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- Interview: Ben Karlin of "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" and "The Colbert Report" discusses his career Filler: By policy of WHYY, this information is restricted and has Review: Film critic David Edelstein reviews "Blood Diamond" and ""Apocalypto"
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- DATE December 8, 2006 ACCOUNT NUMBER N/A TIME 12:00 Noon-1:00 PM AUDIENCE N/A NETWORK NPR PROGRAM Fresh Air Interview: Ben Karlin of "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" and "The Colbert Report" discusses his career DAVID BIANCULLI, host: This is FRESH AIR. I'm David Bianculli, TV critic for the New York Daily News, sitting in for Terry Gross. Ben Karlin, executive producer of Comedy Central's "Daily Show with Jon Stewart" and its equally savvy satirical spin-off, "Colbert Report," just announced his intention to leave both shows at the end of the month. He has a book to write and a life he hopes to reclaim. Karlin has been Stewart's right-hand man for the past seven years, which included the "The Daily Show"'s triumphant election-year coverage of 2000 and 2004. Stewart's nightly brilliant fake newscast reaches some 1.5 million viewers and lots of awards voters. Since Stewart inherited the show from former host, Craig Kilborn, and revamped it, "The Daily Show" has won seven Emmys and two Peabody Awards. Here's a clip from last night's show with Jon Stewart presenting footage of the Iraq study group. (Soundbite from "The Daily Show") Mr. JON STEWART: I want to talk about the bipartisan Iraq Study Group. Ten-member panel, five Democrats, five Republicans, each a valued member of a previous administration, each one impossibly older than the next. (Soundbite of laughter) Mr. STEWART: Is this the Iraq Study Group or are they perhaps doing a remake of "Cocoon"? For God's sakes, man! Anyway, co-chairman Lee Hamilton, 148, got things started. Mr. LEE HAMILTON: The situation in Iraq is grave and deteriorating. Mr. STEWART: Go on! Mr. HAMILTON: The current approach is not working and the ability of the United States to influence events is diminishing. Mr. STEWART: You know, he also performs at children's parties. He's awful. Not a lot of return business. Anyway, that was the upbeat part of the report. Just to give you a sense, here are some quoted highlights. Chapter One: "The situation in Iraq is grave and deteriorating." Chapter Two: "There's no guarantee for success in Iraq." Chapter Three: ~If the situation in Iraq continues to deteriorate, the consequences could be severe for Iraq, the United States, the region and the world." Chapter Four: "Sweet Jesus, is that house made out of bodies?" (Soundbite of laughter) (End of soundbite) BIANCULLI: Terry spoke with Ben Karlin earlier this year when current events at the time included Vice President Dick Cheney and a shotgun. TERRY GROSS, host: Ben Karlin, welcome to FRESH AIR. Let's start with a report that was about the vice president shooting his friend while hunting. First of all, what went through your mind when you heard the news, knowing that you'd have to come up with some way of addressing this on "The Daily Show"? Mr. BEN KARLIN: None of us could believe that it actually happened. It's pretty much, in the eight years or so that I've been at the show, probably the softest ball that has come across the plate, I would say. And there was no shortage of ideas. It was one of those moments where you're sitting in the room with everybody and, you know, there's 20 great things, funny things flying around. And it was just a question of not letting our giddiness overwhelm the process. But that was one of the more fun days, I would say, of the job. GROSS: Well, I want to play an excerpt of the report that Nate Corddry did, but I want you to describe the premise of this and how you came up with it. Mr. KARLIN: Well, it was really one of those things where, as more details came out, you kind of realized the story was a red herring because what was most scandalous about the story, in our opinion, as we read reports, was not, you know, what happened between Cheney and Whittington, but actually the fact that the vice president goes on these particular kinds of hunts. The more details were revealed, kind of like deep into the story as we were reading them, we're just like, `Wait a second. People go and shoot like 70 caged birds, and they're right there and then they're just released. That's not hunting.' And we just couldn't get our heads around like thinking about hunting as this, you know, pursuit which is involved with has some skill and you have to go out in the brush all day. And you--you know, it's cold and you're up at the crack of dawn. And all this idea that you have about hunting, and we just kind of said, like, this here is really the scandal of this story, that this thing goes on and is any way--this is the most furthest thing removed from hunting you can possibly imagine. So we said let's actually try to do--this is the closest to I think actual journalism