PowerPoint; Foreign Correspondents, Clinton Affair

Production and broadcast of PowerPoint is made possible by a grant from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. This is PowerPoint, an Information Age clearinghouse for issues affecting the African -American community, the nation and the world. And now PowerPoints Kenneth Walker. This time on PowerPoint we introduce a new series, Foreign Correspondent. Our aim is to help you our listening audience hear how journalists from other nations report on America to discover for yourselves how America is seen in the eyes of other nations and people around the world. What, for example, do they think of the African -American community and what are some of the big stories in their own nations or part of the world? We'll find out as we talk from time to time with journalists from Asia, Africa, Europe, South America, the Middle East

and the Caribbean. On occasion we'll also include some respected and uniquely honest American voices in the mix. And helping us this time human rights activist and social commentator Dick Gregory. You can join this discussion now by calling the PowerPoint hotline at 1 -800 -989 -8255. That's 1 -800 -989 -8255. PowerPoints Foreign Correspondent Series begins in a moment, but first PowerPoint news with Verna Avery Brown. For PowerPoint news and information to empower the community, I'm Verna Avery Brown. Independent counsel Kenneth Starr is working through the Labor Day weekend to complete an impeachment report against President Clinton in the Monica Lewinsky scandal. Legal sources close to the investigation say

Starr expects to go after the president on the possible impeachable offenses of perjury, obstruction of justice, encouraging a witness to lie and abusing the power of the office. His seven -month grand jury investigation report is likely to be submitted by the end of September. Clinton has denied asking anyone to lie or to hide or destroy any evidence in what he admits was an inappropriate relationship with Lewinsky. Freshman Congressman Nick Lampson of Texas has outraged over the callus disregard for the life of seven -year -old Sherice Iverson, who was allegedly raped and murdered, while David Cash stood by outside the restroom door of a Nevada casino. Cash escapes prosecution for his role of witnessing the assault that failing to report it, because Nevada does not have a good Samaritan law. Lampson will propose a federal bill this Wednesday that would mandate all states put in place such a law. To me, it's common sense that a person responds when another is in need and to see someone actually being seriously harmed and ultimately killed and stand there or stand by

knowing that it's going on and not attempt to do something is morally wrong and that's what we're attempting to change with this legislation and it's got to be enacted in every state of the union. The Sherice Iverson Act, if passed, would withhold federal child protection grant money from states who fail to put in place a law that would make it illegal for people to witness a sexual crime against children and fail to report it to the authorities. The lawyer for a seven -year -old Chicago boy says the child probably confessed under police pressure to help and kill an 11 -year -old girl. Charges have been dropped against the boy and his supposed eight -year -old accomplice. The crime lab showed semen on the girl's underwear something seven and eight -year -olds are unlikely to produce. Lawyers for both boys have demanded an apology citing a rushed to judgment by police. The thousands who turned out in Harlem Saturday for the million -youth march were greeted by a sea of blue police uniforms. New York Mayor Rudolf Giuliani labeled the event a hate march following comments from March -convener Khaled Mohamed, a

former spokesman for the Nation of Islam. Mohamed was expelled from the nation after a speech in which he referred to Jews as blood suckers and insulted the Pope and homosexuals. As offensive as Mohamed's remarks may be, Steve Rindle, senior researcher at Fairness and Accuracy in reporting says Giuliani is hardly in the position to seize the higher moral ground. If I were a reporter covering the comments by the mayor to the effect that this rally is a hate march, first of all, I don't think it's a march, but I would immediately flash back to several instances in the mayor's own career. One is presiding over a police riot, a drunken police riot, replete with racist posters about the current mayor David Dinkins referring to him as the washroom attendant and a shoe -shine boy. This is the mayor that were now asked to put up as a standard bearer for morality and what's racist or what's hateful and

what's not. Steve Rindle, senior researcher at Fairness and Accuracy in reporting, commenting on the Pacific and Network Morning Show democracy now. Up next on PowerPoint, foreign journalists weigh in with their host Kenneth Walker about the way the U .S. is perceived and covered in the media abroad. If you'd like to participate in this discussion, give us a call at 1 -800 -989 -8255. For PowerPoint news and information to empower the community, I'm Verna Avery Brown. The future was, it's my world. Oh, don't you bother messing with my world? And I don't appreciate it. Some people that you see is hurting you and me. It's my world. Don't you come on messing with my world? No. Cause I don't appreciate the fact. Some people just can't see. It's hurting you and me.

your. It's your I'm coming to you. It's my. It's my world. It's your. your world. It's my world. I'm coming to my mind. Welcome back. I'm Kenneth Walker. News in America has always been Eurocentric, meaning it was never very good at reporting on people of color wherever they were. And over the last

few years, American news has come to be dominated as well by celebrities, titillation, and crime. All of which means that Americans rarely get a consistent look at what's happening to other people. What's happening in other places? This hour of PowerPoint marks our modest attempt to weigh in the balance. This is the start of a regular series we call foreign correspondent journalists from all over the world will be invited to talk about what's going on in their parts of the globe. And how American policies and people are regarded there. As always, we want to know what the views of our listeners are so you can join this discussion by calling the PowerPoint hotline at 1 -800 -989 -8255. That's 1 -800 -989 -8255. If to help launch our new series, PowerPoint

is pleased to welcome Deograzia Sinha. He's the president of the African Correspondence Association in Washington where he also serves as the correspondent for La Potential. A newspaper out of Kinshasha, the capital of the Democratic Republic of Congo, formerly known as Zaire. Hoping will be joined by Telephone from Nairobi where it's for in the morning by Peter Chage, the night editor of the East African Standard newspaper. We also trust will be joined a little later by one of our unique voices we hope to bring to this new series. In this case, American human rights activist Dick Gregory. Deograzia, welcome. Thank you for having me tonight. There's been a lot happening in the former Zaire, the Democratic Republic of Congo lately. What can you tell us about what's going on there right now?

There is a war going on in the Congo. As many people now see, the Congo is a very important country in Africa. We are in the heart of Africa. Since the second of August, there was a rebellion which started by Congolese. It was mostly started by Congolese of Rwandans origin. And these are the same people, in fact, who started the war which brought Laurent Kabila to power against a former dictator, Mubutus Seseko, who ruled the country for the last 32 years. The main problem is that contrary to what most of the press is saying is not a network war is such. This war is against dictatorship. Mr Kabila since he came into power has been behaving

exactly like Mubutus. He has brought up, again, nepotism, corruption, and all sorts of things which Mubutus was doing. In fact, Reverend Jesse Jackson, as one time said that Kabila is just Mubutus, Jr. So I think that's the real characterization of Kabila. Kabila has been a disappointment for everybody, especially for the Congolese people. Well, that raises the question, your characterization of exactly how free is the press still in the Congo. The press they are trying under very difficult conditions are continuing to work. But since President Kabila came into power some 15 months ago, he asked all government -owned companies, most of the company in the Congo, where nationalized during Mubutus days, and he asked them not to advertise in the independent press. My newspaper is part of one of the independent press. So as you can see, when you don't

advertise, it is very difficult to operate in such circumstances. I see. What led to the falling out between Mr. Kabila and President Kabila and his former allies in Rwanda and Uganda? The problem, it is true that things have not been going on as I said earlier on. Mr. Kabila first, when he arrived, after having been built by Rwanda, Uganda, Angola, and others to come into power, there was a lot of expectation from the people, because the struggle in the Congo was not, but Kabila did achieve that struggle against Mubutus because the people of the Congo were tired of Mubutus, they didn't want Mubutus anymore. So the entire Congolese people wanted to get rid of Mubutus, that's why it was so easy to get Mubutus out in seven months, the Congo is a

huge country. Then after that, the people were expecting some change, this didn't happen. Internally, Kabila instead of embracing all the Congolese political parties, instead he banned all political activities, even exiled like one of the most important political leaders in the Congo, Mr. K. Now that was internally, it did not manage to get everybody around him and it did not bring social peace in the Congo. So that was internally. Now, in the outside, as you can see, Kabila failed also to keep his way to Israel, for example Uganda and Rwanda, by the fact that, after he took over power, the activity of the insurgent who were attacking Uganda continued their activity like in Rwanda. So those were the conditions, they wanted to get rid of Mubutus so that people should not, all style

group to government of Rwanda and Uganda should not continue to operate in the Congo, but Kabila still failed to stop that. So these people became frustrated all that, apart from that, the all international community, you know about the poem of the investigation, about refugees, who to refugees who are killed in the Congo, if frustrated all the UN investigation, they to live without finishing their work. So Kabila is disappointed almost everybody. He seems, however, to have rallied at least a portion of the people in Kanshasha in the face of this threat, mostly it seems, by using sounded like threats of genocide against Congolese Tutsis. Absolutely, Kabila is shown, apart the events, just the latest event in Kanshasha have shown that Kabila is not even west to be ahead of state. You cannot, we are in the near the twenty -first century, when a head of state passed on radio and television in Kanshasha,

