The Wisconsin Magazine; 624

[countdown] I think he has to win Wisconsin because if he can't win Wisconsin with what we have going on here. I can't see that he's going to win any place else from John Anderson to Ronald Reagan. A preview of the Wisconsin primary. From a cartoonist point of view who should be the next president in terms of I just want to. Just purely from a cartoonist point of view, you know, from my particular point of view I would probably have more fun if Ronald Reagan were the president because I think he's to the right of Attila the Hun and that would be very easy to deal with. And cartoonist Bill Sanders gives us a different view of politics. Joe Lauer is a trained rolfer who has worked with a client looks like a small motion session with playdough.

No matter what shape your body is in some say rolfing is the answer. And welcome to the Wisconsin magazine. I'm Dave Iverson. In addition to filling you in on matters as diverse as politics and rolfing We'll also have a report on a recent gathering of science fiction fans in Madison. And we'll also show you how ice is still being made the natural way up north. The Wisconsin primary is now just 10 days away and for some candidates Wisconsin is extremely important. And in fact a quick look at primaries past shows us that Wisconsin has almost always been crucial. Since 1932 no president has ever been elected except in '52 without having won the Wisconsin primary. The early days of our primary were dominated by the La Follettes and the progressive party. Robert La Follette senior winning in 1912, 1916 and 1924.The string of eventual presidential winners began in 1932. Franklin Delano Roosevelt won the Democratic primary that year as well as in 1936, 1940 and 1944. In 1948 Harry Truman won on the Democratic side. Thomas Dewey was the Republican

victor. 1952 was the exception to our Wisconsin rule. Robert Taft won the Republican race and Estes Kefauver won the Democratic side. The eventual nominees of course were Dwight D Eisenhower and Adlai Stevenson. John Kennedy won the Wisconsin primary in 1960. So did Richard M. Nixon. Stand ins for Barry Goldwater and Lyndon Johnson won in 64 though Barry Goldwater did campaign extensively in Wisconsin. In 1968 Richard Nixon was again victorious and he also won in 1972. The Wisconsin primary that year also gave George McGovern a big win. Then four years ago it was Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford. So with the exception of 1952 the lesson in the past has been simple - if you want to be president win in Wisconsin. Well will that be true again this time around in 1980? Who knows? There are six major candidates campaigning this time. John Powell and I visited their various headquarters. Here's John's report. Anderson for president. The big field of presidential candidates has narrowed to just three running full

scale campaigns in each party in Wisconsin and we found the candidates now in third place in delegates Democrat Jerry Brown and Republican John Anderson believe they have to win in Wisconsin. The second place candidates Democrat Ted Kennedy and Republican George Bush think Wisconsin is very important while the front runners Democrat Jimmy Carter and Republican Ronald Reagan would like to win Wisconsin, but don't really have to. The Brown campaign is the newest and so far the least organized. The Wisconsin campaign director is State Representative David Clarenbach Democrat of Madison. Jerry Brown has said he's staking his career on Wisconsin. And we asked Clarenbach how crucial Wisconsin is. Well Wisconsin has been the live or die state for Democratic presidential candidates for at least the last 12 years that I can recall. And it has come time for Jerry Brown to fish or cut bait. He's been coming in poor third in each of the past caucuses and primaries. He has been succeeding in keeping his head above water and establishing a certain level of credibility. He now needs a resounding primary

victory or at least a show of real electoral strength. Congressman John Anderson has targeted Wisconsin from the start as a key state along with Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Illinois. Anderson's Illinois congressional district borders Wisconsin. Anderson's campaign director is Ann Peckham former vice chairman of the Wisconsin GOP at Anderson headquarters in Madison we asked her for a prediction. In my expectations he has to win. Particularly now. Maybe two weeks ago I would have said well if we come in second we'd do well, but I think he has to win Wisconsin because if he can't win Wisconsin with what we have going on here I can't see that he's going to win any place else. Ronald Reagan was shut out by Gerald Ford in Wisconsin in 76 winning no delegates. Tom Peel of Wisconsin native worked for Reagan in 76 in Wisconsin and now heads the state campaign out of headquarters in Madison. I think any goal for any candidate is always to win. OK and so our goal is always to win too. Our underlying

medium goal is to win some delegates and send them to the national convention this time because we didn't last time. We believe we're going to be able to do that. Dave Iverson asked David Clarenbach why all the emphasis on Wisconsin. Well I think Wisconsin has a tradition of being most progressive in their selection of at least Democratic presidential candidates and being very independent when it comes to deciding who they'll choose for public office and I think the kind of program and philosophy that Governor Brown represents is ideally suited to the Wisconsin voter. Does that mean that you're trying to present Brown as sort of a latter day Fighting Bob? Well I think every candidate in Wisconsin tries to present themself as a latter day fighting Bob. I think that's one of those things like baby kissing and hand shaking that you just have to do in Wisconsin. But I think Brown does accurately represent the most progressive candidate the most liberal candidate. I think that there is a greater feeling on social issues here.

