Wisconsin Week; 227

Tonight production of Wisconsin week is made possible in part by a n our pipeline company a subsidiary of the coastal corporation providing reliable natural gas service to Wisconsin's homes businesses and industries for nearly 40 years. Welcome I'm Frederica Randy in Milwaukee sitting in this week for Joe Smith. And I'm Dave Iverson in Madison. Tonight on Wisconsin week a report from northern Wisconsin on Indian spearfishing we'll hear from both sides. Also tonight Oneida tribal leaders challenge the state on bingo rules. A former American hostage who now lives in Wausau speaks out about his experience in captivity and the debate over how to tax illegal drugs.

First though our regular summary of the week's news. Once again this week's spearfishing was the dominant story hundreds of spectators gathered at northern Lake says the luck to Flambeau Chippewa began their spear fishing season. Unlike past years protests at the boat landings have been generally peaceful with only nine arrests so far at various locations. Last year there were over 200 arrests over the entire season. Protests of a different sort at the University of Wisconsin-Madison this week. Demonstrators have been sitting in at the chancellor's office to protest an ROTC policy that excludes homosexuals from enrolling in that program. The protesters want the UW to insert a disclaimer about the policy in all ROTC publications. Wisconsin Senator Robert Kasten called on President Bush Thursday to cancel his Soviet summit if the Kremlin continues its sanctions against Lithuania. The arms control summit is planned for May the 28 and Wisconsin attained a number one ranking this week not on the athletic field but in the U.S. Census competition. So far our return rate of census forms is 74

percent. That's number one nationwide. We begin tonight with a report in discussion from northern Wisconsin a review of this week's spearing activities Joining us now from the law to Flambeau reservation is tribal spirit Tom Olson. And in Madison Chuck value there who is the vice chairman of protect Americans rights and resources a group that's been opposed to spearing activities. Mr Molson the reports all week have been that the protests at the boat landings have been much calmer much less violence that in past years is that your assessment as well that it has been a much more peaceful spring. That's not so Dave I think you know I think we have some type of news blackout and I think in our just because they're not vocally holler net real loud I think we're seeing them stay in and they're in a low low breath saying that you know what they said to us last year or so to say that it's not happening it's happening to Indian people yet today and do you know if you're going to vote on it. Do you feel less threatened this spring than let me ask you as you have. Last year in the year

before. That's right as we go around the lake my son was my son got hit with rocks last night and people were throwing rocks every night gunshots. So to say you know the governor and head away and everybody saying that it's you know a lot less of a peaceful season for Indian people. That's not so. But there they are at the boat landings are still there to fight Indians. They're still calling us the Terminators the red niggers the sand. Sand Niggers just you just name it you know it's very frustrating to be a fishing group out there fishing under these type of conditions. Now I know you've made the accusation that there has been gunfire as I understand of those reports have not been confirmed which you not agree that at least it has been calmer in terms of the number of arrests made or do you really feel that there has been just a blackout that it's every bit as bad as past years. It's every bit as bad as that David. You know people I think everybody is just playing this thing Don and and they have to come up here and see it you know. The governor can sit back home you know head away can

come for 15 minutes. MIKE ALLEN don't even come to the landing to protect his people as he says. Michael I mean you know we're always there we're taking a blunt end of it and it's glad I'm glad that we have treaty support people here. All right. Chuck full year from protect Americans rights and resources does that jive with what you're hearing. Basically what I've been hearing is what you've been hearing down here in Madison in the press I've been encouraged by all these reports but Tom seems to dispute these and all I wanted was you know you know David I think you know Chuck that's exactly where Chuck should stay and maybe all the other anti treaty people should go there too. But doesn't but doesn't par at least from your point if you deserve some applause for urging its members to not go to the boat landings this year you know David they got the hats there. They got the information they got all that stuff there so I had to have Chucky say that down in Milwaukee wherever he is that he's only speculating. We're right up here right in the midst of it so all right takes on the air response from you.

We told our members it's their personal choice if they're going to go to the boat landings. However we are very very strong in telling them we don't want any racial slurs we don't want any racial slogans on any signs. If you do go be very peaceful Be quiet obey the law enforcement do not cause any problems and we hopefully our members are doing that. We're about to turn our Jackie child about to science where they have you know too bad cuz they run out of bullets. What about that Jackie. I do not approve of that. Tom you know that and I know what your people down around awaya area well. At our annual meeting we were very strong in our statements saying that if the police see anyone throwing rocks or causing any commotion arrest these people. I mean they belong in jail or at least the rest of them. TOM WILSON Let me ask you this. Some people including your chairman Mike Allen who you mentioned earlier not only said that my chairman Well he is the chairman of your band a lot of that's right OK. All right. He has said that not only should people from car and STA the others

