The American Scene; Unidentified

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry ,台灣 While there is considerable amount of unemployment in the country at the present

time, the unemployment is largely concentrated amongst persons who are automated out of jobs and who have relatively low degree of skill. The demand, on the other hand, for persons with a high degree of skill and persons with a high degree of education continues to be a shorty. To talk about this and other problems of the college graduate these days, I've asked Mr. Earl Kubasek, who is a director of alumni relations and placement for the Illinois Institute of Technology to join me and consider the problem not only of our graduates, but the problem of college graduates generally within your office yesterday or in the morning I dropped by and the place looked like Grand Central Station where people were coming in for interviews. Can you tell us something about the

situation as far as our students graduating at the present? Certainly, I haven't trouble finding jobs, like. No, they certainly aren't having trouble finding jobs now, nor really have they had in the last eight or ten years. It's been quite a revolutionary growth in the demand for college graduates, not only at Illinois Tech, but at the College of University across the country. And at Grand Central Station, the approach that you refer to, it's quite true. We have seven companies a day for two and a half months of class, which gives us between five hundred and five hundred and fifty companies whose representatives travel thousands of miles to sit down and talk with the young man or a young woman about their future with a company. That's quite a different situation than we do in our graduated, wasn't it? I find myself often reflecting on that, but holding my tongue because if you

have a son or daughter, you know what I mean about talking to a younger person about an activity they could never remember at all. You know, I have a very difficult time getting my students to understand what life was like and a great discussion, but this seems to be an unusually large number of job opportunities. How do you grow about it, does each graduating senior come to your office and get to put out himself on a list of interviews and how did that work? Well, actually, the system is rather typical. The graduating seniors are invited to take part in placement. They file the necessary credentials that every company would want to know about a man. The companies are scheduled a year in advance, which makes it sometimes a little difficult on a small organization or a new organization. The undergraduates come into the office. We have complete

information on the organizations and they come in and they sign up the same as you would make an appointment for a doctor or a dentist. The company representative comes in, he receives a complete set of credentials on the graduate and the interview is personal between the representative and the graduate. And as I say, this is rather a typical scene that you would find on a well -organized campus. One of the most public signs to shortages, manpower shortages, of course, has been in engineering. What is the first place, I think it's important to point out that Illinois take is not merely an engineering school, we have a sizable number of graduates and a number of other fields and the natural sciences and the social sciences. Is the concentration of placement opportunities greater for the engineer than it is for the non -engineering graduate, like the person graduating in business economics? Well, I would say that, of course, the demands for engineering and science graduates

is almost phenomenal. But this in no -wise goes to work and reflects a shortage for the professional personnel in the liberal arts or the other fields that you spoke about because the demands in these areas by industry far exceeds really the supply. So in our particular case, it is very true that we not only have engineering and science, but we have a very superior department in the liberal arts. In fact, being a graduate engineer, I might point out to you that the engineering curricula has changed rather remarkably to include a very high amount of the liberal arts. And this is definitely to the good and accounts for a fine engineering program. I was wondering about the

problem of the student when he's graduated and he's in a job. Do we keep track of him? I know if you're a director of alumni relations as well. And try to keep track of our people after they graduated. We just cut them a drift. I am afraid that every alumni relations officer has the same problem that I have sometimes a feeling on the part of a graduate that we use an espionage system to keep track of them. Quite truthfully, we do. We keep very close track of them for numerous reasons, first of all, obviously, to keep up their interest in the institution, but also to be of very material assistance to them should they have the occasion to seek relocation. How many students do you have any estimate on this who followed our alumni? In a course of a career, how many times does the average man change jobs? Well,

the studies that have been made by professional societies and by industry itself and also by our office seems to indicate that within the last 10 years, the young graduate has had an average of three job changes within the first five years. Now, sometimes this means they change within the organization and unfortunately, it also means a change from job to job. The economics are such that this can be done without too much difficulty. It poses a serious problem to industry because mortality is a very costly thing. To the young man or to the young woman, it doesn't hurt them too much because in most cases, the change from job to job means an increase financially. Some companies maintain rather elaborate in

