PowerPoint; Raising Children, Black Fatherhood

No more rolling stones begins in a moment, but first these headlines from PowerPoint News. This is PowerPoint News and information to empower the community. I'm Rashida Johnson, substituting for Verna Avery -Brown. As the U .S. State Department continues to press for peace in the Horn of Africa, the war between Ethiopia and Eritrea continues to rage on. With no end in sight, the toll and deaths and human misery continues to rise. More than 40 ,000 people have been killed with property destruction estimated to end the billions. Dr. Esmeram Legacy, former chairman of the Eritrean Relief Committee, spoke to PowerPoint about another aspect of the war. Eritrean refugees being deported at gunpoint by Ethiopia. The process by which the Eritreans are deported involves the use of informers to begin with to find them, raiding their homes in the middle of the night.

A point can take them out to the concentration camps and then putting them on buses. The bus ride can be as long as 11 days and throughout that period, all the basic necessities, amenities that are guaranteed for prisoners under the Geneva Convention just are denied them. And then they are exposed to threats and dangers as they cross the international boundary because the road that they have to cross, the No Man's land is actually mined. So the entire trip is really a terrifying experience. And then when they arrive in Eritrean, of course, they are given essentials to find their way through the communities and back into the communities. The conflict between Eritrean and Ethiopia, now in its 11th month, reportedly began as a dispute about borders separating the two nations. The physician for the Nation of Islam's Louis Farrakhan says there is no death watch being conducted on the

minister. Reports in the most recent edition of the village voice fueled speculation that Mr. Farrakhan was suffering from an assassination attempt on his life by the U .S. government and was near death. Rumors that the 65 -year -old Muslim leader was dying began circulating and gained momentum because of his absence from public view in recent months. In a press conference held in Chicago, Dr. Aleem Muhammad, Mr. Farrakhan's personal physician, told journalists that Mr. Farrakhan had been receiving radiation treatment for prostate cancer. Next week, in this hour, PowerPoint will focus on the life and impact of Louis Farrakhan. And finally, this question, for all those hoop dreamers out there, how can you help promote world peace with the basketball? Make it to the world's use basketball tournament in Hawaii this summer, and you'll be doing just that. The tournament will gather young hoopsters between the ages of 9 and 18 in Hawaii from June 18th to the 28th to play basketball and discuss ideas about world peace.

For more information, contact Scott Gladstone at 808 -326 -4747. Straight ahead on PowerPoint, host Ralph Wiley talks with Black men about fatherhood issues in the African -American community. You can get in on the discussion by calling the PowerPoint hotline now at 1 -800 -989 -8255. For PowerPoint news and Verna Avery Brown, I'm Rashida Johnson. It was the third of September that day I'll always remember, yes I will, cause there was a day

that my dad had died. I never got a chance to see him, never heard nothing but bad things about him. I'm depending on you, tell me the truth, mama just hung her head and said, son, I for was a wrong or snow, wherever he let his hat for his home, only to live as well as a long home, oh, I for was a wrong or snow, my son, yeah, wherever he let his hat for his home, all he left us was alone, great rhythm track, but it really makes you think, doesn't it? Man once said, commitment is to love what golf is to a good walk, the perfect way to ruin it. And it wasn't a black man who said it, but you think so, judging from the last few years, our

show tonight no more rolling stones, black male fatherhood issues, and we'll be talking with Ron Mency, a senior program officer with the Ford Foundation, and Jeff Johnson, president and CEO of the National Center for Strategic, non -profit planning and community leadership, who's in studio with us. Gentlemen welcome to PowerPoint. Welcome. Now thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here. It's a pleasure having you here guys, it's a pleasure to be anywhere right now. As far as black fatherhood goes, we seem to be living in somewhat of a contradiction in the years after slavery, when families were intentionally broken up, and there was intention and intentional destruction of the family unit, it could be understand, it could be understood almost, but after slavery, the forties and fifties in this century, marriages were strong in the black community, families were strong, fathers were strong. How did we come to our present state? Let's start with you, Ron. Well, I think that the vestiges of slavery on

