WGBH Station; WGBH Forum Network; Lidia Cooks from the Heart of Italy

I have to tell you that I really have been, you know, part of what we get to do is really to follow our passions as producers here were given a lot of editorial freedom, and we try to bring that best television that we possibly can to television. And when I first met Lydia I have to say I have never seen anybody who strikes a chord in people's hearts, the way that Lydia does. I think she is kind of everyone's grandmother, their Nonna. I think they think of her as their aunt. They think of her as the mother, that they wish they had. And I think she is also a very passionate communicator, and I think for a public television audience one of the things that I think resonates, is authenticity. People really know someone who is passionate about cooking, about teaching, about bringing the world to television. It is my privilege to introduce, Lidia Bastianich. [2 Italian sentences]I want to say thank you, Laurie that was really wonderful Laurie. And let me tell you when you throw that pasta to the

wall, if it sticks it is done. And there's a reason for it too and that's why I tell you not to put olive oil in the- in the water or to rinse the pasta because, ah, when it's cooked just right there's that little bit of starch where the sauce adheres to. So that's if you throw it to the wall it sticks, anyway. But if you- if you know but, so don't rinse the pasta and don't put olive oil when you cook the pasta, because you don't get that kind of a little bit of stickiness. PBS. I've been only on PBS and that's the choice that I made. At, at, the very beginning, how my story begins, it's of course with books and restaurants, and we'll go into that maybe a little later. But ah,ah, as far as television, in when I had my first restaurant, my first restaurant the city, Julia Child, James Beard, all the great sort of foodies would come to the restaurant, and wanted to know what this woman was cooking, this regional Italian food, what is that all about. And ah, I became friends with Julia Child

and ultimately she asked me to come, on her show so I did two episodes of her master chef serious, and one of them was nominated for an Emmy, ah which were very proud, but out of that came of course..the producer asking me, Lydia, you know you project very well, you're a good communicator, would you consider having ah,ah a television show, cooking show. And I thought about it, ah,ah for a while, of course I would. I mean, you know, I wanted to communicate, I wanted to share, you know, what, what I was doing. So take it beyond the table of the restaurant, take it into books and into television. I think that, ah, that was my dream but, I had, I had two two requests I said of him, to him and I said one, that we taped the show in my house, and that we did. And the tape, the show, the actual cooking is still done in my house, and grandma lives upstairs and that's where she comes down all the time. {laugher} And ah, and the second one is that I be on public television because

I think, you know, ah, you know, I love food. But in ah, order for me to be creating what I do, I need art, I need music, and I think that what public television delivers to, to the living rooms, into the homes of people, is something that I wanted to be involved. And so it's been 12 years, and yes, I've been asked by different station here and there, but I'm, I'm still committed and here I am. And this is ah,ah a relationship, a joint effort between you and I, because unless you are here, you call in, your support, you tell Laurie what you want, ah, and you tell her that you like shows like mine of course. Then, then, then ah, I wouldn't have an opportunity to make, maybe be on public television, and continue to be on television, so I really thank you, ah for your support, for your, for watching the show, for your continuous

support to public television because that guarantees, that I will continue to air so {Italian-gratias.} {Clapping} That, that. OK, so I thought it would be fun to just go back a little bit because I think a lot of people really don't know, how rich and wonderful, your background is so let's talk a little bit. You grew up in Istria and I think it would be interesting for people to hear about that. Yes. Yes, OK. So Istria is, if you're looking at the Italy, and the boot, and then the right hand corner there's a little appendage, a little peninsula. And now is not it Italy. But it used to be Italy and that's called East Italy. And in World War 2 ah, of course Italy lost, it was on the wrong side and part of the spoils of war, that part of Istria and the Maisha was given to Yugoslavia and which Tito and communism came in. So we were caught, and this was around '47, in February in 1947. Ah, I