-service training programs for people that they select, don't they? I was thinking of IBM and organizations like that, where their investment in a man in the first two or three years of his working life with them is considerable amount, isn't it? Well, that is what a well -oriented, well -advised graduate will look for is a company whose interest goes beyond the very material. How much can be turned out in a day? I know this to be very true of our people. We are constantly counseling, look for the company who is offering you the advantage of advancing yourself individually, which of course is going to pay off to the company. There is a very sizable percentage of American industry who has come to realize that what you say in training program is an invaluable asset because it's going to not only cut down this factor of mortality,

but it is also going to provide them with a better insight into the individual for future events, and that's how industry grows. I'd like to have your coming on the problem of continuing education. I think it's becoming increasingly true that when a person graduates from college and goes into a lower -enchantment job, it probably takes further training if he's to advance up the promotional ladder, doesn't it? Is that part of the explanation for night schools like our Illinois Tech? I've forgotten what our night school enrollment is, but it's larger than the day school enrollment. It always has been when I was an undergraduate at Old Armor, which was one of the founding institutions, this was true, and this matter of the night school education. Of course, in our case, it is not vocational education, it is really a degree program, and again, coming back to industry, I would hazard a guess that of the companies we are dealing with, and we're dealing with a wide spectrum,

that at least half, if not three -quarters of those companies, are offering to the graduate coming with them, the opportunity to further themselves by additional training, and this is definitely snapped up by the people. I don't mean that they come with the company this year, and immediately, they start them to night school, paying part or all with their training. There's naturally a training program sort of a breaking period, but for the capable, qualified people, this is generally being offered by industry, and the wide graduate will take advantage of it. A few weeks ago, or months ago, I guess it is now, on this program, I had Dr. Bernard James from the University of Chicago, who runs an executive development program out there, and Dr. James was pointing out that companies now, companies and government as well, are encouraging people to go either encouraging them to go back to school by

paying part of their tuition or setting up their own programs, or in some cases, training them, giving them broadening education that's quite different from vocational training in the usual sense, not how to do a particular job. Some of them are even going to Florence to sending them back to great books programs, and all sorts of things, which will give them a broader perspective, so they see the world in a different light. I suppose one of the, this partly of the drive for night school education of all sorts is a result of the increased leisure time that people have. I noticed I was down the other night at the YMCA College that runs downtown, and they have the strangest collection of courses that they offered down there, all the way from flower arranging to foreign languages to strictly cultural subjects. I suppose that this will become a part and parcel of advancement. Do

you notice that an engineer, when he graduates, let's say, or a scientist when he graduates, is, if he's going to rise in the ranks through the management hierarchy, he has to acquire certain other kind of skills, and then his technical ones, doesn't he? He does, but I would question that he would go, perhaps as far afield as some of the things that you mentioned, you have to consider this. Both business and industry is fast becoming a very sophisticated occupation. This requires a considerable advancement in knowledge, perhaps not too afar afield, the horseback riding and so forth, but definitely in the ability to manage people, as well as do the job better. Therefore, they will go to an evening program, like Illinois Tech,

perhaps they will take technical subjects, perhaps they will take advanced business training subjects. These things are all going to be part and parcel of advancing them, and while it is true, there's a certain amount of leisure time. I question that a large percentage of people of this caliber, or the professional caliber, the college graduate, is using his leisure time, I mean to take extraneous matter, and this is not in a derogatory sense that I say this at all. Well, I would understand that a large part of the people taking these, the kind of programs, I was referring to the William C .A. College, are doing it for different reasons. For pleasure, for whatever reason. But this, I think, is this matter of, for instance, that Illinois Tech, we have a very substantial number of people engaged in the graduate program. Yeah, that is becoming an increasing problem, too, isn't it? That

