Inside Oregon: Special Edition; News Report on Ballot Measure 5 in Salem (Oregon)

Is. This message an inside organ or made possible by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Oregon. We have taken the the flak in the pressure for not dealing with those issues during this session. We've dealt with as you well know a number of very important issues during this session. I think the president I have now decided it's time for us to announce what our plans are and the approach to dealing with the opportunities that have been given to the Oregon legislature by ballot measure 5. We will be appointing a special committee it's going to be called the Joint Legislative Committee on Oregon's future. And it's going to be a nonpartisan committee in the fact that it will be made up of 12 legislators six from the house and six from the Senate. The sixty six the session of the Oregon legislature is about to become history. Tonight on inside Oregon we're in Salem to ask a number of legislators about what they did and did not

accomplish despite the many achievements one fact remains no attempt was made to replace the revenue lost as a result of ballot measure 5. Instead Senate president Kitzhaber and House Speaker Campbell announced yesterday that they have created a committee to develop a plan of action. We will also talk with state treasurer Tony Meeker who is very critical of the way the legislature and the governor chose to deal with ballot measure 5. Welcome. There's an old saying that warns us mortals to be careful of what we pray for because we just might get it. Last election the Republicans for the first time in two decades won control of the State House of Representatives. The joy of victory has been seriously tempered however by the reality of another election winner. The ballot measure five ballot measure five gradually reduces property taxes which are used among other things to finance schools. The state is replacing that lost

revenue which this by any amounts to six hundred thirty three million dollars by the 1997 by any of it will amount to a budget busting 2.9 billion dollars. Ultimately the state will be unable to dip into its own coffers to support schools without raising more taxes an issue this legislature has not yet been willing to tackle. And then there are all the other issues demanding attention. The list includes secondary lands field burning health care and campaign finance reform to name just a few. And what better way to find out what has and has not been accomplished this session than to start by asking the legislative leadership. I think overall the biggest biggest accomplishment that came out though is the series of environmental bills the past things that have been in this session sessions Pasto that we fought over a lot never accomplished that much of anything and there were some monumental pieces the recycling measure. Welly recycling bill is certainly probably the biggest thing yet a fuel burning bill

that that went through the process finally we're going to see I think a solution to that problem. The heap leach gold mine Bill probably makes Oregon's stand in that issue tougher than any other state in the union but will still allow some. Gold mining in certain parts of the state. I think if you look at the air bill that's yet to come in the last day or so and it will come through the process I think you'd have to give a high plusses to the whole session on environmental legislation. How about the biggest disappointment. Well I've really can't look at anything I've got a couple of my own personal bills maybe that could be a disappointment that I would have liked to have seen it taken care of. Also I was heavily involved in rural health care issues I come from a rural part of the state that's going to be revived renewed this session that's important. I think things that I've really had an interest in all session long are really coming through and I want to feel like a

really good session here. The decision on the part of the legislature and the governor not to deal with the issue of replacing revenue lost by measure 5. Was that a correct one which is oh I believe so all very much so when it really began before the session that discussion about whether or not we should be looking at replacement revenues. But we weren't sure of where we were going to be in terms of the amount of money and how much it was going to take. But holding off that decision and then looking at the money and then saying that may forecasts come in so much better than what we had anticipated at the beginning of the session. I left the money there relate to accomplish most of the human resource needs that were left out of the governor's budget that needed to be taken care of and and yet we had enough to make up the deficit. For the most part any ballot measure 5 for schools. And so here we are now I think ready yet to make a case with the Oregon taxpayer in the future when the need arises. You guess that's something's going to take place during the interim they'll be a special session.

I think we're going to have to start work on it on that problem in the interim. And I would think we may be looking at even more than one special session that's going to more than one special session. Perhaps you know it will really kind of depend on how the itself. I don't understand. Well if you're going to have revenue forecasts come in you're going to have to deal. I think in a step by step process we're not sure yet what the what the full effect of measure 5 is going to be after the next series of property tax statements come along. We may have to deal in smaller steps than one big revenue issue. And it's just I think it's yet hard to tell just how it might play out. You're telling me before we went on here that it's your guess that there probably will be something that comes out of the legislature in the in the way of term limits restricting the amount of time someone can serve in a legislature. That a good bill. And that's something that you as an accountant support and your support of the citizens of Oregon Oregon I think because I'm sure that if you really were to ask the

average citizen Oregon for the most part a high majority of the people want term limits and something I think they're almost demanding there will be term limits in Oregon. Sooner or later I think of the bill that passed on the Senate floor the other day is a pretty good compromise. Whether that will satisfy Oregonians or not I don't know it's it's I guess really up to the house at this point whether that completes the process. What's your sense of the major accomplishments of this session. Well I think a number we've certainly written the Escuela basic school support distribution formula that a major some major pieces environmental area feel burning Solid Waste Recycling some additional strides hopefully by the end of tomorrow on the health care area with small group insurance reform and some further advancements in our health care agenda. Certainly the Catskill to revamp primary and secondary education is an important accomplishment and I think putting together the budgets under the under the. Pressure cooker created by the ballot measure was also something that we should be proud of.

