Main Street, Wyoming; 721; Eva McAdams

Mainstreet Wyoming is made possible by cannot count energy company proud to be part of Wyoming's future and the coal and uranium industries which includes exploration mining and production by Amoco and its employees who have contributed to Wyoming's history and continue to be active in Wyoming communities and in the state Amoco. You would expect more from a leader and is supported in part by a grant from the Wyoming Arts Council through funding from the National Endowment for the Arts and the Wyoming state legislature. In 1996. Even McAdams's Schoeni regalia maker from Fort Washington was awarded the prestigious National Heritage Fellowship by the National Endowment of the arts. Only 10 recipients annually received this national award which honors masters folk and traditional arts. Join us on Main Street Wyoming with Mrs. McAdam's and learn more about this great great granddaughter of chief Washington and her masterpieces made a beaded back scan. Welcome to Main Street Wyoming. I'm Deborah Hammons and my guest is Evo McAdam's winner of a

1996 National Heritage Fellowship. Mrs. McAdam's when you won that there are only 10 that they give every year. Were you surprised. Yes I was. Did they call you how do you find out. Well they called me and told me that I'd won the award along with the $10000. And I thought somebody was pulling my leg. So one of your good friends is like know. Sure sure. Thank you much. And they congratulated me and hung up on me I got to thinking about it afterwards. Maybe that's actually so. It was it was yeah. I read Jane Alexander chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts said that these fellowships honor these exceptional artists for their creativity innovation and perseverance and revitalizing traditions built by countless others. Now the work that you do is something that has been going on for for ever in terms of the beadwork and before that other kinds of handy work. How did you learn to do it.

Well I learned at a very very early age I must have been about eight years old. Actually I was put in St. John Roberts school for little children at the age of four and I stayed there until I was seven and I came home and my grandmother happened to come down from Montana and was visiting and she just decided that I would go and just go. And I didn't want to learn to sew. And she sat me down and gave me a thread in the noodle and I had to learn how to put the thread through the tiny tiny needle and started me out. I can't I I don't think I can remember what I started on but she was determined you would turn them on. And in those days you didn't. A little child didn't say no or why. Like they do now. I mean you know that and she swatted me alongside the head if I didn't do what she told me to. She smacked really shoulda back handed slap.

Now with this does to me on weekends that she was there was doing. She came down for the summer. And when she said you learn how to do the beadwork Well I did. And you know I didn't say I didn't question her because we never questioned or anybody that was older than we are we did what they told us to and that was called discipline. I mean you know and not today you call it child abuse but then that's that's the way it was. Yes and that way it was now at school I was that St. Stephen's school that when you know in Roberts Roberts Roberts mission was that it was. It was a school for Shoshoni girls yall can say. Now I know at those schools you weren't allowed to. You had to speak English didn't you go away. That's where I learned how to speak shochet the Shoshoni language. Yes. Gwen Roberts one of Reverend Roberts daughters after we had breakfast and through the table or a supper I should say and cleared the tables and got everything ready. We had our evening prayers. Then I remember the long benches they had against the

wall and she'd sit there and we'd all sit around the older girls and teacher had taught Shoshoni and Reverend Roberts himself that wonderful Shoshoni I've heard such wonderful things about me isn't all that to me. The whole family taught Shoshoni really. But I always remember when I'm not sure whether she was the youngest daughter or not but she really taught good Shoshoni and I learned right along with her you know as the girls were. So that's one school that I can say that they did encourage the Indian ways used in the language don't you fortunate that when you're very fortunate. Did your grandmother when she was working with you and she's teaching you the bead work. Did she tell you why you were doing it or did you understand or are you just sitting there. He always told me that as long as I had beads and Threadneedle and a little dab of buckskin It's just like having money in the bank she said no matter how little you sell it for. You'll always have money to buy what you need. And I found out throughout the years that that was really sold because that's how we. My husband and I raised a large

family. And every time I stole something I took two or three dollars of it and I tucked it away. And when September came when all along then I had enough money to buy school clothes and supplies for the children. But all during the year I saved what I could out of what I sold. And it helped. Now who would you what would you make and who would you sell it to. Well I made moccasins and I made necklaces I remember way back when we used to make the necklaces that we make now. And we sold those for 75 cents a necklace and we had the ones with the three medallions on it. And I think we got a dollar and a quarter for them. And how long would it take you to make something like that. Well my husband and I sat down and did the chains and I did the flatwork and I imagine would take us about two or three days on a mattress doing the change is lot harder than doing the actual you know the flat work and so and you'd sell that for

