Ten O'Clock News; Interview with Kathleen Sullivan [Tape 3 of 3]

Ain't. Well I don't know jack. If you want to get that tired wasn't the target wasn't changing wrote a letter to me. It's interesting that like to say it didn't change history right. Now what's the first part of the question.

OK we'll take this one step at a time Plaistow. If the title had been changed from the little school committee and certainly the education was to be answered by going to what do you think that you I mean you were elected because you were one of the main members who was interested in education but that might have changed. Would you as well. I think. I think that I could have been re-elected to the committee. I I did well the first time that I ran for office. The question is whether or not I would have had whether or not there would be potential for really improving the school system. Now my question is of you do you think that the school system has improved. Do you think that vocational education special education

bilingual education or reading regardless of what one set of statistics say do you think that the quality of education in this city has improved. My own feeling is that the school system is paralyzed that you have parents who are genuinely involved and concerned about what's happening to their children. But you also have an economic picture in which the school system is strangled by the economics that are hitting every city in the country and have been complicated by the desegregation costs. So I. You know I wish that I could say that because of desegregation I am able to have more impact on what happens in this school department. But I really do not feel that that is true. I do not feel that the general quality and I would like to be saying that I think that the general quality of education in the city has improved but I don't and I think

I think that. You know that's what the problem is so that maybe I've I've been you know depending on on how people look at it and just because somebody wins Well I don't want to election doesn't mean that I'll be reelected the next time out. The the the fact is what am I able to do now in this school department to improve things for the children that I ran for in the beginning. And I don't think that I'm able to do very much. And that's what's the most frustrating part of this thing because in terms of incorporating a more beneficial beneficial education for all the children in the city I see myself as being as being tied up in knots and sitting in sitting in a corner. What did you just say.

While at this point you know it's not what you say he said. I don't think so because I think that if you look at the results of the primary election in September you can see that people I think that people in the city of Boston are sick of the situation. They're sick of the hatred this sick of the anger. They just you know you just I began to feel it last spring that people in the city just. It had been anger you can only be angry and lashing out and attending rallies and and everything else that a large number of people in this city were doing for the last three years only so long and then you

get tired you have to go back to living you have to go back to to spending Sundays watching a great Patriots football game instead of going on a on a car rally the. I think that this is a a tide in the city which is saying that some politicians fed us a lot of baloney and the judge means what he's saying and is going to push it through even if it means that I have to be working a second shift or a second job and I want to put my child into parochial school. No I don't think I think that the people in this city right now would welcome my saying that the school system had improved. Even though we have a crazy judge on the scene I think that the people in the city would like it. But I can't say it because when I go into the schools that's not the kind of feeling that I

get except for in some schools such as the Roxbury High School which I already mentioned. The Loewenberg the curly you know the stuff that I didn't know was good you say it. Well at least one thing happened. The black kids have a chance of education you know in the worst city you know what they have materials they don't have the worst teachers they don't have the responsibles Doesn't that count urgent constituency still. Obviously that obviously that has to count although in terms of my constituency but you never mention that

because it's politically damaging. Well it I you know I this year I have not been visiting the schools as much as I did last year primarily because this budget. The mess has been preoccupying my time to a rather bizarre degree. We should have just ordered the superintendent to do it and if she did it fine if she didn't do it fire last March but we were not able to do that. At any rate when I was visiting the schools last fall and last winter I went to schools and I saw students that I had worked with three or four years before in Dorchester who had been to three schools in the three years that I had been out of the picture. I don't think that that

improved their education. And I think that they were going into to another new school for the third year. Perhaps this year you're talking about a different kind of situation when things have finally stabilized to a certain degree. So I think this year you can start talking about a more beneficial experience for black children in the city. I don't think that it's particularly beneficial for any human being to go into an environment where where you have people standing around outside of the school's school whether whether regardless of what part of the city it's in who don't want you to be around I don't think that that's particularly help healthy for people. But you know that's that's just my opinion Ah but there are some blacks who feel differently and feel that as long as their children are getting

something better what than what they were getting before that that's that's what it's all about. My hope would be that the situation would improve for everyone and I think that in the city of Boston we're talking about a hundred and seventeen thousand school age children and we're talking about an average daily attendance in the public schools of 51000 last year. So that's you know that's the other piece of my concern. And if I thought that desegregation was beneficial for the black children that I taught when I was in Dorchester I would say so but I don't I think it's been disruptive for them. I know it has because I know those children they've gone from school to school to school. Now if you're talking about what can happen in another city with desegregation if you're talking about a judge who will give a community time or else demand that a plan be submitted and if a school committee wants to

behave politically the way this one did put that plane into operation or put a Master's plan into operation and give people some time and families some time to prepare their children and teachers some time to prepare themselves for four for the following year. And don't be hitting people with three different assignments in three different years and then you can say then you can question me about whether or not this thing is beneficial for black and white children. You know occasionally I wear them myself. Right. OK I'm just in my. Mind this is today's Me I think you should look at the First Amendment saw the letter on the talk refers to an order from the court saying

saying that you were ordered at your next meeting this Friday to appoint journalling cause birth as transitional Director of Program Development at South Austin High I grew paid salary of twenty seven thousand six hundred sixteen dollars. Unfortunately that's a position that is not in effect in any other school in the city. But that's one of the problems. Just Garrett he has also ordered the elimination of one assistant head master's position there to make room for this position of like head masters get a salary group system. It's just. See this is the problem we have innovative programs to remedy the educational void in attendant marked decline in attendance at South Boston High School but at the same time he is telling us not to send any more students there.

What do you do. I'm. OK what else. The rest are reports required. By the court copy for being sent to you. How many students have been you say this is this other thing he's involved himself in the transfers and you know how many transfers have been approved this year. A hundred and sixty three. That's not too many transfers Pamela. I do have one thousand seven hundred eighty two requests received. Did I mention that the only thing that will be in this is exactly what you say it's going to be but I want it and when the only guesses there'll be no other

voice in this than your voice mail me. Yes I didn't realize that you mean your questions. You did say that you did say that in your life thing. So what we'll do is just back the whole thing up right. Oh visuals what I say of the desegregation. That's why you want cameras just like hard. Right. You're exactly together but when it comes down to it yours or ours. And I mean you know it's interesting with the two women. There's exactly the roles of the whole city's going through that. The trick is to show that. And I want to show that without involving a third party having me live there for a while because in the end you go back to your heritage you go back to your routine you go back to where you stand. Focus on the James Joyce stuff when they have your lessons etc..

Well that's my heritage. Yeah that's true. Those plans are in the works right. But at the same time my heritage educationally is working with black kids and that's the thing. I mean that's what that's what breaks down the barriers that gives you an M.E.. Yeah I mean if you had never worked with black kids if you you know if you had any you know strident racial prejudice human male you would never have any right would trust each other she wouldn't be do this but you know as much prejudices you have inherited as a struggle you know. Right. You have friends of the black that's no problem. Millie has friends that are white the whole thing in doing this was to find two people who could say that they were friends of another race. And I mean that they weren't just say that you know.

They have their office you know and the closer and more you see the problem in the middle.