North Carolina People; Howard Lee, Chairman, State Board of Education

And eating friends. You know I've been reading a lot of stories in the papers recently about the quality of our schools. We thought we'd get you the opportunity to meet and talk with a man who guides the destiny of the schools now cowardly the chairman of the State Board of Education. You've all known him a long time senator and public service and talk with him in just a few seconds. Funding for North Carolina people is made possible in part by teachers. Mark called me a wealth management and by contributions from U.N. TV viewers like you. Well friend it's good to see you again and I know you've been in around education all your

life but are you learning a lot these days. Well I feel so much like I have gone back to graduate school there. I thought I knew a lot when I came to this position and I've been very fortunate as you know to have been involved in education since the mid 60s. Yes when I was doing research to do. And of course in the legislature carrying a lot of the legislation. But I found coming to this position that I still have a great deal of Aaron and I'm just so excited about the possibilities of doing that. Are you going to say there's nothing more stimulating than working with children is it. Absolutely and of course to be able to work with the professionals we have in North Carolina we're so fortunate as I travel around the state and work with superintendent to have a quality of leadership we have in so many of our early A's and then to see these exciting little children who had just absolutely approaching this opportunity with great zeal and know that we hold their destiny in future and you know and certainly it's stimulating for me to work as hard as I can to help ensure the quality of educational experience you get embarrassed Lackaday when one of those little kids looked at that and shows you a

computer model. Oh absolutely. I've learned not to try and test my computer technology skills against those little ones because they'll embarrass you every time. We all read about No Child Left Behind. This national or federal policy. Where is North Carolina with this and what's going on. Well you know that's a fascinating piece of legislation. Certainly no one can argue with the basic concept because none of us believe in a child behind. We in North Carolina hi are very fortunate that we've been out in front in many ways of achieving some of the concepts that are embodied in that in that piece of legislation. Governor Hunt's leadership and now Governor easily ABC program has been a really early raving success in many ways and we watched our school systems achieve and grow and when we have the report in a few weeks from now I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised that the growth that has

occurred in our school systems and of course then we've watched the test scores in many areas improve when No Child Left Behind which we refer to as a white P average yearly yearly progress and reveal that information. It really surprised some people. I was not surprised because what that forced us to do was to take a look at subgroups. And if there's a subgroup of students in any school for students in Moore and one student in that subgroup does not succeed in passing one test and they could miss it by one score and we can we take a look at the schools we see that it's very close. We are not that bad off in North Carolina in terms of where our public schools are standing and where they are performing. And of course my challenge to the professionals and to all of us is that we use this is a baseline and we know where we are now in all of these categories and we can work work to build up there and in spite of it. North Carolina did

not turn out to fare any worse than any other state and there are some states that have been ranked number one and number two and number three whose a y p every yearly progress schools were not as good as North Carolina so I think we're in a good position to continue our growth and to continue our success and continue to build strong school systems throughout our state. Did those recent test scores in some areas confirm the notion that there is substantial quality in what we have in the schools people get so many negative stories but as I go around I find that to be true. I hope you do. Oh absolutely. When you look at the national set Sussman which we call nape in our fourth and eighth grade reading scores we were scored in the top 10 in the top five. We are certainly expecting to do fare well in other categories as well. The S.A.T.

and the. Other areas we will not look worse than most other states even in our high schools where we had probably the largest area of concern in terms of progress and in terms of scoring. Then we look at a state like Florida where they just had a huge drop in terms of ha school performance. So the test school was holding up real well and I think over the next few years people will begin to see that our public schools are doing a really good job. And I think people don't give them as much credit sometimes as they deserve you know to confirm your point I was talking with Chancellor measure yesterday. And I'd just casually ask you what was the test score of North Carolinians in this recent admissions process was over twelve hundred. Absolutely. And you had the same thing it in 68 or in the other public schools and you see this dramatic change so

