could be they were they they they were more

protective of a kid who was dark because they felt they would have a harder time. So all those kinds of issues. Black parents are dealing with consciously frequently that they're not even talking about but issues before the child even comes into the world. And you say that this begins to happen at 3:00 this noticing of the potential difference what happens now we can't go year by year. But as as children get older like other things can we. Well well what you want to do is from the very beginning you know what makes children begin to feel good about themselves has very little to do with race in the beginning is the way they're treated the way they're cared for. Now that begins to build a good inner core about the self. And then when they raise those initial questions you respond in a way that reinforces the inner core plus the fact that being black is a good thing. Are there other turning point ages at which we can expect certain things to write in and come out of the results. I think you're right.

Particularly around seven and eight. And so when they really began to turn away from so much interest in themselves and into the world and have contact often with people outside of their little social network. And they begin to place themselves in the world they will then really begin to raise questions about who they are and what their opportunities are and so on. It's during that period that you really want to expose black children to their culture even before that. But as during that period it's very important for them to see black culture and I begin to understand the black experience and also begin to explain things about why you see a disproportionate amount of crime or problems in the black community. I remember a situation where young boy was going down the street at 8:00 and he saw the black neighborhood he lived in a nice they were good and they saw a troubled neighborhood and he made a negative remark. And his father had to remind him that he the father grew up in that kind of neighborhood and went on to

explain the conditions that led to that kind of neighborhood. And so you give the child a positive sense of self and also an understanding of why there are these problems that prevent them from developing a negative. You know I'm I'm thinking back to when I was a child I remember my brother coming home and saying he was white when he was I don't know he was six or something like that or five. And. Then when he got much older was 10 12. Maybe even a young teen. He said probably a lot of young teen but he said he was going to invent a machine that you would get in and you'd stay at it for 10 minutes or something. And when you came out you would be white and then says he this many hundreds of miles away I'll say that he eventually grew up and married a white woman. And I just wonder you know we were raised by the same parent so what are the other factors in that. And that's not been my orientation at all so what are the factors besides. The environment that the parents provide in the home that will affect how children see themselves racially or develop their racial identity.

Well I you know see I see a lot of things are coming. Black children know if we sit here and we realize that you know all of the the Mother Goose tales the fairy tales everything about Sleeping Beauty Cinderella and planting things in black kids heads right that are very very very white things. A lesser being offset by other kinds of material things that you're doing a lot of them are going to be indoctrinated very strongly with with. Well I mean everything from you know Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. So so that at times they're going to wish they're going to see the white people as a people with all the goodies. People who are dominant and in control and in some sense when they say they want to be white sometimes they're saying you know I want to be important do I want to be. Who did I want to be seen as powerful. I want to be appreciated you see. You see what I mean I think it symbolizes and you know in a whiteness so it's sometimes in a in a wish to be white but not it doesn't always mean

necessarily to me that they're totally rejecting that you know blackness it would it would depend. But it's there you know where the parents have to step into it to talk to you know to have conversation to try to find out in fact what does the child mean when they say that whether you know you're trying to be like your friend Jimmy or you're going to school with like and you would be more like what you know to get some sense of you know what the issues and problems brought up before they could move on. OK. When we come back your questions for Dr. Colmer and Dr. Poussaint Stay tuned. Oh. I am.

Hi welcome back I'm Jeanette Pinkney sitting in for Kojo Nnamdi and am very privileged to be talking this evening with two of the most noted psychiatrist in the country who are also we are proud to say black psychiatry is Dr. James Cameron Dr. Alvin Poussaint. We're going to take your calls in just a moment but I first want to ask them to talk a little bit about. Whether you think integration has been good for our children. And I'm thinking particularly of friends of mine who've moved to the suburbs because they want their children to have good schools and lots of grass and then become upset when the children start talking like valley girls and dating white kids. In many ways it's been good and had to happen in school desegregation had to occur because that was a huge somebody'll that suggested that there was something wrong with black people and there was some reason rational reason for keeping black people out of opportunity within the mainstream so that that was important to break that and the people who did it are or he rolls that and the other was the right you know that was