Partly it's because it is such a beautiful state and we have relatively few problems in this state so that everybody can afford to be very good on social issues. At Kennedy headquarters in Milwaukee I talked with campaign director Angela Martin. Martin has worked full time for Democratic campaigns in four other states. A Connecticut resident, she arrived in Wisconsin for the first time in December. Wisconsin has a reputation as a very liberal state from people on the outside. One of the things I think I've learned about the state of Wisconsin it is not in fact a liberal state. That there is there's a real difference, a discernible difference between a great deal of respect and interest in the state for independent rugged individuals and actually being supportive of liberal concepts. Why not use a person who comes from the state and already knows the territory? No, there is a very wise dictum about that with regard to campaigns. Basically it is that, that

anyone who has a history in a campaign in a particular state brings with them built-in enemies inevitably. And someone like me coming in from outside the state I will probably leave with some enemies in the state. It seems to be inevitable in politics but I won't come in with enemies in the state. And that at least gives the candidates some breathing room. And I asked Kurt Wiley the other outside campaign manager if professional campaign workers are hired guns. No. Not at all. I enjoy what I do. I am a political organizer and I work for candidates of my choosing. And in this case I am working for President Carter and Vice President Mondale because I believe in what they stand for and what their administration has done in the past four years. The veteran among campaign directors is Charles Davis of the Bush campaign. A partner in Milwaukee's McDonald Davis advertising firm, Davis has directed Wisconsin campaigns for former Governor Warren Knowles and for Richard Nixon in 68 and

72 and Gerald Ford in 76. Davis says he decided to back Bush and then presented national Bush officials with a proposal to undertake the campaign much as an ad agency would seek any other account. I asked Davis if issues change according to events. Issues have a way of coming at you. I don't think you create issues. I think issues come at you and you have to meet them. It's one of the most interesting things about this Bush campaign has been that success has George Bush's success has meant that he's had to deal with the issues over the last 30 to 45, 60 days. In ways that he really didn't when he was starting out just wanted to try to get known. Now he's got to deal with a people want to know now they know who he is. Now they want to know what he is. It gets more specific. Right. Absolutely. And you can see that in our advertising as a matter of fact. If you look at the radio or listen of the radio advertising which is made later as compared to

the television advertising which was made earlier you'll find that emphasis on issues. I asked Davis if campaigning has changed a lot. There've been a number of changes. I don't think they're peculiar to Wisconsin but there's more a more professionalism there's... When we first started for instance John no candidate would admit that he had any agency hired or anybody hired. There was a myth you know that he wrote his own speeches and he did everything on his own. And they really tried to make sure that nobody knew that there was any professional involved. So that's one that's one big change from our point. And of course the whole television thing has changed. Has changed politics just dramatically. One reason for the increase in professionals among campaign personnel is the increased need to deal with the news media which can also make or break a candidate. We asked Dan Peckham if the media have helped Anderson. Well I think it's done a tremendous amount for him and initially

the print media has been excellent with him and I think really and truly the reason he is a viable candidate today is because they wrote so well about him early on in the campaign, last summer. And I think people have now reacted to that even though when they read it they didn't know who he was. Why they do remember that he has had good things said about him all along. Wisconsin has an open primary and some of the candidates are worried about a crossover vote. I asked Angela Martin if she's worried about a Democratic crossover to Anderson. I think the most cogent argument that we have that has to do with Anderson is that he is a Republican. The fact of the matter is that the Republican Party in this country is not going to nominate John Anderson for their presidential candidate. It simply isn't going to happen. Now if people are interested in giving a throw away vote they can do that. I mean we've certainly done it in 72. We've done it to some degree in 76. People realize what the cost is going

to be if we don't pull together in such a way that we move the move the president out of the White House. Martin said she has inserted a question in the standard Kennedy campaign telephone script asking voters if they're leaning toward Anderson. If so the caller gives them that pitch. We asked David Clarenbach if Brown is worried about Anderson. I think John Anderson's campaign has not made as much of an impact in Wisconsin as we had once thought it would be. He cannot win the Republican nomination. Carter is the danger the United States now because he's the president and Jerry Brown is running against that danger. John Anderson is not running against Jimmy Carter. Predictions: the Anderson and Carter people flatly predict victory as do many experts. The rest say they expect to win or do very well. Wisconsin delegates are apportioned by congressional districts so all the candidates could come away with delegates if not that all important momentum from the nation's oldest primary.

