The Rochester I Know; 129; Thomas Gosnell

Oh. I am. WXXI presents the Rochester. I know this series of interviews with notable residents of Monroe County and contributors to this area's rich history. Your host is William Pierce. Hello and welcome to the Rochester I know. Our guest today is Thomas Gaza now president of the lawyers cooperative publishing company. Mr. Gaza now is known for his active role in development of downtown Rochester including the resurrection of the statue of mercury on top of the aqueduct building. Tom welcome to our program. The Rochester I know or the Rochester you know Well Bill it's a pleasure to be here. You ARE YOU are one of those people and your organization is one of those organizations that indeed does have a rich history in this community.

Lawyers cooperative publishing. We know celebrated its 100 and a virtually just this past year nineteen eighty two eighty three. I wonder if you could give us some idea of how it all got started. Well we are very fortunate that we have been in this community for in our hundred years. We actually were started as two organizations. There was a printer who happened to be my great grandfather and that's why I'm really here. Well he was Ezra Randall Andrews. And he was born in the community in about 18 28 and at 14 he started being a printer and by 1870 why he had his own print shop was that here in Rochester that was here in Rochester. And one day he was on his way to Albany looking for some business for his Browning organization and he came upon a gentleman on the train named. James Briggs who was going to Albany to find a printer. And happily the

two had a pleasant meeting on the train and Mr. Briggs concluded that he had a nice Brader here in Rochester and the two got together to publish the first set of books that the Lawyers Co-operative publishing company ever produced which was the United States Supreme Court reports. Mr. Briggs was a lawyer from Newark and Libby was a lawyer from nowhere. What motivated him. Well he had been involved in a railroad merger. I think with Harriman and he had had to come to Rochester on a regular basis because that was the only place they had a set of United States Supreme Court reports and he found it a great nuisance and he suspected that there were a lot of lawyers that needed the United States Supreme Court reports and did not have them available they were just plain not exist and or too expensive. And so. He and a number of his friends solicited from the general bar. An

inquiry whether they'd like to subscribe to a complete set up it could be produced and the response to that was tremendous and as a result that was the subscription list that first started the company. That was pure happenstance that happened be on the same train as your grandfather and great grandpa great grandfather that brought about the law. It was certainly a happy happenstance for me because otherwise I wouldn't be a publisher today. You might be a printer. I probably I might have been a printer that Drew. How did the company develop then after that they met or they met and. The company as I say first had this one product and now we of course have a product list as long as your arm. And we evolved in the Monroe County Metropolitan area downtown Rochester is where we started for a lot not in the present building not in the present building. Now the print shop was in one building the editorial division was in

another and the white binding company was and still a third. And it was my grandfather William B Hale who bought the aqueduct building which is our present facility at the turn of the century about 1900 you can you moved into the act. Why did they call the aqueduct building. I think that was the name that the building had because it was immediately contiguous to the barge canal which went over the river in an aqueduct. Just south of the building. So when you originally when they started in that building the canal boats were still pay what is now a broad street used to be the bridge to now and I was once scolded by my mother but when I told somebody that she learned to skate on the barge canal and mother said that I had certified her age on the air. So here I've done it again. You will hold that against you all the operations at that time were in this so-called aqueduct building. Yes that was the purpose they wanted to concentrate everything in one complex and they bought

the aqueduct building for that purpose. The lawyers cooperative publishing company now been in existence for 100 years but I'm sure there are many many folks and I'm one of them who aren't quite sure exactly what the lawyers cooperative publishing company does or what if you could explain it. Well it's our objective to serve the bench and bar of the land. We tried to publish various series of books that make the lawyers job easier. We have publications that deal with the law in depth. We have publications that deal with the law on a broad based aspect that explains. Things and then we also have a series of of. Books that are the codes that we have a federal code we have a New York state code a California code a number of others which give the codes of the several States lawyers cooperative publishing rank as a as a publisher of