the undergraduate baccalaureate degree, or is no longer sufficient in many cases. The college graduates are coming so common with the number in the world that having a college degree is not the status symbol that it was, let's say at the turn of the century, and when less than 5 % of the high school graduates went on to college, I suppose also the enormous complication of our world, the specialization is driving the graduate school ahead, and so we get more and more people engaged in actual graduate degree programs, I believe. I think that I remember it rightly, our graduate school has increased in a moment, rather substantially in the way. And consistently, and this is reflected in the recruitment personnel by industry, a very, very sizable number of the companies recruiting are looking not only for the BS degree personnel, but also for the master and doctorate.

And some of these organizations, particularly in the engineering and scientific fields, have gone to work and made their graduate programs a very integral part of their recruiting to the extent of recruiting exclusively in this particular area. Well, this makes it very difficult for the colleges and universities, because it's such a considered degree only, I think, 9 ,000 PhDs a year or something like that in the competitions where those PhDs must be enormous, and the universities are hard put to compete in the market with industry and government, which can pay a higher salary, at least, if they can't offer some of the other fringe benefits. Well, this is a point of concern to many of the well -founded companies in industry, this shortage of personnel, true they are in

competition, and the salaries that they are offering are, well shall we say, considerally, love what a college university usually can offer. And they are frankly concerned because they would be drying up their source if they take these people. Of course, it probably has only been resolved to a very small extent in foundation grants to a man who will or a woman, who will go into the academic career as a teacher, and further in his education, and this is fine. But it doesn't, we still need to expand our graduates' business approach much more than we are. Tremendously, so if industry could even get a fraction of the part of the MS and PhD candidates, they would be looking for, they'd be happy. What about women? We also would have pointed out here that some people seem to

think that we are a men's school, or not. They have its substantial contingent, though. Very bright. Very bright, too. What about our girls? Not only our girls, but what about the problem? Let's get at it for a more general sense. What about the situation as far as women are concerned? A third of the women in the United States, I think I saw some liberal labor statistics, big years are in the workforce, at one time or another. When a girl graduates from college, however, she's normally within two or three years gets married and begins to raise a family which takes her out of the job market. What success are you having in place in women? What are your observations on the situation generally? Well, so far as the girl graduating from college or university is concerned, they probably go into three main areas, general business, secretarial, or something closely

akin there, too. It might be interesting to note that next year, as an example, the companies who are specifically in the area of recruiting the woman graduate is increasing their demands again. The place of the woman in business has always been a difficult question to, as they in this respect, you bring out the fact that they will get married. This is quite true. The company has to more or less shore itself up against this sort of thing. But it has been my impression from the people that we are dealing with. Only rarely do we have the good fortune to have a woman engineer graduate. The young ladies in the liberal arts part of our program are not finding it too difficult to locate themselves, probably because we have such a wide array of companies. This, of course,

presents a problem to a small liberal arts college who is away from the general swim is a matter of a crafting industry. We are able to do this, and most of the big college universities are able to do this. The women graduate's do pose a kind of a special problem. There is another question that I was often thought about. Maybe from your vantage point, you'd have some observations to make on it. I was noticing in these figures that people are always batting around in comparison with technical engineering graduate Russia, far ahead of the United States. Another thing I noticed about it is that in Russia, the percentage of women that go into these fields is much higher. To what you attribute to the fact that we only get occasionally a girl engineer, is it a prejudice in society or why it isn't? Well, yes, they are capable, and as I indicated before, when the young

ladies graduate, I have no problem in placing them. Of course, this is one thing that always comes up, and that is that a young woman is generally not as mobile as a man. Can she leave her family? Go somewhere else. This always presents a problem to them. Those that can do that, of course, are easily placed. The reason for women, perhaps not going into engineering or science to the same extent that they go into these other areas, is sort of a poser to me, perhaps it falls back on the old feminine philosophies that they don't want to show the boys up, because we know they're certainly capable of it. I'm sure they are. I think there's a cultural heritage of the United States. We also have a stereotype of the engineers, the men and putties, exploring the Andes, which is pretty far