African -American families, in particular on relationships between men and women, were not entirely healed in the 1940s, but since then, we've experienced a number of shocks that continue to destabilize those relationships. Shocks having to do with the depression, the migration of African -Americans from the south to the north that were around employment, shocks that have had to do with the Vietnam War, shocks that have had to do with the decline in the earnings of men, where black men have suffered especially from these. And I think over time, we've in a way continued a number of shocks that undermine the ability of black men to support themselves and their children, and without that, it is very difficult to sustain a marriage relationship. And I think that's sort of the underlying trend, and until we can deal with that underlying issue of enabling black men to support themselves and their children, this conversation about fatherhood is

the sort of fallout of all of that. This time on Powerpoint, we're talking about black men and fatherhood, or fatherhood returns to the hood. And you can get in on the discussion by calling the Powerpoint Hotline now at 1 -800 -989 -8255. That's 1 -800 -989 -8255. I really like Ron's take, Jeff. I like his take too, and let me even make it more, give you more of a picture. I can recall in 1966, a year after Daniel Moynihan's infamous Negro Family Report. And it was infamous. Sitting in my dining room while my older brother was waiting at the phone. And what he was waiting at the phone for was a call from a local minister who worked at the plant. I'm from the Detroit area. And what he was waiting for was a call to get a job. And it was like, he was being called by an NBA agent. He was just waiting for that call, and he got the call, says James Jr. come down here and get this job in the morning. And what my brother said, I think is very indicative of what Ron said. What

he said was that I got me a job. I can get me a job, I can buy me an apartment, I can get me a car, and I can even get married if I want to. In many respects, Ralph, those jobs that existed in that blue collar field that required low skills are no longer available in our central cities. And I think that in many respects, that has taken the bottom out or the real ingredient necessary to make that step towards marriage and also stable families. And so if you really want to know what has been the trend since the 1940s, that is, is the decline in low skilled job for black men in this country. And both of you guys are really cut to the chase here because I think that's really the under economics plays such a major role in a man being able to take care of his responsibilities. We're talking about no more rolling stones, Fatherhood returns to the hood with Ronald Mency, an active national proponent of Black Fatherhood issues, and a senior program officer of the Ford Foundation. And in studio with Jeffrey M. Johnson, President and CEO of the National Center for Strategic Nonprofit

Planning and Community Leadership, both men are active participants in national efforts to change perceptions about Black men and Fatherhood issues. And they'll be taking part in a breakfast briefing this coming Tuesday, March 23rd, 1999, from 8 .45 to 10 a .m. at the Howard University School of Divinity in a program called the Politics of Fatherhood and the era of welfare reform. So you're saying economics is the reason why so many Black men have chosen to abdicate their roles as fathers. You're saying it wasn't a choice at all. I don't think I'm not going to hang it entirely on economics. I think economics plays an important role. But in a lot of ways, Black men and Black women, we've mismanaged relationships with women. And that's a big part of the correction that has to occur. We not only have to get the economic straight, but we have to get these relationships with women straight. And it's not going to be easy to figure out how to accomplish both of those

things. It's going to, some tough questions have to be asked. Jeff, I'm going to ask you. It's a tough thing. Did the women's liberation movement impact Black families and especially Black men at all? I think so because in many respects, I think it undermined what had built up to be one of the strongest units of a family life in America. You know, Bob Hill and his infamous, I mean his famous book, The Streams of Black Families pointed out that during slavery, the issue of equity and Black male female relationship was not issue because they both were slaves. And they were both trying to do the best they could under the circumstances. And I do think that Black people have enjoyed more quality and substance than relationships and other groups in terms of their one -on -one relationships and also in terms of family life. But I do think that these shocks that Ron spoke to earlier really has to contribute to a stress in those relationships. And of course, I think that the feminist movement has played a role in confusing, if you will,

issues around women versus issues around people who have been disenfranchised and that you cannot exclude the issues of Black men from the issues that affect Black women. And I think that Black women are calling the quandary trying to tease out what is uniquely gender -related related to Black women and what is, what may be issues that are unique and say in relation to Black people as a whole, racism does not discriminate against all. This time on PowerPoint, we're talking about Black men and fatherhood with two guys that really know what they're talking about and have strong opinions. And you can get in on the discussion by calling the PowerPoint hotline now at 1 -800 -989 -8255. No more rolling stones. What do you think, audience? 1 -800 -989 -8255. Ron, well, in the Black community, there have been many, many families that have been raised as children of welfare. What's the impact now as Black

