On The Same Page; Tayari Jones

Hello and welcome again to on the same page and Tommy Sanders once again we're coming to you from Blytheville Arkansas at that bookstore in Blytheville where the proprietor Mary Gay Shipley's put together a wonderful model of an independent bookstore a place that's been so successful through the years it's now a part of the itinerary for many of the nation's leading authors both the established ones and the new ones. Our author today probably falls into the new author category at Tiare Jones was already a literary award winner before she finished her him if a writing program at Arizona State University. She's a native of Atlanta Georgia and was a grade schooler there at the time when the city was gripped by a terrible series of child murders. Her book leaving Atlanta is a story of three children school children who lived through that terrible time dealing with those fears. The social and family issues of the day and the terrible personal politics of the fifth grade a fascinating book will discuss it with some of your fellow Arkansans and then meet the office today on the same page. We are back and ready to meet our panel to discuss leaving Atlanta First up I want you to meet Katie Atkinson

Katie is a junior at Armorel high school right here in Blytheville Arkansas marshal Robert MacLean is a teacher in Gaza now not too far away. And Norma Bell is a black hole resident as well with the bookstore. Gee I wonder what bookstore that would be I don't see one damn book store in the law that we have found Norma that bookstores are not only good places to find books are good places to find readers so thank you all for being here today and we'll just start we'll go around the table and tell us what you think about the book and the effect it had on you what you like about it what you didn't like about I think it was really good I really did like it gave me an inside on how other little children feel when they're young and what it's like to have to deal with something like that. You know how they can't have just a normal childhood because of it. Norm are related in lots of ways but mainly because I can remember being that age being in the fifth grade and just wanting to belong you know and to think that they went through what they were going through you know dealing with the murders in their free

and you know coming up missing and wondering what's happening to him. And still you have to deal with the every day the everyday difficulties of growing up in China feeding it. So I loved it. And I related to a couple of characters in here Marsha. I thought it was a great book it's a very powerful book. And you know after all these years finally having it told through a story I thought was really great and did a great job in doing that. Unlike Norma I don't remember that period of my heart. That I can relate to the kids because I teach and kids of any age you know go through terrible times in their lives so yeah they have fears and they have those daily trials and tribulations that they have to get through to you so you relate to that. You forget I guess when you get to be as old as I am what is it what a social scene the fifth grade was how many things you had to face and as you say on a daily basis little triumphs little disappointments and it's really it's tipped to meet sort of three books in one that are interwoven yet so well together three different characters their stories told by those characters but in three different

sort of voices and we can talk about that in a little bit first I think we should we should get into the characters maybe would that be a good place to start. And Tashi Baxter of course the first character that comes very social position conscious person when you say Katie. Yeah she just seemed kind of like you know I don't you know he had different levels of. Popularity and she just has kind of stuck in the middle she didn't know what to do. You know just kind of affected her whole life. Very smart person but maybe not as practical as some of the other students very very intelligent. Maybe not as practical one I suppose Norma Shia. She wanted to be one of the better like students in her class. And I think again it just goes along with with being a child and being at that age and peer pressure or whatever because I like to stack I remember being that age and there was this one girl that I just had to be friends with just wanted to be France with her. And one day we

would be friends the next day she would be mad at me and there were several in the groups overseas met at you the rest of the group won't speak to you either so you go through bad and I went through that for years for years until she moved away thank God. And. It affects you what you went through as a child that affects you and it stays with you. It stays with you. Tosha has sort of a budding friendship maybe a little romance with just one of the characters in the book and this romance or friendship how to redefine it is sort of affected and goes up and down based on the peer pressure she gets from from her. The other girls in her class. And I thought the scene where she goes to the roller skating rink and that's where she and just just a really kind of click and then almost immediately after that is when he disappears. And she's the one who said you know those magic words of I hope he gets you I hope he snatches you open. And very of course that was what she was feeling at that

