Wichita Mayor '89

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Thank you, Mr. Bell. We'll begin our questioning with Gardner Selby directing a question to Mr. Knight. Mr. Knight, you have made light in this campaign of John Bell's lifestyle, his fur coat, his Jaguar. You also have belittled his understanding of the role of man. Is your treatment of Mr. Bell during this campaign, which he is called offensive? For example, the way you relate to other elected officials who differ with you? No, I think that I wouldn't agree, first of all, with the way you've characterized it. When I was talking about Mr. Bell, I was talking in a vein that was light-hearted. I hope that I don't take myself so seriously, or that I'm not so arrogant, that I can't laugh at myself if somebody is making some kind of light-hearted comment. No, I have not tried in any way to disparage Mr. Bell personally. But the question was, is this an example of the way you treat other elected officials? Well, you cover City Hall. It's my intent, and I believe that I do extend people courtesy, attention, and consideration.

If they have matters before the City Council, or if they have matters before the City of Wichita. Mr. Bell, would you care to rebut? I think all I'll say, Dale, is. Gardener was present the night this took place, and if he phrased the question that way, I guess we both saw it the same way. Very good. Mike Taylor, a question for Mr. Bell. Mr. Bell, one of the things you've pointed out in your campaign is that you would bring a change in leadership at City Hall. We've heard you talk about drugs as an example of being an issue that you would put on your priority list. But what specifically on your agenda do you have as your first program, or your first two or three programs, that you as mayor would put your stamp on and try to shepherd through the process and get approved by the council? You're saying besides drugs.

Well, as I have said several times, Mike, I think the first thing you do is get your own house in order. And I would want to be sure that I had built the proper starting relationship. I know relationships take a long time, but with the other council members. And then as I have said several times, I would walk across the street to visit with the county. I think many of our problems are interrelated. There's nothing we're in by ourselves. And we need these good working relationships. And then the next step is the county delegation and the state level that is also very, very important. Is there a specific program or proposal that you will bring to the council? Well, probably the first proposal I will bring to the council will be in connection with the drug situation. But where mayor came and appointed a task force, I want to see what they say. I have visited with several people that are authorities in the area. I have some ideas, but I want to see what the task force says first, because they were charged with this.

And I appreciate mayor came in doing this. And I don't want to preempt anything that they may bring to the council. Very good, Mr. Knight. I've been part of the difficulty in conducting a campaign where we try to deal in specifics. Generally what we get is a very general treatment of a specific question. I would think that if someone is dissatisfied with the direction of the city and has been as critical as Mr. Bell that he would certainly by now have some notions specifically as to what he would like to do. Very good. Tony Cox, a question from Mr. Knight. Yes. In your decade or so on the council in three terms as mayor, we've seen a further deterioration of downtown and a lack of action on major projects such as the Kellogg improvements. And we've seen an overall lack of growth.

What if anything would you do differently this time around in terms of economic development initiatives? Three or four questions. Let me just try and respond by saying, Tony, that this city has had really significant growth in terms of job creation. In 1987 there were 30,000 jobs created in this state, 42% of them were in Wichita. Last year there were 50,000 jobs created in this state and I would assume it was 30 or 40% in Wichita. That's dramatic job creation. The population of Wichita is growing. For the first time in the history of this city we have 300,000 people. I believe that again we have a good plan what we need now is we need to experience to roll up our sleeves and implement the plan. Would you change your approach at all though and some of your critics have suggested that you're too conservative in terms of government spending and abatements and those kind of things? Well I guess I get a little confused just of which way I go. On the one hand I'm criticized for not being conservative enough.

There's an ad on TV about all the taxes that I've raised whereas in fact I voted against six out of eight budgets before the current city manager came. I believe that the final test, the acid test is what kind of return will the taxpayers get on their participation in projects and I always assess things that way. If I think there's a good return I'll consider it very carefully. Mr. Bell? Well Bob has mentioned several times in other debates that he basically approves of IRBs just for the basic industries. I think we have to look further than that. The things I have read and studied. The biggest growth is in the service industries and such has best Western and organizations such as that. I think we have to take that into consideration. These are good additions to our community too and sorry ran out of time. Okay we'll take the first of our questions between the candidates. Mr. Knight, do you have a question for Mr. Bell?

