Legendry; Interview with Former Governor Deane Davis on His Career, Part 2 of 2

Good evening and welcome to legendry. This is Frank Anthony. Tonight we hear the second half of my recent interview with former Governor Dean Davis. Why he ran for governor and about the three primary objectives of his administration. Most of all he discusses 250 in detail as the cornerstone of his administrative efforts to further the ecological balance and basic integrity of Vermont and our people here for legendary. Here's former governor of Vermont Dean Davis. Governor Davis welcome to legendary and it's nice to have you here again with us to tell us more specifically what some of the things were that happened

while you were the governor of the state and I wonder if you would just review briefly some of the more significant early memories you had of your campaign and how you got into the governorship of the state of Vermont. Well I was elected in November of 1968 for my first term and was inaugurated the first week in January of 1969 and served 69 and 70 ran again and 70 and was re-elected and served 70. One in seven and 71 72 and 73. So I had four years of service as governor. Who was it that pushed you into running for governor. About 200 different people it came to me for. See I was finishing up my active presidency and chairman of the board ship with a national life. And people began to come to me there in Montpellier and

thought I ought to run for governor. Well at first I thought it was kind of a joke. And then as time went on and they began to discuss with me the reasons I thought I could do something in the governorship I decided that maybe I might as well do it or try it. And I tried it bought the thing that interested me the most about running for governor was the fact that we had a seven million dollar deficit at that time. And I knew from watching what was going on in the state that during the 60s the state of Vermont had passed a whole lot of social programs which were open ended. By that I mean they were the kind of program that nobody knew. How much they were going to expand but everybody that had any sense knew they were going to expand a great deal.

And it was obvious that we were headed for a serious fiscal crisis unless something was done. That's the thing that principally interested me and becoming or trying to become governor I believe strongly in running on a balanced budget. And I believe that if we're going to have programs you must also have the will to pay for them. If you're going to keep a viable government going in a viable society going. And my experience in national life is. Thirty seven years with the company. The large part of which I had to do with the handling budgets and handling people and all that sort of thing I thought possibly I could make a contribution at that time. Other interests came along later but that was my principal interest in national life. How large a company is that how many Well rational life I can give you just a little idea of how a big it is. If you look at the legal reserve life insurance companies in the country there are about

800 of them at the present time and national life is twenty seventh in size. Among those 800 they have a about 800 to 900 people employed in Montpellier. They have about or less than 1000 full time agents all over the country. But they have a lot of brokers and part time people that would aggregate probably thirty five hundred people. They do business in every state in the union. Either insurance business or investment business is one of the other. So your experience in national life I gave you a good background to get into governmental That gave me the executive and managerial experience that I think is very helpful to a candidate for governor. And were you always a Republican. Yes I've always been a Republican. It was act 250 probably the single most

important thing that happened. Well I think it is considered the most important as because of its long term influence upon the state. I have three things that I wanted to do when I finally got to the point of being elected. One I wanted to balance the budget and to start a new attitude of living within our means in the state of Vermont. Secondly I wanted to bring about the reorganization part of which had already been done. But some of which had not yet been done that was recommended by the Little Hoover Commission of which I was chairman back in 1958. And then the third thing was I was suddenly became aware in campaigning around the state I became aware of our needs in the environmental field because at that time our population was increasing in Vermont. People were running away from the highly

populated centers of big cities and so on along the Atlantic seaboard and many of them were coming to Vermont because it was had a small population and had a small town appearance which was a kind of life that a lot of these people wanted to come and our population increased more and I 10 years during 1960 that decade both percentage wise and number wise than at any time in the state of Vermont since the Civil War. And these people who are coming in here with the need to build a lot of the others were coming only as people who are interested in skiing and that sort of thing and they were building second homes. And I became aware of the fact that there was no planning i snot I shouldn't say no planning but there was no no real amount of planning for the

control of our environment in the state at that time. And if you want me to go on further I would just wonder about how hollow the initial idea for ACT 250 came about. Well I think the genesis of act 250 came about from the increasing number of people who began to be concerned about development in Vermont. Not so much the amount of it as the manner in which it was being developed. Let me give an example and one of the things that was very very important to the formulation of my own ideas about 250 while I was campaigning down in in Windham County around the Mt Snow area in towns of Dover and Westminster. I found that there was tremendous development going on there with people who were

buying the lots and they were buying them up on the mountainside where there was a very fragile ecology. The rock came almost to the surface with almost impossible to interrupt or do anything to the soil in those higher elevations without creating Rigolette and flooding and all that sort of thing. There was no chance to provide adequate sewage. There was no chance to build roads that are accepted rather large expense. And I found out on there that there were or there were open sewers there were some of these second homes that cost way up $75000. There are septic tanks were inadequate and sewage was running out into the the beginning roads down there. Furthermore the roads the grade of these roads and the curves of these roads that they were putting in as dirt

