John F. Kennedy Library Foundation; WGBH Forum Network; President Obama: Year One

It's a great pleasure to welcome Jonathan Alter back to our stage. Jonathan is a senior editor and columnist for Newsweek and also a contributing correspondent for NBC News. He appears today as the author of his new book The Promise President Obama's year one. John has been a friend of mine for many years and I talk to him occasionally during the time that he was writing this book. We'd meet for lunch or dinner and I'd ask him how the book was coming along. His constant refrain was that he wasn't sure he was getting the kind of behind the scenes material that he needed. He worried that not enough people were talking to him. He worried that no one would read this book. I think Jonathan worries too much. Our moderator Eleanor Clift is John's colleague in Newsweek and she joins us once again to moderate the conversation as she as she did with Jonathan for the 2008 the making of a president form. She knows Washington politics as well as anyone having covered the White House and Congress for several years. Her weekly column on Newsweek dot com capital letter.

Analyzes the political news of the week. And she jostles weekly with her final panelists on the McLaughlin Report. Thank you. And I want to say how pleased I am to be here this evening. My signature line is I'm pleased to be anywhere I get to finish the sentence uninterrupted. Jonathan and I have been colleagues at Newsweek I guess for a mere 24 25 years. One hundred twenty seven. OK. And I've certainly been an admirer of his work and of the success that he has achieved. And this latest book is another example of it he's been fettered in Washington. I going to hear him at my local bookstore Politics and Prose and then there was a Washington book party so that I can almost give his introduction on my own. And this is what he wanted to accomplish with this book. Three things John.

One he wanted to find the backstory of some signature events of the first year. Second he wanted to offer some insights. About who Obama is what his personality is like when we're not watching him on TV. And lastly I think he didn't want to do too much of this because this is a work in progress in a presidency in progress and that was to assess how the president is doing. So I would like to organize our conversation one I want to hear a couple of those delicious back stories then your interpretation of Obama the man and the leader. And then lastly how what you learned this first year. Affects how you look at the Obama of today. And I'm specifically thinking of the environmental tragedy that's unfolding in the Gulf so. That Let's let's let's start with some of those good backstory. OK.

First of all thank you for coming. This is my favorite forum for this kind of thing. And I've always had a great time here. Before. And I also want to you know I want to thank David in the interest of full disclosure he was my college roommate. So you know we have to disclose in our business. So there's a I'm at work here and I also want to acknowledge that my daughter Charlotte Alter. Is in the audience tonight and she is turning 21 in less than a week. So. And than. So and Eleanor it has been my treasured colleague for some more years and I think you know us would. Care to remember and she is. From the her days in the Atlanta bureau when she was an assistant. And there was nobody else to put on this guy named Jimmy Carter and they put the office assistant on it and she did such a spectacular job that she became you know one of the

great American political reporters over over the last few decades. And also one of the absolute most delightful people I know so I could not be happier. Ok I'm so ready I'm going to start a politician ladling it on but I just had to say that. So OK one answer Tankleff. An answer to your question I really did want to give a sense. Be as much of a fly on the wall as I could. I was not allowed to sit in on meetings at the White House but I talked to many people who see the president every day or every couple of days and to get a sense of what he's like and. To and so I didn't use. Second hand stories that when if the president is quoted in the book it's either from. An interview with me. Or the courts are short. I think that. People I interviewed.

Who can remember tend to remember what the president says especially if unlike historians I'm talking to them about it a couple of weeks later it's still fresh in their minds. So that's mostly what he tried to do and I guess I would start out with the Massachusetts related story. In in January of this year about two weeks before the Massachusetts election. They got in some polls in the White House showing that. Maybe Martha Coakley wasn't going to win going away but she was still leading in in most polls. And Obama likes to manage by walking around. And so he. He likes to grab an apple off the desk in the Oval Office and start roaming the West Wing and if you're if you're in the West Wing there's a decent chance if he's in town you're going to run into him in the hall or one day. In

2009 I was in David Axelrod's office he just walks in you know and and he jokes with Pete Rouse who is his. The fourth of the big four in the least known. The big four are Valerie Jarrett Rahm Emanuel David Axelrod and Pete Rouse and Pete doesn't like. To go places he didn't even go to the inauguration he could have sat in front row watching on TV doesn't like to travel. At all in fact the president jokes that he so dislikes travel that he won't even travel down the hall to see him in the Oval Office. So he has to go down to Pete's office or X as they call his office. So one day in January he wanders into Xs office to discuss something else and X is reading the Boston Globe online. And he reads a sentence from that morning's paper. When asked why she wasn't campaigning or meeting more voters.