John Powell joins us now for an update on the primary here in Wisconsin. John we're past Illinois now big wins for Reagan and Carter. What impact do you see that as having on the Wisconsin primary ten days from now? Well I guess it all boils down to momentum, Dave, because this is something that I decry and I suppose people will say the piece we just saw is sort of this momentum thing who's ahead. Actually we just wanted to look at the campaign directors for the various candidates so people get a little idea of what at least one person behind each candidate in Wisconsin is like. I hope it doesn't contribute to what I'm going to talk about which is this momentum thing. The tendency of the media to report the campaign like like a horse race or some kind of athletic contest. It's who's ahead, who's moving up, who's got momentum rather than looking at the issues and several of the people we talked to in this piece brought that up. Several of them said in the Carter campaign director agreed that Jimmy Carter really didn't have much of an organization at all in Wisconsin in 1976

much weaker than Morris Udall's organization and yet he won based largely on momentum. This idea that Carter is the candidate that's moving up. He's the one with this momentum thing that's moving forward. So I suppose that goes to the Illinois primary for instance. I'm sure the experts will say if Anderson had won Illinois that would have been a real boost coming in to Wisconsin with the momentum. Now it's going to be a little tougher. It really is a question of perceptions isn't it because Anderson with 35 percent of the voter or whatever the final figure was in Illinois obviously done extremely well compared to where he was just a while ago. And yet because of this little word expectations suddenly he's not doing as well as people thought he maybe he would. And it's not just the predictions. It's not if someone like myself and the people on the national networks and everyone comes out with a prediction as an expert. It's much more subtle than that. I think much more important than that are the little tag words that are added on in headlines and in newscasts where where you only have a very brief

presentation and words are at a premium. For instance when Kennedy won the Massachusetts primary the newscast I happen to hear the typical newscast on a local station that said as expected Kennedy has won the Massachusetts primary. Now of course it's his home state he was expected to win yet he won two to one over an incumbent president which is not negligible. That accomplishment really is thrown away when you say as expected. How much do those two little innocuous words do? Another thing with Anderson. National Public Radio. I was a little surprised and disappointed in their reports the day after the Illinois primary labeled Illinois a should win state for Anderson. First of all I don't think that's true because at least in Wisconsin historically members of Congress have had a very tough time running statewide. Popularity and your own congressional district does not necessarily equate to statewide popularity especially in Illinois where they have 30 members of Congress. But once again these little words added on there should win

state for Anderson. You know it kind of just takes away from the the accomplishment. The fact that he's come from nowhere to the only remaining real challenger to the front runners in a matter of a month. The reverse is true as well isn't it? That for George Bush for example when he was in the Madison airport on Tuesday night said well I didn't expect to do very well in Illinois so the game is played by the losers as well. Game of expectations definitely. And if you start going down it's even worse I think. That's what's happened to Bush. For a while there he was flying high as the only certified challenger to Reagan and then just a couple of losses or even a slip in the polls and bang-oh suddenly you have reverse momentum. You're sliding down the tubes. And we have a situation which is is very strange that before the Wisconsin primary we have virtually declared winners in both primaries right after the only primary. Does that minimize the importance of Wisconsin? I should think so and especially the primaries later on. I don't think we've even been through half of the primaries yet and yet we have

CBS and NBC and ABC have virtually declared the winners. I don't know the people on the last day the last primaries in June include California the biggest of them all on the last day. Now the speculation is will Carter and Reagan have a number they have enough delegates to win the nomination before those states. Well if if the primaries are less important then in Wisconsin specifically it's perhaps less important than it once was. Is it and does it still remain crucial for anyone? If we can talk about this without indulging in this expectations game here. Well I think it's still crucial for Anderson. If you believe the the expert orthodoxy right now I guess. He's still he is about the only candidate now that you would figure still has a math he is not mathematically eliminated as they would say getting toward the end of the pennant race in baseball who really has a possible chance of winning the nomination. So if so of course to him it is extremely big. You're getting to the

point where mathematically now I think the Carter campaigners said that Kennedy would have to win something over 60 percent of the remaining delegates that are not yet won in the primaries in order to get enough for the nomination. So we're getting down toward mathematical elimination of some of these candidates and of course for them that makes Wisconsin and really everything extremely important. One last question John. What about candidates who have not received as much media attention so far? Jerry Brown although he certainly received some and and other candidates who are not so well-known at all Lyndon LaRouche and so forth. Will they play do you think much of a role in Wisconsin? Apparently not. It's very hard to tell. Brown did win some primaries in 76. And as the Reagan people pointed out Reagan had won no delegates as of the Illinois primary in 76 and won none in Illinois and went on to nearly win enough to win the nomination after that. But you do have to wonder how important it is. We do have a

situation where regional primaries are being promoted as an idea and in fact we have state senators in Wisconsin as well as some of the surrounding states who have proposed holding trying to get to that by holding the Wisconsin primary on the same day as Illinois and a few of the other surrounding states to to make this process a little bit more compact. So you don't have what is it 30 now something like that with the candidates all over the country to try to get some coherency out of the situation. I don't know if that can come about before 1984 which is the next one but we'll have to see. All right well we'll just have a see a week from Tuesday. John Paul thanks very much. Some of this day to day politicking can get a bit tedious some time and some of you may be tiring right now of all of this political rhetoric. But for one man at least the political season is thoroughly enjoyable. Here's a look at the candidates we've just been discussing but this time through the eyes of Milwaukee Journal cartoonist Bill Sanders.