households, especially those where single moms rule, are being weaned from the welfare roles? Is this a help or a hindrance to Black fathers? Or would be Black fathers? You know, or should be Black fathers? I'm going to say something provocative and courageous. I think in the long run, it's a help. Because one of the things that this welfare reform has done has made has been an unequivocal commitment on the part of the government to establish paternity for, based for 90 percent of all children who are born out of wedlock, who have more downside of marriage. And as a consequence, two things are occurring. At the same time, there's a lot of pressure on mothers to go to work. There is also a lot of pressure on fathers to be responsible for their children. And I think this is hard medicine, but today, the most, the statistic that I run around within my mind, that threatens me day in and day out, is that 70 percent of African -American children are born outside of marriage. And I think, unless and

until, we can cause in a variety of ways fathers to take responsibility for the children that they bring into the world, we as a people are in life -threatening situation. And so, again, I think it's hard medicine, but I don't want to see another three generations go by with the rolling stone that we began this program with. This time, on PowerPoint, we're talking about Black men and fatherhood, or fatherhood returns to the hood, or does it? And you can get in on the discussion by calling the PowerPoint hotline now at 1 -800 -989 -8255. If you want copies of this, or any past edition of PowerPoint, please call PowerPoint at 1 -888 -682 -6500, and we'll take care of your requests. Jeff, a lot of resentment exists between many single moms and the fathers of their children. How can we, especially males I'm talking about now, improve these relations, or can we? I think we definitely can. First of all,

Ralph, I would say that a lot of times these relationships are misunderstood. A lot of these relationships appear to be more problematic than what they really are. For example, we know that a lot of Black men who have not established legal fatherhood pay informal child support. They actually see their children, they actually go to the store and get those diapers and unbeknownst to the public. And that is important that we not generalize when it comes to these types of relationships. Having said that, I do think that what we have to do is understand that over the last 30 years, we have created families and children born to these families that are in somewhat disarray. And what we have to do is strengthen these families. And the way we strengthen these families is by training parents and educating parents to be good parents, and that we can approach it from the standpoint that these young parents now have the knowledge, skills, and know -how to be good parents. Because in many respects, they were born into a crisis

situation for the most part, and that they didn't see the role model parenting that you and I saw to even know that it was possible. And what we have to do is create the type of program structures that allows, you know, Ron and other private and public funders see the real advantages of training a generation of parents who understand what their responsibilities are and are doing those things necessary to enable children to grow up healthy and happy. So I think that's what we got to do. We got to work with parents to be good parents, and in those situations where the couples aren't married, we still got to have these couples work together because children need both of their parents. And it really does take people like Ron Mincey in the Ford Foundation to put the resources out there to enable us to experiment, to come up with innovative program designs, to really address some of the issues that you raised, Ralph. Ron, what about you? I mean, I would say the same question. What about this resentment? Can it be overcome between these single moms and the

fathers of their children? Well, Ralph, I think some some work that we have supported tells us yes. We've been looking at mothers who are in the hospital, these are young, low -income mothers in about 13 cities around the United States, and asking them questions about themselves, the children that they are about to have, and the fathers of those children. In more than 50 % of the cases, these mothers are already living with the fathers of their children even though they are poor. In about 80 % of the cases, they are romantically involved with the fathers, and they want the fathers to be involved in the lives of their children. And I think this is a critical piece of missing information that is to say we have assumed here for that absent that when a child is not born in marriage, that the father does not want to do anything with the child, and the mother doesn't want anything to do with him. And the day they are beginning to suggest that that's just patently not true. On the other hand, what we've done is to create through welfare an infrastructure

that does not support that couple to grow together and learn how to meet the needs of that child over time. Instead, we've constructed an infrastructure meant for middle -income, divorcing parents with a relationship between the mom and the dad is over. And we've taken that, and the only role for public policies to collect the money from the dad and pass it on to the mom and child. We've taken that infrastructure that says that there is not a role for family building and family strengthening, and we superimpose that on African -American parents where our family formation is underway. And so the role that we have to say is that in effect, we need to take families where they are and then strengthen those families and to use structure of social welfare policy that is welfare and child support to do exactly that. And that's why we call these families fragile families. What do you do with something that's fragile? You nurture it, you care for it, and you strengthen it. Fragile indeed, Ron. Fragile indeed. No more rolling stones is our issue. I'm Ralph Wiley, this is PowerPoint.

