thumbnail of Say Brother; Black Women and the ERA; 611
Hide -
If this transcript has significant errors that should be corrected, let us know, so we can add it to FIX IT+
The Equal Rights Amendment on both the federal and state level has sparked a great deal of controversy and debate all too often the debate has been hampered by lack of information or a basic misunderstanding of the amendment. The iori is a change in the position of women and to a lesser extent others of minority status. The federal Equal Rights Amendment states equality of rights under the law shall not be abridged by the United States or by any other state on account of sex. Since the 14th Amendment has been interpreted to outlaw discrimination against minorities. The federal iori refers only to sex discrimination. In contrast the Massachusetts iori provides equality to both women and minorities. Prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sex race color creed or national origin. Tonight say rather We'll examine the federal and state your gay as a particularly relates to minority women. We have with us griefer Hilman who is the administrative aide to the
Legislative Black Caucus. And Mr. Ted landmark who is the executive director of the Contractors Association of Boston. I would like to direct my first question to you Grace here and that is if the NRA does pass in Massachusetts on the November referendum what effect do you think that will have. Well there is some existing laws that do provide for. Equality with regard to sex and race creed. National origin but the Equal Rights Amendment will prove to strengthen some of the existing laws either under Family Law employment education but mostly with regard to jurisdiction that the state has. In other words the Equal Rights Amendment is not going to have an effect on private institutions including private educational institutions even though they do receive federal monies that will prove to strengthen something that will prove to serve. To.
Give some equality for women and minorities under family laws and education. OK. In terms of thinking of minorities one thing that comes to mind is that the question of minorities what we've been dealing with affirmative action for the last couple of years will that suddenly bring about some type of competition between white women and minority men because it seems that currently they've just been able to get their foot in the door and make some headway. And I'd like to direct that question to Ted. Well I think that there's very little question that in the past affirmative action has involved the creation of hiring goals and timetables and has involved establishing quotas for the employment of minorities on jobs which normally they wouldn't have been employed. Now it's been suggested by some people that if an equal rights amendment would be passed in Massachusetts the quotas would remain essentially
the same goals and timetables might remain essentially the same and that. Third world minority men would suddenly find themselves in competition for jobs with white women. It's been suggested partially because of what people see in state government where for example white women have been hired in more policymaking positions and minority men have and where the governor and other policy makers have been able to say that because they're hiring those white women who have tended to be by and large upper class and upper middle class women that they're acting affirmatively to bring into the state government people who traditionally would not have been there. So there's no question but that there is a possibility the competition between the groups can take place. And one of the reasons that we are particularly concerned to join with those persons who are now organizing on behalf of the IRA in this state is to be sure before the amendment is past the coalitions are formed which will act to prevent that kind of
competition from taking place and to assure that both minorities and women will benefit from equal treatment under the law. OK great. As. The great reads now if if it is passed will it benefit minority women significantly. I think that there is there is going to be a situation I don't know. That the benefit of the IRA is going to significantly affect any minority. Speaking of ethnic minority group. Because the emphasis has been on sex and that's shown by the federal e-brake even though the state would include provisions for equality for other minority groups. I don't know that the emphasis is going to fall there because it's basically the same situation as with the minority men with the minority women have a two fold kind of discrimination they faced. Number one is the discrimination on their race be
it black or spanish speaking. And the second is discrimination against sex so that they're entering this battle of kind of fighting. Two phases of it whereas white women are fighting the sex aspect of it. OK. When we think in terms of the effects for all women on the issues of family law property employment and criminal statutes let's just take a look at family law. How will the array affect family law in the areas of alimony child custody. Well one of the things that's important to bring out is that the area is not going to significantly change every aspect of say the family law for instance child custody will remain the same which basically is that. A child custody is granted to the spouse that is stopped by the court to be able to be the best provider so they're not talking that the woman has or the mother has the automatic rights to the child. But if in fact it can be proven that the father would be the best provider he would