To what extent were these achievements made possible or hindered by the fact that the other chamber was controlled for the first time two decades by Republicans. I think that a lot of credit has to go to the speaker and the speaker's willingness to try to move the productive agenda. I think clearly a lot of people have doubts about how well the two chambers work together at this session. And I had some reservations about Larry and certainly had some about me. But I think that it was a very productive working relationship and the kinds of things we accomplished I don't think. I think you know in some ways like fuel burning for example is an issue that I think was probably helped considerably by the fact that the speaker of the house was interested in that issue and a lot of the Republican votes that traditionally a sort of block voted with with the industry recognize it was time to come to the table. So I think there were certainly some issues that were certainly helped by that that the legislature and the governor actively chose not to deal. With trying to provide replacement revenue for ballot measure 5 this session I trust you feel

comfortable with that decision. There are those perhaps most prominent among them Tony Meeker who really feels that you dropped the ball by not doing so and you as a result been fiscally responsible with your response there. Well I guess the one thing the Treasury never said is exactly how we should deal with the replacement revenue question. You know he sort of speaks generically but they you know you the issue but the fact remains that the legislature can't fix or replace a revenue question we've got to ultimately refer that to the voters and we chose to develop a deliberative process that would look at not only the level of revenue we need to replace the current shortfall with but the nature of state government the services that were going to be providing. Is it your sense that because a ballot measure 5 the legislature was under the spotlight even more so than it typically is because of the sense that. The burden was on you to demonstrate a degree of credibility a degree of willingness to deal with a crisis so that you can set the stage for coming back to the voters at some point saying yes we want more taxes.

Well I think there are certain there was that perception I think there are people in our state who are always going to question the necessity of a government. Those people of course use government services and they don't see the inherent hypocrisy in that. I think that clearly most responsible people in the state of Oregon recognize that measure 5 is going to change the way finance school and the way we provide state services. We do need replacement revenue before 1993. And I think we have to take on head to head those people who have this sort of anti a negative attitude about the role of government in the state and demonstrate that there is a role and that it is not inappropriate. And I'm confident that we can do that over the next 18 months. You have a reputation on here as a pretty cool character. And yet on the issue of video poker on the floor you lost your temper. What happened. Well actually I didn't lose my temper at all. That was that was a planned outburst. Well I think clearly that was an issue that we had as a leadership group that had begun to move on primarily to deal not just with the question of great games but to create a dedicated fund for capital construction. I was initiated. No one really wanted to speak against particular in the

face of the kind of. High rhetoric that was going on about the immorality of gambling in the state of Oregon. And I thought that somebody ought to come down and speak for them in order record which is what I did. Let me ask you about a personal issue for you which is the issue of health care and expanding the number of people who get access to Medicaid by reducing the number of services that you are able to get a bill through that. My numbers are a little bit inexact either made available 20 or 30 million dollars thirty three thirty three million dollars to increase the number of people receiving health health care. But by limiting the services you need a federal waiver it's my understanding that practically speaking you have no chance of getting that way with through Congress is that your understand you know I think that's a very incorrect characterization both of the program that our chances are if you look at the benefit package that we funded it meets or exceeds cedes virtually all current Medicaid mandates includes things like mammography and dental care and hospice care that go well beyond existing Medicaid menu.

So if you look at the benefit package it's very comparable and I remain extremely optimistic that will get it will get federal approval the use of knowledge there's still enormous resistance from people I would say there's a real power out there is resistance from some individuals. I think Congressman Waxman is waiting until he sees the benefit package and I discount some of the other critics who are not particularly important positions. They had a hit. It looks very favorable and what we're doing and I remain optimistic I have no reason to to assume that we're not going to be able to get our waiver. This is your last session. Yes it is. It's likely that there will be yet to come out of the session. I'm measure on term limits a bill in term limits that will get stripped the number of years you can serve. You feel comfortable with that I mean you're leaving Is it time for you to leave the time for someone new to come in. Is that the kind of decision that you want to be able to make on your own and not have to have a cap on the number of years. Well actually I introduced the bill long with the former Senator George McGovern Eugene limiting terms of office I think eight years in the chamber back in 1980 81. If you want to get out of committee that I don't have any problem with that concept.