right. Ve. The. The other part of it though is that we get caught in a school integration struggle and we didn't pay attention to economic integration and the economic structures that needed to be created are maintained even in order to bring most black people into the economic mainstream. And so while we were struggling for school integration we lost much of the economic base that we had and the opportunities to strengthen that and bring many more black people and in that sense it's been a problem. And many black people have moved out of black neighborhoods that are no longer as safe as we'd like for them to be. And it only makes matters worse and we still in order to address the problems in the most troubled neighborhoods. We're going to have to do something about the economic situation the economic base and bring that base in to those areas.

But you know the things probably to that that those parents could do in terms of their child going to that particular school see how much are they involved in the school. What is the school doing in terms of curriculum being multicultural being inclusive. What kind of post is on the wall. You see they could they get they could do things to streamline some of the the overwhelming kind of white European input and kind of standards of what I mean by that is like cultural images and so on in the school by the you know I think that integrated schools should be should represent not just one perspective but the different perspectives of the different groups attending the institution so I don't think parents should just stand by and accept that children being indoctrinated and sure in one way or one vision. Sure. Well you mentioned the book and one of the good schools one of the good schools did just that young white woman played my mother in a school play as a way of exposing

the experience to the white children as well as black children. So there are things that you can do to prevent this notion that everything positive and wonderful is what our viewers are anxious to talk to you call or go ahead place. Welcome to evening state. Me I am very glad that you have this program I want to be me. I am in the number right now I have a 5 year old who's just started school and it is in a Euro centric school. The issue all the issues that you've spoken about this evening have applied to him. It is important is that this is a two pronged statement it is important that we look at each other about an ethnic point of view which you both brought out instead of calling each other black and white. Look at it as Afro-American African American and look at the European American as a European American and not as a white person. Because those terms

actually put a negative image and I tell it. So my question is When are we going to get past the point Callie of that even on the census. The nation sometimes claimed that way and then say it is in reference to the school. In many instances there are no reference to other ethnic groupings there and how can this be brought about and clear without alienating the child. And thirdly that I think a little bit of that one. OK I've noticed that in many instances although boys are. Really bored in any of the material that are coming out today a lot of them may have an African-American child on your little girl. But we definitely don't see any boy. Thank you Paula. I'm going to ask you all to try to answer those briefly because the phones are full of folks who want to speak with you.

Well I'll try the first one you like or as in that I think that the point that she raises about the use of black and white in terms of racial designations is there are a lot of problems with that. I mean biological otherwise you know black people who don't represent race I think that there are a lot of negative connotations to the word black and a lot of positive connotations to the word white on the other hand the black conscious movement did it for exactly that reason. That's right. To try to purge people of negative connotations around the word black. On the other hand that she I think she's correct in saying that if we're going to be African-Americans and we should refer to them as European Americans rather than as as white because the culture in a way. The white supremacy that that gives him some kind of psychological advantage potentially. I think that's what she's saying. And there's a lot of discussion an argument about how to handle that and how to talk about it with people as some people want to go to European American and African American and leave out the white black stuff because they

feel that some of the negative images related to being black the word black cannot be overcome. But they're saying it can't purge yourself of the negative imagery. But we're changing the designation make a difference or would it not simply come to be that European American is good and powerful and outside America is well get it and well that it could be that they're saying that the European American is not as loaded as a positive word as the word white is and if you think of all of the current actions give it a white. If you already know what you know why you know many things that say well remove that and call him your you know even if they actually aren't insane and you you don't start thinking you see in those these already pre indoctrinated words about ways about the word white in a positive and superior way. I ducked. Let me thank you very much for taking questions she had. But it's one I think it needs debate. I think about the school and the books and stories and

black boys. I think that it's important for parents to have discussions with school people in a non-threatening way and help them think about why it's important to have stories to show the black experience in a positive kind of way. And also black boys and positive kinds of ways. I read what she's saying. Did your knowledge true that Black females are betraying much more often in the books and black black boys. I'm not I'm not sure that I'm not sure although on the front of our book is in there we have a boy and I'm working with her. I actually thought she was going to get to the fact that black boys become disinterested. You know I'm much less interested in school by what is right A.J. But for sure I think yes in that black authors and apparently black people writing books for black children emphasizing black girls I'm not that sick. I'm not.