get in child custody. If you're talking about when a woman enters marriage there seems to be a common law that says that the spouse or the person who has purchased the property has the has the right to it than the Equal Rights Amendment would prove to provide that the woman upon. Entering marriage has rights to property that she owns that she has purchased. And in the case of a divorce that the property would be divided such that the woman should not necessarily think that she going to walk out of the scaling off the property. And a man would not feel that he is going to lose everything but in fact it would be divided if they can't make a mutual agreement between the two parties. It would be divided the WHO has made the investment who has made the actual purchase. I think one of the things that's important to bring out is that some people have raised questions regarding why does Massachusetts need to pass an equal rights amendment to its state constitution. If in fact the federal government is addressing the same problem and
one of the clear things is that the federal government amendment has to be ratified by all states and that there's a process that goes through which means that it could possibly be 1981 before the Equal Rights Amendment could be implemented because of federal law. Whereas when this question comes on the November ballot. Massachusetts will be able to implement this law immediately in the state with regard to state government and what the state governors and the legislature is already beginning to address itself to review some of the existing laws in Massachusetts that could in fact be discriminatory should the right pass. Now I know on the federal level if the the RE if there is an amendment and it's inside it will not be instituted for two years. That doesn't hold true in Massachusetts will it go into effect immediately. Right. With the state law. The NRA would take effect immediately after the elections in November of this year. If the people vote that they do want an equal rights amendment to the state constitution. OK so
essentially what you're saying even in Massachusetts the NRA is a change in the status of women. And. Despite the fact that minorities may benefit from some of the things that are happening that women stand to benefit most. Oh sure. Oh no question. OK thank you. You know they asked me which is more difficult being black or being a woman. But if somebody is steadily pounding on your head it really makes no difference if you woman man male female black white. It still hurts. Flo Kennedy is a lawyer. A noted feminist. She's been extremely active in women's rights and women's issues. She's been founder of the National feminist party in New York. Flo as I said you're you have a record that precedes you. Let's talk about the iori amendment on a national perspective if the iori
Amendment is passed nationally how do you feel that all women stand to benefit from that. Well I think it will be a victory over a right wing racist sexism. And I feel that that right wing is what we really ought to be concerned about because you see the right wing. Church dominated pig ocracy which is really embraces most of what I call the government and business delinquents in much of the media is the real enemy are the real enemies. And I think that the Equal Rights Amendment is being covered over by media for the most part. You can compare the amount of coverage to say baseball or some jock activity with the coverage of the Equal Rights Amendment and you find that Jock ocracy gets five hours Saturday and Sunday you know watching the balls roll into the hole and get batted across the fence and chased after people falling on balls. And yet if you say let's do something on the order they say we did something on the Equal Rights Amendment so it will be a triumph over all those aspects of a pathological society that
don't want any changes that will affect the degree of racism and sexism in our country. So the Equal Rights Amendment is simply a symbolic victory it's like winning a hill in North Korea or Vietnam that has nothing on it particularly and has no mining potential but it is a victory in that it was their territory and we took it away. And I think that's the main thing. And it depends on political pressure as to whether there are any changes whether it relates to women black women Puerto Rican women they're all legal rights communities and whether they're women prostitutes Housewives Madonnas whores welfare mothers or whatever. They're constantly nigga arised by government business the media and the church. So naturally it's a little equal rights amendment is not going to change all that any more than the Civil Rights Act changed everything as far as racism is concerned. What do you think will change as you say you spoke about the factions of women who've been what you call quote nigger arised. How do you think that these types of
stigmas can be erased. Well I think that when you get a law in a country that purports to be about law and order and then there are no respondent changes by the pig ocracy or the bigger Krafts then of course people get angry and that's what happened in 1954 when we got a decision that said that schools should be integrated. And here we are twenty two years later and you have the red white and blue contingent incidentally led by white women and very little opposed by feminist groups with red white and blue contingent I might suggest is the red neck. White trash and blue collars who are objecting to the implementation of that Brown decision from 1954. But you will get backlash as I see it. And theoretically if the women lie down and take it as we are wont to do then I would suggest it could conceivably be worse. Certainly in 1954 you didn't have white trash marching in Boston to keep black kids from sitting in a poor white trash neighborhood school. So you see you cannot guarantee that a liberation struggle
