In Our Image: The United States and the Philippines; Interview With Cardinal Jaime Sin

Let's talk first about, you were talking about, let's talk about why you think it was a good thing that the United States colonized the Philippines. Well, of course, during the Spanish time, the Philippines was not progressing so much. There was union of church and state. And then the people were not encouraged to go to school because of the system. The system was somewhat cruel. There was beating on the part of the friars. Then came the Americans and the educational system was improved. And then they started to instill in our hearts the love for freedom and the system of democracy. And so we became very pleased. The people were happy. Even though I would say that the Americans were not able to solve the problems of the Muslims, neither the Spanish soldiers who came to the country. So this problem has been there since time immemorial.

Now, what was it like when you, when you were growing up? Still under the American period. Did you know Americans? Did you know [or] have American school teachers? How about some of your own reminiscences? Did you like the presence of the Americans? Well, of course, I like it so much. And naturally, in those days, things were better. But here comes Quezon. And he was the first president of the commonwealth. We were still under the Americans. And he said, and I quote, "We would prefer to run the country like hell by Filipinos than to run the country like heaven by the Americans." And so that is what happened. And the Americans, after the Second World War... Sorry, I just want to go back a little. How many Americans' school teachers? There were some, but in our school, in the town where I was studying, we have Filipino teachers already who were taught by the Americans.

Did you have American textbooks? Do you remember? [speaker switches to interviewee] All American textbooks. Let me just go back a minute and tell us about the American textbooks and the songs you sang. Oh, well, the songs were very beautiful. We were still singing those songs like beautiful songs like, [singing] "Ladybug, Ladybug. How do you do?" Those are American songs. And we learned those in school. And then the poems of Longfellow, like for example, "All things bright and beautiful. All creatures great and small. All things wise and wonderful. The Lord God made them all." Beautiful. What about history? Did you learn American history or Filipino? Well, of course, it is a combined history. We have the world history. And we have American history there.

But we learn more about our own Filipino culture and Filipino history. Let's talk a little bit about the, during the war, you were then a young man, a teenager during the Japanese occupation. What was it like? What did you do? Well, first of all, I was first year high school in a seminary. I entered the... I'm sorry, I'm sorry, could you go back and say during the Japanese occupation? Yeah, first during the American period. And then when I was in the seminary that was December, then there was already the declaration of war between Japan and the United States. Then we were sent home because the Japanese were bombing every institution. And when I arrived home, immediately we evacuated to a mountain in order to be safe from the attacks of the Japanese. And then we stayed there for four years until the Americans came. When we heard that MacArthur landed in Leyte,

all of us went to town and we were running after the tanks and we say, Uncle Sam, give us chocolate. [laughs] Beautiful. Beautiful. I can still remember that. Give us some more of your impressions of the liberation. [speaker switches to audiovisual operator] Stan can we pause for just a second? Well, let's have some more of your impressions of the Americans arriving, liberation. Well, we have beautiful memories of those days. When MacArthur came, my mother was dying. She was dying of cancer. And then MacArthur landed in Leyte. And the Japanese were all concentrated in Leyte. First of all, because in our place, the Japanese stayed in our house and made it a headquarter. But then they went all to Leyte. But the strategy of General MacArthur was splendid. He landed in so many places.

And so the Japanese did not know what to do. That was the end of them. And less than, I think, one week, the Americans won the war without so much battle. But let's get back to your own personal experiences. Jubilation at the liberation. Jubilation, happiness, joy, that democracy is restored. That is the greatest thing that I... Sometimes we have to stop...we start start again with this jubilation. Also, I wish you would try to analyze for us why the Filipinos worship MacArthur so much. Worship what? [interviewer answers with 'General MacArthur'] Well, you know, that man loves the country. And here gratitude is the greatest virtue. And therefore you cannot talk against MacArthur here. They will stone you. Because that man saved us. Because we know the history that President Roosevelt did not like the American army to come to the Philippines.

And it was MacArthur who insisted. Because he promised this country I shall return. And he did return. Did you ever meet General MacArthur? [coughing, speaker switches to interviewee] I met him when he was... We are all coughing. What can we do? I attended that speech of General MacArthur when he came for the last time. And maybe that was the last speech he delivered here at the Luneta. And many people were crying. Beautiful. I was there. I did not talk to him. But I listened to him. Do you remember anything that he said?