was such that it was impossible for big school buses and that sort of thing ever to negotiate them safely. And we all knew of course that eventually many of these second homes would become. First homes for where families would have their children and go to school in the towns would be obligated just the same to provide transportation for these children and the manner in which roads were being put in was terrible in some of those places down there. I can remember in Londonderry being called in near Londonderry to a small development where there were only 100 acres involved and there were a hundred acre lots where were 1 100 1 acre lots were designed on the plan. The roads that were put in were just 6 inches of gravel on Talk of clay and an ordinary soil and a man from Massachusetts was a developer

and he had built two houses or started to build two houses. And he had foundations in both and part of the framing had been done in one and the other one had completed to the point where there was a roof on it a big shower came up lasted for quite a while. Washed all this gravel down across the main road into a farmer's meadow across the way and undermined the foundations of the two houses so that they were tilted at an angle of about 45 degrees lows are just examples of other things that were going on that's what started now. What to Do About It was the big question how do you go about it. Because you did most of your resistance come from the larger developers. Yes it came from the developers and it came at first from the farmers because the

farmers after all in Vermont are men who were brought up to believe that we ought to have as little government has which I believe in also that we ought to have as little government as we can and of course farmers being so dedicated to the land and being their own land they just couldn't conceive of a government's right to come in and tell them how they should use their own land. And you know I had sympathy for them for those people because 10 years ago or even five years before that I think I would have probably had the same attitude. But I had seen what was coming. And I talked with a lot of people in Vermont developers real estate man. Just people who wanted homes and people who'd had some skills in the field of ecology. And gradually it became clear to me that Vermont was one of the states still left that had. An awful lot that could be preserved. You

see so many of our states now have been developed so far that there's been too much you can do after the development has already been done. But here in Vermont we have these acres and acres of land that we ought to be able to find some solution to having the development be done in a reasonable way. Now Act 250 is not designed to stop development act 250 is designed to make the people who develop develop in a reasonable way so that the rights of the public to the maintenance of good living conditions and the maintenance of a good environment in the state of Vermont could be preserved. And as time went on I felt I had to do something about it. As a governor and I called a conference at Montpellier I sent out a letter to 600 people whose names had been developed you know from a variety of sources

who I thought would be interested in the problem and invited the 600 people to come to Montpellier to talk about it. And you know I got answers and acceptances for over from over 500 of them. I think it's the largest. Acceptance in the state of Vermont that was ever it ever happened for a conference just for you send out to people around the state came to Montpelier I had speakers from outside who were skilled in the field of community planning. And they talked to these people and as a result of this this conference there was a proposal made by one of those present that we set up a commission to begin immediately not six months from now but immediately the study of the implementation of a practical act

that that would meet the problem. I pointed the commission immediately it included ecologists it included businessman. It included real estate man developers it had all segments so it was not a it was not a commission that was rigged for or for a particular result. And my hat is off to that commission I appointed Art give away bridge for a month as the chairman and he was a tremendous Chairman. First he was a man who never took a job unless he carried it through and it took almost a year or two to develop. Act 250 has such lots and lots of people had a part to play in the development of the act itself. Mr. Jeffords who is now our congressman was an attorney general he had a lot to do with the legal aspect of

it so also did Jonathan Brown Owl who had formerly had experience in the attorney general's office. But it's difficult to mention names here because there are probably over. Well if you want to include all the people that were at the commission that over 500 people that had to do with forming this thing but act 250 was something that was developed at a time when the state was ready for it. Even though there was a lot of opposition there was an awful lot of people who recognized that something had to be done. Now what is act 250 act 250 is simply a provision that you have to get a permit to build or develop a piece of land. More than 10 acres and it comprises more than 10 acres. And you

have to get it on the 10 acres to less than 10 acres to if the town does not have a talent plan and there are 12 different. Specifications in the act that you have to meet they relate to the soil the permeable of the of the soil. The ability of the soil to sustain structures. The amount of. Of. Of what we call the ecology. Above the rock. It can say it includes economic specifications in other words that it is makes it does not make an unreasonable demand upon town government. All ecological all ecological considerations and of course one of the one of the interesting things that it included

it wasn't thought to have been quite so important back then it has turned out to be a connection with the pyramid mall is a provision that it had to meet if there was a town plan they had to meet the town plan. And if there was a regional plan they had to meet the regions planned to and that I understand I have read the findings I want to read the newspaper but I understand that the findings in the pyramid mall case are based very largely upon the fact that it does not conform to the regional plan which has been in existence in shit and county for some time. Now a lot of people have question at 2:50 from many points of view but a lot of people have said that the result of act 250 is to stop development in the state of Vermont and that has been a sort of a burden imposed upon its economic development.