John if you had a close friend, a good client of security abstract and they owned a sufficient acreage in Southwest Wichita and they wanted to sell it to a correctional facility. And the neighborhood was against it. How would you handle that? I would do nothing that would destroy the value of a neighborhood. I have said before I do not see destroying neighborhoods the property value or any of those things Bob. The fact that I was acquainted with somebody like that would not affect my vote. We'll give you another opportunity later. Let's continue with the rotation from the reporters, Gardiner a question for Mr. Bell. Maybe we can get to some specifics now. You said once during the campaign that you would ask the council once you elected mayor to repeal the addition of a seventh member. That's what's now planned for after the election tomorrow. What argument or arguments will you use to persuade as many as four members of the current council to change their minds and repeal that seventh member?

Well Gardiner the way I feel about it that was part of the one of the proposals that we had floating around that the voters turned down was a council person at large. And I think because it wasn't included in the package that passed I think it is a mistake. I know we could have some problems with tie votes. But the concern as I understood it for many of them was it would be possible to have a mayor, a councilman and the one at large all from the same district. And this was a worry to a lot of the people in this community. And I just feel to keep faith with them and I have run into a lot of them that are still upset about it. What the council will do I could not tell you but I will ask it. How strong will you push it to show your leadership? Well I will bring it up I will talk to the council people and we will see what happens.

Mr. Knight? I voted against as you recall adding another member and the reason being is that I thought that that should be a decision that should reside with the collective wisdom of the community. And they didn't have that opportunity and that is not what they voted on. So I voted against adding another member. Okay Mike Taylor a question for Mr. Knight. Mr. Knight we have seen examples in other cities Des Moines being one of them where if downtown is to turn around and revitalize private dollars are really the thrust behind that government can help but private developers really have to do it. Do you see yourself as having the cloud and influence with some of which it was big developers to be able to go to them personally and say you need to invest and put your money in this building downtown. If you have that cloud do you see yourself in that role as mayor? Well I think first of all you have to be able to make economic sense out of it.

If you're talking about significant investment of someone's resources that is generally not done on a friendship basis it has to make economic sense. I think the city has an outstanding plan in a vision for its downtown. I think more and more people are starting to be attracted to that vision. I believe you're going to see private money come into the downtown area. Very good. Well I'm very excited about the downtown plan and I'm very excited about Jack DeBoer being willing to take over when Sheldon had to step aside. I have worked with Jack in the past we worked together at Chamber. We've had a lot of contact over the years and I know how exciting he is to work with what a creative person he is and all the avenues he has used in the past to get this sort of thing done. Tony Cox, a question for Mr. Bell.

Mr. Bell considering the tremendous capital needs facing the city including the road projects and public subsidy of downtown development is a tax increase inevitable and what do you support a tax increase? Tony, we have a budget set for two years. I do realize at the end of a year changes could be made but I just don't think with the reappraisal, the classification, all of the problems that are going on right now. It's very confusing for the taxpayer and even after they know what the mill levy is and what their taxes are going to be. I think we're going to have a lot to work through with hearings, a lot of small businesses are in real binds, some of the older neighborhoods, the taxes on their homes are going up. I think we're going to have to hold off. I don't believe the people can handle any more for the next couple of years. Mr. Knight, we're getting a lot more mileage today out of taxpayer dollars. First of all there's more efficiencies and economies at the city of Wichita. There are fewer full time employees locally funded at the city of Wichita today than it was 10 years ago. The city has not been stronger financially than it is today, certainly in the last 10 years that I've been there. One of the benefits of being strong financially is that you can borrow money at a lower cost. The city of Wichita is selling its debt in the national markets at the equivalent of a AAA rate which saves money for taxpayers.