time as a little fifth grader. You know just to have those words come out and then she really want to take them back. You know she knew that after he got sent THAT WAS SO SCARY NTR did such a good job of putting that all together I thought right that that haunted her so much as well as her father's prediction that they wouldn't last beyond his 18th birthday both those things made them feel very badly when they're actual those sorts of things came to pass and it is just really chilling back to the book very very skillful on the part of the author to put this forward. Rodney GREENE Let's talk about Romney completely sort of different character or not. I don't think is interested in his social standing more live more of an internal one. Would you say Katie. He was he was more someone who kept to himself. Yeah he seemed like a more friendly person you know it was more open to make friends with those that didn't have many friends and I liked him a lot. Why did you think you someone who wanted to be well-liked and maybe didn't

know the right way to go about it. Or maybe it was a little awkward. I think every child wants to be liked by everybody. I do think he was kind of I didn't know what to do. So he was just he didn't really have any friends like Octavia said he was just willing to find a friend in any way. You know it's I want Octavia. I thought it was fascinating his sort of addiction to Candy. I've known people like that especially when I was that age and I never quite knew what it meant what do you think it represents in the book. You think it has meaning other than that was just one of his ways he retreated. One of the things he retreated into you know I think it was just candy just candy just let me well I can I guess he just liked it more than that or the time or that it was even more than that because he got caught up in taking it to please someone else. Yes you know yes. So right it did go a little farther and in showing how much he needed to be liked and wanted to be lived. Now is that Leon that he caught up with I forget that character's name but anyway. Yeah that was.

Yeah. Very weird showing of course Rodney story at the end. Completely disturbing. That you know was he fatalistic. Did he have. Had he reached a point where he had lost his way so much that maybe he didn't want to make the right choices. Do you think that's possible in Romney's case enough is that he didn't want to make the right choices as much as he might have felt like he didn't have a choice really like that was the only advantage to this is this is this is the only thing I can do it in your life to escape his dad. And let's go on to Octavia Octavia. Probably I think probably the smartest of all three as far as practical smart to go and probably have more burdens to bear although you never can you know that than than the other three because I think all had you know troubles as a lot of fifth graders do at home with the family. And Tavia's mother probably needed more attention and more help than the other

parents would you would you agree to that and she's done all by herself. Normal Would you would you say that. Well most definitely yeah. You would think that she's a single parent and it was just hard it was hard for and she was doing the best that she could and. I don't know. It was does it was just a really rough for me. And life was rough for us. She had all sorts of a problem as a result we had yes we forget I guess how cruel fifth graders can be you know in grade schoolers in general but it's it was portrayed very vividly I think in the book and if you're a big holder What do you see. Wasn't it. Yeah yeah I mean and you know they made fun of or and and and yet she held up through all that you know and very well very really an very resourceful and yes person person and I felt positive about even though she was being sent away I felt real real positive about her outcome how she was going to turn out as she and Rodney green

began to get closer. But before tragedy befell Rodney it was it was very interesting because the steps were so tentative that way these were two people who'd had trouble you know obviously from other classmates and everything and it was it was. You kept wanting to yeah that chapter to go on maybe them to become closer and have some satisfaction and friendship with us. In those scenes in the cafeteria I guess because I teach and I see that every day the scenes of the kids inviting come over here and sit with me and eat. And then you're moving toward someone and you want to sit new with them. But they they make it a point to not look at you and you know you don't come over here and sit by me. And that's so that is such a social thing for kids you know and it can be such a hurtful experience for them and that's what was happening to them you know. Absolutely. The terrible the ghastly series of child murders that was taken place in Atlanta hangs over every page in the book. It's so skillfully done that you know the author really doesn't spend any time really talking graphically about the murders at all.

Yet it's there on every page. It hangs on every page and I just marvel at that sort of. Degree of skill to create a story to craft it with an atmosphere that never leaves yet doesn't require a lot of verbiage to get it across to you all because it started from the very beginning with the rain. You know that little distant rain that that gave the whole dark atmosphere to the book and then and then continued with it as you say. Just scenes here and there that are snippets from the television and the TV would be on and they would catch just a little bit about somebody else disappearing and and then the kids would recognize that was a classmate of theirs or someone who lived down the street. But it was very well done it didn't overpower the book you know it wasn't always there you know. But you knew it was there underneath the underlying thing. Yeah the end of the book. Very poignant I thought. Octavia had to go why could she why did she think in her mind that she couldn't go. Every student I believe that's what I think to be friendly.