75 cents for the wine. I remember when I used to sell the Moxon's. In fact I got back four or five pairs of moccasins from a lady that always bought for me. And she had some that must have been 30 35 years old. And I agree. I've sold those for $10 to her fully beaded pair of moccasins. And then they worked up to I think was getting 12:54 them. And then we got to the point where we were gee we were making big bucks you know 30 40 dollars and then it just kept climbing and pine. And what we when did when did it change I'm curious because I know your work is in the Smithsonian it's in museums in Oklahoma Montana Wyoming. When did that change start to come around that people realized how really town. Well I think I did the one person show up in Browning Montana quite some years ago and I noticed after that you know them when they had something I should've brought some brochures down but they had some beautiful brochures that went all over. And then I used to send my work to and.

Some place down. Gosh I can't remember where it was at. One of the big festivals that the Indians had down south. Oh can. I add. And then so your reputation was built right. Yes. Yeah I made a best of show and got a purple ribbon. I don't know how many times and we took three of them. Oh you think of it later in the middle of the show when you come out with this name that we're all at 70 years old and expected to have when you're 70 years old this is what I'll be 70 years old June the 18th of this year. I was born in 1927 so I'm going to hit the big seven. All right. Well then I'll be a senior citizen. Well look at all of these awards that you won before that. I mean this is just phenomenal what can you tell me how do you prepare the letter yourself also. No I sure don't. I buy mine I got arthritis in both thumbs at one time and I just after my thumb straightened out I just tore up and down that I would never ever do another hide.

Oh because that's it. What do why would it bother you. Well I had one that was frozen like that and I couldn't bend up. And the other one was bent and I couldn't straighten that out wrong. And I went to my aunt's and she said all she said you've been tanning buckskin. I said yes I had you know she said that happened to her and I went to doctors and they said to type well I went on a two finger typer and then a piano and I I mean I couldn't afford to go someplace and rent a piano or whatever so when I walked in there and saw my aunt Madeline day she said I'll fix you up. And she went and got some knitting needles and gave me those and it was a little bit awkward at first but after two or three months my thumbs limbered up and I have never and that's been 30 years ago that I 10 my last hide. I don't know what I'm getting with that was how I was reading that was my therapy that she. Well now that the Hydes that you by now I know a lot of the hides they're cured with. You take the brains and what not do you buy them that they've done that or they're modern day half of the brainpan before I'll buy them because I'll pick up the buckskin and I'll smell it. You can smell the brains in the buckskin but

anything that's real white and pretty soft. I stay away from it because some of the people are putting Downey or. Some kind of a softener in their hides in soil so easy and I just know I won't buy it almost a tractor Yeah probably dead in there beautifully look and Heinz. Now look at this little bitty thing this is going to be a little baby man. That's a baby moccasin. And this is how you start it. You put the paper in there and then you get a design that goes on there. Now do you invent all of your own design. I sure don't. I've had some give them to me and I'll see one someplace that I especially like and have my son Larry copy it and you know do. And then but I only have one design and I don't know where I where I got it from but this one here is a family design. This one you never see on anything for sale because that's your family. So yeah we've kind of adopted it as a family design and this is going to be a purse that can go on a. Five inch belt for my granddaughter I'm making her a

