The American Scene; Job Hor: Architecture and Construction

The American scene, the series of pre -recorded programs providing a closer look at those things which form our contemporary society, produced by the Illinois Institute of Technology and Cooperation with WMAQ. The discussion today will consider job horizons in architecture and construction. Now here is our host, Don Anderson. Welcome to the American scene. My name is Don Anderson. Technology and economics are perhaps the two greatest influences in the fields of architecture and construction. Rapidly developing technical know -how, new materials, new systems for supplying utilities and comforts, new techniques for building all have greatly affected the traditional concepts of creating structures and buildings. Mason -Rian Wood are no longer the core of design or construction. Technology has developed reinforced concrete and glass, concrete steel composites, pre -stressed concrete. It is possible today to build a structure by pouring concrete into a form that rides up with the building. It is possible to mold concrete,

steel, wood or plastic into shapes which add both structural strength and beauty. The development of the elevator and the skyscraper went hand in hand. Today the development of complex systems of air conditioning and heating goes hand in hand with the development of glass walled structures or domed stadiums. Architecture and construction no longer simply manipulate materials like bricks or two by fours. They must now manipulate whole systems of highly specialized elements, depending on a great number of extremely skilled specialists. Economics is a second major factor in these two fields. The demand for the architect is directly related to the state of the construction industry. If construction activity should go down, the architect, usually the first to be involved in the building process, would of course be in less demand. The economic picture today however is seemingly bright. All around us office buildings, super highways, stores and shopping centers, apartment buildings and homes seem to be springing up in endless succession. Almost without exception, construction

expenditures have risen each year during the last decade. During 1963, in the neighborhood of $63 billion was spent for construction. Adding to this, the modernization of existing structures, the figure approaches $80 billion. The United States Department of Commerce estimates that by 1975, new construction in the country should almost double. By the year 2000, it should have doubled again. The demand for architects and builders seems to be increasing. As in other fields, it is the trained and skilled practitioner that will be in greatest demand. The architect is, of course, an artist and a professional. He must have college or professional training and he must be licensed. In construction, the man who could swing a pick or shove a wheelbarrow is disappearing from the scene. Today, a high school diploma is essential for all but the lowest paid jobs in the industry. Skill craftsmen are needed, whose training comes from periods of apprenticeship or specialized education. The college -trained engineer is also in demand,

particularly in supervisory and management roles. To help us better understand the job horizon in the fields of architecture and construction, I am pleased to welcome this morning Mr. R. Ogden -Haniford, Associate Professor of Architecture at IIT, and a partner in Y .C. Wong, our Ogden -Haniford and Associate's Architectural firm. And Mr. Jerome Goldstein, President of Power Construction Incorporated. Gentlemen, thank you very much for coming with us this morning. In the picture I painted in this opening statement, seen rather bright. Is it really that bright? Is the outlook for job opportunities in these two fields as healthy as it looked here? Mr. Goldstein. I think it is. I think there's a lot of opportunity for young men who are high school graduates in the industry. The industry expects to add a million men in the next ten years. The industry enjoys the highest wage

scale of any industry in the United States. A good mechanic, well seasoned, hardworking man can earn eight to ten thousand dollars a year today. And then there are opportunities to become a foreman and a superintendent. So the outlook is good as far as number of people that are going to be needed in the industry. Now is the architect dependent on how many people work in the construction field? If the construction industry is healthy then the architect can be assured of employment. I think it's a true dawn that the architect's activity depends on the demand for buildings. It is an extremely challenging field of endeavor for anyone who is interested in problems of human existence, problems of mechanics, problems of structure. I think that it is fair to say that

it's perhaps not as highly paid a field as other aspects of the construction business. And I sometimes advise people not to go into architecture unless they feel that it's something that they really want to do more than anything else. Because a lot of their reward will be the satisfaction they get from doing the work itself. One of the conceptions about an architect is that the fees are high. That if you hire an architect to build your home, for instance, that it's going to be an expensive project. Is this true? Well, high is a relative term dawn. I think that many people who want to buy a home, if they find a home available, ready built on the market that needs their needs, they have no business hiring an architect, they should get that home because this will save

the money. And the architect services are for people whose needs are special or whose requirements are in some way special. And artistic expression, I think this is one aspect of the architect that should be brought out that he is an artist as well as a businessman that he has to be concerned with the architect. He must be both. To be a successful architect. What are the opportunities you are a partner in an architectural firm? Is it possible for an individual in the construction industry to start his own construction company to have a small company or must he go with a large company? Well, I would say that he would be better served to get his training with a large company. The usual procedure is that if he becomes a journeyman, then he becomes a full paid journeyman. If he has ability, after four or five years, he can become a foreman.

