Men And Women of Distinction: Sid McMath

You just can't. We'll go to you went back into the Marines there I believe you took your commission so did the guards or at you had had the reserve and then you went back into active duty a year before Pearl Harbor right. And what were you doing on Pearl Harbor Day by the way you were there. All of us do yeah. After I went to home as it is as you mention as we mentioned I went back in August of 1940 before a year before Pearl Harbor. And the reason I went back in I felt obliged to and then I had a reserve commission.

And so. When I was getting out of the Corps in nineteen thirty seven. Colonel Captain Lewis Chesty Puller one of the most famous Marine ever highly decorated came by my orders to see me and he said Sandy called Scotchman saying that I can understand you going home to marry your sweetheart and to practice law. But let me tell you something. He says you need to take a reserve commission because we're going to war. Now that was 1937 or you were saw they war against Japan and he told it to the and predicted it to be Japan is that right. That's right he thought of Japan then and then really was was getting. Psychologically prepared for war against Japan

at that time. Of course a very small organization only had about 17000 Marines it into the war they had five divisions you know. But anyway so I took the commission and went back in the Marine Corps and went through a refresher course. And then I stayed on at Quantico at the Marine training school there trainings second lieutenants officer candidates for two years. And Elaine joined me in Quantico and we had our son and quite a close and it was born it was Sandy. And then she died. She died on our fifth wedding anniversary in her the age was she at that time she was twenty five. What a tragedy. And so then I requested overseas duty. And General Shepperd was the commander of the school at the time limit will shepherd. He subs who became commandant of the Marine Corps and I

had put in three applications for transfer for the third time the application I put in he sent for me. And he says because I went in a salute stand in front of a desk so he can take you to get your pack all together. I said I got it together sir. He said you'll get on the next bus to New River North Carolina are you going to join the Third Regiment which is going to join the 3rd Marine Division and to go into the Solomons. Oh goodness. So I went down and joined the Third Marine Regiment and we were just putting it together and and then we went on out to the Pacific area. The military has always been an important part of Sydney that's why it has it's always been a very meaningful part I should say in your life and also in your career you know. And just recently you were saluted. On Flag Day. Local citizens here and now it's really

in fact it seems like every time I pick up the paper Colonel TV hears government math once again being saluted by some group you know the old statehouse Convention Center of the bar association or a group of military people in. So you're kind of the mad math Renaissance Speer yet I bet you do just well if you did Ryan Grant tribute to my you discovered I still around where are you. Yeah and really a wonderful thing. Well the military it was it was an important part of my life and it was a privilege to serve and. I feel that my greatest contribution if I made a contribution I made some contribution was in as a training officer. They had Quantico trained that two years I was training officer candidate. And though they were outstanding youngsters honor students from colleges and so

forth. Some of what I want to be senators judges and so forth and matter of fact I tried its case about five years before I go before a judge who is one of my students and also a Cal laggard Moscow which was small world and then when I went to we went to oversee the Marines landed in the Solomons in August of nineteen forty two. First Marine Division and we were to join the 1st Marine Division but en route we were diverted to American Samoa. You know that was a base of really operations in that part of our island to protect it against the Japanese who were moving south towards New Zealand Australia. So as soon as I got ashore said well I am sure going to get. Company our battalion major it and they gave me a word as I was going to be training officer of the jungle warfare home. Well that was important.

So it was very clear we set up a jungle warfare school and put their noncommissioned officers and their junior officers of the third very remote through a jungle warfare school. And then cause after that I was major operations officer for the 3rd Marine Regiment and that's where we were when we went. So you saw some real combat that Guadalcanal movement will use in the Solomon Islands chain and the Pacific Theater so to speak and here you come out of the Marines and you are decorated with the Legion of Merit the Silver Star you are now major who you were you became a major general in the United States Marine Reserve if I'm not mistaken there so once again we see the the the real impact the military. Has had on your life. I was in Guadalcanal but I was not in Guadalcanal in the first phase of the Guadalcanal were pretty well secured time we got there. We iz Guadalcanal as a base to

go on up to new Georgian Velo Velo called among Garland Bougainville and we had a lot of activity at Guadalcanal which still had conflicts and so forth but the big fighting was over when I got right. Well Governor your military career is one thing and your legal career. Let's talk a little bit about that political career let's talk about when you leave the Marines you come back and you come back to hot spring has you come to Garland County Arkansas. Tell us about Garland County and what was that 1945 when you came back. Back in 45 espresso back Garland County what was going on. Well Garland County of course at previous or stated we moved there when I was 10 years of age and so I stayed there through high school and course kept contact with hosp ranges certainly until I went the Marine Corps and their situation