tell the people, the entire people of the Congo that you must take weapons, all sorts of weapons, and you must kill. Not arrest, but kill. Anyone who will see with a long nose, trying to say about that, that's the Tutsi, he was referring to the Tutsi. There is no head of state in this world who can do such a thing. In fact, you have head two days ago, the former prime minister of Rwanda, was sentenced in Russia tribunal for doing exactly the same. What Kabila is there? Life in prison as well. Exactly. That is an appeal to genocide, which is unacceptable. We want to now bring in Peter Chage into this discussion. Mr. Chage is the knight editor of the East African Standard newspaper in Nairobi. Welcome, Mr. Chage. Welcome to PowerPoint. We understand from the morning papers here in Washington that a third suspect has been identified in Nairobi, in connection with the bombing at the embassy

there. What if anything can you tell us about that? The only thing I can say is that there are a lot of expectations on the issue of the bomb because it has been one of the worst calamities ever. Although there have been other calamities, there has never been such an incident where people died all at once in a terrorist bomb explosion. And it was also shocking so that there are so much expectations as to what the United States is going to put in in terms of getting the suspects arrested, getting the investigations done, so that at least people can feel that something has been done against terrorism. And because of course there is a feeling that the United States, Kenya was struck because of the presence of the United States. I

mean, the target was not in Nairobi. The target was not in Nairobi, but Kenya was struck, the embassy was in Nairobi. So the thing is, you know, I think you remember, in the first instance, in the first impressions matter, and after the bomb blast, there were feelings that the United States of America did make it happen. And I didn't make an innocent reaction in terms of helping out in helping out to remove the rumble and to see the life of the people who are at the rubble. So there are feelings among Kenya in the first instance. It was on Friday, about one and a half weeks ago. There are feelings that the United States of America, Marines, did actually help instantly. So hence, the other expectations that those kinds of feelings should

be nullified by having action taken and action taken so that people should get the reassurance that the Americans are actually... I mean, the Kenyans are actually aware of having the culprit tried. And this is what they might do. They might feel that something was done. What is the current thinking or feeling among people in Nairobi and other parts of Kenya about American action since then? Mr. Chage? We're having some difficulty with our international line, but while we straighten that out, Mr. Simba, how did your paper for you? The line was passed. The line was offered a few minutes. Okay, go right ahead. We ask you about the feelings of the people around. Yes, about the American action since then. What

is it today? Well, it has been trading gradually. As I said, it is a question of the first impression. Because the situation here is that as you would expect, it's a backward country. And disaster preparedness is at a very low level. Because there are of course weaknesses in terms of equipment. And the disaster preparedness is not usually very, very, very low. So there are the initial expectations that the US Marines would have worked almost immediately. But unfortunately, the French and the Israelis were very, very, very dominant. You know, the Nairobi would work almost instantly. It was unfortunate for the Americans that they had also been struck. And they were also involved in retrieving their dead and helping their people. But the feeling was that

because the Americans are super power, they could have almost acted instantly. Because what happened is that instantly after the bomb blast, volunteers, you know, closed thing. They rushed to the spot, volunteers. People were just walking by and were trying to remove the rambo with their bare hands. But unfortunately, what the layman, the typhoon around, could see where the American Marines were just guarding their, they were the blue of Russia. That is the American embassy. And unfortunately, that was the contrast of the reaction of the Israelis and the French on the spot. Tell us something. On Friday after Friday, very after two days, they tried to Marines and the French Marines already there, helping the volunteers. But luckily, after the complaints, it would appear like something positive appeared to us, to

that's a money and money being made from the American side. But I think that something I would like to make clear. Now, why did these negative feelings start? Why did people start feeling that the Americans are not shouting out? For example, there was a South African airplane, which had been sent to take the wood to South Africa. Unfortunately, when the plane landed in Nairobi, only three Americans were putting the plane. And taken to South Africa for treatment, they were treated, and then they were discharged. So when they heard that talk, people got a feeling that the Americans were not interested in the lives of the dead canyons. Tell us something. Something is that they will talk that the American Embassy were requesting to allow

the people who are retrieving, who are trying to help to remove the rubble. The Americans were allowed to allow the rescuers to use the compound of the embassy to dig a tunnel. So to dig a tunnel, it's the first way to try to see the people who are around the rubble. But this permission was neglected. Tell us Mr. Chage. Chage, tell us something if you can about the thinking behind the decision to allow the suspects to be brought to the United States for a trial here as opposed to trial in Kenya. Now, there are big feelings about it. Now, most of it was felt that it was the responsibility of the Americans to try the suspects in America, because Kenya

feared, generally, that there will be the attack of terrorism attack if the trial was to be done in a ruby. And there was fear that being a bad war country, and a poor country, at that, those are feeling that they will not be able to counteract any reparation measures from the terrorists who would hate back, but in case the trial was taking place in a ruby. But also that is again a feeling that because of the Americans, there is again a feeling that is an American problem. I see. And the tragedy was caused because of our relationship in America. And it was very agaistic place away there in America out of the Kenya and soil. I see. But there is a second link to that. There are other people who feel that having the suspect

tried in America gives the impression that Kenya had abdicated their jurisdiction, because the crime had been committed in a ruby. And it would drive the people who would have got the feeling, people could have been, the assurance that something has been done and something is taking place in a ruby. All right. We are talking with Peter Trage, Knight Editor for the East African Standard in Nairobi. And Deograzia Simba, the Washington Correspondent for La Potential newspaper. And we're pleased to say we've just been joined here on our new series Foreign Correspondent by Human Rights Activist Dick Gregory. You can join this discussion by calling the PowerPoint hotline at 1 -800 -989 -8255. That's 1 -800 -989 -8255. Welcome, Dick. Thank you. God bless you. You and the family. You know, it's kind of interesting when you

stop and think about what we have been told, I've known for years that money is not power, and education is not power, but information is power. And, you know, you look at the press today and you have to realize that, you know, when people get ready to take over a city or a town or a country, they don't do it with guns, they buy the radio station, the television station, and the newspapers. And when you look at America, we are assuming that America is the most free and the most non -under control. We should be looking at NBC. It's owned by Western House. You look at CBS, it's owned by Western House. That's actually a general election. Generally, I'm sorry. CBS is owned by Western House. About 76 % of all the weapons that kill people on this planet come out of them too companies. Now, I'm supposed to listen to them for some non -biased news. So, when you listen to the news, you have to listen and use your God -given intelligence. Now, I say that

to say what they've been telling us. First, we have the bombings of the two embassies. Now, I'm just saying what the American information is telling us. They say, first, there was five people in the car. You're not going to have five revolutionary suicide bombers in one car. That's five different hits. So, you're going to have one do it, and then you've got four left to do something else. So, the fact that this government is saying that there was five, and who's come out with five in the car. Now, they say, had they not been turned away from that first gate, it would have been many more people killed. Let's look what they're saying. Two unarmed guards turned them away. Now, you got some guys they tell us one to the other gate, took hand grenades and kill the folks. But here, if you listen to what this government tell us, five revolutionaries just willing to commit suicide, let two guards

stand in the gate with no weapons turned them around. You know, you sit and you're not listening to something that's making sense at all. Then, they started talking about being laden. Oh, how bad they want him. He was in the Waldorf Astoria in New York four months ago. Now, if I know that, you tell me this whole government don't know he here, and then they kind of forget that Dan Raver, a couple of years ago, went over to Afghanistan and did this whole three -part series with the rebels. It's been laden and then thugs that the CIA had paid three -point, three billion dollars to put together because unbeknown to most naive Americans, that whole bit about the Russians and the communists and the Afghans. Yeah, they was fighting over who's going to control the opium fields, and the poppy fields of which I signed one, and that's a whole CIA operation, and about 90 percent of the harrowing that goes into Great Britain and comes to America, comes out of that part of Afghanistan. And so, you know, we keep

looking. Here, you take, they had something like 125 missiles landed in two countries at a million dollars a piece. Now, you tell me you came put up 25 to $50 million reward for whoever you want, and so when you look at what they tell us about the place in the Sudan, the pharmaceutical company, you know, it's kind of interesting because that same television they used to manipulate, if you look at it, you see things. The firefighters were standing outside their fighting fires, they had no gas mass on it, no chemical protection suits. So what could have been in there? We're coming up on 29 minutes into the hour. We are talking with Dave Grazio, seen by the Washington correspondent for La Pante Potentiale newspaper, Peter Chage, night editor for the East African Standard in Nairobi and Dick Gregory. Our discussion for in correspondent on PowerPoint will continue when we come back. Internet services for PowerPoint

are provided by World African Network, offering news, information, sports, and entertainment. For African and African -American communities, through broadband and new media technologies, the web address is www .wanonline .com. That's www .wanonline .com. www .wanonline .com You're listening to Public Radio, and this is PowerPoint with Kenneth Walker. Up with the pilgrims. Welcome back.