I don't know. I'm not sure that's true but there is a special problem and and I'm sure that's what she was getting at that black boys at some point particularly because of the way their aggression is handled and not handled are more likely to run into difficulty. And we have to pay attention to that. We have to pay attention to channeling that aggression and to constructive kinds of activities. You know I think I certainly think too well there's a tendency particularly in schools but even among parents sometimes to really crush the aggression of boys and black boys and really in ways that then can become self harmful destructive even promote more aggression. And it's important to channel that aggression the aggression and energy is no more than energy and if you get that energy into successful activities of work and play and learning and so on then they have a chance in the school setting. One of the things that I see in schools very often is that. There

there is a fear of black boys and a projection onto black boys. Even in an age where there are likely to be dangers to view them as dangerous and to try and crushed the danger in the badness out of them rather than to talk with them help them think about how they handle themselves how they manage themselves how they come across to other people when it's appropriate when certain kinds of behaviors are appropriate. It's important to engage them and talk with them and you can promote desirable behavior. And just briefly how important is it to have black teachers and especially black male teachers does it make a difference. Well you know I may make a difference but I think the real important thing is that you have a good and really good teacher. Yeah. You know to to work with the children and I think that say all other things being equal equal it's yes it's important to have black teaches and black male teachers and so on in the environment but dissipating I mean ideally you would have you know teaches of different races and we're very good and work very well you know with children and we're very

positive and and the white teachers of course would have to have minimal or no racism. I think to be of of effective with a lot of them a lot of the students that's right in good schools you see effective white teachers are people who who could relate to the kids and can engage the kids and affected black teachers the same thing is a ability to engage children and care for them and have them view you as somebody who likes them and except that I don't care. You got to go back to the phones call the Good evening welcome to even exchange pretty big. Dr. Colbert. We thank you for a. Very prompt a laugh. I am looking for information they do away with us. Dear African-American male teacher dyspeptic Lee African-American and fellow mentioned the primary and the primary grades and I have not been able to

find any research literature regarding this topic. I picked up your book looking for the question. I have a paper on great information out of bed. Can't you help. Well I think that if a scientist said it is it's not clear that a black male teacher will automatically be good for black boys. We believe on the face of it that it's very good for black boys to be exposed to effective successful black males. But more importantly that they be exposed to successful Effective People. Both white and black males and women. That's what's most important. But it's also helpful. And until we can find the research and it's very difficult to do the research by the way to to to

pull that out and isolated and demonstrate that that's what makes a difference is very difficult. Going It is anecdotal information you know that I read about where a black male teacher came into some situation and I think that person was very effective as he took it and mobilize the kids and it meant something special to these young black boys in particular to have a black male teacher particularly if they came from situations where they didn't see a lot of adult black male role models and some situations. In some communities when you're dealing with 80 percent of single parent households the maid will be a little bit of male hunger. They you know longing you know for relationships with adult males which may be very important but again I don't know how to measure how that gets played out alternately. But but it is a factor and we kind of presume it's a positive one. Right. So if you if we could find effective black male teachers I would be all for really put him in all over the place in the schools because they may have something in addition to be an effective teacher