I can have a lot of fun with this fellow right here when we are doing very quickly [music] Basically this will be a non political caricature of the Governor Dreyfus. But generally the cartoonist is a social political critic. You work that way and once you've isolated the subject then you find a vehicle what we call a gimmick to say what you want to say about it and draw it in a simplified version that's what I do. Bill Sanders is the editorial cartoonist for the Milwaukee Journal. Each day he cranks out a cartoon that is guaranteed to make somebody shutter and become very uncomfortable. The Saturday Review once wrote Sanders can make the opposition gag on its breakfast.

And yet Sanders is one of the most respected and one of the best editorial cartoonist in the country. I discovered there was a lot going on in the world that I don't agree with. I ran across a book by Herblock the Washington Post political cartoonist and that really turned me on as a way that I could express my views. With the upcoming presidential election Sanders is hardly at a loss for subjects. There is a lot of political foolishness to criticize and plenty of candidates to make fun of. For example Jimmy Carter. Well I suppose you know currently one of the most caricatureable people in the business is is President Carter for obvious facial reasons but also you know for his, the way he's handling certain policies and what not lend themselves to using the facial characteristics in a fashion which says something about his performance as a president.

He has this interesting looking face. It's kind of craggy and he has freckles. The large nose the big lips his kind of crinkly neck that runs down into a collar which you probably feel should be a little bit too large for him. Maybe there's something symbolic in that. Actually it's kind of like having Howdy Doody for president. From a cartoonist point of view who should be the next president in terms of just ... Just purely from a cartoonist point of view you know from my particular point of view I would probably had more fun with Ronald Reagan were president because I think he's to the right of Attila the Hun and that would be very easy to deal with. Ronald Reagan has a face that that almost looks like a roadmap but he's one of these interesting people that that from a distance looks has a youngish look about him but the closer you get to Ronald Reagan the more you see the roadmap quality of his face and then the

other aspect of Reagan's character is he would revert back to the days of the Pompadour hairdo which which Reagan has. Looks something like this. Comes way up on both sides almost parted in the middle and The point is that that Reagan is a is indeed a very very conservative man and from the standpoint of his ideas about government and institutions and philosophy. From that standpoint he would be an easy subject to caricature. Sanders cartoons are not limited to just national political figures. He often turns his sarcastic pen to a local or state official. A conflict between Mayor Maier and the Milwaukee Journal has been going on for years and this has given Sanders some good ammunition for his cartoons.

Mayor Maier and I have had a kind of a I think an interesting relationship. He for years you know we've we've done a lot of head on battle. At one point he used to have a telephone number which you could dial and get a recorded message and a great deal of time the message would be about the erroneous cartoon of Colonel Sanders. He refers to me as Colonel Sanders. The chicken Colonel which prompted you to go to a press conference [inaudible] Yes. I thought you know a little humor in this whole business might not hurt so I got a Colonel Sanders outfit and went to his press conference. He took a dim view of that I think. You know occasionally he will call and complain about a cartoon. But basically he doesn't complain to me, he complains to the front office. My favorite cartoon probably since I've been here was the first cartoon I ever did on Judge Chris Seraphim because the judge never been drawn in a cartoon before. He took a dim view of that and I understand it. When his bailiff put the paper upon his desk. He took a recess went back into his office to fume about it. And I think he called the editor of the paper. And the reaction was enormous because he has a lot of

supporters and they were ery upset you know. You just don't picture a serious a judicial figures you know in this kind of setting. And that's something readers around here have had to adjust to. The antics of Judge Seraphim may be Sanders favorite cartoon, but his favorite subject was that infamous bad guy President Richard Nixon. The person who lent himself most readily to political comment of course was Richard Nixon mainly because he wound up with such an atrocious presidency. His nature and character readily lent itself to criticism. Richard Nixon's it's visage lend itself to to expressions of criticism about him as a president. He had very thick eyebrows and a kind of ski shoot nose that came down like this. And if you put those in combination plus his eyes were set tight up on the put those in combination like that apparently he is a person that that is he's angry or ominous or devious or whatever and it's a perfect wedding of

it as it turns out in my view of his of his personality and his character traits. He had large jaws. I don't even... for the sake of this character give him a nice bipartisan smile. It looks something like that and ah. His Nixon hairdo which looks something like that. That's basically kind of a straight caricature. Her block used to give him a five o'clock shadow indicating the deviousness of his of his political nature. I never really did that. But if I were to you know just have a little fun with this caricature right here as an expression of my feelings about the man's presidency, I would might finish it off to look something like that. I have fun every day you know. It is fun to to to mobilize your thought processes and an and put them down on paper you know that's that's a fun profession.