John Kitzhaber president of the Senate. His last term Thanks for joining us. Welcome. Do you think the legislature is right in waiting to find a replacement revenue brought on by ballot measure 5 or should they have addressed the issue this session. I was very outspoken also Ocean along that I believe that it is the responsibility of the legislature to develop an equitable tax system and send it out to the voters and that should have happened this session. That was that term in this frustration for me and is still that. There was no courage and leadership. In this building. To put together a fair tax system. I think we were right to to wait I don't. There's a very strong sentiment I get from the people back home is that they still are focused primarily on thinking the government is too big. They're tired of paying taxes. You know

they don't have the time or the knowledge to really get into the details. It's just a gut feeling they have. They want to see the size of government reduced and the size of the tax load reduced and they just are not telling me that they want me to run out and start trying to figure out new ways to tax them. That's a hard question and I think in the long term only the people in the answer. My initial reaction was that. Our citizens want government to be more effective and more efficient and in that regard it's a wait and see attitude. The time to talk about this is now. I liken it to a dysfunctional family in denial. We just keep it quiet keep it quiet pretend like it doesn't exist. You know that the the the illness that you know whose name will never be spoken out loud in an hour and it will go away. Well that's balderdash. I think we ought to shout it from the rooftops and get to work on

some real tax reform. With me are Greg Walden the House majority leader and Peter Courtney the House Minority Leader thank you gentlemen for joining us in the last couple of weeks it seems everybody particularly my brother in the media have been calling this the do nothing session the last session a session that demonstrates the lack of credibility of the Oregon legislature. Set a fair shot. I don't think so. I think it's an easy story to write. It's an easy shot to take the final product doesn't occur until you're out of session. And I think we've made some good strides some good bipartisan efforts both within each chamber and between the two chambers on issues like recycling on field burning. Those are those are major issues that have held up other sessions or other sessions have been able to get to that I think we've come to closure on and we've taken ballot measure 5 into the best of our ability tried to come up with a program to implement it fairly and honestly so that it will go into place without too much disruption. We've come up with new school funding formulas as a result of

passage of ballot measure 5 to return money equitably back to school districts will be able to raise it anymore. Those are mammoth tasks alone for any one session to accomplish. We've tackled those and I think a lot of other issues as well. I think that that statement was taken from a they're very accurate we weren't doing anything. And now the houses start to make its move. And I think a series of programs personalities tell you what that's all about. But the fact is that we are starting to come around the last turn trying to make some moves. But I have to think that at the time those statements were really coming down hard and I think those statements had something to do with why we're starting to pick up the pace so that we can show that we've done something before we got here. Represent of course he is a Democrat in as the minority leader. From your perspective is there any value in having had the Republicans take control of the house for the first time in two decades. Well the only value is that for the first time in life they've learned how to vote for budgets and they learn that along with power comes responsibility and that they think they've exercised that. Well I F until just recently when they've been they've become born again. We had to drag him kicking and

screaming through some techniques he used into voting for a budget and some fees and some tactics which I don't particularly like to talk about or brag about but it was hard for. I mean there's no question about it. Gregg admitted on a program inside Oregon months ago that you know basically the Republican Party philosophy and this is a philosophy is less government reduce government spending and less public employees. And if you look at this session it's all said and done in terms of amount of money we're going to spend. The number of fees we're going to increase the number of new employees we're going to hire the CDC VQ budget all of which are going to be supported you have to say that he the Republican Party has dramatically changed where they come to realize it's simple it's easy to talk about less government less taxes. But when you're in the driver's seat sometimes it needs the heart of the pain and soul of Oregon you have to worry about it I think that. We had gotten together though I don't want to be just you know smash mouth and people around him. I think I feel we have good about the way we're cooperate in working real hard at urban Walden How did how did that change in leadership affect the session and I think it's been positive I think it's always positive when you get a check and a balance between the two chambers something or you know hasn't had 20 years

and something we've needed quite frankly to provide that kind of balance. You can't have it both ways as as my colleague sort of tries to get you can't beat up Republicans for approving budgets that show increased in growth in spending and all and then turn around and beat them up because they didn't support budgets and increase enough to do the kind of new programs and things that some of them were after. What we try to do is put the brakes on it we tried to make programs come up to the table in agencies and say and justify what they were doing to make sure we're getting our money's worth in the government the taxpayers remain warm. That's I don't think that's a bad analysis to go through a mad work session to go through to say is it worth it are we getting our money's worth out of these programs. If so let's continue and if not how can we make it more efficient. To that extent the speaker appoint of the Committee on agency reform an organization we went through and analyzed the motor pool we went through and looked at. I'm probably trying a lot of them really stirred things up a little bit more and represent everything and we've got agreement in the house to get a lot of those passed a dead end over in the Senate.

I would appreciate this one more one more question I get a sense from a prison of Courtney that it wasn't so much trying to bring agencies to belly up to the bar in income clean and try to make themselves more efficient as well as much as it was in his mind. At least he seems to be characterizing Republicans as coming late to the game and realizing that no in fact you have to get budgets out and we do have to finance state government in just coming to that realization a little bit later because they've been out to see Mark I disagree and that's been the drumbeat in the media and I don't think it's accurate I mean the media's right and when I'm not a legislator's I make that comment. If you look at our fast track agenda and what we said from the beginning of this session we talked about coming up with the fast track issue of trying to resolve field burning of trying to deal with recycling a lot of these issues were on our early agenda and we put that out there for scrutiny and we got beat up because we can get them done early and then. Well it took longer than we thought but we pursued it. So I don't think there's been this end of the turn last down the backstretch sort of sprint. This is when all the work does come together but we've had those as goals from very early on in the session.

