WXXI Reports ; 123; Downtown Revitalization

(background whine followed by)(opening music) At just 6 o'clock, most shopkeepers are calling it quits for the night. Among them Beverly Betford, the owner of the main street wig and hat shop. One accounting firm's public relations department told us that it would be bad press to admit on camera that they had deserted downtown Rochester. This is WXXI Report, a news and issues weekly With Gary Walker, Suzanne Barr and Gary Graham.

Good evening. WXXI reports on downtown Rochester tonight. Much has changed downtown. The renovation of Main Street, the Convention Center, a skyway system, the Hyatt Hotel and other new buildings. All this costs many millions of public and private dollars and the city's blueprint for downtown, Vision 2000, calls for spending about 100 million more dollars downtown. Is this a wise investment? Is money better spent elsewhere? Is downtown still the common neighborhood for the entire area. We'll put those questions to our studio guests but First WXXI Reports took a look at downtown today. We begin with Suzanne Barr. Main Street is the centerpiece of downtown revitalization. We wondered if all the improvements have had an effect that lasts past five o'clock. So to find out we spent Friday evening on Main Street doing some shopping and looking for entertainment. For the first part of our night on the town, WXXI Reports tried to do some after

work shopping on Main Street starting when most offices close during rush hour. Our first stop, a woman's clothing boutique on Main Street at South Avenue. The doors are locked but we pursue it a bit further. Are you open? The brightly lit store is deceiving. What time do you open? What time? 5:30 you close? OK. Thank you. As we make our way up Main Street, we run into the same stumbling blocks. Locked doors, dark stores, and closed security gates. The few stores that remain open until 6:00, like Rite Aid and Record Town, are locking customers out by 10 minutes 'til, only letting the lucky few who are inside finish their shopping. At just 6 o'clock, most shopkeepers are calling it quits for the night. Among them Beverly Betford the owner of a Main Street wig and hat shop. Why do you close up at 5:30 or 6:00? Up 'til after 5 o'clock downtown is dead. The (unintelligible) is true. It's just about dead. Even if you try to bring. Business downtown after 6 o'clock, I don't think you'd have the traffic.

You know you could be able to convince people who work downtown to stay downtown to shop? No. Because when people get out, they want to go home. Across the street at the Payless Shoe Store we hear the same story. Hi. We're with WXXI Reports talking to business people on this street. Read. You know. [unintelligible] Obviously you're closed at 6' o'clock. Why does everyone close after 6? I don't know... like I guess it's because downtown closed the mall stores at 5:30, so after 5:00, everything is dead down here. It's like a ghost town. Although now Loren [?] before 6:00 the practice seemed strange to her at first. She's fromToronto where everything including the shops stay open late. Next door we do find a drugstore open for another half hour or so but Midtown Plaza, the cornerstone of the downtown shopping district is deserted. Except for a grocery store open until eight, all the shops are dark. It's

just 6:30 and the only signs of life are few stragglers from the rush home and the cleaning crew. Before we talk about downtowns nightlife, we need to remember that during the day tens of thousands of people work downtown, as downtown revitalization attracted more business to fill office space. Cary Grant continues. WXXI Reports spoke with some of the key players in the office space industry in the downtown area, in the suburbs and from other office space markets around the nation. [repeated sentence: WXXI Reports talked to some of the key players in the office space industry in the downtown area, in the suburbs and from other office space markets around the nation.] The results - every office market takes its polls by measuring the number of empty spaces. On the surface, Rochester seems to

enjoy a relatively normal office vacancy rate - 15.6% within the Inner Loop area. Compare that to cities of similar size - 16.2% percent in Louisville, Kentucky, 11.9% in Columbus, Ohio or 14.9% in Richmond, Virginia. The national average factoring in cities of all size: 18.1%. Locally office space managers say they're comfortable with those numbers. Teresa Markham is property manager for the newly renovated Powers Building, "I have seen in the past six months time frame actually an awful lot of interest in the Powers Building. Right now I have on proposal 30,000 square feet. It's going take a long time to do a couple of those deals, but I think we stand a good chance to get them." Are people paying top dollar? Do they do a little haggling [ ?] There's a wealth of we don't have come to the building. We don't have to rent space from you. We can go anywhere. They're right.