Well, he said the days are already approaching when he said the time of the recall is near. And before I am recalled irrevocably, I should like to see the Philippines, my beloved Philippines. That is very emotional. I have a copy of the speech but it must be in the file. Let me talk to you a little bit about it. And the way the church has changed, the way it's evolved over the time that you have been a priest. Listen in those days, the diplomacy of the church is always to be cooperative with the government. And you can see that this diplomacy is very important. Excuse me, when you begin would you say in what days, in the old days, because you will be speaking alone without his question. We want your statement to be understood in its entirety.

You could just begin again and say what days they were. Well, I would say that when I was in the high school, we were still under the Americans. And I would like to say that it was during those days when the church, of course, were always cooperative with the government. The colonies were under the colonizer and the church was very careful not to offend the colonizer. And at the same time, the church was more or less very quiet when it comes to the injustices of both the colonizers and the colonized. Then the Second Vatican Council came and that was fresh air for the church. [speaker switches to interviewer] I'm sorry, could you stop and go back and give us the year of this Vatican... Well, the second Vatican Council started 1962.

Then I was a young priest by the time. And then it ended by the year 1965. And the implementation started. And here comes the option for the poor. And here comes the change of system, which are very accidental. And making the church attuned to the needs of the time. And indicating to us the signs of the time. And here comes the option for the poor. And so in that particular council, we define the role of a pastor that he is supposed to be a prophet of denunciation and a minister of reconciliation. He should denounce injustices, but he should be a pontifex, pontiff [inaudible], making a bridge, destroying the walls of the vision and encouraging harmony and unity among the people.

Now how did this apply particularly to the Philippines? Well, in the Philippines, we started to encourage what I call critical collaboration. Of course, I would say that this provision in our constitution saying that there should be separation of church and state should be well taken into consideration. But both the church and the state are servicing the same people. And so I should compare the separation of church and state as a railroad track. They are separate, but the separation should not be distant from one another.

Neither can it be so close to one another, then there will be derailment. It should be separate, but that separation should be a critical collaboration. We could decide when there is a need, and we collaborate for the common welfare. So it is so clear to me, this came from the Second Vatican Council documents. Now in the Philippines, in particular, [speaker switches to another interviewer] let's make sure we get some particular instance, some particular issue. Okay, let's talk about some, some specific example in which the church took stand on some issue of social justice, some practical case. Like for example, when there is an injustice, as for example cheating during election time, they said that we should not get involved in politics. I think that is true, but politics is a human activity.

And as a human activity, it has its moral aspect. It is bad for me to go to the pulpit on Sunday, and during the period of election I would tell my people, make the election clean, honest and fair, who would say those things except the priest? However, I should avoid partisan politics, because it is divisive. Because the political function and exercise are the function of the Leyte. And in the Second Vatican Council, it says that it is the primordial duty of the laymen and the laywomen to restore the temporal order. And when we say church, we include the Leyte and the clergy. And the clergy, well, I should say that when democracy and freedom are restored, then we will go to the background, avoiding the limelight, in order that we would not fall into another mistake, which I may call neoclericalism, which will boil down to anti-clericalism. And what are our commitments? Number one, education.

Number two, evangelization, which is total human development. And number three, option for the poor. Now, how do you feel about... Would you just could you just go back a moment? Before we were doing the filming, you were saying how much you thought, how good you thought it was that the Americans came here as colonizers. You said something to the effect, and I don't know what would have happened if they hadn't. Do you remember that? [speaker switches to interviewee] Yeah. Could you say that again? [speaker switches to interviewee] Well, it is providential that we were colonized by Spain, first of all, because Spain placed the most fundamental things in our personality, which is religion. And then it is also providential that Americans came, because progress cannot be only through religion, but also through economic planning. And this is what Americans contributed, a real liberal education.

What is a Filipino they said? Well, a Filipino is a man whose mind is American, and whose heart is Spanish. That is a Filipino. You cannot say that there is a really full-pledged Filipino, because we are all mestizos, and that is what happened to this country. But aren't Filipinos looking for an identity? Where are they going to find it? Well, this is now the identity of the Filipino. A Spanish heart, an American mind. That is the Filipino. Chinese [inaudible]...[speaker switches to interviewee] Well, we are Chinese, like for example myself, my father was a pure Chinese, but we grow up in this atmosphere and in this culture. And so we grow up as Filipinos with this kind of mentality. Beautiful.