Well it's interesting since the House committee young 66 which is the modern Middle East like until they were gutting it kicking it destroying it until one of our members raced out of committee got up went up got the speaker made him come down drag out all the Republican committee they can go back and change all their votes because they were in that on the way of destroying the best recycling bills the state seen oil while it's those kinds of tactics which we don't really need to get in here into here because we still got a lot of work to get done I don't want to cause a lot of blood that we were forced to use to try to make them realize that you know we start doing some around here we're going to be the do nothing nothing. And at this stage of the game we've got a lot of needs out there to take care of but as I say I'm pleased now that we're working together at least in the moment and that has taken some pretty hard hits to get this to get us there. The decision by the legislature and by the governor not to seek replacement revenue this session this time around was that the right choice in retrospect you know got a hundred fifty days behind you to look at. It was the advent of how much of a right choice. Right now the whole problem is.

We were so inconsistent. On everything we're saying. And that's the problem here. How so. Well because if we had the first thing it should've been done going into the sessions it should have been a meeting of the minds of all the players and come up with some kind of plan that never was convened. And as a result you have players key players going off all of the directions and the impression the public has that will confuse you know what we're doing the need for making statements about pain and all this. And now with all the spending and the increased money it's come in because the economy booze and everything that we don't have much credibility. So we've got to deal with that whole crisis of credibility before we can get to the point the public will even listen to us as to how we're going to solve five so. It is a very down about the way this thing has been handled and we just we just don't get our act together we just don't get our heads in the game and that's just as simple as that. Why would I would take a little different tack and that is that the speaker in the present Senate from virtually the start of the session they are the leadership of the legislature did get together did get their heads together and say that they weren't going to do replacement revenue during this session for that very fact that represented Corney just

mentioned we do. We knew then that we wouldn't know now how much revenue we'd really need a year or two or three or four years from now. And we put that on hold It was Governor Roberts who said initially we need a sales tax we an index number that backed off came and backed off the leadership did get together in the legislature between the House and the Senate the Democrats and Republicans the speaker and the president made those decisions early on and stuck with them. So I mean that's that whole I know times fly First of all the Senate president did not necessarily walk they were quite sure. Number two none of us knew what the may force cast is going to be. That's what really has blown us right out of the water the fact that it was good it just took off. It's someone to staff feel that that shuttle is still going straight up. And so we flat out got caught. And so it's not quite that clear. We have been very inconsistent you know what we don't know what we're doing on this that we have no role models none of us are sort of fight smart and status. It meant that up front we all try to play like we know what we're doing and we didn't. And by the time we got to realize you know we talk about our credibility Shaaban I still Times say that your job during the interim during the interim get smart.

Well yeah except that you still got the witness credibility deal. I mean you still the part the public still want to say well where's the plane where's the pain and suffering I think you know we got to work hard. We're going to have to come up with a proposal and I think what was Obama going to be on that but you still got this monster out there called the public doesn't trust us doesn't believe in us represent evolve. Let me talk about Speaker of the house Larry Campbell who really in many respects was the point man for this session and was it was characterized often in the press perhaps unfairly so his one of his biggest defeats was the two cent a gallon gas tax which was passed despite his overwhelming objections and not overwhelming enough. Is this a sign that that that he lost a certain degree of clout even in his own caucus. How do we read that. I don't think so and I would agree with you first of all I think if there's been a leader in this process it's really stood out and it's been Larry Campbell both. I think for the state he's one's been for good or bad will you agree or disagree has been on point and been setting the direction. He did not favor the gas tax but he said on a number of different issues if there are 31 votes on the floor will let the bill move representative Mannix came to him with a little

different proposal to raise the vehicle registration fee by $15 said he had 31 votes. The speaker allowed it to move then a minority report came out that put the gas tax on the floor there were 31 votes there for that and it passed. That's the process. But the bulk of the Republicans voted no on that bill and a lot of us catch flak both ways and quickly represent according to Speaker Campbell do better or worse than you had anticipated. I really left in a session but it's a funny thing I said yesterday. I. Think. The president. Dominated him more than I ever expected. When we started out I said that that he was the key player and I really thought that many of the things that we're now voting for we were going to shot at and we are that's Kitzhaber stand by we don't count this don't count Camelot in the gas tax the session's not over. OK all this and there's treachery everywhere so when I threw this thing yet Campbell made a lot of what it was like. Gentleman thanks very much.

What was the highlight in the low point of the session for you. The high point. Of the session for me is the passage of Senate bill 66 which is the recycling bill. I worked very hard on that bill and and. We put together what I believe to be the most comprehensive solid waste management bill ever in the history of the state and in the history of the United States. And so I'm really pleased that I was able to be a part of that bill. That was the high point. The low point the low point is. Not funding human services to the level that I think they should be funded. In general the low point probably was that just the frustration in not having people address the merits of issues for if somebody is critically on the merits I can deal with that but if somebody. Doesn't disagree on the merits we just for the reason doesn't want to do something that's that's tough to get used to.

