The Rochester I Know; 403; Eugene Shaw

If your career with the Brighton Police Department started in the early 1950s, a gun, a badge, and a little on the job training were what it took to protect 12,000 people and a lot of deer. There was crime. Some of it violent. But before the advent of 2- way radios, a phone or better yet your own common sense were the only ways out of danger. If you stayed with the police department into the '60's, you witness steadily more brutal murders, riots in the city and campus unrest at MCC. If you're Eugene Shaw you saw all of that and far more. Today the former Brighton Police Chief talks with Bill Pierce about the Rochester he knows. [Pierce] Hi, I'm Bill Pearce. My guest today is Gene Shaw, Police Chief in the Town of Brighton for 22 years and that ain't all, as they say in the business. Gene, we've got to, we have to go back and find out you know how you got how you got started. Did you grow up in Brighton? [Guest] No, I grew up really in the Town of Greece. And ah I lived in Koda Vista which is off the Ridge Road opposite Stone Road. [Pierce] Koda Vista? [Shaw] Koda Vista it was a subdivision of Eastman Kodak Company, I guess, helped sponsor the finance, the mortgages and

things like that. [Pierce] Oh it was like a company town? [Shaw] Apparently. [Pierce] Now were were you in the a Koda Vista house? [Shaw] Yes. [Pierce] Uh huh. [Shaw] And ah [Pierce] And that's near where today? [Shaw] That's Ridge and Stone Road [Pierce] Ridge and Stone Road, what's there now? [Shaw] Well, I'm trying to think. There's a Howard Johnson's I believe sitting on the corner, Hall Funeral Home is on the Ridge there. There was a Holiday Inn that burned down when the fires broke 12-15 years ago. [Pierce] Is that where the Veerholtz Farm Market? [Shaw] Veerholtz Farm Market ah. [Pierce] Was it that was that there then when you were [Shaw] That was closer to Mt. Read Boulevard, about a half a mile up the road going towards the city. I worked for those boys there on a farm when I was a young kid a [Pierce] For Veerholtz? [Shaw] Yeah, for Veerholtz for a 50 cents a day. [Laughs] [Pierce] Great great sum then-- a whole half a buck. [Shaw] It was early '40's. [Pierce] Yeah, uh uh. Now you're you're growing-up in um Greece. You go to elementary school. [Shaw] I went

to Hoover Drive School in Greece; it was called Greece Central Number 1 at that time. [Pierce] Yeah. What do you remember remember about that? [Shaw] I think it was of some of the nicest days in my life. [Pierce] Really? [Shaw] Yeah. [Host] What did you do? [Guest] Well we [Host] Besides Besides being incarcerated in Hoover School? [Laughter] [Shaw] Well, there was a lot of things to do, ah Willis M. Britain. It was named the Willis M. Britain School and ah, he had a big house a right up on the Ridge Road right there and he was a farmer. Had I can remember the ax heart cherry trees and we used to sit in the trees in the summertime eating our fill of cherries and getting sick afterwards and then there a- a was a pond ah that ah was wasn't too far from there and ah. The pond now at Eastman Kodak is build all through where the ponds were, but they used the gravel from the pine to a help build Ridge Road. Ridge Road, when I was just a youngster, it was a 2-lane highway and I watched it go from a 2-lane highway and a 3-way highway and 4-way highway. [Pierce] Ridge Road now

is one long commercial strip. What was that it then? [Shaw] It wasn't that way then. [Pierce] What was it, farmland? [Shaw] Pretty much farmland and residential along the Ridge Road there and I remember ah being in the Boy Scouts there at the Hoover Drive School, And Memorial Day we used to parade from the Greece Town Hall down to the little cemetery there at the corner of Lee Road and ah Ridge Road. And ah it was it was fun; it was very, I think people were closer together at the time and ah. [Pierce] Did you go out to the Lake as a kid very much? [Shaw] My grandmother used to, who resided with us, had a car an old '36 Ford and she used to drive us down to Island Cottage and we went to the Lake. It was, you know, maybe once or twice a year that we would do that. [Pierce] Did did you did you go in swimming? [Shaw] Went in swimming, yeah. [Host] Now is that the is that the beach or what is now Charlotte? [Guest] No, ah. [Host] Where is Island Cottage Cottage? [Shaw] Island Cottage Road I believe is a little further to the west. [Pierce] Uh uh.

