We the People; DPI/Beloit College

The one room school when the 20th century began school rooms across Wisconsin looked pretty much like this. The three R's pot belly stove McGuffey Readers those were the ingredients of a basic education. But as we approach the 21st century it's a one world school instead of a one room school. Cyber has replaced cipher So who is best prepared to lead Wisconsin schools into the next century. The candidates for state superintendent of schools answer you know are we the people debate next. We the People Wisconsin the citizens report card is sponsored by Blue Cross and Blue Shield United of Wisconsin Wisconsin Power and Light Foundation Wisconsin Education Association Council Miller Brewing Company AT&T. And the Pew Center for civic journalism Washington D.C.. We the People Wisconsin citizens report card. Tonight citizens evaluate the candidates for state school superintendent. Asking the questions they want. John Benson and Linda Kraft to answer part of the vision that I have and we at

the department have for the next four years includes helping districts develop a policy of zero tolerance for students who bring weapons to school and bring drugs to school and who engage in physical violence. Frankly it must and. I don't want our kids to be really prepared to go on to be healthy happy citizens I want to have a Public Instruction to be seen. Definitely not is the mandate please. But as a service organization that's helping to promote the best ideas in education. On April 1st voters will decide which of these two candidates they want to help change education in our state. Live from the campus of Beloit College. It's the we the people state school superintendent debate. Good evening everyone I'm Katie WIC TV and I'm Dave Iverson of Wisconsin Public Television. Now for the past couple of weeks in preparation for this evening's debate we've been listening to people around our state talk about what their priorities are for our schools and what they'd like to see the

next state superintendent do about them. We've listened in on conversations at places like home bakery in Stoughton where citizens talked about making sure a high school diploma really means something at Milwaukee Washington High School where students and parents stressed the importance of being positive and the need for parental involvement in education and in Osh Kosh where a citizen group focused on the need for high standards in our schools and preparing students for the 21st century workplace. Now that's some of what we've been hearing but the question of course is what can the state Department of Public Instruction actually do about those priorities. And what does the Department of Public Instruction actually do. Here's a short background or to answer just that question. The Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction is in a government building called Jeffrey the DNR is right next door. Pop quiz. Which department is bigger. Answer the DNR. It has over 20 700 workers deep

EIA 614. Still those workers cover the fourth and fifth floors and parts of two others are going to licensing Marty speaking VBI issues about 24000 licenses a year to teachers and other school staff. And does the paperwork for criminal background checks on all of them. Some applicants need to be fingerprinted. We provide the best thanks to them we actually have. Our own. Name and stats imprinted on it so the FBI will not accept cards from us if they come like if it's us pass a police department. Licensing also reviews more than 30 teacher education programs for compliance with state standards it is a very important function and we're constantly seeking new ways to work with universities and colleges to prepare teachers even more effectively once in the classroom helps teachers with more than a hundred agency publications and personal support pole Sandrock works on foreign language. Most districts have in place something very solid at the high school level and they're saying what we put in place in

middle school. Should we be doing something at the elementary level. And so it's talking about why they should. And how they could other consultants help school districts meet regulations that come with tens of millions of dollars in federal and state funding for students with special needs. They also problem solve. Here's a student that we have in our district we aren't sure what to do and districts will call and say to us you know give us some ideas like that but even the system may help you. DP I workers also make sure school districts follow anti-discrimination laws. Others make sure about a half a million students get a daily school lunch. The agency dishes out 20 million dollars worth of food each year. We're talking billions of dollars but the biggest ticket item handled by DTI is state aid. More than four billion dollars of it. About a dozen soldiers work with all four hundred twenty seven school districts to make sure they get their fair share. A lot of my job is phone consultation and teaching

helping them understand where they need to account for their expenditures. TBI also runs two schools for students with severe hearing and vision impairments. It even helps run your public library administers federal and state funding to 370 public libraries and offers them technical help all in the name of lifelong learning. But Decker's background report on what the Department of Public Instruction. Now let's meet the people who would like to lead that state agency for the next four years starting with the incumbent Superintendent John Benson who has held that job for the past four years superintendents and were happy to have you here in Iowa. And his challenger Linda Krause the same challenger he had four years ago is back for a return run. The 27 year old 27 year veteran of the Horton Hill schools were happy to have you here as well. Thank you Dave. Tonight the citizens will be asking the questions. Each candidate will have one minute to answer and then a follow up is needed. The candidates will have 30 seconds apiece to clarify their position.

All right so let's get started we're going to go right away now to a question from Mr. David Calabria of Osh Kosh where you determine the order of our question answering to start us out by a toss of the coin. So Linda Cross will get the first opportunity to answer your question. Go ahead please. OK. For most of the last century employers expected to turn out students who were punctual obedient and good at repetitive tests. Now employers are looking for flexibility thoughtfulness and innovation. What must be changed about schooling to prepare students for that to find their way in the 21st century marketplace lithographs. Well I believe one of the important things that we need to do with our students is give them as much opportunity as possible give them the greatest variety of educational options as we can so that they can prepare themselves to the best of our their ability to maximize their potential. And we want to make sure that our students do go out prepared in technology for example they're going to need technology and most of their jobs in fact I can't think of a job where they won't be needing technology.