something additional to add to the tutu the image is an identification as well that black male child and certainly I've seen in schools effective black male teachers be very useful to the to the school as well as in the field as youngsters but there is a is a are a special relation that that is very important that black youngsters have in that situation. Good evening caller you're on the air. Welcome. Hello. Could somebody please address the additional issues around raising a biracial child in Europe Africa and the path to hell. Well I like mine. My feeling is first first of all it is. Some things depend on how that interracial couple a den a Phis that child and if in the first place that is. It's the identification is not always that the child is a black child. Now

society of course and most nearly most cases unless the child is you know very fair something is going to benefit by that child as a black child. So I feel that they're going to have to deal with a lot of things that black children have to deal with so that those parents have to be aware of what those issues are just like if they you know they were you know a black a black couple. On the other hand I know that there are some families who want to give the child a bi racial identity. Which can get confusing. I'm not saying they shouldn't do it but the kid is kind of was saying that by ratio expecting the world to behave I act to them differently than if they were black and that doesn't happen and it gets confusing. But there's also some of these some of these children who actually identify more white and may reject the black. And I've sometimes seen them reject the white part. So it gets it's important that they raise these children. I think

at least to understand that in American society they're not going to be going to be considered most likely to be black children. You know one with Dr. James Coburn Dr. Alvin Poussaint the authors of raising black children. When we return. You know. I don't know. No.

Welcome back to the exchange I'm gene that makes me in for Kojo Nnamdi and we are talking about raising black children with two people who really know how to do that Dr. James Comer Dr. Alvin Poussaint. And we are going to go right back to the phones because if I get one question then we'll be off and running. Caller Good evening welcome. Go ahead please. Maybe I get to get a question in the callers like their caller are you there. Yes go ahead please. A couple comments. First I'd like to thank Mr. Farr for a show that was done from about five years ago where you were talking about preventing black children with black images and storybooks and how it has helped my niece tremendously if like me she gets coloring books now. Nobody is quite and how to develop to the core self-worth. Secondly about Dr Cromer I think it is that something about go to go to school with the disarming attitude about

suggesting curriculum well when white parents go to the school board meetings and book for that there they shout and they get what they want and I think black parents should do be more vigorous and more intimidating to school board to get black children in the curriculum that we need because I think that segregation desegregation hurt us because if we had separate schools at least up until high school you could build a core. Self identification at that word and in the school early on that you would have a core to work with. Maybe one when you when you enter grade tell me that there is no question that the more it is the problem and the issue on the other hand back in those schools we had a good car but we couldn't get any jobs and we couldn't vote and we had all kinds of limits that were there because we were a part of the economic and social mainstream and so that's why we had to desegregate.

Even though there was something lost in the process. And I you know I believe that that there is still the need to create the economic opportunities that will break open the system. Let me respond to the other point. When I say that you you go and disarm and you antagonize in a way that causes people to fight back and reject and resist. That doesn't mean that if they don't accept what you're saying that you don't. Move it up and you do whatever you have to do then to make it happen. But there's no sense killing a fly with a canon from the beginning when you can do it with a fly swatter. Good evening caller you're on the air. You know I think I'm explaining what the meeting. Potential deficiency it won't be because a lot of that is big data around now being attributed to a lot of young hot learners and I'd like to know if they can explain it and

why it is something that is so easily be able to yeah but taught my point. Attention Deficit Disorder. You haven't answered it often. That's a misdiagnosis and you have reason to be concerned about it. What is its appeal is really the ability to attend to what you want to do. Well well it's attention I mean it kind of what it means it's attention deficit disorder. They think kids who are a little bit hyper kinetic have a short attention span and some of them can't sit still. So therefore I get trouble being focused then and learning and so on but the problem is as Jim suggested is that a lot of children get thrown into that category. You know Attention Deficit Disorder or hyper kinetic because they have conduct disturbances or they they misbehave or they have learning differences or disabilities that could be attended to so that they kind of frequently shoved aside and lumped in this category attempting deficit or disorder because it sounds like medical and