it it's there you are right there is substantial quality there well one of the one of the things that I know where you were is you is what are we going to do about this teacher shortage problem in our state. We've made some strides. Good strides. But the Teaching Fellows program far too many of those young people drop out after they have had the experience but now do you see movement adequate and nature to make teaching a real profession again in a state. Well there are several things that it seems to me we have to have to do and when I came to this position as chair of the state board I made it clear that one of my basic commitments is to get highly qualified teachers in the classroom and keep those teachers in the classroom we will not lower our standards just to put warm bodies in the classroom. We in North Carolina have not taken advantage of some of the states which

overproduced teachers and we have now have a comedian in place headed up by two very fine professionals who are looking at how we can work out reciprocity agreements between us and some of these states that produce a lot of teachers and we get those teachers in. Community colleges can play a role along with our university system in training teachers to come in to the classroom. The lateral route and that will be a committee chairs committee appointed very soon to work on that. The state board will approve. But our big challenge along with producing We have to have supply because retirement is obviously going to be a big factor we have to contend with. But we've got to find ways to get young teachers in the classroom and retain those teachers in the classroom. I was meeting just recently with President Molly broad and President Lancaster of the community college and President hope Williams of the private independent colleges and universities and we've been talking about how we can work jointly to indeed

make that happen. We we're finding that that there are a good supply out there we just have to connect with that supply. We're doing a good better job I'm a sorry situation but the conditions surrounding teaching we've got it. It's like being a lawyer or being a doctor in a certain way if you're going to get bright young people they got to know they have a professional career where they have to know they have a professional career and they have to feel that at least they want to have a decent income that they can feed the family particularly for me and whom we need to get more of in this in this profession I'm sure you go around and making a lot of and make a lot of speeches to undergraduate student and to high school students and I have a basic question I ask in each of these environments. How many of you in here planned to be a teacher I would like to teach and the hands that go up are so few. That is disconcerting. And then I talk to them about the opportunities in teaching and I ask why they would not choose this.

A lot has to do with working conditions especially ensuring that they're in a safe environment in school. North Carolina has addressed that. We're not where we need to be but we're moving closer to ensuring that that indeed does happen. We need to remove the red tape. We sometimes put too many barriers in the way of teachers moving from one position to the other. And we're working to do that. I think that if we put more emphasis in our universities and if we can tap the imagination of young children in high school we can at least begin to get them thinking more about becoming teachers. That's very encouraging to hear you say Howard and I Godspeed know what he's trying to do their wonderful this main. This suggests to me what contact do you have with these school boards you have a way of getting your thoughts into their thinking and locally around the country. Not as much as I need to and that is an area where I hope to pay a great deal more attention. My predecessor Phil Kirk came in at a challenging time when when we needed

to move toward ensuring that we had good high standards in our schools for student performance as well as for teacher performance we need to have great a dialogue with local school boards and local school systems. Let me tell you why. There was a time when the Department of Public instructions had to be the supervisor of all of our systems. That to me is not true today. We have some strong local school systems when you think of Charlotte you think of Wake County you think of Durham County. We have we are fortunate to have some really strong superintendents in these areas and they've got some strong staffs and they're bringing in some good teachers. I think we need to give greater flexibility to these larger early 80s similar to what we did with the University of the larger universities could have management flexibility. They can make decisions quicker and respond to needs faster. We need to do that with our local systems not all of that

ultimately happen. I think we have to have a better trained set of school board members who are overseeing the development of policy I'm finding too much bickering going on at the school level and you get one school board member who has one idea and it just disrupts the whole process. School boards need to be better trained and they need to be I think involved more in a broader way. My goal is to is to try to find ways to introduce that kind of training but we're close with the school board chairs across the state in terms of helping them connect better with their local system and understand what's going on at the state level from the department public instructions. Then we can take our resources which are very much limited now. And focus on those smaller systems that do not have the personnel and may not have the resources to respond to needs as as much as they need to and I think we do that we can achieve both those go. That leads me to ask you where are we in the Manning opinion litigation What do