Coakley. Replied what stand out in the cold shaking hands in front of Fenway Park. I don't think so. And so he resists as the president the president is a shrewd politician. He knows that Fenway Park is a shrine here and people do pray at Fenway Park and that. He knows in an instant. That it's all over the elections not for two weeks but he knows it's Dani come up here and campaign all he wants for Martha Coakley. She's dead politically and indeed she was. But he knew that in an instant and he grabs Axelrod by the shirt and says. Tell me she didn't say that. Challenge me that's not true people think of him as being very calm but in this case he was a you know highly agitated state that can't be right. That can't be true says it's true. So it was that sort of scene that I was as looking for just to tell you. You know on

health care which seemed like his dreams were shattered at that point. And then that he and Nancy Pelosi were able to work their way back in the next couple of months. But. The big surprise for me was that he did this over the objections of everybody around him Joe Biden told him. You don't have to do this this year. You you know the American people will give you a pass you only promised to do it by the end of your four year term. Rahm Emanuel told me quote I begged the president not to do this. Absol Rod wanted to do energy first. Christina Romer the chairwoman of the constant economic advisors reminded him that Franklin Roosevelt waited two years after he became president before introducing his Social Security plan. And so I asked Obama why did you do it. And he said well I told Nancy Pelosi I'd go down 10 to 15 points in the polls as he did and that I might not get reelected so it's OK Mr. President why did you do it. You said because if we didn't do it now it simply wouldn't have happened.

And I found that extraordinary and in your book that there was that much pushback that cause when I leave here we are in the Kennedy Library and I look back on the campaign. To me a defining moment was when. Senator Kennedy endorsed Obama. It was like giving permission to a lot of Democrats that it was OK to move from Hillary to Obama and health care was the cause of his why he was holding meetings before a Democrat was elected on the expectation that this would be a pressing issue. And so I it's unimaginable to me that they could have considered doing otherwise that I think the political pushback would have been extraordinary if they came in and said well we're just going to move on. That wasn't the issue and just describe it as pushback would be too strong the only one. With the balls to really push back was Rahm Emanuel and

he. In August for about a week he said let's compromise introduce a stripped down. Version he actually had an 800 page secret plan that was done that summer that Rahm had put together but he had what they called the women and children first idea the type the Titanic you know save the women and children first. Later when it looked like the whole thing was going down they they didn't like to brag that that had been their name for initially but would insure about 10 million instead of 30 once it was in the band and there wasn't an initial thought you know we shouldn't do this. They are not initially there was a struggle as well over whether to put it in the budget. And Obama in a very emotional meeting with Tom Daschle in the first week of his presidency when Dashiell had been down attending to his brother who had brain cancer and he says he puts it to him he says you know are you going to do this. And Obama kind of hugs him and says. I'm doing this. And so it wasn't like there was this rear guard action all year long right. And once

Rahm realized that the president was going to do it he moved heaven and earth to try to make it happen so it wasn't like you know that he was enthusiastic but at one point when the polls are just plummeting and they made a number of tactical mistakes. And Obama will always like to say I'm feeling lucky. And so Rahm Emanuel says. Are you still feeling lucky Mr. President. And he's. Obama says. My name is Barack Hussein Obama and I'm sitting here so yeah I'm feeling lucky. And you know it's it's a major achievement and yet I think at the signing ceremony President Obama said as an aside to someone out there think we're smart for another for a month. And it was Axelrod or somebody said you know maybe two weeks I don't think it was even two we know. And that brings me to The Washington Post review of your book the title was a gifted orator who can't make his point.

Why can't you get credit for doing something that's pretty wonderful. I think that the country you know it's a great question and to me the biggest surprise of Obama's first year was that we expected that he was going to ace communications. Be this silver tongued order that he was during the campaign and that he was going to struggle in executive leadership because you don't have any management experience never run anything. And instead it turned out to be the reverse he was quite a natural executive. The people who dealt with him. This thought that his true great strength was running a meeting and he was very Chris. And an effective effective executive. And yet he he as Valerie Jarrett told me could never find the right vocabulary to describe health care and to frame that issue and I also don't think he did a very good job of framing the stimulus so the stimulus is also a major accomplishment.

But he was at that time he was more interested in speed than credit and with health care the lack of speed the fact that it dragged out and everybody focused on the sausage factory of Congress. And the sausage making stunk so bad it spoiled everybody's appetite for the meal. Right. And the stimulus. Package which is a terrible name but that they didn't want to write that you describe in the book how if you break it up into like four pieces of legislation it was the biggest this and the biggest that it was that it was and it was the biggest energy bill ever in terms of clean energy. It was the biggest infrastructure bill since the Interstate Highway Act of the 1000 50s. It's the biggest education bill since the 900 60s it was the biggest tax cut since Reagan and by some arguments the 300 billion in tax cuts was actually much more for the middle class than the Reagan provided. And yet it went through so fast. That

nobody could really digest it. They they didn't sell it well and. And. You know. These were. Historic times and it's hard sometimes to realize when you're. Going through history that it's happening at the Washington book party that you mentioned. One of the guests was Senator Harris Wofford. Who some of you may remember was a Pennsylvania senator. A lesser known fact is that he was responsible more than any other person outside of the Kennedy family for John F. Kennedy being elected in 1960. There's a lot of historical misinformation about this. If Nixon had carried Illinois where supposedly Daley stole the election. Kennedy still would have been elected. He had enough electoral votes to win so it was not Illinois. What made the difference is that a very large number of African-Americans moved from the