Live from Washington, D .C., we're talking with Ron Mency, a senior program officer with the Ford Foundation, and Jeff Johnson, president and CEO of the National Center for Strategic Nonprofit Planning and Community Leadership. You can get in on the discussion by calling the PowerPoint hotline now. That's right now at 1 -800 -989 -8255. So 1 -800 -989 -8255. In fact, we're going to go to Andrea, or is it Andrea, at affiliate WHYY in Philadelphia. You're on PowerPoint. Yes, it's Andrea. Andrea. Yeah, I guess I hear your fervent advocacy, and my one concern is that what I know of Bureau of Labor Statistics information, and it's not like I have it right at my fingertips, but over the last decade and probably two decades, the differential between white and black you know, you can't start with false data, and then hope that people will listen seriously to your arguments. Well, I don't know if the data we

have is false. Ron, Jeff, you want to quote some research? Well, I'm saying, check the Department of Labor data. They have the most extensive data on income, and my understanding is that what you've described is not accurate. Well, I think you make a very important observation. In the first place, the incomes of black and white individuals have grown more close over time. That is, African -American incomes are rising, and the income and beginning to keep pace with the income of whites. However, family incomes, on the other hand, are diverging because rates of divorce and separation. Oh, you seem the same thing, though, with white families. That's sorry? You see the same thing with white families. If you compare like with like, you'll get 70 percent of African -American children are born out of wedlock. You know, well, that's an issue. I heard an issue, the income issue. The point is that

if you're trying to maintain a family based on two incomes on average, if you're white, and black you're trying to maintain a family on income, then there's no way you're ever going to achieve the kind of economic equality we want in. But if you're arguing that because there is an economic equality, when the reality is, so the economic equality is increasing, then your arguments are going to lack merit. Andrea, I sense something there, though. What is your passion for this subject? Oh, I'm an economist, and so I don't like people using economic figures and using them for their own purposes. Sounds like you're also a mother. Are you? Are you a mother as well? Well, I don't know about that, Andrea. That's a vast statistic. I don't have everybody's a mother now. You know, to show equalization amongst the kids by kissing every child on the cheek from the oldest to the youngest. That's what my father was about. That's important, too, because in many respects, there are a lot of us out there who have wounded father experiences. And it's important to know that a lot of us have had good father experiences, and we need to share that to show

other fathers that they can be good parents as well. And even if you haven't had that experienced, Jeff, it's important to hear about it, so you can know what you missed and pass it on to your son or daughter. But wait, Ron, wait, because we don't go to a break, and there's, but there's much more to talk about. No more rolling stones. Ron Mency, singer, senior program officer with the Ford Foundation, Jeff Johnson, president and CEO of the National Center for Strategic Nonprofit Planning. This is PowerPoint. I'm Ralph Wiley. Get back here. Stay tuned. PowerPoint are provided by World African Network,

offering news, information, sports and entertainment for African and African -American communities through broadband and new media technologies. The web address is www .waenonline .com. That's www .waenonline .com. This is Public Radio, and you're listening to PowerPoint with Ralph Wiley. This is Ralph Wiley and you're listening live to PowerPoint.

We're talking with Ron Mency and Jeff Johnson about no more rolling stones. Ron, so sorry to interrupt you before we were leaving, but your point was... My point was that your caller and Jeff and yourself had a very provocative conversation here, because the notion of positive fatherhood is important also for those of us who did not have the experience of their father and their lives, because that's my experience, and I will tell you that being able to father my own sons was a completely transforming and healing experience for me. That is to say, I did not experience a father as a child, but I did experience being a father and did some self -correcting, and I think more of that needs to be accomplished in the lives of African -American men who weren't as fortunate as Jeff was to have a father engaged in their lives. What you're saying is so great, and that's why you and Jeff makes such a good team. Jeff's great example, which you can almost smell the love in the air, and then you have people like you and I

who had to make a conscious decision not to emulate what had happened to us, and you have to make a conscious decision, otherwise subconsciously, you'll live out whatever your life was. That's right, but the interesting about that is that while there's a lot of young brothers out there who become fathers early are the same need to go through this transformation process, a lot of them don't have the wherewithal or the tools, like you Ralph and Ron, to undertake the responsibilities, financial and emotional otherwise, of child rearing. What they have to be taught is that look, it's like the brother said, you can become a father, but being a father does not make you a man, and that you have to accept the full range of responsibility that goes along with it. You need to be able to access different resources and programs that can help you to do that. Again, I think that's the important point of a person like Ron Menci again, because Ralph, it's very important to acknowledge that foundations like the Ford Foundation are in a