we really go right up to that point. And so we tried to find a place that would let us come on and do one of these hunts. GROSS: Well, let's hear the opening of this piece and then we'll talk more about how you put it together. So here's Nate Corddry on "The Daily Show." (Soundbite from "The Daily Show") (Soundbite of music) Mr. NATE CORDDRY: When the vice president went on a private hunting trip last month, he took a lot of heat for shooting his friend. But the truth is, he's actually a crack shot who's downed as many as 70 pheasants in a single day. And he's done it on canned hunts, where birds are raised to be shot. I wanted to hunt pheasant like the vice president, so I made a reservation at the Tobacco Stick Hunting Preserve in North Carolina. Unidentified Man #1: We release birds per order of the customer, and the customer is able to go to the field and hunt for these birds. Mr. CORDDRY: It's like regular hunting, but with a menu. (Soundbite of laughter) Man #1: Quail are $7 each. Mr. CORDDRY: OK. Man #1: The chucker is $13 each. The pheasant is $16. And we use pointing dogs for 75 each. Mr. CORDDRY: Can I shoot the dog? (Soundbite of laughter) Man #1: That would be a very serious issue to shoot the dog. Mr. CORDDRY: So I can't shoot the... Man #1: Can't shoot the dog. (Soundbite of laughter) Mr. CORDDRY: I was pretty sure that the vice president would get to shoot the dog, but 140 pheasant would have to quench my bird lust. But would my thousand dollars ensure this was better than regular hunting? Man #1: Well, here the birds are in the field for you. You know they're there. It's a sure thing. The birds are here. Now, in a wild bird hunt, you may find birds and you may not find birds. Mr. CORDDRY: And who really has time to hunt and track prey anymore? Man #1: It's a sure thing. Mr. CORDDRY: One thing I've always hated about hunting, the challenge. (Soundbite of laughter) (End of soundbite) GROSS: So that's an excerpt from "The Daily Show" of a Nate Corddry report. My guest is Ben Karlin. He's an executive producer of the show, former head writer of the show, been with the show for eight years. So, Ben, explain a little bit more what goes on at this ranch and how the birds are actually shot by the people who've paid to hunt there. Mr. KARLIN: Well, I mean, they're basically kept in a coop. And you walk up and you look at what they have to offer in terms of the menu, and you pick out the amount of birds you want to shoot. And what they do is they take the birds in a crate and they put them in the back of a truck. They drive you and the birds in the back of the truck. So you're--it's like this awkward, you know, dead-bird-walking moment where you drive to the field. You're in the front seat, the birds are in the back. The guides, if you can call them that, will then take the crates, go out into the brush. They will then dump the bird upside down so it's disoriented into the thicket. OK? You will then get in position. And then the guide will nudge the bird, like roust it basically, and it will, you know, being confused and disoriented, it will attempt to fly. And it flies up and you shoot it. So the one, like, nanosecond of freedom that this animal, you know, experiences in its life is the nanosecond before it dies. And that's what the vice president does. And we literally could not believe it. We sat there in the editing room and we could not believe that people do this. Because, truthfully, you know, I went to school in Wisconsin. My roommate was a hunter. I very much liked the idea. I don't hunt myself, but I liked the idea of, you know, deer season and you go out. His dad was actually a bow hunter, and we'd go out every year and we'd bag a couple deer. And we would, later on that year, we would eat venison steaks that his dad had shot with a bow and arrow. And I thought that was fairly, you know, in comportment with the order of the universe as we know it. And I don't have any kind of ethical problem with that at all. This, to me, seems like very cheating. GROSS: How did you get permission from this hunting ranch to shoot there? Did they know what you were really up to? Do they know "The Daily Show"? Mr. KARLIN: Well, I mean, yes and no. I mean, I don't think--I think when you go and say we want to do a profile of, you know, your operation, you don't necessarily have to say, `And, oh, by the way, we're going to belittle it.' But we always are truthful to the degree that we don't deny, you know, where we work and who we are and what we're doing. GROSS: But with the questions that Nate Corddry asked, they have to assume that either he's a satirist or he's learning disabled. Mr. KARLIN: Yes. Yeah, but I've got to tell you more often than not, it's learning disabled. It's not, you know, people don't, especially when you get into a world that is, you know, fairly esoteric and not necessarily one that's drenched in a lot of exposure to the media or in a media center like New York. I don't think that there is necessarily that same skepticism that `what's this person's