Main Street, Wyoming; Inside the Wyoming Supreme Court

Main Street Wyoming is made possible in part by grants from Kennicott energy proud to be a part of Wyoming's future in the uranium exploration mining and production industry. And by the Wyoming Council for the Humanities enriching the lives of Wyoming people through the study of Wyoming history values and ideas. The invisibility of the courts generally in this country is due to people's belief that they are above politics above the ordinary fray in conflict politics and that they decide cases according to those mysterious rules that we generally call the law or the Constitution. The Wyoming Supreme Court though has in the past 15 or 20 years then one that has been trying to reach out to the public more to get the public to understand the role of the court and what it does. Mon.

A Wyoming three branches of government are located in our capital city of Cheyanne. Most of you are familiar with the Capitol building which houses the Executive and Legislative branches but are least visible branch of government our judiciary is the focus of today's program. One block south of the Capitol building is the Wyoming State Supreme Court. We'll be going in and meeting the justices and finding out about their work. Sense it stays as a territory Wyoming has had a Supreme Court today the state's five justices occupy the Supreme Court building which was constructed in 1937.

It was there we met with the Court's chief justice Michael Golden. Can you tell me about the room that we're in and this is the court room in which. We do our decision making business or at least part of our decision making business. This is the room in which. The. Litigants in the cases that we hear will appear through their lawyers and the lawyers will argue to us their respective positions on the issues in the cases that are before us. It is not a traditional courtroom in the sense of trials taking place where witnesses appear and and jurors are seated then make a decision on the facts of the case that has been done elsewhere in the lower courts when the case hits this courtroom. We have lawyers arguing points of law seeking to either affirm the decision below or reverse the decision below.

The cases which are appealed to the Supreme Court start at the Clerk of Courts office. The appeals begin here and when we're notified by the district courts an appeal is ready to be docketed docket the case and at that time the briefing schedule begins. An average year we docket somewhere between 200 and 300 cases from the time that it's docketed until the time an opinion comes out is an average of six months to a year sometimes 18 months. This table the two side tables and those two. Rocking chairs were in the Supreme Court when the Supreme Court was still housed in the capital. This is the way they enter. The courtroom. So they started here. Yeah they come here poor argument and they enter the courtroom to the bench through that door and after they've heard arguments they come back here in conference about the cases they've heard. They don't necessarily make a decision there but they discuss the case. All five justices sit and hear every case. Sometimes if one of the justices needs to be recused from the case we assign a district court judge to come and take

their place just for that case. And they have a green light to argue that there's a 30 minute time limit for groups like her. So they have a green light and then a yellow light comes on to caution them that their time zone most of them in the red light comes on and they have to stop all of the cases which the court reviews require extensive legal research. The state law library is located in the same building as the Supreme Court. I'm the Wyoming state law librarian. My job is to make sure that information is available to the court so that they can render their decisions. Can you give me a feeling for that. The breadth and scope of the materials that you have here. We cover the entire country we have all 50 states statutes we have the statutes from all 50 states and we have the Supreme Court opinions from all 50 states as well as the U.S. Supreme Court opinions and U.S. appellate court and lower court district court opinions

all available for the court here. CURRIE The main users of this facility. The. Entire Wyoming bar has access to the library directly through. Through myself or through the other two librarians. The public is welcome to come in we're open five days a week to the general public. People who do not live in Cheyanne can access our collection through their local county libraries not the county law libraries but their county libraries. They put in a request at the county library and it comes in through the State Library to us and materials go back. So anyone in Wyoming has access to this collection. The Wyoming Supreme Court renders decisions maintains the state law library and has oversight responsibility for the state's judicial system. I'm a fiscal control officer. Can you give me a feeling for the scope of what you do here under the payroll part were responsible for