That's right she she felt her mom needed her even though her mentor had told her that in the movie that her mom proposed was the minutes for her to be hard because you know you have this special attachment with your mother you know and nobody wants to be you know displaced from their parents. Nobody does and this is so she's been with. So it had to be hard it had to be tremendously hard. They realized that she was going to have to live. Yeah. Very wrenching the whole thing but a book with I guess you'd all agree a lot of humor in it so many things that it makes you smile when you and so many things that you just go oh yes how true. Forgotten about that. And yet so chilling at the same time. Thank you all for being with us today and sharing your thoughts on this Katie Achates and Norma bell. Marcia McLean will be back and talk to the author here on the same page. Very pleased to have to Uri Jones with us today the author of leaving Atlanta thank you so much for making a little time for us today on our show. Thank you for having me. It's been a long time.

More than 20 years since that period of time that or a frightening period of time we get so much information on a daily basis that unfortunate a lot of us have forgotten what the mood was like in the country and in Atlanta during that time would you would you share with us your recollection of that time and what was going on in Atlanta. The thing that the most recent events that have captured the mood that was in Atlanta would be the mood across the country right after September 11th. The idea of things that we assume were safe were not safe and looking for danger under every rock in places where you had never considered danger. That's how the atmosphere was in Atlanta at that time someone was killing the children. Almost every week it seemed that we'd look on the news and they would say another child is missing and and the people would say to us if you don't know who it is you don't know who it's not which meant that anyone you knew could be because the idea was that the children must be lured by someone close to them which meant they had been you shouldn't scrutinize the people close to you. So the whole

environment was tense. But another thing which people haven't thought about or mentioned very much because the children are in such danger. Children became almost like citywide celebrities. Everyone wanted to do something to save children to organize afterschool programs for children which children need anyway. You know whether or not there's an danger or not. So while there was this fear there was also this great love and appreciation for children everywhere. Maynard Jackson was the mayor. Yet at that time and I know a lot of people what I can recall from the time a lot of people may be criticizing him because it was a fast growing city Atlanta was growing so it's such an enormous area that he was trying to to balance between the powerbrokers of other generations and so forth like that and he the prosecutors and everyone felt pressure to get this thing solved quickly find a person and say it's over and get on with life. Do you recall it that way. I really remember it. So much what I recall because I was only like 11 10 or 11 years old. But I do remember what the little snips I would hear from my parents but I also did some reading

later to fill out that part of the story and what I do remember is that the mayor was under a lot of pressure also because at that time the garbage workers had gone on strike and he fired them. And so this made quite a class rift in the community the idea that you know he'd fire the garbage workers and Atlanta was the only city at that time they had a black mayor a black school board president black police chief so people thought it was a promise land. But then they felt it was the promised land for only some for the people who were not. Of Atlanta's black elite or did had not gone to Atlanta's elite black colleges they felt that they were excluded in most of the children who were killed were from the lower income parts of Atlanta and everyone was saying that if these children had been children from another side of town. There would have been more attention faster so it was kind of interesting is most of the time people always think of this as a racial thing. The children who were murdered were black. But at that time Atlanta became a very strong class thing that they were black and they were poor.

I know the solution or the how the murder was quote unquote solved stillness doesn't satisfy a lot of people. Well you know because Wayne Williams who was convicted with two with a double star double term of life in prison that had was convicted of killing and two adults a 27 year old I think a 23 year old and he was not tried for the children although it was understood that he was being tried out tried as a child murderer. And so people felt like those cases had not been tried. And also it was 1982 he was convicted on a lot of fiber evidence which is microscopic and this was pre O.J. pre DNA and people felt like this man killed 30 people and you got lit so people were not satisfied and there was also a profound distrust for the judicial system. So you mix all that together you do have a community that feels like these deaths of these children had not been settled there has not been justice. As a school kid at that time despite what people were telling you we don't know who it is or who it is not. Did you have a composite sort of photo in your mind of who you were