was just born right on the cusp so, because there was an opportunity for ethnic Italians to go back to Italy before the iron curtain went up, went down. But I was just a baby and we stayed and we got caught behind the Iron Curtain, and we ah, couldn't leave then. So about 10 years thereafter in 1956 my parents decided that they need to go back to Italy because we couldn't speak Italian, we couldn't practice our religion. We, we you know, my mother was an elementary school teacher she, she had to sort of take up the, the Yugoslavian whatever it was. Ah, and and so it was very difficult. But they wouldn't let the whole family leave. So my mother, my brother, myself left as tourist. Now as a child I didn't know that we were not going to go back but my father ultimately escape the border, and we caught up in three years there, and then ultimately moved on to, to the United States. Can you talk a little bit about, kind of--don't you always wonder kind of, what were Lydia's earliest kind of

childhood memories of food. You know I mean, because I just think of what were the food memories what are the things that you? Well I, I, because of the situation, ah ah My mother I spent a lot of time with my grandmother maternal grandmother and grandfather. Although my paternal grandparents were in the same town, so it was, but because in the city I couldn't of course speak or go to church, my grandmother sort of snuck me into a church and did all these things. But what was wonderful about it I think, in those, of my formative years was that the setting was she grew and had everything that we needed as far as food. We had chickens, goose, ducks, pigs, goats. We milked the goats, we made the sausages just in November. We made our olive oil in late, late November. Then the wine, with distilled the grappa, we dried the figs, we dried the beans. I went to harvest the potatoes. So ah when, when at that young

age. And you take a piece of still warm bread made in the brick oven, with wood brick oven and you dunk it in the oil this just running down, those flavors ah,ah you can't forget. And that's part of my kind of reference library as far as flavors. I think that sort of guided my, my whole future. Let's talk a tiny bit about Trieste because it was kind of two years you went, you ended up in a refugee camp for those two years before you actually ended up coming to America. Right. So the America, the the my parents tried to settle in Italy because we were Italians, and of course Italy accepted us, and we had relatives in there. But it was difficult. It was difficult to find a job. We lived with a great aunt, and she sort of supported us. And you know it was, my parents felt well maybe we should move on. And in order to do that, we had, we entered a political refugee camp and we were there for two years, which sort of left you

in, in a situation that you know, you waited for an opportunity because ah, as Italians you know certainly America, America wasn't taking any refugees at that time from any, any immigrants from any place. But, ah, ah Dwight Eisenhower made a special provision. That political refugees, refugees escaping communism were allowed to come in, and we were part of that waiting line. And for two years we were in this in the ?compass sense our But? which now is a museum in Trieste ?years thing?. And until our turn came and ultimately we were brought here by the Catholic Relief Services. We didn't have anybody here so they brought us here, they, they settled us, they found us a home after, after about two months and work for my Mom and Dad and ultimately we began to be Americans. When you came, now say, I mean you always think where did you come first. You actually ended up coming to New York, right? Do they...

We, we yes they put us in ?Walcot? hotel. This ah, and it was on 36th Street and 7th Avenue. And we stayed there for about two months. So, right in the middle, you know for my brother and I. He's two years older. To be in the middle of these big buildings, I mean coming from a small town, it was just wonderful. My parents, cried and cried and cried. But you know, we, we went out. They took, when we were allowed to only go around the block. And my brother had to hold me by the hand. But, yeah, it was, it was a tremendous experience for us. Coming ah, right in the middle of New York and then slowly they found a little home in New Jersey and we stayed there for about six months and jobs for my parents and then a distant cousin, found us. He lived in Queens so we came back in Astoria and that's where our story begins. And you started working early on didn't you, cooking, actually because your mom was cooking. I mean your mom was working.

Yeah. My mom was working late so I was ?chief?, she stayed, her job stayed in New Jersey so to come across, she would be home at seven o'clock at night so she would set everything up and I would cook, finish the dinner and I had a grand grand time doing it. But also at 14 ah, ah I began working in the bakery, Walken Bakery, actually Christopher Walken. We are still friends. {Laughter} ah, so his ah, his ah. His parents had Walken's bakery, a German bakery and I went there, I, because you know I needed to supplement a little bit. ah, The money helped the family and Saturday, ah,ah Saturdays and Sundays I worked part time. And ah, I told him ah, I was 16. I was only 14 when I started. But I was a big girl. So we won't tell right? {Laughter} But yeah, we still remain then, then Then I brought my mother over. And so she came to work and that was close to home. and yah, with Christopher Walken and his family we're remain friends actually I just went to see him he had to be ?handing? in Spokane, he just he'll be there until June was a great job