legal tomes if you will. Well I guess we would say that we are the largest public publisher of analytical books. That is to say that have a significant editorial content. We do not publish. The case law as a totality we only publish the verbatim transcript of the cases of a few of the states and the United States Supreme Court reports. Tom a few years ago you went through a renovation of the of the present aqueduct you still called the aqueduct as we call it the act of a renovation of the aqueduct building with some other improvements in the area and I want to take a minute or two to tell us why you personally supported that kind of improvement why you didn't move out of town and build a new building. Well at one time we had the ad to raise the question as to whether we wanted to move out of town. We decided that. Roger was a pretty nice place

and all we had to do really was to get ourselves the room in this building to continue to function as a headquarters facility. So we moved our printing binding and distribution to a new building and Webster and that gave us the space we needed to expand our editorial function our marketing function and the accounting function and the executive function so that this is now functioning as a headquarters building and doing a very nice job of that. If our research is correct I was led to believe that your your your printing facility and Webster is one of the most modern and one of the very earliest organizations in the area to use computer services or computerized binding or whatever. When we were downtown. We use hot metal mesh metal on a tight machines to do outside all our type. As we began moving to Webster we converted to computerized typesetting

and now the Webster computers can accept material from California or Lansing Michigan or New York City or Rochester and it simply comes in a telephone wire and the computer is today's Lana type machine and you are one of the first to get into that. Yes we were one of the first. We joined forces with IBM and they asked us to be what they call a beta test site for the development of their computerized typesetting system. Tom Dell in concert with your refurbishing of the of your aqueduct building you also put a statue up on top of it built a nice park I want if you could give us a little background on both those items are the statue of course started just across the bridge to now which is now Broad Street on top of the Campbell tobacco factory smokestack. And I remember seeing it come down and I was always sorry to see it come down as we're a member of a large number of the people in the company and so we

tried for many years to get it so we could put it back up on top of our building. This was in in the mid 70s. The only thing I guess we tried several times to get it. Mercury as you know is among other things the God of Commerce. I first tried to to get it out of the warehouse and put on top of our building when Steve was man and he said Why damn I am never going to give a thing like this to a commercial enterprise. Fortunately when Meron came along he saw it differently and he let me have it. We put it up thanks to him. It's a remarkable story. How about the park that you built down there and what you call the park between Main Street and all the park the aqueduct park and that has been a very popular development both for our employees and the people who work in this general community. I think we have large numbers of folk there. Have a pleasant

day for lunch and sometimes throughout the day. You've seen some remarkable changes in Rochester you were born in this area you grew up and going back a couple generations all your info you come from this area. What stands out in your mind when you when you look at the changes in Rochester over the years. Well I guess there's been a number of changes I think one of the nicest things was when they took the commercial buildings off the main street bridge so that you could see the river. I enjoy seeing the Reverend I think it is a huge improvement that have that was in the 50s. I would imagine 15 years ago something like that. Why did they ever put them on the bridge to begin with they with all that occurred before I would be around to argue about it. You had nothing to do with that. Nothing to do with that I think. You've been a prime mover in the Republican Party in this community over the years I presume the politics of the area has a

taken a good deal of your time I know you were treasurer of the Republican Party for how many years. I don't know 12 to 15 I'm still a treasure. I beg your pardon. And I won't say that I'm a prime mover I'm interested in trying to help make politics function effectively in the in the community and I hope that I've been able to contribute something to that. Have you seen our political conventions not meaning people getting together but our attitudes change over the years since you first got active in politics or became interested in politics. Well I hope that we're getting to persuade people that it's important to involve themselves in politics I think to make a democracy work its continues to be important that we get a broad participation as we can. And I think the way we have 31 communities towns and villages around each have a political involvement is a good thing. When whenever you get a group of folks in the community talking about local politics or

community leadership someone invariably brings up the fact that oh 15 20 25 years ago decisions could be made in the community much easier because two or three people could get together and say this is what we're going to do and this is. And they did it. That is that myth. Well remember in the days of the two Karls And I think you're speaking about them they were a fine gentleman. Those would be Carl hower and Carl Nixon. We were pretty much a one party system at that moment. And it was Republican Party Republican Party. And I think when it's just a one party system it's possible to do things in the manner you describe more certainly than it is with a two party system and I must say I prefer the two party system approach. Ed So you're not keen on Metropolitan ization of many of the services that oh I won't be I won't say that I had all I say as I like to keep the towns and villages that we have surrounding the community because I think that

