Legendry; Interview with Brother Thomas of the Weston Priory, Part 2 of 2

OK. Oh Oh whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. It was well over there you know the good news here. Oh no you are slow. Oh I knew you know you know me and you you know me. We were you know new woah. Yeah. Good evening. This is Frank Anthony producer of legendry.

Tonight we feature part two of my recent interview with five brothers of the Benedictine Priory in Weston Vermont the Priory was founded 25 years ago by Brother Abbot Leo with the simple beginning of a small farmhouse. Through the years a small group of brothers as a labored and built a priory and to a craft center and spiritual retreat which has become of Vermont legend. Our program tonight focuses on Brother Thomas whose craft of pottery gained national recognition when it became part of the permanent collections of several nationally famous museums. Here is part two of the Western Priory brothers featuring music. My brother Gregory told me he was older. Oh no.

No no. Brother placer in the. I thought that music is entertainment or music is prayer I wonder if you could comment on that. Try to Frank I think that in our society and in our culture we've been brought up with the feeling that music is simply a entertainment as you say it's not something that I enter into to express how I feel at least with others. And I think that the same thing with prayer again we've brought up been brought up with the notion that prayer is such an individualistic thing is something I do in my room. Whereas the tradition as we've guided from Scripture and certainly has it's been celebrated in most religious cultures in throughout the world and especially in the gospel tradition has always been a unifying reality bringing

people together to celebrate and to express together their thanks. And that so much of this has always been expressed in music the joyfulness the hopefulness that music brings into people's lives is a shared reality. This is something that we share with one another that we express to one another. Again it's a gift we offer to one another. Well this certainly is one of the important experiences that people can have when they come here to the Priory. And one of the other experiences of which of course there are many one of the other experiences is the experiencing of the crafts that you're all involved in and I wonder if we could talk just a bit now about the craftsmanship and what the crafts mean to you as brothers here at the Priory. I suppose once again you can look at that question in several different ways the meaningfulness called Arts or crafts in our community. But I like

to see it as expressions perhaps of our our evaluation and that we that we do evaluate the presence of beauty in our life. Maybe Art is one way of making that a present to us that beauty has always been a value in our particular life here. Weston Priory. But it's also been a very traditional value in the in the Benedictine life of the Benedictine monk over the centuries. I've always found the nicest spot in the area to put their monastery up. They've always had beautiful buildings and beautiful things in their buildings. Not just for the sake of having it. Kind of decorations in their community but really a recognition that the Beautiful is a very fundamental part of the human life. And I think that we here in the community. Certainly feel that

beauty is a very fundamental part of our life. It does in a way like prayer you speak of the presence of God in our life. I think it was the poet Rilke e who said Beauty would save the world. I don't know if I'd go as far as to say that but it certainly would be a strange world without beauty. Well Brother Thomas I had the opportunity of studying under Benedict and at St. John's University and College of film and I sort of as I mentioned to you and it seemed to me that there everything was done by the monks at the university and they specialized of course in teaching as you know. Would you compare your own particular craft the craft of pottery How would you compare that in some way that that endeavor was similar to what the Benedictines were doing some of them at the University of St. John's.

I'm not sure I understand your question entirely since you related to teaching. I have no concern or interest whatsoever and in teaching anybody anything I simply want to reflect through my work. My experience here in community as I mentioned before that particularly the experience of love and freedom which I find here and I think that enables me to touch and be present to to the beautiful. Not simply the beautiful around me because we are surrounded by beauty but I think the beauty that inside of myself as a person and the beauty that inside of others. And while I'm no theologian I think that the presence of God in the world around us is so manifest in nature in the beauty of nature around us. But it has also to be made present as a sign of God's life in us as persons. And I think beauty is one way of expressing it. I think there are

other ways of being. The value of truth of freedom and of love and faithfulness those are other ways I think of making God present in the world through us. Well I think when I was thinking about teaching what I probably was trying to get at was the idea that the greatest teachers have probably been those who have taught by example. And when something is perfected whether it's pottery or whether it's photography or whatever it is one by the act of putting forth something before you know his fellow man has set forth his example. And the more beautiful and the more harmonious that example is it seems to me that the more lofty and the higher the teaching is wouldn't you say. You know I guess I'd have to agree with that but I don't know as I find that a personal concern of mine to teach.