The apprenticeship programs are wonderful opportunities for some of the students to try out a particular profession occupation and go out into the workplace with some additional skills that they might not have had. It's an opportunity for students who are often very bright. But just aren't interested in the regular academic program to do well. We need to teach our children to be critical thinkers. We need to teach our children to work in teams because out in the workplace that's how we do our work now. I'm proud that during this term in office we were able to secure a 27 million dollar grant from the federal government to help our state with school work. We're on the cutting edge of that we need more of our young people while they're juniors and seniors in high school out in the workplace in a youth apprenticeship program or in a co-op program. We're growing that in Wisconsin. We want to grow it faster we want to develop new partnerships with business so that we can have more job slots for them. We need to involve the parents

more and particularly at younger ages to help them with career counseling. Something that we don't do as well as we should in our schools. We need to help people to understand that there is another college system. Nothing against Beloit blights a fine college as is the university system but more and more of our kids need to go directly from my school into the technical college system. Let me ask Mr. Claiborne if that speaks to the heart of your question which really is about employers needing a different kind of kid than they might have a century ago or even 40 or 50 years ago. And of both. Candidates mention things that are going on and I'm more interested in what needs to be changed about the present ways cooling is done in order to see what you can change. Let's go in reverse order here 30 seconds from each of them will move on to our next question one of the first times when the earth changes sort of the centerpiece of my campaign which is that we have to help our communities develop a zero tolerance policy for children who do not function well in school who bring weapons and drugs and who engage in physical violence. That has to end.

A second very important initiative of ours is that we have to involve the parents more in the schooling of their children because too many times the parents drop their children off at the schoolhouse door and maybe we've led them to think that was OK and it's not we have to engage them more fully in the education of their children. Spencer thank you Miss Cross. We have to have higher standards I believe in really high standards which will prepare our students more thoroughly for the workplace or for any type of occupation that they might have to be healthy happy citizens. I want to make sure that as a business person myself that I don't see too often students who come to me who really aren't prepared with the attitude or with the qualifications that would make a good employee. So I believe that high standards are the thing. Unfortunately Mr. Benson has lowered standards by lowering the GED and that to me is absolutely an attack on employers in a sense it's a way of saying to the employers you know. These students are as good as the others who've gone through a high school program and I think

that's a deception. I don't think that's preparing them well. We've got to have high standards for everyone. If you must cross let's not let this topic go just yet though because this was one of the main issues that came up in our coffee house meetings in Osh Kosh and Stoughton and Milwaukee. So let's take a look now at what those people had to say. Job preparedness. I came from Minneapolis where they have parenting classes starting from when they're infants and it was run by the school district and I came to this community and there isn't that kind of support and most of the parents I know they feel that it's not that important in changing the way they happen doubtful and hopeless feelings for their children. If school expectations are here and the parents don't give a hoot it's very difficult to teach a child. It is a it takes a partnership. Well can you do to your students and parents motivated to coming to school be more active in the challenge and go from there.

I believe we have participants here who were part of those coffee houses and raised concerns about Job Readiness. And you are Nancy Burnett who made those some of those comments what is your concern. Well my concern is probably a little more global than that. I am concerned because life has changed. We no longer live in a Beaver Cleaver world. We have gangs we have drugs. We have apathetic students apathetic parents. I want to know specifically what sort of things you would do to bring our schools more in line the way life is not the way we look like was but the way we want life to be. Mr. Bensonhurst First we need to talk about the issue of gangs and violence in the rest of the conditions that children live in in our communities. Something that I have talked about throughout this campaign and as a matter of fact throughout this term in office and have worked diligently with the legislature to bring about change in the laws so that they would have more

flexibility at the local school district level to deal with children who are violent because teachers can't teach in the chaotic classroom and children who come to school wanting to learn with strong support from parents have a hard time learning in that chaotic violent classroom. I don't want to throw them out on the street but I want us to remove them from the regular school when that condition exists and find alternatives for them. And then I want us to work together the families the schools and the communities to develop what I call a common core of values like respect responsibility honesty in the Golden Rule. Because those are values that every single child should learn and unfortunately too many children aren't learning them from the places that we did which was from our home from our church synagogue and from the neighborhood under cross. I agree with you. We have to deal with the schools as they are today and the schools have changed a great deal. And I'm a classroom teacher I have been for 27 years one of the things that I've said about Mr. Benson is that he was only for two years a teacher

altogether and has not been a teacher since John F. Kennedy was president of the United States. And I've been I was a sophomore in high school at that time and I've been teaching for 27 years. I think teachers need to be empowered. Need to be given more control of their classrooms so we can have more manageable safe schools. I believe that we have to empower our parents because our parents need to feel that they are an integral part of their schools. And it's when the parents feel that they are a part of the schools that they do participate more now. Granted not everybody is going to participate and granted that there are some problems that exist for example in Milwaukee if you bus students to try to give them a better education then all of a sudden Oftentimes parents can't attend parent teacher conferences because they're so far away. So we want to find the best education we can for all of our students and safe schools. And public college. And I think your ideas are really great and I I just came out of student teaching and I believe that we need to teach the children how to critically think.