great show. So I have to ask, what was it like cooking for your mother. Because ah, ah And to know the memories of what you cooked for your mother? Oh, I think there was a lot of soups involved because soups are kind of a nutritional and, and there's, you know sort of, you can't burn them as much. So she would have the beans, you have the beans because I was doing my homework and cooking and setting the table and everything by the time she came home. So I remember you know, she would soak the beans or whatever and she would leave step one, step two step three. And I would make it up, and then sort of really got into it, and I really enjoyed it. And you know then, then, I graduated, than I got fascinated by this cake mixes. You know {laughter} this American cake mixes and I used to make and cupcakes and, and regular cakes because it was fascinating that if you mix, then you put an egg in there were ever the whole thing would come up. So I did, we had a lot of the desserts. Now let's see. OK, I know we want to talk about, for Lydia. You know, what are the things that Lydia

will not say about herself but she really is, you know the person who came to this country, saw this as a land of opportunity, and really seized that opportunity and has many, many successful restaurants. But really the flagship which continues to go very very strong is ?Full Lydia? Right. My first restaurant was in 19, we opened in 1971. It was in the suburbs, and it was called ?one Ivy? and now I was 24. I had one child by then and I was not a professional chef. I mean even through college and all that, I worked in restaurants, to help to to supplement my education. But, but I was not so. When we, my husband on the other hand whom I met, he was in the business and he always wanted to open the restaurant, so when we decided that I would help him. But I wasn't a chef we hired an Italian-American chef and for 10 years I worked as the Sou chef of this Italian American chef. Until I, I really got the, sort of the the, the professionalism of being a chef. But then I went back to

school and, and I began cooking my own little regional things. And in 1981 we opened ?For Lydia?. We sold those places. We opened for {For Lydia} in New York City and then I became the chef. And I cooked at that time ah, the food of my region because that's what I know my region ?Veneto? a few regions. I didn't know all of Italy because I hadn't traveled all of Italy although we began going back every year to really Ah, ah A journey, myself in a sense and ?For Lydia? became yes, sort of the Mecca for the journalist for Julia Child as I said before, and all of that, all of these foodies you know who is this woman cooking in these very regional, strange Italian food which was not the traditional Italian American but regional Italian food. What was it, What was the experience that you wanted people to take away from that restaurant because I know you, you had a vision. You had a, had a strong vision of what did you want people to say, this is the experience I want them to have.

Well I wanted to be as close as I could to what really Italy, is the food in Italy what I ate as a child, what we still ate at home. And you know Laurie, wasn't that easy because if you go back to 1971, you couldn't even get some of the ingredients. And to transport a cuisine what you really need is traditional ingredients and the technique. So what I wanted I wanted them to really feel my region, feel the Italy that I knew the intensity of flavors because, you know, they would, they would go out a lot in traveling ?says?you come back here and the food is not the same as in Italy. And it is difficult to transport even, to this day. And I mean I'm talking about almost 44 years later. Ah, It's, it's difficult to have 100 percent Italian restaurant when you're transported because just the elements are a little bit different. So I know for, for really everything that you do, it's all about the family. And I know that there came a point when you decided to kind of join forces with your son, and ah talk a little bit

about that. And the restaurants you opened, working with him. Well, the kids you know, grew up in the restaurant business, ah because you know as I said, I had Joseph ?Tanner? was born a year after we opened our first restaurant. And it was kind of the family support system you know, my mother we lived you know ah, upstairs and downstairs and she would help, so the kids would come to the restaurant, they would do their homework on tomato boxes, on this and that. And ultimately, ultimately go home with grandma. You know, eat and then go home with grandma. But you know we were very much into, into education. This is America and you know all the opportunities were here. And ah, you know, I told my children I said, you know, no, you need, you're not going to do this. This might look interesting, might be fun, but you need to get your education and move on. And actually my son came to Boston College. He did, I think political science and, and philosophy, then went as as an analyst, down on Wall Street.