As I said, this is the premier edition of Foreign Correspondent, a new series here on PowerPoint. We're talking with Dave Grazio, seen by Washington correspondent for La Pante Potentiale newspaper out of Kinshasha in the form of Zaire, Peter Chage, the night editor for the East African Standard in Nairobi and human rights activist Dick Gregory. Mr. Simba, on the embassy bombing, how, for example, did your paper handle that and its aftermath? Unfortunately, this event which occurred on the 7th of August, it was when there was no electricity in Kinshasha. Up to now, there is no electricity. The newspaper are not coming out. But I wanted to come back to the issue of the trial in the United States. I think it is a good thing that the trial is taking place in the United States, because of the cost of the trial, the cost even of keeping these people in jail. You know,

Kenyans, there are over 200 people died there. The Kenyan government has got a lot of costs to bear on this. And even in the future, I think African government now must know that they are going now to wake up on this issue of terrorism and we have to cooperate with the United States about security measures, airports and all those sorts of security measures. Because I can see that the U .S. is to pay the bill, if they want, because most of these things have come to Kenya, and Nairobi, and Tanzania, in Jerusalem, because of their relationship with the United States. So the United States must have African countries to try to reinforce their security measures at airport and in control of all these terrorist people. You know, one of the things you have to be very careful of was the longest trial

is here. You're going to have to monitor that. You know, in Panam flight 103 over Lakhobi. Now, I'm not about to be naive enough to believe that I know that HCI, A. Agents, was on that plane coming back here to testify. And the government don't know that. And when you sit around and you look people all over the world seem to know what's going down except us. Now, I'm not one of these people that's anti -American. I ain't going nowhere but here. But I'm not going to sit here and let this government lie and let a lot of people get manipulated in the process of that. When you look at the terrorist bumming in Oklahoma City, there was a white girl by the name of Carol Howe that was a government informant. Now, the reason I'm telling you name, this is stuff you can check out of the story and time magazine. I don't know. Every night in these stories slip through. Carol Howe warned this government that that building was going to be blown up 90 days before it was going to be blown up. Nothing happened. When it

happened, she tried to get the news out. She was indicted and went to trial. The day that building was blown up, they arrested an Arab terrorist hooked to the CIA in Chicago. And I'm telling you stuff you can check. The FBI in the city and said let him go. He landed in London, the British intelligence, and Scotland York arrested him. The CIA in the city. He had a briefcase with electrical bomb detonating material in it. They put him on a plane and sent him back here. So I'm saying don't just sit back and watch. If you while you hear, if you go get a newspaper, The Washington Times, let me give you the date and the page. The Washington Times, April 22, 1998, and it is on page 6A. Now it's a story that runs about two inches. It never made NBC, CBS, ABC, never made none of the

major newspapers. And it should have been headlines. And here's what it says on here. It says FBI paid mortgage on Nickel's home. Denver, the FBI made mortgage payments on Terry Nickel's home after he was arrested for the bombing and a co -conspiracy in the bombing of Oklahoma City. Now, why didn't this make big news? And here's what the FBI says. Justice Department spokes woman say it. She do not know immediately why the government was making payments nor the amount. And it have died at that. But this is serious business, man. And anytime this government is paying the mortgage for a terrorist bomber that have committed one of the most hideous acts in the history of this country. And so I'm saying to you, it is very, very important that when your light do come back on, you know, you better really investigate what we do over here. We're talking with Dick

Gregory, human rights activist, Peter Chage, a night editor for the East African Standard in Nairobi, Deo Gratia Simba, Washington correspondent for Love Potential, newspaper in Ken Shasha. You can join this discussion on PowerPoint's foreign correspondent by calling our hotline at 1 -800 -989 -8255. That's 1 -800 -989 -8255. Our phones are jumping off the hook. So we've got to let our listeners in. They're the reason we're here. We're going to start with Kelly and Baltimore with station W -E -A -A. Welcome to PowerPoint, Kelly. Oh, whoo. Let me say this. America caused Jesse Jackson saying that Kabila was just like Mubutu. First of all, Mubutu, everything he'd done was done at the expense of African people. And he was backed by this American government, the head of U .S. controlism, the head of terrorism is this government right here, America.

And when we say that America are the terrorists, well, I'm a member of the U .S. Hoover Movement, and we understand political economy. As long as Kabilism is around with America, stealing all the wealth from all the African countries, and you're talking about what Mubutu is doing, but Mubutu was backed by America, all the sugary, all the rape that he did. The America got theirs. They stole all the wealth first, and Kabila got the crumbs that was left over, although it still made him a millionaire, but the bottom line of America is the biggest terrorist of all the countries in the world. Thanks a lot, Kelly, for that opinion. Thanks for your call, the best to you, and all the listeners at W -E -A -A. We now want to talk to Paul and Philadelphia with station WH -Y -Y. Welcome to PowerPoint, Paul. Hello. Hello, and welcome. Yeah, good. Thank you for giving me the opportunity. Well, really what I'm trying to point out is that, in general, the

African -Curse owners, myself and I'm an African from East Africa. And what we try to really see is, I really feel very strongly in this, what's so -called New World Order, that African Americans have their job cut out as far as Africa is concerned. We are grateful for the struggle that African Americans have done for independence of Zimbabwe and South Africa, and they're still their job is cut out for them. I cannot rely on African correspondents much, because they have vested interest, which I really believe they are kind of biased in one tribe or two other. What publication do you write for Paul? Actually, I'm not writing right now. Okay. I want to be a very honest, I just trained as a journalist, because it's not easy to get a job in that field. Well, why would you want to, if you have such a low opinion of African correspondents? I'm not what I'm saying is, it's not having low opinion about African correspondents, because the truth has to come out. What I'm saying is, like, for example, you earlier said about the utility situation that is in this country, how most journalists start doing things

from Eurocentric point of view, it is true. But I'm also saying that journalism is very important part of any free society. The truth will only emerge through that venue. But I'm sensing, like the gentleman talking about the Kabila, about Tutsis and different things, there are certain things that the United States government has set in East Africa after this new world order, like what they're doing with Uganda president, with Ethiopian presidents, with the retrained president, and all lined up all the way to Congo in Shaza and going across in that area, like so -called peacekeeping forces, and all the different things. All African people want is, they want to have food, shelter, say the children's school have health and peaceful life. But mind you, the two things in Africa, number one is that everybody wants to become a president, because that is not actually political

aspiration. It's economic aspiration. They become a president, they got the hand in the cookie jar, or they just rob and do everything. What we want from the United States or Europeans, if they really want well for Africa, is to set some kind of form of constitution and law, I mean, law and order structured, at least, however, make believe it is. Okay, well, I'm not sure that that's the responsibility here. There are Americans in the Europeans, but I want to thank you for that thought. We do have to move on. The best of you in Philadelphia, and all the listeners at station WHYY. Let's talk to Dr. Omotayo in Washington with station WPFW. Welcome, Dr. Omotayo. Yes, I'm the editor and publisher of the African News Line here in Washington DC, which is a weekly newspaper. I myself, I'm from Africa, and one question that I would like to put on to your audience, I see Barbara Big Gregory is there, is a

regular commentator down here in this area, is I noticed that Nelson Mandela didn't favor the military intervention, but is in Barbuea and Namibia, and other countries and the crisis in the Congo. But recently, at the non -aligned meeting, a flip -flop and supported the intervention effort and con for a meeting, which ultimately failed. And what we see here is that Africa is slowly becoming an oasis of chaos. And instead of African leaders putting their efforts together to solve their crisis peacefully, everybody is buying guns and weapons from the West and killing each other. So I would like to know why that situation occurred. Let's let Dick get in on that. Dick, I did want to ask you earlier. I'm glad Dr. Omotayo raised the question. This whole matter of what's happening in Mr. Simba's country. You got Zimbabwe, Angola, Uganda, Rwanda. This could threaten to get out of hand here, couldn't it? I think what you have to do is look at the big picture. For years, you know, everybody on the planet thought the colonial governments had went in and had raped Africa

out of everything they could get, and they left. Well, with new technology now, and the different types of spacecrafts, we found out that they missed 90 % of the stuff. And everybody's getting ready to go back in now. That's what the whole game is. And not just in these little hotspots, but now. So you can't go in the way you're used to. You've got to go in smiling. President Clinton spent more day in Africa than he spends in the White House. He was over there for 12 days. And so that's what we're looking at. And to leave that part out, we're not over there feeding folks. How much nuclear waste are we dumping in those countries? You know, I'm not about to believe the way we feel about Black folks, this government, that we're going to take guns and force people to eat our food because there's some trifling leaders over there that won't let the food come in. If you go back to the time in EDR men, this government, the press, they referred to him as worst in Hitler in the whole game. For those of you all that do research, if you look up the Dallas Morning News Tuesday, November the 8th,

1977, headlines. You've gone this in forward work to finish training. Despite the expressions of disapproval through about the US State Department, the 12 members of the Ugandan police force will be permitted to complete their helicopter training. This is doing a time when America was calling him the worst thing on the planet, that nobody should have anything to do with him. We sell them helicopters and training them in the army. And so, you know, until we put this whole money thing in and see, not just the American CIA, the French intelligence have a strong grip over there. The British intelligence have a strong grip over there. So, you've got events that just not happening because of some trifling leaders. You've got some events that's being manipulated. They're not making no guns in Africa. Where are these guns coming from? Who's making them? And so, how can these countries be so busy to talk about a moral force and what's going on in Africa and not talk about where are these guns coming from? And finally, you

know, you sit and look at the games that we play with this whole black thing. You get a problem in Africa and the whole Western press paints the whole African continent as savages. But you've got some white folk fighting in Belfast, man. For 50 years, hating each other for 900 years. And they never talk about what savages in Europe. Matter of fact, they say Belfast is a little church thing. I mean, this is Protestant against the capital. There's Bosnia and Serbia and a few other hot spots. Dr. Amitanyu in Washington, thanks for your calling your question and the best to you and all the listeners at WPFW. Mr. Chage in Nairobi. You know? On this question of this conflagration in the Congo, the war in the Congo with the participation of all of these countries in Sub -Saharan Africa, how is that playing in your paper and in the rest of Nairobi? No, it's a good question of interest because it's a question of honor. Kabila was given

very great assistance to get rid of the former dictator Mubu, because given a lot of assistance by Museveni with his two three levels towards the former dictator. But later on, apparently, he turned against the same people who helped him out. Now, there's a feeling in East Africa, unfortunately, we have to say that Museveni and Kagame of Rwada are expressionist and they like to take as much more power, as much more area as possible. So the so -so that now, when Kabila now tries to set away the Museveni and the Tutsis, they're feeling that people want to fight back for Kabila. They like to fight in his expressionist ideas of

