Connecting the Community; 2640; The Future of Higher Education

the pay to play at haiti's interconnect in the community and ron woods and the summer of two thousand five the us department of education under the leadership of secretary margaret spellings establish a commission on the future of higher education the members of the commission comprised of high profile educators corporate executives and education advocates had the daunting task of looking at the effectiveness of higher education around such issues as accessibility affordability accountability and quality the results can be summed up in the following statement from the report our

year long examination of the challenges facing higher education has brought us to the uneasy conclusion that the sectors pass attainments have let our nation to un war to complacency about its future is the report much ado about nothing or has higher education become complacent answering that question and others are guess representing education and we invite you to join us in the discussion with your questions by calling for aid for twelve twenty three with us in the studio tonight are the president of the university of west florida doctor john kavanagh i'm farley is program director for equal opportunity in equity for the locals the county school district and larry brown and the director of government relations for pensacola junior college i would like to thank you all gentlemen for joining us and done has higher education become complacent i think robin and in many respects the report got it right we have taken for granted for a long time that we're the best in the world and nobody should question

what we do or how we do it i think that that over the last decade or so we've come to the conclusion in the united states that we may not be the best in the world and everything anymore i think that the time that the timing of this report is very critical and there are number of a very good point in her that we detect heart and lauren to talk about the range of that larry page a saint at what a gas into the report well we think it's likely to be i think we're weak these reports of valuable from time to time it's good to do something like this and take a look at yourself and see where you are in even if you don't agree with everything in the report i think things like this spur us to think about where we are where we're going and there's a very valid points ardent of representing k twelve this is a huge report that specifically says that there is an expectation gap between what students are learning k through twelve and then what that colleges are expecting how this okaloosa see the report

a lot of these i think the report is very timely or the thing you do to get a new superintendent soon and now for that is alexis did it and she ran on a campaign that she can address that issue i shall we kill you lookin at higher education else will have to look at what's happening k through twelve specifically like a third grader got to third grade those key areas will put the pair for higher education so you're saying taken further back than just write out of the secondary education the ninth of june twelfth for it so is there a gap between what students are learning and high school and then what colleges are expecting them to learn the report talks about that going to get into the specifics but john is there i've got it right on the on the head by saying it what happens early on really sets the foundation we talk a lot about reading but the fact is if you don't have a really early on you're not going to be prepared

for college we're on a tiny go to college and that becomes a much more difficult issue the two address so i think that if we in that in the post secondary level of education really what it's yours about italy some of the things in the report we need to partner up with the kids while sector and to do so in a very meaningful way from the beginning and i think that that would be one thing that we could come away from this report with a much stronger relationship with a coin toss and the reporters and tidal a test of leadership so and at what level this is a leadership or what level with his leadership being tested in such as national or what i think it's across the board and i think it's gonna take college presidents university presidents superintendents of schools all agreeing that we all need to work together we can't make assumptions about while the kids fault issues the consoles fall it's everybody's problem and and from where

were we said in your city of we'll take that on as something that we need to do then we can't expect the stairs to come in prepared for not want to go in in part with the kids will suffer reporters ahead of others innovation in this respect and then governor jeb bush will be like that was a lot for the last eight years has promoted what he called a seamless education system except for a bump in the road at the board of governors a few other things we are now looking at the legislature were now looking at education really pre k through graduate school and trying to make sure that there is some sing sing's connectivity and community colleges where we're stuck with teaching remedial courses which is not only the students who did one of the things when they're in high school it's also returning adults and if i went back to college and i think senator edward kennedy at one of his responses said that some ecologists are becoming remediation facility and so on and then that you'll sometimes it brings us in a bad light but what it really says is we need help from k

twelve to get the students through the community college and on to the university and for that we really had a head start on that because that's been governor bush's philosophy for the last day ok so let's let's get into the report lets talk about force excessive built in where in photographic up the commission said that we propose to dramatically expand college participation and success by outline ways in which post secondary institutions k through twelve school systems and state policy makers can work together to create a seamless pathway between high school and college exactly what you were talking about they're so here you have this huge expectation gap who is to close that gap of responsibility are now set to close the gap well i i agree with their what the president has said i think of all those working together you just gave mortgages conferences mean i'd agree with you serious a governor bush has done and iran his leadership mondays is responsible for arcade to twenty five k through twelve when we have our equity congress now that colleges are included and we talk about