position to help support the type of pilot programs, innovative approaches that we can benefit from to share with public policy makers about ways to really respond to these issues. I want you to know that Ron Menci is not just a person who transformed himself as a father, but he's also a person who's really through his own work, trying to contribute in a very large way to the betterment of our society. And speaking of that, Ron, let me ask you about the Ford Foundation Partnership with the Department of Health and Human Services. Well, we are working very closely with the Department of Health and Human Services on a project called Partners for Federal Families. The goal, really, is to take advantage of this welfare reform that we have. As I mentioned before, it requires fraternities to be established for virtually all children, and they are concerned, that is the Department of Health and Human Services is concerned about that. They're concerned about cementing relationships between men and women that here and for have not been important, and the sort of static and problems that may result. And

what we've done is they look. Let us work with you on the low end of the income distribution of men and women. Let us work to create and build the infrastructure of community -based responsible fatherhood programs so that they can go out into the community. They know the families, they know the women, and encourage them to establish paternity. In return, you provide them with the resources that they need to help the couples manage the financial risk that they assume when they establish paternity and the relational risks. And so we're working through Dr. Johnson's organization to do this in 10 communities around the country. The Ford Foundation has made available $10 million to fund this project, and we're seeking a support at a similar level from the Department of Health and Human Services. And it will be the largest demonstration of its kind ever in the United States, and we obviously have high hopes for it and have been working very hard. And it will be a great victory. It will be a great victory when you win it, Ron, and I have no doubt that it will be won, but right now it's a struggle. I mean, you have popular songs where

young women are saying, oh, some suitors coming to see you. Who is that? That's just my baby daddy, as though it really has no no weight. We're going to talk to our PowerPoint listeners now. We're going to talk to Maria at affiliate WHY -Y and Philadelphia. Maria, you're on. Ron, Missy, and Jeff Johnson. Ralph, the host, how are you? Ron, and Jeff, guess how are you? I'm going to talk about the hardest hard core of, and the hardest part of what you're talking about. Let's get real and talk about these single, young, not men, boys, 14, 15, 16, young women, babies. She may have 10. He may have five or six babies all over the place. Okay, you tell me. That's NBA basketball players you're talking about, aren't, or Clint Eastwood. Let's be real. I mean, it's not just in our community. We know it's not just the African -American community, but everything that's negative, really focused on us the most. Okay, it's an, and then you see these young people and the women are out there with their children calling them MFs and Bs, and you know, and don't talk to them. Don't say something because they'll get in your face. You know, and then they're playing this loud music. Children are learning

all these filthy, I'm talking about one, two -year -olds. They're learning all the filthy rap and they're growing up with this. How are you going to re -educate these people? And we're talking about young people, 15, 16, who don't have jobs who are going to take care of maybe a baby. He got in this neighborhood, another baby. He got over in the other neighborhood, a baby by somebody, you know, maybe four or five, spread around. Well, I want to focus on where that process begins. And I think the caller is, is it's important to point this out. One of the things that I'm concerned about is this phenomenon of sequential fatherhood. And don't hang on, because I have one other thing to say. No, Maria, you're here with us on PowerPoint. You're not doing anywhere right now. Okay, that is to say, when a young man or a young woman have their first child, something goes sour in that relationship, and for both of them, particularly the father in this case, who wants to become, who's looking for that fulfillment, goes on to fire a child by another woman and woman. And our point is, we have to get a hold of this situation early. And that's why we're focusing on young fathers and young mothers. And what we want to do is,

again, we were not able, or no one was able to stop the early birth in the first place, but we want that man and that woman to come together around their responsibility for their first child. Okay, Ron, let me slip a question in before Maria follows up. Why is it that so many black marriages failed or never happened in this case? Thank you. No marriage. I think it's because it's the modeling again. Again, you know, this is something that is very, a predicament of black family life, the modern day, you know, six percent of all black marriages end in divorce, and that you have seventy percent of black children being born out of wedlock. You know, you know, it's not an issue of rehabilitation, it's an issue of habillitation. You know, you got to start and teach young people about marriage, as a pro and positive thing, and that they don't get that. I can tell you, I work with hundreds and thousands of young men, and we have a curriculum that we use, and

one of the sessions deals with family planning, and we talk about exploring marriage. And do you know that a lot of those young fathers who have children, you know, one child in most cases come up to us after the class and say, look, this is the first time that I've ever been in the conversation about marriage. You know, I didn't even know what the benefits of marriage are all about. And so because they didn't see that in their own homes and, and Ron said, we're trying to impact at an early enough level, level, to it is not primary prevention, but it is secondary prevention, prevention. You've got to start somewhere. Yes, Maria, please do. Well, what you're talking about is, is getting that young person who may be at that one child level. So are the ones who have more than one child, the one who is fifteen and sixteen who has all these children or two, three children, are they lost? They're not there. They're not lost, but I'm telling you, they're not, they're not the large, they're, the minority. They're the minority, though. They're the minority. So you really think, oh, definitely. What's your experience? In the black African American