And if he has additional ability, which is recognized by his employer, he can become a superintendent. And then if he has further aspirations, he can go out and start his own construction company, provided he has the business knowledge and a little money to back him up and so forth. It's difficult today to start a company from scratch without having sufficient background and experience and sufficient capital. I read somewhere that people have gotten started in the construction business by taking some old homes and remodeling them, refurbishing them, selling them, and then from there growing into larger and larger companies. This doesn't happen too often, I don't imagine. Well, the experience background would probably be give him the training to operate a home -building company. But if he is going to get into a larger construction, you see the field is so

immense. It starts with the man who does small remodeling jobs on homes. And it goes up to the contractor who builds skyscrapers and large hospitals and large institutional work. And it's divided in the field of a man who does as a contractor from perhaps 10 ,000 to 100 ,000. And then you have a field from 100 to 500, and you have 500 to a million, and you have a million to two, and then you go all the way up to 15, 20 million a year. And that man can be excel in his particular field if he wants to stay in that field. Well, the period for apprenticeship in the construction business is fairly long. Three to five years. But during that period, the apprentice starts at 50 % of the wage scale of the mechanic. The wage scales today are $4 .43 for carpenters, up to $5 for electrician, with 15 cents an hour for

his and 30 cents of side issues thrown in the pot. So that even if he started as an apprentice, he would start from, say, 220 to 250 an hour. Is the period of apprenticeship for an architect equally as long? If you include the training in school that's required, it's at least that long, since all architectural schools now have a five year curriculum for architects. After that, it's necessary to, after that or during that period, it's necessary to get in two or three years experience working under the direction of a licensed architect in order to qualify for the state board exams. Not to get the knowledge, but to be able to take the knowledge. Of course, to get the knowledge. In order to take the exam for the license, you have to have shown that you have worked for three years. Yes. So the period of apprenticeship is

about the same for both that it's not neither of them are fields that you can get into immediately. Is that correct? That's true. What about the college student in the construction industry? Is he becoming more important to college graduate and engineer, for instance? I think there's a very definite field for him in the construction industry. The man in the office who does the estimating usually is a college graduate, usually has an engineering degree. He would have to be on larger projects. About 50 % of the field supergents are college men that started out as instrument men and engineers on a job. I think there's a very wonderful field in building construction for college men. And the minimum, of course, is a high school education today? The minimum is a high school education for mechanics and apprenticeship.

Well, what about the effect of automation, automatic tools, automatic techniques and things of this nature? How is this affecting the field? No direct effect on the architect except as it would affect the construction industry and therefore affect his planning. Is there any effect felt in the construction industry? Well, I don't think the construction industry is faced with automation. Let us say that it has been faced with improved methods of construction. But I don't think that these improved methods of construction have depleted the manpower situation. It isn't as I told you before, like a man puts in an IBM machine. I'm a lot of mention that and that takes the place of 25 employees. We don't have anything in the construction industry like that. We have more efficient methods and we had 40 years ago. We

don't have hot carriers anymore. We have hoists. We have mechanical conveyors to convey our concrete. We have a moderate amount of use of tools and machines, but not to the extent that the industry has. Well, important is that Mr. Hannover that an architect can be up to date and aware of the techniques that are used in the construction industry when he makes his plans. Oh, I think this is extremely important because if the building you design can't be built and be built economically, it isn't going to be built at all. As an architect, you are planning the work and the method by which the work will be done. And architects are always looking for the improved ways to build more for less. In answer your question about automation, I think computers