everything's OK you know and then frequently they they will treat many of these children and some of them do need it if the diagnosis is correct and looked at. With with certain medical medications that might help them to become more focused The trouble is is that frequently they're not properly diagnosed and so on and it becomes this kind of a basket you know waste paper basket diagnosis and that put a lot of these kids sometimes into special education classes. And I guess one of the questions she's asking is why too is frequently it's a black male heroes who were put into this category usually and sometimes it is because it teaches afraid of their aggression and it's a way to not have been in there as a way of like labeling them and saying well this kid has a problem which takes the onus off of me in terms of reaching that child and being a good teacher. When you create good schools the amount of medication used for behavior are very low.

I'd like to change the subject just a little bit and sort of put on front street something we talk about kind of on the side streets which is that black and white parents deal with their children differently. We will see. We will be in a store and hear a white child speaking very forcefully and forthrightly to their parents not necessarily misbehaving but sort of like a little adult. And we all say my mama never let me talk to her like that. And the other issue that I really want to ask you about specifically this is kind of my question for the evening is spiking because I can't you know all of the white people I know just about say oh no you hit them it teaches them violence you can't do that. And the black people I know say a little. It's back on the behind never hurt anybody. Where do you gentleman psychiatrists doctors come down on spanking. Well if you spray it out of care love appreciation when you're not out of control. And as guidance is calling their attention to something. You don't necessarily create a problem on the other hand if you're a caring.

Guiding parent who talks to children raises question with them help them examine their behavior they don't need spring for the most part. My mother talked and guided and helped us understand and she said go get this witch and bring it in right. And if you do that you see when you're not out of control then there's not necessarily a problem although most so you don't. You really don't need aid here that mom when you're. Not there there's a risk to it and the risk to it of if you get any group of parents in a room 10 parents and you see and you'd say Do you spank your child and 10 hands will go up when you go down of the room and you say what do you do. You get extremes you know got some people say well maybe every six months I whack my kid on the behind and then you get to one parent who says Well every day I hit my kid with this which was not right. And then some of them telling they hit the kid with the switch or the awning caught on general principle just

to keep a behavior so that that that you we have to be careful I think the issue of spanking about black community has to be debated you know because there is evidence that using a lot of physical force and corporal punishment on children can be damaging and might even encourage them to be violent toward others. But when you spank when you're out of control and when you're frustrated. What's the message that you send to your child and that that is the way you should be quite sure and you can check the child on the playground when something happens rather than working things out talking it over and negotiating. He's poppin somebody. And that can then lead to other parents of this absolutely right there looking to their parents as models on how to cope with the world. And if every time the parents get out of control they get whacked all around the place and it's reasonable in the playground when they get out of control or have a conflict the first thing they think about is they could should beat up the other kid when they become teenagers the first thing they think about is a should blow him away.

And where do you think spousal abuse and the shooting I will just briefly say I recall recently having heard your colleague Dr. Orlando Patterson say that a lot of the violence in the black community is the result of single black women having raised their children violently and teaching their boys to be violent that the Pattison Yes but since he's not here we won't ever take the reaction was that the audience would have had a lot of. Yes it is OK to go back to the book and call it welcome to even exchange my question about when you would pay any attention. I'm only a young boy. How do you deal with that problem. Well how do you get them open. Well the men don't know the medical. You want to have a correct diagnosis first of all to know whether you're dealing with that or not and in some cases some medication might be indicated. But you help young people focus and you said it you help them focus. And each year you try and tolerate some of the activity

and you have to just hang in there it's a tough job as you have. An active child even at the upper limits of activity within a reasonable range. It is tough keeping up with such children but you have to hang in there with them and keep them under control and keep them focused and achieving goals and that's about all you can really get to you can play with them. Games with them reading to you know a lot of things where you exercise and some control over their behavior and sticking with them and holding them in too to activity you see it almost sounds wonderful if you're in the kind of how home where you can do that but when you're a single parent you have three children to work to make sure that you know that at that age you and I don't think the temps to that is true that many parents single parents who overwhelm a lot of children that don't have enough support they don't have enough help and in fact that's one of the things that we feel is needed in every way is support for for for families in general but in particular single parent

