Front Street Weekly; 222

[beeps][upbeat intro music] [Host] What happens to wards of the state when they turn 18 and are forced out on the road? [Speaker 1] I worry about that a lot. [Interviewer] You worry about it a lot? [Speaker 1] Yeah [door shuts] it's coming too fast. [Different speaker] You're really looking at people who need, in a sense, an extended adolescence in order to become a fully functioning adult. The choice that society has made at this point, or at least in the state of Oregon that we've made is that we're not going to extend that adolescence. We're going to prioritize our

resources in other areas. [Host] We'll look at the children of the CSD. [guitar tone] Police officers may have the most stressful jobs around. Many psychologists say it's because we expect them to be superhuman. [Speaker 1] To handle an accident scene, maybe help pick up the bodies off the road, help put in the rubber bag and ship them away and not to have any kind of feelings about that. To be cool, detached and professional. The officers have bought the myth, and many of them have, that that's really possible. [guitar tone] [Narrator] Norma Paullus, Oregon Secretary of State is a name frequently mentioned as a candidate for governor in 1986, but is Oregon ready to elect a woman to its highest office? A profile on the woman who some have called the Cinderella politician. [Speaker 1] Now I think it's kind of balanced, it used to be that people would'nt

vote for you because you're a woman and now there are a lot of people who will vote for you just because you are a woman. [Narrator] There's a battle brewing in the Department of Defense. Former wives of military men are fighting for a share of their ex-husbands benefits. [Speaker 1] At the time of divorce, you not only divorce your husband, but you are divorced from all of your security, that you have worked toward. [guitar plays] [Host] Good evening. Welcome to Front Street Weekly. In addition to those stories we'll talk with guests about time-sharing. It's a popular way to finance a vacation but is it a good real estate investment? Thousands of young people are in state care around Oregon, in foster homes and in private and public group home care. What happens to these children after they leave state care, usually at age 18. Eileen Pincus

Walker discovers it's a question largely ignored. [Eileen] Someone once said it's a shame you cash to be wasted on the young. For many of us our 18th birthday brings with it not only excitement about newfound independence but a lot of fear too. Can I make it on my own? It's a common enough question but for some teenagers the answer holds with it real and terrifying consequences. [Speaker 1] I was scared but then I'm excited about, I can't wait but then I can wait because I don't know what's store for me, I don't know what's going to happen in my life right now. [Speaker 2] I worry about it a lot. [Interviewer] You worry about it a lot? [Speaker 2] Yeah. It's coming too fast. [Eileen] What these teenagers and others like them are worried about is losing the only security they know. They are among over 5,000 youngsters in the custody of the state's Children's Services Division each year. They live in various kinds of group and foster care homes around the state. [engine noises]

What kind of parent does the state make? Well about the best kind money can buy. But the care and the money does run out. For most of these kids at 18, and then, they're on their own. [engine noises stop] For the children of parents who can't or simply won't take care of them, the state provides support through private social agencies, group homes and foster care. The state's policy is to provide that care until a youngster is 18 or finishes high school. The care continues longer if the youngster is physically or mentally handicapped. But 18 is generally the benchmark for what the state euphemistically calls emancipation, Whether these kids have the skills to make it on their own or not. [Speaker 1] Our policy is to terminate services to youngsters turning 18 who have completed their high school education, or who have completed or are now enrolled in a full time GED program, and are not handicapped to terminate those services to those youngsters, in favor of keeping the priority on the limited and increasingly limited resources on the

younger kids. [Speaker 2] You're really looking at people who need in the sense of extended adolescence in order to become a fully functioning adult. And the choice that society has made at this point, or at least in the state of Oregon that we've made is that we're not going to extend that adolescence. We're going to prioritize our resources in other areas. [Eileen] ?Minty? ?Steel? and Jerry ?Milligan? live in a private foster care home in Portland. Both are 17, and both have been in a variety of shelter care and foster care homes since running away from home at age 12. They call each other sister, and their foster care parents, Mom and Dad. Typically, they say, the bitterness they once felt toward their own natural parents is gone, but forgiving isn't forgetting. [Child speaker 1] Well, I usually say it's my real moms fault because if she would have taken care of me better, I don't think I would be here. I know for sure I wouldn't be here. She didn't understand. She had problems of her own, so. [Child speaker 2] Well that's true with everyone, but now we have to just look towards the future. We can't rely

on why we are here and why we got here and the problems we went through. [Eileen] neither Minty nor Jerry have hope of going back home when they leave state custody and they are afraid. They fear they'll have no place to go and no one can assure them it won't happen. [Child speaker 1] If you know you can't make when you're 18 years old, I don't see why you have to leave, because if you go out there you will just be a bum on the streets. I want to be able to be ready to go out there. Yeah. [Eileen] Many of the children in state care have to learn to handle a young life already filled with severe problems. Everything from bitter family disputes to abandonment. Physical and sexual abuse, and long stretches of interrupted schooling. Sometimes these strains add up to behavior problems that will take years to work out. Albertina Career Center administrator Rob Roy sees many such cases [Rob] um, a lot of these children have to go back to their parents, if their parents are available . Unfortunately many of the parents that these children came from have