But how do you bring that on line with standardized testing which does not test how kids critically think. And that also brings up some of what our first question asked about getting kids ready for the next century so critical thinking as opposed to standardized testing. Linda Cross goes first in this room. Well certainly critical thinking is very important but you do have to have a basis on which to think critically. So I've said that we need to set very high standards rigorous standards that were stated specific and clear that are knowledge based more than process based and then ones that we will test on. Now you're talking about wanting to have our students think. I certainly want them to think I'm not happy with them just memorizing. But like you say a student has to be able to have basic knowledge for example if in English I expect my students to be able to handle the writing process. First they have to have knowledge of sentence structure and grammar and parts of speech or they can't write. And we want them to go on then and be able to think critically.

We want them to be able to. Deal with real life problems because real life problems are judge mental problems but we have to be able to do both and so I'm saying we can test also in addition to standardized tests we can test also on some performance based. Well one thing we could do as teachers is to have students do a live debate to see about their thinking skills that might be one thing we could do but I would point out that we have lofty goals and we have high standards and we want them to be high we want all children to succeed at high levels. But no one has ever claimed and I certainly don't and I'm sure you don't as a prospective or a future teacher that everything that you will teach your children will be measured by a standardized test of some kind. There are other ways that we measure the progress and the proficiency levels of our children and much of that is done in the classroom by the classroom teacher with the students that he or she is teaching. So I would encourage you as a prospective teacher to realize and I'm sure you

do that standardized testing is one means of measuring proficiency but there are many others. And so that's a direction that I think you need to pursue. All right we have a question over here from a young woman also Bill a college student quicksand if you will place but and someone who came out of the walky public schools go ahead what's your question. I would like to know your views on school choice and the voucher system. Seen that it's been really big in the news lately. All right school choice John Benson first. I've made my position very clear on private religious education and the other candidate and I are very very different. She holds the view that we want to tax she wants to tax the citizens of our state to pay for private religious education I don't know if she has any idea what that would cost. We're talking about where you pick the numbers there are 150000 private school children today in Wisconsin. One hundred fifty times the average per pupil state aid payment to public schools of thirty six hundred would be five hundred

fifty million dollars annually or if you use the number that we're sending to Milwaukee to the private non-religious schools of forty four hundred dollars a child that would cost the taxpayers 660 million. That's two thirds of a billion dollars annually we can't afford both systems. The courts have consistently ruled that it's against our state constitution and our Federal Constitution to tax the citizens to pay for private religious education. I have stood firm on that and will continue if the courts change their mind I'll change mine. But the cross Yes I'm a public school teacher of 27 years always in the public schools and I believe very much in our public schools but I also believe very much in empowering the parents. I really believe that it's absolutely crucial that our parents have a choice as to what school system their kids are in if they feel shackled to one system that they cannot afford to leave they can't afford to move away to make a choice through their financial dollars. I don't think that's fair. There are a

lot of parents who cannot afford to move as parents can to come to our Horton vil system. So I believe in choice I believe in choice not only to empower the teachers but also to empower the parents excuse me but also because of the fact that I believe strongly in competition we have the number one university in the system in the world which does have competition. We don't yet have the number one K through 12 system and we don't have competition there I believe competition will improve life for everyone improve all of our schools. And I want to see competition for our kids. But. Cross the job you're running for is after all Department of Public Instruction not apartment a private and struck it depends on how you I guess the question I want to ask you is. Tell me why private school choice is good for public schools you mention competition but given the money that John Benson was describing how does taking that money away from public schools benefit them. Well one of the things is this. Four years ago in Appleton there

was the primary election time a referendum on whether to build another school a third high school. They went on to do that but I was told that there were enough seats in the private schools in Appleton to accommodate those students. So in that particular case it would have been much more cost effective financially beneficial to the taxpayers not to build another building but simply to go with a choice program. Now it depends on how you define public. OK. Public means everyone the general public. What I want to do is allow parents who are taxpayers to take their dollars to the school that they want to take them to for their children. OK that's what I believe in. All right thank you. A quick response from John. Place that Katie's got another question the other quick is that as the state superintendent elected to a constitutional office in Wisconsin I took an oath just before I walked into that office four years ago. That said I John Benson promise to uphold the