looking out for. And all your school mates were looking for. Well I had no idea what it would drive I just knew that there were it would be a sedan you wouldn't really imagine a child murderer in a coupe. You know I knew that it would be a sedan. Really. And I mean I imagine that the person would probably open a door and just pull you in because I could imagine myself going with this stranger I was not that kind of child. But I do think that and I try to show in the book that what you think of as the fear the fear is this the terror is nameless and faceless. So depending on the details in your life is what you put on like Rodney and my book is afraid of his father so he thinks oh my goodness maybe as my father you see so it depends on what's going on in your life. And because my I had a fairly tranquil harmonious home as a kid. And so I just knew it would be just some stranger who would snatch you away from people who love you as some sort of monster that just couldn't. There was no accounting for. Right just. And but I knew I was going to cooperate this I knew you know I was a very good child. We're not having trouble at home but our characters are three school children

in the book starting with with Dr. Baxter was having some trouble at home and this atmosphere transformed a trip to yes her parents are getting a divorce but her dad comes back to be with the family in this hard time. I thought of that because the idea that she as a middle class child in that strange way was almost a beneficiary of this horror that was after she got her dad back because of that and they kind of asked her understanding of her position in society. And I could empathize with her on that although I didn't almost lose my dad I did understand as because of the child murders what it meant to be a child was some privilege what it meant to have parents who could afford to have to supervise you to have you supervise and be for the children who are poor and the children who are not. It came down to what shoes were you wearing. You know did you have a raggedy book bag or did you have the latest lunchbox. But in 1909 the Have and Have Not meant life or death.

Yeah that's it's virtually. The father's prediction Tosh is angry words to the young man who eventually was murdered. That's right. It's really creepy and it felt that way to them as well didn't it. And while the father says to him you know that would be lucky if he sees the other side of 18. I mean that's a kind of pronouncement my dad to make all of the mad at us ever predicting people's future it's me that's like a kind of old school man right. And you know to look at children and say where they got you know that those were never gone mountain other than this one. Never going to get to be grown etc. but in 1979 words meant so much more I think because too if you made these predictions they could come true fast. It wouldn't be at your tenure you'd be union you'd look back and say oh this person fell by the wayside. It was happening in real time. Rodney green the next year another child who was lucky enough to family had the means to afford supervision of Romney but Romney felt that he was over supervising so many was especially by his dad right.

Yes he was afraid of his father's father was a self-made man who was his own boss and he wanted to make sure that his son grew up the way he felt a boy should grow up and Riley is a very delicate kind of gentle boy's introverted doesn't talk to people he was not boy enough for his father. And I kind of thought that was interesting. I started thinking about that idea actually in my own life when I wanted to go off and go to school to study writing and my father said to me cuss like Dad I'm just that challenge you know about my current endeavors. I don't know and he said you need to pick cotton when you pick cotton you don't sit out there and see if you can be challenged by the cotton you know said the confit and say this is not my niece. This cotton does not recognize my complexity. You know he said you just pick the damn cotton. And I thought about that and I realized that if I had been a boy they would not supported me go back to school to find my niece because if I was a boy I had to pick the cotton. And that's actually where the idea of Rodney Green came from the idea of a boy who won't pick the cotton who who doesn't feel satisfied with his life and searching for the nuance and that's a generation

gap our parents especially for African-Americans you know no one has ever had hardly any money from generation back have been so caught up on survival the idea of these dreamy children who you know are not challenged by the cotton is just kind of hard pill for them to swallow it and have patience for that. You know they're just like what is that that's not a problem black people have. We don't have time for that. Are we to be we don't find ourselves. Yes. OCTAVIA. Yes. For many people read the book the most sympathetic character probably the smartest most practical most resourceful of the three. Would you agree with that. I think she's definitely most resourceful. She might be the smartest I don't know she's definitely the best survival skills I never really thought of who's smart of the films like they're my kids and that's not nice to compare each other like that. But she is definitely the most feisty. And she is the one who has the most to lose. She has me she'd already say that her home life is a lot Rodney for example his the fragility of his home life. He would have outgrown that. I think if he had stayed in 15 the things that worked out better for the poor guy and same for tosh as she got