anti treaty groups stay away he has also said that groups from the American Indian Movement and treaty support groups should stay away. That everyone should stay away. Given what you're just saying when that indeed be the best thing. And that's that's something that Indian fishermen are hopefully to accomplish down the road a ways we're not going to quit fishing. We're not going to stop going to these or particular Lakes where we have the right to share those fish with our with our counterparts. Maybe we should ask a sports version one of the people that come to northern Wisconsin to start to combat what Dean Chris is trying to portray in northern Wisconsin. He wants to he don't want to muddy the waters up here he wants to bloody the waters up here. You're referring of course to Dean Crist of Sta. But again I guess my question Tom Olson is given what you perceive as still to be a very hostile environment in northern Wisconsin would it not be better then if support groups from both sides stayed away. Well you heard the governor say well you know you might as well go there you guys that I was here a couple days ago he

told them go there it's calm. He condones. He likes what he sees out there. Those are good people. Well I'm not sure you but the governor went on statewide television saying everyone ought to stay away. They surely did but I think you've got to stop and think what he has been saying and he's going to say that. Let's talk in the time we have remaining about about where you would like to both from your separate perspective see us move from here do you feel that progress has been made at all Tom Olson in terms of building a better sense of understanding between the various peoples of northern Wisconsin. Definitely yes but like I say you know because of our fishing night the last few nights I haven't had an opportunity to talk to some of the chamber people or the people that made a giant stride. We have to do it from that level we have to combat the dean Crist the Larry Peterson's that continuously take their troops out to the lane needs and create the hate atmosphere for Indian people. We have to stop that. And I'm hoping that the people in northern Wisconsin can try to do that.

Joe not going to stop fishing like I said all right all the failures of time that we understand that. But I'm sorry let me bring Chuck Cellier back into the conversation. Do you feel the bridges of understanding can still be built despite the kind of atmosphere the Tom Wilson has described. Certainly I we have to encourage the community interaction to resolve the issue at least until the court cases have been appealed and the final decision has been made. However let me also state that par as an organization has never organized a nighttime protest or rally at any boat landings. Do you Kit must you now not come to terms Mister failure with the with the reality that the treaties are here to stay. That abrogation is not going to happen there from every direction be it from Senator in a way in Washington or elsewhere that these are a contemporary reality and your groups must simply learn to live within. The treaties are a reality. And I am very confident that when the appeal is made regarding the Doyle decision and the crab decision we will in fact see that chip or Indians do not have the right to hunt fish and gather

off the reservation. So you believe that interpretation will change even though the tribes ourselves are reality. Tom Wilson obviously you disagree. You know I think you know I wish I was Chuckie would wake up in the morning and take understanding worries coming from one who makes those type of sad remarks about the treaty rights. They've been up there. You know they're not going away in a way and it indicated that the general said that's the law of the land. Let's start to work with it instead of trying to abuse it. All right with that we must close this conversation. Tom Olsen from the lack of reservation in northern Wisconsin. Thank you. Here in Madison thank you. Thank you. The Oneida Indian tribe headquartered in Green Bay plans to file a lawsuit against the state of Wisconsin any day now. The tribe takes great exception to the

state intervening in its TV bingo operation. The attorney general says it is illegal for retail stores in the Wausau and Green Bay Areas to sell the Oneida bingo cards. The A.G. says in that way TV bingo Oneida is an illegal lottery because it is a plan to operate a lottery off the reservation. Meanwhile the tribe plans to expand its TV being go into the Milwaukee market next month. The anticipated revenue this year for the bingo game is three and a half million dollars next year the travel expects revenue of nearly 11 million dollars. Oh not a Communications Director Bobby Webster joins us from Green Bay. The attorney general could not be with us today. And welcome to you Bobby. What is the tribe's reaction to the A.G. is ruling on the sale of these Go cards off reservation. Well I think Fredricka the tribe is somewhat bewildered at the attorney general's. Direction that he has been taking tours or TV bingo operation. We've been running the game since October of last year

and we haven't had any interference up until the past few months. Well the loss of these retail store sales mean to the operation. Well let's cut our size our sales substantially we had several off reservation vendors who are making profit you know quite a hefty profit on the sales themselves. And it probably has affected our sales by about 50 percent. And so they have stopped selling these tickets you aren't going ahead and continuing that kind of marketing approach. A number of our vendors are off the reservation have discontinued selling our TV bingo cards That's correct. Now when do you anticipate filing that lawsuit that we mentioned. Well our attorneys have been meeting in consulting and they have assured is they'll be filing the lawsuit within the next week or two. OK. Now the tribe didn't anticipate the state coming down in this in this regard at all. We hadn't anticipated the state to come down in this manner. And why is that. Well as I mentioned we had started selling our own operating our TV bingo program last October and up until Bill