solutions they recognize of that just can't be one sided other side it's a team effort and one of the things that the report talks about is is accessibility for students coming from low income families and minority students than in fact graduating at a rate that is not higher than a white student so is that something that the florida department of education is looking at that's something we consistently address in fact every year by thirty july report to state what are we doing to close that gap for example we look at the eighth grade and we look at what students are taking pre algebra that's a good indicator for us those are taken out of an eighth grade could be a factory space of minorities either going to leave her on the line and they are what's the pre requisites or taken out of or in the ninth grade how does that impact you a freshman coming if the sportsmen does or does not or does it does not do well well certainly if this tune is not leaving high school with the requisite

units in and records of background on they're not gonna project success in university in and then as was larry pointed out they're all close relation issues that have the combination want to themselves but i also a pickup on the dc most kids juanita system i think it works better in florida anywhere i've i've seen and certainly the relationships between your season kick out is better than anywhere else and fact that we can partner and i'd have one of our faculty for example teach in one of the high schools local was a school district to develop a pipeline entered into the dress those expectations is great but to get to your point on accessibility if we don't do something about providing the financial wherewithal particularly to it to low income families that were not going to be able to do to close that education gap we can do a terrific job in the k twelve but if we don't address the financial issues on on education beyond that that's where we're going to have continued problem and that's one of the things that the report addresses of need based financial aid because no

matter how good we do they're always going to be a group of people and it's certainly not racist more economics is always going to be a group of people who can't afford whatever their ears and unfortunately for her while we do good in some areas rents thirty third in the in the nation in the amount of need based financial aid we make available and that's one of our shortcomings on that suggestion if you look at the gentle a particular that the poverty rates in the panhandle are mercifully higher than they are on average and the rest of the state and so we have an acute need in the panhandle for that need based financial aid to address the idea for billions disability issues an example of that is dade county escambia county or two of the poorest counties in the state affording dade county is now the mayans in miami is miami to the poorest counties in the state we also have the lowest percentage of citizens who had anything beyond a high school degree of many to count is the state so you're saying brand your economic status because your chance to then gradually counseling and college sophomore student has no chance

than all placenta makes good grades you'll get a bright futures and that will cover some other so they have a chance but a lot of her students are not be that four points to a lot of those posters of opportunities to do lots of things that every student at sea in the state you don't make up the bulk of the students in an older systems that students often face is dire financial need and it's not just tuition and fees its textbooks its gasoline it's the than the devil part time jobs in the dead child care your bows those things simply are not covered well enough in florida to make a real positive impact and the report talks about the need for majority based financially up a n n going back to the incentives for need based they're also the report also talks about post secondary institutions and being incentivized to except under sourced and so then the money is not going to the state the money is going to the institution out what's the balance they're willing to be to colleges were open door so any anybody who can pass the ctbt the college

placement this agency by the time you get to the sophomore leveling a lot of universities there are there some hoops you have to jump and in in part depends upon what what models you look at initially of course you write that the money has gone to the institution colorado's once they kiss on an experiment and they're giving the money to the student to cash in it whatever institution would go to say it happened in colorado and you know it has to be a contest that's for in state is that resonance that would go down for that the low tuitions the resident rights but one of things that that that dawes is that it didn't change is that the whole notion of what evidence do you need to show is an institution that you're actually doing the right thing and doing things you say that you're going to just have learned so one of things that you know in terms of the different models of the report talks about is not only addressing any from the base they like wires talking about whether it's so complicated the report also talks about the fact that we need to simplify the

financial aid process because you almost need a phd in order to figure out the form and you know i kind of thing because as for more complicated than your taxes are in and we're all its governing going to that that's the next point going to one of his words show some real quick and that is to spell out a study about poverty and you know party do affect student at the same time has been other studies that show that poor whites are outperforming middle class blacks which tells me there needs to be more courageous conversation about race and cultural sensitivity and lisette is dressed in a sensibility that the report is trying to achieve so even with race and there will still be a gap that was ok let's jump over into costs and affordability the commission says we propose a focus program a cost cutting and productivity improvements and us post secondary institutions and let's be clear we're talking about postsecondary it's not just a traditional four year college of the two year this also talks about her weird georgetown in