I think it's more to express and to witness hopefully rather than to teach anybody other prophets have comments. There's something I was feeling here a few moments back also with regard to what I think I hear Frank trying to share with us and ask of us and that is has something to do with joy or beauty. And what I experience is that there's something about beauty and wholesomeness and integrity and harmony which seems to flow from the brothers hearts in the context of pottery or woodworking milling or or bread baking and. Read book bindings and cultivating the land that brings me joy. I mean Brother Thomas's roses are just a wonderful gift at the right moment for the community and for friends when when they're there. And that's that's a transcendent quality. And I think that that's the kind of quality in our life that we cannot do

without that humanity cannot do without. To find moments of joy and of beauty that really are transcendent. Take us beyond simply what is here the human heart rises and dances and and flies. And I think we have to have those moments and in that sense I think we are all teachers for one another. That that's the great tradition somehow of of all the prophets and the teachers of the Old Testament and of Jesus and all the the the wonderful people of the New Testament that we really cannot do without joy. We have to struggle through life sometimes we have to work hard. There are tears with our bread sometimes but the moments that lift us beyond that when we really want to dance or swim or sail or flyer or whatever when we cap capture when we can recognize beauty in our life and the need for it. Then I think we're really different people and I think that's in a sense the way that we

are our community teachers. I think you know it gives me a little more insight into what Frank may be meaning by his question and teaching. Perhaps there's also a way of teaching people what they already know but already in them as persons. I think we come to think of teaching is teaching us or telling us something we don't know. But maybe this kind of teaching is helping to reveal to people things which are already in them which they know but are not aware of. And I think maybe that's the role of and the role of what we are really up to. Has it ever occurred to your brother Thomas that perhaps the artist also has a prophetic role. Not only I Francis for me I don't see art in artists so much on the teaching level as on the level of prophecy. I think it is as we understand it I would say yes

but somebody's going to have to explain how we understand. It. I wonder if I might prevail upon you to speak just a little bit about Brother Thomas about the visit you made to Japan and what you saw of the Potters there and if you would tell us just a bit about what it means to be you know regarded as a treasure of the country of Japan and what it means for a potter to be in that category. Lee but I'd start by saying that the trip to Japan was a gift to me from the community going to Japan is like going back to the cradle of the which I'm involved in because that's where it originated in the world. And that going there I had primarily an aesthetic reason to see most of the people that we met in

Japan. I think that Americans go there for technical reasons they want to learn about the techniques of pottery but that wasn't my motivation in going was entirely aesthetic. And when we divided it into three three directions to visit the great collections of the museums in Japan. Also to visit pottery towns whole towns in Japan which are devoted to the making of pottery. And while many of them are contemporary and have industrialized techniques and industrialized products there are many which are still working in the ancient hand techniques which came from Korea and China as early as the 14th and 15th century. And the third goal that we had in going there was to meet living parters and through the help of the American embassy we were able to gain introductions to five or six of Japan's most distinguished parters men

whom the country is recognised as great values to them and to the country of Japan and have designated as national treasures national treasures in Japan of this. These Potters were her her people whole whom as I mentioned the government girds as treasures in themselves and they actually call them living treasures. The idea of recognizing great artists in their midst. Strangely enough originated with General MacArthur. He was the one who instituted the idea for the Japanese government because he felt that it would be a great loss to Japan if in their post Second World War recovery these great crafts were to be lost and he recognized that they resided only in persons. And so he encouraged the government of Japan to institute this living national treasure to

retain those crafts. And it was with many of these current national treasures that I visited along with several other brothers while we were in Japan and it turned out to be really the highlight of the trip. One an experience which I enjoyed very much and benefited from very much because we had a kind common ground of meeting and I think that common ground of meeting contained a lot of what we've been talking about just now. Those meaning those values which are meaningful to the human person basically and fundamentally. Why did you feel Brother Thomas that the pottery that you saw there reflected a way of life. Or did you feel that it reflected anything else that was kind of special to you. Well I think it reflected a way of life. The Japanese life of course it also reflected a tradition very traditional minded people

and I felt that that was a great insight that they're not particularly innovative in their work as they are here in the United States as Potter's United States. They stick pretty close to traditions although there are a lot who are a little more contemporary and a little more inventive. But generally speaking I thought that that value was a very beautiful thing to encounter. And they're very strongly moved by it not just Potters and maybe not even just collectors of potters but the people as a whole. They have a very highly developed sense of what is beautiful and they will save money to buy something beautiful for their home and for themselves the way in which we would save money to buy a house or to buy a car. Well then the end result of their pottery is that it is sold to private individuals or does some of it go to museums.

I think with respect to these national treasures a lot of it goes to museums but certainly I would think the greater number of it goes just ordinary individuals. It's been an extraordinary experience for the community to share in the trip. Three brothers went along with brother Thomas but I think another way in which we've all shared is with the photography that brother Andrew was able to bring back with him his own photographs of these these living treasures and the treasures which they they have created. And I think that they really are truly beautiful. But I think that it's also important it has been important for us to recognize that the pottery which we have here of our own is perhaps equally as beautiful at least in our own eyes. And. Maybe brother Thomas wouldn't say that but I think that is something that the community feels and I think we say that knowing that it is particularly his gift. But as with all other gifts in the community they really are community gifts that we really speak about ourselves when we

speak about a brother's particular gift. And I think the quality that we find in them and the beauty and the integrity is something that we also felt he must have experience in witnessing the great masters who are living in Japan. I was one of the brothers who went on the trip with Brother Thomas and the other brothers and one of the things that I was impressed with so very much was when meeting many of the people but especially the living national treasures most of whom were 80 80 or over. We were we were welcomed with great warmth. But we did take along with us a portfolio of Brother Thomas's work something that Brother Andrew had taken photographs of some of the pods and for the Lawrence made a special box in the bindery for them. And when we offered to show this to the Potters something really wonderful happened. They seem to light up as if something very special