Republican Party the party of Lincoln Jackie Robinson had been for Nixon Daddy King it been for Nixon. They moved to the Democratic Party because Harris Wofford advised JFK to call Coretta Scott King and when Martin Luther King was in jail and over Bobby Kennedy's objections he did this. It was just a natural move by Kennedy a compassionate move and it yielded huge political benefits that they didn't anticipate they thought it would be a negative in the south and ended up winning the election for them. So flash forward to this book party last week and. Harris Wofford is in his 80s and he stumbled and he had a bad fall and he had to be taken to the hospital. And as we were waiting for the ambulance to come. To make sure that he you know stayed conscious didn't go into shock. And he had blood all over him and I said as bloody as you were. And he said no. When I was with King at Selma. I didn't I didn't get hit. And you know

I managed to avoid it so much bloodier now than I was and you talk you told this long story. About Selma and afterward I realized. You know at the time that Wofford was with King it sell more when he was with JFK in 1960. They weren't thinking this was history. It was just part of his daily life. And that's what the events of the last year and a half. They are part they will be part of. Real American. History when you look at the most the largest piece of social legislation. In 45 years since Medicare and Medicaid that was passed when you had a look at national service they added two hundred and fifty thousand young people. Through the Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act that was signed. It got no notice when FDR added two hundred fifty thousand one hundred thirty three to the Civilian Conservation Corps it was front page news everywhere. But events were moving his spigot Storch events were moving so fast last year that none of

us could digest them. So what I wanted to do in this book was to try to like look at it like a historian and say yes this will be history. Do I know for sure which parts of it will loom large with the benefit of time no. But I try to take some educated guesses on what we will think of as as major historical events. And yet this is all one together by the critics says too much government. Big government and they haven't really had an effective response and one of the things I wonder is. Was the rise of the Tea Party kind of inevitable. Or could they have done something that sort of cushioned the blow of all this government coming in to help you to make people not be threatened to see it as a positive thing. I think I think it could have you know Richard Neustadt who's the head of the Kennedy transition in 1961 died a couple of years ago he was my one of my absolute favorite professors. He said

that the president's only power real powers the power to persuade. And Obama failed to persuade but I think that what he. Was looking at was it was it was a Chicago approach. The late Mayor Daley said good government is good politics. So if he figures if he delivers for the people that eventually he will get credit and he tries to take a kind of a longer view and you know we still have 10 percent unemployment but at the time Obama took office the economy was losing in January of 2009. Seven hundred and forty thousand jobs a month if we'd stayed on that pace we would have been in another Great Depression no exaggeration by the end of 2009. Currently we're adding about 250000 jobs a month we still have a long way to go to get above water but we're moving in the right direction so I think he's confident that even though. Change is painful and there was this reaction that will prevail. He attributed it when I asked him about this and he called them the

teabaggers which got in him in a lot of trouble with conservatives he meant no sexual insult. But you know that's the way it came out. He said that it started very early when there was no cooperation from the Republicans on the stimulus the very first week of his presidency. He went over to meet with the House Republican Caucus no Democrat unprecedented move and they decided before he got there that they were going to reduce John Boehner the minority leader said told them beforehand no cooperation no votes and indeed to get zero votes. So even though Ronald Reagan's economic adviser Martin Feldstein and John McCain's economic adviser Mark Zandi they thought we needed a stimulus. No Republicans went for it. And so Obama said that the whole Tea Party thing kind of grew out of that and I think he's right he said. He thought the biggest surprise of the his presidency for him is he thought the other side would be more interested in governing. And they wouldn't just be obstructionist. I would go

further and this is this book is not a lot of punditry because I sort of took my pundit had off and you know got off as my wife said Get off your high horse and gave it a rest you know and. I tried not to but and I didn't say this in the book but what I believe is it wasn't just that they didn't want to govern. I think that the opposition was fundamentally unpatriotic fundamentally unpatriotic. That. You know. It's one thing for them to negotiate and he offered them he made a big mistake you offered him three hundred billion dollars in tax cuts at the front end and he thought well that'll be a show of good faith and then we'll negotiate over the rest of the the stimulus package. They refused to negotiate with the company when the country is flat on its back. I can understand politically why they wanted to do it because they figure they get no credit if it worked. And they'd share the blame if you failed. So in very crass political terms it made sense for them to play to

the 2010 midterms and just be the party of NO. Understandable but if you're actually looking at it like what is the responsible thing to do when the country is in crisis. It was deeply irresponsible. Do you see any change in the president from the beginning of the year to the end that he might have been more naive about what he could accomplish with the Republicans with the scales lifted from his eyes. I don't think the scales were lifted from his eyes. He always believed that whether they cooperated or not because of the way he ran his campaign and the way he had. Positioned himself remember when we first got to know this guy in 2004 he said. You know in his speech at the 2004 convention was beyond red and blue. Right. We don't live in blue states or don't live in red states we have United States of America and I did the first cover story on him. You may remember in Newsweek in late 2004 in the cover line was seeing