will always make it better for the people that are Negro unless they get off their haunches and continue to fight for for some kind of fairness and equity. So what you're saying is despite all the yelling and ranting and raving about sisterhood sisterhood Sisterhood are you saying that women who are involved in the movement have to deal with feelings that they have of racism and I'm referring right now to White women. Well yes. I feel that it's true that there is a quantum of racism in the feminist community in that it's a sort of a do nothing attitude. And I actually I think most of the ranting and raving is on the part of those movements that are not feminists such as the stoppie or a movement that rants and raves and has all the time on television that they can give people like Phyllis Schlafly because every time you talk about an issue of feminism you somehow have to have someone that saying women are not human beings or of wanting to be a human being is not ladylike. So I suggest that although there is racism in the feminist community it's obviously at a much lower level than it is in either the
anti-abortionist community where you've got even black women like Dr. Jefferson who are are putting all kinds of obstacles in the ability to terminate a pregnancy which is the largest reason for dropouts in among high school black youngsters. So it's not by any means a simple issue. I'd like to come back to that point now. I had I had the opportunity to go to the now convention in Philadelphia last October and one of the things that I saw happening there was the emergence of what is now called the majority caucus who won two thirds of the vote at the at the convention. And since that time there's been a split in the National Organization of Women. How do you think that split will affect the majority of the membership who are interested primarily in issues of child care equal access to credit and improved income. Well I think there was a power struggle over nothing it's certainly true that you do have a sort of right wing
group within the feminist community as you do in any struggle group. It's what I call horizontal hostility in people like Betty Friedan can lead up those places where that whether in Mexico City or Philadelphia and they are more or less anti-ice Third World women although they purport not to be. However you didn't have a chance to go to any South Boston meetings of women against the black children over there. And that's where you'll find the real enemies as far as women are concerned in my opinion. So that what I would have to say would relate to the racist women who are committed to fight all all women who certainly would be very comfortable with the stop or a stop abortion and stop black kids coming to school. So that as far as I'm concerned you might be able to take teach the feminists to cut down on their racism but when you have people that are following the Pampers Wallaces and the wrinkles Ragan's and the Louise day Hicks is of this world and the and the Irian the idiot McCabe then you have a different kind of enemy and I personally am not as concerned about horizontals hostility
within the communities as bitter bitter bitter bitter bitter bitter bitter. Women and prostitutes and the feminists as I am to worry about the banks the insurance companies the trade associations the major unions that are really funding the fight against the Equal Rights Amendment. So are you suggesting that despite the fact that people that women have a variety of political economic and social priorities that they should kind of step out of those priorities for a minute and look at where the real oppression is coming from it seems to me that you're saying that people women are recognising that regardless of what their status. Yes I think so but I even like better what Ted landmark was saying about the coalition among the nager rights groups in New York for example where incidentally the Equal Rights Amendment failed at the state level both New York and New Jersey because you see the right wing have it together. You see they're running for example and Ellen McCormick on the anti abortion ticket but you see we don't have it together. And I in New York we have the Coalition Against Racism and sexism and it sort of sounds like it is Landmark's idea is the same because
we have fight back the construction. Black people the lesbian feminist liberation the coyote groups the prostitutes organization the all the gay community men and women all fighting to pass the Equal Rights Amendment. And I think that coalition of people ready to take anti-establishment Tarion positions is stronger than are just going off in different directions. All too weak to do anything except hate each other and try to trip each other up. OK. Well taking into consideration priorities and objectives what what can you say realistically will happen the chances are of getting these kind of nigga arised or oppressed groups together. I think it depends a lot on whether feminists are prepared to take a stand against the right wing women especially right wing white women because it's certainly clear that they are not going to be in coalition with the feminists to pass the Equal Rights Amendment. So I think it's important for black women who don't fight actively in racism against racism as most Boston women don't seem to have been fighting. I haven't heard it any.
Then I would suggest that yes the black women as well as the non-white women from the Native American communities from the Spanish speaking communities should all a lie to pass the Equal Rights Amendment unless they are working against racism I just think it's important to wind up by saying that I think racism is sexism as cancer is too terrible to think and neither one is to be taken lightly. But obviously cancer kills you. Well can I ask just one last question in terms of coalitions forming Did you see this type of thing happening at the International Women's Center in Mexico City. Well yes it happened but also there was a certain amount of cat fighting. But the media played up the cat fighting of course and ignored all the positive things many positive things did take place and coalitions were formed. Thank you we'll be back to discuss that later in the show. The women's libbers want to get out their kitchens. Well you know what I want to get out their kitchens to. The Massachusetts equal rights amendment will be appearing on the November referendum.