angle' necessarily. You know, we do a fairly good job, better now than we used to, of trying as much as possible to put the onus of stupidity and creepiness on our people and not... GROSS: Mm-hmm. Mr. KARLIN: We don't want to make anyone look bad unless they are doing something really horrible. And, in this case, these people that we were interviewing weren't, I wouldn't say, the perpetrators. They were just people that were working there. So we just kind of used them to kind of get the information out and to kind of make some points in general. GROSS: There was something really funny recently set in Daytona Beach. What happened was, you know, Jon Stewart is talking about how Fox News had a report about a serial killer in Daytona Beach who is targeting prostitutes. And Daytona Beach is, of course, one of the places that a lot of students go during spring break. And this was during spring break. So would you take it from here and describe that report? Mr. KARLIN: Yeah. This was something that--we have this one department at the show who is kind of the master of all things video that is happening in the world. And they bring us these just beautiful nuggets every now and then. And this was one of the times that they caught this report about a serial killer who is on the loose who was not targeting college students, was actually targeting prostitutes. However, the producer, because it happens to be spring break, the producers of Fox News thought that it would be great in a double box when the reporter... GROSS: In split screen. Mr. KARLIN: ...the split screen--when the reporter was speaking about the serial killer who was on the loose and the three murders have been prostitutes, to put in footage of these just dancing, drinking, you know, women, of course, in bikinis doing, you know, faux striptease dances on stages and on the beach, kind of MTV spring break style. And so you have this reporter giving this deadly serious report about a serial killer, and this just completely gratuitous, in no way relevant to the story, footage in the other box distracting--and more than distracting--completely, I mean if she--I would imagine, she would have just felt ashamed that this is what they chose to run in there. And then they go to this police expert who's talking about prevention and talking about things that you can do when something like that is happening, and they just continue. You know, and it's not just shots like a wide shot. They're showing like up-close shots of cleavage and jiggling butts and everything. And it went on for about a minute a half. BIANCULLI: Ben Karlin, speaking to Terry Gross earlier this year. More after a break. This is FRESH AIR. (Announcements) BIANCULLI: Let's get back to Terry's interview from earlier this year with "Daily Show" and "Colbert Report" executive producer Ben Karlin. He's just announced he will leave both shows at the end of the month. GROSS: I know another thing that you often do on "The Daily Show" is take clips from past interviews or past press conferences that completely contradict what that same person has just said and play them back to back. So you take a current clip of somebody in the news, often somebody in the Bush administration and juxtapose that with a clip of them saying exactly the opposite thing weeks or months ago. And I'll tell you an example of that. And this is--I think, this is called "Bush vs. Bush." And it's President Bush from the time when he was governor and campaigning for the presidency, juxtaposed with what President Bush has said about Iraq. So let's hear a short clip of this. (Soundbite from "The Daily Show") Unidentified Man #2: Mr. President, you won the coin toss. The first question will go to you. Why is the United States of America using its power to change governments in foreign countries? President GEORGE W. BUSH: We must stand up for our security, and for the permanent rights and the hopes of mankind. The United States of America will make that stand. Man #2: Well, certainly that represents a bold new doctrine in foreign policy Mr. President. Governor Bush, do you agree with that? Governor GEORGE W. BUSH: Yeah. I'm not so sure the role of the United States is to go around the world and say this is the way it's got to be. (Soundbite of laughter) Man #2: Hmm. All right. Well, that's interesting. Well, that's a difference of opinion, and certainly that's what this country is about, differences of opinion. Mr. President, let me just get specific. Why are we in Iraq? Pres. BUSH: We will be changing the regime of Iraq for the good of the Iraqi people. Man #2: Governor, then I would like to hear your response on that. Gov. BUSH: If we're an arrogant nation, then they'll resent us. I think one way for us to end up being viewed as the ugly American is for us to go around the world saying, `We do it this way, so should you.' Man #2: Well, that's an excellent point. I don't think you can argue with that. Mr. President, is the idea to just build a new country that we like better? Pres. BUSH: We will tear down the apparatus of terror. And