They do. It's negotiating You make concessions doing business. You do the deal. The deal often involves luring the tenant of one downtown building away to another. This is the corridor that ties together the older Lincoln Tower office building with the new Clinton Square office building and in a way, this corridor is kind of symbolic because the walk I'm taking right now is the same walk that the law firm of Nixon Hargrave took when they decided to jump ship. In fact the Nixon Hargrave story is typical of all Clinton Square tenants. Present tenants came to your building that weren't already in the downtown area. I'd say all of our tenants currently have been in the downtown area. One of our tenants was a newly formed company - Empire Financial Group in and, but the rest of them have come from other buildings in the downtown area. So you attracted all of your tenants really from other office space. That's correct.

Lincoln tower officials say losing a giant tenant like Nixon Hargraves didn't affect them. They quickly leased to new occupants, and they believe the same thing will happen when Bausch and Lomb deserts another six floors of their building. But we wonder what is the price of competition, of enticing a company to jump ship? ship. And we have some sources within this office space industry that say, "Your prices came down considerably to do exactly what you did, which is attract clients from other office space." But was that the strategy and is that going to be the strategy for other office buildings in the future. That's hard to say. I think it depends on each particular client, each particular deal that's struck. In addition to competition within downtown and from other towns, there's a third factor - the seduction of the suburbs - places like Corporate Woods in Henrietta Canal Office Park in Brighton - all eager to court tenants who may not have a commitment to the downtown area. Office Park managers refused to list tenants who have made the move from downtown, and one accounting firm's public relations department

told us that it would be bad press to admit on camera that they had deserted downtown Rochester. Earlier we showed you downtown at rush hour. But just a few hours later, by 8 o'clock traffic is down to a trickle. Few people are on Main Street. This is how most people see downtown. Their complaint there is nothing to bring people downtown or keep them here after work. But is that true? WXXI Reports decided to find out firsthand by spending last Friday night looking for entertainment and talking to the people we met on the way. We concentrated on the area most people consider the heart of downtown - Main Street from the Four Corners to the Eastman theater. Our first stop, a Main Street tavern a door from the four corners. Inside Herbie's Brass Rail just five people sit at the bar. Joe, a patron, has an idea

how to get more people downtown. "If there was downtown housing down here, there would be plenty of action down here. If there was a stadium right across the street from the War Memorial, there would be plenty of action down here." A few stools down Richard thinks he's pinpointed the problem too. "Overall I would say there is not a lot of business activity. There used to be a lot more down here. The retail's dropped off." "What killed it off? What dropped it off" "The latest thing that hurt it was the Main Street reconstruction." "It was dug up for too long?" "A lot of people moved out. And those people have not been replaced. What's hurt everything down here for years has been parking. People have to pay for parking, you get tickets. Downtown people wanted to have something done about it but the city derives too much revenue from it." It's only 8:30. Herbie's crowd of five has slipped to three. "The summer," the barmaid explained, "is slow. So hopefully we're going to really pick up." But

business doesn't pick up. A quick check a bit later finds Herbie's closed. By 8:30 we hit McGillicuty's next door. Proprietor and chef Peter Giamos nurses a drink. Why? His dining room has been empty all night and only few patrons sit at the bar. "Night time, was nothing. We have no business at all in the summertime especially is the worst. Nothing has been done to bring people downtown this summer." What would you say to the mayor? You know, as a small businessman, what do you say to him? "Help us out we need people downtown." Peter says his main problem is customer parking close to the restaurant. Where do people have to park if they ?? They come here to McGillicuty's? Why not Main street, after 6:00 o'clock? Why not, there's no traffic downtown. Our next stop, the Riverside convention center built in 1985. It's supposed to bring conventions and economic activity downtown. Liven things up a bit.