[Shaw] In fact, Greece Police have their, one of their their headquarters at Island Cottage Road right where that ran into ah Beach Avenue or the extension to Beach Avenue. [Host] And you went to high school in Greece, too? [Guest] Went to Marshall High School we were [Host] Oh in the City! [Guest] Right. We were the free school district we had a choice of a graduation from grammar school of either going to Spencerport High School or Marshall High School, and- [Pierce] Now tell me again, the free school district was what in Greece? [Shaw] Greece. [Pierce] And that meant if you what if you reside in that district you could go to Greece or City schools. [Shaw] Right. [Pierce] And then what? [Shaw] Greece had no high school. [Host] Really. [Guest] We either had to go to Spencerport or to ah the City School. Marshall High was a my choice. [Pierce] What was Marshall like then? Now was this the '40's? [Shaw] This was the '40's. It was great; it was almost like a you know fairly new school. And at least as far as I was concerned and ah it wasn't that far from home if you know about 3 miles. [Pierce] How did you get there? [Shaw] Used to ride a bus for

a nickel. [Laughter] [Pierce] Who was the principal? [Shaw] Well, ah gentleman by the name of Snyder. And vice principal was a gentleman by the name of Burke who ah wound up a as the principal of West High School later on. [Pierce] Any you you're- You had classmates at Marshall High, obviously, did you grow-up with some, or some still here, do you remember any of the-? [Shaw] There are some that are are still around. [Pierce] Who were some of your classmates? [Laughter] [Shaw] That's growing back. Ah Hans Gross, in fact, I just ran into him the other day. He went to Marshall High School. Ah a lot of them passed away. [Host] Uh uh. [Guest] But I can remember the Bensons and the Sprys. An awful lot lot of people. I played soccer; we had the Mayfield brothers, he was a good swimmer and then the Schaefer brothers seemed to win every swimming contest

in the state. When I went to high school there. [Pierce] Right. And what did you do in high school that would [Indistinct] ? [Guest] Well, I I I worked as a, believe it or not, what they called a Red Coat, would help people across the street and played on a soccer team. [Pierce] You were called a Red Coat? [Shaw] Yeah, we were safety officers and back when I, when we moved from Greece and went to Henrietta, I wound up in Monroe High School and wound up in the same thing playing soccer and a for Monroe High School and [Indistinct] [Host] You lived in Henrietta but came into Monroe High? [Shaw] Right. Henrietta didn't have any high school in those days either. [Pierce] Yeah we lose sight of sight of the fact the Greece and Henrietta really farm communities. [Shaw] They were farm. Right. [Pierce] In the '40's and '50's then. [Shaw] But that was some of the greatest experiences ah,I think, that when we were kids ah I had a paper route: worked for Times Union used to have to peddle it-- my route was probably 3 miles long or longer. [Pierce] In Henrietta? [Shaw] No, all of this was down in Greece.

I know I used to a start like by Hoover Drive where it came into Ridge Road and went out to Fetzner Road and Cabot Road and went all the way down through ah, I'm trying to think whether it was Fetzner or there [Indistinct] or Latta Road kind of cut across and then came back up Mt. Read Boulevard and back up at Stone Ridge and that was my route. [Pierce] Nowadays kids might have 2 streets and [Shaw] Two streets and they think they have alot. [Pierce] You remember what newspapers cost and what you made? [Indistinct] [Guest] It was a week, it wasn't very much; I remember Christmastime we had to pay 10 cents apiece for our calendars and I understand the paper boys still buy their calendars from Gannett, and we would go out and try to sell them to get a little extra for Christmas. And, we were lucky if we got our dime back when we'd stop at the house. [Laughter] [Pierce] Customers considered that a gift. [Shaw] Right. They thought that was part of the paper service. [Pierce] Now when do you get to Brighton? [Guest] 1946 we moved to ah. [Host] Now what draws you to Brighton? Brighton.