you what do you expect to happen next. Well Judge Manning just received a letter from me giving him an update on what we've been doing to especially work in the whole county area. We we're making good numbers at the county chosen as that demonstrates that was the county chosen as a demonstration. Yes that was a county chosen demonstration. We have had an assistance team working in that county now for almost almost a year believe that was in there before I became chair and they've done a really good job in moving things forward to make a visit to hope County next week and planning to spend the better part of an afternoon meeting with the superintendent and trying personally to get a feel as to where we are. But we are still very much under the gun to demonstrate billeted to get a grasp on what we need to do to assist these smaller counties in a way that we

achieve the goals we need to achieve. I think we're making good progress there and I think our report to the judge reflects that we do get the message and that we are working hard to try to respond to what you're trying to do it establish a pretty uniform at least minimal level of service. That in and beyond we need to establish a minimal level but we need to go beyond that. We need to find ways to make sure that we get the best qualified teachers into these small counties which is not easy because getting some teachers to go and stay in these counties. We need to think I think about a variable Sauer scale that will accommodate and recognize that in some counties it's a hardship for teachers to go in and to be involved. We need to think about how we can improve the teacher cadre that is already there through the community college that's where I think community colleges can be helpful because these vote won't need to leave home. But then the university has to be very much involved with this as well. And if we can get that resource

high and we can ensure that the standards are being met I think we can get get the kind of flexibility we need to work with these other counties and duplicate that around the state. Knowing you. Certainly when you move around like this you always find time to let some of the students in a high school get your hand on even and some of the teachers so that you didn't write on the battle scene so to speak. Is that pretty refreshing for you. It is absolutely refreshing bill. The superintendent and I will be doing some joint appearances next week. In throughout the state we have set up a system which I demanded we set up that we go in the previous evening and have dinner with parents and business leaders that we then bring in teachers and we spend the next morning having breakfast with teachers and administrators

and that then we go into the school and we have not only observed classes but we have a change to sit with students and listen to some of the students tell us their stories and what they think we should be doing and how we do it. I can't tell you how absolutely inspiring it is to be able to listen to these young people and if they are those who believe we're missing the boat on this they need to go into the schools and be a part of this. Now what I've said and you know you keep hearing a lot about the achievement gap and I think it's important for us to work to close that achievement gap. But I have tried to emphasize the schools cannot do it alone. This takes a community effort and so I'm asking faith based institutions churches especially to put together after school tutorial programs and open up their facilities bring in retired teachers or other educators to work with these youngsters in conjunction with the school. And I think we'll see tremendous progress being made in that regard so I'm also asking faith community based leaders to come in and have conversation with

us as well. Do you get a good feedback so you know how well that works. It's a great idea. Yes we plan to have a system set up where we can absolutely know what's going on and be able to do to measure whether or not we have any you know any impact in that area because we really want to know which students have come into these programs. And we do have some grants we can give out that will help help in some ways and how these students are performing in school. And so if the end of grade school will start to improve we'll know that we have an impact but if they remain the same or get worse then we need to go back and revisit the whole question. Like you were yourself all it you're saying. Says to me the problem in the future is going to be leadership. Yes wherever you can find it whatever level it needs. Now you and I both know that the reason we can't get people in the public life today is the lack of civility. Yes and what goes on in the political process is and it's getting worse. How

are we going to turn this around your practice skilled person in political life. Where do we start appealing the people just look at what's happening here and let's turn this around. Well I think I think you start by recruiting a high level of leaders who are willing to get into whatever portion of the arena they they choose. And to be not only active in that arena but to establish communications and trust between themselves and the X terminal forces out there. I am convinced that too many of our leaders whether they are superintendents in school it's a principal at a school building or politician making educational policy or school board member get into these positions and turn in side as opposed to trying to be more broadly inclusive. Out there and they try to make the decisions and then the decisions are imposed upon the receptive whoever that is the teacher of the school the