Constitution of this state and of this country. The courts have consistently ruled that our constitutions do not allow to tax the citizens for religious education period. I'm I'm I'm very supportive of private religious schools. They're wonderful institutions just like our public schools are but we can't tax citizens to pay for religion at the elementary middle and high school level. The courts have said so. All right we have a question over here ma'am which is stand face and introduce yourself. Hi I'm Janet Carr. And my question has to do with your budget. Actually I'm back in the last race for Superintendent when the governor attempted to do away with the department and turned it into a cabinet type position. Your budget was cut by a lot. And now there are several proposals in his budget to transfer several programs out of the DPRK. Some of those programs involve the school to work employees. Some of them involve the alcohol and other drug abuse

programs. The after school and summer school programs not only involves removing employees in and involves removing money out of your budget and I guess what I'm asking. Well first I should probably say this money amounts to over 11 million dollars. That's a big slice out of your budget. Do you think that removing these positions would streamline your office or do you think it would hamper your jobs. Just about my first. Well thank you for the question. First I want to say that in spite of the cuts from the last bi annual budget. We are on daunted at the department. I am as your state superintendent. The glass is half full. We're going forward to provide service to school districts as best we can and we do that pretty well that's our primary function. We are troubled by the current by an evil budget that the governor has submitted to the legislature and we'll try our best and we need the help of citizens everywhere to stop the transfer of school to work from the Department of Public Instruction to the

Department of Workforce Development. School to work is clearly an educational initiative. It's not a jobs initiative. And anyone who knows anything about school the work knows that it starts with little children it's about the curriculum. In fact the flagship of the school the word is curriculum It's not use the printer Shephard co-op programs are very important but there's much more to it than that it's about our curriculum. It's about our children and their future. And that program clearly belongs in the Department of Public Instruction not in some other agency. I'm anxious to hear what Lynn the cross has to say about that transfer because I think that's an important question for the citizens of our state to know before they go to the polls and vote. It's crass. Well I believe that first of all in regards to the budget all state agencies took a 10 percent across the board budget cut it was called the Slim-Fast diet which the governor gave my husband who's out in the audience as administrator for Division of Motor Vehicles for the state of Wisconsin. They took that kind of a

cut as well. So one of the things that we always have to be concerned about is getting the best education for our students with the dollars that our taxpayers can afford. And we want to have the best Department of Public Instruction to serve to be a service organization to our schools to our teachers to help give the best education and the largest number of job opportunities and work opportunities for the students. And that's what that's what this is all about in my opinion. Now I'm not sure that it's absolutely necessary to keep the school to work program within the public. The Department of Public Instruction in order to make it an effective program. There are many ways of looking at this. We need to make sure. Thank you watching. Linda cross as you mentioned. Ms Parr the budget has taken big cuts and in your fight over the existence of

which the governor it has no doubt had an effect on your relationship with the governor if you were elected re-elected Mr. Pence and how would you work with the head of the state. Well I'm working with the governor right now on a number of issues and have during the four years that I've been in this job. We work together to bring about the opportunity for the state superintendent to grant waivers to school boards for example. That was bipartisan the governor supported that and helped us with it. We created a program to better serve our littlest children and our poorest little children in school districts all over the state from Glidden to Laon to disappear ear to Milwaukee to right here in the Lloyd Robinson elementary school is involved in the student program for little children kindergarten first grade that's just wonderful with bipartisan support. I I don't mind sharing with you I think you know this that on the issue of the Constitution and your right as citizens I drew the line and said I believe that law that was introduced and passed and signed by the governor is unconstitutional. We took at the court. The court ruled as you know

seven to zero two of the justices appointees of the governor. So it's unconstitutional. We were right. I stood up for the citizens of our state I'm proud of having done that. For the same reason I gave before I. I swore to uphold the Constitution. Went across to agree with John Benson that the governor was wrong about that. Do you agree with what the Supreme Court ruled. I agree. I think it's really important as a teacher I just think it's really important that the people of Wisconsin can choose their superintendent of public instruction as well as other important officials. I think that the more the people are allowed to choose their government officials the more confidence they have in their government the more likely they are to be behind their government just as parents choosing the school for their child makes it much more likely that they will be really behind the education that's given in that school for their children. And what I believe is this that. I as a Superintendent of Public Instruction recognize that the superintendent doesn't do the job

all by himself that the superintendent needs to work in partnership with the legislature and with the governor Governor and that people have been really upset in the last four years about the fact that Mr Benson because of his turf fight because he hasn't been able to get along has spent probably 80 percent of his time in that turf war and only 20 percent advancing the good of the kids that's what we need to get on with since we're talking about politics and education we have a question here to follow that up. I Marie Walsh-Smith and I have a question. I feel that education should not be politically tied to political parties. Would you support this in future races. And why do you think this is not been done in this race or past races. Well first of all I would disagree that it hasn't been done in this race in my opinion. I guess I'm a 27 year teacher. I've devoted my entire adult life to trying to do the best I can for my students and I want to keep politics out of

education as much as possible. This is the reason that our state has decided that this is a non partisan election that this position is nonpartisan. I don't care you don't care whether our parents are Democrats or Republicans or whether they choose not to have any political party at all. They're the parents of our kids. We want to get the best education we can for those kids. And I believe that this I know this is a nonpartisan election. I believe we are conducting it in a nonpartisan way. And I would continue to do so. I'm not a Republican. I'm not a Democrat. I've never belonged to any political party ever in my life. I'm not necessarily proud of that I think that it's one way for citizens to practice their citizenship. But I'm proud to share with the citizens of our state tonight that I do have bipartisan support in my bid for re-election. A number of Republican