[Shaw] Dad ah, I guess, was he worked for Kodak and he thought maybe ah my brother and I would be interested in ah, probably working on a farm some day, but it was an investment for him, and it was a good move. [Pierce] A farm in Brighton? [Shaw] Well, it bordered Brighton and a Henrietta right at the end there Brighton - Henrietta Townline Road on Winton. It was called The Old Smith Farm. And that was there in existence before they put the Barge Canal through, which then seg-separated the property and those were fun days too that we ah we had farmland out there and [Pierce] So you lived where right near where Winton and Brighton Henrietta Townline Road come together now that's by the Winton Place. [Shaw] Winton Place. which was used to be called [Indistinct]Todd Mart Plaza. [Host]Yeah. [Shaw] Yes. [Pierce] So where was your house? [Shaw] It was ah the house was in Henrietta, the Henrietta side of the line, [Pierce] Ah ha. [Shaw] So Brighton wouldn't let us come to their school even though a lot of the farm was in the town of Brighton. [Pierce] Right. [Shaw] We paid taxes to Brighton, but only on a farm land. And we had 2

large barns out there and chicken coops and we raised our own chickens and turkeys and was just experimenting around and leased the farmland out. [Pierce] Now you and a brother would, is that, you had one sibling? [Shaw] Ah Yeah, a I was raised in a foster home so that's, their name was Daley. [Pierce] Uh uh. [Shaw] And ah No that's where [Host] Was that a step brother or a foster brother? [Guest] Foster brother. foster brother. [Pierce] And the 2 of you worked on the farm? Well, the fella that came back from the Service, Randy Horst, always was a farmer at times and when he came back from the Service he leased the land from dad and a I used to work for him. And ah we did everything. [Pierce] Now this is when the late '40's. [Shaw] This would be the late '40's. [Pierce] Now all right you're in Henrietta [Shaw] Henrietta [Pierce] Sooner or later you get to Brighton somehow. [Shaw] Well being right on a Brighton Townline Road there ah Winton and Brighton Henrietta Townline Road and. Began to know some of the people that lived in the area.

When I lived in Greece your neighbor was next door here we really didn't have any close neighbors. And ah automobiles made 'ya a little more versatile and our range spread out so we got to know ah a police officer up on the West Henrietta Road. His father ran a gas station and all the kids hung around his gas station. I kind of looked at, looked at that uniform, and I knew it [Pierce] And you were one of the kids who hung around the gas station? [Shaw] Right. So [Pierce] Who was the person in the uniform that you admired. [Shaw] It was Arthur Flatt. [Pierce] Clad? [Shaw] Flatt, F L A T T. And he only stayed on the police force for a few years and left and I believe he's in Florida now and [Pierce] Now how did now how did it occur? Now how did you get on to the police force in Brighton? You live in Henrietta. [Shaw] Well ah I worked for, before I got on the police force I worked for Kodak, And I worked for Xerox when it was the Halloid Corporation.

[Pierce] And and you went away with all that Halloid stock, I'm sure. [Shaw] Oh sure --[Laughs] you could have bought it for $6, $7, and $8 a share there. I didn't even know what the stock market was in those days. [Host] See I don't want to digress, but did any of your friends buy Halloid stock? And are they...? [Guest] I don't think any of us that a young fellows that worked there [Pierce] Noone had any money. [Shaw] We had a foreman who kept saying, "Buy stock, buy stock, buy stock". I didn't even know what stock was. But if you had a hundred shares in those days you'd be a multi-millionaire today if you didn't spend it. [Pierce] Amazing. [Shaw] And then ah went to work for Gleason Works. And ah Ralph Murphy, who was a political leader for the Town of Brighton was there. And ah Ozzie Gender who lived up in West Brighton was one of the town councilmen and I wound up with his son doing some construction work putting roadways in. [Pierce] So you made a few connections. [Shaw] And ah a job came up. Or there was a job opening on a Brighton Police Department and ah so I knew Ozzie Gender, the Town Board Member real