High points are some of the the victories of having coalitions come together and in the surprise of people with what you're able to pull off you know doing things that people said couldn't be done those were those were the sweet moments for me. I came down here to do a job and to be productive for the for the constituents of my district and and when so when I am productive that's a real high point a low point. Those are difficult to pick out to what why is one lower than another I suppose but you know there's there's a lot of hostage taking. We call it time where I'm not going to let your bill go because you're threatening to do something to my bill. And that's very frustrating. I guess my concern is that I've been so busy giving something up or thumbs down and other people bill that I really haven't had a chance to you know speak to my own agenda. I guess most freshmen are faced with

that. If as the saying goes man proposes and God disposes. Politics has its own line of authority. Legislators proposed budgets in the Ways and Means Committee disposes of the funds after weighing all the competing interests. With us are the co-chairs of that committee Senator Bill Bradbury and Representative Tony Van Vliet. Gentlemen thanks for for joining me. Like much of what we heard this session was about a lack of money due to ballot measure 5 but because of a healthy economy the budget that you two men are dealing with amounts to five and a half billion give or take a few dollars for the next biennium which if you even subtract the six hundred twenty five million that you've got to send back to schools to replace the revenue lost because of measure 5 amounts to a budget that is 8 percent larger than the budget the state is currently operating under. Isn't that an acceptable increase. You have to you have to figure also there's another one point two billion in there school support

that really has it. We consider a Transfer Fund and so that was there. This is I mean I know that there is a budget. It contains a budget a budget is also included in the in the overall expenditure. But you also add some transfer payments that are made if you count all the money that really is transferred down the communities to contracts and even filtering through state agencies you would find that the overall increase is really relatively small when you consider what the agency heads absorbed from the last budgetary period in the ways of the of inflation phase eons federal mandates and such and we really been dealing with an awful lot of those in the budgetary process. And you know I think one of the ways we measure budgets is what we call current service budget. What does it take to do what we're doing now for the next two years. And it's very clear that this budget is is you know it's reasonably close to a current service budget but in all cases is below. A current service

budget we have made reductions in service. Well let's try to stir the joining up there is more money available even after you give more back to the local that are clearly saying because of what inflation because of you because of inflation because of pay increases phase ins of programs because of federal mandates which are very substantial particularly in the human resource area. In order to continue to provide the level of service we're providing it obviously costs more money. You gentlemen presently have the job of determining who gets in who does and which agencies got hurt the worst. Well I would say probably the agencies where the spot of the smaller ones got hit harder because proportionately when their budgets are cut it hurts them. Which agencies are we talking. Well I think we found that forestry. Q Well CDC. Bureau of Labor all of those smaller agencies I think get hit proportionately harder then the larger agencies where you have more flexibility. But even then we had tremendous

problems in the human resource areas. And even though the increases look like they're substantial when you had the increase caseload was that they were dealing with they really are. There were people in the higher ed community who felt they took a harder hit than other agencies is that well I think that it was very clear from from the beginning of the session that both some of the biggest chunks of the general fund go to human resources and education. And people say well we want to reduce waste in government but we don't want to cut human resources in education. Well that's not that doesn't fit together. You can't do that. And it's very clear that the Higher Education budget was really cut and we did manage to restore some of it but I think we all have to recognize that. The chancellor felt very strongly that once he had announced cuts in programs it was not wise to just restore those programs and bring me up to date because I understand the budget was passed out this morning. The higher ed budget does call for an increase in tuition has.

Yes it was that was already planned before it even came to the US just like your quest to surcharge which is a slightly different I mean it is in essence a fee increase and yes I was absent as I want you to speak to that absolute sales tax or a meter replacement revenue didn't come out of the session but in a variety of ways taxes were raised through fee increase. Oh yes clearly yes you know what is this we're going to be seeing more of and is it appropriate. Well. I would say we try to hold that down to a small amount as possible because it was a lot of philosophical. Discussion over the raising of fees but what happened here probably was no different than what happened in California after a ballot measure 13 and that is you have a couple of places to turn to either turn a taxation or the fee increases. We called the Student surcharge is really a fee increase to the students and if you hadn't had that the higher education budget would have been disastrous you're suggesting this was a tool of last resource and it's yes there are some people who would argue center Bradbery like economists that in fact it's appropriate to have the people who receive the services pay more for for those services.

Yeah I think that there is clearly some appropriateness in that but what you when you look at which agencies charge fees it's all the natural resource agencies have fees and efficiency while it has fees and and that water resources has these in and. Department of Forestry has a harvest tax and all these fees and at a certain point when there's been a traditional kind of balancing between the various industries that benefit from Services the Department of Agriculture and the general fund because it really really is a relationship between the overall health of the state and the individual in the specific industries that are benefiting so you really can't just say well they should pay for all this because the general fund needs to be helping and providing some support a decision not to the decision to postpone any movement on dealing with major five in terms of a major replacement Renna like a sales tax. In retrospect was that an appropriate decision by the legislature and the governor. I think it is very clearly because we're clearly not just ignoring it.