legislators have endorsed my re-election bid. A number of Democratic legislators have endorsed my re-election bid I'm proud of that. This is an independent office this is an office that is to be an advocate for children and to use the bully pulpit to try as best as I can or whoever is in this office to work with legislators of both parties and with the governor whoever that may be for equity for our children equity in everything that we do in so far as the curriculum instruction funding and the whole list with regards to what schooling is about. That's my job. That's what I try my best to do. Let me follow up on that on one point about what you just said Mr. Bentsen about independence and the independence of the office your campaign literature refers to you as the independent voice. How are you going to be independent from one of your largest contributors. The teachers union. I am independent from all of my contributors I have fifteen hundred two thousand individual citizens from all over the state who are contributing to my campaign. I have organized labor

contributing to my campaign it's the way for regular people to participate in the political process. But my guess my question is from Ensign is give us an example then if you would how you are how you differ from the teachers union or the teachers union and I agree on a lot of things we agree on smaller class sizes especially for little children we agree on the one question is an example of how you define We have disagreed on a number of things during this four years in office for example give me a share. I decided to do background checks on all people who apply for a license. And then I said to the teachers and I have to raise your fees in order to pay for that. They didn't necessarily like that. I changed the substitute teacher rule so that people who have a baccalaureate degree but who are not trained to be teachers could serve as substitute teachers. They didn't necessarily like that. They have a legislative proposal right now that would create a separate board to regulate teacher licensing and teacher revocation. I disagree with that. I want that to continue to be under the jurisdiction of the elected state superintendent and I will fight for that cause so we've disagreed on many

things we agree on far more and I'm proud to say that I represent the classroom teachers and the support staff of schools all over the state. I would think we would want a state superintendent who works with the educational community. Thank you. Let's cross let me address the flip side of that coin. You have been openly critical about the teachers union but if you were elected to this post you would need to work with them. How would you go about doing that certainly. One of the qualifications and one of the characteristics of teachers in my mind is to work well with all of the people involved in education the children the parents other teachers administrators the business community and so on. I would work with the teachers union for the best efforts that we can find for our kids. I have worked I have worked with Dick Collins the head of the teachers union. I was on the governor's education commission and I said to him you know we are going to work

well together because we're here because we were chosen to do this for the good of our students. And that's all that's important. Everyone involved in education has to work together for the betterment of the kids. And if they're not doing that then there's something terribly wrong but that's what I want to do and that's what I will do. Thank you let me go back a minute because I don't think you answered my Reese question to her satisfaction so I'm going to let her follow up real quickly here. OK Mr. Berenson was asked about his political contributions from the teachers union. My question is Is Mrs. Thompson helping you manage your campaign and how does that not show a political tie. Well let me say as I said four years ago that I would not have asked Sue Ann Thompson to be a part of my campaign if it weren't for the fact that she's a real classroom teacher. Every day she is in the classroom she's a teacher first and first lady second and she does both jobs

wonderfully when she's doing them. So I would not have chosen her if she were just a first lady but she's a teacher and that's important to me. So it's not a it wasn't a political choice. It was the choice of me choosing a friend who's a teacher who I respect. All right we have a question over on the side. Go ahead please. My name is George tippler. But I believe both of you have been quoted as saying that you want to empower the parents as much as is possible through choices. Would you please identify specifically the types of choices you would want to pursue. So as to give parents as much choice as possible. All right we've talked some about school choice and Procul choice but you're really referring to more specific things in the everyday classroom. All the choices poacher's the public school private school within district alternatives is many different choices as you can identify that you would be pursuing. And so as to give parents the choice to which you both seem to

be addressing. OK we've gone over some of the where the private school argument but on additional choices that you would try to give parents across first certainly specifically I would allow parents the choice of home schooling. I believe that it's the parent's right to make the determination of how their child is schooled. And if they choose homeschooling then I'm behind them and I will certainly support that. If a parent chooses a charter school would like to try a type of public school. That is a break them old school that doesn't have to follow all of the rules and regulations what we've often called 20 standards. This is a way of giving the parents a choice and it empowers the teachers as well to try new and creative ideas which they might not have been able to do under the old system with some of the hindrances that were there. I believe in allowing parents a choice if they want to send their child to a private school. As far as parochial schools goes Judge Higginbotham has ruled and has

said it's unconstitutional as Superintendent of Public Instruction I certainly would follow the law so for the time being this question is moot. Well could I respond first for public school choice. I want to give the parents of our state the opportunity to choose from among the public schools I think that's something that's long overdue in our state that's in our agency's budget that we've given to the governor. I believe there is support in our legislature for that and I'm hoping that this is the legislative session when we accomplish that. I'm the state superintendent who sought funding from Washington to help us with charter schools because I believe that charter schools is an is a direction that we should move in some although I don't want to abandon the public school system as we know what because we really have a wonderful school system. As I go out and visit schools which I have done extensively all over this state being with children being with parents of being with the administration in the board and with the business community I can't find a public school that says to me Mr. Superintendent Could you close this