difficulties of their own and are not able to care for their children so, I think a lot of this group is floundering, in terms of trying to take care of themselves, and which can result in them getting into further difficulty, and continue to be a burden on us as a taxpayer too. [Eileen] Roy says with funding cutbacks the center's apartment living program had to be abandoned last year and that means one less program to help older teens learn the skills to make it on their own. The Children's Services divisions own independent living program supports only about 22 kids a year and even that program doesn't accept teens 18 and older. CSA the State Administrator Karen Roche says, despite new state policy to end services to 18 year olds wherever possible, there are only about 12 percent fewer older teens now being served by CSD programs. [Karen] It was just last year we made the conscious policy to really try to work very hard to terminate services for

these youngsters to free up those dollars. And I see that we really haven't terminated that many more. And so I'm not sure we're not making enough exceptions. I believe the children services role should be really focus on kids and I think people argue when the age of a child is no longer a child but I think 18 is appropriate. [Eileen] There are some ?CEDA? minimum wage jobs available but they are usually open to the most capable teens and competition is stiff. They aren't eligible for welfare programs either, except the food stamp program which offers a maximum $90 a month, and having a family to go to after state care doesn't always make the going easier either since the problems that resulted in state custody in the first place are often still present. [Speaker 1] These kids don't have a home to go back to. So it would be, you know, what would you do if somebody put you out on the street when you were 18 with with no job, no job skills, no family and little support and set you on 3rd and Burnside and the state said you are 18 now, we no longer have services to help you. [Eileen] [Inaudible] and Karen Clark are

17 and living at Clackamas house, a state supported group home. Both say they will try to live with relatives after they turn 18 this year, But even though the decision is less than a year away for both of them, their plans are uncertain. [Child speaker 2] I plan if, uh, if i don't.. when I get out of here I plan to go to my mom's house for a while, and see if that could work and then when I'm living there, see if I can maybe get a job while I'm living there. [Child speaker 2] I plan to finish high school, get a job so I can get enough money to go to college, and hopefully live with my sister and brother-in-law. Dean (Large?) knows what it is like to try to make it on his own after state care. A runaway at 13, Dean went from foster care to group home care for years. After graduating high school and a brief unsuccessful return back home, Dean headed out on his own at 18. [Dean] For me, I thought, like, you know, this is great and I get to get out and get on my own and have a good time now

and it didn't work, I couldn't keep the job and I lost the apartment. I got into some trouble with the law and I ended up back here. [Speaker 1] They generally don't have the skills to stand up for themselves even a fairly mature 18 year old the type that you would see going to college out of a normal home, are not people that are necessarily prepared to live on their own and in many ways as we're asking much of this population to do is to exist, set up a house or a home or a living situation, set up an employment situation conduct yourself as an adult. The reality is that they are not equipped with the skills to really survive as an adult. [Eileen] Dean was lucky. The former group home he lived in took him back as a staff aide offering him room and board and a small salary in exchange for his help with kids much like himself. Others are not so lucky. This is Terry (Saling?) in and out of trouble with the law since he was 11, Terry spent five years in foster care, tried a brief unsuccessful return home, and then went out on his own for good at 17.

Now he lives on Burnside selling his blood twice a week to supplement food stamps to help feed himself, seeking refuge at Bologna Joe's - a temporary shelter for the city's homeless. With no high school diploma there is little hope for a job and little hope for a better way of life. Terry is 20. [Terry] Its not easy at all. It really aint. It's harder, actually I think its harder than being in a foster home. I would rather be there, if I could again, I would rather be in a foster home than be on Burnside. [Interviewer] And you are too old now, for a foster home, right? [Terry] Yeah. [Walker] If there are what you might call 'success stories' in the state's care program,18 18 year old Lisa Kalani would be one of them. On her own now after three years in foster care, Lisa has finished her second term at Linn Benton community college with the help of a part time job and a grant.

It hasn't been easy. [Lisa] At the time, when I was thinking that I was being pushed into being on my own. I was thinking I'm not really ready, and what am I going to do if there's nobody behind me, and the first thing I thought was running. Just kind of get away from it all so I would have to face it and wouldn't have to deal with it. I couldn't do it, and I'm glad I had the people behind me that I had behind me. [Eileen]The woman behind her is her foster mother Nancy Martin who continues to provide that support long after state money used to help ran out. [Nancy] If kids could have a little bit longer to grow up that would be wonderful. They could have a little longer to finish high school because they need that time that would be wonderful. If they could have a supervised independent living situations with a friend to come check in on them and the extended family tha--that my family provides for Lisa, and that support that she feels from that extended family. That would be wonderful if every

child could have that. [Eileen] But no one knows how many of these kids make it and become self-sufficient. The state doesn't keep track of what happens to the Lisa's and the Karen's and the rest after they leave state custody. But it is clear if these young adults haven't learned what they need to learn to survive, and to get jobs, and care for themselves by 18 there's little if any more help, The state is going to provide. [Speaker 1] In a sense you're creating a generation that doesn't have the ability to support themselves later on. And so I think there's no doubt that by not paying then, we pay quite substantially later on and having to allocate resources at the other end of the spectrum. [Interviewer] What did you learn from this experience? [Speaker 2] I've learned that, uh, I've learned to face a lot of pain, and if you can face it and deal with it, you will come out a lot better. [Speaker 3] I learned I'm number one and that's what counts. So I look out for myself.