209 employees that covers the Supreme Court county court and the district court. And what is the size of the. Well the Supreme Court in our respective budget the Supreme Court in the end that includes the law library and Supreme Court county courts we have a budget that's slightly over 13 million dollars for the Bayani and that's a two year period. In the District Courts are each responsible for their own budgets and there are 17 district courts. I guess that one of the things that I would say that's difficult is. Whenever you have a responsibility of working with a mixture of people legislators legislature judges staff you've got always a variety of interests and a variety of personalities and working with that in balancing those

interests and trying to serve the interests of the cordon and remembering the interest of the state of Wyoming. That. That's probably the most difficult. When Wyoming attain statehood in 1890. Well as a band of dancers served as the state's first chief justice van der banter was consequently appointed to the United States Supreme Court. Today's justices spend their days in the same way as justices from the past reading conducting research and writing. A. We had no idea it was going to require is as much reading as it does. And quite frankly I was a little bit surprised that I found myself working harder than I had when I was in practice. And I thought I worked pretty hard in private practice. But tell me a little bit about your background prior to your appointment.

Most immediately my background had been a private law practice in Casper for not quite six years and before that time I had been in private practice in Rawlins with the firm for almost 12 years prior to that I had served four years in the United States Army Judge Advocate General's Corps or I was a captain. And. In the Judge Advocate General's office both in Washington D.C. and in Korea. Now you're currently the chief justice can you tell me how you were selected. The court selects the chief. Add in a lection held in March or April under our internal operating rules the rules provide that the selection will take place in March or April in the year the last year of the term of the chief justice whose term is expiring. The terms run from July 1 to July 1 a two year

term and it's I think faith fair to say that it's pretty much a an automatic selection in terms of seniority. It's a rotating term. Rotating office and if you live long enough then they're here long enough it will eventually come your way. The Wyoming Supreme Court justice currently serving with the longest tenure is Justice Richard Thomas is of new I mean late 21st year I've completed 20 years of the Supreme Court. So at the current time you have by far the most years on the court. That's correct in fact at the current term may have more tenure than the other four justices collectively. Because you have the most years on the court can you tell me about some of the changes that you've observed during your tenure. The things that come to mind. Are the utilization of law

clerks. When I started on the court we had no luck. The difference in. Technology. In the decade that I was first on the court from 1975 to 1994 the number of case filings doubled. And of course. That kind of dynamic is what leads you to. Recognizing the necessity for staff assistance such as law clerks. What. We have done I believe is we have taught people. That the court room is the place where you. Settle your differences in grievances. Which in a way is a healthy thing. I believe on the other hand that I can say with a fair amount of confidence. That. It has become a place where people. Endeavor to. Redistribute the

wealth. Instead of accepting in many instances. Their own. Responsibility. The court's newest member is justice Larry layman who described to us the process of appointment to the Wyoming Supreme Court. The same as all the other judges you. Provide the nominating commission with an expression of interest. And they will review those expression of interest from from those individuals who have provided them to them decide who they're going to interview. They will then interview the individuals who have expressed that interest in filling that judicial position after they have interviewed those who they decided to interview then they will choose the. Who in their mind or that make up the top three candidate. What type of questions do they ask you in the interview process. Your qualifications many times are provided to them on paper but they want to know who you

are. Because I think many times of the most important quality maybe you as an individual and how heavy the role of law will feel when you put it on and how your response to the responsibility will be once you once you were appointed to that to the judgeship prior to 1970 to Wyoming elected its judges. But today judges are appointed by the governor then retained by the voters. Justice William Taylor recently went through the process of retention by the Wyoming electorate. The retention process works like this. A judge is appointed by the governor after being selected by the nominating committee. Sent to the governor and selected by the governor to serve then after the first year in office he has to stand for retention he or she. And all that requires is that they're on the ballot. And that. The. Majority of the voters vote to retain them in that office.