gets an important participation from a lot of the local citizens and I think that's a useful thing to have the population of Rochester is actually gone down somewhat over the years because of the suburban sprawl not unlike many communities. Tom and I know you're aware of that growth. You were born in the city but you live in the South I was born in the city but my family always had a place in Webster and so I lived in the city in the winter time when I was going to school and I lived in Webster in the summertime. There's been kind of no growth in the area for all practical purposes I wonder how you how you view that. I would say we've expanded we have expanded at a more modest rate than some communities but I think it's been a healthy expansion in terms of expansion how is lawyers cooperative publishing done in that in the past hundred years with threats to employees. Well we started with a very small number of them and now

nationally we have about twenty three hundred. So you know we've come quite a ways over time. Your offices are branches and which other cities where we have our two principals or city areas are the Research Institute of America in Manhattan and metropolitan New York and the Bancroft-Whitney Company of San Francisco. You've been very active in many community enterprises that have to do with the arts and culture of the area. Do you foresee a resurgence in the city itself. Well I sort of think so. It will not surprise me at all if gradually people don't start moving back downtown. And as that begins to happen I think that will increase the resurgence of the arts. As you know we've got them our art gallery the Strong Museum the Eastman House International Museum of Photography and the planetarium and. Now the new Strong Museum.

So there are there are a number of strong things that have been redeveloped in the downtown area which I think will add to. They are it's a measure of what this program is about. The Rochester you know or the Rochester. I know you grew up going to school in the city living which I guess was a farm community certainly then. And Webster what what the early memory you have about this community and what was it like in the city and and in Webster and at the 23 school and of course I walked to school the school of 23 is where on Barrington Street just off Park Avenue at that time you live in Vassar and rats. So I could walk to school on this stuff and walk to school and walk back home. Seems to me we had homework then they do today. What did you do for pastime that besides skate on the canal. Well. I remember there were a lot of kids in the neighborhood and we'd get around

play ball and roller skate and ride our bikes. Same thing kids do today. So far as you're concerned not much is changed and and well I guess that each of the communities have changed a little bit I don't know whether what 23 schools like right now. Webster I think has had a considerable rote been there the number of resident people year round. As I say I started living there only summers now I live there the year around as do most folks. You mentioned earlier but your your your long service with the Republican Party and the fact that you're still Treasurer you've seen County Republican chairman come and go. And I wonder if you've seen any changes in the in the party over the years or I guess everything seems to be the almost the same I started with Dick Rosen and then had Graham on that for a while and Bill Dwyer

for a while and now Rahm Starkweather. And they've always done their job better than I. My job is to raise it their job is to spend it. That's that. That's a that's something we'd like to learn that we do exec's the raising raising money. You obviously get a great deal of pleasure out of supporting a party and raising at night and I'd presume you're an advocate of party affiliation and party involved. I certainly am an advocate of party involvement. And what would you say that's falling off nowadays or. Oh I hope not I think I see at least in a number of the young people that they want to get interested in politics and I think that's healthy and very important. You and your well not only on your one hundredth anniversary celebration but but every year your organization lawyers cooperative publishing sponsors a wonderful session with Mr. Leo churnalism. I guess an economist what if you could tell us a

little bit about the background and why they get so much community Rochester attention for that annual event. Well I think that is because of personality and his ability as a speaker. You might call it what that event is sensational gentleman. And I guess for the past 40 years now almost He has spoken at the Waldorf Astoria to the sales executives club in New York City. And he has given a projection of the economic affairs the business the international affairs and the general state of the nation for the coming year. And as we became associated with the resurgence of do we asked him to come to Rochester and do it for us too. And he was kind enough to agree. And so it has proved as popular here as it doesn't in our city that usually takes place.