community, I see a lot of it. They're in Philadelphia. Absolutely. A lot of it. And you know what? I, as myself, as a, as a grandmother, as a great -grandparent, I try to take care of my grandmother. You're a great -grandparent? Yes, believe in that. She's young. She's 20. She has a child, but I had put it in her from the time she was young. Schoolwork. So you know what? And she did it out of marriage. And the father's there, but he's got to get his life together because he came from a very, very hard, you know, background. But she works. She's works. And she was a sophomore. She's still working full -time and goes to, she had to baby a year ago. She goes to college. I told her, I expect a lot of her. It may be hard, but I am trying to tell her. I expect this of you. Baby, no baby. She's going to go, she's going to be a RN. The only thing that, you know what? It gets on my nerves when she gets in the car and she's blasting these filthy rap records, the child's a year. And it's so much, I try to, you know, that's going to hurt the baby. When he gets in school, he's not going to hear. You have to constantly berate him and say, just the baby's father have any contact with the child. Oh, yeah, they're, yes, they're together, but I'm just saying he has to get himself together. He has to pull himself up,

you know, and I try to tell him what I expect to him to, but it's, it's going to be hard, struggle. But it sounds like you're doing a wonderful job. And again, and you're just kind of reinforcing I think that would run. I hope to make happen throughout these programs around the country, and that is havingLoving extended family members being a part of that whole process of rearing those children. That's what we call these. And and, and be constantly encouraging our young people not to have more children until they can accept full responsibility for the financial, emotional and other responsibilities that come along with being a parent. Thank you for calling. We're not going to drop dead. We're going to really try to respond to them in ways that help them manage those situations. Okay, Maria. Thank you. Thank you for the rest of the show. Thank you for calling. You're welcome. How does Black America begin to define or redefine a quote unquote nuclear family? What do Black men do as fathers to meet the challenges of the 21st century? Step up to the plate,

dad, and give us a call, mom. Right now at 1 -800 -989 -8255, it's 1 -800 -989 -8255. This is PowerPoint. I'm Ralph Wiley. We're speaking with Ron Mency, senior program officer with the Ford Foundation and Jeff Johnson, president and CEO of the National Center for Strategic Non -Prophet Planning and Community Leadership. We're going to go to the PowerPoint hotline and speak to Rob at affiliate WFSS in Fayetteville, North Carolina. Rob, you're on PowerPoint. Hey, how you doing, gentlemen? My question was to either Ron or Jeff, you mentioned something about our maternity programs that are established in this broad fraternity. And that's one of my questions. I'm in the parliament area of child support, as you're saying, one directly and one indirectly. And reason being, I have a son, but she's mad and he thinks he's a father. So what I'm saying is, where are these programs coming into play? And I think that's one of the problems

in our community is, you know, people pointing out to children or other people, and you see it, and then it makes you hesitate to jump 100 % ahead into that relationship with that child, and you're not 100%. Well, wait a minute before before before I guess Ron and Jeff answer Rob, how do you know that this child that you say is in unmarriage is yours? Exactly. That's one thing. What she tells me and what's going on, it's my child as far as the features and everything like that. As far as opportunity, just anything like that, I'm not 100 % sure, but he figured it is his child. Like I said, anybody can be in that type of situation and that right there makes you hesitate when you know other people in your community. That's reason children that they think is there's not because they're stepping up to the plate and raising somebody else's child. They think is there a child, but everybody in that area knows except for that person that it's not there. And that's why I say, what kind of you mentioned in programs, what kind of programs that they have available now for us to be able to find out the potential of your child? That's a source of that. Let me take correct that. I think your caller is

expressing a dilemma that faces a lot of African -American women and women. The issue is there are programs hundreds of them all around the country, but they're not well funded. They don't have a firm infrastructure and this is precisely what we're trying to build around the programs that we are creating. And what we're really trying to do since welfare reform requires these opportunities to be established. We are trying to encourage funding to be available for those programs in order to get that done in order to have the agents that are in the community do what would otherwise be very difficult to do. And it is important for a father to have confidence that a child is in fact his and that can occur as a part of the process of establishing a paternity. You can have a blood test which will tell you with 99 percent probability that you are or are not the father of that child. And so we are trying to, again, deliver the resources that are going to enable these programs to do what's needed in the community. Well, it sounds like Rob, though, is for at least for the