in hot springs from a poetical stand part would just say. Least was sad it was tragic. We had illegal gambling in Hot Springs and it wasn't just the gambling per se that was so bad really evil but in order to operate illegally and the machine had to control the election machinery appointed judges barns have elected Commission and so that they can control all law enforcement officials the mayor the prosecuting attorney the circuit judges. Yup and then starts up down the line say. And they they say selected the grand jurors and they selected the padded jurors and if you and if you had a lawsuit over end

in minutes of all court. You had to be on the right side if you are going to get anything like justice or if you had a case out in circuit court out at the courthouse. If the opposition had an interest in the other side you are in trouble because they selected to Geron jurors came from people downtown the castle you know as the bookies say the houses of ill fame and so forth are businesses who are allied with the administration and behold of the M4 operations they could. If you are against them and so forth they could raise your taxes. Although if you are in a certain business requiring a license they could make it difficult for you to get a license or the license might be revoked. And if you persisted in opposing done you could be in serious trouble. So here you were in your early 30s. You'd come back you'd located in Hot Springs Arkansas and all the sudden you look around and you see that there is a machine that is a machine county and if there's an individual by the name of Leo Michael

Flynn who is Leo MC often who was he was a Leo was a very personable guy who had great charisma and great ability and he had gone to law school out in Tulane and he was elected mayor he was a colorful guy. He wore. Fraud have turned up and from near on all the time dressed immaculately he had two horses named scotch and soda hitching up to a buggy and ride down through Sense at last to be admired by his his vassals self and he was an actual speaker he could really rouse a mob you know. And when they had had a political campaign his interest in he had everybody come over to the auditorium and you'd give the speech and get instructions and if you

had a kid sometimes you take his trial last so you know he was practicing law but he didn't hold an office did he would he was saying it was the money for him there you had been mayor for 10 years yes he was run a year that's right. So he presided as the mayor and his second lieutenant was a municipal judge Judge. And so they kind of ran things. And as I say if you had a case out at circuit court and he was on the other side you were in trouble probably. So were all the G.I. who had come back it will be we weren't. We were intimidated so to speak and we felt that we had been fighting for our freedom around the world and we should use a little of it at home. Can't you get these other g ass together and we got together we can do to meet your home did you go over that we would have to go get a court to ask oh say overall his

people I imagine however that there was a good citizen the name of Earl Ricks Earl Ricks are all Ricks and and another citizen by the name of Raymond Clinton. I'll call on the president they had a Clinton Ric's bionic agency and they had a huge garage. And so we held our meetings and they wrecked garage and course they had amazing they've got to sell very many cars to the city administration with Michael Beschloss in the dark. And so that's why we've met most of the times that you know that you have to meet in secret or you know we don't meet in secret we kept our flag was this what is known as the G.I. revolution and we certainly have revolution and most of the people involved were young men like yourselves and maybe young women who had

served their country who came back who had come back. That's right and they weren't in business they didn't have they couldn't be close down their license you could be revoked and so forth and we just wanted to make a change. We thought the time was right to do it and so you ran for Iran's your base you ran for prosecuting attorney and I was there and income but prosecuting attorney Yeah there was a comfy couch. Now we had a candidate for every spawn from Constable on up to a certain candidate. And we ran and I guess it was in primary vision. Forty six. And we were I was the only one elected in the primary. And I was elected because McGovern County was a part of that judicial district change additional district and I got swept girly girl mechanics to make it on and I hope you know the God of the coward Garland

and the we for somehow the telephone communication between Malvern and his range were cut so the people in Garland County didn't know and it was too late. How many votes they needed only to overcome the vote down him and so will we organized and the pendent party and all the candidates G.I. candidates who had been defeated ran his independence for the offices they had run for the primary didn't have really a Republican Party no head no report no party. So they we had and I didn't have many in Camden and it was only want to change the law. Judge Perry a father and grandfather were about the only Republicans there and there was a lawyer of the name of Richard Pryor who also vote Republican. We didn't know about anyway we organize and dependent.