It's time for our next candidate question. Mr. Bell, would you have a question for Mr. Knight? Yes, Bob, in one of our earlier debates, you said that our county delegation should have a system of rewards and penalties. If they didn't function properly, they should look for other work. Is this the way you approach getting along with this delegation and working with them? Let me go through it one more time with you, John. Apparently you haven't been listening. What I was saying is that this city has a plan. It's an outstanding plan. It represents the collective wisdom of this community, not just the city of Wichita. It's municipal government. It's the county, the city, the chamber, the school board, the university, all the various interest groups in this community. We have a plan. I believe, unless there's an extremely compelling reason, you, me, people at the state ought to be solidly behind that plan. It only makes good sense. Very good. Gardner Selby, a question for Mr. Knight. I'm not sure that answer responded to that question, but my question to you sort of goes along the same lines. As Mr. Bell pointed out during the campaign, you have had no announced supporters who worked with you on past city councils.

One of them told me at one point during the campaign, and we reported in the Eagle Beacon that you were vicious at times. Last spring, you were denied your second year as mayor by three to two voters of the council. How relevant is that when voters go to the polls tomorrow? And on top of that, how specifically would you lead a council whose members would include those who voted to replace you last year? First of all, your information is wrong, Gardner. I have Kathleen Amiston on my campaign committee. And if you had checked, you would have found out not only was she on the city council or the city commission which he served a very short time as mayor. A very close friend and very strong supporter. I believe that on the city council bench, my first responsibility is to look out for the public good, the public interest. I would hope that friendships would flow from that, but that's not my top priority. My top priority is to all the citizens in this community who elected me to look out for the public interest.

And so long as I am in public service, that will be my top priority. I would only ask you to look at the major legislative, the major kinds of programs that have been adopted at the city level. In the last ten years, and you'll generally find my footprints. So you're saying that ability to get along is not relevant tomorrow? I think I get along. Rebuttal? I had a call from one of the members of the council. He said, John, I know you were present the night we removed Bob from office and you didn't approve of what happened. Now that I've listened to you on the campaign trail and the ways talked to you, I think you know now why we did it. Okay. Mike Taylor, a question from Mr. Bell. Mr. Bell there, some remarks attributed to you about the police and the courtesy or lack thereof with people in writing traffic tickets. A hypothetical situation. You're in the mayor's office and you get a phone call from a citizen who complains about the way they were treated by police.

They were pulled over and given a speeding ticket. How would you handle that given your feeling the police may not be as courteous as they could be? And you have a citizen complaint. What do you as mayor do with that and how do you handle that? Well, I think that it is important how people feel about those things. I think some of the things I said got a little out of whack. I made a comment that the police study said that the council had never said a policy on the style of policing that they wanted in this community. And I had embroidered on that and said this is both for the citizens and guests to our city. I think it includes far more than just the giving of traffic ticket. What I would hope, Mike, is that we would establish some policies in regard to guests to our city that the occasion would never arise. If someone has a complaint, I would certainly want to hear it. And then I would go back through channels and check it out and see what the problem was.

But I have been in cities where they had very gracious policies if, excuse me, run out of time. Rebuttal? Well, I think what the report said is that this department, not only historically, but even now, is one of the top law enforcement departments in the United States. I've served through officers being slain in the line of duty. I know courtesy is important. But as John has mentioned about the drug problem in the city of Wichita, it is a very, very dangerous occupation. And I might also remind you that the reason we changed in 1915 or 1916 to a different form of government is because the mayor then got involved in police work. Tony Cox, a question for candidate Knight. Mr. Knight, despite Mr. Bell's long resume of civic, professional, and government achievements or experience, you've suggested that he's not qualified for mayor and possibly not qualified to run for counsel based on lack of experience. Under your theory, wouldn't all the politicians eventually die off as no one knew was allowed to get in?

Well, I can't remember an instance where a newly elected commissioner or council member was mayor. Typically what you see is you see he or she gaining some experience on the job and understanding the role so they can participate fully in crafting public policy. But it almost is the antithesis of leadership if you have to rely on other people to validate assumptions. I think John would be sorely lacking in terms of being able to lead not knowing or understanding the process as it's sitting better than he does. But in the past, there's been sort of... Tony, let's take a rebuttal to make sure we get... Well, there's mayors elected all over this country every year that have not previously sat on the council or the commission or whatever the governing body is. I don't think that being incumbent is a necessary qualification to be mayor of the city of Wichita. I've run businesses, I've run many organizations.