[Host] Children Services Division estimates that about 20 percent of the teens released from state custody last year were only marginally prepared to live on their own. Of that 20 percent, CFD allowed one half of one percent to stay on state care until they were better prepared. [Piano music plays] [Narrator] They were a snappy uniform, drive a fast car, carry a gun and have instant authority wherever they go. To some of us, Oregon's f4,500 law enforcement officers have a glamorous job but as Tamora Thomason reports, the pressures these heroes face take there told [Speaker 1] Ready on the right, ready on the left. All ready on the firing line. 12 rounds Twenty seconds. [Whistle blows]

[Tamora] This is the Oregon State Police Academy in Monmouth Oregon. Each year around 280 pre-screened recruits from cities and counties throughout the state spend seven weeks here learning the basics for the stressful job of law enforcement. [Speaker 1] by showing them the proper way of doing their job, and presenting them and offering them the skills, the knowledge to--to perform better. We feel all that goes towards reducing their stress. Only about one percent of the recruits fail the course and most are here for the same reason. [Speaker 2] I have a strong desire to help people in a direct and tangible way. [Speaker 3] When I got out of college last spring, I had a desire to help people, to be a service to them. [Tamora] Recruits are told that stress is an inevitable part of the job and that their joining a profession with a high rate of divorce, alcoholism and suicide. They are forewarned, but few really understand at this point how stressful the job can become,

or the price they may have to pay. President of the Portland Police Association, Stan Peters. [Stan] It's the only job I can think of that's 90 percent pure boredom and 10 percent sheer terror. [police siren] You never really know, on every traffic stop, you see somebody that just blows a red light, you have to walk to a car full of strangers, for which you are aware that a high percentage of police fatalities on approaching traffic stops for just small traffic violation. So you never really know when this business is --what's going to come at you next. [Tamora] Fear plays a big role in the stress officers feel, along with the constant hassles of dealing primarily with criminals, or average citizens during their worst moments. [Speaker 1] I think that's kind of an unrealistic view and I think that that's one of the traps that policemen fall into, is from that constant exposure they start making judgments about the general community, from the small segment of the population that they're dealing with

all the time. [Speaker 2] I have to, constantly tell myself there are good things in life, there are good people out there, everybody out there isn't a crook, everybody out there isn't going to rip you off. The failure of the criminal justice system can also make an officers job very frustrating. Because of prison overcrowding, officers continue to see offenders of nonviolent crimes back on the streets, repeatedly committing similar offenses. Their work can seem futile, and emotionally draining especially if there is a shootout involved. [Speaker 3] Television seems to show, and movies seem to show, police officers within a 30 minute period shooting half a dozen people, blowing the smoke out of the barrel of the gun and going back to work, And that just doesn't happen that way. No where. [Tamora] Around four o'clock in the morning on March 21st 1971 Sergeant Mike Slider of Camas, Washington, shot and killed a robber in self defense. Slider says he experienced a combination of shock and fear afterwards, even though he knew the shooting was justified.

[Slider] I feel that I do what was necessary to protect myself. I've been in that situation several times since then, but it hasn't been shooting situation, but I'm very, very very afraid of that. I can't excuse taking another man's life. I can justify it but it still lingers as a very, very serious emotional issue with me. [Tamora] Psychologists say Sergeant Slider's reaction is very typical of an officer who has been involved in a shooting. And even after 11 years, Slider still has difficulty coping with the memory. He says it's a reminder of how serious and dangerous the job can become. [Slider] It doesn't change, the situation doesn't change the mental picture I have of that night and the events does not change, and it doesn't diminish with time. It's very clear. The, uh, the man still lays in the roadway. [Different speaker] It becomes an obsessive life thing that keeps them up at night, and worries them so much that they

often drink, and change their behavior greatly, and also very much affects their marital relationship. [Slider] Well I've been married and divorced. I drank very heavily for a period of time. I developed an emotional barrier to serious situations, and to communication with other individuals, be it with my ex-wife or with friends. It was a coping mechanism. [Tamora] Those coping mechanisms are still common among officers on patrol today. Many lose old friends and associate exclusively with other police officers. For Slider the shooting was a traumatic event. But he says there were many other instances of emotional crisis which may be just as responsible for any problems he has had. [Slider] Having babies die in your arms, and having people die in your arms and going to accident scenes where the people are very very seriously hurt

or dead. Being involved in assault situations with suspects that are being arrested. I have scars from that. Physical scars. It all takes its toll. So when I look back on it, I think I probably should have done something else. It has worn on me, but here I am [Tamora] Slider says the support he got from other officers after the shooting 11 years ago was more on an administrative level than a personal one. No one's fault Slider says, just a sign of the times. He was even expected to work the graveyard shift again the following night. And so was deputy Pat St. John of Clark County. The night after he was involved in a shoot out, he single-handedly arrested three armed robbers at gunpoint. [St. John] I remember thinking of there's a possibility there could be another shooting.