But not tonight. Next we move across the street to the Holiday Inn Genesse Plaza. We're doing a story on downtown nightlife. Is there anything going on at the Holiday Inn fun tonight? OK yes there is, there's always Barniby's going on, there's also the comedy club second floor and the best thing to do is to talk to Debbie our guest service representative supervisor. After a quick check inside Barniby's, the hotel's bar and restaurant, we head to the comedy club. What brings you down here. A friend of mine is playing here. Actually Ralph Petta. I thought we'd stop by and see him. Back in the hotel lobby a group of St. John Fisher students gather. What you think of a hotel, the area? Needs to be better rated, needs a better reputation an that would get people down here. The students are at the hotel for their homecoming dance,. a private party in one of the Holiday Inns banquet rooms. Next stop: the Eastman Theatre, the cornerstone of the downtown cultural district.

The theater is dark and locked. But earlier there was a performance. What time did that start? 8 o'clock and everybody was there. It was packed? Oh yeah yeah, really! But by 10:30 the area has cleared out. After visiting the Eastman theater we decided to hit Main Street's newest attraction, a long awaited multimillion dollar Hyatt Regency Hotel. A friendly bartender draws us to the heights watering hole, the nearly empty focus lounge. We're doing a story on downtown nightlife. What's it like here at the. The focus lounge, in the focus lounge, oh boy after five o'clock huh? Yeah After five o'clock, well everybody gets out of work and they all go home. Other than that, this is pretty good not bad. What are you folks doing here? Are you hotel guests? I'm the hotel guest. Where are you from? England. and what do you think of Rochester's Downtown life so far? I haven't been out there. I stay here. (laughter) It's safer. Why do you think it's safer? Yes, it's safer, it's safer to stay in here. The bar staff's

the friendlier. Friendly and perhaps lonely. At 11 o'clock the focus lounge is quiet. The jazz combo has wrapped up and sit to the end of the bar. After leaving the Hyatt we continued back up Main Street which is for the most part empty. Except for the occasional car and a few people waiting for a bus home. It's pouring down here. We get off work every night around this time, maybe a little earlier. Don't be nuthin Up and down but a bunch of buses. It's quarter of 12 and we're here at the Liberty Pole. There seems to be a few more people, a few more cars parking lots around here seem to be a little bit Fuller. We hear it's because of two clubs in Liberty Pole way. Even at midnight teens are lining up to get inside egg an under-age dance club. Several doors down it's heaven, a nightclub on the college crowds "A" list. The two clubs attract thousands every Friday night.

Meanwhile the other end of Main Street sleeps despite multimillion dollar renovation projects. Joining me in studio are City Councilman Gary Muldoon chair of the council's downtown revitalization Committee. Gordon daughter of the group Metro act and Greece town supervisor Roger Boyle. Thank you for all joining us today. I appreciate it. First questions of a jump ball Feel free to any of you to answer this. From what we have seen so far should we continue to concentrate our efforts and our money downtown. [guest] We've spent too much public money on downtown already, and I think particularly in particular of CDBG funds [host] community development block grant funds. [guest] I was about to explain that's a federal program the Community Development Block Grant was started in 1974 for the purpose of, providing decent housing, general living conditions and services for people of low income. But in the

past 10 years, large proportions of that program have gone to downtown development project IT projects. They're just tangentially related to the goals of the CDBG program in particular, we now have in the Hyatt a Six Million Dollar CDBG loan. A 15 million dollar section 108 CDBG loan that's all I'm guaranteed with CDBG dollars. In other words [host] the point is there is a lot of money you think should have gone for residential houses is in downtown projects and I'd be safe safe to say. [guest] Well it should have been invested in the low income neighborhoods that it was meant for. [host] OK let's let's talk to Gary Muldoon. Gary you are the chairman of the downtown revitalization committee. Is downtown overfed at the expense of the rest of the neighborhoods in the city? [guest] Well in fact downtown contributes a disproportionate share of the tax dollars to the city. Downtown accounts for 2 percent of the geographic area. A little less than 2 percent of the geographic area of the city. And in fact accounts for 12 percent of the property tax revenues that the city derives, so downtown helps

the neighborhoods. Now as to the CDBG funds in fact for the 19 1991 1992 years, the CDB allocation for downtown was 4 percent. The rest went to jobs to neighborhoods and to a variety of other sources. So 4 percent for downtown does not strike me as being an unusual amount of money. [other speaker] I can't believe that's accurate in the last GPI a grantee performance report the financial report for the CDBG program 1991-92 of thirty million dollars worth of expenses reported, thirteen point six five million was reported as an expenditure last year for the paying the section 108 loans for the Hyatt, almost 4 million for the Sibley building, 1.5 million for the other loan for the Sibley building. I can't see how 4 percent is an accurate representation of the proportion of the CDBG program that was spent. [other speaker] I want to get.