We spoke Spanish before, but now we speak English. Everybody understands English, even though our English is not as good as those of America. But I would say that the Spanish language is still spoken. My driver speaks Spanish when he is drunk. Let's go back to the church a bit, not to go back to theology, but how do you feel about certain priests who've become very radical, left-wing priests? Well, this is the effect of so many years of dictatorship. And so we kept quiet during those days because we have to topple the dictatorship. And so these priests tried their best to do something for the sake of democracy, freedom as children of God. And now, after the change of system of government, we have this new democracy now.

I think there is no more need for priests to be in the mountains, in the hills. And so I told them to return back to normal lives and be able to inspire the people to live normally, peacefully. And that is how it should be. But it is hard for these priests because they have been used to this kind of work. So let us give them some chance to, more or less, return back to normal lives. Let's talk a little bit about Marcos and Imelda. My good friends. [speaker switches to interviewer] Talk about this. Cardinal Sin just remember to look...[inaudible] Yeah, I look at his face all the time. [laughter] Would you mention their names? Ferdinand Marcos and Imelda. These are the two people who run this country for 20 years.

At first, they were good but they became so powerful and they forgot about the needs of the people and they became selfish. And that was the end of everything. Every now and then I go to them. They invite me even though they did not like me because all the time I was articulate, talking. Because my duty as pastor is to call their attention to the mistakes that are being committed. One day this is the most funny thing. He invited me for his birthday. That was the last birthday he celebrated in the Philippines and we were at the Luneta. I was celebrating the mass. All the ambassadors were there. And then during the kiss of peace, because it is a part of liturgy, I embraced him.

And the people criticized me. Why did I embrace him? I said, what is wrong? It is a part of liturgy. Aside, I am embracing a man. If I am embracing Imelda, it would be worse. Then after the mass, we got hold of doves, symbolic of peace. He released the doves and it went soaring the sky. I released my dove and it went to the American ambassador. And it would not fly away. Steve was kicking the dove. It would not fly. I said to him, Steve, the dove is asking for a visa. Maybe the dove is just waiting for instruction from Washington. The people were laughing at it. I was joking, but it was a serious joke. Tell us a little bit, some more stories about your relations with Imelda and Marcos.

Did they, did they consult you? Or were they angry with you when they were across with you... Well of course, when you are a prophet of denunciation, naturally they were not sympathetic with me. And maybe they were even working hard that I would be removed here. But I was not concerned so much about removal, because I was concerned about my responsibility before God, and before the church. And since the documents of the Second Vatican Council was mentioning about responsibility, collegiality, maturity, subsidiarity. So I did my job without, of course, asking Rome because that is to be already understood. That you know your job description. And so I did what I ought to do.

And then I did not mind anybody except my job. And the Lord was helping me. Did Marcos and Imelda try to change her mind, try to dissuade you? Well, sometimes they give me gifts, but the gifts did not work so well in me. I received the gifts. [speaker switches to interviewer] I'm sorry could you tell it again and tell us what did they give you? What kind of gifts? One December, Imelda came and brought food. Every now and then Imelda brings food because she is a good cook. She brought food. Then a big case. I thought that that case was filled with cakes because it was December. I did not even dare to open. And then I sent all the food to the Carmelite Sisters because they do not eat very well, [but] at least once a year

they should eat. And then the box was here. I did not mind it. And then some sisters came to greet me because it was December. And they said to me, what is this? I said that it's cake. They opened it, and it was one million pesos. I said, all right, this came from Imelda. And therefore I should send it to Caritas Manila. And that was the amount I spent for Christmas buying food and rice for the poor. That is how it was. Then Imelda was always here every night to change my mind in order that I would not go against them during the snap election. But since she was always here for three or four nights at 10 o'clock at night, I said to her, Imelda, don't you know that this is the house of Sin? And why don't you come here during daytime?

That was the end. What did she say to you? Well, I said to her, [interviewers muttering] I said to her, you better go to the convents and talk to the sister to help you so that they can pray for you. But you cannot change my mind. First of all, because I have only one vote, and we will present this to the Bishops Conference. We are trying to deliberate and discuss about the statement we are going to make after the election. That was the post-election period. When did you really begin to see the end of the Marcos regime? What was the, what was the turning point for you? Well, for me, I knew that that election will change him because I was already feeling that the people were very miserable and disgusted. In the hills, the rebels were already training themselves for a violent revolution.