Telling myself I had a shooting last night I don't need this. I remember my hands starting to shake a little bit and saying this is too much, you know, the shooting last night, three armed robbers a gun point tonight, where does it stop? [Tamora] The man St. John and two other officers shot four years ago did not die. Typically one of the other officers involved had a severe emotional reaction. But St. John has not been able to detect any signs of stress associated with the shooting. However he did stop having some very disturbing dreams [St. John] Before the shooting probably on a frequency of every two weeks or a couple times a month I would dream that, I've been involved in a shooting situation where my gun wouldn't work. I couldn't pull the trigger, or if the gun did function that I had repeatedly shot the person and would not affect them, they would just keep advancing on me. [Tamora] Dr. Peter Bollard is one of three psychologist working in the mental health department of the Portland Police Bureau.

He believes it should be mandatory for all officers to see a psychologist after a shooting incident [Dr. Bollard] I think there is a liability here in terms of the community and in terms of the officer himself. Once you've been through a stressful situation you may not think it will affect your performance, but it will. Kind of sneaky thing. It's there, it's affecting you and you may not know it. [Tamora] Dr. Bollard says it is often very difficult for officers to admit they're having problems, and society may be partly to blame. [Dr. Bollard] First of all the public expects them to be superhuman. To handle an accident scene, maybe help pick up the bodies off the road, help put them in the rubber bags and ship them away and not to have any kind of feelings about that. To be cool, detached and professional. The officer have bought the myth, and many of them have, that that's really possible. [Tamora] Sometimes when an officer ops not to see the results can be tragic. [Dr. Bollard] We don't hear about all of them, but some of them we hear about and they are unfortunate.

Their careers sometimes go under, or their marriages sometimes go under, or sometimes their whole lives seem to go under. [Tamora] Because some officers feel they have an image to maintain and because they feel there is a stigma attached with seeing a psychologist, the mental health program is very secretive and confidential. It has no connection with the Bureau hierarchy. [Dr. Bollard] There are no records kept, no case notes are kept, and we don't even use names. People who want to see a psychologist contact usually the chaplain's office, and given a code number of billing purposes, and that is virtually the only record that's ever kept. [Tamora] The chaplain's office will not divulge any information as to how many officers and their families actually utilize the program, But Dr. Bollard says it is successful and that that success depends on guaranteed anonymity for all officers. The bureau will foot the bill for an officer who needs help with family problems, drinking problems, or emotional problems following a traumatic incident.

There's also a group of officers who have been through all kinds of traumatic situations, who work with the program and offer peer support to any officer in need. Clark County Deputy Mike Johnson was instrumental in organizing a similar type of trauma team in Vancouver. [Mike] The way that it originated in our department is that we have quarterly meetings of all the staff in the department, and one of the common concerns of police officers during that--those meetings were that we were not doing anything to address the high incidence of alcoholism, divorce, of that type of situation that we were finding many of the officers involved in. [Tamora] This kind of peer support and psychological help for police officers is seen as a good sign by Sergeant Slider, because when he needed help 11 years ago nothing was available. [Slider] It's an extremely positive things that's happening to law enforcement . It makes-- it takes care of problems. It makes the officers deal in a human way with their

problems, makes it safer for everyone. [Tamora] Obviously not everyone is cut out to be a cop. In Portland, a psychological evaluation is conducted for each applicant to determine, among other things, how well he or she will cope with the stress of the job. But the majority of police departments in Oregon do not conduct those screenings. Dr. Ron ?Turco? along with another psychiatrist, conduct psychological evaluations in Portland. Dr. Turco believes they are essential. [Dr. Turco] I would estimate that approximately 30 percent of candidates take the psychological examination are not selected to become police officers. But that doesn't mean, for example, that a person who is not deemed acceptable for this kind of a position will not lead a normal life,. because after all we're talking about a very difficult job. [Tamora] Dr. Turco says occasionally someone who has been identified as low risk will surprisingly have some problems coping. Sergeant Slider did not have a psychological

evaluation and isn't sure if there is a foolproof way to find the right people for the job. [Slider] Written tests, world boards, psychological testing are the common ways now to select people. But there are individuals that go through that, successfully pass each phase, and cannot cope with law enforcement duties. [Tamora] But sliders coping just fine now. He sought individual psychological help on his own several years after the shooting. He says he communicates more openly about his stress and practices relaxation techniques when the going gets tough. He's involved in athletics and spends more time with people outside of law enforcement. Slider says he feels healthier now than he has in a long time and he still thinks of himself as a career officer. [Slider] Being on the street and working for five years, or maybe five months, it just depends upon where you are when something happens and how often you're there. That's--that's the test.