I want to get back to that but I want to bring Roger Boily here on something as Greece Town Supervisor. Part of the Vision 2000 plan calls downtown the um, well the kind of the central neighborhood for the area, for the region. Is downtown still the same old neighborhood for the region? [guest] Well one of the problems that you face getting people downtown is that a lot of the services and a lot of things that go on downtown are provided now in the suburbs. For example shopping, there's a McCurdys is downtown, there's a McCurdys in Greece. If you live in Greece you're going to go to the McCurdys in Greece as opposed to driving downtown. Same thing with restaurants, younger families tend to go to restaurants that are inexpensive and there are a large number of them as you know in Greece. So I, I think that becomes a problem, however I still believe the city of Rochester is the hub of the county of Monroe. How the money is spent is another issue, but I don't think the amount of money perhaps that is being spent downtown is going to attract any more people out of the suburbs. [other speaker] What would attract Somebody living in your town to come downtown. [guest] Well I think some of the people who are on your videotape alluded to that. I think probably a wider variety of entertainment

that it would include family type entertainment. You aren't going to get families to go downtown necessarily to the RPO or Geva, or some of the things that we saw. But more family style entertainment might be one possibility. I know there's a controversy over the stadium where it should be and so forth, but certainly athletic events bring people into the city. Those are a couple of things that will probably attract more people but certainly not just restaurants and shopping. [host] Go ahead Gary Muldoon. On October 9th the city's Brown's Race at the High Falls of Brown's Race is going to be opening up and I think that that is going to be one thing that will be attracting people to the downtown area. Now as to downtown being the hub, I think it is, and I think we have to realize that in a metropolitan area the essence of the metropolitan area is that you have a downtown. If all Monroe County was was a scattering and smattering of suburbs, we would not indeed be a true metropolitan area. [host] Let me ask let me ask you this. I mean we have the downtown revitalization. The main street

renovation project where it was narrowed made more pedestrian friendly. We now have MCC at the old Sibley's building. We have a brand new Hyatt Hotel, a Skyway system. Much money albeit much private, but many public dollars have been put into that. Has it significantly changed, has business picked up, are more people downtown? Our tapes seem to say no. [guest] Several points if I may. First off, the Vision 2000 plan is just underway. In fact the final generic environmental impact statement will not come to city council until December of this year, 1992. And then we will be proceeding on to really implement the Vision 2000. True, but some of those things have already come to fruition and was largely done privately. For example the downtown campus at MCC. Now Vision 2000 is a blueprint, but it's not written in stone. In fact Vision 2000 foresaw a campus

Around the south Plymouth Avenue area. It's now located in the Sibley's building. So things have proceeded. [host] I understand but the point again is that even if it's if it's not written in stone the dollars are still going to be pretty much what is forecast and maybe over a hundred million dollars of more investment albeit maybe 50/50 roughly Public-Private. That's still a lot of public dollars to put into one area. [guest] Well in fact, it's the projected amount of money that the city will be spending one hundred eight million dollars is going to be matched and met and matched by approximately five hundred million dollars of private investment. Now that's four dollars and fifty cents or so of federal or of private dollars for every public dollar spent. That's a pretty good bang for the buck. [host] Let's, let's move over here and say to Mr. Dutter secondly, but first Mr. Boily. That's a lot of lot of the money we're talking about are state and federal grants. Greece shares in those, many of those grants. Albeit now

