The Great Depression; Interview with Trude Lash. Part 3

CAMERA CREW MEMBER

OK, tilt it... [unintelligible]. Sixteen, fourteen and...

INTERVIEWER:

OK, great, so maybe you can tell me about when Marian Anderson was turned away by the DAR from Constitution Hall, what was Mrs. Roosevelt's reaction to the incident?

TRUDE LASH:

I remember well when Marian Anderson was turned away by the DAR, and finally gave a big concert, they said there was 75,000 people, at the Lincoln Memorial. Mrs. Roosevelt was very definitely involved, as a matter of fact, Walter White wrote her afterwards, I think, and said, It was all due to you, you made this possible, and when the DAR turned Marian Anderson down, Mrs. Roosevelt immediately thought she should resign, she was a very important member of the DAR. Then, I think, however, thought, should she resign or try to change the DAR from the inside out? But, both she and the President felt that this was a good example of how very terrible prejudice, racial prejudice was, and they felt they ought to zoom in on it, and she resigned, and publicly, because she knew that this would create an enormous stir, of course. Then, when Marian Anderson was given permission to sing at the Lincoln Memorial, then the world was really aflame. This was not a political person, Marian Anderson, she wasn't political at all, this was simply the woman with the best voice anywhere, wonderful voice, a great artist. How the DAR could be so stupid, I don't know, but anyhow, here was a marvelous example of how one shouldn't act, and what would happen if you behaved the way the DAR did. I think Mrs. Roosevelt rather enjoyed that one. It was a wonderful concert, this great voice, floating, it seemed, all over Washington, and Marian Anderson was so moved that for a moment, they thought she couldn't go on, because looking out at this sea of people, as far as the eye could go there were people and people, and then—it was an afternoon, a lovely afternoon—she sang. It was a great event, a very great event, and you see, people still know about it, talk about it, one- most things are forgotten, people can't remember anymore what the 30s were about. This still is alive.

INTERVIEWER:

Can you cut for a second? I'm sorry.

CAMERA CREW MEMBER

Camera's got speed. Take nine, take it away.

INTERVIEWER:

So, you do remember, though, the Joe Louis, Max Schmeling?

TRUDE LASH:

Do I remember Joe Louis? Yes, I do remember Joe Louis because we were so proud of him, and I would tease, Mrs. Roosevelt would tease, and say, saying, Isn't it marvelous that our wonderful fighter is black? And that, if the Nazis want to compete, they have to fight with a black fighter. I remember when Schmeling and Joe Louis fought, and the fight was over, you know, very quickly—isn't that true? I was in the kitchen getting drinks for the people who had assembled, and when I arrived, it was all over, so I never saw the fight. But that Joe Louis was champion, was, you know, marvelous.

INTERVIEWER:

Great, great, thank you. Cut for a second.

CAMERA CREW MEMBER

Speed. Sixteen twenty-eight.

INTERVIEWER:

—opportunity missed, was there something lost?

CAMERA CREW MEMBER

INTERVIEWER:

OK, [inaudible]

TRUDE LASH:

Yeah, OK, well, the New Deal days in the 30s were very exciting in Washington. I don't think there has been a period before or since like that one, a lot of young people, young lawyers and young professional people stream to Washington, We want to help. And where you had, of course, the President's brain trust, grinding out legislation in order to get the economy going again, where you had people like Sam Rosemund, whom he brought from Albany with him, and a number of others who were all totally devoted to the New Deal.

INTERVIEWER:

I'm sorry, [inaudible], cut.

CAMERA CREW MEMBER

Sixteen thirty.

INTERVIEWER:

OK, so then, let's just start, start up again with regard to the—

TRUDE LASH:

The early New Deal time, the 1930s in Washington, was a very excited time, because there were so many young, interested, enthusiastic people who wanted to come and help, because Roosevelt had gotten their imagination with the first steps, the first hundred days, where he did some very radical things. As more and more of the New Deal legislation was pulled down, and, you know, was declared illegal, they were enormously disappointed, and a good many of them complained that Roosevelt had given up beginning in '38, 39, that he no longer believed in the New Deal, that what was happening now was destroying what had been fought for, and what they thought had been won. Mrs. Roosevelt always felt that that wasn't so, and she would console people, and saying, The time has come now where we have to concentrate on something else, though she was the one who always said to the President and had discussions with Churchill, You, you must always beware that if, that you are carrying on a war for something, for a belief, for a system, and if in the meantime you let the system die, what are you carrying on the war for? So, that, that this battle was going on in the White House. It wasn't really a battle, it was Mrs. Roosevelt insisting we always know what we were fighting for, and the President saying, I have to now be sure I have the wherewithal to fight with, and to win. But a number of the people who had been the staunchest supporters of the New Deal were bitterly disappointed that everything was put on the back burner. They were reassured by the Four Freedoms speech, but they said, We have lost years and years. OK.