Here to discuss with us the implications for minority women and their reactions to that amendment are Kate Gibbs Marcy Hubbard and Thelma Watson. I'd like to throw out a question and I think anyone can react to this and that is what do you see. That the amendment will do for minority women or how will it affect you as a minority woman. I think that minority women probably stand to benefit more than anyone else in some sense from the passage of the state equal rights amendment but that the concern really is whether or not it will benefit the minority community of the third world community as a whole. And that while the minority community probably has no choice but to support the right there's some real concern about what kind of a situation is going to be set up assuming that the amendment is ratified
in terms of competition among groups who ordinarily should have shared interests around things like jobs and other kinds of things to which we don't presently have access and that the. Minority women are in a situation where the law now says that women are also to be given equal treatment under the law will suddenly be a commodity in the job market in the sense that they will be a double minority and that we have to be very careful in our support of the amendment. To make it clear that after the amendment is passed that we talk about a situation in which there are two jobs available for two disenfranchised groups which are third world people and white women rather than a situation in which those two groups compete for one for one job and that we essentially now begin to impact on the dialogue on Eger rights of women in such a way that it is viewed as a movement of people who do not have power of which there are several groups who probably make up the
majority both in the state and in the country because who has the power now are white males and large corporations and that we have to construct a situation in which the rest of us who are the majority transfer that power to ourselves that the Equal Rights Amendment represents a vehicle to do that. OK when we think about input. What. Type of input have minority women had to this point. You know what usually happens it seems that. Women. And I'm talking about white women at this point. Have aligned themselves with minorities in the sense that there's a concern that we're fighting in terms of equality for the same types of situations. And I don't know the extent that minority women have had input in and out of the general feelings is that minority women should the Massachusetts VRA pass don't really feel with see that they'll derive any benefits. I think that that's a legitimate concern. I also think that if we look at the
last year. And the people who have been spearheading the way that there is reason to believe that unless they take a 90 degree turn right now. To include. Minority women on every committee they have at every level of functioning that they do that there is no reason to believe that they're going to include us at the next step which is implementation of the civil rights that will include sex. One has to look right now at what is happening at the state level in politics. One has to look at the governor pressingly is substituting with Grady is white women. For what otherwise he might be. He might be moved to have black women or black males in top policymaking state jobs. We're not seeing that. In fact we're seeing that we're losing ground at that level. And I'm not hearing any one
least of all white women coming out and saying wait a minute. The balance is is falling. There's no longer a balance here in terms of racial. Minorities in white female minorities and that's that I think is a legitimate concern. Are you saying that then. Do I hear you saying that in terms of any linkage with racial minorities for women white women it's a convenient one. I don't think that I understood your quote in terms of the question of oppression. You know you have to say I'm concerned because I would go so far as to say that. The press array. Of women who are pushing it the coalition is more representative of white middle class and upper middle class well educated women as opposed even to the low income white woman. So that you don't find. Either racial minority women in there
in significant numbers nor quite. Low income women. So what you're left with is a very well-educated upper middle income women and they might want a job today and they might go home or to Europe for a year next year. So you don't you don't. They have nothing to lose. We have everything to lose. So what you're saying is you have more you feel that thing Scuse me as a minority women and minority women generally and minorities have more at stake in supporting an amendment like this. I think so. I think it's also interesting to note that. Up until the last maybe two weeks or so the amendment has been publicized very highly SSX think as opposed to. Making the public aware that it is also responding to a need for anti-discrimination laws against race creed color national origin and has been done to this point. The other thing is that. I
think there have been some public opinion that if the race part of the amendment is publicized that it will be equated with busing. And then it is doomed to fail. If we are talking about. An amendment that will aid in. Discrimination against. Blacks Spanish speaking. Native Americans and Orientals. We're also talking about including them into the movement. And that hasn't been done. How do you think that can be done. I think the public needs to know that that the iori the stadia are Amendment does talk about those groups and that there is some should be some response from the community and how they feel about it see the dialogue needs to change that. The problem is that the dialogue around the state Ira is that it's a sex it's an amendment to the Constitution that would prohibit discrimination against sex. Very few people know that it also is designed to prohibit discrimination against race. What