What time of year. I think he usually like to do it about the middle of December. Now you mention the Research Institute. That's one of your subsidiary what Yeah but what's the function of that. Well the research institute does two things they have two principal divisions. One is the Tax Division which is responsible for preparing a major tax service for the bench and bar of the country together with the accounting profession. They also deal with federal regulatory law. And the other division is the. Membership division which produces a series of newsletters produces a number of business advisory services and things that help guide the business man and his general workaday world. The lawyers cooperative publishing has seen. Probably what my term excellent growth over the years and we've had a very nice growth over the and better of year. What do you see in the future in terms of

other activities that you may well we're going to work very hard indeed to continue our growth pattern. As you mentioned earlier we have been deeply involved in computerized typesetting for a number of decades and this means that everything we publish is available in machine readable form. So we also have developed a system of computerized access to some of our databases. And this is developing on a very on a very significant basis with our customers. Is it fair to say that it would be very difficult for a lawyer to get along without one or several of your publications. We hope that no lawyer gets along without some of our publications. We hope that most get along with a lot of them. And sales are not only national but worldwide. Well I think we'd best say our sales are basically national. We do have some subscriptions overseas. But remember we are reporting the

case of the United States and interpret in the case of the United States and resenting the United States code in the code of the several States and that doesn't have a huge market overseas. Would would you would your publishing publication differ from actually from state to state would you publish. Oh it would be quite different from state to state. So you may have 50 different publications one for each state because the state codes. We have certain different publications in each state we regrettably don't have a state an official state code for every state we have it for a number of them. But in most states we have certain special publications for that local area in addition to our national line. Is there any legal area that you don't publish in. Lawyers Co-operative. Well I guess we are not as competitive with commerce clearinghouse as we'd like to be but I think we'll get there. Commerce Clearing

House and that's a federal regulatory services. And but you're starting to publish with that organization. We are federal tax service is competitive with theirs. We have over taken from us all we've not yet overtaken. Now your family has been in this community now what a hundred fifty years. Well I believe my great grandfather on my mother's side was born here in eight to 28 and his father arrived in the community in 1812 so been here quite a while quite a while. Would be interesting to go back in and dig out some story from grandfather and great grandfather that we don't have time for that. But you certainly know the history of this area. I wonder if you'd care to take a minute or so and reflect on what you think the future of this area is and where the growth is like likely to come from

Rochester and I think we've always had a very strong industrial base and I certainly hope we continue I'm glad to see a number of new companies start up here and I certainly think we're indebted to companies like Eastman Kodak who continue to have this their headquarters city. We enjoy having at our headquarters city. And I think that. One of the blessings of Rochester is that we have always had home grown and home loan industry and I hope that so continues to be. And as far as you're concerned that will never change in terms of areas we're concerned that won't change. You employ I presume a flock of lawyers. Yes we do. And what are the kinds of specialist work for lawyers cooperative publishing doesn't face we have some well viewers a lot of approaches I don't think we have specialists we have people who are able to produce. A significant editorial treatise on any subject of the law. Sometimes we do them here in Rochester sometimes we do them in New York City and sometimes it's the West Coast.

Bancroft-Whitney group that are assigned a specific project but we think all three of the houses could do most anything if the need arose. York mostly does taxes but Rochester and San Francisco are almost interchangeable in their skill. So writing is important. Oh they have to be able to express themselves on paper. With that's legally language well I guess I'd have to say it's it's has to be in the language that is appropriate for the lawyer and the way he would expect to have his material presented on its printing. It's still much in demand and the printing skills still in demand in your business. Well. The computer does our typesetting and the computer also does. The proofreading.

And but the we do have a press room that's the same or press room as you might expect in from any other predator it's out there all web sites but they're Other than that their new machines their standard equipment. Tom guys Nell thank you very much for being our guest today lawyers cooperative publishing company has had certainly a long history here in Rochester and I would say that one of the city's oldest oldest companies. Well I guess if you count the earning company going back even a little behind the publishing company that would certainly be true. Congratulations on 100 years. Our guest today has been Mr. Thomas president of lawyers cooperative publishing company. I'm Bill Pierce. Join us next time for the Rochester I know. Thank you for being with us. And.

For a VHS copy of those programs and 1995 plus three dollars and fifty cents shipping and handling to the Rochester on no tape off or post office box 21 Rochester New York 1 4 6 0 1. Include a note with the name of our guest and the program number shown at the bottom of the screen.