And if you can survive it, Would be a better police officer, you would be what we call a veteran. But we all have a story. [Narrator] Psychologist said that the excitement of police work can be very addicting. So in spite of the physical and psychological aspects of the job, few officers give it up if they can make it through the first year of trading. [upbeat music plays] [Kevin] Jim Lotz is the manager of the timeshare division for Pete Wilson real estate in Portland. Jim, many

people see timesharing as a good vacation opportunity, is also an investment in real estate. [Jim] Well Kevin, one of the things we have to understand is that time shares are not generally sold as a real estate investment opportunity. I think the way that people should view them is as a planning vehicle to assure themselves ongoing vacations at relatively fixed prices in today's market. [Kevin] So it's more of an opportunity for vacation versus a real estate opportunity. [Jim] Yes I think that would be [inaudible]. [Kevin] Our second gase- guest Paul ?Sager?, a designated broker for the John's real estate corporation. Paul are these timesharing opportunities a good investment for everyone. [Paul] I would think I agree with Jim to a certain extent you really shouldn't buy with a- with the idea of an initial investment. We have cases where you know time shares have doubled and tripled in five years. [Kevin] What type of individual should be interested or invested in this type of an investment. [Paul] Well I think it could apply to most everybody. I really do.

[Kevin] Looking at timesharing, what are the major advantages for individuals who are involved in this type of leisure time activity? What do you see as the major advantages? [Jim] I think the- I think the most advantageous point in time share opportunity is that as opposed to being dealt the blow of increased room rates year after year after year for your vacations, they were able to freeze those costs today and virtually visit the world, if the timeshare is affiliated with a national exchange or international exchange. [Kevin] Could you tell us more about that. What does that mean? [Jim] Well that means that there are certain organizations that are set up across the country that allow its timeshare owners to use their time let's say in Hawaii although they own it in Oregon. And currently the largest organization in the country is a organization called Resort Condominiums International which hosts about 700 member resorts around the world right now. [Kevin] And that's in about 300- 30 countries. [Jim] About 30 countries at this point. [Kevin] And they facilitate all sorts of accommodations. [Jim] That's correct. [Kevin] Among owners. [Jim] That's correct. [Kevin] Paul, what are the different types of timeshare arrangements that are available to the consumer.

[Paul] There's sometimes shares where you buy into a corporation and the share you buy is as strong as the corporation you buy into. The ones that I prefer are deeded interests. We get a specific deed to your share and you always come back to the same condominium. [Kevin] Now, can I resell my deed or my share in these investments. [Paul] You could and you could will it on to your heirs also. [Kevin] And I've heard they're lifetime investments, is that correct? [Paul] Yes. [Kevin] And there are no additional costs. [Jim] Kevin, The- there are deeded timeshares in this country that are not lifetime deeded. They're not what we would call fee simple deeded timeshare projects. I think the ones that- that we're involved with, they are fee simple deeded projects and there are generally additional ongoing costs in time shares. Homeowner's dues or annual maintenance fees. [Kevin] And what are the annual fees? What are they going to cost the consumer? [Jim] Well I think the national average is about 120 dollars per week owned of timeshare product. [Kevin] And this is on a continuous base, every year for the remainder of the time you have the contract. [Jim] That's correct. [Kevin] All right, let's look more specifically here in Oregon. What's

happening with timesharing? It's a new concept. What developments are beginning to blossom in our state. [Paul] Well in- in my situation we- we bought 15 condominiums at the Inn at Otter Crest. I think was one of the first and then Jim's development at Rockaway. Been two of the most successful. There's so many people traded into our resorts that they're amazed there's not more timeshares in Oregon. I think sometimes we can forget that Oregon is really a tourist oriented state. [Kevin] How are we comparing with other states across the country? [Jim] We're- we're slow in development [Kevin] Is that because of zoning or because of regulations or because of a poor economy? [Jim] I think it's- I think it has a lot to do with knowledge and people that are willing to go out and put the amount of dollars that are up that are necessary to develop projects. [Kevin] We're in a depression now and people are skeptical about certain types of new activities. What with- what happens with bankruptcy or default or lack of equity in these projects? What's going to happen to the consumer? [Paul] Well I think certainly the consumer should check out the project very closely. [Kevin] Do you have guidelines that they

can follow? [Paul] They could in our case. They could contact the Real Estate Department or the attorney general or our banks. I think it's important, you know, to check the financial status of the company. [Kevin] Jim do you agree with what Paul is saying? [Jim] Oh I think absolutely. I think that- I think the- the picture that everybody should have about timeshare product is that basically it's a service industry. And even though it may be a deeded real estate opportunity the service is still paramount and if the organization that is- that has developed and is or marketing the timeshare, isn't financially sound, then obviously you're going to have difficulties down the road. [Kevin] Now from what I have read on this topic this whole timesharing revolves around a concept of future recreational opportunities. That the work week is going to cut back and we need more time to recreate. [Paul] Yes. [Kevin] And so these projects are geared around that concept. [Paul] That's right. [Kevin] And what recreational opportunities are there at these condominiums? [Jim] Well whatever- the same recreational opportunities that would be available if you owned a