purple. So. He his whole idea was that he had to reach out. And even if they rejected him he had to reach out. So I don't think he was naive in reaching out. But I do think that he. Didn't have a good contingency plan for how to deal with it when they brushed his hand away. Okay the back story is that I promised the audience you have a good one around the lengthy Afghanistan deliberations and the escalation of the troops in Afghanistan and whose idea was that really escalated. Well. First of all you know Obama found himself at the beginning of the year kind of slipping into a bigger commitment in Afghanistan and he and

his people realized that. In neither the Vietnam War. Or in the Iraq war was there ever a period where they actually had a series of meetings to question the assumptions of the war. The war there was literally I mean remember I interviewed McNamara once about the beginning of the Iraq war and he said the biggest mistake there made is the same thing we made in Vietnam they never surface the issues for debate for full debate. It's hard to believe you think people in government would debate these things but they didn't either of those wars. So in the summer Obama decided as as he. Put it to me that he would slow everything down. Rather than slipping into this. And he undertook what was the most sustained examination. Of a foreign policy national security question since the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962 when JFK held 13 days of meetings and it added up to about the same amount of time about 20 hours of meetings in the in this case in THE SITUATION ROOM.

And they examined every assumption. Behind Afghanistan and. It was kind of a good cop bad cop thing with Joe Biden they sent the Pentagon back over and over again. For more information and they considered and rejected the Vietnam analogy. Which is West Point speech explicitly rejected because his point was that the economy really were not a national security threat to us. But al Qaeda is they want to kill us. And. So he saw it not as a war on terror but a war on al-Qaida. And that in order to. The question was. In order to fight that war what do you have to do Visa V the Taliban and there were a whole series. Of questions and so I try to walk the reader through. What happened in THE SITUATION ROOM. But some of that had come out last fall. There were stories in The Times in the post about this. When did not come out and what was a totally fresh revelation to me. Was that the Pentagon was trying to manipulate

the president and box him in. And when I asked him I said were you jammed by the Pentagon. His record his answer was quote. I will neither confirm nor deny that I was jammed by the Pentagon you know. So they. Did. Long story short Gen. McChrystal gave a speech in London and the question answer session he was asked could you support. It was called a counterterrorism plan the Biden plan very few troops. Predator drones small commitment and he says commanding general. In a word no. Wait a minute. Lets get this straight the commanding general is saying that if the president sides with the vice president in these deliberations he cannot support that. Now there's a word for that that word is insubordination. And. That that's not the word that the president used but he was absolutely livid. And after meeting with McChrystal and determining that it wasn't his fault and that he was a little naive and

weighed out with the press he focused on Gen.. Admiral Mullen the chairman the Joint Chiefs of Staff and he summoned him to the Oval Office with Gates in attendance and he dressed him down hard. He said I am exceedingly unhappy with your conduct. I need to know here and now that your conduct will stop. And that you will not be trying to. You know use the press to. Effect a policy bizz not yet been determined and it's doing a grave disservice to our men and women in uniform and to our country quote unquote from somebody who was in this meeting in the Oval Office and Mullen and Gates and betray us who we also blame for this. Went out and they as mom describes up afterward as chagrined and this was described to me as the most direct confrontation between the military and president in the military since Truman fired. MacArthur in one thousand fifty one. And the question was raised why didn't fire somebody and the answer was Joe

Biden wanted him to fire somebody over this. But they had just fired General McKiernan who was McChrystal predecessor six months earlier and it would have been very disruptive for them to just have heads rolling at the Pentagon he needs to maintain a good relationship with them. But what he did determine was. To as he put it move the bell curve to the left and what he meant by that was in Fast out fast. So he put a lot of pressure on them to escalate this year. There's still a lot of tension over that. And then to begin withdrawing next year most people don't believe he will. I'm convinced that he it was a presidential order and that he's even if things are not going that well on the ground that would be evidence that more troops 100000 troops didn't work and it would actually bolster his case for starting to withdraw troops next year. Well it looks like they're going to stick to the withdrawal date from Iraq of getting their troops out engaged in combat operations and and they

don't have a government there yet so that looks kind of shaky. But this is a good point. If you talk about some of the biplane with the vice president Vice President Biden for Washington journalists is the gift that keeps on giving. Got that right. And but they do have a good relationship is Biden an important player. Talk about that. Well it started out as a bad. And that a bad relationship and Biden didn't respect Obama thought he had no business running for president. He just arrived in the Senate you know and barely. Found the bathroom before he's running for president. And after Biden loses in Iowa. He's neutral. But I found out that he actually wasn't neutral and he secretly advising Hillary Clinton for months and then. Obama with Caroline Kennedy's help decides to put him on the ticket for a variety of reasons. They still didn't have a good relationship.