was taking place. And I think in all our interviews or sharing with these people everything changed. Once that was opened up and they they were able to see Brother Thomas's work. I have a feeling maybe a lot of potters come from the States to visit maybe ask technical questions etc.. Well these people must meet a lot of them. But once they saw where the Thomases portfolio a new world seemed to open up and they seemed to be communicating on a completely different level than what I expected. That was a real meeting of artists of creativity a meeting of cultures and of the Spirit. And while I greatly admired many of the work that many of the works that these Potters had which they showed us I really felt that. They were all one with our own work because the level of beauty and the creativity that I experienced both in Brother Thomas's work and in their work I felt was one and the beauty was one and I really felt a

great joy in that that are both our own culture and through Brother Thomas and these men in the Japanese culture were able to meet at that level. Well I know we all remember that Keats said truth is beauty beauty is truth and that is all you need to know. And I just wonder if there's some correlation here if if when something is truly beautiful a truly beautiful work of art a poem. A beautiful vase a beautiful photograph or anything of that nature I wonder if perhaps this is the point where some kind of spirituality and some kind of truth begins to work its way into our lives. Perhaps I could add to the expression of Keats that Martin Buber's and all the world is summed up in meeting. And I think in art as well as in many other things that we've been discussing here are opportunities for people to meet. And I feel that's a great deal of what our experience in

Japan was and it was not really anyone teaching anyone else. But it was a real meeting and standing on a common ground which we recognize intuitively and which I think as persons that we have to remove the blocks to really to really meeting into really standing on that common ground. Well I know Brother Thomas this is a question that's been in my mind many times is that often you meet a person that you feel you relate with you feel that you know there's something beautiful that can happen but there are blocks there are. Psychological or some kind of problems that come later in the person's mind and the thought that always comes into my mind is that how do you begin to think about removing these blocks when you feel that they're there. I think for myself and I'm sure there again there are many ways of approaching that. But I

think to be able to present to people the opportunity to see that very clearly. I know I have in the experience of people coming to see the pottery persons who come in immediately they recognize the beautiful in it. And I have on the other hand people come and say What do you use it for. And I feel that that the second type automatically has a a block there to seeing the beautiful somewhere along the line of their life they've been trained to see things in terms of usefulness and not in terms of values in themselves. And I always have much more feeling for those people and I don't get uptight about responding to them or feel I don't want to show them my work. I feel more open to them and spend more time with them showing the more and more of the pottery. But I don't think you can force that recognition on anybody. I think that once you present it to them you

witness to them witness those witness to those things before them that it raises the opportunity and the possibility for them to activate their own natural gift of intuition and to be able to see it. It's not something that you can teach. And if you do try to teach it you destroy it. But you have to constantly and patiently make that available to others. I have to do it with myself every time I open a new kill load as I did recently. I have to be patient with myself because there are a lot of things there which I can see as failures either failures or I can see them as learning opportunity. And when I least patient I see them as failures. And when I'm more patient I see them as opportunities to learn something else. I just opened the killer part this morning. I don't know how I got that color and it wasn't what I was looking for but it seems to me to be an opportunity to discover and to expand the expression of the beautiful a little more so it becomes a

great challenge for me. I may be working on that one inch spot for the next two years but it seems to me it's another way into a deeper experience of those values that we're speaking of the beautiful and the true. Brother placid You seem to be the younger of us here at least by appearance. So before we close our program I'd like to ask you what persuasion or what brought you to the Priory. Well I think in the concrete it was the brothers after I had met them. I felt that these were the people that I wanted in my life. If they would if they wanted me. And then I think on another level I always felt that I was looking for happiness and that I found these people and I realized that I could be a happy person for the rest of my life and that for myself the

Gospels and the spirit could become a reality in my life. I want to thank you all very much for sharing your lives and of your thoughts your feelings with the radio audience of Vermont Public Radio I feel it is a privilege to be able to come into your home and speak to you and to listen to these very interesting and very lovely things and. I'm going to put Brother Thomas on the spot by asking him to close with a final remark that we can all take with us. I'm not sure what you can say that is final to anything Frank but I think with the other brothers we'd like to thank you for the opportunity to maybe to express something of our life some small glimpse of our life with a few more people in a different way through radio and that we are certainly. A community that's open to all

people. People in Vermont and people in our state in our area and the people in our country. And we would like your listeners to realize that they're always welcome to visit us here at the prayer. Well thank you all very much. Thank you for joining us on legendry. With the western Vermont primary.

This is Frank Anthony inviting you to join legendry at a new time next weekend Saturday at 7:00 p.m. immediately following all things considered this Saturday we are featuring Professor Margot Peters who will be talking about women in biography and her award winning subject Charlotte Bronte a legendary at a new time on Saturday at 7:00 p.m. Thank you and good evening. Good post lolo slowly you soloed. Boy told the Los Lobos. Lol.