we will help you to build a new Iraq that is prosperous and free. Gov. BUSH: I don't think our troops ought to be used for what is called nation building. Man #2: Well, that's fair enough, Governor. (End of soundbite) GROSS: That's an excerpt from "The Daily Show." My guest is Ben Karlin, who is an executive producer and former head writer of the show. So, Ben, do you remember how this sketch was written and what the process was like of finding the juxtaposed footage of the president? Mr. KARLIN: Yeah. I mean, again, most things start with kind of a just a concept or idea. And this was kind of born out of this idea that everyone is saying so and so is a flip-flopper or this person is not consistent. And that's a label that people always try, especially in the last couple of elections, that people put on that was a very strong tactic that Republicans used against Democrats. And we always, you know, believe that you are--it's very difficult to be 100 percent consistent all the time, especially when cameras are always going to be on you. You're always going to be caught one way or the other. And we felt very strongly that Bush had kind of gotten this relatively free ride on this whole idea that he himself hadn't changed positions pretty radically on several things. So the idea then becomes to find the best examples to animate that. The challenge there, more than anything, is to try to make them funny. You know, you want to make a point, but you've got to really be very careful not to kind of dip into being superdidactic. So I think, for us, it was about finding the balance of making the point, which we thought was a valid point, but also injecting enough humor into it in the way that it was edited and structured so people didn't feel like they were being, you know, poked in the chest. GROSS: Well, you know, there's a famous television moment where Jon Stewart was on "Crossfire" with Tucker Carlson and Paul Begala. And he basically said to them--he basically begged them to stop hurting America. And he said to them, `The thing is, you're doing theater when you should be doing debate.' He said, `It's not honest. What you do is not honest. What you do is partisan hackery.' And this ended up on the Internet. And the Web site I saw it on, I went back to the Web site last night, there's already been like over three million hits just on this one Web site that has the clip. You were with him, I think, at CNN when... Mr. KARLIN: Yeah, we were down in Washington. We'd done a book event earlier in the day and had gone over, and it was actually something that, you know, in our private moments, Jon, D.J. and myself would talk a lot about how great it would be to just call those guys out on what they do. But it was always this thing that was talked about in the laboratory of our private sanctum. And then when it was brought out into the world, while people responded to it in a positive way, I don't think that Jon--I know that Jon did not feel great about the way that all went down. And being in the room while it was happening, I can tell you, was probably the most awkward thing that I've ever kind of witnessed because, you know, it was real. It was, you know, there's this kind of veneer that everyone puts on when you go on television, and this was someone, you know, just being unbelievably, painfully honest to people's faces. And it was--there was just--you could feel the air just being...(soundbite of air whooshing)...sucked right out of the room. GROSS: Well, what kind of thought went into it beforehand? Did you and Jon Stewart sit down and say, `Here's what you can do to lampoon the "Crossfire" type of debate? Mr. KARLIN: No, because that wasn't a lampoon. That's the difference. I mean, that was just a naked reprobation. And, I think, that we had always just talked about that as what would happen if you just went on there and just refused to play their game. And it was something that, you know, even in the car ride on the way over there, we talked about it, and there was considerable, you know, back and forth, `Should I do this? Should we do this? This is, is this'--you know. And we didn't know how it was going to go. And we thought that maybe, well, that could just be one small part of the conversation. Maybe say something either at the top or at the bottom and then just the rest of the show will be the rest of the show. What was not foreseen was that it became, you know, the whole show. And then, certainly afterwards, when we were--the conversation continued for about an hour afterwards, you know, back in the green room. And then the president of CNN was in there, I think, or the head of programming at the time. And it was fairly heated afterwards as well. And we just felt, going back to the hotel, that that was just a disaster of the highest order. And we had no idea it would then become this thing that would, you know, have a life on its own. GROSS: So were you in the audience when this was happening? Could Jon Stewart see your face? Mr. KARLIN: Well, I was in--instead of standing back stage, I