principal whatever. I think public officials today. Need to have more person personal contact with the general public because that's how we develop trust. That's how we come to appreciate people. When folks just simply hear a name and politicians have pulled themselves away or superintendents are not out interacting with the business community and interacting with parents as they once did. We lose that human touch and I think in order to change that we have to encourage those who are in the position to be more proactive and more involved and more realistically in touch with people. We asked that we were working to create or strengthen something I'm sure you're familiar with the principals Executive Institute. We need to help principals understand how their role now has to go back to being very similar to the role of the old principal. Is that your job is to be out in the

community and engendering good feelings toward that school and good faith and some ownership. I see that the same as politicians. Is that your job is to be out there helping people understand your role in support of these various institutions and to make sure that people know that you're not just doing something that enhanced you for the next election but you're doing something that would have a long term benefit. Just listening to you you get a feeling for the enormousness of the school system. Dollar wise numbers thousands and thousands of children so our viewers will understand. How does the state board work. You meet monthly. You have professionals that help you understand. Superintendent is your chief a.. Yes but how does it really function. Well basically I try to tell people that the chair of the state board should be the legislative liaison and the policy leader for the state of North Carolina's educational systems should advocate for

resources and should be empowered to create policies that make sense that grew up out of the need as opposed to just simply being imposed. The state board itself is is the ultimate authority overseeing North Carolina's educational public schools. It meets once a month and it meets for two days. But the role of the school board member is for broader now than it was years ago of course. The one thing that hasn't changed and I told some friends of mine that I work hard to find a position that was more demanding and paid less than being a member of the Senate and I think I've succeeded. Being state board here as a state board member we get a $15 per Deum a day and we get expenses of course when we travel on behalf of the state board. Now that's none of us served for the money obviously but a state board member who represents a district has a responsibility of being in contact with those

local boards and with all of the if it is including the broader community in that in that area as a liaison and as a communicator. What's gong on. Then we the state board oversees the operation on both budgetary early and administrative leave. The Department of Public and book structure which is headed up as administrative chief officer the superintendent and of course we have staff in there who hit up various visions within that department. That means you and Mike have to be in almost weekly consultation. It means today that Mike and I have to be in daily consultation consultation that often because things are happening so fast and there are so many pressures. There was a time when the state board chair could not be an RA at all just simply come preside over the board and go home. That's not true anymore. It's a huge responsibility to the extent that that I've created an office in the Department of Public instructions and I'm in that office. If I'm not in that office every

day I am somewhere in the state. If interacting or engaged in some way. Now how do you then make certain that you have enough time to deal with the real policy issues as well as in the boat daily work. You have to set aside time so that when it comes to the question what do we do with No Child Left Behind. You have enough time ready to get into it get your hands on it. You absolutely do. And make sure that the board members included. As I said I have created a committee for example that works on reciprocity between the states. Their job is to come up with a policy to be recommended to the state board that we will put in place. I've worked with the governor's education cabinet to get them involved in professional and staff development and will work with other institutions to make sure that we get policies related to lateral entry on the table and dealt with everything in my life right now is almost

scheduled down to almost every hour. I do have another responsibility I work with just a tutor and so I have to spend some time there. But but the majority of my time is spent and we do make sure that we have a change to get reports and to dig into the various aspects of any federal policy that comes down. We for example are now rustling with what we call a reading first grant that the federal government is sending down but it's so prescriptive that it ties our hands and almost forces the state to go in a direction this state has already always resisted moving in and that is testing two year old and early childhood kids for five years. We really believe that that that we should not start testing youngsters really to earth just sitting here listening to you know really inspired with what you have going

on in the schools Howard and you know for everyone viewing this program and conveying to you personally our gratitude for your willingness to take on this very very critical task and I wish we had more time to talk about it but we don't. But ladies and gentlemen I know you've enjoyed this session with our state chairman been very and constructive and very informative. He and I thank you for letting us visit with you tonight until next week. Good night. Funding for North Carolina people is made possible in part by what can be new teachers about changing the NDR a great deal of science might be well financially. We learn from the world around us. Together we can explore common possibilities.

Well for management and by contributions from UN see TV viewers like you.