Flynn had sent a letter out to our retailers intimidating and inferring to them that this was illegal to sell our cars off reservation we had been doing excellent in sales and expanding it had been a good public relations tool. It's been an economic boon to the tribe. Now you've mentioned their reasons probably why you think the state is doing this. What are they. Why do you think the state is coming down and out of bingo. Well in our department we can only surmise that Bill Flynn and the Lottery Board by his initial letter to our vendors offers are vacation is somewhat threatened by the market share the lottery business. The Oneidas have been successful in all the enterprises on the reservation we've been exists successful economically. We've progressed at a steady rate since the early 70s. We reduced our unemployment rates from the near 60 70 percent down to less than 17 percent on the

reservation. Our tribal budget has continued to grow steadily at this point we're capping off at nearly 70 $2000000. In a tribal budget in the end that's greater than the city of green baize and that surmounts into an economic impact in the Green Bay area of about 250 million dollars. So obviously this TV thing all means a lot to the United tribe. Can the tribe win against the state of the state decides. No. The whole thing is gotta go. I can't you know guess at what the tribe is going to win it in the courts. I can assure you that the tribe is going to continue to operate its game and that we're going to continue to work cooperatively with all levels of government. We said we sought to make sure that our our games were legal and we met with the TV stations with the appropriate authorities before we aired the game and we got the confirmations we needed to begin the show. And we're going to continue to see that our games are operated in a legal manner. We have to protect the integrity of the tribe.

OK Bobby Webster from Green Bay thanks very much for joining us. Thank you Fredricka. Now a Wisconsin perspective on a story of international concern. All week long there have been rumors that the pro-Iranian group the Islamic Jihad would release one of the American hostages in Lebanon three years ago their group abducted four American professors from the campus of Beirut university a year and a half ago. One of those four was released his name is Middle East farseeing a professor a business professor a native of India who now teaches at the University of Wisconsin in Wausau. Professor Singh joins us now from our studio in Green Bay. Professor saying I imagine that this has been an emotional week for you as you view the possible possible release of of one of your former hostage colleagues. What have been your feelings this week or part of that time I know you came to learn

about the news. I was rather elated. I was really happy. Of course later on sit back took place but I am fully confident and as a matter of fact I feel that the Good Neighbor said I'm going to. Fulfill the promise that once made. Why are you optimistic that that will take place sometime soon. Are there really her type of spend I have over to my own release. The same thing happened what they did at one particular time and mounts that the release of an American hostage was imminent but soon after that they made any of that announcement seeing that nobody was going to be enough to be released. But the sea evening or the next day they came back and released me from the captivity.

So you feel this is following the same pattern as your own experience a year and a half ago. I am fully confident and I feel sure that they are following more or less the same pattern. Were you aware Professor seeing of your impending release and do you suspect that the hostages held captive now in Beirut are also aware that something may happen soon. No not at all I was not given to understand at any point of time that I was going to be released until I was really released in my case the situation was little different. I was kept at a distance of about a hundred miles from Beirut. So how did did they. Brought me from day to down to Beirut on October 1st. Then they came to me for any of their day. On October 2nd and then they released me an October 3rd Monday.

Is there something that you have feelings about in terms of what via this government or governments around the world ought to do to try to encourage the release of the hostages. It's a really complicated situation. I feel Of course that we can probably show great in pity to their cause if they do have any. Many times when we were held inside they brought the question of the release of 400 prisoners held in Kuwait in Israel. They kept telling us that probably a reasonable solution of this prisoner situation can bring our release. All right I do not say that the solution is

very important for did release of the hostages. But of course I would say that different to Mr. unpowered should look into the matter and see if something can be done to resolve the whole situation. All right with that we will have to close but Professor saying thanks for joining us today and giving us your understanding and insight into the situation. Thank you. Drug dealers take note. Wisconsin's new drug tax stamp went on sale this week. People who possess sell or make drugs are supposed to run right out to the revenue department and buy these stamps and affix them to their stash. Here are the rates on the stamps three dollars fifty cents per gram of marijuana. Two hundred dollars per gram for cocaine and $400 for narcotics in pill form. Of course this sounds ludicrous. Anyone who would be

criminally dealing in drugs is not likely to follow the book on a simple tax matter especially not when purchasing the stamps presumably pinpoints that person as a dealer but failing to have a text that means fines up to $10000 and five years in prison. Senator Brian Burke of Milwaukee is one of the legislators who devised the idea which is now law. The wealthy criminal defense attorney Robert Lerner calls the latest drug law unnecessary roughness. And we welcome both of you. Tell me what is the intent of of the tax stamp if people don't really expect people to buy them. There are two primary purposes one is to give law enforcement authorities an additional means of enforcing laws against drug dealers the other is to channel money directly to law enforcement authorities from the proceeds of this prosecution. Do you do people expect these stamps to be brought. They are available to be purchased but it is not anticipated that the drug dealers would actually purchase them. What is anticipated is that they'll be an additional