wanted to watch it from the auditorium. So I was kind of in the back of the auditorium watching it with a producer. And, you know, the lights are down so I don't think he could see me because I was standing way in the back. GROSS: Thinking, `Oh, no.' Mr. KARLIN: Well, it was awkward because I was standing next to the producer of "Crossfire" or one of the producers. GROSS: Oh. Mr. KARLIN: And I just kind of... GROSS: Very awkward. Mr. KARLIN: In the commercial break, I was just like, `This is going well.' BIANCULLI: Ben Karlin, speaking with Terry Gross earlier this year. Karlin, executive producer of "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" and co-executive producer of "The Colbert Report" has just announced he will leave those Comedy Central shows at the end of the month. We'll hear more from Karlin in the second half of the show. (Announcements) BIANCULLI: This is FRESH AIR. I'm David Bianculli, in for Terry Gross. Let's return to Terry's interview from earlier this year with Ben Karlin. He's executive producer of Comedy Central's "Daily Show" with Jon Stewart and "The Colbert Report" and has just announced he will leave both shows at the end of the month to write a book and reduce his formidable workload. GROSS: Now, you and Jon Stewart are both Jewish. And Stewart sometimes uses the word "Jewey" on the show. Mr. KARLIN: Yes. GROSS: Only a Jewish person could get away with doing that. Mr. KARLIN: That is very true. That is very true. It's very funny, though, because a lot of times we'll write--the other night we did one where Samantha Bee, who is not Jewish, was in Israel reporting on the Israeli election results, and that's so in our, kind of, Jew wheelhouse, in terms of where we go for humor on that subject. And we had five or six jokes that really could only be written by Jewish people. You know, I think we're talking about the number of parties, and there's 12 parties. And we were listing off some of the lesser known parties, and one of them was the "Chutzpahcrats" and another one was "Lefkowitz Party of Four." GROSS: That's right. That's really funny. Mr. KARLIN: And to have a non-Jew, I mean, have to recite those words, it's very funny to see. And every now and then, we'll put in Yiddish, we'll put in a little Yiddish. I think someone called her--she said that she was being called a "shikseh." And to see someone who isn't just familiar with that kind of language and that kind of speech pattern have to say these words, it's really not--it's not fair. GROSS: So what's the consensus among your Jewish viewers? Is "The Daily Show" good for the Jews or bad for the Jews? Mr. KARLIN: I have no idea. I have no idea. I think it's probably in the tradition of Jews who are ambivalent or hesitant to really embrace their religion but very much want to acknowledge it. GROSS: Now, you started your career at the satirical newspaper, The Onion. Mr. KARLIN: I was in college and I was writing for the newspaper, one of the student dailies, there were two. And a bunch of writers from the paper I was working for, which was The Daily Cardinal, had migrated from The Cardinal to The Onion, and The Onion was still very young and new on campus and was kind of becoming more and more popular. And it just seemed like such a more fun place to work. And you could kind of apply what little you did know at age 21 about journalism in a far more creative environment. So once I kind of got a little bored with writing for The Cardinal, I contacted the guys over at The Onion, and they had me submit, and I joined as just an idea contributor and a writer my senior year of college. GROSS: What are some of the favorite headlines that you generated during your years with The Onion? Mr. KARLIN: Well, probably my favorite was "Christ Returns to the NBA," and that was done after Michael Jordan returned to the NBA. And we had this great photo on the cover, which was Jesus just viciously dunking over a bunch of players with this just horrible look on his face. We got a guy who looked like Jesus. And the great thing about that story was, as I wrote it, we put in all these details that Jesus, actually in college, wasn't really that good of a basketball player. Like, he was second team all-conference, and he scored 19 points a game. Like, we had all these great little details that kind of undercut this idea of Jesus being this omnipotent being. That was probably one of my favorites just because the picture is so unbelievably dramatic. GROSS: So do you end the day by actually watching "The Daily Show" and "The Colbert Report" at home on TV? Mr. KARLIN: No. Definitely not. GROSS: Why not? Mr. KARLIN: That's one of the most amazing things. And if it was true about Larry Sanders, the idea of the host or the people who are involved in the production of the show actually going home and watching the show on air that night after five hours earlier watching it being taped is--I can't imagine doing that. The last thing I want to do when I leave the studio is to revisit, not that it's unpleasant, but just because you just need