child's sake better to have one too many than one too few as far as fathers go. We're going to go to Anthony at Affiliate KTSU in Houston, Texas. Anthony, you're on PowerPoint. Hello, gentlemen. Thank you for the opportunity. I wanted to inject something from listening a little bit earlier when one of the gentlemen was talking about the jobs being eroded out of the inner city and in the black community and the things of that nature. One of the four sites that I have been fortunate to have grown up to see is that opportunity is everywhere. It doesn't necessarily mean you find it in in particular communities which you have to explore, seek out and believe in the finding of opportunities. I think so many black men have a tendency to try to look in certain places to find solutions. And we have to learn to that the world is going global. We have to branch out and still be able to come home to back to

our communities once we've gone out and found a lot of the opportunities. Seeked out a lot of the resources. This is an information world. There's no reason that anyone couldn't get out and find ways to be successful, make things happen, create income, generate income, become entrepreneurs, become engineers, become educated, everything's there. All of that groundwork and legwork has been done by a lot of people before us to open those doors. But Anthony, do you have any children, Anthony? I've got two kids. That's good because you sound like you're a good father, Jeff. They say father's bill character and mother's bill people and from what Anthony says, it sounds like it might be correct. How does the lack of black male input impact the moral outlook of a black child? I just think that what a child learns from both parents is two sets of everything. Two sets of behaviors, two points of view, two ways to love, two ways to approach society, be it domestic or global. And that's the important

thing. I think that the role of black women and men and marriage complement one another in unique ways. And the young people get, and children get a double dose of everything. I want you to think about that. When I think about growing up to 12 years with my mother and father, I got two sets of everything. I got two supervisors. I had two people telling me, I brought you in as well, I take you out to the world. But Jeff, didn't you also learn, I mean your mother is sort of like that first model of a person. And for the daughter of a father, he's her first sort of model. So she learns how to get along sort of like with a man. So when she grows up and becomes married, she sort of knows what that is. That's critical. Let me tell you why because I think that my daughter right now is 13. In the conversations that I have with her about boys are about the boys in the locker room that I grew up with. That's a much different conversation that she'll get from my wife because my wife is telling about being pursued by the guys in the locker room. And so that's an important message because if a

father's not abusive, in any way, he becomes the first safe boyfriend, you know, for daughters. And that's critical to deal with other men and other males. And so I think it's critical. But at the same time, I think that for my son, who's 18 year at Morehouse, what it represents a way of thinking about who you are as a black man in society and the types of things that I went through that I could pass on to him that allows him to be able to negotiate life in a certain way. No more rolling stones. Hold on, Ron. I know you're ready to go, but we got to go to a break in a minute. This is Power Point. I'm Ralph Wiley. We're talking about No More Rolling Stones with Ron Mency, a senior program officer at the Ford Foundation and Jeff Johnson, president and CEO of the National Center for Strategic Nonprofit Planning and Community Leadership. This is Power Point. Stay tuned. Here's what's coming your way next week on Power Point. As

Power Point concludes a month of programming celebrating African American women, tune in next week to this public radio station for an uplifting discussion, black women and spirituality. All that and PowerPoint news with Verna Ivory Brown. This is Public Radio and you're listening to Power Point. Our program will continue in just a moment. Let's do a little cheerleading for those guys who weren't rolling

stones who did gather a little moss. Those black men who are still married or getting married or been married or if outside the household are doing the right thing and are raising their children. We're talking about parenthood and fatherhood particularly black male fatherhood issues in this hour on Power Point. I'm Ralph Wiley with our guests Ron Mency and Jeff Johnson and apparently this subject has really hit a nerve because our lines are lit up. We're going to go to Betsy at Affiliate WHYY in Philadelphia. Betsy you're on Power Point with Ron Mency, Jeff Johnson and Ralph Wiley. Hi thank you very much. I just want to say I think that the notion of dealing with parents when they're young and they have one children is wonderful and they need to learn parenting skills and especially father. I'm an educator in Philadelphia and I think that well those things are wonderful. I think what we need to do is start even younger. I taught third grade for nine years and I