cabin or a cottage down at the coast or wherever the timeshare project may be. Some of them have specific on site recreational facilities as well as of course the natural amenities that are in the area. [Kevin] And who has to pay for those types of recreational activities? [Jim] That is normally included in the homeowner's dues. [Kevin] Normally. [Jim] Normally. [Kevin] But not in all cases. [Jim] The documentation that's supplied to an owner of the timeshare indicates what the homeowner's dues is paying for. [Kevin] Gentlemen, in the time that's remaining, is there any specific guidelines you would like to give the potential consumer? Paul, perhaps we could start with you. What would you recommend. [Paul] Well I would certainly recommend that they only consider deeded interest. [Kevin] What does that mean? [Paul] It means where you get title and title insurance too. [Kevin] And that way secures their money. [Paul] It secures their money and I think that's very important. [Kevin] Do you have any other ideas or concepts you would like to share with. [Paul] I think they should look after the maintenance particularly in new projects to make sure that they're not under quota - that they are realistic figures. [Kevin] All right. How about

yourself, Jim. [Jim] I think that everything Paul says I also agree with. In conjunction I'd like to add that since it is a service industry, the most important thing is to understand who the developer is and to understand how the timeshare resort is structured financially. Whether or- whether there are underlying debts on the property. And if there are, how is that going to affect the consumer in the event that the developer could not pay those debts. [Kevin] Gentlemen thank you very much for being with us tonight. [music] [Interviewer]Republican Norma Paulus is often mentioned as a likely candidate for governor in 1986. She's popular with a majority of voters despite the fact that there are more registered Democrats than Republicans. Much of Norma Paulus' popularity stems from her

engaging forthright personality which most of us haven't really seen until now. [applause] Without further ado, we'll go on with the festivities a very special woman in this state Norma Paulus. Attorney Norma Paulus is Oregon's first woman secretary of state. A former three term legislator as well as wife and mother, some have called her story a Cinderella tale. Could this modern day glamorous female Horatio Alger fill the seat this man occupies when his second term ends in 1986? Is Oregon ready to elect a woman governor. And what is Norma Paulus thinking about future political races. For a profile of this secretary of state Front Street went to Salem to talk with friends, family, colleagues and Norma about her life and what her political future may hold. One of seven children, Norma Petersen grew up in Burns Oregon. Her family's poverty prevented her from accepting the college scholarships the nearly straight A high school student was offered.

In a magazine, article Norma was quoted as saying one reason why she likes clothes so much now is because she never had anything to wear as a girl. Glamorous and always put together, Norma sees her attractive demeanor as a plus in public office. Do you think the fact that you are such an attractive woman has in any way held you back? [Norma] I think, in being in public office your carriage, your bearing, your body language, I think that all plays a part if you can- if your natural movements and stature com- commands a respect or attention or conveys a warmth or sincerity, thats certainly to your advantage and we all watched the great television debates of Kennedy and Nixon and how important a presence is. [Interviewer]Is it a sense of how you feel about yourself? [Norma]Oh I think so.

[Interviewer]If glamour can be an effective tool in office, Norma frankly admits being a woman today has definite advantages too. But it wasn't always that way. When she first ran for the legislature from her Salem District she discovered prejudice for the first time. [Norma]Twelve years ago when I was running for the legislature, the greatest obstacle that I had personally to my election was the fact that I was a female, and that was the first time I'd ever really felt prejudice. Now I think that's kind of balanced. It used to be that- that people wouldn't vote for you because you're a woman and now there are a lot of people who'll vote for you just because you are a woman. [Interviewer]How did Norma Paulus make the transition from her roots of poverty in Burns to successful holder of statewide office? Friend and political adviser David Rhoten, himself a partner in a distinguished Salem law firm, talks of her early years. [David]I don't want to get maudlin and go back to her- her poverty life in Burns and things but I think that she was knocked around when she was a youngster and she started

up the road of- of hard knocks and she made sure that she was going to be a good mother and she made sure that she was going to be a good wife. And then strike out on her own career as well. [Interviewer]Husband Bill Paulus is also a prominent Salem attorney and a member of an old Salem family. He met Norma when both were in school in Salem. [Bill]We met when we were going to law school and actually we met in a tavern. And she was a part time student, I was a third year law student then we met down there a couple times and started to go out. And that's how we got together. [Interviewer]After marriage Norma worked to help Bill establish his practice. Then it was Bill's turn to see that Norma had her chance at a law degree and a career. [Bill]She assisted me in the practice of law and I helped her in her political aspirations and in addition to that I helped her get through law school. So you might say I got a lot invested there.

[Interviewer]Sidestepping any undergraduate work, Norma convinced Willamette Law School to let her attend classes. She graduated with honors and passed the bar exam in 1962. [Bill]Well she was a good lawyer. She was not involved in the day to day trial, as such. She was an appellate lawyer. And so firms around Salem would assign to her cases to take and argue on appeal. After all she'd been a secretary- a secretary at the Supreme Court so she knew the judges well. [Interviewer]The births of children, Elizabeth and Fritz, changed Norma's career direction for a while. She was home with her babies during their infant years but in 1970 politics called and Norma won a seat in Oregon's legislature. Her present day style of openness and candor was forged in the legislature. [Norma]When I was in the legislature myself, I always tried to go to the known opponents of whatever I was up to and to tell them exactly wha- where I was coming from. And that allowed them time to