Museveni and Kagame. And so the now meeting in South Africa has been very much welcome. Mr. Simba, it's your country. What are your thoughts here? I think I disagree with my friend in Robi about this, because if Museveni and Kagame wanted the eastern of Congo, they could have taken it. From that time, they could have said, we are taking the east of Congo, whoever come, we can fight them. But they helped Kabila to remove Mubu. And there is also another issue. Our two people called before. They were talking about blaming the US and the foreign powers and others. But the arrival of Zimbabwe, Namibia and Namibia. This shows Zimbabwe is the manufacture of guns. I think you have read in the papers that Kabila, oh Mugabe, today again, there is a story that Kabila, oh Mugabe, about $2 billion about guns. Zimbabwe does manufacture guns and nominations, like South Africa does. So the issue, which is there, Zimbabwe, is there just for interest.

There is nothing that Kabila is not democrat. He was not elected. He was brought to power by the same people who is fighting today. I don't agree with the idea of saying that, I don't say anything, and I want to take the Congo, because if they wanted to take it, they could have taken it. By now, the rebel are occupying the eastern Congo. The issue, which is here, is that of, first, non -interference. It is even in the whole of Utah. Countries should not have people who are hostile to neighboring governments. So that's what is going on. Kabila did promise that when he would come into power, he would stop the insurgent from Uganda to operate from the Congo, like he promised to Rwanda. That's the main issue. Now, internally in the Congo, Kabila is not a democrat. He didn't do anything different from Ubuntu. So if the people of the Congo want to rebel, and they get help from outside, that's no help must come from somewhere. Why should we be worried when it comes from our neighbors? If it was the Americans or the French who could have intervened, nobody was going to talk. But

because it is from Uganda, how are brothers in the Rwanda? Everybody is talking about this. As to the Zimbabwean and the others, it is about interest. They've got their manufacturing guns. They have the sold gun to Kabila, and today they are trying to save him from going out. That's what is happening in the Congo. What's the Angolan interest? Angolan's interest is mostly about unitas activities. Unitas, you know, is the movement. Yes, in Angola. And I don't think the Angolan went there for the love for Kabila. It's mostly because the area where Angola was involved is mostly not in Angola where they've got a lot of interest, oil and other. We're coming up on 48 minutes, 30 seconds into the R. We'll, our discussion on foreign correspondents will continue when we come back. Still ahead, on PowerPoint. There's a new call challenging Americans to measure their morality against comfort levels afforded by a robust national economy. Just ahead, in the second hour of PowerPoint, your money or your soul. Bill Clinton and the Marl

and Parrotage stay tuned. This is Public Radio, and you're listening to PowerPoint. Our program will continue in just a moment. We'll be right back. Welcome back. I'm Kenneth Walker. Once again, on Foreign Correspondent, we are talking with Dave Grazias Simba, the Washington Correspondent for La Potential newspaper in Kinshacha,

Peter Chage, the Knight Editor for the East African Standard in Nairobi, and Human Rights Activist Dick Gregory. We're going to go right back to the phones now and talk to Fred in Philadelphia with Station WHY -Y. Welcome to PowerPoint, Fred. Hello. Welcome. Yes, I'm glad to be on your show. Thank you. Yes. The lesson I learned from the bombing in Nairobi is that whoever did the bombing has no regard for African lives. They're ready to kill a thousand Africans in order to get a couple of Americans. Now, the question that comes to mind is my concern about the action of Kenya to send the suspects to the United States rather than trying them there. I think by doing that, Kenya is giving the message that the same message that the terrorists gave, that they really do not care. And I would like to ask if anybody knows

whether the people are going to be tried here in the United States just for the killings that occurred on what is technically American soil. That is the embassies of all the people who were killed and maimed. The other question that I have is, what would Kenya do if a similar bombing occurred without the Americans? Let's see, somebody went on three bombing Nairobi and they caught the suspects. Would they shy away from taking their own responsibility? Thanks for both those questions, Fred. We'll get Mr. Chagay to answer the second one. But I think on the first one, the charges so far that have been filed against the two suspects in New York, as I understand it, only concerns conspiracy to commit crimes against the embassy and embassy personnel there. But thanks for the call and the best of you in Philadelphia and all the listeners at WHY. Why Mr. Chagay? Do you want to try to take a crack at that hypothetical question? If the

Americans weren't involved here, how would the Kenyans perceive? I think this is a question of the international terrorism and the target was the U .S. Embassy. If I think that's not a rise, as to what would happen, if actually the bombing was in Kenya, and did they have nothing to do with America? If it was a bomb which bombed Nairobi, and did they have nothing to do with America, of course the trial would definitely take place in Nairobi. And I do not think that the Kenyans government would shy away from having a trial held in Nairobi. But in this case, because it's a case of international terrorism, and the target was the U .S. Embassy, I should think that the feelings in Nairobi is that since the America has a better mechanism to counteract any kind of terrorism strike, in case there is a retaliation attack, there is a feeling that they are feeling in Nairobi that it is better

for that, for the trial of such a magnitude to be held in the United States because of the fear that the terrorists might strike back, and the United States is in a better position to counteract that. I see. Of course there are some people who are feeling that the Kenyans government has abdicated its responsibility for trying to suspect who killed more than two Arab Kenyans. But there is hope and faith that the trial in America is also going to consider the fact that two more than two hundred and fifty Kenyans died, and it is expected that the drug also, the drug is not just going to be, the concern is not just going to be for the two Americans who died, but the concern is also going to be for the more than two hundred and fifty people who died. Okay. We are going to try to get another quick call in here with Sissy and Baltimore, with station WEAA.

Welcome to PowerPoint Sissy. How are you? I am Mrs. Semba. I am very glad you are on the air, so it is really appropriate. Just a bit of a background. Now, I spent the summer in Johannesburg, South Africa this summer, and was a guest of Congolese family in their home for the entire time. So I had the privilege of reading newspapers every day, but not only that, to receive an entourage of Congolese people, each night who had all kinds of perspectives on what is going on in the Congo. One of the things that was pointed out was that there definitely is a problem between the length of time that Mabutu, Sissy Seiko, was ruling the Congo and the time that Kabila. As my understanding that perhaps Kabila did make a very bad decision, although he had no choice, and using the Rwandis in order to help him

to house Mabutu, you do know that in the Congo for a number of years, the Rwandis have lived very peacefully in their country, or about to be made citizens of their country before this outbreak. I think that one of the large issues is what did happen between the Hutus and the Tutsis and their own land, and I think that part of the problem is that these ethnic Rwandis really have no place to go now. They cannot go back. There's a lot of fear among them, and they have entrenched themselves now into the Congo, and I think this is a major problem. We'll have to leave it there. I want to thank you, Sissy, for that point of view, and thanks for the call. The best of you involved more. All the listeners at station WEAA. I want to thank our guests. They are Graciasimba, Washington correspondent for La Potential newspaper in Kinshasha, Peter Chage, the night editor for the East African Standard in Nairobi, and human rights

activist Dick Gregory will continue in our second hour as we take a look at impeachment or resignation. I'm Kenneth Walker, this is PowerPoint. Good evening. This is Jackie Taylor, calling from Philadelphia. I just want to express my thanks for the quality of your show, and the interview process is very refreshing. I'd like the explicit nature of the topic of the biracial, and I also heard some of Nina Simone last week. I thank you very much and thank the radio station. Thank you. If you would like a tape or transcript of this or any past edition of PowerPoint, or to make listener comments or program suggestions, please call PowerPoint toll -free at 1 -888 -682 -6500. That's 1 -888 -682 -6500. Here's what's coming your way next week on PowerPoint. As the Congressional

Black Caucus prepares to convene distinguished black intellectual -manning marrable joins us to look at issues of black leadership. We'll also look at hip -hop music and black youth culture. All that and PowerPoint news with Werna Avery Brown. Join us. The creators of PowerPoint include senior producer Tony Regusters, producer director Debbie Williams, news anchor Werna Avery Brown, and associate producer Tom Woodwood. Our appoints phone producer is Kay Marshall. Our broadcast production assistant is Eric Lewis. Our appoints NPR broadcast technical director is Neil Tevolte. Legal affairs for PowerPoint are handled by Theodore Brown. Our program announcer is Candy Shannon. PowerPoint's theme is from the CDF stops by Craig Harris. The executive producer is Reggie Hicks. I'm Kenneth Walker. Thanks for listening. PowerPoint is made possible by a grant from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting's radio program fund. This is

PowerPoint, a production of Hicks and Associates. Music This is PowerPoint and I'm Kenneth Walker in Washington, D .C. For weeks, opinion polls in media have suggested that America is willing to overlook the president's adultery and sexual misbehavior in order to maintain the economic status quo. We'll talk about that and more when PowerPoint continues. Music Music