laughlin technical and okaloosa centers in and things like that so jon callas to issue is up in its outpacing inflation so who can afford college now well robin and the thing that i'm very concerned about is that the middle class in particular and in those below are going have an increasingly difficult time if we don't get control around both the cost and in the price and i make a distinction between the two because for an in state resident florida for example you know we talk about the cost of college in in colloquial terms what we generally refer to is how much does the family have to write a check for and if you're against a resident go to a state institution gets a certain percentage of the true cost of educating that student the state that provides the rest of the money so many eye out for it the university if it cost ten thousand dollars for a total cost of the family has to write a check for three thousand dollars maybe as the state's remaining seven towers the state would then provide there are seven thousand dollars subsidy that's the

way that on paper that that works what we have to get to their mind is two things in the education business and it's a labor intensive enterprises and we talk a lot in a keto sector by class size and how many faculty or for students and all and the same is more or less true in nj cause isn't in universities the lion's share of that of the cost of education it is the dream of the people who did it and yet for us to get our arms around that we're going to have to take a hard look at at some assumptions that we make about in and report talks about annuities and other kinds of things and one of the other cost drivers so sometimes appear in corporate america it's it's often said that the large expanses salary and the college setting its assigned place else does paying for professors annual salary increases and and other amenities for one k plan on continuing sour nineteen eighty five percent of our total budget ghost

and most of their faculty and among other things i think that it's true about the salary one thing i believe is our control and let my daughter is just joined the universe of ordinary engineering master's we look at the cost of the book moyers one book in the sixty five dollars if you turn that one book gay and china buy used book girls cars like his old bush used to cause who controls a caf where i mean you're right but but whose selecting that i have the facts are cars like in the textbooks but that the economics of the of the textbooks and what is that is the real driver of that price this is in part that are i should say a large part of that that the textbook company needs to recoup

the expense of prison the board of at the for point for sale because in the way that the copyright law works is when that ball gets resold neither that the company nor the author get any royalties so that if that will get sold to three times only the first for sale does the company getting one and so that is an enormous driver of the other costs textbooks ann and i think what what that is has done is add a lot of faculty myself included what we started to do was look for resources that are available for free online does the information change that quickly else that this is an attack and aren't as his daughter needs to buy a book every year later the same they've always been so you know you may not always made it a new shakespeare textbook every three years if you're teaching nursery where there may be changes rapidly critiquing computer science and the rig changes rapidly you're the faculty members and their defense they're not just you again text books because they wanted their changing textbooks to keep the pace of changing technology which is one of

the things a report says we need to do better yourself but there is legislation and they in the legislature this year to provide a sales tax exemption on textbooks which won that much but you know in your heart about that that's what she's paying for cells that scientists will sell in the balance this and maybe talk to students to go to the classes to using the suspense of books and find out how much the class actually used in the book that some professors i even interviewed debbie have that i'm familiar with the only white people there the news i'm chris and thomas in a book that they use and i know the students phil a movement that they take a class or they'll use a certain portion of the book but yet they paid this humongous amount of money so i think there's something in his paycheck him outside and i understand me tuition because i'm into school because of my salary as large i think we can look at other ways that doesn't deter students burdened by so how do you

win in the k through twelve system encourages student to spend ten to fifteen thousand dollars for an education that may or may not lend them a job that would give them return on investment what they want they said we've done and the locals account is not to look at every student is college student per se but look into location or really look at inches away the persons act and for example if you were going to college and you want to be a doctor or an engineer was nothing to do and i'll close a county prior to actually leaving school is bringing doctors and engineers in to talk to the people because you don't want people going off on a direction and then later on find out they can do nothing without education as larry the jaycees done some innovative things and in terms of some of their career technical skills or it off of course we're we're all doing that you every everybody is is very turned to the fact that we all have to have programs that lead to employment somewhere down the road

we would talk about that for the show it when i was in college my major was philosophy you know i never thought i would be employees of gloucester but i actually got a job out of college and your way will that will all in the desert but these days there's such a critical meeting critical area here you want students to model themselves on architects engineers nurses go somewhere where they can get a job that are needed in the economy something that's relevant to occupational opportunities after college he was told that we've got a call left then you have a call our panelists i am i'm a fan that after an individual graduate from college their education that employees feel have to do training to make them ready other guy though that that the back in and then the colleges on the band that the group that they're getting i'm not well paired and they're not been able