marshal their arguments against it. The point being that then the issue could rise and fall on its own merits and not be political or not being partisan and I think the people in this state care more for candor and knowing exactly where you stand on an issue than they do your exact position on an issue. [Interviewer]Secretary of State duties for Norma include serving as state auditor. She has demanded strict accountability from state agencies. Not always are her decisions easy. [Norma]I have had a lot of conflicts and I've made a lot of, I think, personal enemies because of it. But I sleep at night and I feel good about it. I know that by a relentless attack on the system we force more accountability from the agencies and I feel good about that. Lots of times it would have been easy, either in the legislature or as secretary of state, to back

off, and I could have survived backing off and I could not- I could have ended up without making any enemies. But in this business if you- you show me a politician that doesn't have enemies or doesn't have people that, you know, are out there to lay some landmines for you. Or you show me someone that everybody likes and everybody thinks is a gentleman or everybody thinks is lady and I'll show you a politician that's not doing the job because there are always two strong sides to every issue that confronts you. And when the heat really comes on an issue from the other side, if you back off on what you're trying to pursue just so that you won't have to have that controversy, so that you won't have to have that conflict, you're never going to get anything done of significance. The secretary of state is presently chairing the Historical Properties Commission, a group which

identifies and saves historical significant state property. Norma feels a keen personal interest as one of her own interests is antiquing and junking in her leisure free time. [Norma] No you don't have a lot of leisure time but [Interviewer] what do you do in your leisure time? [Norma]I love to go to junk stores and antique stores and second hand stores. [Interviewer]Does this tie in with your historic preservation [Norma interrupts yes, uhu] and what you're tryin to do with this office? Yes very much so. I'll- I find that an escape and when I'm traveling around it's one of the few pure pleasures I have is- is to do that. [Interviewer] Many have speculated Norma Paulus will run again state wide either for the governor's office or for Mark Hatfield's Senate seat should he decide not to run. Supporters and party faithful turned out for Norma's 50th birthday party held recently in Portland. Front Street was there also. We asked Governor Atiyeh about his thoughts on a Paulus candidacy. Do you think Governor that [inaudible] that Oregon would be ready for a woman governor?

[Atiyeh] Oh sure. I don't think that's going to be an impediment at all in a race. I think they'll look at the candidates whomever they might be. So I don't think they'll be voting against Norma because she's a woman.. [Interviewer]Advertising executive Gary White, himself the creative talent behind scores of successful political campaigns, served as emcee for the party. [White] Though we've had problems I say let bhagwans be bhagwans. [laughter] [laughter, clapping] [Interviewer]And White gave Norma reminder of her Burns high school years. [White] If we could have Norma please. One and a two...[music] [Interviewer]On a serious note, the day following the birthday party White assessed the Paulus candidacy.

[White]I think she's a very candid, honest, straightforward person. That- those qualities are qualities I don't think that most people have come in contact - you have to get to know her and she's a very easy person to get to know. So I think she'd be a good media candidate. [Interviewer]Others who know Norma well agree with Gary White. Ann Lyman, civic activist, neighbor and longtime Paulus friend says: [Lyman] She'd do a superb job, I know. She'd represent the state well. [Interviewer]Do you think the state is ready to elect a woman governor? [Lyman]I think so. [Interviewer]Would she win? [Lyman]I'm certainly hoping she would. [Interviewer]David Rhoten adds: [Rhoten]I think that she would make a good governor. I think she'd make a very good governor. And I think she's equipped. To handle that job. [Interviewer]Is Oregon ready to elect a woman governor? [Rhoten]Sure. Oregon has been ready to elect a woman ever since

Norma started. [Interviewer]But the person's opinion Norma most values in considering a race is husband Bill's. Do you think Oregon is ready to elect a woman governor? [Bill]Oh yes definitely. No doubt about it. Washington can have its lady governor, Oregon certainly can. [Interviewer]Those who have watched the Paulus career say Norma and Bill work well as a political team, as well as a husband and wife. [Bill]If both people are busy and both people have a direction in life and if both people like what they do, then I think that there's a better blend of a husband and wife double professional team than it would be if otherwise. [Norma]My biggest achievement in life is to be able to be married to the same person for 25 years and still be absolutely dingy about him. [Interviewer]Paulus' children have always viewed their mother in her maternal role, not as a politician. Fritz, what's it like to have your mother be in public life?

[Fritz]She's just gone a little bit more than the normal mom and that's about it. [Interviewer]How about you Elizabeth? As a woman do you feel that having your mother be in politics has been an advantage or a disadvantage? [Elizabeth]Well, I don't think you can call it either. It's true, it didn't really make that much difference. Mostly I'd go to school and say, oh well my name's Liz Paulus and somebody would say, Oh so you're Norma's daughter. And- which a lot of people get when they have relatives that are in things. But that one of the few things I ever ran into. [Interviewer]Put a label on Norma Paulus is difficult. Yet those who know her best tried for Front Street to succinctly describe her essence. If Attorney David Rhoten were picking one word to describe Norma Paulus, what would that word be? [Rhoten]Graceful. [woman]Oh she has a tremendous integrity. [Interviewer]Integrity? [Bill]I would call her partner or pardner as they say in Harney County. [Interviewer]Partner?