families for childcare. Women helping each other early child care programs like parents as teachers with people come into the homes and if we could bring back the extended family where we had all kinds of relatives coming in and helping the parent that would just be wonderful. Good evening caller welcome to evenly exchange. Good duty. Thank Dr. Poussaint for you then. All right. We'll be back. Sixty three interesting help for the black community in Mississippi marching cetera et cetera. How do you train that totally black family. Go on. We'll show you how to do. The question is how do I do this. How do you sustain your interest in the black family we are just such an interesting people you can't help but be interested in us as well you know there is something I I think feels the same way. There is something very very fascinating. And

interesting besides just the racism about our heritage and experiences. You know as black families and as black people all the different levels of things that we have to cope with the nuances the experiences in your family with a brother. Right and you had different different attitudes you know things so my father was sometimes when he got upset nomic Jolie would sit down and tell me don't you have to trust a white person you know just things that had to do with with with like a negative experience. But also all of the positive things so I think it's I mean you you had you a den of five become opposite of what you you. You come from and hopefully I think one of the things is that I think that sometimes society is working on you to reject it. From where you come from and that you have to fight and you know struggle against that and then appreciate and move you know move beyond and make that a strength in terms of your development but so it doesn't take anything like real special

interest except that I feel that we have to do battle here and that if we're going to hope to eliminate racism we have to continue to do battle and you have to do battle from this front that even call a welcome to even exchange call you an even exchange. Yes we're not going to answer that. Hello call you're on even it's day. Oh thank you. I'm calling to talk about Iraq. I flat out don't the colors. Black brow and often they're coming back at all of us but I want to tell them that they have that. How do you address that. Thank you thank you. You mean when they're when they're not black by a color I guess she said Me Very few of us are black by color so. Well you point out to them that black when we say black we're really talking about a group and that you know we can also point out that the groups called African-American

and or Afro-American whatever your preference but you point out that we're talking about a group as opposed to an actual color. Yeah and sometimes that's difficult I mean it is because it is part of society's problem you know because you kids will sometimes be very literal. Ryan you say you're black and he said but no I'm brown and so on so as not as that is it is yellow or whatever you know. So they're literal and I think sometimes it takes oh it's over time so that they really begin to develop and understand that it's more of a concept in terms of a group and a particular group's experience in the United States and how race was defined here in the United States for that group. You know that was laid up right and they won't understand concepts early you just say it. And eventually they will begin and over time they may be going to school it in and and make the differences and then even. Raise questions

about whether so and so is white or black hearted a. And so is she is she black. Why go well just what because now particularly with the the ethnic mix in the United States with with Latinos and Hispanics and and Indians from all around the eight that you walk down the street and yes it's not so easy to say I wasn't really interested in the we're going to try to get in one more quick question caller please be very brief and gentle Alessi be very brief in your response. Yeah quit trying to interfere. You know the impression the impression and the impact of your experience you are working from a Euro centric perspective for our children. Thank you very much. They're pointing at each other. I don't here it wasn't like this. She asked about the impact of European spirituality on black children. European spirituality. I don't know quite what they mean if she means you European European culture. Well a religion that you know at first until you well

there's no particular European religion that she's talking about Christianity but they also Judaism and as Muslims and so on which was you know Europe I really think fighting back that needs into that diet what she's. I think if there's only that impact a lot of European culture has been filled with racism and white supremacy. And then Jesus has been white and all of the the pope and all the highrise trial why the Saints are you know you can save us but if you want you we can get into the image of God in the Vatican Christianity and what it's meant but I think that's one of the problems now. There's too much of an emphasis on your European history you have to bring in other groups and that's importance of exposing them to your own culture. Early I will be right back. Will it stay with us.