well and I said, "What do you have to do to get it?" Or to go after it and so I wound up taking an examination and scored I guess number 1 or number 2 on the examination and wound up on the police force in 1952. [Pierce] That was a great Monroe High School [Laughs] liberal arts education. [Shaw] Right, right. [Pierce] Yeah, yeah. Monroe had quite a reputation in those days, of course. [Shaw] Well I wasn't aware of those things. [Pierce] [Laughs] You just knew alot of things. [Shaw] Just a poor farm boy. [Pierce] Now it's '52. [Shaw] 1952. [Pierce] You go on the police force; they give you a weapon and a and a uniform [Shaw] A badge, a gun, and a uniform and ah you rode with a senior officer for a short period of time till you got to know the Town and then [Pierce] You didn't go to any training school? police training? [Shaw] No formal training schools at all. [Pierce] So they once you put the uniform on you were on your own. [Shaw] Right, but then, you know, there were opportunities for, later on there were some opportunities for some educational, special classes and things of that nature

and ah, I was one of the one of those that always liked to, you know, learn more about the jobs. How you took up [Host] How how big was the Brighton police force in those days? It was 1952 1952. [Shaw] Right. I think I was a 13th member on the force 13th or 14th member of the force. [Pierce] What is it today? [Shaw] Well, Well it's was supposed to be 42, but I think there are about 38 now and, you know, [Pierce] From 13 to about 40. What what was Brighton like in 1952? What kind of a town was it? It was ah, I think, pretty well laid back. Winton Road Road was 2 lanes, ah Clinton Avenue was 2 lanes, West Henrietta Road Road, East Henrietta Road and they all had wooden bridges over the Canal, steel frame with wooden plank bridges. Ah still an awful lot of farmland. [Pierce] There still is; it's a remarkable thing about Brighton is that it still has acres and acres of farmland. [Shaw] But it makes it tough on the people that own houses that they're not utilizing

that land for tax base [Pierce] Ah ha. [Shaw] Because most of it's zoned ah for farmland and they don't pay too much taxes on the farmland. [Pierce] Ah ha. The farmers really have it made in Brighton. [Laughter] [Pierce] If that's what you're saying. [Shaw] Well we've Gassen Hauser --Gross Gassen Hauser and Meyers they own like one mile square piece of land right in the center of town from Winton Road to a Clinton Avenue and from Westfall Road to the Barge Canal. [Pierce] Ah ha. That's a square mile? [Shaw] One square mile. [Pierce] Amazing! Now, 1952, back to Brighton in 1952. It's a laid back village what, but ah Brighton has always struck me as being a very politically active town what. Was it was it in '52? [Shaw] I don't think politically active. It was quiet ah. Certainly, not not what you look at politics [Laughs] today going back in those days. [Pierce] Yeah. [Shaw] I suppose there's always a certain amount of politics ah involved, but it wasn't anything that struck me as being significant at the time. Ah

other than the fact that you did looking for a job, you had to see your ward leader and get interviewed by the town board and ah to get the jobs and ah wanted to know what your registration was as far as politics, but ah I know the 22 years I was chief ah, I never asked anybody what their religion was, their job, or their political faith. You just interviewed them and you went. If you liked them and they passed your questions you put them through the tests. [Pierce] Now back in 1952, you're a greenhorn in 1952. What do you do? What do you do in Brighton as a police officer? [Shaw] Operated scared [Laughs] [Pierce] Early '50's, it's a laid back town, I mean what do you do you patrol? sit in a car, do you walk the beat? [Guest] [Indistinct] We didn't walk beats ah. We had a car ah. [Host] There was 1 car? [Shaw] One car per shift usually and on nights, I remember there was 3 of us that worked nights; we worked 6 days on and 2 off.