And my daughter Tanya, she she did what Georgetown, and then ultimately ended up with a Ph.D. from Oxford. So in Renaissance art history and she helps with the books and all of that. So, so they, they had their education but both working with me. {laughter} But they have their education. Thank you. And, and you know, one day my son just came over and he said you know, Ma, he was down on Wall Street I think about, after five years that he was down there, and he said I think you know, I want ah, I want to change my job. And I says why? He says because I'm not really happy, and I says, What do you want to do? So he told me, I want to hang around here {laughter} I didn't know what that meant, but he's a serious guy. The first thing was, he went to Italy for a whole year, and up and down Italy. Then came back and just went at it with a vengeance in the great restauranteur and a businessman, and you tried some of his wine, Bastinanich wine, so I'm very proud of him as I am of my daughter.

Talk about the vineyards, where are the vineyards? The vineyards are... So we come from northeast, you know, Istria there is no longer Italy. But I do go back to Istria every time I visit. I have the grandparents' home now it's Croatia, its Democratic. So it's a democratic country so I go there, but we have, we bought this place I guess ?he's in for you when I said Julia? which is the region that borders now with Slovenia and Austria. And Trieste is the capital. And that's where the white, the white wine is made the Bastinanich wineries there. And we go there every summer with his kids, he has three kids, my daughter has two. So we go back often and get the children also to sense their roots. It's fabulous. So I just want to quickly, just kind of go through public television too, kind of the, the wonderful. It's been 12 years that you've been on public television. Talk about just, the very first television series that you did and kind of your vision for that. And I know there are books that went along with the writing. So the first, well I had, the first book was

"Lidia" that was in 1990, and that came out of Jay Jacobs who who wrote for Gourmet magazine. He lived across the street; he would always come in, he said Lidia you know, you need to put these recipes down. And I said, Jay but I'm, I'm not a writer. He says I'll do it with you! So it's a collaboration and that, that was kind of the sort of loosening up of me, being able to let out information, and put it down. And then after that came "Lidia's Italian American Kitchen" and that was the first series, and that book was based on the Italian, because as I told you, I apprenticed with my chef who was Italian American, and for me that was almost the new cuisine. Learning you know that food of Italian American is not something that I cooked at home or that we ate. The underlying philosophy in the, in the, you know in the elements, tomatoes than oil and all of that were there. But, but so, so 10 years being alongside with him I really learned that cuisine. But in this book, and in the series, I went beyond, I really researched

what made the Italian cuisine difference, different and what where that belongs in Italy. And actually, the Italian American cuisine, is a cuisine about adaptation. When those early immigrants came they didn't have their products, they adopted what they remembered the recipes, the memory,, to the products that they found. You know, for example the tomato; tomato is, is a new world product. It came to, to Italy after. But the Italy, somehow in Italy they somehow professed it in the sense that you get that, that San Marzano tomato. So it's sweet, and it's low in seeds, in seeds and pits. Here you have the beautiful, at least when they came, the big tomatoes which were, which had a lot of acidity and some seeds, which the seeds have tannins and they make the sauce bitter so the addition of a lot of garlic, the addition of sugar which didn't happen in Italy. So the Italian American cuisine, it's, it's an extraordinary cuisine of adaptation of, of a people coming to, a country and

doing what they found. So I actually I feel that that's part of the Americana story. So let's talk about kind of what, the evolution that came to, Lidia's, that led to Lidia's Italy and we're now actually starting Lidia's Italy force. But kind of talk a little bit about that. Well, from there that I went to Lydia's Italy that was the next series, we did 26 episodes ah, ah and you know there was Lidia's Italian, ?Don't you know we have to? remember this, but that's-- OK. {laughter} Can we go back, go back, go back to--But anyway so, So that was Italy, just the cuisine of Italy, and I did it all in from, from the studio, meaning my kitchen. The one that followed I said OK, so what I'm going to share because I was getting great responses from all of you in emails and you wanted to know, you wanted to know more the questions about my family and, and the, the question of my family is, is the reality, you know, this is what we do, this is what we are, Grandma lives upstairs my kids and we really, we really do these these, these things so all the recipes, and that was a great