We're the the leaders announced today very. Major Task Force will be working in the interim working with the governor to come up with the future of Oregon. I mean I think we all have to recognize that our future really is at stake in terms of as measure five phases in the next session we're not looking at six hundred thirty three million dollars we're looking at one point eight billion dollars. And even if the economy if we're lucky enough to have the economy improve. It's not going to improve that much. It's just very clear that we're going to transfer a lot more money next session back to the school property taxpayers. But the decision not to deal with it this time around I think. Well I don't think we decided not to deal with it this time around I think we've decided that we need to balance the budgets and we need to not have our immediate need jerk reaction to the passage about a measure five more taxes. We need to get it in shape and then we need to work with the the the committee that's been appointed and with the governor to really

begin a conversation with people about what needs to be done. I think there wasn't any other than a few outstanding things such as the cats education bill. There wasn't a lot of new ideas generated basically we were trying to do is craft a budget that would get us through this with the minimal damage done to the services that the people of Oregon really expected to receive and I've had other people in here members of your own party who've argued that there had been radical environmental bills that have been you know not radical as a pejorative but I mean very progressive visionary environmental bills in fact it was a very productive state well it was it was in in the end getting a lot of those out but budgetary wise the the changing of dollars around we didn't have the dollars to put into a lot of those we had to do subsist some changing around throwing out some old things are obsolete programs in order to put some other ones in place that were going to do these radical changes. What was your biggest disappointment this session. Well I think my biggest disappointment this session has been that we had a

tough time really crafting some of those budgets in agencies that were really suffering some severe some severe cuts that the walang range aspect of the state of Oregon. Was being lost a little bit in some of these budgetary changes that were being made I think. I do think that higher education was one of the key supper's in that. I do think in the human resource areas we've lost some ground and when the list of all the things that were not made in this continuing budget this continuing service budget and we're going to produce a list of those and I think you will find that there was some things that basically were lost Senator Bradbury. It appears as if there will be no substantive campaign finance reform to come out of this session. Are incumbents simply unable to reduce the influence of money in politics and to level the playing field for challengers. Well you know I'm. I'm pretty frustrated by what's happened last session. The Senate passed. A bill sponsored by Republican Senator Jim Bunning that

really did a very what I think a very good job of really getting at campaign finance reform. We passed that bill in similar form again this session and it didn't get out of the other chamber didn't get out of the chamber in both cases and we even passed it this time so that it only applied to the Senate we said well let us do it quickly let me ask you the question does that mean yes you can expect the legislature to to deal with this issue and to get it to get a bill out of both chambers. Well I guess I always I'm such an optimist I would always hope that we could do it but I think it's becoming less likely. Was this session much ado about nothing. We asked legislators to point out their major successes and failures. The greatest success is that we survived the failure is that we may not have a lot to say for ourselves. When we finished but the session isn't over yet and some good

legislation is passed. You're speaking as the chair of the House Judiciary Committee I've been very proud of what the House committee has done in the area of child abuse sex abuse drug abuse and really trying to combat some serious criminal elements in this state. I must say that whereas I'm very proud of that I'm very regretful of the fact that the Senate Judiciary Committee has not felt the same way about the seriousness of the crime problem the drug problem in this state. I think the greatest failure or failure that we've had the session is really not dealing with the replacement revenue issue. That has been one that if we don't solve we will the round of cuts that we've had to make this session will be even worse next session. And I think my greatest disappointment is that we have not didn't even really begin to plan for what we're going to do in the interim so I think that that is the. I think that's the greatest failure I guess on the other hand I guess I think we did a pretty good job of coping

with a ballot measure under the circumstances. The session is not a session that did dramatic great things visionary things. However there are a few good points. The anti crime anti drug bills very good child sex abuse bills very good environmental law extremely well if you look at it from recycling to solid waste. So those are some pretty good measures that addition education reform extremely positive housing bill very positive so there's a series of good things won't go down in the hallmark of legislative history for world shaking but very good. The negative side we missed on our opportunity to reform Oregon's tax system desperately needs it did was undone will have to be done that will be the big failure that overrides all the good things. Perhaps its greatest accomplishments that we were able to get through a fantastic recycling bill and one that I'm confident will be a model for the nation. So I'm very pleased about it. I'm pleased personally that a

bill that I introduced It's a report card on education was incorporated in the cats bill. If I were hopeful really hopeful I think probably another big accomplishment. We've been already dubbed a do nothing legislature. However if within the next few hours we choose to go to video poker. I think it will indeed be a historic day I'm hopeful we can kill it. It's one accomplishment I would not want to see on our record. The single most important accomplishment for my district was the passage if you bring a bill you know under optimal conditions when they burn here in the valley it all goes over the cascades and into Detroit 54 from Ben politically in the fall so that was the important event for us. The biggest disappointment has been campaign finance reform. Both sides did just exactly what I thought they would they would both pass something and then fail to agree so they can all go home and say they've done something and in fact have done nothing. So that's why I'm going to be working on an initiative petition to get campaign finance reform in front of the people. That's the most important