are used at least in some large architectural firms and structural engineering firms. But this is to calculate engineering problems in some cases, which were simply too time consuming to be figured out before. I'm thinking particularly of thin shell concrete structures, domes, and for which the mathematical computations are extremely time consuming and complicated. And this can, here a computer can be used effectively. It's not really putting people out of work. It's allowing us to make better buildings than we would otherwise have been able to do. How specific is the architect and his instructions to the construction company? Well, I think one has to be entirely specific in the sense that you not only make plans for the general character of the building, but every

detail, every window, every connection, which is in any way unusual. In some cases will be drawn full scale on the drawing so there can be no possible misunderstanding about how it's to be done or no possible misunderstanding on the estimator's part as to how much money he has to allow for that particular operation. Does the construction company then have any leeway in this? In other words, if you have a better way of doing it than the architect tells you to do it. Can you go back to the architect and what kind of interplay is there? We hope he will. I think the architect is primarily interested in the final result, isn't he? Right. And the method of achieving that final result is up to the general contractor to figure that out. However,

in the process of achieving it, the architect wants to be sure in the engineer that the strength that is needed in the structure will be there, the element strength. Many times, if you can figure out a more better way of doing a job, the architect is very cooperative and willing to listen to you. What about the fields as a career opportunity for women? Well, I can say that at Illinois Tech, in the architecture school there, there are one or two girls in each class, one or two women. I have seen published work by women who are registered architects in the United States. I think one in Boston. I have maybe you read in the paper recently about an article about a woman's structural engineer, I think in the Chicago area. And I know some large firms

here have women in responsible positions, some large architectural firms, as designers, so that while it may be considered historically a relatively new opportunity for women, it is a real one. How about the construction industry? Well, I think as unfortunately women have not played a big part in the construction industry, except in the home building. There have been many successful home builders among the women. But beyond the home building, at least in this area, I don't know if any of them have been in the industry. Perhaps because the best training is to work on the job. That's right. You usually rise up through the ranks. You either come in as an engineer or you come in as a journeyman. And you rise up through the ranks and there's no place neither for the woman in either of these places. We talked somewhat about new techniques that are

being developed in the construction of buildings and somewhat of the effect this has on the architect. What about these new fields of prefabricated buildings or prefabricated sections of buildings? Is this going to have any major effect on the number of people employed, let's say in the construction industry, if it can be done in the shop and sections of a building carried to the site? I think it can be more carefully done in the shop. It will still take the same manpower in the shop and these people in the shop are unionized and they are mechanics. Their wage scale is very small. There's a very small difference between their wage scale, at least what you call the area, than there are the men on the job. The workforce would just be transferred indoors. Indores to create greater efficiency. How extensive is prefabrication in building now as an architect? Is it becoming more important? Oh, I'm sure it is. I think it's hard to define and I'd be interested to hear Jerry's view on

this. I see it as a matter of scale. The brick after all was a prefabricated building unit and Pharaoh used them in Egypt three, four, five thousand years ago. We're working in larger and larger prefabricated units. But the idea of a prefabricated unit in this sense is not new and it's consequences in architecture. That is the repetitive pattern of identical units. I think the same effect on a much larger scale today that it did in times when the largest unit was a brick. The pendulum seems to swing one way and then it swings the other now. Over a long period of time, there probably as the years go on, there would be more prefabricated things used. But I still don't think it will have any effect upon the number of men employed. It's my belief and it's the belief of the association that I belong to, that the next

ten years, we'll have to add about a million men to our manpower situation in the building trades. Regardless of what kind of new developments or technology we've developed in that. Because with the burst in population, you're going to have a burst in home building and a burst in schools and a burst in shopping center and a hospital. Everything else has to go along with it. Are construction companies specialized in the kinds of buildings that they do? Yes, they are. The term general contractor is sort of a peculiar thing. We all use it, but that isn't true. The 50 years ago, the general contractor was a man that did everything. He'd build a home or he'd build a hospital or he'd build a bridge or he'd build a road, but that isn't true today. It's very highly specialized. The home building

units, contractors who are a feel all by themselves. The institutional contractors like ourselves who do hospital work and college work and large office buildings are a feel by themselves. The commercial contractor who builds shopping centers and stores is a feel by itself. The road contractors are a separate feel. The man who builds the dam is a separate feel. The man who builds conveyors and things of that sort. This is very highly specialized. The same as medicine or law or anything else today. Is that because the techniques and vary that much in the fields are just a... The knowledge varies. And being highly competitive, you stay in the field that you know the best and that you can compete in. Is that true with architects as well? Not entirely. Well, a certain firm is noted as hospital architects or somebody else has done a lot of schools and other firm has done