off. We had a partner and For 4 of the 6 days and then the next 2 days your ah you drove the sergeant around because that's how we were down to 2 people. [Pierce] Did you work alone at times? [Shaw] And many many occasion we worked alone, your partner called up he was sick and he didn't come in and so you had the whole town. And you just hoped you didn't get a call serious [Pierce] So you were the one officer on duty for the entire town of Brighton? [Shaw] Right. [Pierce] Now what were some of things that happened to you in the early '50's? [Shaw] well I I [Pierce] While you're a a greenhorned police officer. [Shaw] I think the the things, you when you're alone and ah dealing with the public, You know you're alone. We don't have Walkie talkie radios that we carried on a belt or anything. Once you got out of the car, you were alone and you had to handle that situation whereas you're good. So I think you approach situations a little different than police officers do today when they have 2 or 3 responding to a call. You knew you were

alone and you tried to size up the situation and I think it was more verbal conversation with people in those days than there is now and not giving the tough order, "you do this, you do that" unless you really have the physical strength to back it up if you were in a bad situation there. [Pierce] Do you think we lost something when when we got all these modern communication devices? [Shaw] Well, I think it's Officer safety. It probably was 1 of the best things that happened. We went ah in my period of time on the police department we went from what I considered the Stone Age to the Electronic Age. And everything that we've done has more or less enhanced the police officer to do his job. [Pierce] Did you, you had a radio in your car then yeah. [Shaw] Radio in the car was the only thing we had; we had one frequency that covered the entire county, we had the sheriffs on it, the city on it, and all the town and village police were all all on the same one frequency. [Pierce] So that was going all the time. [Shaw] Right. [Pierce] Do you remember any of the cases in those early days?

[Shaw] Well I remember. [Pierce] That stand out? [Shaw] I can remember the Hattenya Case that was the ah, I believe he was a minister and who murdered his wife. And he was but from Batavia and the body was dumped in the Genesee River. [Pierce] in Brighton? [Shaw] And a apparently that's where the body went in the river from was from Brighton side. [Pierce] Ah. [Shaw] And ah those days remember very well. [Pierce] It would be over in West Bright [Guest] West Brighton. Jack Conway was A- Assistant District Attorney at that time; we had a close working relationship with him. Al Skinner, I can remember when I was a young lad in Greece [coughs] [Pierce] Al Skinner was the County Sheriff [Shaw] The Sheriff of the County, and I had one experience I remember when I was just a young kid going to Marshall High School, and I was hitch hiking home and ah Al Skinner a stopped and picked me up. I didn't know who he was, but that old '39 Buick he used to have, you know, and he drove me out and dropped me off and then he told me I shouldn't be hitchhiking, and so forth you know.[Laughs] [Pierce] Did he'd tell you then that he was the Sheriff? [Shaw] I found out at that time he was the Sheriff yes and

[Pierce] He was Shariff quite a while, but I think 30 years or so. [Shaw] At least. And I remember when I worked on the Pamela Moss case I was assigned to work with the Sheriff's department. [Pierce] Now the Pamela Moss case was what? [Shaw] Was the Sheriff's, was a homicide that occurred out in the town of um Penfield. Ah the young girl lived um I've gotta get [Indistinct] Sawmill Trail. And what the heck ws his name? name that murdered her? He lived in Webster, had 2 daughters of his own, but he was a landscaper. [Pierce] Uh uh. [Shaw] Ah James Moore. [Pierce] And he's still in prison. [Shaw] Right, and I hope we keep him there too. But one of the greatest thrills was Al Skinner still had that old '39 Buick parked in the garage-- we ran out of cars to use in the investigation. Here I drove that car down the road and brought back my memories of my childhood riding in that car so. [Pierce] Crazy.