Music Production and broadcast of PowerPoint is made possible by a grant from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Music This is PowerPoint, an information age clearinghouse for issues affecting

the African -American community, the nation and the world. And now, PowerPoint's Kenneth Walker. There are a lot of rhetorical stones being thrown around in Washington, D .C. these days. One big stone this past week was lopped through the front window of the White House by Senator Joseph Lieberman, a Democrat from Connecticut. But the first stone was thrown two weeks ago by the chief priest of the Washington National Cathedral in a Sunday sermon, August 24. In that sermon, Reverend Nathan Baxter, an African -American chastised the American public for turning a blind eye to the moral imperative regarding America's prosperity under Bill Clinton. And challenged the president's insistence that his problems with Monica Lewinsky are a private matter. What do you think? Does America have its head in the sand? Would we rather be rich than right? And what invisible effect is all this having on America's next generation on our children? We'll discuss all that and more with Dr. Clarence Lusain, Professor

of Political Science at American University, Human Rights Activist Dick Gredgrey, Dr. Yvonne Scrugg's left -witch of the Black Leadership Forum, Progressive Political Analyst, Bill Zavarello, and you. You indeed can join the discussion by calling the PowerPoint hotline at 1 -800 -989 -8255. That's 1 -800 -989 -8255. Our discussion begins in a moment. But first, PowerPoint news with Werna Avery Brown. For PowerPoint news and information to empower the community, I'm Werna Avery Brown. If the federal government shuts down on October 1st, White House Chief of Staff Erskine Bowles says it will be the fault of Congress, not the White House. In a taped interview on CNN Bowles said, Congress has been in session this entire year. They haven't passed a budget. They haven't submitted one appropriations bill to us

for ratification. The spending legislation must be in place by October 1st to keep the government operating. Bowles denied that Clinton might force a government shutdown to divert attention away from the Monica Lewinsky scandal. Indianapolis Representative Dan Burton admitted this weekend that he had an extramarital relationship in the early 1980s and fathered a child. The conservative Indiana Republican has been leading an investigation into President Clinton's finances and last April called President Clinton a scumbag. Burton says the scumbag remark was not a reference to Clinton's relationship with Monica Lewinsky. The alleged rape and murder of seven -year -old Sherice Iverson has prompted U .S. Representative Nick Lampson of Texas to propose federal legislation mandating that states put in place a good Samaritan law. Jeremy Strowmeyer allegedly raped and murdered the unattended seven -year -old girl in a public restroom at a Nevada casino. And his best friend David Cash has stated publicly that he saw Strowmeyer

assaulting the girl but did nothing to prevent the assault. Cash also admits he failed to report the murder to police because he had no connection to the girl and was more concerned about his best friend's future. Cash cannot be prosecuted under Nevada law because that state lacks a good Samaritan law. Congressman Lampson told PowerPoint News his legislation will hopefully change that. The bill calls for each state to enact legislation that would punish one who witnesses an act of harm to a particularly a child, to another person. We want those states to react and we will put incentives for states to act that will be financial in nature. But we believe it is necessary that instead of having the federal government mandate an action that we place and incentive within the law that allows the states to react on their own so that it is controlled at a local level, but done in such a way that there will be an effective act put into place to punish a person who does not act in this

common sensible manner. States failing to enact that Samaritan laws could lose federal child protection grant funds. Congressman Lampson, founder of the Congressional Missing and Exploited Children's Caucus will announce his proposal on Wednesday. Thousands turned out Saturday for the Million Youth March in Harlem, despite New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani's efforts to discourage participation after verbal confrontations with one of the Marches organizers, Colin Muhammad. Giuliani sent in a brigade of cops about 3 ,000 officers were on hand. Kevin Johnson, who took his nine -year -old son to the rally and carried a sign saying, jobs not jail, commented sadly about the police barricades that this is like being in jail. While the controversial Muhammad has received much press coverage for his racist remarks regarding Jews, the Pope, and homosexuals, senior researcher Steve Rindle at Fairness and Accuracy in reporting says, Giuliani is in no position to take the moral high ground. It's a 1993 Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, actually

at the time, Mayoral candidate Rudolph Giuliani sat one -on -one in studio with Bob Grant, a very highly rated talk show host, here in New York City, who's had his troubles, because he's been accused over and over again of gutter racist speech. Anyway, Giuliani sat across from him, one -on -one in the studio. While Bob Grant referred to Charles Rangel, the black congressman from Harlem, as a pygmy, the mayor said nothing about this until the next day when he was called on it by News Day, the paper. What's interesting about that is that he was doing. He knew he could not challenge Bob Grant on air because Bob Grant's listeners were his base. Steve Rindle of Fairness and Accuracy in reporting, speaking on Pacifica Radio's morning show democracy now. Up next, on PowerPoint News, is the American public turning a blind eye to President Clinton's behavior out of respect for his privacy or respect for America's prosperity? If you want

to weigh in on this discussion, give us a call at 1 -800 -989 -8255. For PowerPoint News and Information to Empower the Community, I'm Verna Avery Brown. A brother took a monkey for a ride in the air. The monkey thought that everything was on the square. The brother tried to throw the monkey off his back, but the monkey grabbed his neck, said, now listen, Jack. Straighten up and fly right. Coop down, pop, but don't you blow your top? Ain't no use in diving. What's the use of jiving? Straighten up and fly right. Coop down, pop, but don't you blow your top? The buzzer

told the monkey you were choking me. Really show hope, and I will set you free. The monkey looked the buzzer at dead in the eye and said, your story is so touching, but it sounded just like a lie. Straighten up and fly right. Straighten up and stay right. Straighten up and fly right. Coop down, pop, but don't you blow your top? Welcome back, I'm Kenneth Walker. What was unthinkable just a few months ago and what the polls say most Americans still do not want is fast becoming entirely thinkable in the current environment in Washington. The resignation or impeachment of President William Jefferson Clinton. With Democratic governors, senators, and congressmen beginning to distance themselves

from the President following his admission that he's been lying about his relationship with Monica Lewinsky, the question of the President's survival may hang on the contents of a report being prepared by a special prosecutor, Kenneth Star. And that's the focus of PowerPoint this hour. As always, we want to know what our listeners think. Can President Clinton survive this scandal? Do Americans care more about an economy that while still robust is showing signs of weakness? Should African Americans, the President's strongest supporters, be prepared to go down with the President's ship if it comes to that? You can join this discussion by calling the PowerPoint hotline at 1 -800 -989 -8255. That's 1 -800 -989 -8255 to help guide our exploration and we have continuing with us from our first hour, human rights activist Dick Gregory. And Dr. Clarence Lusain is on the phone. He's a professor of political science at American University. Here at our studios,

we're also joined by Dr. Yvonne Scruggs -Leftwitch of the Black Leadership Forum and political analyst, Bill Zavarello. Everyone, welcome. Thank you. Hello, God bless. Dr. Yvonne Scruggs -Leftwitch, let's start with you. Black people seem to have the most vested in President Clinton. And it's beginning to at least be tenable that we might wind up losing a whole lot with this guy. If he's forced out of office, what do you think? Well, first of all, I think a lot of the impression of whether or not he has done something that's impeachable is a function of the interpretation of the media. I haven't seen a thing that Kenneth Starr has written. And Kenneth Starr has spent four years and $40 million getting together just enough to now have forced this president to be subpoenaed and to do things that a president has never had to do in the history of this country in spite of unsavory behavior

by a number of presidents. I think that the more I hear about whether or not he is going to be impeached or is going to resign, the more I understand the disaffection of people outside the beltway with this stuff that I've made my life profession, which is politics, this is ridiculous. I'm looking at these people stepping up the mic, who invited the congressman or the senator from New Hampshire, Connecticut. I got Paris Glendending, who's hanging on by his fingernails to a vote who is... Is the governor of Maryland? As governor of Maryland is rushing out to distance himself from the president. But he did so on the basis of polls that told him that Democrats in Maryland are increasingly disaffected with the president. Well, Democrats in Maryland also are increasingly disaffected with Paris Glendending and he was not endorsed by Kurt Schmoke or by of the county executive from Prince George's county Wayne Curry. And he better

pay attention to his home base and figure out what's going to get him reelected and say, you know, I'm just so angry because I look at what has happened for African Americans with this president, not necessarily with this administration, but with this president with over 600 African Americans appointed to positions which we've never held before many of them with this particular president initiating a race initiative which gets to the issue of talking about and then going beyond that on this whole intractable matter of segregation and prejudice. And I cannot help but believe that a lot of the focus on his unacceptable behavior. I will not say that what he did was acceptable. I think he ought to apologize and I think ought to be ashamed of himself. And I'm pissed with him too because he's causing this distraction. But the fact of the matter is we have gained more and we have more to

gain with this president than has happened in a long time. And I've got to believe that to some extent the vendetta against him is related to that. Bill Zavarello, the president himself has never claimed to be particularly liberal. He's in fact one of the founders of the Democratic Leadership Conference, that group of Democratic centrists that was quite pointed in some of its opposition to traditional liberal programs. What does this controversy, the potential resignation or impeachment of Bill Clinton do for the progressive agenda in the United States, you think? Well, that's an interesting question. One of the things I have realized in myself as I've been personally let down by the behavior of the president is that this isn't the first time that I've felt outraged or even morally outraged at the actions of political leaders, including this president, for example, when he, the way the president treated Lani Gweneer, offended me personally. It was outrageous and