And so, when there was a snap election, they opted for boycott. These were the leftist and also the rightist. They did not cooperate with us. And so, we, the moderates, worked so hard and democracy won in this country. And naturally, the result of the election was victory for Mrs. Aquino. However, they twisted the results. And that is why the computer technicians walked out. And I was the one who saved their lives. I hid them for almost three weeks because Marcos was after them. I'd like you to go back and talk about the impact of Ninoy Aquino's assassination, on you personally, and how you think it affected the country.

You know, Ninoy is a good friend of mine. And I was always visiting him in his prison cell. I even officiated at his silver wedding anniversary. He was allowed to get out and we had a celebration in their house. Then he got a heart attack. And he was allowed to go to the United States. And after sometime he got well, I flew to Germany and I don't know how he knew that I was in Germany. And he flew to Germany just to be able to show to me the scars of his operation. Then when he was about to come to the Philippines, he wrote me a letter asking me whether it is timely for him to come. And I said to him, no, don't come because you will meet your death. Because I know what is happening, but he did come.

I don't know if he received my message and he died. I'd just like to go back on it. [speaker switches to another interviewer] When did you feel that he would be killed? Because you know, [interviewers muttering] because you know, Marcos was so afraid of him. He was the greatest opponent in his political career. And the only way how to stop the people from voting for him is I think the idea of eliminating him. And they were able to do that. Would you say that Marcos was implicated directly? Well, during the investigation after that, he appointed me without my knowledge as one of the investigators. Then it so happened that I arrived and the letter was here,

addressed to his eminence, Rufino Cardinal Sin. I said, this is a wrong appointment. Then I told him, Mr. President, I am sorry. I cannot accept this appointment first of all because it is a wrong appointment. My name is Jaime. It is not Rufino. My predecessor was Rufino. Number two, I am a confessor. Suppose the criminal who really planned the death of Mr. Aquino would come to me and make his confession, how could I speak? Because I am a confessor, I am a priest. I will be obliged to keep quiet. So what kind of investigator I should be? So please do not appoint me. I just want to go back. You suggested that you had sources, people told you things.

Do you have any theory or information on what happened? You know sir, everyday people are coming here and they tell me their problems. I have never seen any man who come to this house without any problems. Women, children, professionals. And therefore I felt that it is time for him to go. Because if he continues, there will be a civil war. But I was referring to Ninoy's assassination. Do you have any theory about what happened? Well, I do not anymore talk about this because they have formed a panel of investigators. And if I talk, I might influence their judgment. What was the impact of Ninoy's assassination on you personally? Well, I was really sad about what happened. And that was the beginning of the revolution.

I think you should see this beautiful Betamax tape. People's power for peace. It is the story beginning from the assassination of Ninoy Aquino up to the end. You can get it in the domestic airport. And with Father Lagerwey it is professionally prepared. Tell us how did you persuade Cory to run for president? Well, it was the people who told her to run. At first she was not really planning. But the people said, you are the only one who can unite the people. And when she said, [speaker switches to interviewer] Sorry could you start again? You say the people, which people? The people, the majority of our people in the country. And you know what she answered? If you can gather 1 million signatures, I would agree to run.

They were able to gather more than 1 million in one day. But you persuaded Doy Laurel and Cory to get together? Tell a story... Well, of course, the politicians were not able to unite them and they were the oppositionists. One day Mrs. Aquino came over, she was sitting there and she told me, I have decided to run to be able to implement the ideals of my husband. And I said to her, with whom are you going to run? She said, alone, I don't like to run with Mr. Laurel. Under what party are you going to run? No party. I said, you cannot win. You should have a political party as an organization. And you should run with Laurel because he is also ambitioning to be president. But he would not agree to be my vice.

I said, I will talk to him. And she went away. Then after 2 hours Mr. Laurel came, accompanied by Mr. Concepcion and Mr. Maseda. And he said to me, I am running. I have all the posters for one year I have been preparing for this day. I said, Doy, between you and Mrs. Aquino, I think she is more popular. Straight. And if you run and she runs, both of you will lose, because you have a strong opponent. Therefore, I would suggest, if you love your country, you make this sacrifice, run as vice. He was sad, but he agreed. And that was the beginning. That day was the deadline for the presentation of their application before the commission and election. I said to him, sir, you should be the one to search for Mrs. Aquino. It would be improper for a woman to search for you.