I know quite a bit about management. I have had experiences that Bob has never had and I can learn. Time is drawing close to an end. Let's see if we can get two more questions between the candidates then. Let's start with Mr. Knight, with a question from Mr. Bell. John, you've criticized the latest two-year budget which reflects less than a 2% increase per year over the last four years. Specifically, what would you have done differently, particularly in light of all the promises you've made to so many different interest groups? Bob, you are mispeaking the situation. I didn't criticize the budget. I said you had voted for a raise in taxes and you did. You've talked no taxes and keeping taxes down and going over and over and over. I merely pointed out you had voted for an increase in taxes and that is true. Your chance to direct a question to Mr. Knight. Make sure we get this in on time.

Bob, you have stated over and over about your feeling on IRBs, on the only the basic industries. You have voted against some 25 projects in which I think 12 of them down town. But coupled with this, you voted against one for Boeing which is basic industry and you voted for one for BRICS which is a retail outlet with a competitor block away. Can you explain this to us? First of all, the Boeing vote was probably eight or nine years ago and it had to do with the level of tax abatement, John. Whether or not we were going to grant 100% tax abatement. It was my judgment at that time because of the declining revenues and the overstated expenditures that the city really wasn't in the financial condition to absorb those kinds of abatements. In terms of BRICS, it occurred at a different time and I've thought that what you've been saying all along is you ought to try to revitalize. I still believe other than a collective community consensus that downtown is important, I would still stick to basic primary industry.

Let's return to our question and rotation. Garden of Selby, a question for candidate Bell. I hope you can respond to this more directly than the question that Bob asked a few minutes ago and that was along these lines, the conflict of interest issue which has come up in the last three weeks or so. Another hypothetical. Let's say a developer requests his owning change that would bring a new development to the East Bank. Although the title company you own is not directly involved in this project. Future projects related to this development could come your way, could come the way of your business. As mayor, would you see this kind of zoning vote as a conflict of interest problem and would you disqualify yourself from those votes? I would certainly talk to the city attorney and if there was any questionable area, I would decline to vote. Now one thing, Gardner, you need to realize is on some major projects, such as you're talking about on the East Bank. Those projects are done on a bid basis and there are seven companies in the city of Wichita where you can obtain the same services that you obtain from my company. And as is done in many situations, if things are done on a bid basis, it makes all the difference in the world.

And if something is good for the city, we have to consider that too. But I will assure you it would be gone over carefully with the city attorney before I participated in a vote. Mr. Knight, you have about 15 seconds to rebut that particular question. John's company is the largest company in the state. He mentions all the other companies combined. They're not as large as he is. John Bell would have the most incredible, consistent, ongoing conflict of interest, probably of anybody in the history of serving on the city council. It's time to go to our closing statements, Mr. Bell. By virtue of our rotation, you will give your 30 seconds close at this point. Well, I truly am concerned about this city. I'm not a politician and I don't always handle the media or am I opponent as well as the season politician does. And I don't always say what's popular, but I don't believe that being a politician is a requirement to be the mayor of the city.

What is required is a knowledge and a concern of the people in this community. I know it's possibilities, and I know they can be achieved. Mr. Knight? John has been a politician in Eastboro. I want to be a mayor who acts as well as reacts, who originates policy, as well as study group and task forces, who masters complicated problems as well as one-page memos. I want to be a mayor in every sense of the word, who responds to a problem, not by hoping a solution will be found, but by seeing and insisting that a solution is found. A mayor who is willing to take responsibility for getting things done, and willing to take the blame if they're not done right, I would very much appreciate your vote tomorrow. Very good. Our time is up. We would like to thank the candidates, John Bell and Bob Knight, and our panel of journalists for participating in tonight's program. For KPTS, I'm Dale Gowder. Good evening. Thank you.

Thank you.