I think it said something about his character. I thought that at the time, when he signed a well -here reform bill before his re -election campaign began in earnest. Again, I felt like that was an act with moral implications. And I think a lot of people felt that way and feel that way about political leaders all the time. What strikes me as dangerous in this particular instance and what I really agree with what Dr. Strugg said was that we have a situation now where there's a conservative group of conservative activists, a tabloid press, and a mainstream media elite that have sort of converged on this issue and are trying to force on the rest of the American people their idea of the outcome, which is this notion that the president ought to be impeached or he ought to resign, for reasons which

are increasingly disconnected to what most Americans feel about the situation. I think a lot of Americans have a fairly responsible, measured, weight -and -see attitude about the actions about the report from Ken Star and about what the final judgment should be. But as for the effect on the progressive political movement, we're outraged all the time. And we continue to be, and we will be with this president and any other president, but I think that that's sort of the nature of politics in particular, particularly politics in the United States. Dr. Clarence Lusain, it's clear that when Kenneth Star introduces his report, considering the lack of which he has pursued the president over the last four years, that certainly some in Congress got to be able to find something they can describe as an impeachable offense

there. What do you suspect is likely to be the dynamic in Congress, especially since you find increasing numbers of democratic legislatures, legislatorialist distancing themselves from the president? I think that the president is in a bit of trouble. The way I look at it, I think, is his strategy of triangulation. It's about to become a process of strangulation. As you know, the president, for most of his terms and office, has attempted to distance himself not just from the Republicans, the right -wing Republicans in Congress, but also from the Democrats to great degree. And if you look at all of the critical legislation both from the early years, NAFTA, the welfare crime bill, all the way up to recent legislation, that all of that legislation passed out of a coalition that the president put together of moderate Democrats. And moderate Republicans, that political space is evaporating. And progressive

Democrats, and even liberal Democrats, have been increasingly dissatisfied with this president. Even as his approval ratings have been extremely high over the last year or so, he still has failed to support critical issues that Democrats wanted pass. One example, the needle exchange, and the report that came out that showed that needle exchange would help in stopping the spread of AIDS. And there were many Democrats that wanted that legislation passed in support from the administration to fund that, and Bill Clinton wouldn't do it. And so I think that you've got Democrats on the hill now who may not necessarily even publicly go out against the president, but they're also going to be very reluctant to jump on the bandwagon in a campaign to defend the president. Now, I think that for African Americans and for other constituencies who I think have a mixed record with this administration, have to have a very calculating determination of what is in the best interest of

our constituencies. I think that Kenneth Starr is one of the most reputnant individuals on the public scene today, but the reality is that he's sending up a report. That report is going to absolutely consume Congress for the rest of this year, likely for most of next year, or at least the early parts of next year. And the question is, can Bill Clinton function as president in this atmosphere? That's a good question, Dick Gregory. Can the president function in this atmosphere? Should he in terms of African American interest? Are we better off dumping him now? Well, one of the things, I have a problem, and I think an other answer has to go around about way. If I was in Germany today walking down the street and saw a huge building named after Adolf Hitler, I would know something very evil going inside that building. And yet we can walk down the street here in Washington DC until a brand new FBI building named after Jerry Hoover and not know something

very evil going inside those buildings. And saying that, I say this, I do a radio show on Black radio stations across the country. But I'm saying that I didn't just start saying about five years ago on the Capitol Hughes station with Capitol. I said, there's a little redneck from Arkansas who really don't know what this country is all about. We do stuff in this country that would make Hitler blush. And I said then on that station, Stevie Wonder station in LA and Chicago, WBON, that he'll be a real actor, but he won't finish his term out. So I have a group of people that listens to me that I happened just on the 14th of August of last year, Kathy and I was on the show. And I said, you know, pull a little die. She probably be dead by the end of the month. And why? Because there's little thugs here in LA where he keeps saying he's happy, he's Egyptian, he'll brother like me. And if you think that throne is going to let some half brothers be African now, I say all that to say this. When you look at what's going

on with this president had had Monica Lewinsky's name been Tamika Jones, the boy would have been out to White House. Let's stop playing all these old games. The other thing is this. She would have at least taken a dress to the dry cleaners. Well, you know, the sad thing about that dress is we all are duped such idiots by the intelligence. We forgot that the FBI had that dress six months ago and say they didn't find anything on it. Then they come right and do. And you all remember that? They had that dress. And they said they didn't find anything on it. Then they come right back. Let me tell you why all these people are talking about jumping ship now. There's a report out newsweek is supposed to come out with it. It ran in the Washington Times the other day in a little bird. It says newsweek magazine quotes a knowledgeable source of saying stars report include some sexual encounters between Clinton and Miss Lewinsky that the details of which will make people want to throw up. Let's talk about a cigar.

Let's don't play no games with it because that's what they're talking about. There's a report that circulate in one the city paper in Washington DC ran it. The British paper is running it all over Britain. The cigar, her, him, and Arifat and what they're really talking about. And once I tell you this, didn't you know what's going on with the center? Do you know what's going on with the governor? In the Ken report and I'm amazed everybody. He's been 40 million dollars when they busted Mary and Barry. There's been 50 million dollars when they're by complaining about that. 50 million dollars to catch a user. You know, not a push here. 50 million dollars gets a user. And so consequently what this game is about. Now, I'm not getting involved with saying is it true or not? I'm saying that when he went before the grand jury and the reason he was so shook up that I know Bill. I know he's one of the bright minds. He's one of the clever, one of the winners. When I watched him that night, you know, I said either he'd start using some bad dope

or he's going insane because that's not Bill. What it's about is they asked him at the grand jury about this cigar that Monica said he put up in her vagina and masturbated while he's doing it. And while that was going on, Arifat was sitting in the front room. Now, I'm not getting into is it real or not? That's why you see in these people jump here. That's why it's about. And most black folks is the last ones to hear about it. That's why you see in these white folks it's been very close to him and very friendly to him. But I've got some problems with the first picture that showed Monica on the White House lawn hugging him. When you look at those pictures and those of you at home that famous picture, everybody on the lawn have on summer short white t -shirts. She has a beret and a winner outfit. And I've said ever since I've looked at this picture, this is a computer picture. Now, if I know that, the White House have to know that. When you look at this picture two weeks ago at Time Magazine. If you look, they show the crowd, they show the president there. If you look at the

president and Monica's head, that have been lighted. The rest of this picture have been lighted. And when you look into this picture, there's a hand, three people back, deep moving up. No secret service agent will never let in. All these are computer pictures. If I know this, don't tell me Time Magazine. Don't know it and don't tell me the White House don't know. So I have a problem trying to sit here and deal with some straight questions. When I always felt it's a conspiracy and I put it this way. I thought he had about six weeks, two weeks ago, or 90 days. I bring that down to three weeks now. It won't be nothing but no impeachment, be a resignation. Of course, one thing's going to leak out after another, after another. And the interesting thing, we seem to forget that Kenneth Starquit. And then he bumped into that real government. And he went back and out of all the things everybody said about Kenneth Star. They never mentioned the fact that he's quit. And when you see him on number, he quit. We remember that. Why would they say he didn't remember? I'm saying it. Nobody's talking about it. We're talking, we're talking with Dr. Clarence Lucien, political science professor at American University. Dr. Yvonne Scrugg's left -witch of the

Black Leadership Forum, political analyst, Bill Zeverello, and human rights activist Dick Gregory. We're talking about the impeachment potential or resignation of President Clinton. You can join this discussion by calling the PowerPoint hotline at 1 -800 -989 -8255. That's 1 -800 -989 -8255. However pornographic and however purient the testimony and the facts may or may not be. The fundamental question is, is this impeachable? Yes, it is unacceptable. Yes, it's offensive. Yes, it's not what we talk about. You don't talk about people's personal and private behavior. But is it impeachable? And I do believe that this has been... And impeachment is what the House of Representatives says it is. Yes, but there are some rules, Ken. I mean, you can't just dream up why it's going to be impeachable. What are the rules? There are rules. Where are the rules? I can't comment. No,

but there... Maybe Dr. Roussain as a political scientist professor can weigh in on this. Well, but the Founders deliberately took impeachment outside of the legal process, standards for indictments and confelonies and misdemeanors. And made it an entirely a political decision. I think you can. It has to do with the government and what has to do with the performance of the person holding the office. It does not have to do with what his loyalty is and his marriage relationship. Dr. Roussain. I think impeachment is going to clearly be a political and subjective determination. But to me, the real question is, even short of full impeachment, will his administration be so destabilized and so distracted? And will he have lost so much political and moral capital? That in effect, he's not only lame duck, he's a dead duck from now on. And does that mean then for the next two years that we simply sit back and just watch this unfold? Even if he's not out of office, it means that any agenda item that the African -American community, progressive community,

women's rights, any agenda item that could possibly come through, for example, a Gore White House is absolutely DOA coming out of a Clinton White House under that atmosphere. So it seems to me, those are the calculations that we have to make. I think you're absolutely right, Dr. Scruggs, that this will be not based on anything that we have historically thought was impeachable. For example, the Richard Nixon case. But I think it's still a question of politically, can we survive in this atmosphere? Is the president worth the trouble at this point builds that really well? Well, I think that the process is something that warrants at least serious contemplative consideration by the Congress. I mean, I don't think it's an accident that in the history of this country, only one president has been impeached and only one president has resigned. I think, no matter what you say about the founding fathers, and I think that there are differing views about