And before 12 o'clock at night, you should already be at the commission and election headquarters to present your application. At 11... Speaking to Marcos, President Marcos, did he consult with you when he decided to call his snap election? No, he already declared it. [speaker switches to interviewer] I'm sorry could you start again and say... Maybe he decided when he was being interviewed by that American from America through the satellite. Then he became so angry. And at a moment, he said, and so I would certainly declare a snap election. That was the beginning. And he could not anymore revoke it. And I advise him. He could have been a hero if he told the people, I think I should give the administration to another.

And I have served the country for 20 years. He will come down a hero. But he did not. Why? Because the cronies would like him to continue. Because when he is there, they will be benefiting themselves. Do you think Imelda had a lot of influence? Excuse me... [speaker switches to interviewee] I think so. People aren't going to understand necessarily cronies. in the United States. I wonder if you could just repeat it and say the people around him or the people who were supporting and benefiting from his government. Well, cronies are those who were the members of the cordon sanitaire. That is the... cordon sanitaire. What about Imelda? Well, I don't know, but I think... [speaker switches to visual operator] One second we gotta change the lens here. I think Imelda is also ambitioning to become the successor. Because I heard that there was even a decree being kept

that if something happens, she would take over. I don't know. I have not seen that decree. Let's, one thing I'd like your observation on, and any role that you played with the Americans, what was the American role do you think in the revolution? Like, for example, whenever America speaks, the whole world trembles. When America declared that this country has the support of America, then that was the end of Marcos. When America was able to furnish us with helicopters to evacuate the family of Mr. Marcos, that was another time when bloodshed was avoided. So, America has played a very important role. And I told this many times to Steve Bosworth.

I should really be thankful to you because you are cooperative. I'm sorry, could you take that again and say, Ambassador Bosworth? I think it is more cordial to call him Steve, but I should call him because of your request. Ambassador Steve Bosworth He talked to him many times during the war. I know he is always here. All the American ambassadors are always here. But it was Ambassador Bosworth who really played an important role in the change of government because it was during his time when he was ambassador. Did you observe him do anything in particular? Well he, of course, did not talk too much because he is an ambassador. But he many times came here. We have beautiful exchange of ideas. And the American people in the embassy are so kind to us for anything. What kinds of questions did Steve ask you?

Well, of course, questions like how is this situation? Maybe he was trying to find out whether his reports or role reports are in accordance with my report. Only to check. That was the American system. They always check. And the checking is important. Now, tell us about the role that you play. You called up President Reagan on February 25th? I call him, but... [interviewee requested to restart] I was the one who was so worried about the life of Mr. Marcos and his family. And so I, through the American Embassy, was asking them if I could be able to talk to Reagan. And I think they talked to him. And after some time, I was told that Mr. Reagan would like to talk to me. But after 10 minutes, I was talking to the President of Honduras that decided to ask, I think it was through the insinuation of Mr. Reagan.

Now, you were asking the President of Honduras for what, asylum? Because at first, the statement of the President of the United States was ambiguous. Because cheating was done by both parties, which was not the case. And then we were able to change his ideas. Because of the statement of the Bishops Conference of the Philippines. And number three, at last, America said, we recognize the government of Mrs. Corazon Aquino. That was the end. Finished. But you were trying to find an asylum for President Marcos and his family. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah, because the church is in love with the life of the person. We would like to save him. We are not politically focusing our attention on Mrs. Aquino. But we would like to make our people happy.

Because for the 20 years of his administration, people were becoming more miserable. And so it is our concern. And so we allowed him to leave the country. But when I called the people to form a human barricade, to save 250 soldiers, Mr. Enrile, and General Ramos, we did not think of ousting Marcos. We were only focusing our attention on how to save the lives of these people. Because defection from the military is treason. And treason is punishable by death. But in the process, he fled away. What can I do? Let me just ask you something about Mr. Marcos personally. I mean, he was for such a long time, very shrewd, very intelligent. What do you think was the flaw, the failing inside him in this whole episode?

Well, the Greeks would say this way, whom the gods would like to destroy, he makes them crazy. And so the snap election was one of those bad decisions of Mr. Marcos. And so it was good that he used the democratic procedures to oust himself. But he's, until then, he was so shrewd, careful, cautious. But how can you go against the will of the people? If the people does not anymore support you, you will have to go your own way. Let me ask you a question about Mrs. Aquino. I wonder if you could, in an attempt, if you could be objective or balanced to give us your evaluation of her. What do you think are her strong points? What are...