And if you'd like to see more of Bill Sanders cartoons this collected work is available through the Milwaukee Journal. Coming up next now in the Wisconsin magazine: Rolfing. If you don't know what it is by now we'll be showing you in just a moment. Science fiction in Wisconsin and ice making up north all of those stories in just a moment. Finding a home for a new state prison is harder than it sounds. Most people agree that Wisconsin needs one but not in their own backyard. The decision has to be made and soon. Will the politicians and the public decide where to put the prison? We'll try to find out on the March 27th edition of Target here on this public television station. It's called structural integration. It's supposed to reorder the body to realign our parts and make us more balanced, more flexible, more vertical. It's popular name is rolfing. It's a new form of deep massage that's being practiced all over the country and more and more now in Wisconsin. Denise Tabbit has this report. About this time of year most of us feel like we could use a good pull or push or

twist to get our bodies moving again. No matter what shape we are in we'd have to have our head in the cement not to know that there are always new ways to reshape. And each new way carries its own philosophy and its own practitioners. Weight training gyms and pumping iron are now as well known and accepted as jogging and biking. But a new body philosophy has been moving into Wisconsin over the past few years that you may not have heard about. It's called rolfing and its goal is essentially to straighten out what we have spent years twisting and turning and crunching up in our knees and backs and necks. The body restructuring technique takes its name from Dr. Ida Rolf who developed a method of deep massage. And is said to realign and reorganize the body. Joe Lauer is a trained Rolfer whose work with a client looks like a slow motion session with Play-Doh. [music]

[music] [music] Is Rolfing a sophisticated massage? It goes further than massage. We are aiming at restructuring bodies not just relaxing the tissue. The training for becoming a Rolfer is much more extensive than the training for becoming a masseur and includes training as a masseur. But it goes far beyond massage and the results are longer lasting and more profound. Restructuring does sound much more serious as a matter of fact. It sounds like there is some pulling apart almost of the body. Well sometimes it's almost paradoxical but sometimes you need to get two body segments a little bit further apart from each other so they can function more efficiently. A Rolfer will go in with his hands using his fingertips sometimes his knuckles sometimes a broad part of an arm or an elbow to slightly move, change, reposition tissue in the

body to separate two muscle structures that have become stuck together. Why should this be a permanent restructuring? If I pull a muscle when it heals it will be go back to the way it was. So after you get done with a with a Rolfing session why won't my muscles go back the way they were? Okay because as we change the structure the patterns change. In other words I get that knee to move straight and now the person is walking down the street and his knees are tracking straighter. So now his hips have better knees to relate to and his whole movement pattern begins to change. This movement pattern continues to evolve because it's a more efficient pattern. The old habits the old patterns become uncomfortable and the person doesn't tend to go back to them. It sounds like a 1980s version of sit up straight or stand up straight. Right. Is it? Without the effort. What we do because if you don't have the wherewithal to sit up straight, if your structure... Most people we talk about Oh got poor posture. Most of the

time it's not poor posture it's poor structure. That person doesn't have the wherewithal to sit up straight. We physically cannot. Physically cannot, right. The muscles are tight in the front so they pull his rib cage down or the tighter and one side so the shoulders sit at an angle and so forth. Rolfing changes that and it brings a person to a place where he can sit up straight where he can function at a physiological or a healthier posture. While most of us think of good posture as a matter of will not massage, Allison Carlson had a different experience. Do you feel that perhaps this is something you could have done for yourself you know stand up straighter sit up straighter? No, I had my mother constantly telling me to stand up straighter. She's constantly pulling pulling my shoulders back. Allison don't slump and it hurt. In my case I really couldn't physically stand up straighter or get my knee my knees to go out straight because the joints just would never go that way and it hurt to try and force in there because they

were they were in such a pattern and they had developed into this pattern where I couldn't I couldn't force them back into line. The other sensation that I felt after he had done some work on my back and my rib cage was I literally felt as if someone had had pulled me up from the chest up and I was taller and I actually gained about a half inch in height during the course of the Rolfing. And part of that was associated with with getting my weight more centered over my body. When you're pigeon toed your weight tends to be center forward because your knees are bending your toes are in your weights more forward. And as my feet my knees are getting into place and my spine was getting more straight the curvature in my spine actually visibly lessened. And I just felt like someone had pulled me right up. The spine curvature that Allison mentioned sent her to orthopedic surgeons and chiropractors. But she ended

up with a Rolfer. After you had seen the chiropractors and the orthopedic surgeons did you think Rolfing was going to be a last resort? I was willing to try anything because I had spent at least $500 already in X-rays and visits to expensive orthopedic surgeons and visits to chiropractors and $500 is certainly a lot less than major surgery would have been which is really the only alternative. Or going to a chiropractor for a year or two getting continual adjustment several times a week. So for me it was very much worth it. Even though Allison found a relief in Rolfing that she did not get from the medical profession serious questions were raised about the use of Rolfing in those situations. Rolfing is a wellness therapy not a curative treatment for injury or disease. Rolfing can also be painful. Not unlike a lot of body exercises but painful nonetheless.