that separation. You just need that. If you're leaving at 8:00 or 9:00 at night and you know you're coming back in the next morning at 9:30, 10:00 the morning, the last thing you want to do at 11:30 is to watch the show again. If, every now and then, if there's something amazing that happened and I want to show it to a friend or something like that, I'll, you now, and I'm with them, I'll do that. But I absolutely do not make a practice of watching the show at home. GROSS: Ben Karlin, thank you so much for talking with us. Mr. KARLIN: Thank you very much. BIANCULLI: Ben Karlin, speaking with Terry Gross earlier this year. Karlin is leaving "The Daily Show" and "The Colbert Report" at the end of the month, but has a book in the works and will remain connected to the Comedy Central shows as a consultant. Coming up, an archive interview with jazz pianist Jay McShann who died yesterday. This is FRESH AIR. (Announcement) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Filler: By policy of WHYY, this information is restricted and has been omitted from this transcript * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Review: Film critic David Edelstein reviews "Blood Diamond" and ""Apocalypto" DAVID BIANCULLI, host: Two new films arrive with controversies attached. "Blood Diamond," starring Leonardo diCaprio, has caused an uproar in the diamond industry by suggesting that many of the gems in the marketplace are from places where their harvest causes violent social upheaval. Mel Gibson's "Apocalypto" has caused an uproar because it's from Mel Gibson, whose anti-Semitic rant was made public after police stopped him while he drove drunk through Malibu. Film critic David Edelstein reviews both movies. Mr. DAVID EDELSTEIN: Two amazingly brutal studio movies, "Blood Diamond" and "Apocalypto," open this week, and both begin with tribal villages savaged by murderous outsiders and a father violently separated from his wife and children. The visions though are different beyond belief. Let's start with "Blood Diamond," an actual term for a gem from a conflict zone. It's Sierra Leone in the mid-90s, and the rebel army, the RUF, enslaves people to work in the diamond fields, then trades the stones for arms. One slave is Solomon, played by Djimon Hounsou, a fisherman whose village they've massacred and son they pressed into their army. Just before the government forces attack, Solomon finds and hides a whopper of a diamond, then lands in jail opposite smuggler Danny Archer, played by Leonardo diCaprio. "Blood Diamond" centers on the shared odyssey of these very different Africans: the sleazy white man desperate for a big score to square his debts with a mercenary colonel, and the Solomonic black man determined to find his son before a sadistic RUF captain turns him into a mindless raping and pillaging machine. The director Edward Zwick and screenwriter Charles Leavitt stamp out mismatched buddy movie fires when they flare up. They keep Danny a cad and Solomon resentful over his country's history of exploitation for its natural resources. For warmth and idealism, they introduce a journalist played by Jennifer Connelly whom Danny approaches at a beachside bar. (Soundbite from "Blood Diamond") (Soundbite of music) Mr. LEONARDO diCAPRIO: (As Danny Archer) Offer you a cigarette? Ms. JENNIFER CONNELLY: (As Maddy Bowen) Oh, I'm--thanks. (Soundbite from radio news) Ms. CONNELLY: (As Maddy) Are you listening to this? (Soundbite from radio news) Mr. diCAPRIO: (As Danny) The last time the world wasn't falling apart, eh? Ms. CONNELLY: (As Maddy) (Unintelligible). Cynic. Now you're going to sit down and make me miserable. Mr. diCAPRIO: (As Danny) Danny Archer. Ms. CONNELLY: (As Maddy) Annie Bone. Mr. diCAPRIO: (As Danny) Pleased to meet you. American, eh? Ms. CONNELLY: (As Maddy) Guilty. Mr. diCAPRIO: (As Danny) Well, Americans usually are. Ms. CONNELLY: (As Maddy) Says the white South African. Mr. diCAPRIO: (As Danny) I'm from Rhodesia. Ms. CONNELLY: (As Maddy) We say Zimbabwe now, don't we? Mr. diCAPRIO: (As Danny) Do we? Ms. CONNELLY: (As Maddy) Last time I checked. Mr. diCAPRIO: (As Danny) So don't tell me you're here to make a difference, eh? Ms. CONNELLY: (As Maddy) And you're here to make a buck? Mr. diCAPRIO: (As Danny) I'm here for lack of a better idea. Ms. CONNELLY: (As Maddy) That's a shame. Mr. diCAPRIO: (As Danny) Not really. Peace Corps types only stay around long enough to realize they're not helping anyone. The government only wants to stay in power until they've stolen enough to go into exile somewhere else and the rebels, they're not sure they want to take over. Otherwise, they'd have to govern this mess, but T-I-A, right, Mid? Unidentified Actor: T-I-A. Ms. CONNELLY: (As Maddy) What's T-I-A? Actor: This is Africa, eh? (End of soundbite) Mr. EDELSTEIN: T-I-A. Fatalism is the real enemy. At heart "Blood Diamond" is a formulaic conversion melodrama in which a sinner regains his soul, and that sinner is pretty charismatic. More and more, we're getting the measure of diCaprio. As sensitive male