that means to me is that the people who are involved in the movement to ratify the IRA are using it as an organizing to organize white women and that when the amendment passes the white women will be organized and they will be moving against potentially moving against the third world community in such a way to take whatever jobs and other things that we've been able to get from the people that oppress us and that that the way in which the. The the the movement potentially could be a tool for organizing all kinds of people who are not who do not have power who in my theories constitute the majority of the people in this state and yet it's not being used as that kind of a tool and that that our view is that we that we have to we have to make sure that that dialogue gets raised. OK. Are you suggesting that that dialogue that on the on the part of white women that this is a conscious thing on their part. Oh no I think that it's. They don't know anything except
to representing their own interests. I mean it's the it's the question that racism is the first operative in our society. And if we're talking about white women then we're talking about people who are also racist by definition they can't help it. They never thought of including Third World people in the movement either men or women that are. Therefore they going to represent their own interests as they have done they will continue to do that as they have done up to now and that we have an obligation to make sure that that does not happen. So agree or disagree. What you're saying is whatever should happen ultimately with the amendment that minorities. Need to get a toehold. Into what's happening they need to dialogue they need to meet make their feelings and that is a great organizing tool for all kinds of groups of all grew all kinds of people to to organize around a transfer of power. OK. Has there been some type of legitimacy in excluding women of
color. Legitimacy Yeah. I mean in terms of when we get down to priorities and objectives I think you may have touched on that just a bit in terms of maybe as a white middle class woman as I see it pointed out my goals and my priorities may be just a little bit different than let's say a minority woman. And. Conceivably. My objective or my procedure for attaining those might be a little different. Well that let's hope not. I mean let's hope that all of our goals are the same and that is equality of of human rights so that if indeed there are different goals and objective that underscores the concern that we have about what the Army will ultimately accomplish. Thank you.
Some soft brown words for you. Feel them sweet patchouli. Can find no tune no honeysuckle sigh of the wind soft or gentle no ocean roar in the cup of my hands no smoke signal of the eyes or breath sucked through silky smiles. Sly sad or shy enough to speak my love for you. Better. Nuff said unsaid and understood. Another poem a love poem. Share this with me. Erotica one or treaty's on the black lagoon before the creatures came. Love and the bath is seldom premeditated but creative in its utter urgency. The clean and the sacred. Soap and water make bathroom sex the most revered of all primal pleasure rituals soundscapes and picture frames slide down walls and mirrors fogged with the
mist of dawn obscure or reflection. The map becomes a bed of moss and we embrace Lim's snaked around the glistening lym my tongue a live bird of paradise winging through your tropical rain forest. Somewhere between my lips you are lost in the bright green foliage of your fantasy. Nothing exist beyond the flutter of kisses and the splash of sweet rain. On our faces. Your hands are the first sacred verses ever chanted and I am wrapped in the poetry of your touch. An appetite for pomegranates are you satisfied with mine which is tender fragrant bursting sticky sweet to the taste the gentle journey a twisted trail of Arrowhead. A slow motion stalk from coils of jungle vines. The search for the Golden City hidden at the mouth of a cave. Around and around. Eyes roll and
sink in the whirlpool at the top of your head and finally you are suffering through the quicksand of my thighs. I can no longer claim my soul I am possessed. I speak in tongues and dance forgotten dances with familiar gods. I am willing to die here and now on the altar of your love flames lick each vertebrae. I am consumed in a blazing sun of glory. I exist without form or consequence. My only memory is your voice echoing a name that once was mine. We are one perfect moment a single note resounding in the void. I never want to speak or move again. Sometime after the Great to luge was running in the tub and the wind was really just a fan I sensed my breath and your heart pounding against my chest. The smell of burning coffee blends with milk and
honey. Then that distant banging sound like drums rolling off the hills and the familiar little voice squeezed insistently through a key hole. Mommy what you don't want and they open the door. I got a peeping. Freddy Garcia is a member of the Spanish speaking community and she has been very active and involved in the issues that affect the community and very concerned about those issues as they affect women. The Spanish community freedom. How would you. Just share with us what some of the basic concerns are of Hispanic women in regards to the Equal Rights Amendment and women's liberation.