to i guess take them to the court that they need to whether they were willing to do to help the people at the primary date because that may be the most important date the education plot that because we hear that the high school graduate and not really ready for the community college they have been training me college who allegedly trying to show my support for his work on the college was willing to do at the primary stage at the beginning help schools in the state who is what a medical care to make sure that they get healed that they need so that puckett won't move like ok thank you let's lay a panel answered a question sure i think that there are a number of things that that universities can do and in partnership with this couple of us of the things that that we are going i think it's important for us to have to go out and and share with the

careful sector and that the latest nba in on a practice in terms of how students learn ensure that information to go out and do as art was talking about realistic previews for students what he's thinking what kind of course do think you need to take in order to be a doctor or an archaeologist or or an accountant or something of that sort but i think it's also really important for us to have our faculty have experience in a keto sector so that they know what is going on which we talked about before the show about the difference and students from generation to generation good understanding of what we're listening to come from and to partner up with with faculty indicated tall sector were doing that and some schools look was accountable and skinny county and then in addition to that the community outreach efforts that we do in various centers working directly with sweden's tutoring programs and in particular working with those things parents so that they understand

what what the demands on students and in so that they could provide a good morning in violent in the hole and we also were very close with businessmen just ran away all advisory councils and things for almost every program where you're constantly in touch with that business a while things get o'steen students need to learn before they come on the job i think a lot of times the problem with that the color was referring to is more of a cultural transition sometimes and there's actually i'm not no we knew that the job from being a college student in india working their college schedule sometimes been abrupt for student goes into the work world and things are a little bit different but i think we all try to make sure that they're students leave with the skills they need to do the job one thing i think you have we need to consider is exit interviews of the people who get into the workforce and then leave for example you take education is my understanding of the five years we lose a lot of teachers you look at the exit interview some of the teachers to say were not repaired the

classroom management when i really prepared for the students that we're getting today so we take that they can give it back to the colleges and be open minded and say ellis discuss some of this because of the students were in school a good policy to get out of her worldly get reality so i think that's where the frustration and one of the issues has been should there be talk about nixon enemies but should there be assessments when a college student comes out so we're we require them to take they require to take the ac tv's at the medical boards to get in there to get out of college there is no assessment for that quality that there is in florida at the four dollars hasn't started quite recall the academically compact where we have to specify what the learning outcomes are you on it even down to launch an unusual course so that was that was it onto a particular major we now are are at a point where we have to

indicate that student what that what people learn if you will the inevitable major and i also think that are in terms of that the assessments that the notion that you take an s at usc accuser ok in assessing what they cost and let me interrupt you when coloradans asking is cs at necessary to gain entrance into college shirt on the defense bill you know yeah it's ok so we know that we have to have with that the college placement desperately need to know where because we were reading writing then it turns out you know there are large aspects of education the city doesn't touch and i think if you if you think about the fact that is basically you know around grammar and writing in all and math and you come to college in a new study on a particular major if you were simply to re administered the us at on the back end is gonna miss an enormous amount of material that that's that

weren't while you're in college so well then our the outcome may be accountability arts colleges than afraid and the test is not necessarily the accountability measures we are concerned some wads of that the emphasis being put on the afghan intake well because well yeah thats thats now some problems without some ways this almost seems to be an awful lot of effort went into teaching for the test and we don't want that to happen in higher education you're one of the things that this village report does is talk that extra testing in college a lot of programs have licensing exam to tribune attorney you go past four minutes not to get out of college not that there's got to be some integrity in the classroom instructor is great we're down to about a minute islamic assets final question only read the report for the elizabeth arden twenty and the next well i learned it back with my team leader on insulin to be superintendent and i talk to her prior to coming here

and we're at the moment in players' union address larry's what you're going to continue doing what we're doing you know frankly i think a lot of the things in this report are almost right out of the community college philosophy textbook case i think we're going to continue moving down the outcomes assessment we're going continue working on on issues of it's a civilian affordability and and do whatever we can to lowering costs well we are out of time a thank you gentleman for janet joining us it's all the time and we appreciate you being with us paul as we appreciate your questions talk to john kavanagh president of the university of west florida arden farley program director for equal opportunity equity for the okaloosa county school district and larry bracken director of government relations for pensacola junior college would appreciate you being with us and i will see you next week the pay

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