Lean you forward again. [Rolfing session with patient] Oh yeah that's good. [Rolfing session with patient] Vicky Grazziano is a physical therapist who recognizes the benefits of wellness therapy but also expresses reservations about rolfing. Do you think Rolfing is dangerous? It's kind of a difficult question. For a healthy person, it has its risks. We have seen some injuries from Rolfing but I would kind of qualify that a little bit because there's a lot of things we've seen injuries from jogging. But I do feel that the person that intends to undertake Rolfing therapy should know what they're getting into before they do this. Is there any way to find that out without going to a Rolfer who will then try to convince them to be Rolfed? Well there's very little in the research in the literature to speak to Rolfing at this point. I know because I tried to look for something it's very difficult to

find. I think you would you would probably be best proceeding with a very good interview before you agreed to any series. Does it sound to you like it's a very expensive fad? Professionally it certainly does. But again I think that the person who is very athletic that feels they have no muscular injuries and that they just want to increase their flexibility I certainly think it's probably as much of a sun tan fad as anything else but that they certainly wouldn't do harm in checking into it. Mm-hmm. My concern would be the person who has a flexibility problem from a disease process such as an arthritic patient. Anyone who has a joint dysfunction or has a muscular injury due to a sprain, strain, a new fracture this would be something to concern me.

When you see people walking down the street do you look at them and say well we could all use a little realignment. We could all we could all benefit from restructuring? I'd like to say most of us need a body Jack. We all could probably use that. But as far as a realignment a kick up in posture your techniques. Yes certainly we've heard that for years especially the American public. I think we're most slouch in our good body mechanics and postural techniques. But to go as far as say a realignment or techniques called manipulation or spinal adjustment I think that should be a medical decision based on each individual person's medical history. As with all new forms of body exercise or a re-arrangement caution is always advised. But in our seeming unending search for a more efficient and movable body machine the rolfers offer yet another theory and another style of tune-up. So does everybody need to be rolfed? That's a good question. I've never seen a body that I didn't think could be a little bit better

arranged a little bit put together better. People get rolfed when it's their time to be rolfed. It's I leave it up to them. I don't try to drag people in off the street or jump out of trees on the people and start rolfing them. But professional athletes, amateur athletes, all sorts of dancers could all benefit? Yes. I rolfed dancers. I rolfed athletes. I rolfed our Olympic torch bearer in the in the in the Winter Olympics. I rolfed speed skaters, I rolfed lawyers, I've rolfed MDs, osteopaths chiropractors, physical therapists, housewives, factory workers, students, babies you know dogs and cats and... And now you're going to rolf a television producer. I am not gonna rolf a television producer. They are particularly tough we learned about them recently. Rolfing may realign your body but how about realigning the universe. Well that's the mission of

course of science fiction. Wisconsin actually has a unique connection to science fiction. August Derleth a Wisconsin writer who was a prolific science fiction author and he also helped HP Lovecraft and Ray Bradbury get started. An exhibit of Derleth's work is currently on display at the State Historical Society in Madison. The display was set up in conjunction with a recent science fiction convention in Madison. Here's more on Derleth and Wisconsin's sci-fi connection. Long winter moon-lit nights, spooky country homes settings that evoke fantasy, mystery, and the supernatural they were also the settings that inspired August Derleth, a Wisconsin writer who published 150 books from the 1930s to the 60s. Derleth penned his first story at age 15. It was published in this magazine Weird Tales. Weird Tales spanned 30 years of fantasy writers from Derleth to H.P. Lovecraft to Ray Bradbury. Until publication ceased in the 1950s, Weird Tales was the premier science

fiction magazine. The covers themselves were flights of artistic fancy. And inside the covers. Well just listen. [door creaking open] Twisting about he saw it, the winged one with fearful speed it was rushing upon him. And in that instant Conan had only a confused impression of a gigantic man like shape. Of huge hairy arms of a malformed head whose broad face the only features recognizable as such were a pair of blood red eyes. It was neither man nor beast nor devil. Imbued with characteristic subhuman as well as characteristics super-human. That tale seems a ways from the hip trendy world of Star Trek. And indeed

a different kind of fantasy attracts people now to science fiction and to conventions like one held recently in Madison. [speaking in background] [speaking in background] The reasons that bring people here are as varied as the distances they traveled to get here. They come from Montana, New York, Washington and California. They come in part just to have a good time. [background talking] [background talking] John is getting the looks from me. What's wrong with her. For others it's the buying and selling the huckstering. In fact it can be a new hedge against inflation. There aren't any like rules is just just what's hot and what's not. You have you have to to know the market just like any other investment. Just like stocks. And for many science fiction simply combines wonder and fantasy with social commentary.