They had some words on the phone because Biden made some stupid gaffes about how Obama was going to be tested. You know it made it seem like he was untested and he just was not disciplined on the campaign Obama's highly disciplined and he doesn't respect that about Biden. Then something really interesting happened. First in the after the economy collapsed. And Biden watched. Obama on these conference calls with Warren Buffett and Paul Volcker and watched his command and he called him the next day after the first when he said you sold me sucker. Just the wind turbines. And then later he tells his aide Ron Klain they got the ticket in the right order. I have to admit they got the tick in the right order and he did overnight he restored American prestige in the world overnight. And Biden told me said it would have taken me two years to do that and Hillary Clinton for years will jab at Hillary and then he

admitted you know what we could have done it. He was the right man for the moment so he acknowledged that. So his view of Obama changes first and then Obama is still kind of annoyed at him for you know. This. Joke he made about Chief Justice Roberts flubbing the administration of the the oath of office and and Obama didn't want him making fun of Roberts in public for that and. And then over time what happened is. That Obama realized that even though Biden has a big mouth Owen in the transition he exclaimed learn that he excluded Biden from personnel decisions because he was worried about leaks. Then what happened was he started meeting with them. You know they have lunch every week. Seeing him in these meetings and he realized what I. Realized about Joe Biden a few years ago. He only seems like a blowhard you know.

He's actually a really extraordinarily well-informed guy and his. I was sitting in his office one day when he was talking. To one of the leaders of Iraq and he was so skillful on the phone the way he was dealing with this this guy. So he really understands foreign policy he was giving Obama very solid advice that he was very helpful in the Senate where he would tell us all colleagues you don't give me this. Bullshit about a public option I've been talking about health care for the last 20 years and you never mention a public option until now. You know so he was really helpful on that. Then when they get into these Afghanistan deliberations even though he doesn't adopt the Biden plan he's Obama's really impressed by the way Biden is is pushing the Pentagon. And challenging all their assumptions. And so at this point they have. A quite a good relationship. And Biden makes a connection with ordinary

Americans and big F-ing deal. It was very good and I maybe the White House was taken aback initially but then they put it on their website. Yes I think they were selling T-shirts which was very smart at Politics and Prose the bookstore that you spoke at there was a gentleman who came and asked a question who was asking about the president President Obama's confidence level and he said that he knew his father. He knew his father was a father was at the Kennedy School. And he said his father was so confident supremely confident just like the son he said but the father was in-your-face about it. Where Obama is more subtle and I thought that was quite fascinating and he really is very confident in what he's thinking and how he's approaching things and. I guess we saw that during the campaign but he's been rock solid. It's really interesting and there's no you know I have this chapter Zen temperament and I

try to get at some of these questions but I have to be pretty tentative when I'm making these assessments but I was struck by. One of their close friends told me that Shell said. You know. Barach spent so much time alone when he was a kid. Sometimes I think he was raised by wolves. And. She didn't mean that you know to. Dis his mother or his grandparents because he had this. Really interesting combination of a lot of love but also a kind of an abandonment by them that now. We. Nowadays where you know if you're if you're a teenager you know goes to the store by themselves you get all nervous about it and these yuppie parents are so overprotective and so involved in their kids lives that. I'm not sure they grow up as independent as as those who are you know more my age who are or Obama's age and and he

he had to learn independence. And you know he sent to live with his grandparents when he's 12 years old I guess it was. And I think that he. He had some issues but he worked them out when he wrote that first book and so he. He went through this kind of. Catharsis. Earlier And so now. You know I don't know if I would say that he's more psychologically healthy than the people in this room than the average person but he's clearly more psychologically healthy than the average politician or the average president maybe. So. You know. He's he's just not in most of these guys. Eleanor knows even more of them than I do. The messed up in the head one way or another you know they just are. Don't you think a lot of these politicians I don't think I'd put it quite this way but there they learn to channel whatever their dysfunction is usually in a positive

way. They're much more. But do you feel Obama is a bit of a control freak. He is he gets frantic about leaks. I don't know a frantic he gets when I see I see. He never really gets very frantic. I think that Martha Coakley moment might have been the most frantically guy. OK he's angry about it. Yeah he gets angry but the way he gets angry is so I have this one chapter called The I try to contrast Obama and Clinton I think the comparison to Bush is not very interesting but the comparison to Clinton is fascinating to me and Clinton has what they call purple fits where he you know takes people's heads off and gets really angry. But then you feel that warm embrace love him you know and he really you know mature. You know that you're back with him Wright and Obama. It's like a constant 60 degrees it's not cold it's not even showy but it's cool. And so when he does. Get angry and he says you know come on guys or something. And he has

are you staring at people when there's a leak which he's very intolerant. I think it's a huge waste of time going from the worry about this but. And he looks at everybody in the office does he think it's made as if it's me. And it's scary because there's a I see. And I see I or it's not a rage. He no I was not able to find anybody who has ever worked with them who say that he ever ripped anybody. It just doesn't operate that way. It's one of the reasons why people like working for him generally. But if you sit quietly in a meeting and you don't ask questions or engage you're not going to be invited back. Yes looking for intellectual yes to meetings to me. Maybe I spent too much time on this but they were just fascinating because normally in a Washington meeting you know you get together in the Cabinet Room or the Roosevelt Room and you've got the principals they call cabinet secretaries members of Congress to round a table and then