INTERVIEWER:

What obstacles did the President face in—[motorcycle passing]—should we cut for this?

CAMERA CREW MEMBER

Just ask your question, we'll be good.

INTERVIEWER:

What obstacles did the President face in getting the country going, into war? What did he have to overcome to get the country in a war-mode?

TRUDE LASH:

Well, when the President decided, and the government decided that we would have to re-arm, and we have had to get the country into a war-mode, he had to, to face, of course, the people who said, See, he wants to get us into the war, the isolationists, and the absolute reluctance of people to cooperate in the program, the economic program that he was designing. You know, the resistance, we can hardly believe it today, was so strong, that he had to go slowly until late in 1939 when indeed things were rushing up, but in the beginning, the American Army was working with broom handles because they didn't have enough guns, and the President couldn't come out and say, This is what we have to do, as much as he wanted to, because the people who were against us would say, See, that's what he wants, he wants to pull us into a foreign war. The word \"foreign war\" was spread, or \"The Yanks are Not Coming,\" there were all kinds of parades and there were all kinds of demonstrations, \"The Yanks are Not Coming,\" no foreign war for us. So,

it was a difficult,

a difficult undertaking,

and of course the President had to say,

and did say,

there will not be any foreign wars. But he interpreted this to mean, this is not a foreign war for us. This is a war for the survival of democracy, or the democracies, and we are involved,

while his opponents said, we mustn't be involved by arms or men or anything. So, it's a most fascinating time to read about it now...

INTERVIEWER:

Wait, wait, you mentioned on something, was, that I want to get into because I think it has to do with what you just said. Was he worried about Europe, or was he concerned about how this would affect our country?

TRUDE LASH:

Both.

INTERVIEWER:

I mean, was he out to save Europe, or was he, did he feel that we were threatened, and this was, as you say...

TRUDE LASH:

This,

I don't think the President believed that the Nazis would invade the U.S. But he was worried about the destruction of Great Britain. France, of course, had already fallen at that time, too, or was falling very early to the Nazis. The President, however, was mostly worried about the destruction of the Western World, and everything it stood for,

and the victory of barbarism, which, which we couldn't keep out of, it would have a tremendous impact on us, even though the Nazis wouldn't physically invade us. He was, that's what he was worried about, this seemed to him the size of the problem.

INTERVIEWER:

Great, great, thank you. Were there any specific events, like Munich, or the invasion of Poland, or, any specific events that spurred him more than others—

INTERVIEWER:

—with regard to the war?

TRUDE LASH:

I think Munich was the—

INTERVIEWER:

I'm sorry, we just ran out—

CAMERA CREW MEMBER

And stick it. Twelve.

INTERVIEWER:

So, you were actually gonna say that Munich, you thought Munich was perhaps a pivotal event.

TRUDE LASH:

Well, Munich was the point when there was no return from, where there was no return. When Munich happened, then it was clear what would happen, and while it had been clear, these, these had, we had long, long discussions about this, with me feeling it had been clear when they marched into the Rhineland, the Nazis, and nobody, nobody held them back, it had been clear then, but after, but Munich, it was actually war. And the President was convinced that we had to be in the war to save the world and save this country as it was. So, it became a different situation, a situation that didn't say maybe we have to do this, or maybe we have to do that, a situation that said, This is what we're going to do, and going to have to do, and the whole country has to now pull together. I think for many people in this country, probably Munich was the greatest shock, because Chamberlain had had some, some adherents, he was a man of peace, maybe. I mean, lots of people felt that, but this was the shock when everything went to pieces, and Hitler, laughingly, you know, stepped over everything.