People always say it's the sense of wonder you know the sense of something exciting happening. The idea that there's something unknown there that we're thinking about that we're trying to find out. I just think the most exciting thing one could think about is is going to another world going into another time. [techno music] Part of it is escape. There's no question about that. But part of it does deal with social issues. I think all of us were concerned about pollution a long time ago. We were concerned about overpopulation a long time ago. We were concerned about deteriorating schooling conditions a long time ago. And we read those because we felt Ah ha! that's going to happen some day and we feel many of our feelings about the future have been borne out. And some take a serious look at the literature itself. Science fiction has sometimes been something less than liberated as these old Weird Tales covers illustrate, but conference coordinator Janice Bogstad thinks that science fiction presents a unique opportunity to present women's issues. Well this is what science fiction literature has that that aspect that it lets you talk about

another time and another place. And if you can talk about another time another place you can talk about people being able to live another way. And that's why I think I found it to be a very exciting and interesting vehicle for dealing with feminist issues. We do Wiscon as a conference because people have been telling both myself and other people in Madison who are feminist that science fiction is sexist. And yes there are elements of science fiction that are sexist but then there's this other element that people didn't seem to have been exploring in the past. Seminars, buying and selling, game playing or social commentary all are part of the fantasy world of science fiction. But perhaps most of all science fiction represents a time to fly away for a while. The ayatollah doesn't live in outer space. [music/song] [song] [song]

[song] [song] [song] [song] [song] The Derleth exhibit by the way continues until the end of the month at the Historical Society in Madison. Our state is famous for good beer and dairy products but both of those things owe much of their early history to another Wisconsin product natural ice. Tony Charles found one area of northern Wisconsin where the Iceman Cometh even today. When I first came here they hauled with the sleighs and they supplied all the ice

for all of Hurley and Ironwood and they had two or three big ice houses they put in thousands of cakes. And they cut their cakes about four feet square. So they weighed about a thousand pounds those cakes. Every resort around here and every cabin everybody had ice house there was no refrigeration. These rare films shot in the 1920s show what was once big business in Wisconsin. The Ice Harvests. Because of the state's pure waters and cold winters, Wisconsin's ice became an industry standard for cakes used by brewers and meat packers and by families. One hundred years since the peak of this frigid trade, Chuck Juskovich still gathers his small crew on Sparkling Lake near Woodruff. [motor running]... [unclear] my son, my son in law, and we've got a couple other. Neighbors. At my peak I had t38 ice houses I built for several years

and then as electricity moved into the area they just kept dropping out and now I'm down to 4 ice houses. We still like to do do it. It's fun. Right now I'm the only one that I know of around in a the whole state. Chuck doesn't own the four ice houses he now fills. They belong to tavern keepers who buy the ice from Chuck and in turn sell it to summer tourists. We're getting $2. That is cut and delivered in fact in ice house. Right now about all its use for is picnic coolers and for fishing. At one time Chuck might have received up to $15 for one of these cakes of ice in certain parts of this country. Natural Ice is one of the few items which has decreased in value over the years. But beyond the fun and the meager wages one gets the sense that it is tradition which brings this group together season after season.

[Tradition from Fiddler on the Roof] [Tradition from Fiddler on the Roof] Jeff Juskovitz has lent his strong back to the harvest for the past 18 years. But I work at a sporting goods store down in southern Wisconsin and Hartford as a gunsmith and I come up here for a mid-winter vacation. Just trying to get some good healthy exercise a lot of fresh air a good excuse to get together with the family and have some fun. [vehicle sound] You can't walk into the local hardware store and pick up the machines needed to harvest ice. No, Chuck made these contraptions himself. The saw was patterned after one he observed in Hurley.

But Chuck was more ingenious with the conveyor. I've had it for about 40 years that engine. It used to be an old light plat when I bought it as a 32 volt generator on that after power came in. And I put it on a conveyor for ice and I've been running on ever since. It's over about 35 years anyway I've had it on this conveyor. Chuck has modernized parts of his operation though he still plows the snow from the ice as they did in the 20s. That serves a useful purpose. But he does it in a different manner. We have to plow it off so it'll freeze and get the thickness you got 3-4 inches of snow on the ice even if it gets 20 below it it won't freeze. So in order to get the thickness I got to keep it cleaned off. And Chuck transports his ice to the icehouse with modern trucks but the ice houses themselves haven't changed. There's no need for change here. If an ice house is located in the shade and is properly insulated as little as 10 percent of the ice will be lost to melting.

Put sawdust around the sides and on top and that's a very good insulator and it keeps all summer. Usually put about a foot of sawdust on. It keeps good. Many people believe that Wisconsin Ice Harvest like this one left the scene because of electric refrigerators. But even before that invention became common equipment in the home, manufactured or artificial ice replaced the natural variety in most ice boxes. Yet old timers will tell you that this natural ice has always been better. That it's clearer and lasts longer than machine made ice. Chuck even has a story to back up that last claim. Had a fellow went up to Minnesota here just this fall and he took ice from from us and in a box. And when they got up to Minnesota they went uptown and they got some frozen ice and the ice that they got in Minnesota by night it was gone and ice they brought from from home here lasted three days. The same size cake so there's a difference.