a lot of schools. But I think when you ask the principles of that firm, they are more likely to tell you that they are not specialized. Because though let's admit that an architectural firm that employs 200 men is not the firm to go to for a three -bedroom house, their overhead is too high. That building simply couldn't carry it. But I think that you would find that architects are more reluctant to admit that they are specialized because their interest is very broad and they would like to handle a project of any nature that falls within the range of the capacity of their firm. It's possible for a small architectural firm to handle a large job, a huge skyscraper, a major development project or something of that nature. And does it take manpower to do these? It certainly takes manpower to

produce the working drawings for a building like this huge building we're sitting in here this morning. And an architect couldn't do it by himself. What does happen frequently is that if an architect gets a job which is beyond the capacity of his office to produce, he may associate with a larger firm of architects in order to with the agreement of his client in order to get this job done. Similar to the subcontracting in the construction. Well let's be a little more specific than we have been as to the relationship of the architect to the constructor, to the builder. Now what are the steps that are involved in a client getting a building? How does it go about it? He goes first to an architect and then what? I mean the architect then draws up the plans and turns it over to the construction company. Yes, the architect really is an advisor to

the client and he first analyzes the client's problem to see whether there's any... to see whether he has taken into consideration his whole need for the foreseeable future which may be five years or maybe 25 years. And then this has to be reconciled with the available financial resources for the building. The building then preliminary schemes are drawn, checked with the client and later detailed drawings are going into. In some cases a contractor may be called in for consultation and as Jerry can tell us there are many different types of relation between the contractor and the client. And many different ways in which a building can be a building contract can be arrived at. Well once the contractor gets the plans what happens? Well he usually figures the

cost of it. He has to figure the concrete work and the brick masonry and the carpentry which are the trades that he usually does himself. And then he gets subfigures for the other trades such as plastering, window wall and mechanical trades plumbing heating and that. And then when he gets his price together he usually submits it in competition. When you bid your jobs there's a day announced when the bid opening and sometimes the bids are done open in private sometimes they're open publicly but the public venture. I say it's a state venture or a college venture that the government of money is involved. Well closely then once the construction company has gotten the contract how closely does the architect work with the construction company? Very close. There's usually an architect superintendent on the job and the shop drawings are what you're created by your own company and your sub trades are submitted to the architect for approval. Are the very

close aligned when you say that? Yes and the have to be. The whole building of the building is a close cooperation between the architect and the contractor and the architect is not only there to represent the client's interest but also to serve as an impartial arbitrator in a disagreement between the client and the contractor. The architect can't always take the client's side because he has some understanding of the contractor's problem as well. Well I wondered if that happened during the construction of a building whether the construction company could come and suggest other ways of doing it or different ways of doing it, new ways of doing it, money saving ways of doing it. Well certainly and as Jerry mentioned earlier he finds architects cooperative I would say is an architect that architects welcome this kind of suggestion from a general contractor once he sees

any time he sees what looks like a better way to achieve a specified result. Well gentlemen I want to thank you very much this has been a most interesting conversation this morning and I think we can see that there really is a very close relationship between the architect and the construction industry. And from what you've told us the economic outlook is very bright for both that salaries or income may not be as high as some people think in the architectural field but that there will be openings for more architects in the future. And that income salaries for the construction industry are very good and probably will increase in the future. Thank you very much Mr. Ogden Hanford and Mr. Jerome Goldstein and this is Don Anderson saying good morning for the American scene. This has been the American scene today's discussion job horizons and architecture and construction. Add his guests Mr. Er Ogden Hanford assistant professor of architecture at IIT and partner of YC Wong Er Ogden Hanford and associates and

Jerome Goldstein president of power construction incorporated host on the series is Don Anderson of IIT. The American scene is pre -recorded and produced for the Illinois Institute of Technology and cooperation with WMAQ. Next week's topic will be job horizons in the fine arts and will be discussed by Mr. Jack Conroy author as we continue our investigation of the American scene.