know that as they're that young at seven eight and nine and then especially into a seventh grade they need to learn then that being a parent is a gargantuan responsibility and that they're assuming it many many many young people are assuming that responsibility much too lightly and much too haphazardly and they're looking to have someone to love them unconditionally and they think that by having a child they're going to glean that love from that child and yet as a parent it's their responsibility to love not to just get love. Well I agree one percent I think that you know we believe in a primary prevention I think that a lot of people who come to workshops that the National Center gives around the country you know obtain the information that we have about fathers and parenting for the express purpose of using it in high schools and and customize it to the different youth groups that they're working with. I think it should start early I think that for the sake of our project we're trying to start at a point

where we know there's a significant problem and we think that we have some solutions really to really try to create stronger families and stronger couples so they can be make some different choices about their relationship and also some different choices about what they do on behalf of their child. Betsy you make a great PowerPoint we're going to try to get as many calls in as we can thank you very much for calling okay we're going to go to Sherry at affiliate KTSU in Houston Texas Sherry you're on PowerPoint with Ron Minsky Jeff Johnson and Ralph Wiley. Hi Sherry. Oh hello hi thank you for letting me get in the line. I just want the comment that I wanted to make is that a lot of people think that the role for father I think somebody touched on it a little bit earlier unfortunately a lot of people think that the role between father and son is really important but I would like to stress the fact that the role between father and daughter is just as important because it teaches the female how to pick choose a husband or mate and to father her child or to you

know become that future husband for her. That's that is critical that modeling that cross gender modeling I don't think we realize how critical it is we're going to go to Roy at affiliate wh y y and fill it out for your Roy you're on PowerPoint with Ron Minsky Jeff Johnson and Ralph Wiley. A good evening gentlemen I'm a single African American father. Yeah and it's two years old and my biggest problem in this country here is that there is no culture there is no etiquette on how to be a human being or what the purpose of life really is economical stable ability does not stabilize life it's a temporary materialistic concept of living so when you're educating a child into a society that's unstable the child becomes unstable I'm trying to educate my child here but it's very difficult because where are you from Roy where's your original home my original home is Philadelphia but I've been out of this country for like

27 years I just recently turned to came back here two years ago with the son because his mother passed away in a foreign country so I came back here for medical reasons but I find here that the people are totally off focus there is no culture everyone is for himself it be he's for himself to gain material stability and I've been around poor people so poor they had nothing but their family roots were together because they had 500 or 2000 years of culture on how to be a human being okay thanks for calling Roy what about that Ron how can you overcome the environment and there is sort of a me culture a me personality out there now how can we overcome that as a community and and try to bring back in these fathers and have a community of families again well you know I just think that that your caller has in some sense denied his own statement in that the reason why he is going to be an effective parent for his child despite how how

inappropriate or how difficult our culture makes it is that he advances himself as a protector as a teacher as the one who as best he can define the culture that that child learns and he becomes as it were a buffer and a filter for what that child believes okay let me ask you both one thing Jeff and Ron will black fatherhood make a strong comeback and what do we have to do to encourage black dads to stick and stay I think black fatherhood will make a strong comeback and I think it is making a strong comeback I heard my 23 year old son tell me the other day you know dad the music that I'm listening to from young African American men are in the music that he listens to is saying that it is not cool to fire children and not be responsible for them so I think in some sense what we have to do is to capture that change in the ethic and work it and just quickly I agree 100 percent I think that the work that we're doing is the exemplification of that I just dropped my son off going back to school from spring break this morning and he

said that I love you and so that kind of gives me some hope that he will understand the importance of being loved by his own children when that responsibility occurs okay this has been PowerPoint no more rolling stones Ron mency is senior program officer to Ford foundation and Jeff Johnson president CEO of the national center for strategic nonprofit planning remember even in parenting imagination is more important than knowledge this is PowerPoint I'm Ralph Wiley come back and see us again to order audio cassette tapes of tonight's program or any past edition of PowerPoint please call was written and produced by Tony regusters and directed by Tom Woodward associate producers for PowerPoint include Eric Lewis and Tony

Lestrap PowerPoint news is produced and anchored by Verna Avery Brown power points in PR technical director is Neil Teval assistant producers include K. Marshall and Rashida Johnson legal services for PowerPoint are provided by Theodore Brown PowerPoint theme is from the CD F stops by Craig Harris the executive producers for PowerPoint are Reggie Hicks and Tony regusters PowerPoint produced in Washington DC is a production of Hicks and Associates of Atlanta Georgia for PowerPoint this is your announcer candy Shannon saying thanks for listening PowerPoint is made possible by a grant from the corporation for public broadcasting's radio program fund this is PowerPoint a production of Hicks and Associates