thing that Oracle can do for itself. The day after voters approved ballot measure five state treasurer Tony Meeker imposed a moratorium on the sale of all general obligation bonds and certificates for the 1991 93 by anyone. Besides protecting Oregon's Double-A credit rating. It was maker's way of pressuring the governor and the legislature into developing fiscal management and revenue replacement plans to counteract the budgetary effects of ballot measure 5. Mr. Meeker has not yet lifted that moratorium. Thanks for joining me today. Let me first clear up a question in my mind you do have the authority to place a moratorium on the sale of guns this isn't just hot air. According to the attorney general the answer to that question is yes you can say no more bond sales there are no more bond sales. This the session is almost over. I take it you have seen nothing yet to persuade you to lift this moratorium. No I have not. It was my sincere hope that laws would

be passed that dealt with Oregon's financial future. I'm talking about a financial future that goes beyond this current Bayani one thousand ninety three ninety five ninety five ninety seven. The demands of major five to replace property taxes are immense and nothing was done in this legislative session to address that issue. There was a press conference earlier with John Kitzhaber president of Senate Larry Campbell speaker of the House a bipartisan press conference to talk about this plan of action to take place during the interim. Were you persuaded that that is going to move move this state towards the kind of. No no I don't think that you feel comfortable with. I'm very happy that they're talking about Oregon's financial future but they didn't do anything about it. In order for something to become law it takes 16 in the Senate 31 in the House and the signature of the governor. The speaker and the president are talking about a study program involving 12

legislators. It does not make anything happen. The conventional wisdom that both Governor Roberts and I think Speaker Campbell and others felt was that now is not the time to push for a large replacement revenue. Most likely thought of as a sales tax that because the economy is doing so well there is neither the need nor is there the perceived need that the first thing the state needs to do is get its house in order demonstrate some credibility and then create an environment in which you can put a sales tax or something else in front of the public but you don't seem to buy that. Well no I agree totally with the concept of building credibility. But I'm very concerned that that hasn't happened. Credibility in the minds of the voters particularly those that were the majority that passed major five expected efficiency in government to come out of it. So what has not occurred specifically would have happened during the session that would have persuaded you to lift this moratorium. Well I sales tax would have been something that it would have.

No because a sales tax on the ballot doesn't achieve anything. A sales tax passed by the people does. I laid out a number of suggestions a number of times during the legislative assembly. My last approach is sort of a fallback position if you will was to create a savings account that went beyond this by any and a savings account in the future that created a guarantee. That there was enough money at least to make principal and interest payments on our net debt and how much would that I find out how much for that fund have to forty two million dollars which would provided principal and interest payments on what we called the net debt amount of debt that the rating agencies have established for Henri. If that was the only thing that the legislature did would that have persuaded you. I mean that's testified before the Ways and Means Committee. They have to if they

set up this reserve and passed it into law that it would indeed have been enough. There have been those in this building who have suggested that Tony Meeker's not being a team player and that in an environment in which at least in some cases there has been a spirit of participation on both sides of the aisle that what you're doing is really at odds with this attempt to build consensus. And in fact. Given the vagaries of how New York the bond people view Oregon that in fact what you may be doing is jeopardizing our credit rating rather rather than rather seeing the legislature that the folks in the bond market don't look at words to analyze a state. They look at numbers. They look at law. They look at past history. They look at future problems. So what people say in the newspapers here means nothing but what means a lot is what you do action laws being passed that create a certain chain of events to

occur with certainty. You know your banker doesn't loan you money on the vibrations and words that you give him a bank or loans you money based on documents that you present and signatures that you provide. That's where we are. This is real time. And it is what is happening in this legislative assembly is to spend basically business as usual. There is no plan that goes beyond 1993 and our problems begin in 93. So the bankers don't look at us at the words we say they look at what we do. There are a number of projects that have been approved by voters that require funding through bonds. That you have placed a moratorium on when does this start to start taking effect when are these projects supposed to get off the ground. And since there's no money to finance them they're not going to happen.

Well we've had a moratorium in place for six months already and I don't see any problem with the laying those projects for another six to eight months based on the fact that the legislature is talking about the possibility of a special session. In fact I suggested that the legislature pass a law setting a date certain for that special session to occur. You know they didn't want to deal with the problem now then pass a law that creates the circumstance where the legislature will be here dealing with this problem. Doesn't the fact that Oregon's got one of the healthiest economies right now in this country doesn't that have as much of an effect on those people in New York who said our credit rating and our economy has a definite impact on the ability to pay debt. But your banker also looks at your. Your salary. And he says OK now do you have any unforseen obligations in the future that might impact this salary. The