fetched these days, but it does attract certain adventurous souls, I suppose, particularly in the civil engineering. But it would seem to me that there ought to be some kind of a concerted effort on the part of the Americans, educational institutions, and government, and others to attract women into these vocations, because it would help solve the shortage. Well, you have the professional societies, that is, the women engineers who are living exponents of the fact that they are not only capable, but can achieve a good many things. I would like to see definitely more women go into the field of engineering who are capable of, shall we say, assuming the task. There are many areas in business where, quite frankly, they are not at home

on the shop floor, this can present problems to them, but there are untold numbers of other areas in engineering, which would not in any way cause any concern to them, and I think they are smart enough that they certainly wouldn't seemingly get into conflict with their male cohorts. Well, certainly, that's one area where we ought to be active. I think it would improve the atmosphere around the campus if the grain of proportion of our students were female, that at least would improve the boy wearing a barrel. I'd like to ask you another question of what what kind of salaries are graduates getting now? What is the salary level they're starting out at? Well, this year in the engineering field with all disciplines, and I'm speaking of the various engineering disciplines, I would anticipate that the average starting salary across the country considering

all these locations will be in the magnitude of between 560 and 565 a month, and that is for a young graduate coming out with the limited experience that can be gained through summer and part -time work. Those people who are in the liberal areas, accountants will probably come next so far as financial return is concerned, and that will probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe 490. Then you will have the sales in the liberal arts college, which will be somewhere in the neighborhood of perhaps 475, and the liberal arts graduate, which of course takes in a wide array, will be somewhere in the neighborhood of maybe 425, 430. Interestingly enough, in our liberal arts area, we know we have this very fine

program in business administration, and with the amount of mathematical background and so forth, these people, while we call them liberal arts, actually in business for business management, I would believe that their salary level is going to be around 475 as against the general liberal arts of 440. Well, I think that we do require more mathematics from our students, and then is generally required. Also, I would say it's some pride that I think the caliber of our student is high. One thing I've noticed in the last five years in teaching at Illinois Tech, that there seems to be a steady increase in the caliber of my freshman every year. Are we getting students from what's causing this? Well, number one, I think this, our admissions

office and staff has been doing a superb job in the matter of recruiting the superior type student. The institute itself has come to be recognized for its curriculum and its staff. It is, of course, a private institution, and there is a great deal of effort spent in the matter of testing and aptitudes. These are not prohibitive at all, but it does go to work and attract the kind of students you're talking about, and this is reflected again just the other day, two new companies who were recruiting for the first time were remarking about the quality of the people that they saw on the interviewing schedule, and I hesitate to say this because sometimes these things get rooted about about the company who will hire the whole graduating class, but in this case, this one man remarked about the fact that he saw six men, and he would be very happy to offer six jobs,

one to each one of them. But this quality has been reflected over and over again by the people who are recruiting, and of course, this is all to the good because these people are looking at it from the outside. I think there's another fact here that we should mention, and that is that we have a sort of a no -nonsense approach to education around. We tend to be a country club and the students will work like dogs, and we work them awfully hard, sometimes I think we push too much at home. Well, I hope that the impression wouldn't get around, but it is too much of this sort of thing, because there is an area, if you don't. Yes, they do get some time to relax, but I think that the general atmosphere in Illinois tank is one of diligence and hard work and reward for hard work. We don't have a football team. No, and these people coming there expect to apply themselves, and they do. I believe that. I can never get over how much work it can then will actually do, and how much the professors will compete for their

student time. I think all of these things add up to make a total education. Well, I want to thank you very much, Mr. Kubasek, for coming along and telling us something about engineering and other graduates from IIT, as well as your general observation. Thank you. Thank you.