series and a great book. And then I said OK, now I have to take you to Italy. So "Lidia's Italy" and "Lidia Cooks from the Heart of Italy" are it's, it's fifty, ah one hundred fifty six, if you want, one hundred twelve episodes with two books, that ran ah across, four years. And, and this addresses all 20 regions of Italy. Italy has twenty regions so in "Lidia's Italy" you have 10 regions and in "Lidia Cooks in the Heart of Italy" you have the other 10 regions. In Lidia's Italy and sort of Istia, there which is not a region of Italy, but just because I came from there. I had to, I had to, {laughter} you know, because where was the genesis, where was I born. I had to do that, and I think this book is really wonderful because it addresses Lidia cooks from the heart of Italy, it addresses the less known regions of Italy like Calabria Basilica. Ah,ah..So a lot of people because some of the first immigrants that came from Italy were from

Calabria, from Sicily, from Basilicata. So a lot of the recipes, a lot of people say, "Ah finally, Calabria, Calabrese. You have my, the recipes of my heritage." So um, And we are up to the present. Yes. So do we want to talk... I think, we're supposed to talk about the kids books first. Yes let's talk about kids because this is really nice, you know Lidia has been inspired to write a wonderful children's book and I think, just as, again this is a nice preview. It's coming out in October but tell Yes, September. Everybody about it because it's quite special. It's "Nona, tell me a story" so at our house, you know, when the kids come, after we finish eating or whatever. We kind of... My bed is the bed, we all pile up in the bed. And then they sort of kind of count, who's going to sleep with me because you know, taking turns and so "Nona, tell me a story" and the stories that they love most is the story of my childhood. You know when I grew up in the setting of, you know, milking the goats and the when the new, new kid was born the new goat,

baby goat was born and we used, I used to tie a red ribbon and we used to kind of play with them. Ah, when I used to go gather the warm eggs from the chicken or from, from the duck, and I had the story, always I had this mean duck as she always laid the egg someplace else. And I had to go and find it, and then she would come and peck me. She would but I had a stick. [laughter] So, so they loved these stories. So I said you know, and it was around Christmas time, I think, this happened that this book was written about four or five years ago, actually. And then slowly came to, to, to life. But ah, the Christmas tree you know when I was little, we didn't have all these ornaments, and the tree that we did usually didn't take the top of a tree, killed a tree for a Christmas tree, we usually took a bush, a juniper bush or something like that, and we would decorate it and we would put on it apples or oranges and all kinds of nuts, all the things that were kind of reserved in the cantina, that they would save the

fruit, dried figs we would make wreaths with. Wwth bay leaves and sort of turned around. We baked. Lots of cookies, and we made candies and whatever, all of this ?wrap? and all this became the Christmas tree so we called it the edible Christmas tree. So this is the story that I tell here to my grandchildren, how I did it and ultimately, you know, the kids say can we do a Christmas tree like that and we do. We decorate the Christmas tree like that and I give the recipes of the, of the, of the cookies that we baked and all of that. So it's a, ah,a Christmas tree story of how to make that edible Christmas tree, if you will. And we didn't have gifts and I told them, you know for us the Epiphany, the sixth day of January was the big day where you finally ate the tree. [ laugher]But, but, but, No, no, we snuck in there before, we used to...we used to we used to unravel the candy, eat the candy and put a pebble in there.

And I think one of the very nice things which Lydia, as you were talking about yesterday, one of the things not only in passing on kind of the story of the very personal traditions and the history was also just to kind of encourage people again, to spend time with their kids, to read with their kids. Ah, You know, I think, you know it's. The world is going just too fast for children, I think today. And there's no better place to, to sort of ,make it all come to a halt, and then table, table and working with them in the kitchen, and such reward. But the table is, and I get a lot of comments from all of you, the viewers, and the one that I get most is, Lydia you maybe come back to the table. The importance of the table and I'm so, so, I feel so wonderful that if I am instrumental in what I do, and you allow me to come in your homes, and I appreciate that very much and I think that very seriously and personally.