on the wall are the assistant secretaries and the aides and the principals do all the talking the experts and other experts economists and then they maybe refer a little bit to on a particular question to the people on the wall in an Obama meeting the principals maybe get to say one thing and then Obama in a Socratic dialogue kind of way is asking questions without going down the row just kind of like a professor asking questions of different people in the room and if you don't come to play and you don't have something good to say you're full of jargon or something. You might not be invited back but the good news is. That when you get home at night and your wife or husband says so you're in a meeting with the President did you say anything. You don't have to say as in prior administrations. And it's anything you know you could say Yeah I talk to the president about this and I because he really does want to drill down into an

issue and talk to the issue experts might have a better sense of what they're talking about than than the principle on the other hand I think on the economy he had too tight of a circle. And he did not get it wide enough. A ray. Of advice early on. He and so his record there was mixed. And I don't think he used his leverage over the banks the way he could have in early 2009. For somebody as eloquent as he is looking back over this year plus it's hard to come up with memorable lines plug the damn hole maybe. Maybe the best and that he has this kind of you point out he has this disdain for the conventions of Washington for soundbites he has a visceral dislike for cable television chatter. But that's the way politics are played today. So I don't know how useful that is for him.

This is a central to my mind the central point it sounds like we're talking about trivial. Cable news but it's really central. You know during the health care debate. Obama and Rahm Emanuel the others when liberals would come in and say you know how about a public option or why did you rule out single payer. And they would say quite rightly look. Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good. Politics is the art of the possible. We have to deal with the world as it is not as we want it to be in the world as it is is there aren't enough votes for a public option. Half a loaf is better than nothing and sure millions of people and it's an improvement so deal with the world as it is when it comes to the media. Obama doesn't take his own advice and he doesn't deal with the media world as it is. But as he. Hopes it will be and it's not going to be that way. So his disdain for soundbites which I think

is is one of his least helpful qualities I date to his race speech in Philadelphia during the campaign. Which had no sound bites and I wrote a terrible column saying the death of sound bites because I thought when I read the speech on my Blackberry Obama screwed there are no memorable lines. He's toast you know with this Reverend Wright thing. And it turns out it was a huge success. It was downloaded on YouTube. And so I thought you know maybe we're in a post soundbite era and you can can actually talk intelligently to the American people enough to worry about sound bites. I was totally wrong and he took the wrong lesson from that that and he forgot that Lincoln's The only house divided against itself cannot stand is a sound bite Roosevelt's the only thing we have to fear is fear itself is a sound bite and this disdain for encapsulating ideas that are in it in a way that's really memorable is really harming him.

And the speeches that he gives some of them are terrific but they're too often like fast food they wear off very quickly because there is no. Line that you can chisel into a monument. Well I want to ask you about his press conference last week about. The tragedy in the Gulf and what you learned about him in the first year as you watch him operate in this crisis whether this is what you expected or not expected and then I want to turn to the audience for questions. So the Gulf is well I think that some of the problems that we've been identifying. We're evident in the situation and also some of his is good qualities. No clearly he was on top of it. You know the idea that it's another Katrina that he didn't know was going on or you know was under illusions is not. True. He was. In a meeting about this early on but he didn't feel he needed to

show the public. That he you know felt their anxiety and their pain it's a little bit like what happened to him after the Christmas Day underwear bomber. You know he was on top of that right away when he was in Hawaii but he didn't feel he doesn't believe in gestures. But I think that is kind of naive because sometimes you do have to use symbolic gestures. The theater of the presidency and it is a theater demands that you be something of an actor and engage in symbolic gestures. And it that's just the nature of the modern presidency that Roosevelt arguably invented so Roosevelt was so good at it that. When he died and his funeral procession is moving up. Constitution Avenue. A grieving man fell to his knees and the man next to him. Help him to his feet. And as he did so he said to the grieving man. Did you know the president.

And. The first man said no. But he knew me. And here's Franklin Roosevelt He's an aristocrat. He's seemingly you know disconnected from average people but by the end of his 12 years people really felt that he connected to them. And Obama has time to make that connection but he needs to work harder at it. And and two he. Doesn't fully get he tries to get emotion out of his. Presidential decisions. And that's a great quality of detachment because you are much more rational effective policymaker if you look at the evidence and the substance and you don't react emotionally. It's a recipe for failure in the actual decisions of office. But you have to govern with some sense of emotion. You have to lead with some sense of emotion. And I think he doesn't always understand that you can use logic. To. To.