new outfit. She'll have the dress and she already has the makings. And this is the purse that goes on to the belt for her. Well now I know that the rose has become so popular among that Shoshoni. Is that what's the story behind it. How did they. I asked my grandmother about it. And my mother and I wrote this rose is a lot different from what my grand grandmother used to do and my mother used to do because there were more and more points on them and they took their eyes off from. The wild roses that you see around and some of them are kind of rounded. And when they hear that their concept of a rose but then since then we are contemporary contemporary Rose is a lot different from what it used to be back then. Now when you say that but this is your family's protégé This is my family's particular room. What can you show me. You have some samples there are things that you've been starting Well again this is usually to keep that buckskin real flight. Put the past that I

was say I can leave and I have it just be so easy to get dirty in. And that's what you started. First you outline it I outlined it and then fill it in. And I usually as far back as I can remember we've used the brown paper in the brown paper bags that you get from the grocery stores are very precious. That's what I that's what this is. And that's something else I've noticed it's not as heavy as it used to be. It's very very thin the soft brown paper. So the quality of the brown paper has even gone down. Now you were telling me earlier and I back here you can see all of the little stitches that you've taken about what your grandma taught you about your grandmother taught you about not whether or not there was a. I had to put a knot in the thread and then clip it right down and then go from there side down under and then go back and forth so that the knot wouldn't slip. And I I had a very hard time with that because once I can remember just once I put a great big knot back here and I did all the filling in and she came back and felt it. And she said no you've got or not. I said why do we have to have

the knots up here because they'll snag the White Lady's moccasins. Well when I was that young I couldn't a kid whose stockings got snagged. I just wanted to finish up. But she didn't thump me. She made me take the entire thing out. And I'll tell you I learned to put my knots on top and not on the bottom. So I did get smart several times with her but I always came out the loser on it so I didn't try to do that too often. I figured there was a quicker way. And right now I can do whatever she tells you to right now. Tell me about that particular beat is a very interesting color. Well that's a bead that my granddaughter got from me back in New York. She went to Elliot green that's where I get all of my beads. And she'd heard the I'd always complained about gunmetal. And that's what you call a gunmetal my grandmother was just really. She loved gum. Gunmetal. And that was this color that she called him every time she saw. Oh my gosh I've got gunmetal and she'd buy a bunch of it and she used an awful lot. But then I

noticed some of her leaves were outlined in a dark blue with the gunmetal for the beans and nasty. And that was her favorite color evidently because she sure used a lot of it. And I can remember when oh I would say 35 40 years ago when I used to buy beads from Elliott and green and Kilo is two pounds and five ounces. And I used to pay a dollar and a half for black and white. And we'd pay the cut beads were always expensive. I think we paid $3 for a kilo of cut beads and now I think you're cut beads. Eighty eight and $2 for a kilo of the cut beads. The sharp cuts and we pay anywhere from oh I'd say 20 to $27 for the opaque or the seed bead. So they they are credible and different and then people wonder why we charge so much for our work in the buckskin hides you'll run you around $100 hundred and fifty dollars on us and you don't really get too many pairs of Moxon's out of you know a nice hide. You're lucky if you

get three pair out of there and you know. So how big is the hide when you get it. Well it isn't too awfully large something. And then you get three pairs of socks and I would get a lot of that. You've got so many fantastic things here. Now this tell me about this belt that this would be for a little girls. Traditional dancing. And it's got the long streamers on it that you know shape swings back and forth when they dance and those have been quite popular. And I brought these along to let people know that we do the geometric and this is an old old pattern and the geometric designs we couldn't do other than just the rose. Now when you see add pattern like that is that one that your grandmother taught you or that you saw someone else do. So I've just picked it up and it's just a pattern that comes to mind. I had a real real nice pattern that my grandmother Irene Trumble had

given me and she brought it up and I'd gotten order from some young man in Oklahoma had called me and his father was dying and wasn't for too long and he wanted to of Moxon's with the Soulsby and the burial Moxon's So I sat down and put that beautiful design on there and my grandmother came up and said well what are you doing. I said well I got an order for a pair of burial Moxon's and you know you believe the souls are completely beaded and you put it right onto the top that is completely beaded. And she looked at it and she said well those are burial marks and I said yes they are there for some old man in Oklahoma. She said you don't ever use that pattern again she said when it goes with that old man it's gone we've lost it. And I thought oh it couldn't be and I almost ripped it all and she said you leave it as it is and you send it off and we just do anything that we put on anybody and put away we aren't supposed to use again it just and I don't know why it's just one of those just one of those traditional things that we do.