I'm I'm not sure I'm going to try to speak primarily of the Hispanic women in Boston rather than because I think that represents a different kind of problem in say New York where you have a couple of generations I mean Boston. Our Hispanic community is almost really one generational and not even that. I mean we're the major group has only been here about five years or so. You're talking about women who have. Been born and raised on the island. On the islands. If we're talking about the broader community and who come here and are really dealing with. The crisis of two cultures aren't. So I'm not quite sure that as a group. That they are very aware or very concerned. About an issue like the fact that there's going to be a referendum and then there is an Equal Rights Amendment a pending right now. What does concern me and I think what I want to really talk about is that I think as a group. That.
They've been programmed. In a particular way and that that program. The message has been very very clear and made me a little bit more emphatic. Than say for women who have grown up in this country and have been exposed to a different reality. I think that the program that that we are raised with as women which is. Very very definitely. It's more than just second class citizenship as women. I mean the expectations. Are really not working and not making any decisions for yourself of the ideal situation of going from your father making the decision to your husband making the decision and your son's making the decisions for you. And then the reality of what life is really about which is very I mean the gap there is is enormous. So what you're saying in terms of what the cultural experience is that a woman may conceivably grow from childhood into womanhood
not really thinking about having to deal with what I define This is three Ds death desertion a divorce said well OK. That's the yeah that's the message. And of course the reality is is very different. But still all the preparedness and everything is geared toward that. And. My feeling is that. We need every single thing possible to try to overcome that and if that happens to be to have an X in existence and on the law book an amendment that says. And emphasizes the fact that women have rights then I think it's important. Even if it's a rule most talking almost about a symbolic. Thing. And that it might be years before we as as a group really get involved and will raise issues that that will really have an effect. On us. And I think that's that's the point from where I'm coming at out. I'm just overwhelmed by. By this this
duality. Of the two cultures and the fact of women having to be raised here. And still sort of acting as if it is possible to you know to go through life and not have to make decisions that is sort of what you're saying is in terms of making moves that save from a particular island or a particular Hispanic country. And having to deal with what culturally you were exposed to there and then trying to integrate yourself into the American culture that there are still adjustments that women have to make from what they've known traditionally as opposed to what they find here. Yeah. And also that I think it is still possible. Our say in Puerto Rico or the Dominican Republic that you know the male members of your family are going to assume some roles. I think once you're in this country that that is not. That is not a possibility at all operate on that please. Well I mean that the you know the extended family has is it begins to
deteriorate in this country as a result of distances of everything. I mean just the idea that that's part of the American culture. And and so that if you do find yourself living in this country you sooner or later will find yourself having to stand on your own two feet. And make decisions for yourself. And and so that it's important that that you know we we as a group begin to face that. And be helped to face that. With. As many symbols even if they're only symbols as possible. I mean and that's the point that I. Because I'm not I'm not kidding myself that the RIAA is going to make a difference. I mean we're we are on the economic ladder. I mean with you know the absolute bottom we're not talking about competing probably even for secretarial jobs. You know if you're talking about us as a group here in Boston. So I mean that you know and I think that
that's important to say that because that that that isn't I have no illusions about that. But I do think that. Not having that law on the books is important to try to get our heads. Moving in another direction important. Scuse me important in that it will establish the fact that Hispanic speaking women and probably make them aware of the fact that as women they do have rights. But right now they just seem to be other priorities and objectives that women feel. Hispanic women feel that they must deal with in terms of their politics their economy and their social situation. And Wolf earlier in the program I think it was mentioned again about the fact that 20 years ago the law the desegregation. And where are we. Twenty two years later and again I don't think
that people really thought things were going to change overnight. But we're not going to go back to what it was before 54. And for the same reason I think that even if you know it's not going to affect you immediately and that there are other battles and that the races battle is much more important and it still has to be fought. I still think that that has to be on the books. Thank you. I've been living in this country a long time. Never seen anything separate and equal. In
our. Own. On.