Convince somebody of your argument. But you can only only emotion will motivate people. You know what they said of the DeMoss the knees when somebody else in Greek said when when somebody else speaks. People clap when DeMoss Minnie's speaks. They march they move. And Obama had that capacity during the campaign and he can have it again but he needs to attend to it more and I think we're seeing the consequences of that in this crisis. The big question now he's not Aqua Man. You know I don't think you can expect him to like dive down a mile beneath the surface and you know plug the leak. But this this. Crisis has two parts just plugging the leak and then there's the massive cleanup that is coming when these tar balls start to hit. And I think that he could create a lot of jobs not just for fishermen but for many unemployed people and show leadership if

he that Allan. I actually think he should A. Point Al Gore even though he's going to go through a divorce. You know to supervise this and because this is going to be with us this is the big story of 2010. And it's a unbelievable disaster and and the way he responds over time will condition this president and with government so much. In the crosshairs as to as a government is government good or bad. When you see government not being able to fix it doesn't it doesn't help how government is portrayed and it morphs with the anger people feel. It is such an adequate so they don't know. Oh I agree. I don't want government I hate the government I hate the government you know Uncle Sam's sucks and then Uncle Sam help me help me you know. Well the classic was a caller on C-SPAN who suggested that they take the Capitol dome and just put that down.

And the C-SPAN moderator very straight face says Well thank you for sharing your engineering insights with us. You know it's a public that it's all about temperament. And I mean you know there was this public temperament and the classic story about Franklin Roosevelt was a few days after the inauguration. And he goes over to Oliver Wendell Holmes as 90 second birthday party and they have some bootleg champagne. Which I thought was a can you imagine Obama like a few days after the inauguration going over and having some smoking some weed at somebody's house. Anyway so he goes over there when he leaves. Holmes. Famously remarks second class intellect. First class temperament. And meeting Churchill said meeting Roosevelt was like opening a bottle of champagne. He just made you feel better. When when he talked to you. So here now we get

to Obama he has a first class intellect he is smarter than Franklin Roosevelt by a considerable margin. And it seemed like he had the perfect first class temperament. At the end of the campaign especially in contrast to erratic John McCain you know he seemed like he had the cool temperament that we want in a crisis but we don't really know yet whether he has a first class public temperament and what whether his temperament is matched to the times and it's one of the great mysteries that we're all going to be demanding an incredible connection though with a lot of people who hadn't voted before and particularly with young people and this gives me the chance to talk about your son who spotted this talent before you did. My daughter won't be happy that I'm telling you it's. My when my son was 13. I mention this this cover story that I wrote Obama about Obama at the end of

2004. He had been elected to the Senate but not yet sworn in so he was technically a state senator. And I brought Tommy my my 13 year old down. And I interviewed Obama and. My son mostly just want to go to the Chicago Bulls Washington Wizards game but he came with me and after the interview he was so impressed he said Dad that guy's going to be president in 2008. And I petted him better than Tommy. Have you covered politics as long as I mean there's just no chance of that happening. You know maybe in 2016 perhaps but not likely. And so when I went in to interview the president in November of last year it was right after Thanksgiving. And you get about a minute 30 small talk with Obama and then he says OK he gives you a really strong signal that it's time for get down to brass tacks It's actually kind of a refreshing

quality. People like this about him. So we're in this brief small talk phase we're walking in and I suggest a good Thanksgiving. It's there you had a great Thanksgiving. We went to the George Washington Oregon State Games brother in law. Craig Robinson is the coach of Oregon State and Craig's mother. Obama's mother in law Marian Robinson was sitting next to him and he says you know what she kept. Punching me every time the game got close and I said look you know first of all you're hurting me and second of all if you don't stop this the Secret Service is going to haul you out of you know. So I said well you know my son goes to GW and being a good politician is your son the one. That I met. He's already in college you know. And I said yeah and I told him the story that I just told you. And he says will you tell Tommy to. Say hello. And you tell him he should have talked me out of it.

And then knowing I was a reporter is a joke a joke. Well I think we've got some mikes set up if you want to begin to line up and while they're getting in place I have to ask about Michelle Obama. You know I get the feeling is an equal partner in this enterprise. But she's been pretty careful to. Be very soft really in public and she her poll ratings are very high the country loves or so she's doing very well but there are some nice little tidbits about I'm trying to ask about the Carla Bruni story. OK. Still answering calls from British tabloids about this. Well they they call her the supreme leader in the West Wing and she's she doesn't sit in on policy meetings the way Hillary Clinton and Rosalynn Carter did. And she's not as. You know actively involved in personnel decisions as Nancy Reagan was but your own quiet

way. She's. Very influential So I want to Congressman. Congressman George Miller went over to the White House and have lunch with Obama and the Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act was in his committee and he says to the president well you know Michelle Obama the first lady is very interested in the. The Bill. So I got some advice for you George. I move that bill out of committee real fast for you. Right. So I would call a Bernie story just very briefly is that I was very interested in Obama's interactions with world leaders and I heard that when the wife of the president of France met with Michelle Obama. She's you know former model who had a CD she released recently my 30 lovers.