But if I can sort of Ah, ah just stimulate the idea of getting back to the table with the family, with the kids, then you know. maybe it's a great satisfaction for me. It's fabulous. Thank you [clapping] And you have a plan too. So this is not, this is the first event you're going to talk about that wicked, wicked duck right? [laughter} That was a good idea. I like to roast it, the best. [laugther] And I'll give you a recipe one of these days, and that's the that's the gruesome line. Are you going to see one of my restaurants in Boston? Ah, ah. I think, I think you're well-supplied with restaurants. Now not mine but, I, you know it's, it's, I don't know if my son or whatever really now sort of deferred to, if they want to grow and a lot of the growth that we had in Kansas City, in Pittsburgh, is because of

him and wanted to grow. So I, you know, I'm there, when, when and how they need me, but I'm not going to initiate any restaurant. But just, just to let you know I was this morning as I said up in the north end in less than a square mile you have a hundred and three Italian restaurants. Wow. That's unbelievable. You know I was there this morning so I didn't have lunch but let me tell you, it was rainy, we had a lot of coffee. We had coffee at Maria's, we had coffee in ?Sportello Maria.? We had a coffee cappucino at the Modern. Then we went to the to the Salumeria. We had a little nibble of a sandwich. So I mean we were, we were all over, we were there early in the morning. We were out there already. I mean some of the stores weren't even open. It was great. It was really wonderful. What is your connection to Pittsburgh and Kansas City? Well those are the restaurants that when my son came on board and the first restaurant that we opened together was ?Becco?, that's on 46th street in the

theater district, and that was a big success, and then he wanted to expand. You know. He's born in America, he's an American. He felt maybe middle America. They're under service to our products, and let's try Kansas City, and Pittsburgh came. And, and also I think the third restaurant ?Mario Batali? and us, we are partners in all of the restaurants and then Babbo came and so on with my son and Mario and so on. Seasonal food question about Easter and Italians. Have you ever made Italian meatloaf? Yes. You have had it. How did you make it? Oh, I made it. I make it in many different ways. In this, in this book I have it with where I put ricotta in it. Have you ever tried with ricotta? And that's from ?Le Marca?. And it makes it so delicious and moist. So you know that the onions, the-- Yes, tell me.

The egg in the center. Yeah. yeah. The egg in the center is, is you put the boiled egg in the center. Yeah. But there's many different ways. I think you know the question is on on, wants a nice moist and tasty. I just tested some for the next book and where I do a ?pistata? of celery, carrots, and onions and then I soak the bread in milk. You know all bread in milk and all of that and then of course dry oregano and salt and pepper and cheese and parsley and, and the eggs in the center, yes. Hello. I was wondering, I know Felidia's been there a long time and I love the lady and it's one of my favorite restaurants and our wine director came in with your wine director David Hopper. I wondered how much you're there, how much you enjoy still being in the restaurant. Whether you're involved in the daily operations,, or whether you leave that to other people now and, and whether you miss it, if you can't, with all the wonderful things that you're doing for public television. Yes, I really need to enjoy what I do otherwise I

just can't do it, so I really enjoy being in a restaurant. Not as much on the line as I was. I think that my role now has become more of a mentor and it's a great role because I think you know through the years and from from 71 to certainly many years, you take in, you know, you learn you you mature, you grow, you develop who you are as a professional, and then you're at the peak and you really do your thing. And then this you have to give some of this back. And I think the great satisfaction now is in, even with the other restaurants this young chefs that come along and I collaborate with them and how can one have so many restaurants one asks, you know, and it's because the restaurants are not I don't impose my taste on my otherwise I would have to be there. What I do is that I take the talent that this individual has and we work together. So, so you know it's almost like like physics. If you give me inertia it's very hard for me to get a star, I have to give all my energy. But