prosecution of drug dealers for failure to comply with this law. So what do you think of this as a criminal defense attorney. Well I don't want to talk about it in those terms particularly I'd like to talk about it as a citizen. I think as you indicated I said over the phone yesterday it was sort of unnecessary roughness piling on. The laws in regard to drugs and in this state in this country are are pretty substantial already in terms of the penalties. There are provisions for forfeiture of property that are that are far in excess of any taxes that might be found under the system. The fact of the matter is there's very little likelihood they're going to collect very much money from this because this does not address the drug problem in this country. The drug problem in this country is people want to buy drugs. This is not going to stop them in any way shape or form. And for for that reason it just it it

just it's just silliness in terms of that the fact of the matter is the drug the drug laws have become more and more heavy in terms of the penalties and it has had no effect. In reducing the use of drugs just selling us I don't think so this is part of a very balanced package. The the special session package that we adopted emphasizes primarily education of very very young people and emphasizes treatment for substance abusers. It also emphasizes harsh penalties for drug dealers but only as part of a very balanced package. Now. It's easier to convict someone for possession than it is for delivery. And you were telling me on the phone that you thought that this would be used in conjunction with the possession and it's easier it'll be easier to prove and the prosecutors will get bigger penalties out of this. Is that truly fair to do. It would not be used to with possession but with possession with intent to deliver it would be an additional penalty. But primarily it allows a forfeiture mechanism

that you do not have in current law the forfeiture is under this particular statute go directly to law enforcement authorities. The other forfeiture is that Mr. Lerner referred to go into separate funds that are not channeled back into law enforcement for prosecution. Now would you all recommend your clients buy these stamps to avoid this kind of prosecution should it come down the line. I wouldn't know I wouldn't tell him. I would tell him the laws there are if they're interested I certainly wouldn't tell them not to. That would be a violation of my duty even though I think there are substantial questions about the about the constitutionality of the law that I don't. I don't think we have to talk about today. The problem with that this law addresses is it's not going to deal with with the real world the real world of people who are who are out there selling drugs who are being prosecuted in the state court cases are almost invariably are people not involved at a great commercial level. They are people who have gotten into the drug

trade because they've been they were originally consumers of drugs. And it's a way for them to make some money and away they live. And they are not going to be deterred by this and they're not going to have the money. To pay for any such fines or the cost of prosecution in fact the state's going to end up losing money because they're going to be charges brought against these people. I would say a vast majority of people in Milwaukee County who are charged with drug offenses end up having lawyers who are paid for by the citizens by the state through the public defender's office. And so this is going to going to add very little money to the state treasury. And this is not the way it to go away after the drug problem. How much money is it going to add to the state coffers. We anticipate that the revenue would be equal to that which is raised under Minnesota's law which is between three hundred three hundred fifty thousand dollars annually. It's also an added to turnt. It also again provides for forfeitures that are

not under current law. OK. And do you believe that the there's an appeals process which is similar to what you would do if you're owed income taxes. And second to be adequate is going to stand up in the courts. So I think that part of the process will whether it will stand up to other constitutional challenges in regard to Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination that the United States Supreme Court found in striking down similar but different laws back in the 1960s for for both drugs and gambling. The federal government had similar tax plans at that time. They were struck down they didn't raise any money. I understand there are differences in this bill that may or may save its constitutionality but I suspect there will be issues raised as to that. OK well thank you very much Senator Brian Burke and Bob Barr. Thank you. The drug stamps are on sale now. The law goes into effect May 1st.

Some last thoughts now on the other principal story of this past week and month for the past month we've all been going gaga over Earth Day public television commercial television environmental groups and businesses have all tried out green the other Wisconsin Public TV for example probably calls itself the earth station. But one Madison commercial station goes a step further. They're the official earth station. In fact there's been a regular frenzy of earthly activities over the past month. My favorite includes a push for people to take something akin to an environmental Pledge of Allegiance. I am not now nor will I ever use a disposable diaper. But wouldn't it have been interesting if Earth Month had coincided with the television ratings month like February or May a time when the word earthy tends to mean special news reports on sex drugs and rock'n'roll and not global warming would we still have

been overwhelmed with rainforest fever. Now none of this is meant to ridicule the importance of Earth Day it's helped remind all of us of the fragile nature of the world around us. But you have to wonder what will happen when all the official Earth Day observances are over. Will that consciousness last. Or will we all simply lay back and wait until the year 2010 when it's time for Earth Day 3 Earth Day 3. Sounds like a good name for a TV show. Good night friends. Goodnight Dave have a good weekend and a good week. Tonight's production of Wisconsin week is made possible in part by AA and our pipeline company a subsidiary of the coastal corporation providing reliable natural gas service to Wisconsin's homes businesses and industries for nearly 40 years.