They don't run against anybody except their own record. And their service to the community. We have an. Absolutely independent judiciary that can think for themselves. They're not depending upon lawyers or corporations or anyone else for money to run in the election because it doesn't cost anything. If the public feels that that. Person is not doing their job they can get good at it. And that's why I think that the process we have which is called the Missouri plan is very very. Good. The life of a Wyoming Supreme Court justice is quite different from their previous experience. Justice Richard Macy had a general practice for 27 years before his appointment to the bench you know before it was did a lot of trial work both in the criminal and civil feel. She's rushing around all the time grabbing files and going to court

and really having enough time you felt all the time to. Do what you thought should be done which is business dictated that you do what you could do. Now I can sit back and really. Research a legal problem or. Feel You know you don't have all the time in the world but you feel like you do least you can devote enough time to. Feel like you've accomplished what you're trying to do is sort of a more. Laid back and relaxed life for me you know the United States Supreme Court has two women serving but Wyoming has yet to have one. Can you tell me what your expectations are in terms of a woman being appointed. I think of Betty kill. Who was recently retired. I think if she had applied she would have been a judge and it just. Comes down to qualifications. One of the

major qualifications I think is that the woman or man in a play has a good background in the law and in years doing it. But we'll see. After I graduated from law school which was 1959. I want to last practice law. That's where I was born and raised. My family came from the mosque and. So I. Practiced there about 20 years. And then. During that time as county attorney. The city attorney for the US command Van Tassel then had my private practice there. So. Then in 1970 I had a chance to come to Cheyenne to be the first executive director of one of the state bar. And so I took the job for a couple of years and then Governor Bush there appointed me as district judge in the 8th judicial district which my office was in

Douglas. And they ate your dish your district is Platte County. Lotion. And. Converse. So I. Was there 14 years. And when Governor seven appointed Supreme Court two years ago. I practiced law for nine years. Down excuse me I was a county court judge on the trial level for three years. Then I was a district judge. Trial bench for six years. I just felt that the combination of that experience. Provided me with a good background to serve on this court. I've been following the directives of the law I wanted the opportunity to have my hand in making law. I'm also really interested in the system as it exists. In the judicial system and the Supreme Court does have the administrative responsibilities for the courts in the state. And I've always had a real keen interest in and how the court provides services to all of us citizens in the state.

In. The. Statement that I often he is that. What is unique about the judicial department of government. Is that it is only in the courts. That. The individual or the member of a minority. Category can confront the majority will and have a prospect of success. If you look at the history of the Wyoming Supreme Court over the years it has not been an activist court in the sense of reaching out whether conservatively or in a liberal sense trying to make policy and assume it's preferred to leave those things up to the elected branches of government. One of the points that I witnessed too in we still hear people who express concern about judicial activism. Is that we probably need to. Remember that

in many many instances when something occurred in the courts that we perceive as activism. What really was going on was not an action by the legislature or the executive department but in action. There was a problem. Nothing was being did. The case came to the court in the courts. The problem. You get into the area whether. You should enforce the individual rights of a person. Other words for the Bill of Rights for Bill as set against what society he. May want. Her desire. I don't really think it's negotiable. I think that society probably as a whole is fairly well represented in the legislative branch and the executive branch because it's a majority of the society who puts the representatives there and it is those individuals and who kind of follow the the will of society that's how they got there based upon what they.

The promises that they made to the people that elected them. We don't have that same. Obligation necessarily here. In fact our responsibility goes to the individual. How do we provide justice for the worst in society. The criminally accused who cannot afford counsel it's an obligation of the state to provide counsel for these indigent who are accused of crime. There is a state responsibility to provide adequate funding and training for the lawyers who represent these people. Their cause is not a happy one it's not one that should celebrate it. They do that well with some of the the toughest work for our society and yet it's the mark of our society that we. Have a presumption that people are innocent and they must be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And if you can't afford

counsel we will provide counsel for you. And that costs money. And obviously in these times of budget shortfalls when resources are. Lacking this creates an interesting question and problem for the legislature in the judicial branch. How do we come up with enough money to provide adequate counsel effective counsel and how do we in effect rearrange our attitude toward people toward lawyers who serve society in that regard. Because they say. We're a law and order society ever increasingly we are a law and order society and. Our citizens are not happy if they have to spend their hard earned money to pay lawyers to represent the accused persons who can't afford lawyers and. And yet