Constitution has created a huge financial impact on our current economy. The revenues that the state receives into the future has a definite call in the Constitution. We've not dealt with that. We have no plan to deal with it. There are only plans in the making. And so you see your banker would look at that and say Well I think in view of the risk involved here you're going to have to pay more money in the form of higher interest rates so the session's going to close does this mean that unless the emergency board sometime in the interim sits down and decides to create a 42 million dollar or so fund you called it something other than a rainy day fund but basically to guarantee that that interest will be paid on the debt of these bonds. You're going to be unwilling to renounce them or to live then we're going to that's not the only thing that can occur. You know obviously there are a lot of other things that can occur. But the most important thing is that laws be passed. That are supported by the legislature and signed by the

governor to create things to happen. And that's what it's going to take. What else other than this fund to guarantee that interest payments will be made. Well I levied a number of suggestions they're all moot now as I see since the session's close to me can't pass laws short of special sessions or short of a special session. What else is Salem or the governor going to do just to satisfy your concerns into and I don't think it's a matter of satisfying Tony Meeker. It's a matter of satisfying both the people of the state that we have the the intent and the will to address this problem. And those that would loan us money that we have the intent and the will to deal with this problem. And we've demonstrated through very significant steps that there are mechanisms occurring that will satisfy the problem. That's when we can issue debt. You know you issue debt for 30 years not for to you and you you must demonstrate at least in the foreseeable future a way to make payments on that debt. That's really the whole issue.

That the problem is now in my hands. I've asked for the legislature to deal with a fiscal management plan and they haven't. I now have the responsibility to manage our debt program and I will I will do that and execute a plan of my own that deals with our debt. Think the greatest accomplishment of the session is rewriting the school distribution formula so that it gets toward equitable funding for all students. I think the greatest failure was not providing the replacement revenue to do that formula the right way. Certainly our greatest achievement is going to be the pass each of the educational reform package represent of cads of which I co-sponsored. We've worked very closely together on this issue and I've been very very pleased with the work of the committee

and the acceptance from from the public. It's a very good piece of legislation. The greatest failure. I guess the bill that's caused me the greatest concern was certainly the school consolidation bill our past each of that. I think we are hurting a great many folks out there in the state of Oregon and I'm still very much concerned about that bill. Well it succeeded in recycling it a receipt that succeeded in accomplishing some significant things for the environment. It failed miserably because the House would not agree to campaign finance reform they killed that and we failed in lobbying regulation because the house killed that Larry Campbell seems to have been able to outdo DAVID DIX in killing reform measures because he killed everything that was there. And the House Judiciary Committee decided that the interest of tobacco companies were more important than the health of our

children and killed all the tobacco bill so there's a lot of good but there's some real bad parts too. I think probably. The most positive of the session is that we were at least able to reach some kind of consensus with the Republicans. I mean for the news for the first time and getting on the floor and doing the state's business we might even though we might not have done business a degree that we think it should have been done at least we have a semblance of what the state business and law is and so I think that's positive that a party can get itself up like they did it and that the length of time in which they did it I think probably the most negative is that we didn't deal with some of the the the real issue the secondary land issue and that we didn't deal with the Senate bill 814 which is the the bill that formulates how you know schools are going to be refinanced in this state and and we have a one year appropriation and then a second year appropriation and we've not done that in the past. So in that particular sense I consider that to be quite negative alone.

It's my greatest success I think it's dealing with major five extremely difficult I think that we've come up with the solution so that the school districts will will not be hurt. And we found the money to fund them for these first two years and I think that would be in my opinion the our greatest success. Another in the environmental area that I'm in. I'm chairman of the environment committee and we did get a bill passed for field burning and that's been sought for many stations. And I'm pleased to be able to do that. I can't think of an outstanding failure. I guess there's a lot of other things we could have done. But that I think was good station. What do you think is the solution to a ballot measure 5. The solution clearly is to look at the whole. Taxing system. And eliminate the inequities middle income people and low income people pay far more than their share.

For services. Taxes should be based on ability to pay and fairness and equity and that should be. Income taxes property taxes as well as any sales tax or business tax. Businesses in Oregon do not pay their fair share. And we have to we have to look at the whole system and design a system that's fair. Get everything on the table and get it open and call it what it is whether it's a user fee or a franchise fee or anything else. Attacks attacks as a tax comes out of my pocket and goes to for public use. That's one of their. Rights as a last flurry of reports were found in the press room. We asked members of the media to give us their view of the session in the form of a banner headline. It's different. Different from the Democrats. Are used to watching the democratic process.

It was different. It's different. Do it at last. Well I jokingly I guess I would say fast of Pepto. The surprise of the session is the success of the environmental agenda on fuel burning and recycling in particular. My headline is this governor says measure 5 won't rule the recession and wrong. I'd say it was like. Backdraft. The backdraft ballot measure 5. They kept the Chevy running. There is nothing. That says that implies the latter. Something important there is no better life. Balanced budget. If you have any comments or criticisms about tonight's program you can either call our voicemail service at 2 9 3 1 9 9 0. Or write to us at INSIDE Oregon seventy 140 Southwest macadam Ave. Portland 9 7 2 1 9. Next week on inside Oregon Our guest will be Portland State University president Judith remailing.

Please join us until then good night for sale. This message an insider made possible by Blue Cross Blue Shield of Oregon.