Came to the topic of equal rights and women's liberation does evoke quite a bit of controversy if the Equal Rights Amendment is passed. Can you tell me what benefits do you think minority women can derive from that. I think I'd like to answer that question in terms of what benefits are going to derive to those people who are supposed to get benefits from it. And I think that it's from my view anyway important for people who understand what the right is and what it is not my own judgment is that the way in Massachusetts is primarily an organizing tool and that for our purposes we have to be worried about who's getting organized around that. The passage of that amendment so that whoever gets organized will impact on what happens after it's passed so that I think that less the question of what for example benefits will accrue to minority women is what kind of negative benefits might accrue to the community in general or what kind of benefits will accrue to home. So that essentially the race and organizing to
and that after it's passed assuming that it is then people will move to do a number of things. And that the concern is that we be organized to move to do our thing. The second thing I think that's that's important is that just as the Brown versus Board of Education decision it took 22 years to only begin to implement that decision. Likewise if the phrase passed I think that we still have a situation where we have a lot of institutional racism and sexism that the passage of that amendment is not going to alter. And so that it's it's critical that we begin to address ourselves to the larger question of what are we going to do here. They are not about dealing with the transfer of power. The coalition of the oppressed people and that sort of an issue. Now I heard you raise one thing that Flo touched on earlier and that was a question of coalition and what I'd like to ask you Flo is we didn't have an
opportunity to get into it in depth what kinds of things can be done in terms of coalitions it's best to organize around issues and if that's the case what types of issues can groups organize around. Well I think organization is terribly important but I also think technique is important. I think it's important to put the pressure in the testicular area in those areas where pressure will have the greatest impact and meaning. And I think organizations just to just march in the street or just to enter the suites is never going to be enough. I think also that the feminist movement in dealing with the E.R. the Equal Rights Amendment made some tactical blunders. I think they made tactical blunders in recruiting minority women. I think they tried to recruit minority women by teaching them that black and non-white men were sexist or macho or whatever. But I think it's important for white feminists to recruit non-white women by opposing the racism of their white quote unquote sisters. And that's a difficult thing and I think when they recognize
that black people don't have white children in white people don't have black children and Chicanos don't have black children unless they intermarry they will begin to understand that we required them to separate themselves from and oppose the racism in white women as much as they do the racism and white men. I think it's necessary to recognize that they've tried. The feminists have tried very hard to recruit non-white women and they're very sensitive to that. But the lack of opposition to the racism of the women's community and the focus on the sexism of the male communities of non-white groups has caused a kind of schism. I think it's also important to understand the shortage of non-white men be it Native Americans black people Spanish speaking people is such that black women are not so anxious to deal with feminism with white women because the shortage of black men is even shortened by the fact that many feminists being angry at the White Men want to go out with the black man and in a way it shows their lack of racism. But in another way it reduces
the number of black men around. So it is certainly not a simple issue. I like the national black feminist organization because that is a way for the black women to organize around feminism without necessarily having to deal with white feminists. But I do feel that the tactical errors made by feminists will be corrected. And I think they will understand that the only way they can pass the Equal Rights Amendment is to relate to other oppressed groups. And that means they've got to take a strong stand on racism not just the white men and the white male dominated institutions but also of white women. OK. The idea of coalition and racism keeps evolving in the conversation. And if we're thinking about realistically about coalition it seems to me that number one the issue of racism has to be addressed. I don't I don't think that we can avoid that but still you have among minority women there is a feeling that. If the question of feminism addressed
is primarily done on the basis of middle class women and minority women are interested. They're going if they're going to make inroads there are some things that they have to do but somehow they feel becoming involved their issues and their priorities will be usurped. So it doesn't really make that much difference if we get involved enough. No absolutely not. It does make a difference. It does. And I think that to categorize it as racism is correct in one way and yet it's erroneous. It's both. It's it's it's a class struggle and it's also because it is a class. It has to be racial also here. Consequently what we're seeing and what we're objecting to is the fact that there seems to be for a variety of reasons in this particular state of Massachusetts an effort by a given class of people to say to racial minorities to say to lower
class white women in. Others that are in between those categories to say let me temporarily put your rights right here. Well I fight for mine. And then of course I'll come back and make sure that you didn't get stepped on but there is no assurance because if they're willing to put ours aside temporarily they can do away with them totally. And so what we're saying is it's not that we're not interested. It's not that we don't trust you. That if we get there to the same goal together. We have that much more power that much more say and that is what we're seeing we're seeing what I consider to be a barrier or a class barrier that doesn't exactly say you cannot come in but by its nature does not pull you win. And that I think yes I think we have to be part of it at every level and in everyone who sees themselves as a human is someone whose concern has got to
stop and say those women in the black community the Chinese community the Spanish speaking community. Are right. You've got you've got to get together in March or. Are they going to become victims of that battle as well. So what you're saying in terms of minority women that if inroads are to be made they've got to they've got to become involved they've got to voice their concerns and they've got to become involved in the power making process. It's a lovely thing to the dues that daddies pay when it was finally finished. I showed the joy of cooking high out of reach and began dining alone with an on precedented extravagance. I could hardly afford. I threw away his records and watch my shows without compromise. I lost contact with his mother and felt relieved of that obligation.