school district for us because this is no good. It's the school down the road that's no good in the minds of most people they like their schools and it is a good system and we ought to keep it. But we're trying to grow some charter schools but I don't want to go too fast it's an experiment and parents have a chance to be involved in the charter school movement. One issue that I would say was perhaps the number one issue in our coffee house meetings has not yet come up tonight and that is parental involvement. It came up at all three meetings let's take a look now at what people had to say. We're waiting a bit to get that tape queued up and why don't we go to that as soon as we're ready in the meantime though. We there's a fair amount of whispering going on in the audience that I want to tap into. So stand up if you would place people are saying that you're not specific enough specifically about this I guess this question of parental involvement in parts of go ahead. Exactly. They were talking in generalities about parental involvement

and responsibility parental responsibility. I'm a former teacher school board member now and I know responsibility is a key word I'd like three specific things that you would do to enhance responsibility. All right John Vincent first foreign ability of parents with regard to their children and the children's schooling or the role of parents in the school in the school. Well let me try. I don't have this power and authority as state superintendent but if I did I might want one mandate and if I could it would be that there would be a PTA in every single school house with parents and teachers and the principal and others actively involved in it as a state superintendent with the help from our staff we have helped districts create what we call family centers and school houses. That's a specific as I can be where we want every school house to have a family center in it a place where parents come grandparents come and other volunteers to help the teachers. OK can I follow up with that you can go ahead to student responsibility how would you build student responsibility.

So parents are directly with the students through parents and directly with us. Well I think we need to say to parents look we have a truancy problem and some school districts. Who is responsible for seeing to it the children come to school every day. It's the parents I think we need to do some parenting skill development through the school with parents teaching them to be better parents. It's the parents responsibility to see to it that children are in school. I would say we ought to ask the parents to be sure that from birth they read to their little children take them to the public library and begin to model for them that you as a parent value learning and education so they see it first hand through their parent. All right the challenge on the cross is three specific ideas about parental involvement and also how to encourage student responsibility. Well in regard to parental responsibility I too believe that it is a responsibility of the parent to make sure that their student is in school. And I have already put forth a plan that's called Learn fair f a r.

Now we've already got learn fair f a r e and that of course has told parents welfare parents that they're responsible to get their child to school on a regular basis. If they don't then some of their welfare check is taken away held back. I'm saying that we don't want to just discriminate against those parents that society needs to say that all of our parents are responsible for getting their kids to school. So learn fair would mean that the dependent child tax credit the 50 dollars would be withheld if kids are not. In school. I would make sure also that our parents are involved more in our schools. I would make sure. Yes I would make sure that our parents know first of all that we're paying attention to them. Right now our parents are saying we want high specific standards we don't want the kinds of standards that are squishy the DPMI has been putting out we want to know and we can't see it yet where the kids can

learn to read and they'll come out learning to write and to do basic math and then go on to do other things. I'm sorry we've run out of time they said all right. We have a gentleman from Stoughton who was no answer and my name is Mike Clay and I reside in the state of Wisconsin. It's nice to know that I have both of your attention and I'm concerned that if you get in office Linda will I still have your attention I know I have. Johns No no you've had my attention for four years when you've called me up a lot of times I understand I consider both of your friends specifically though a lot of times mind ideas and notions of parental involvement do not coincide with the educators. I sometimes have been called threatening and intimidating. I'm sorry about that and I'm trying to moderate my my approach to things but I'd like to know you have a question. I don't know how how you're going to implement and encourage school districts to. Enhance parental involvement and to to model at the Department of Public

Instruction how that looks. Thank you. Well I want the Department of Public Instruction to be much more of a service organization. I want them to involve the parents more than than they ever have. I think it's just so important like I said I'm a 27 year teacher and I know how important it is to have our parents involved. We don't want to just give lip service to the fact that it's important to have parents involved. We want them involved like this that we've got to pay attention to them. And I think all too often over the years we have not paid attention to the parents the parents of said these are the standards that we believe in these are the things we believe in and the educators have said oh no you really don't want this. We know better. You know that's not showing respect for our parents. That's not bringing them in in the first draft of the DP standards this year with so much of the education jargon in it that does not bring confidence to parents that does not bring them the warm fuzzy feeling that they belong on. It keeps pushing them away it keeps saying to them we really don't want you I mean even if maybe we

say we do. We really don't. Because we're putting in hear language that says YOU DOn't YOU DOn't UNDERSTAND. Stay away. Thank you John. Did you hear Linda Frost saying that your soft squishy standards as she calls them are pushing parents away. Respond to that. Well I would like to respond to Mike's question I wish that somebody would ask the question about standards so that I'll have a chance to respond to the standards issue. But as far as I know the standards the standards issue had little to do with what you asked my. Here's what I have done as state superintendent I created a parent advisory council. We have an advisory council for this for this and for this and that. How come we don't have a parent advisory for the state superintendent. So I created one so I could be in connection on a regular basis with the parents around our state we meet regularly our agency has produced a wonderful resource guide for school districts that helps them to know how to build relationships with parents in their local school district including the family centers that have already talked about. I want that document all over the state and you was