Initially this old fashioned method of refrigeration would seem to be a good way to help conserve energy. But the truth is the high cost of fuel needed to run Chuck's saw, conveyor and truck could make this Chuck's last winter on the ice. It'd be sad for us guys that work on it. I don't know if that many people know that we really do this sort of thing but I know I can tell my kids and grandchildren that I've done it. We have quite a few spectators. Lot of school kids come and watch. Other people coming by take movies and pictures and like say this is almost a lost art. This [unclear] last of it. Art? Probably not. But there is a degree of beauty in it. The crystal clear ice being harvested by the antiquated machines all running in perfect harmony. Jeff Juskovitz is probably right that people wouldn't much care if this was Wisconsin's last Ice Harvest for it's a colorful trade which even the history books have curiously ignored for the most part. Today it's against state laws to sell even the purest natural ice for drinking purposes. But if Wisconsin no longer

needs the Ice Harvest this last one may continue if only because these few need to hear the Iceman Cometh. And finally tonight our regular television segment with a comment on primetime television and the relationship between primetime and soap operas is Suzanne Pingree. Suzanne. Thanks Dave. Up to now I've been trying to show how wonderfully different soap operas are from primetime television. Soaps treat women better and their plots have a delicious uncertainty. We never know if a significant cough is the first step to the grave or just an actor with a cold that day. Important characters get killed off routinely. Dan Stuart died a few months ago of cancer and I'm still very worried about Mak Corey. His fortune hunting wife is poisoning him. But the harder I look at primetime the more I notice similarities to soaps and not just in the primetime soaps like Dallas. Quincy for example is a show about a medical examiner. Now it's true that

the writers will never get me to believe that his life is really in danger when he's grabbed by the Mafia. But Quincy does do something that's very soap like. He tries to educate us. In almost every episode, Quincy nearly falls out of character to deliver in appropriate professorial fashion a lecture on unscrupulous doctors, incest or parent beating. Soap actors do this all the time especially on social issue soaps like The Young and The Restless. I've noticed other things that happen in primetime that are soap like. And I'd like to explore some of them in the future. When we ask the questions is primetime TV turning into soap time? Are soaps becoming Prime? And Will Sue Ellen or Kristen shoot J.R? Suzanne thank you. I have to resist the temptation to talk about my favorite subject Dallas. We'll get to that in a bit but I was really intrigued by part of what you said which is to think of soaps and soap like prime time shows like Quincy as educational

programs. I have to admit that though I find them entertaining I've never thought of soaps being educational. I think that all TV there is some effort to be educational besides just entertainment. It's one of the justifications for TV for TV using our airwaves. How can the Dukes of Hazzard ah Well they're teaching us about the South? No I agree with you. But what's interesting is about Quincy and about the social issue soaps that are educating us is not that they're educating us but the way that they do it. It it's so contrived. It's really funny. If you watch the show I think you'll see what I mean. Do you mean it's like sort of step you said Quincy steps out of character it's like Okay folks now it's time for a little lecture on x, y or z. Yeah. How is that going to affect primetime television? Do you think more shows will sort of have a plugin section almost where they get an educational message of some kind?

I think it depends on how things go in Congress with changing the structure of the FCC and the rules. I think if some of the teeth are taken out of the public responsibility, rules of the broadcasting industry then I think that that won't happen. But if I if it's because more important to serve the public interest well then then it might. I think it's kind of silly though. Do you think that entertainment programming can maintain the quality that entertains us and still be educational? Sure I do. Sure I do. I think that a lot of primetime shows are very educational. Even Archie Bunker for example. They do a much better job of educating us. I first learned about Fluorocarbons and ozone layer from Archie Bunker. And that isn't contrived at all. I think I think it's just almost like a low budget clumsiness that happens in soaps for obvious reasons. There really isn't much of an

excuse for it in Quincy. So you would see that as being a useful thing yet somehow a criticism in terms of how it's done? Yeah I think it could be done a lot better than it is. In what ways would you like to see prime times incorporate lessons about things that are fairly controversial say like incest which is a topic that's taken up on soaps occasionally but isn't delved into at all or very rarely at least on primetime TV. I think that it's a very difficult subject to bring up and treat sensitively. Quincy did have a show about incest and I thought that it was treated fairly sensitively and I thought he made the right points. That it's not all that rare and that things need to be done about it. It can't just be ignored and treated as taboo. I think that my response to Quincy's attempt to educate us is more in terms of a surface level sort of clumsiness

than I don't think he should be doing. OK. Lessons we can learn from Quincy as well soap operas. Suzanne thanks very much. And that's our program for this evening. Next week at this time join John Powell on Target as John and his guests discuss a soap opera or continuing story of a different sort-- where we're going to build a prison in Wisconsin. That's one week from now. Two weeks from now I'll be back with the next Wisconsin magazine. Good night. [song] [song]