[Bill] Partner. [Fritz]It would be Mom. [Interviewer]Mom? [Elizabeth] Friend. [Interviewer]Friend? [Elizabeth]Friend. [Interviewer]Norma Paulus told us she's looking forward to some free time at the end of her second term in 1984. But Paulus admitted that her biggest personal question is will she allow herself to step out of politics or will she gear up and run for the governor's race in 1986. [music] Military benefits and pensions are major incentives for joining the armed forces. A retired lieutenant colonel in the Air Force can earn up to $2000 a month in retirement pay. Until recently divorced spouses of military personnel had no claim for these benefits.

Then Congress passed legislation allowing state courts to consider the military pension as communal property in divorce settlements. However many ex military wives left without incomes of their own are still unhappy. They feel that they too work for the pension and deserve a guaranteed share of those military benefits. [Sue Liverman]I sat down one day, very angry, which probably blew the whole thing. And just by hand I wrote him a letter. I said that if he is still concerned about the military this was a- an admirable place to start. And on the back I said damn it I'm tired of having to beg. What I feel is ethically and morally mine and it could be done and should be done. And needless to say I haven't heard anything since. [Interviewer]Neither Ronald Reagan nor the United States Congress is giving Sue Liverman what she wants, a share of the military benefits she feels are hers after 20 years as an Air Force

wife. Sue Liverman is not fighting alone. There are an estimated 500,000 divorced military wives. Many were married for 20, 30, even 40 years. They're demanding those fringe benefits received by their ex-husbands including an equitable share of the hefty military pension. Fern Parker's work day doesn't stop when she says goodbye to her third grade students. Married for 30 years to a now retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel, Fern is president of Portland's Ex-POSE chapter. Ex-POSE or ex-partners of servicemen for equality, claims a national membership of over 4,000 women. It is the ex-military wife's battle cry for action against the United States government. Fern wants a pro rata share of the pension and her medical and shopping privileges returned. [Fern]The second wife gets these benefits.

[Interviewer]Oh? Who was never even in the military? [Fern]Never saw him in uniform probably, But she gets the benefits. [Interviewer]Does she get medical coverage too? [Fern]That's right. [Interviewer]So she gets it and you don't. [Fern]That's right. That's right. The second wife gets the medical benefits. [Interviewer]You don't get any medical benefits? [Fern]Nothing. Absolutely nothing. At the time of divorce you not only divorce your husband, but you are divorced from all of your security that you have worked toward. [Interviewer]Ex-POSE faces an organized opposition. The American Retirees Association ran a full page ad in a recent issue of the Air Force Times. It denounces all claims to a share of military entitlements. The major objections are one: Benefits belong solely to the soldier. If you didn't serve the armed forces you don't deserve any benefits. And two: a pension is an entitlement not property. It's reduced pay for reduced services.

[Fern]If I were going to put a label on the military group as a whole in regard to their attitude toward the former spouse, I would say yes they are behaving like spoiled little boys. [Interviewer]On February 1, 1983 the Former Spouses' Protection Act became law. It allows state courts to consider retired pay as marital property in divorce settlements. It also a grants some continuing fringe benefits to divorced spouses. Eligibility requirements are, strict based on length of military service and marriage, present marital status of ex-spouse and current job benefits. Most women will not qualify. Those divorced before February 1st are particularly angry. The bill is not retroactive. [Fern] I was just so frustrated when I got this news about the Defense Department regulations in regards to getting that payments, you know. [Hatfield]They were opposed from the very beginning and it was very obvious they were going to do everything they

could to try to even undermine what we had been able to accomplish, which was a small step but at least we got the door open. [Fern] They did everything they could to thwart the intent- the will of Congress. [Hatfield]They understood that I was expecting to come back even though... [Interviewer]Senator Mark Hatfield introduced the Former Spouses' Protection Act in Congress. [inaudible] [Hatfield] sometimes that's just the way legislation has to proceed. You don't always get what you want in the first thrust, but you have to follow up and follow up and follow up. [talking in backgroud] [Interviewer]Colonel Gustav Bacharach served on active military duty for 30 years. He now counsels retirees at Fort Vancouver and is a member of the Retired Officers Association, a group that lobbied strongly against the Former Spouses' Protection Act. [Bacharach]There's a lot of people stay in the military because of the benefits that they have. And of

course if you take away some of these so-called fringe benefits why they- it makes it a little less attractive. [Fern]They want the money for themselves, [laughs] what else. [Interviewer]Is it just for themselves? [Fern]Well, or for- if they marry again. I don't know. Just some of them - well about 70 percent of them remarry, really. Usually quite soon and so they want all of the money. They want their cake and eat it too. [laughs] [Bacharach] It's a case of looking out for the best interests of the service and the people in the service. [Interviewer]In effect the Department of Defense has just said... [Fern] You are no longer a concern of ours. You are no longer a, quote and unquote, dependent of the military. Well, we're forgotten.

We're just forgotten. We've been used and they don't need us anymore. So go away and leave us alone. We don't intend to do that. [man]Ex-POSE plans to continue the fight for national legislation ensuring a pro rata share of the military pension and retroactivity of benefits for women like Fern and Sue were divorced before February 1. And that's all the time we have for Front Street Weekly tonight. Until next week. Good night.