I had my son to myself and sent him to daycare so I could do my thing. I stopped calling girlfriends who sang I told you so I told you so. From the pedestals of their tentative marriages I went to the movies and out in the afternoon but never stay to see the pictures and I added gin to my shopping list and sat around a smoky table with crazy ladies plotting treason in the kitchen. We never traded recipes anymore. We swapped our sex lives. I was a danger to strangers and a clean house with local ladies who claim they were in love. I posed new york city slick and never let on. I used to wear an apron and bake banana bread. A few months ago I met him at Park Street and route to Harlem. He was wearing the same old army khakis. I'd never have to are again perpetually prepared for revolution. Just for old time's sake. I scribbled the new
address prefacing my maiden name with muse. Do you think he asked. I can stop by some time to see my son. Of course I'll be very busy for the next two weeks. Let me write you in my book for June to see your son of course. That afternoon I thought about changing the sheets just for old time's sake but decided if those sheets are good enough to me for me they are certainly good enough for him. Absolved my sins with bubbles and brandy and jumped when the doorbell rang. I checked my hair before I swung the door open with an attitude in the hands on my hips. Now I had him in my house drinking my wine listening to my music and if you don't dig it take your black ass elsewhere. I.
Want to help make this content more accessible? Correct our machine-generated transcript.
Say Brother
Black Women and the ERA
Episode Number
Contributing Organization
WGBH (Boston, Massachusetts)
If you have more information about this item than what is given here, we want to know! Contact us, indicating the AAPB ID (cpb-aacip/15-9nc5sc3d).
Program focuses on the proposed Equal Rights Amendment in the state of Massachusetts that will make discrimination regardless of sex, race, creed or religion, illegal. Host Leah Fletcher focuses on the amendment as it relates to minority women via five interview sessions: the first with Gracia Hillman (administrative aide to the legislature's Black caucus) and Ted Landsmark (Executive Director of the Contractor's Association of Boston); the second with Flo Kennedy (lawyer, feminist, and founder of the National Feminist Party in New York); the third with activists Kay Gibbs, Marcella Hubbard, and Thelma Watson; the fourth with Frieda Garcia (activist in the Spanish-speaking community in Boston); and the fifth with select individuals from previous segments (Gibbs, Kennedy, Watson, and Hubbard). All discuss whether the combined effects of affirmative action and the amendment bring about a competition between minority women and white men, how the ERA will benefit minority women, how the ERA will affect family law (alimony, child custody, etc.), racism in the feminist movement, the need for a meaningful examination of oppression, priorities, and objectives in the feminist community, the input minority women have had in the feminist movement and in legislation, and the impact of the amendment, should it pass, on Hispanic women. Program includes the "Community Calendar."
Public Affairs
Discrimination; African Americans Massachusetts; African Americans Legal status, laws, etc.; Affirmative action programs; CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS
Rights Note:It is the responsibility of a production to investigate and re-clear all rights before re-use in any project.,Rights Type:All,Rights Credit:WGBH Educational Foundation,Rights Holder:WGBH Educational Foundation
Rights Note:Media not to be released to Open Vault.,Rights Type:Web,Rights Credit:,Rights Holder:
Media type
Moving Image
Embed Code
Copy and paste this HTML to include AAPB content on your blog or webpage.
Publisher: WGBH Educational Foundation
AAPB Contributor Holdings
Identifier: a62f3f93df76d5f705920f8e3c82ecbbe0131d67 (ArtesiaDAM UOI_ID)
Format: video/quicktime
Color: Color
Duration: 01:00:02;08
If you have a copy of this asset and would like us to add it to our catalog, please contact us.
Chicago: “Say Brother; Black Women and the ERA; 611,” 1976-04-11, WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed November 15, 2019,
MLA: “Say Brother; Black Women and the ERA; 611.” 1976-04-11. WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. November 15, 2019. <>.
APA: Say Brother; Black Women and the ERA; 611. Boston, MA: WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from