Now, Gene, how did you get from patrolmen or whatever you are called to Chief of Police in the town of Brighton? What were the steps there? [Shaw] Well. [Pierce] When did you become chief of police? [Shaw] I took ah I was on 4 or 5 years. I made sergeant. And another 4 or 5 years after that I made lieutenant. And ah in 1971 took another examination and a became Chief of Police for the town of Brighton. [Pierce] In that 1970? [Shaw] April 1st. I made Chief on April Fools' Day 1971, April 1st. And I ah figured when April 2nd came I was all done. [Laughs] Someone was going to say, April Fool. [Pierce] The town is changing rapidly now from the time you first became, in the last 20, well 21- 22 years you were Chief of Police, I'm sure you saw I saw the town grow tremendousely, the police force grew tremendously. [Shaw] Dynamically. [Pierce] What were the what were the biggest changes? [Shaw] I think, well, first of all the population increase, ah the mobility of people,

shopping plazas. You know stores that were there that were torn down and a larger plazas put in. Increase in students. The Monroe Community College. And certainly the more people you get in the more diversity problems that you have. And density of population always creates different problems that you do if you're community is spread out over a vast area. [Pierce] What was the biggest problem you had as Chief of Police in the town of Brighton? [Guest] Keeping people happy. [Laughter] [Host] You [re]tired now. It's a tribute to you that you know that they weren't always on your back because I think nowadays we would agree you know Brighton's pretty politically active town, people are involved in their town government, their schools, and town supervisors and and I would think they'd always be on the back of the Chief of Police. "Why don't you do this, why don't you do that?" But you apparently kept them all at bay.

[Shaw] Well, you have to remember the Chief really runs the police department. The Town Board can give advice and can give direction if they want things changed, but more or less the day to day operations of that department was the chief's responsibility and he's held accountable for what goes on. And we selected good officers and I think there's still have a marvelous force out there with good-good, well-trained officers' training. I think Monroe Community College is one of the best things that ever happened to law enforcement. The fact is [Pierce] The criminal justice program? [Shaw] the criminal justice program and I can remember and I entered into that and I was a lieutenant at the time when I first started to go to that program at the old East High School and ah the town wasn't paying for it or anybody else. And ah I said, "well I want to go I'd like to get a college degree", and I went to that school along with a lot of other police officers that wanted to advance their careers and advance their education. And ah then the federal government came through with the LEA

Program for funding for law enforcement education or law enforcement assistance. So they wound up then paying actually for the cost of the education. And ah I think it gave us, in law enforcement, a better perspective on the Community. That was a liberal arts program really even though it was specific in law enforcement field. Ah Monroe Community College's done an excellent job as far as getting into the basics of a Community Service and teaching the liberal liberal arts program of that the specialized training you have the FBI National Academy and then we're always running special programs even through Monroe Community College for law enforcement training. [Pierce] I can see understand why Brighton police department has such a good reputation. What was the toughest case for you and while you were on the Brighton, while you headed the Brighton Police Department? [Shaw] I think the last one that I had was the Kraus Neck homicide, the

woman that lived at 33 Del Rio Drive. And a [Pierce] That case was never solved. That was a woman who was- [Shaw] Well, I solved it, but we can't can't go to court with her. [Pierce] But, a well at least, to date, that was a woman who was what bludgeoned to death [Shaw] at her house [Pierce] In her own bed? [Shaw] You know, she ah had an axe in her head, her husband worked for Eastman Kodak [Pierce] What year was that ah? [Shaw] It was 1981, [Pierce] 1981? [Shaw] February 19th 1981. [HPierceost] Is that case is still pending? [Shaw] That's still open case as far as a homicide end of it goes in the murder case. We ah, know, I used to have a file right on my office floor right next to my desk and I'd look at that every so often and just last Fall, I went or 2 years ago, I went up to Detroit and met up with the family up there again. [Pierce] We got to we've got to leave it right there. Gene Shaw, Chief of Police, Town of Brighton 22 years. Terrific reputation. Time goes fast so, we're going to wind it up here.

My guest today has been Gene Shaw, I'm Bill Pierce. See you next time on the "Rochester I Know". So long for now. [Music] [music]