we provide in service to parents and the teachers in the use of that guide to create those centers. We need that kind of connection with parents. All right we're going to try to pick up the pace if we might hear a little bit in our last 10 12 minutes and so we're going to ask you to limit your answers if you would please to about 30 seconds each so that we can move along and get as many of our questioners as as we can. You mentioned local. We have a local district a person here from the the deforest school board go ahead with a question for the candidates. OK my name is Linda mine halts and my question to you is that I also took an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States and I strongly believe that. A local school boards control the local schools and with more and more federal funding coming down in state funding. I'm worried about where the school boards are going to be in the next century. Ok local control in the role of the board. Thirty seconds Mr. Bent. I'm a strong advocate of local control of the federal programs that we had

Minister of more than 300 million dollars worth annually that deforest and every other school district in our state participates in I believe are pretty much free of strings and a mandate and requirement like Goals 2000 for example you can use that money to buy computers for your children to do staff development to do curriculum development without any strings attached. My opponent says that she wants to send the money back to Washington because there are too many strings attached. There are not misspent. I miss cross and we have a follow up again. I believe very strongly in local control I said it four years ago I say it today. I want the school boards and their parents to make the decisions on what is best for their school systems because I certainly know that one size doesn't fit all. What's necessary to improve the schools for kids in Milwaukee is much different than that which is needed in Horton ville or even nearby New London which is a small school system like Wharton ville. The local people need to have the control of their schools and make those decisions and we need to respect that and we do need to be careful

of federal control. All right we have a question of yes. Yes my name's Dennis Murphy and I specifically want to ask what your position is pertaining to classroom size and the learning environment and how you specifically and I underline specifically intend if elected to implement that position. Thank you. All right. Went across. Thirty seconds. As a classroom teacher I know that it makes a lot of difference as to whether in our classroom we have every seat filled or whether there's some space to move students around. It's important to students also because of the fact that students like to have a close relationship with their teachers even at high school level where I teach. You know you might think that it's only the little kids who you know have a lot of needs and need to talk to the teacher and need to really interact. But that's not so in the society that we have today are

our teachers need to be able to do that and with smaller classroom control you know size that will do it. But they're telling I it's a it's a local school district decision the state does not control that but my record is that we created a program I briefly described earlier called Student Achievement guarantee an education that requires a lighted schoolhouse open early in the morning and into the evening hours. Collaboration in the community and 15 to one pupil teacher ratios in kindergarten and first grade that's in place this year. We want to grow that. I'm asking the governor and the legislature to help so that those children can now move that same way to second grade the first year of the buy and the M and the third grade the second year of the buying and buy in and that's progress specific enough for you Mr. Murphy. I'm Adam peer and I live in boy with sconce and I attend you don't you see Rock County. And my question is threefold. What are the specific But why don't we just do one fold at this point to get it right. What are the specific basic skills that students should leave

with and how do you measure them. What we need to be sure that children have the basic skills in the core subject areas of math science English Language Arts and the social sciences. I want us to start measuring them in a different way than we have it's not good enough just to say that my child scored at the 70th percentile I want to know more about the proficiency level of those children. We do very well as you know we're first in the country on a C.T. we're very high on almost every standardized test that's given. But I want us to have more authentic and better testing to measure the specific proficiency levels of our children. And lastly I want us to have a broad based curriculum because the arts foreign language environmental lead they're all very important. And across. If we're listening to our parents if we really want them involved and we really want to give them respect if we really want to listen to what they're saying what they are saying at this point is above and beyond anything else they want to know for sure that their kids are coming out of school able to read we don't want anymore kids unable to read their

report or their graduation certificate. They want to know that the kids can communicate in writing well they'll need this skill and they want to know that their kids can do basic math that we won't be hearing any more of the stories of employers with employees who can't even make basic change and that's not all they want but they definitely absolutely positively want that. What is your question sir. My name is Tom Warren from below it. I'd like each candidate to give us some examples of what the DTI does very well. I'd also like to give you an example of state programs elsewhere that you think are good. Thank you. Went across. What the DP does well. I'm not sure that I think that there are that many things that the Department of Public Instruction is doing well right now what I want to see is a better Department of Public Instruction. I want to see a Department of Public Instruction that is

not mandate please. I want to see a Department of Public Instruction that is thoroughly it. I think the Department of Public Instruction sometimes does a good job in servicing our teachers. Sometimes we do that area well in giving consultative services to school districts in a broad range of need like finance curriculum instruction. We saw on the screen when the program began when we were looking at the department curriculum guides guides to curriculum planning that are heralded across the nation. Every other state in the country uses our guide some colleges and universities cite them as the best curriculum materials they can find for teaching future teachers they're wonderful instruments. We provide strong leadership. We work directly with school districts to help them improve learning for children.