that most of the population center maybe arguably in Greece in Henryetta in the suburbs. Should those dollars be spent where the people are? [guest] We get about 400 some thousand dollars in community development block grant funds. [host] Would you like more? [guest] Sure. I--I don't necessarily think we should get those at the expense of the city I think we try to spend them as wisely as possible we use them and I think as Mr. Dutter? was suggesting in neighborhoods that are targeted we do have some older neighborhoods in the town of Greece a lot of senior citizens on fixed incomes and younger families too on low incomes. We have used them to, ah, for Greece residence improvement program where people can put on gutters and roofs and things of that sort or we've used it for sidewalk in those neighborhoods. So sure we could use more. [host] But given the shrinking pot of money both state and federal I mean one more money has to come at the expense of other communities it's just the way it's going to be going. So therefore I mean the question has to come back. Should we perhaps spend less in one central area and maybe spread it around a little.

[guest] Well if the dollars are not going to increase which I probably would agree they're, not then perhaps we should look at how they should be spread out particularly in towns like Henrietta, Irondequoit and Greece that do have older neighborhoods and and I recognize a city has a major problem in some of the neighborhoods but over the years we're going to face some of the very same problems in a town the size of Greece in the Dewey/Stone area and some others where there are older houses and older small businesses. I would like to see the pot somewhat shared more. [host] Mr Dowder?(sp?) One thing that Mr. Muldoon brought up and that is that downtown is an economic generator for the city of Rochester. If the funds come in disproportionately and then help support taxpayers and all neighborhoods shouldn't downtown have this the benefit of a doubt, should not this investment be well spent in downtown. [guest] I don't think the return is. In public benefit has justified the kinds of commitments that have been made to the several downtown projects that have been made. The Hyatt project will generate jobs but the cost is is

now in all federal loans combining now there is twenty nine million dollars in the Hyatt for 200-300 jobs [host] well where else might that money be better spent? [guest] Well the city should make commitments of. Comparable ambition to the Hyatt project, the Sibley project if we project to our neediest neighborhoods. Revive, rebuilding the housing,um coming up with projects that generate jobs in those neighborhoods, uh providing needed services to those neighborhoods. If concentrations of money like those of that have been put into downtown would be put into a low income neighborhood I think it would be much easier to show improvement [host]What about the [unintelligible]. [guest] in that neighborhood. [guest] Well Mr Downer suggests that there will be jobs created by the Hyatt. In fact there have been 304 jobs after construction, 304 jobs already created of that 7/8, or 266 created by the Hyatt and by Wilmorite corporation are going to those areas of the city demanded we

created [host] but that doesn't he have a point when he says of the money that the community development block grant loans are supposed to be for low to middle income housing, uh And they're not and. They're being spent on billion dollar hotels going out of town. [guest] Money that was spent on Hyatt and on Sibley's were float loans short term 18 to 24 month construction loans. I don't believe any monies were diverted in any way from any other project that the city has. If that money was not to be used it would have sat in a federal bank, rather than coming to the city. And [host] you sit on city council. What's on the agenda? Are we going to continue with this vision 2000 plan? Are we going to continue putting money into downtown or do you see any change, do you see in abatement in that? [guest] I think we're going to continue with Vision 2000. If you take a look at my votes on city council and and that of other members of city council we are we are committed to Vision 2000. There's certain things that Vision 2000 wants to implement that we need to improve as the tape shows. We need to increase the amount of housing that we have downtown. Right now, we have uh of the people who are living downtown primarily in old Rochesterville, the St.

Paul area uh Grove Place and Manhattan Square approximately 85 percent of those live in subsidized housing. [host] But according to our tape there's nothing for them to come downtown for after five o'clock. [guest] If you can create a significantly large enough base of people who live downtown year round then you will create the market. And that's going to take more money [guest] that's going to take more money. [host] Believe it or not we're out of time. Well that's our show for tonight I want to thank my guests for being here. If you have a comment on this program or an idea for a future program you can reach us at WXXI Reports Post Office box 21 Rochester, New York 1 4 6 0 1. Or call us at 3 2 5 5 8 9 6 and we'll put your comments on the air for Gary Grant and Suzanne Barr I'm Gary Walker. Good night.