if you give me energy, then it's easy for me to move it so when you get this young chef's full of energy full of want to whatever and you have to give them room to create. You just mentor them. You are there with them. We take trips to Italy. We go out to restaurants and eat. My, my, my great satisfaction of the restaurants are of course walk in them and greeting the people once you know everything is in motion. Still that hospitality element. Behind the house is really mentoring and working with the young people. The question is that a lot of Italian people coming from Italy have told him that Italian food in America is like Italian food decades ago that they ate. ah, If you're talking about Italian- American food, doesn't exist in Italy. You don't eat-- if you talk about meatballs, spaghetti and meatballs is not something unless it's trying to please the thing. It's the little, the little meatballs in the lasagna. Yes, in Naples you have

you have the soup, the ?Maritata?, with meatballs in there. You have the ?Polpetta? which are meatballs which are fried and you eat them like that. So, so, it's in Italy this, the cuisine of Italian-American, is not the cuisine. What was eaten decades ago if I remember the cuisine of my people, it was a cuisine that was more based on animal fat and, you know, much more. But that everybody has in life. You know that's a natural progression of our needs. I mean one needs to evolve that. But the cuisine, a major, major change, I mean the lighter. Yes. Yeah. You know. But the ratio, if you talk about vegetables and starches and all of that maybe because also of necessity. I remember eating a lot more vegetables and Polenta and pasta than I ever did meat. And the meat that was used was prepared in such a way

you know, not the big steaks or whatever it was. The animal was rarely slaughtered just to enjoy it, like, you know, the prime meat or the Kobe beef or whatever, it serviced, and then it was slaughtered and then the meat was stuffed so it was cooked in longer cooking techniques brazing or whatever, and the little meat gave a lot of flavor, cooked a long time, and went a long way so it was like a flavoring agent. And within my restaurants, and you know more than 30 years of running restaurants, I tried forever to, to, the ratio of proteins to the vegetables and the carbohydrates in a plate. You know in America still the dominant has to be the protein, you know. I guess that delineates value. The protein is what you pay for. And, it's, I mean, it's, you know, it's two thirds protein and one third of everything else versus, you know, the meals that I can remember. The other way around it's one third of protein and maybe two thirds of the rest. So you know

the talk about an Italian-American cuisine, that's completely different. But the other elements... I think it's more nutritional that changed. I have a lot of friends here, you know. So I am, I am, yes, staying at the Charles and the ?Altos? there are great, a great restaurant, and she's a dear friend so that's a good restaurant and I think that's where I'm going to eat since I'm right there. OK. If I'm to send young chefs to Italy for the experience, what regions are not to be missed? Now, there's 20 regions and I can tell you and I can tell you that each one of them has its gems in food. A lot of it are based on seasonality. You know, if you go to ?Italy? in the fall and whatever, you know, it's certainly Piedmonte, Lombardia, the risotto, the soups, the truffles. Trentino, you know, the north really excelled in those

winter, winter dishes. You talk to me about eggplant and tomatoes. Sicily in July and August. You talk to me about chicories and dry pasta in all of that spring into summer in ?Puglia? which is the ?heel?. So you don't talk to me about fresh tomatoes and pizzas and all of that. Rome and Naples. So you know it's all different. I think that you know pasta making Emilia Romagnia, Bologna. Absolutely. It's, I mean that's pasta. I mean the flag might as well be a sheet of pasta. I get asked a lot of time to advise them on what they, what they should do as chefs. You know just to pursue the career of a chef. I think. I tell them first of all you finish your college, and in college choose something that you love and major whether it's music, whether its art, whether it's whatever you, whether it's architecture or whatever. Focus on that. Get a good basic education and begin to dabble in the cooking and work and

then go on to culinary school. You need something other than real professional culinary. And again always experience, always work with different people. This is just like working with different mentors you have to experience in order to collect what you want out of them, and then traveling is a must. If you're going to cook a cuisine, and you know sometimes young people are confused by whether it's France, a French food or whether Spanish or this Italian. You must live it. You must taste it in situ. Otherwise you would just never know what to do. And you know that sometimes it's difficult for a lot of, lot of youngsters. But there are opportunities, you know, whether you work on ships and you travel, whether you work for hotels. And a lot of the restaurants I know in Italy, we do exchanges and we set young people up. They work. You know, they're not paid or anything. And they have to be able to, to, to be able to do that. But it's invaluable experience abroad, living, shopping with the culture. It seems that, that, that, is the