And I want to if I can just give you a few figures. Please do that that show that they did there's nothing to that. Now the easiest way to show it is to take 1970 as the central point. 1970 is when ACT 2 50 was passed. And we've had seven years of experience since then. Compare what's happened in Vermont economically. During the seven years since act 250 with the seven years immediately preceeding 1970 before we had back to 50. And when you do that and you get the figures and these figures are all available at the development department at the state house in Montpelier. Since act 250 during those seven years 30 percent more new companies have come into Vermont and located here.

Then in the seven years immediately preceding act 250. More than six times as many new jobs have been created in the seven years after Act 250 then were created in the seven years before. Act Two fifty four times as many new plants and plant expansions were built during the seven years after 250 compared with the seven years before. And more than four times as much new capital has been invested in plant and machinery in Vermont in the seven years since act 250 came in. I think that pretty much answers the question that back to 50/50 has been an unreasonable burden upon the economic development in Vermont. Now if we have time I'd like to give you also some information as to what act 250

has really accomplished in the environmental field. Do we have time for that do you think well I'd be more interested in knowing if there are any changes you think should be made and if so how you would suggest going about them. Well I don't actually think that there are any changes that need any substantial changes that need to be made I think. There is one thing I could comment on there is a provision was a provision and still is in act two 50 as it was originally drawn which provided for three state plans a temporary plan statewide. A A. Interim plan c there was a temporary An interim and then a final plan. The interim plan was to called a capability plan which was more or less to be just a plan that. Figured out what kind of land in the state was available for development where it was

and so on. Both of those two early plans were passed by the legislature and signed by me as governor. The third plan the final plan which was to tell everybody whether you could develop this land or couldn't legally has never been passed because there it came into conflict with this feeling that I mentioned before that people feel that that state is going too far. In telling you as the owner of a hundred acres of land what you can do with it. And it looks now politically is all that could not probably be done in the immediate future fortunately. While I'd like to see that plan. I think we can get along without it because I think we have accomplished enough in Vermont which I could give you if we had the time to do it I'm sorry we can't. In results without it so that I'm not unhappy about the situation as it exists today now the real

problem is an administrative problem. When it first started we had so many different departments that were involved in certain aspects of what was basic in getting a permit that people were annoyed and I don't blame them for the time it took and the trouble it took to go to this department in that department of the other. The state is is gradually. It is gradually solving that problem but it is taking more time than I wish it did. Well we discussed this in great detail because I feel that it was certainly one of the more important and the lasting things of course reorganization was another very important thing that you got involved in at a very early stage as was balancing the budget which is now obviously becoming a fact. Yes. And I just wonder though if there is some other thing that we could talk about very

briefly that you might remember as governor before we wrap up our program and wrap up the series. Well of course I like to talk about green up day. Remember I sti stablished that had it three times in my four years. First year we had over 80000 people volunteers out on the road picking up the material of waste and all that sort of thing and if you've been up and down as I know you have our roads in Vermont or Maine Road you know that that's had a lasting effect because you see less debris on our roads than almost any state in the union certainly less than any state that I travel in. Well I think that that is one of the most outstanding things anyone experiences coming into this state of Vermont is the beauty of the state and the care that people take of this state I mean it's outstanding. Surely. Why should young people get into politics and government today. Well people should get into politics today for their own good. To begin with.

For their own happiness for the contribution which they can make to Making Our Democracy Work. And I think people complain about the things that government does. If everybody got into the act we could have the kind of government that the great majority would want. Proposition 13 is the greatest lesson in representative democracy that we've ever had Proposition 13 goes too far of course. But like a lot of things you have to sometimes exaggerate in order to get your point across and apparently you had to do it with a big point in Proposition 13 is right here. If the legislature or the Congress will not cut back in its spending and taxation to meet the will of the people the people have the power to do it directly. And that's what they're doing in Proposition 13. Well Governor I want to thank you very much for being our guest on Legendary and thank you for your two programs and I hope that you can be with us again in the future we have so many

things to cover I think we should have another series yeah. Well Graham's Well I appreciate this very much I've enjoyed it. As I say the only problem is that takes so long to say things and there's so much to say. Thank you very much. Next week. The first part of my recent interview with Blanche Maurice leads legendry into the spirit of Christmas. Thank you for joining us. Have a good evening.