Amazing. Amazing. Now I would think one of the hard parts would be no you've mentioned some of these things like the little baby moccasins you said you can hardly hardly keep those around because everybody wants to write. All right. So an awful lot of baby Moxon's especially those with a little rose on them. In any. And you made it happen. Well that's what all my scripts go into if they're good and heavy. They're no maker. You know I'll do the cut out for the baby Moxon's. And I don't waste anything and I'm very very superstitious I guess you would say. My buckskins scraps never go in the trash. I take it and put them all together and then when I get a bunch together that I absolutely cannot use they are scraps when I can't use them then I'll take them down the river and throw them in the river. That's another thing my grandmother made me and I never asked why. I just did it. And I've always done it you know. Give it back to the. I guess you got all my habits that I don't know why I have but I didn't question her like I said when she

told me to do something or told me something that was you know I didn't say why or when or what do you think she would think about you winning this $10000 award for your work that she taught you. She would say I told you so. You work hard. I don't you that that would happen. What was it like when you went back to what you had to go to Washington. Yes I didn't hear you as it was hectic. Yes it was hectic. It was. Oh and I they did me another honor all the dinner menus and in the invitations they send out had the the best that I had made for my son. The eagle was on there and I looked at him at that point and sure went to the Indian motif on lot of things because it was Indian this that you know you know flowers and the ego on that. And I looked and I said oh my gosh that that is the ego that I beat it. And it was just beautiful. It turned out so well. So your work was selected to be featured on your. Well this isn't just a word at home. Well now the other people was that interesting for you to see the other people who lives in L.A. And

interesting we had people we had railroad workers the black people from Missouri or someplace Mississippi wherever we had an Alaskan lady and then we had. The Hawaiian people were there and people from New York and oh it was just a drill. And the group got along so beautifully. I mean you know we felt like we knew each other after the first day and our first get together we felt like we knew each other for years and it was just really just the way it had so much in common. Yes we are. You're here to make her. She was ukrainian with something you could remember when she was so little and they came into the United States and she told how the other people would the kids would fight her and her little sisters and brothers and the other ranchers around and tell them what are you doing here you don't belong here. Go back to where you come from and you know she said that was really rough but she's noticed a difference you know in how people get along now. And it was wonderful.

But sometimes there isn't that nice to know that some things some have improved and you know that over time. But isn't that something. Well I know you've been honored in Wyoming also. Yeah. I won the governor's award in 91 and then the governor Governor Geringer that was with Governor. To the White. House when it gave me a very good time. To. I. My to coming forth in the state of Wyoming. Even look at him today. Oh isn't that wonderful. That's crazy. And I have some work on display now in Zambia. In Zambia I have a rose Moxon's. The ladies about eight. And then a pair of baby Moxon's for a boy and for a girl. And the last I'd heard they were they had him in New York and were making Plexiglas cases for them so that they could be sent over again. Well you know you've been on display at the Smithsonian which is just as fine a thing but you're also on display in Lander you have a saddle over there. Can you tell me about it.

Yes I have a saddle that was made out of Elkhorn and it was given to my and my father by his grandmother and grandfather John and Julia Brown. And it wasn't given to me like the land lender paper said it was given to my husband so I did the bead work on it and that was done for you know so our oldest oldest daughter could use it when she ran for Miss India in America years and years ago. Now this is something that your grandmother taught you. Have you been involved in teaching. Yes. I mean you know I did a class some years ago at the culture center and I thought I'd be teaching young kids. But I got the older group which was really you know I thought that was just wonderful. And they got along so well. And I never teach anybody how I beat work. I kind of improve the way they beat work because I don't think everybody reads the same way and I still have people come you know to for me to show them how to put on a pair of moccasins or put a cut out a pair of Moxon's or