And she says she says to. The first lady one of the things I don't like about being first lady my husband I have less time to make love than what we did one time very recently we we kept a head of state waiting for one hour while we completed our lovemaking. And do you do you and the president ever do such a thing. Actually no but so and so somehow the British tabloids got it into their head that it was the queen of England that they had kept waiting and so they kept calling me. No no it was not the Queen of England now who kept the French kept her waiting word kept the Sharknado from and I know they are not so sure that that's true. Carla Bruni OK so unfortunately I know that you would like it if there was more but that's about the time OK. But I haven't been able to get a man to the sex. OK all right let's go over here and then we'll go

crisscross. Hi this is fantastic. My name's Elena Kagan from the Cape Cape Cod. I'm really trying this but I have to tell you the most shocking thing you said tonight is that Al Gore is going to last. I mean I just can't believe this. OK. For those who didn't get the message yeah it was very surprising for those. I mean you didn't expect to do that. No but then I began to analyze myself and would I be more shocked if the Clintons were divorcing and I decided I wouldn't be because they have an ongoing political partnership and I concluded that the Gores are like a lot of people who've reached an age where they have an empty nest and they each have their own interests and separate interests lead to separate lives. And I decided that you know good for them that they can be this honest. But I'm think it's very sad it's a it was them and their family and for all of us who thought that they were the you know the company that could survive all the political turmoil so that's my thought summed up why and I said what about Wall Street.

What is going on. I mean I don't really. Now I don't want to scream I would last really going to be controlled. Well you know the legislation that is about to be reconciled the House and Senate versions. It's good. I don't think it's good enough. It does some good things like it has a consumer. Financial Protection Agency that presumably Elizabeth Warren. Who's been a peer at Harvard Law School will head. And that will protect against predatory lending and some other things that have. Needed to be changed for a long time. There's some other you know new reserve capital requirements other things but basically. It doesn't break up. The banks it doesn't fundamentally do anything about too big to fail. And it it could have been in my view a much better and even the transparency. Part of it is not where it should be so derivatives for

instance they have some of them that will be publicly disclosed in the clearinghouse. But there's a whole category of private derivatives that can be done over the telephone. So who what regulator or third party of any kind can supervise that really involved. Yes he's really involved in all this legislation and he's. Held endless meetings with members of Congress some of whom are. Very sharp and some of whom have room temperature IQ you know. So it's it's a mix but yeah he's very determined to put points on the board as they say and I'm I'm I'm interested in. You know how all that works. And so there's quite a bit in the book especially on health care and other other issues about. The way he handles legislation. But as I mentioned it's a sausage

factory and the sausage usually really smells. I mean. I've heard that. One. Legislator. Is holding up all of Obama's. Appointments. What would be Obama's reaction to that. Well in the Senate as David McCain knows any senator. Can put a hold on. Any. Bill or appointment one senator can stop the whole thing. And when you know Republicans are in control of the White House and the Senate Democrats like that because they can stop what they consider to be bad things happening. But now the Democrats are in control. It's it's very frustrating and you do have particularly a couple of senators Senator Coburn from Oklahoma who I think is the person you're referring to Senator demand who said you know we will break the president.

Health care will be his Waterloo. Very patriotic things to say in my mind a break the president would want to fail. You know so they'll do anything they can even if on final passage it passes 98 to nothing. Just to slow things down cause them trouble they use whatever parliamentary techniques they can. And there are some efforts to try to change the rules Senator Harkin has a bill to to do that but you know I wouldn't bet on it being successful. I think a lot of the frustration in the country about legislation is that people are paying attention for the first time in a long time or maybe ever and there it they don't they can't believe this is how our system works but it is how the system works. There are some efforts at reform and the filibuster reform. Perhaps by and by the way they've gotten so much more done in the last year than they have in prior years. It's not like you know they call it a broken branch of government in many ways it is but I really do have to give Palosi and Reid a fair amount of credit for moving an awful

lot of legislation. Great. Would you tell us a little bit about how you perceive the relationship between the president and Hillary Clinton and how Joe Biden is involved in all of them politically as well as personally. I do have a chapter picking Hillary. You know obviously it was done. Over the objections of a lot of people in the Obama campaign who just. Couldn't believe that. After all the bad feeling that Obama would do this because very characteristic of him to want to look ahead. He had no. Real recriminations. His relationship with Bill Clinton. Continued to be not very good. They didn't begin at all in the first three months of the administration. And there was just a lot of bad feeling there when. You know Clinton Bill Clinton called Obama the chosen one in a very contemptuous way and when Obama was asked who is spreading. Dirt about him in the

Jewish community during the campaign he said it's the F-ing Clintons you know and he was mostly talking about Bill and but with Hillary Hillary's mind in Obama's mind kind of work in the same way they're both deductive thinkers whereas Bill Clinton's an inductive. Thinker and an Obama when he was asked you know OK so why buy top people so. You know when they're deliberating over whether to choose or he says look. Let's just end this. She's the most qualified OK I'm picking her. You know it wasn't really any more complicated than that. And then their relationship which was a little tentative at first and somebody who observed it said it was a little bit like teenagers on you know the first date. Now it's gotten more comfortable it's surprisingly on fraught. And I wish there was more drama there I would have had more to write about. And that part of the book. But I think they actually get together get along pretty well.

Their staffs are really at each other and there's real bad still bad feeling between the State Department in the White House. At the at the staff level. But you know she's. Very able.