how a clear or explicit the standard was meant to be for impeachment, I think that it was certainly meant to be something that was not done with any frequency. And I think that that's the way it's played out. I think what we're talking about is undoing a democratically held election. And I think that we all have some stake in whether we like Bill Clinton or whether we like Richard Nixon or Ronald Reagan or anybody else. There is some stake in our going through a process and not just at the whim of, and this is what's really touching, at the whim of journalists and the media at this point, that that is enough for there to be impeachment and or resignation. I just want to underscore one point right here, because I think the question that I've heard a lot of talk about where this president is weakened and his agenda is dead. I think that that's arguably true, but what

is really fascinating when you think about that question, the reason that is is not that people in the country have lost faith in him or in his policies in particular. There are not polls that I've heard about where his agenda is not popular with the American people. It's the media that thinks that he is weakened and therefore he is. We're talking about the potential resignation or impeachment of President William Jefferson Clinton. We're coming up on 29 minutes after the hour when we come back from the break. We want to talk to you, our listeners, about what you think, about President Bill Clinton. We'll continue when we come back. Internet services for PowerPoint are provided by World African Network, offering news, information, sports and entertainment for African and African -American communities through broadband and new media technologies. The web address is www .wainonline

.com That's www .wainonline .com You're listening to Public Radio and this is PowerPoint with Kenneth Walker. Welcome back. We are talking with Human Rights Activist Dick Gregory, Political Analyst, Bill Zaverello, Dr. Ivan Skugg's Leftwich of the Black Leadership Floor and Dr. Clarence Lucane, a political science professor at American University. You can join our discussion on President Bill Clinton and the Monica Lewinsky scandal by calling the PowerPoint

hotline at 1 -800 -989 -8255. That's 1 -800 -989 -8255. We're now going to go to the phones and talk to Winford in Philadelphia with station WHY -Y. Welcome to PowerPoint, Winford. Hello, Mr. Walker. How are you, sir? First of all, I wanted to clarify a point that your first, one of your first panel made, the lady on your panel. I think she was trying to attack, just can't stop. Just can't stop getting in the first place ghetto from his chambers to go after the President of the United States. He was chosen, I think, and I guess, by the Attorney General. Well, as a technical matter, he actually is chosen by a three -judge federal court panel here in Washington. Yes, and he accepted it and the letter he refused it and came back again. I want to clear that point,

that if the President were to have said yes from the beginning, this $4 million, $40 million that the leader was talking about, that everybody is talking about, wouldn't have been like that. Probably it would have been only $1 million. And on my two point, I wanted to clear this. President Nixon did not do anything directly. He knew about what I'd get breaking, but he didn't say anything about it, and he was forced to resign. We are not comparing Nixon's problem and the President Clinton's problem. But President Clinton did something direct, which is such a misconduct. So if you want to analyze these two things, if President Nixon was forced to resign, he should either resign or be impeached. All

right. H -Y -Y, we now want to talk to Victor and Houston with station KTSU. Welcome. Victor, you with us? I guess not. Let's talk to Barry and Houston with KTSU. Welcome to PowerPoint, Barry. I do have a problem with their personal attack and viciousness against Kenneth Starr. So Starr is doing his job. He has to follow the evidence wherever it leads. I also feel to see anything progressive about keeping people dependent on welfare. My questions, though, are that William Clinton is disgraced to the red, white, and blue, and disgraced it over the office. And he's got to go. I think, well, what is impeachable is entirely for Congress to decide. As you know, last century, President Johnson was impeached for trying to fire a cabinet member. That's President Andrew Johnson. Yeah, the fact that he lost all more authority, there can be no doubt. What he can get anything through Congress is a question. And I think that what he has done is disgraceful. And the beginning of the end came last week when Senator Joseph Lieberman took the Senate floor. This man has been a friend of the President Clinton and said, this

is immoral. So, I mean, I find the panel to be somewhat of apologists for what I think immoral and very despicable and disgusting acts by the head of state. Actually, Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York and Senator Kerry of Nebraska joined in that condemnation that Senator... Okay, and a staffed question for Mr. Big Gregory, who knows who is intimately familiar with the CIA. I mean, the CIA director, your regular are made for dinner or lunch or... I'll be curious to find how Mr. Gregory knows so much more about the CIA than anyone else does. Well, let's get dicked in on that. And the rest of the panel on the other questions. Thanks, Barry, for the call, the questions. The best of you in Houston, all the listeners at KTSU. I do want to, after Dick deals with, how often he has dinner with the director of the Central Intelligence, I do want to deal with this question of morality in terms of, you know, if it's wrong, it's wrong. And if kids are made to understand that you can do wrong and get away

with it or at least suffer no obvious consequence, what are we saying to them? But, Dick, let's talk about your restaurant habits with the Central Intelligence. You don't have to be validated by ignorance. I learned that a long time ago. You hear someone come up and throw this old welfare stuff? Well, brother, you and Houston, I don't have no problem with welfare. I'm the president of my company, and I enjoy welfare. When I arrived at playing first class, I write off on the income tax. And last year, the American airplane companies along gave $450 million worth of free whiskey away to us writing first class. And you chumps don't say nothing about that, but if a welfare mother wants some apple juice, you want some apple food. Well, let me tell you something. I would like to see all the welfare mothers move to Canada and say, mail my check over here and call it foreign aid. And none of y 'all seem to be upset and worried about that, but you can always pick on the week. But when the powerful is really ripping off the whole government, you don't have anything to say about that now. As far as the CIA dinner, I read.

I do research. I've got researchers out here. I do my homework. And my record speaks for itself. The book, Mark Lane, and I did is the call to the Kennedy King assassination investigation. So I'm not just somebody to come up lately. And I'm one of the few people that will dare say it before it happened. And then everybody wants to say, I'm a prophet. I'm just saying, I'm nothing. I read the paper. I got the London observer of Sunday, the 23rd of August. Now, you can't find no better friend to America than England. Here's the headlines after we finish bombing the Sudan. Clinton bombed civilians on purpose. Americans test show no trace of nerve gas and deadly sight. President ordered attack anyway. No, that was the CIA tricked him. Now, a week later, the Chicago Tribune followed suit. Smoking gun for Sudan's race now is in doubt. The next

day, the New York Times headline flows in US account -raised questions about strike. I just spent a whole lot of time reading papers from all over the world. And I put it together. No more, no less. I don't have to have dinner with nobody. And so that's all I got to say about that. Well, you know, Dr. Scruggs, the fact remains that if the economy was in the toilet and George Bush or some other Republican was in the White House and the subject of these charges, we'd be leading the charge down Pennsylvania, wouldn't we? Yeah, now, I don't want to remind you of one of my college things, which is if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. Yes, but it is not. It is not in the toilet. And the approval rating as my political analyst colleague over here Bill has pointed out, is very high. I just want to remind us, let's dispose of this Ken Star business. People are coming at us over the mic that we're not attacking Ken Star. Ken Star was brought

on to investigate Watergate. Watergate. I'm sorry, well, yes, like water. And then he was investigating Travelgate. And now he's looking in Monica Lewinsky's bedroom and in her closet and her dirty clothes hamper. And I think that's absurd. Yes, immoral behavior is immoral. But this is ridiculous to have all of this personal. Do you realize how many people now are stepping up to the mic and declaring that they too have been immoral? Because the light is now shining on everybody's private business. You had Dan Burton, who has fathered an illegitimate child and who is now Mia Copa about that. He's also the chairman of the House. He's chairman of the House of Reform Committee. That is a government reform committee that's investigating. Right. And he is the one who called Clinton a scumbag. So now we're spending a lot of time having a lot of news about this. Look, it is distracting. It is an intentional distraction. It is

to do exactly what was pointed out earlier to keep an agenda of substance and change from moving forward in this government. How do you respond to Dr. Hussein's earlier point that African Americans, especially in this period of time, need to be very calculating in terms of their interests about whether or not we support this man for the balance of the two years. No, no. I think what African Americans need to do is vote. Nobody lives at the national level. We got a lot of problems in local communities. In African American youth from 18 to 25 are voting at less than 20%. There are governors running. There are mayor's running. There are local issues that bear directly on their quality of life. African Americans do have to be calculating. And the first calculation has to be an effective powerful part of the democratic process. In some of the states where some of this distraction is being fermented and fermented by Congress people, more

than 25 % of the population voting age population is African American. We've got to keep people focused on the issues that are important. I agree with Dick Gregory. There's nothing wrong with welfare, but there is something wrong with there being no job training and job development so people can work and can make a decent living. That the money that needs to be available to help entrepreneurs get a leg up is being withdrawn. And the whole issue of the I -200 out in Washington and the anti -affirmative action thrusts that are multiplying across the country have direct impact on people of color, people of low income, and women. And these are the issues that we ought to be focusing on instead of spending all of this time and all of this air time. And then news time and ink on something that has to do in the final analysis with one individual's moral compass. Let's go back to the phones and talk to Phyllis and Columbia South Carolina with station WLTR. Welcome to Harvard. This question is directed to Mr. Dick Gregory. Do you think that