that's what our constitution requires us to do. The United States Constitution requires that the Wyoming Constitution requires it. So we have to come to grips with that and accept our responsibility when something is clear that. The individual rights should be taking priority over. Society. What choice do we have but to enforce the Constitution. And I think it should be enforced. We throw who who protects the individual. You've got the. The legislature and the executive departments of good mood to critics the government. Makes the laws. But that's not their function to protect the individual. The court has not felt that it is its duty to take radical innovations. And that's a distinct contrast to the United States Supreme Court which almost from the beginning of its history has been involved in making a public policy through its interpretation of federal statutes and the United States Constitution. The

court has always been served by individuals all men by the way no woman has ever served in the state Supreme Court. Up to now the men have been excellent judges many good scholars on the court. But in terms of their belief that the role of the court is not to innovate in policymaking the court has been pretty consistent over time. The court is a collegial institution. It's not a place for prima donnas. Unlike the U.S. Supreme Court. The justices shared their personal insights into some of the critical issues facing the court. We have simply the ever increasing criminal. Attitude of our citizens it seems. And that's very worrisome we see the disintegration of families. And the courts are called upon to play a role there. Virtually every problem that American and Wyoming society has the courts are going to be involved in some way or another. There's so much more to

to do the justice delivery system than. Deciding cases. The future of the courts is an interesting proposition in terms of how we're going to organize our courts. Our courts. Organization at this point in time as it is rather. Than. A creature of history and I think we have to be willing to see whether this is the most efficient structure of course that will serve our citizens of the state. All I can do is state rather general areas of concern and suggest that. We need to be looking past the year 2000 and see what Wyoming society going to be like in those years ahead where the pressure points going to be what system. Can we design that will. Best meet those conditions. Those those changing times and how can we do it with the least expenditure of taxpayer money.

Chief Justice Gould talked about climate of course I believe that that is going to be probably the most important issue. Facing the courts. But in Wyoming and I think we look to in a very exciting change in the judiciary. Right now we have a kind of a fragmented system in the lower courts below the district court. And we only have. In when we had the justice of the peace. County Courts well before that we had the municipal court. The justice of the peace the county courts the district court the Supreme Court that's the make up of our courts. And so I think it's going to be exciting in the future because. Think that the justice of the Peace Corps will probably be eliminated. And that we will have a county court system throughout the state. And they will work in a district like the district judge is doing now. There will give the public a much greater access to the court. And with. Long trained judges because the justice of the

peace of our present situation doesn't have to be a lawyer. Doesn't have to be trained along. And so I think that we're looking for that thrower to that in the very near future. Of changing our judicial system in that way. I just see a real responsibility by this court and acceptance now of that responsibility to make the system better all the time and to to make changes where they haven't been made before and step up to the base and step up to the bag accept that responsibility and. In essence form a partnership. I guess what I would like to see even though we have equal power with the executive branch in the end the legislative branch to also recognize that there should be a partnership there because we're all working for the citizens of the state. And to the degree possible we need to work together and address the problems that we have. So to be more open. With those other branches of government and and take responsibility for our own. And and work with the legislature and executive branch to make it better for everyone.

The justices have all taken an oath to serve Wyoming its citizens and its Constitution. I know this is a difficult question but as you look across your years of service to the state how would you like people to remember what you have done. You know in in my. Deep places what I would. Hope I have achieved is constancy. And. That I have. Witnessed to what I believe in rather strongly and that is judicial conservatism. And you know I would have to confess that there have been times when I have probably. Been a runaway. I think. Generally our knowledge is one that. Jealously Good to see. Individuals rights. In other words enforcing the Bill of Rights.

That's what a tremendous responsibility it is. Yes it is. It's daunting. The justices on Wyoming state's Supreme Court remain vigilant in protecting our rights as individuals in a democracy. Their intellects have been shaped by their education and sharpened through their experience. Thanks to them for opening their doors for us. And thank you for joining us on mainstreet Wyoming. Mainstreet Wyoming is made possible in part by grants from Kennicott energy. Proud to be a part of Wyoming's future in the uranium exploration mining and production industry and by the Wyoming Council for the Humanities

enriching lives of Wyoming people through their study of Wyoming history values and ideas.