older. You know they would have been OK they had a foundation on which to build for a kid like Octavia growing up in low income housing her mother works all the time. One false move could dash her future. So I guess I would say that where there are no murders she would be in the most precarious situation. And but she is also the feisty isn't she's the one I think is probably best who even though a child is best equipped to take care of herself in a way that Tashi would never have to given the circumstances at that time for yes or any circle or any SS with Touchett and Tasha's main things that she wants to make sure she gets invited by summer parties and has something nice to wear. That's about the extent of her problems and they feel real to her the only problem she has. But Tavia really has some sort of adult almost situation so she has to negotiate one thing that struck me is how little time you actually if you were to expand talking about the actual physical horrors of the child abductions and murders yet it's there on every page. I think we will learn more about it from the kids

reactions to the news casters there in Atlanta than from anything I think you spend more time talking about the Octavia's mom smoking habits than Yet it's there and that's that seems very skillful. Sure you've received some praise for that. Well thank you actually I've received some criticism in a periodical recently about that. It said the murders are really in here I think they wanted to see some bodies or something but I really want to write a novel about the culture the way that it changed to change the culture the lifestyle. And I did want to dwell on the details and get into the conspiracy theories and such. I just wanted to show the way it wove itself into our childhood. Not though and I disagree if people say oh you had no childhood because we did. It's just that our childhood had this running through it. And I tried to get that before we close. I'd like you to read it the second that it's Octavia. She's mad at the world things are all sort of coming down at one time and begins right there. And it's a very energetic scene and her language is so wonderfully direct.

OK I'll read this and before I guess the only thing you really need to know is that Kenny is her uncle who came to live with him but he's been sent away because he was on drugs. But she didn't know he was on drugs and she doesn't know what that is so it doesn't really bother her the way it would bother us to say someone is on drugs. And Monica Kaufman whose motive here is a newscaster that lanta she was the first black newscaster in everyone. We just loved her and we watched her and acted like we knew her OK. She says Mama didn't unplug the Christmas tree before she went to work. It flashed on and off like a silent alarm. I put my hand on the TV to cut it on but then I changed my mind. I was tired of dead kids search parties and reward money. If I never saw Monica Kaufman again it would be too quick. And I was mad at everyone I ever met in my whole life mattered to Shanti for bringing bad luck to our neighborhood. I was mad at Mama for putting up the stupid tree by herself for handing me over to Ray like a $2 gift swap. And she was the one who sent Kenny away. I kicked the Christmas tree and one blue glass ornament landed near my bare foot. The lights kept up the on and off I wanted to pitch a real fit like white

girls on TV throwing dishes against the wall hollering and cussing between each crash. If I was a white girl I would chuck a cereal bowl across the kitchen cussing at Kenny for get himself kicked out for putting his hands everywhere when he took me. I might break a whole shelf of glasses screaming at Rodney for sharing his candy with me and then getting his self snatched two days later. And last I would destroy mama's green punch bowl cussing at myself for being too stupid to see that nothing last that people get away from you like a handful of sweet smoke. Wonderful. They are Jones thank you so much for joining us today by having me. We appreciate it. OK. We'll see you next time on the same page thanks for joining us and thanks to everyone here at that bookstore in blood that will see you next time. This is my first novel leaving Atlanta. It is a coming of age story set against the backdrop of the Atlanta child murders. When I was in the fifth grade children in Atlanta started disappearing. By the end of two years 30 children almost 30 children would be dead. I was in the fifth grade at the time and two of the students went to my class. I wanted to write this novel to write to look at the ways that

these murders affected our growing up. I wasn't so interested in the forensics of the case who found what bodies where who I think is guilty but I wanted to look. I want to document the experience of those of us who are in the fifth grade in one class at Oglethorpe Elementary School in southwest Atlanta to comment about our program or our book leaving Atlanta. Visit our Web site at ETN dot org.