ingenues, his face looks heavy and slack. But when he's a hot dog, he's a star. Given that it doesn't have a single narrative surprise, it's amazing how compelling "Blood Diamond" is. Maybe its message will even trickle down to Tad and Suzy's engagement ring expedition. Connelly's journalist says, `People back home wouldn't buy a diamond if they knew it cost someone a hand,' and indeed, Zwick gives us a close-up of a hand getting whacked off by machete. Mel Gibson's politics are less on the surface, but watching his "Apocalypto," you realize two things: He's a hell of a filmmaker and his imaginative world borders on the Neanderthal. "Apocalypto" is set in a pre-Christian civilization, around half a millennium ago, among the Mayans. The hero, Jaguar Paw, played by Rudy Youngblood, lives a life of ancient tradition, hunting, raising a family and playing jokes on an infertile friend like tricking him into eating raw tapir testicles. The ribaldry ends when warriors from the decadent materialistic Mayan city savage his tribe, slit his dad's throat, kill or carry off the women and sacrifice the men to their god by marching them to the top of a pyramid and cutting out their hearts in close-up. "Apocalypto" is as intense as all get-out, and you can taste Gibson's relish for the Yukatec Mayan dialect, ancient manly rituals of bowsmen who eat animal organs and stick bones through their noses. Mystical visions of assault and retribution and the agonizing loss and triumphant restoration of potency. When a wounded Jaguar Paw makes his escape into the forest, he takes out his pursuers one by one in ever more resourceful ways so that "Apocalypto" becomes the best "Rambo" movie ever made. The worrisome part is that Gibson is not making an action picture. For him, this is metaphysics. The cycle of assault on the family, hideous torture and holy revenge, that's the way of the world. BIANCULLI: David Edelstein is film critic for New York Magazine. (Soundbite of music) (Credits) BIANCULLI: For Terry Gross, I'm David Bianculli.
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- HALF: Ben Karlin (R) TEN: Karlin contd. (R) Jay McShann (R) Edelstein/Blood Diamond,Apocalypto
- Description
- Fresh Air with Terry Gross, the Peabody Award-winning weekday magazine of contemporary arts and issues, is one of public radio's most popular programs. Each week, nearly 4.5 million people listen to the show's intimate conversations broadcast on more than 450 National Public Radio (NPR) stations across the country, as well as in Europe on the World Radio Network. Though Fresh Air has been categorized as a "talk show," it hardly fits the mold. Its 1994 Peabody Award citation credits Fresh Air with "probing questions, revelatory interviews and unusual insights." And a variety of top publications count Gross among the country's leading interviewers. The show gives interviews as much time as needed, and complements them with comments from well-known critics and commentators. Fresh Air is produced at WHYY-FM in Philadelphia and broadcast nationally by NPR.
- Description
- (1.) BEN KARLIN is executive producer of The Daily Show with Jon Stewart and co-executive producer of The Colbert Report both on the cable channel Comedy Central. It was recently announced that he will be leaving both shows at the end of this month. Before working with The Daily Show KARLIN was an editor of the satirical weekly newspaper, The Onion. He also collaborated with Jon Stewart on his material for The Academy Awards show. (REBROADCAST from 4/4/06) (THIS INTERVIEW CONTINUES INTO THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW). (2.) We remember Kansas City pianist-vocalist-bandleader, JAY Hootie MCSHANN. He died yesterday at the age of 90. He helped refine the blues-tinged Kansas City sound and introduced the world to saxophonist Charlie Parker. Parker played with McShanns orchestra (where he earned the nickname Bird) and made his recording debut on McShanns Hootie Blues in 1941. MCSHANN was the subject of the 1978 film Hootie Blues, and was featured in Clint Eastwoods documentary Piano Blues. He was inducted into the Blues Foundations Hall of Fame, and received the Lifetime Achievement award from the Rhythm & Blues Foundation in Washington, D.C. (rebroadcast from 10/8/87) (3.) Film critic DAVID EDELSTEIN reviews Blood Diamond and Apocalypto.
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- other
- Credits
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Distributor: NPR
Producing Organization: WHYY Public Media
- AAPB Contributor Holdings
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- Citations
- Chicago: “Fresh Air,” American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed May 1, 2025, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-215-77fqzh5h.
- MLA: “Fresh Air.” American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. May 1, 2025. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-215-77fqzh5h>.
- APA: Fresh Air. Boston, MA: American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-215-77fqzh5h