Party and the candidates all ran and course in a primary you will recall in a primary you had to get your poll tax back when at year we want to talk about protests after we had to get it a year before you say and so people then particularly weren't interested in an election they did well it models not going out not going to any good anyway. But then when I won so people got interested and they were maybe there's a chance. So we organized a drive to get poll taxes for the general election and you could as I recall if you get the poll tax for the general election 20 days before the election was rigged. So we had a women in particular just spread out and call people to the polls and got on the telephone and coast we swept the field in the general election elected everybody. So the whole slate was that was a revolution if you had like the place and the track that was in 1946 I was there I was speaking of lawyers at that time I've always heard and knew him eventually I served with him in the state

legislature a man I admire a great deal with very complex minimize Nathan Sheldon failed ninth and was sort of an ally of yours at that time they said it was one of our closest. That is correct to be brilliant man. He was smart he would be Harvard he was he was a. Well I don't want to pay for your school years. It was horrible. Yes it will bring you a he was a brilliant guy and he was a tremendous help. Then you know all the leg way and so in that she's like trained I neglected to say that and the general election because we avoided those illegal poll taxes we brought suit and the United States federal court and we were able to get the issue in federal court because I had a friend in Pine Bluff name of Pat Morris who volunteered to run as an independent filers and depended solely and he gave the federal court jurisdiction over the issue because a federal officer Congress

was going to be very big to be voted on. And so we threw out three or four thousand of the illegal poll taxes and they just made a policy I think I'm not mistaken. Dr. Robert de Leffler of the University of Arkansas Law School. The venerable dean of the law school and probably the best known in legal circles and in our history Dr. Leffler also became a semi advisor to you and Nathan Schoenfeld and the other people who were attempting to bring back. So that's correct that we had a close friend I had a close relationship yes with our love for and and with a good mentor student. Yes I shared with his brother let us and I got to know him real well when I was a student cause he was a tremendous teacher and a great lawyer and one of the things that I was

proudest of as governor that I did appointed to the Supreme Court when he always wanted to serve a very great man. He had run it one time in all the world has been politically inclined I was a student write your book and this made it possible for him to conduct this judge's school in New York. To Dr. annual seminar you link back he blew he flew back and forth to back to New York all the time are they all planted near the mark of that hope someday that. The historians will give him a very very exalted place in Arkansas in history have you met his son. Oh yes know him well he is a rock. You know he speaks Japanese looks Japanese and he's going to teach a course at Harvard in the next several months so he's going to all teach He's a wonderful young man and our legal profession is trying to bless you to have him. So so what was it Matt Matt do this first few weeks as prosecutor prosecuting

attorney in Garland County. Well of course the first thing we do it convene a grand jury to investigate the gambling operations and see what their earnings were and see what they did with the mother money answerable and cause we close down all the illegal gambling in Hot Springs at a racetrack but that was a legal operation. And we. Because he knows we're close oh yeah the casino is a book isn't everything a closed down that was the first thing we did and then we had a few cases to prosecute and start a campaign for governor and you ran for governor two years later to you 1948 and I just thought OK so who was the governor of Arkansas with that time when mainlining been landed ventilating and of course Ben Lanny you know we had some differences but you know the is it the equalisation plan the distribution of phones you know you can't see the

revenues revenues Aisha's making accuracy or can spend more money you take a drive that has a tremendous boom. Yeah and he was responsible I was in is it not and I think that's how he got the name business but he did then yes in the span of business they had Well you know he. We had this election and I was he was running on his record as businessman and he was. His people were bragging about how he had cut taxes. And so we did a little research on how much taxes he had he had he had reduced cost. I like the end he was a very personable guy and we found out he had reduced taxes on lightning rods beehives and buggy whips. So it was about feet before I didn't lobby I didn't but it was a great a great Arkansas political story it had been a lady from Kandahar and we

had to send back to our homes or next door to the ladies and our families were sort of intermingle there to some extent Of course they got the band Lanie had and 1948 was involved with the Dixiecrats right now I want to talk about the Jessica credits after while bin Laden became very infatuated with the Democrats and at one time I understand that strong Thurman I mean he credits the Dixiecrats he was strong Thurmond when he walked out of the convention. I guess he would have been governor of South Carolina at that time. Strong forget it. Yeah I guess so. And you know he at one time maybe even more had been led to become his running mate. Oh the Dick's right take it from Preston. You did a you did a very courageous thing in 1988 in here you were not governor. You were the governor elect. You had been elected in the primary. And we were faced with the decision in our country of Thomas Dewey or

Harry Truman and 1948 in every every one assume that Thomas Dewey would just clobber Harry Truman and defeat him and send him off and obscurity. But Harry Truman won that race. Arkansas was one of the very few Southern states there remained loyal to the national Democratic ticket. And why was that. Well. Truman at that time was unpopular preferably because of a civil rights program and the Dixie crash as you indicate they were in a convention strong Thurman feeling right then Lane in trouble or in the Democratic convention at Chicago and they were unhappy about the platform so far so they withdrew from the convention and