First of all, Mrs. Aquino. Let me just ask you, what do you think are her strong points and maybe what do you think may be her failings or loopholes? First of all, she is a very qualified woman, even though Marcos would say that women are only good for the bedroom. That's what he said. She was educated in the United States. I think she is an accountant by profession. She is a linguist. She is a journalist. And therefore she is well prepared. During the lifetime of her husband, of course, she was at the background very supportive. But then you see the transformation. And I was so happy that a woman became the successor of Marcos because if he were a man, there would be a civil war. Because a man is revengeful. What we need now is somebody...[speaker switches to audio operator] Excuse me, wait, we just have to repeat that, that truck was just too loud. [speaker switches to interviewer] Let's say if a man had been his successor.

If a man had been his successor, I think by nature a man is revengeful. And there will be bloodshed. But then a woman is compassionate by nature. And so this is how she handles this situation. Because I say justice without mercy is tyranny. And mercy without justice is weakness. Justice without love is pure socialism. And love without justice is baloney. Let me ask you if you think she has any imperfections, any failings? Well, she is a first of all a religious woman. A linguist, she knows so many languages. Firm, strong woman, but kind. Until now for one year and a half, she has never imprisoned anybody.

And if you have committed a crime, she would say, file a case against that person, let him defend himself and let the courts judge. Could you just talk a little bit about [inaudible]? People have commented very much on her religion, her faith, the depth of her faith. In many ways she seems to believe that she is an office by divine providence. I think I have not heard her say those things. No, other people said this about her. But I believe that I think the Lord has placed her here in order to save this country because before the election, we had a celebration in this country to be able to celebrate the 2000 birth anniversary of our blessed lady. And so we went all over the country and our thing was 'cor',

'cor' means heart. But it was also at the same time an acronym, "C", conversion, "O", offering of our life to God and "R", reparation. Because in the second book of the Chronicles, in the Old Testament it says, if God wants to purify country and to punish that country, he sends to that country a bad leader. But the moment the people return to God and make penance for their sins, then God revives the country, he removes the bad leader and he grants a better one. You see? This is in the Bible and the Bible is the living word of God. And we followed and the result was correct. One last question. We've just spent the weekend in the country talking to farmers. The poverty is very serious. Very serious.

I wish you could talk a little bit about what you think can be done. I mean, it is so the differences between the rich and the poor. Well, you see in this magazine reader, all our secretaries of the cabinet are talking about the plans and it is now implemented. Mrs. Aquino even told the leader magazine that her husband was saying that anybody who would succeed Marcos will fail after six months and that government will collapse without knowing that the one who will take over is his wife. But she is doing it so nicely. She handles things beautifully. She is not nervous even though I would say many times I was in Malacañang. The generals were already restless and would tell her not to go to Mindanao because it is dangerous, she would say.

Precisely, I will go there because it is dangerous. Very strong woman. But I'd like you to just comment a little bit on the social injustices of the Philippines that the great numbers of poor people, the handful of very rich people, how does one deal with that? It is because of this favoritism in the country and too much irresponsible capitalism because irresponsible capitalism is as dangerous as atheistic communism. I call it irresponsible because those who were in power were only thinking of themselves. They do not think of others. .And now this is beginning because I formed the Bishops' Businessmen's Conference We just are furnishing the businessmen with guidelines. And now there are corporations that are beginning to open their eyes

and that the employees are a part of the corporation and the income is shared and the corporations are improving. And so this is the beginning. Maybe the Lord has allowed that we should undergo such a terrible economic problem so that we would see for ourselves that we cannot all the time be selfish. We have to be men and women for others. But when you go on the countryside, you don't see capitalism, you see feudalism. Yeah, but I would say that we are just a young country. We are only 40 years old as an independent country. And we are young. America became an independent country and you had even a civil war.

But here we have no civil war. But then we will try to see to it that there is equality in the distribution of wealth and this is in the blueprint of the new administration. Very soon we might become progressive. If all the money that are now invested and deposited in Switzerland had really been used for the welfare of the poor, I think this country will be number one in Asia. But then our politicians were not very good. And so we are now careful to choose the best leaders in order that this country would be great again. Thank you. Okay, I think that is all.