Am I allowed to make a response to that. Okay thanks. John's cutting the guides. I'm a teacher. I've been teaching under these guides OK. English Language Arts guide says that we as teachers in English language arts should not be teaching diagramming. We should not be teaching parts of speech. Excuse me. We teachers in the classroom are going to do exactly what we believe in doing because we think that that is Poppy. So if the other states in the union are following us in something like this then they're going in the wrong direction and I superintended the public instruction would lead us to higher standards by having students learn the basics that they need to learn diagramming is a fine tool for helping students understand a very abstract concept. Miss Krause I know that you speak often about about your teaching qualifications that you spent 27 years in the classroom and that's crucial in terms of what ought to be in the next superintendent. But why you just told us that

Department of Public Instruction doesn't do very much very well at all. So how does a teacher who has never been. A supervisor of a large staff a staff of 600 some misses and. How does that translate. Why should someone who has only been in the classroom run an agency which you just said doesn't do very much. I want to see it do a lot. I want to see it become the service organization that can really make us proud and make the members of the Department of Public Instruction proud. And uplift them because I understand that the morale is in pretty bad condition right now. But what I want to do is this. I am a classroom teacher. People want change. They've seen the edge of Kratz. The educational bureaucracy in action for too long it hasn't improved our schools. The schools have gone down we've gone down to a C rating according to education week. What one does then is to surround one's selves with good people.

Competent people at the top in the sense common sense of the classroom teachers is what parents are looking for and that is resonating. Thank you very much. I'm sorry I want to stay on the highroad for children but I think we can see why the some of the press have said about Linda Krause erratic loose cannon. She doesn't know what she's talking about folks. The truth of the matter is the Department of Public Instruction is a very very important educational agency to serve the school districts every state. Linda Cross does not qualify for a license to be a principal in an elementary school someplace. She couldn't get a license from us to be a principal and she wants to administer an agency that deals with four billion dollars of taxpayers money every year. Can I respond to that only briefly I'm afraid we're almost out of time. OK John are you telling me that a classroom teacher should not had education. If you are you're insulting every man and woman who's a teacher in our schools in

Wisconsin who can had education better and know the realities of education better than we at the bottom line with the kids who are dealing every day with the kids with their parents we know what's wrong. The best solutions to educational problems will come from classroom teachers. All right I'm sorry I wish we had more time but we have run out of time in our question and answer portion it's not time to move on to our closing statements. Each candidate will have one minute for closing statements and according to a coin toss done before the show. John Benson will go first Mr. Benson. Well thank you very much Katie I've enjoyed spending this hour with you. Thanks for being here and thanks for tuning us in. I'm proud of our record and I've tried my best to mention at least some of them the student achievement guarantee in education the two thirds funding that I helped again bipartisan support for to relieve property taxes. I'm proud of all the school visits I've done. Frankly I have never ever taken my eye off the children during these four years in office and that's my promise to the

children mostly of our state. If I'm lucky enough to be re-elected I want you to know a part of what our vision is. I want us to have a zero tolerance policy for kids who bring weapons and drugs to school and who engage in physical violence. I want to work with families and schools and communities to develop a common core of values. It's an honor to be the state superintendent. It's a privilege to serve in public office. Good night. Thank you Mr. Benson. Let's cross your closing statement. Thank you for this opportunity to hear us out. I am a 27 year classroom teacher. I'm a 22 year English department chairman and 11 year business person. I bring to the role of state superintendent not only change but reality a reality check. I believe that we need to restore confidence in our public school system how by rigorous standards that stated specific and clear that are knowledge based much more so than process based and which are measured. I believe that we should empower our teachers

through more classroom control for a more manageable state schools empower our parents with choice allowing them to determine what's best for their kids because I respect them and because I believe that if they're not involved I know that we can't have the best schools and take the best of traditional education including phonics. Add to that modern technology which kids will need for the 21st century and apprenticeship programs at the high school level to maximize the potential of our students. I'm a twenty seven year school teacher. I want to make Wisconsin schools the very best they can be. Thank you. And that brings our program to a close we want to thank John Benson and Linda cross for their time and especially the citizens who came out to be part of this forum. It was up to you tonight but it's really up to you a week from tonight on Tuesday when you all go to the polls on Election Day. Thanks very much for participating candidates. Thank you and thanks for Kati and me for joining us for this. We the People of the state superintendent race going out everyone goodnight. The people whose cancer and Susan's report. Has been a co-production of Wisconsin Public

Television. Wisconsin State Journal. Communications Group. Wisconsin Public Radio. And WAC TV 3. Madison. Wi the people Wisconsin citizens report crime has been brought here by Blue Cross and Blue Shield united with cancer with guns and power and like funding from Wisconsin Education Association Council. Brewing Company. AT&T. And the Pew Center for civic journalism. Washington D.C.. And. You're. Right.