case and I think it's because of the trans fats also you know the use of olive oil the vegetables. I think in a lot of the legumes a lot of all of that may be more balance and if you eat seasonally you will balance it that way because in the wintertime you know short of, of, of, cabbage or whatever vegetable you have preserved or dried, whatever the legumes are left, you know, and you just see them there at the basis of everything, you know, whether its lentils, whether there is dry favas where there is, you know, and those are used a lot so I think that just living within the climate and seasonally really dictates. Italy's approach to cuisine is at all threatened by the internationalization, Fast Food Nation, in super-size me, in frozen foods, in eat and run? It is in other parts of the world.

It is as, as, as, the rest of the world is. Certainly it's a big industry. And the money element factor. But the one good thing: the Italians are not so ready to give up their flavor, their, their products. You know an Italian needs his ?Grana Padano?, his Parmigiano-Reggiano his prociutto and just will not settle for anything else. There's, there's there's no way, and I think maybe, you know one wonders, you know, why we like the Italian lifestyle. I wonder myself you know sometimes why is the Italian lifestyle so, so admirable by many and the food and the art and the music, and I think because Italians are very individualistic if you will, you know, very family orientated, but they're they're not. Italy was only unified about 150 years ago.

So they, they don't follow mass philosophy or mass whatever and within that context, you know, all of that is very important and they have- there's more time I think to concentrate for, for the good and for the, for the, for the, bad on oneself on the intimacy and maybe the creativity and all of that region's 20, dialects more than 20, folk songs-- you can, you know, I mean, and you talk about maybe a part of something else but it's basic as a pasta fagoli ?20, 20? kilometers away. If mine is better than yours and it's... So, so, so, it's a, it's the beauty of it, it's like it's like the ?mosaics?, you know, if you view the ?mosaics of Ravenna? You know those little dots. But I think that's why, you know, if, if it would be difficult to, to the Italians and they cook. You know, I mean it's less. The problems are getting there. When I go to Italy I check the, the

stores, the supermarkets, and see what's, what's, what's frozen and what, what is prepared food. There's there's not as much, thank God, but there are some of the, the baked goods which have the trans fats and all of that. I think the one thing that they're really fighting back and it was the dangers of it was the European Union where, where the products you know now, everything can travel and where Denmark was beginning to to to to produce parmigano. I mean the Italian says this is sacrilegious No no. No way. And so and so they really began to to to fight back and to put D.O. P D.O.C.G you're region a controllata really like you know champagne goes for champagne it's only in Champagne and so on. So I think that's going to be a saving, saving grace but there was, there was a period where you where you know you kind of felt that it's all going to be Europe was going to be all homogenized in a will but I don't think it will.

We can't take any more questions but I do have I can't I feel compelled to ask this the perfect pasta to salt or not to salt.To oil and do you put water on the pasta after you've poured it out in the colander. All right. Don't you all know? Salty is a question of person. I think you need to salt the water because once you have cooked the pasta to, to, to permeate the salt in the pasta it's very difficult so it'll always be a kind of, a little bit flat, but if you have restrictions, then that's when you know or, or if you're used to less, it's different thresholds that we'll have for sour, sweets, saltiness. So that's a personal matter. The water, when you, when you drain the pasta you always save a little bit of water so what I think you're alluding to is that I didn't save the water and I recommend that because when you're cooking and your mixing the pasta with the sauce, you know, I always recommend that you want to cook a little bit and then you finish cooking it in the sauce. And if, if, you, you know, you run out of sauce because maybe somebody is not at the table, maybe the pasta was too under cooked or whatever. That water saves you. You don't always look for butter all for

fats or for, for stock or whatever, you know. That water just can be used and you don't want to smother it with sauce either, you know so, so using the water, always save a little bit and use it in that fashion, absolutely great. Good all right. Yes, that was very good. So, what do you say thank.