INTERVIEWER:

OK. Now I'm going to ask you the last question, which is I think one that you feel very strongly about, because we never really get to talk about it. But, do you want to cut, Felipe? because, we have—

CAMERA CREW MEMBER

No.

INTERVIEWER:

OK, we're still rolling? OK. The New Deal, the legacy of the New Deal. In other words, what, what, you talk about the exciting times, tell us what it felt like to be involved at that time, and what it meant, you know, that this was a horrible time in our country's history, but, yet—

TRUDE LASH:

But, but—

INTERVIEWER:

You have to start from the top, [laughs] don't start with the but, start from the top.

TRUDE LASH:

INTERVIEWER:

OK, but what I was interested in now, aside from the programs themselves, the spirit. You know, people talk about the 'spirit of the 60's', what was the spirit of the 30s in terms of, we faced this terrible crisis, but there were people out there attempting to do something. Was it a special time, and if it's so, why was it so special, what was it about the-

TRUDE LASH:

The 1930s were a special time because actually, actually—

INTERVIEWER:

Could you start again? I'm sorry, it's my fault.

TRUDE LASH:

The 1930s were a special time because, actually, people moved from despair to hope. Remember that some very visible things were done first, the banks were closed so that there couldn't be a run on banks. Nobody had ever done that before, but there wasn't a run on banks, so people were beginning to believe. Then they, there were, work was created. Now, there was a big, national works program. There was the decision that since there weren't enough private jobs, since there were great public needs, a public work force was going to be created. I don't think the debate about that has stopped yet, but it had great impact, because there were a lot of young people unemployed, you had the Youth Corps. in that time. And people did hope again, you know, they, it, I've seen a good many films and read a good many reports about that, of people saying, Well, we didn't believe it could be possible, but look at us, here we are, we have a house again, we work again, and this country is going up. It, of course, it was very different from the way it's now [telephone rings], you see.

INTERVIEWER:

I'm sorry, cut, there—

TRUDE LASH:

—have a question?

INTERVIEWER:

Or have you ever been.

TRUDE LASH:

Or have you ever been...

CAMERA CREW MEMBER

We're ready.

INTERVIEWER:

OK, go. But it is a personal question, and I guess I want to know, how did you feel, personally, being involved in this time, being involved with Mrs. Roosevelt and all the things that she was involved in, and you having your own activities and all those things, how was it for you as a personal experience?

TRUDE LASH:

Well, working with Mrs. Roosevelt, and being involved with the White House, and staying at the White House, and visiting Mrs. Roosevelt and speaking with her daily, was incredible. There wasn't a day when I didn't think how lucky I was to have this chance, there wasn't a day. I was always aware that I was helping Mrs. Roosevelt, I was always aware that I hadn't been elected to anything, but that it was really marvelous to be involved in this, to be involved in history, in making history. It was great. It was strenuous very often, but it was very great.

INTERVIEWER:

That's wonderful, thank you. OK, [unintelligible].

CAMERA CREW MEMBER

Fourteen. And take it away.

INTERVIEWER:

OK.

TRUDE LASH:

Mrs. Roosevelt was very much interested in the school across the Hudson from Hyde Park, which was a school for delinquent boys, mostly black children at that time, a few white ones. We would go and visit the school, and she'd read to the boys, and the boys would come and have picnics at Hyde Park, where she'd read to them, she'd read Kipling to them, they understood Kipling, the Just-So Stories. Anyway, one day we went to Wiltwyck and went inside, and talked with some of the boys, and when we came out, her key had been stolen. The key to her car had been stolen. The question is, what does one do now? Obviously one of the boys had stolen it. Mrs. Roosevelt didn't have to think very hard. She turned to the director and said, I think, Mr. Cooper, you will drive us over to Hyde Park, won't you? And then, in the afternoon sometime, either Trude or I will come back and pick up the car, because I'm sure the boy who took the key just wanted it to play with, and he'll return it. He did. He did, I came back, and the key was there. So, that's where she got people to think about what they'd done, and tried to undo it. She did that in many different situations. She quickly knew how to get, she knew how to get people to stop violence, she knew how to get people to confess what they had done, though she didn't make it difficult for them, she didn't take—she never knew who the boy was. That's a nice Mrs.—

TRUDE LASH:

—Roosevelt story, yeah?

INTERVIEWER:

Thank you, wonderful, wonderful.