I think went to either McGovern Alabama Jackson Mississippi I don't remember exactly what you want. Wasn't nominated fielding right as president and strong Thurman as vice president and and Governor Laney chaired that Dixiecrat mating. Well you don't think they flew the Confederate flag here in their right about the idea that I have to do everything but you know as you pointed out all the polls indicated that Truman would be defeated and no one thought he would win except Harry Truman. He thought he was a great president and I imagine we'll have an opportunity to talk. Yes I'd love to talk about your relationship. As soon as I was nominated in 48 one of the things that I did immediately in two or three things that I took. But I feel that the most important thing I did was start campaigning for President Truman and we were able to carry Arkansas all by a real good

vote majority vote. And as I remember we were the only Southern state that stayed in the Democratic Party I could I think maybe North Carolina I don't guess was considered a southern state southern state maybe one. But anyway Arkansas State and immigrating party. And President Truman appreciated that and we got to he came to Arkansas several times. Here's a fabulous picture of you and President Truman walking down Main Street and he had on a white suit animo had a dark suit your famous red tie. And and you know we're speaking right now to tell you that that's a great photograph McCord took that picture but McCaw of a chord with legs you know one night. It's a great victory just it says so much about that era. Yeah and you know that was there 30. 5th division reunion is all army act after it. You know Truman was a captain

in the first world war. You know it was a National Guard Army and so he always went to their convention and he always marched with the troops and so on this occasion he came to Arkansas and and we marched down Main Street as you indicated with proud of the troops and we got down to Markham we turned west or left on Markham and went up to the old Marin hotel I want to ask you back there. They say that you had a private audience with President Truman. Could you tell on the television. Yeah you know they actually did have talked about I think so out of it I think we can tell that you were in the Marriott Hotel her hotel in Venice it was really to our advantage wait. And you didn't have all the entourage around the president you have now so we had a quiet visit. It was in July it was in the summer that he was July. We went into the to his feet and he said Governor how would you like to have a drink. How

about turnabout. Do you have specified as bread. He said Well how about bourbon and branch water. Great. Well you go and be waited on by the highest paid marked in the world that is a girl I looked around wondering why because this is so her period. Yeah he got behind a bar and he took all those low ball glasses kneepads poured a half of bourbon and a half of water and we set out a vision for 45 minutes an hour talked he talked our list. He wanted an attentive ear and I provided for him and it was a very. Did you talk about the upcoming election that he was going through. That was an don't know actually actually this time source and this was after he had I think I do you know do you remember that talk about pictures. You remember the Chicago Herald has really had that big defeats True Mother truck and the pictures of Truman holding that up with a better a oh you look great big smile. He was rubbing over he had what any he were regretting it in great heat and of course

he was so controversial Harry Truman as a person but he was to find out he was never took a poll. And he had a sign on his desk of the book stops here and he didn't blame anything that's right and something went wrong. That's right and nobody thought he would mount anything rather thought he was just a penny grass politics right for you can just see he but he had great character. Yes sir. And he understood. And he was for the people and the people who are going to war. He knew and understood history although he was a historian Harriman was a historian he sure and by the way we're trying to do that right now on our own so we're trying to have arc and so history told in all of our schools and we hope our people will get behind that effort. We're you know we're trying desperately we've gone through now a generation of not taught Arkansas history. David has been one of the finest Thank you. Do we need to do that. We don't like I was 25 going to Bussy. Right in the morning one would

go to school for saying we do it we're saying a Star-Spangled Banner pledge allegiance to the flag and saying Arkansas. That's right that's a great song and I don't get the kids you know we sometimes have great rivalries with our friends in Texas and and no question about that we have had in the past will in the future. But there's one thing about Texans that I admire. They're proud of their state. And one reason I think they have an excessive amount of pride is because they know its history and they know the state's history they know where they came from. They know who they are. And as Dr. Gatewood at the University of Arkansas always says it's time we start defining ourselves and not let everyone else do it for so I really hope that our state will be had this effort and we're going to really make an effort. You know they have to teach our kids our history proud of that's right. Ed is no state had a more

fabulous colorful and that is a little reed in Arkansas but we've got you know I history you have to be proud of the state that is correct. So here you were you were governor 90 artwork. This would be a good stop Susie could you turn on some Mayor are you there. Good didn't you joy there was thank you much.