whatever. So I'm still working out that I have people come to my house and wanting instructions and I'll sit down and work with them. So well now is this tradition going on within your own family I know that you have some very talented children and grandchildren and that's why I bought after. I've got a belt with all that other that other built. Yeah and my son does beautiful work Larry McAdams and he's known my daughters so and then I've got granddaughters. So they are just learning. So they're all learning and I think the thing that helped them the most of that they've got that color combination they can put the colors together that you know really come out and they're doing real well. Now tell me about we've got to cradle boards here that you that you brought this when you're still with this one. I'm working on. And it's all buckskin and I'm not a very good cradle board maker I have a younger sister on board that helps me with those. And I have a time with amazing and that takes a real special

night you that party or does she do tricks. She's taught me how and I can do it now but I can't do it as good as she does. And we had a time with that buckskin just one whole hide. And that's why the board is smaller and we went out there and we stretched it this way and that way and tried to cut it out and she'd lay it out for me. OK do it. And I and she finally blew up and said you're afraid of that buckskin she said just grab it and start cutting. She said that's why we can't get it together because you're afraid of it. So you have this why her. Yes I handed her the scissors and told her she's oh no no way if your I'D if you finally got it together. But she is really you know she knows how to do it and she does it the right way this cradle board your I'd made for my grandson my younger daughter's last baby and he's two or three years old now but he's lived in that thing for quite some time and they get used to those and they'll cry for him you know. They just love they want to go anywhere they want to go and they'll try to get in the cradle boards.

Oh isn't that. Now how old how old will they be when they finally you know. Well I would say a good year old. Of course they'll be in there until they outgrow. And you know her and the way this is puckered up down here that's where their little feet stick out there. All right that makes a big difference if they do that right. And they can of course you can move her up to about here. But this one is just going to be for show. I don't think we'll ever put anybody in this little thing. Here is what they used to put on they always needed something like that for their. What do you call it the belly button. After it came off the baby and they put it inside there it's a little pouch like. And now there's that couch. And so that's where they put them where the cord is where they had it and so it stays in there or not or whatever happens to it. I never did ask my grandmother what happened to me just know that that was you know those two did. And that's what you're supposed to be and a lot of people will put make the little baby

Moxon's in and put them here. And you know the kids will see all those bright colored beads and they'll grab. So it teaches them to see in their eyes. They can use your eyes and then they'll reach and reach down and grab it. So they're just it's a learning tool as long as you know as well as a resting place. It just looks like now that you're thinking about it does it look like you'd be just a nice secure place to be. Now I know that you were also on the Wyoming Council for the Arts for several years. Yes I was put on there by Governor Sullivan but I didn't get to stay too often long. Husband was very ill at that time and I think he was in about the last stages of his illness and I had to be with him so much so that was one committee that I didn't really you know I didn't last full term. I bet you learned an awful lot about the arts in Wyoming. Yes I did. Yes I did. Well I can't tell you how wonderful it has been to have you here. And I

know that all of Wyoming is extraordinarily proud of your work and just absolutely delighted that it's on display in the places that it is. And I know it's also at the Wyoming State Museum. People can see it there but it's just it's wonderful to meet you and thank you for all of the efforts that you've given. I just really really want. I've enjoyed it too. Thank you. And thank you for joining us on Main Street Wyoming. For

our copy of this or any mainstreet Wyoming. Send a check or money order to Wyoming Public Television or call us at 1 800 4 9 5 9 7 8 8. Please include the subject or broadcast date of the program. The cost of each VHS tape is $20. We accept Visa MasterCard and discover main street. Wyoming is made possible by cannot count energy company proud to be part of Wyoming's future in the coal and uranium industries which includes exploration mining and production by Amoco and its employees who have contributed to Wyoming's history and continue to be active in Wyoming communities and in the state Amoco. You would expect more from a leader and is supported in part by a grant from the Wyoming Arts Council through funding from the National Endowment for the Arts and the Wyoming state legislature