President Clinton is being persecuted for his affinity with African Americans, many of whom he has put into power? Or do you think that the media -slash politicians are really concerned with the moral issue of Monica Lewinsky? I think it's neither one. I think it's a conspiracy. That's why I said, you know, like six years ago, two years into his first term, that I thought he'd be real elected, but he wouldn't finish it out. Now you have to understand, when you get people like me who looks at funny things, go down. I was one of the ones that defended Richard Nixon because I thought that was a conspiracy to do nothing but get Rockefeller in the White House. And when Ford was shot at in San Francisco, had they shot straight, Rockefeller would have been in the White House. We would have had a man that's vice president and not one vote by the American people. And I felt that day when they missed it, they was hatching a product to do it again. And I don't think it's an accident that Jay Rockefeller happens to be the only Rockefeller in the history of Rockefeller family that's Democrat. And I'm going to say this to you now. I will be shocked and

surprised. I'm not talking about what I want to see happen. I'm just talking about after you read and analyze that if this man is stealing off his six weeks from now. See, we failed to forget all this old impeachment stuff and all this crap. Let me tell you. If a welfare mother was murdered today, her name probably wouldn't even make the papers. But three days from now, if someone chopped her up and put her in various garbage to contain us around the city, it would make worldwide news. We don't care about you. It's the way we want you. And this is what's going to happen here. They ain't got nothing to do with his morality, his integrity, his right. When they start leaking this stuff out and you've got democracies out there that's going to be running for their life, you're going to see a whole lot of strange things happen. They're going to go to him and say, man, get out of here. Phyllis, thanks for the call in the question, the best of you in Columbia and all the listeners at WLTR. Let's talk to Rick and Montgomery, Alabama with station WVAS. Welcome to PowerPoint, Rick. Rick, are you with us?

Yes, good afternoon. Welcome. I just wanted to express my opinion. Right ahead. It's a sad situation. What is going on and out in this country, shall I say. The president, he's a politician. We have local politicians and black communities all over the country. So my point is the sister that was just previously on, she is stressed to the point. We waste a lot of valuable time in every professional aspect in this system that we exist. It's a blessing. This is nothing new what is happening to this particular president. Among other presidents, it's a history. Matter of fact, the things that are going on now have been in existence thousands and thousands of years ago. And I say that because it is very important that we, as

Afro -Americans in this country, do the best of our ability to focus on the basics. I study anthropology, black ancient history. And I thank God to have this opportunity as a human, as a black man. But I want to express very strongly, air time, I know it costs. And I pray that black leaders and politicians that are out there, that they would focus more on inner city, our children, our economic base. Okay, Rick, we're going to have to leave it there. We've got a lot of calls we're trying to get them in. I want to thank you for the call, the best of you in Montgomery, and all of this is at WVAS. Let's talk to Greg and Philadelphia with station WHY -Y. Welcome to PowerPoint, Greg. Hi, how are you doing tonight? Okay. Thank you very much for taking my call. I just wanted

to say that immediately after President Clinton gave his apology, the first one, I guess. Many of the news programs that I saw afterwards had on the street interviews with people asking, well, what do you think about this? What do you think about that? And many of the women that I saw spoken to took the attitude, or they said that, well, he's just a man, you know, men do that. That kind of thing happens with men. And I'm just, I'm just this guy, I'm married 10 years, I've got three kids. And the idea that the leader of our country would, you know, whether or not what's going on really happened. I mean, he did his confession and whatnot. But you conspiracy theorists, please excuse my political naivete concerning this. But

that the idea would be propagated that all men, married men, men in general, are these flandering dogs, and that it is an acceptable thing. And that you should just shake your head and, you know, say, well, that's the way things are. Really bothers me like crazy. Because it's not the way I live my life. And I suppose that my life isn't necessarily the standard for everybody. Okay. Okay, Greg. Yeah. Thanks again for that call and the observation, the best of you in Philly. All the listeners at WHYY. Let's talk to Charles and Sumter South Carolina with station WRJA. Welcome to PowerPoint Charles. Good evening, Kenneth. Sounds like you're having a good discussion tonight. I have a quick rhetorical tongue -in -cheek question. And then I would like to make a couple comments. I think might add something to mention to the

discussion. Quickly, please. If I may, do you think the Monica Lewinsky dress will ever go on display in the Clinton Presidential Museum, assuming the museum ever gets completed? Probably not. Now, what are your other comments? Okay. I think one thing that seems to not being discussed is the nature of the Monica Lewinsky. The relationship that is Clinton is being compared with other presidents that have had various affairs, I guess, some in some amount of office. But I think, at least it's clear to me, I think that this was not an affair, but was a sexual relationship, which came under the heading of sex relations. And I don't think that that would compare with road with roads belts,

affairs, fair or opportunities, or Eisenhower's with his driver. That's my feeling. But a thing that really upsets me about this, I'm a senior citizen. Well, I don't think we have time for that, Charles, because we're coming up on 48 minutes, 30 seconds into the hour, which means that we're going to have to take a break. But I do want to thank you for that call and that observation, the best of you in Sumter. Our discussion about the potential resignation or impeachment of President Clinton will continue when we come back. Here's what's coming your way next week on PowerPoint. As the Congressional Black Caucus prepares to convene distinguished black intellectual manning Marable joins us to look at issues of black leadership. We'll also look at hip -hop music and black youth culture. All that in PowerPoint news with Werner Avery Brown. Join us. This is Public Radio, and you're listening to PowerPoint. Our

program will continue in just a moment. Thank you very much. Welcome back. Once again, we're

talking about the potential resignation or impeachment of President Bill Clinton. Dr. Scrugg, you wanted to respond to Greg's comment in Philadelphia about how he feels as a married man that this attitude that boys will be boys offensive. I think he's right to be offended, and I think that there isn't any question in my mind that the behavior that I know anything about of the president is offensive behavior. The point is that this should not be our priority concern as we look at how this government functions and how the American people are being served by this government. The reason that we know so much about President Clinton's behavior as objectionable as it may be is because someone in Afghanistan and others have been prying

into an area which here to for has been off limits for everybody. The press certainly investigators and certainly people evaluating the performance of the president. I don't know anything about Franklin Roosevelt's relationship with the woman who is his missing. I don't know anything about John Kennedy and whom he had in the White House because it was the considered judgment of the media and others not to pry in this man's personal life. And so I can't say whether what Clinton has done was better or worse or in different. But the point is that we don't elect the president to be our husband. We elect the president to run this country. And to tell us the truth. Well, yes, but it depends. I also think we ought to be real clear about what questions we're asking. Was he responsible for white water? That's a valid question. Did he have a sexual relationship with Monica

Lewinsky? I am not Hillary Clinton. I don't care. You know, the news thing has changed. I think the moral and the political questions do come together though. Because on the one hand, I do think that people in this country not only elect the president because they want the president to run the country efficiently. But I think there is a belief in this country that unlike the Charles Barkley that people are electing the role model. And whether we agree with that or not, that has a real salience across this country. So that's part of this dissonance that people are feeling about. Yeah, I think the country is fine. But do I want my children watching the news? The whole news meter have changed when you talk about Roosevelt. When Harry Truman used to take his mornin' walks and when the discussion would come up about Negro, he used the word negative. And no press would ever report that. The president did not dare say that today. He'd be out of the way. So you can't compare the news media today. It's totally different. Totally different. Completely. Completely. And I say this is actually the post -OJ news atmosphere that we're in. That pretty much took the

gloves off everything and so everything is open. That's why it seems to me that we should now have a certain moral outrage at what Clinton did. But also political outrage because in the middle of this investigation by Ken of Star, where they were looking for anything possible that they could find, this apparently is when he began that relationship. And the problem wasn't just how that affected his family, how that affected his whole personal side, but they also meant that if it got exposed, his political agenda was out the window. And that's where it seems to me. There should be also some anger about the judgment that he used in the middle of all of this. But I think there is. I mean, there's a lot of anger. I mean, I think it's funny with the statements that these senators have made in the last several days. People are acting as though this is the first time anyone's said anything critical of the president. I haven't since April 17th or whenever that day was. I haven't heard anyone stand up and say, that was cool, Mr. President, way to go. I mean, this man has been getting

reamed morally. People are outraged. There's no question about that. But I think what is sort of difficult in this process is our people comfortable. I mean, people have been voting for flawed candidates forever. I can't think of a perfect president and I can think of plenty of very flawed presidents that we've had. Many of whom are quite revered in the history of the country. But what I think really strikes a lot of people and this is really a potential downside of this entire saga as odd is that. Excuse me. Why do you think of that, Bill? Let me, I want to get in a few moments we have left our panel. If you had the president's ear and could advise him on what, if anything, he could or should do. Dr. Hussein, starting with you, what would that be? Well, I think pretty much the White House is doing everything you can. This is not a group of dumbbells over there. So they're making the right... But the president, according to a lot of people, is freezing out

a lot of his advisors and making all of these decisions himself. What would you tell us? Certainly, but I think that's, I would tell him that at this point, he actually does have to schedule a discussion with the American public. Because I think until there's a sense that he's engaging people directly and that has not scripted, has not been filtered through his legal things with a star. That will be the only question I think he has, as these charges go, as this report goes up to Capitol Hill. I would tell him that, you know, from what I've been looking at and the way I read it, here's beyond the point of no return. And this report will probably never get up to Capitol Hill. Dr. Scruggs? Well, I want to be a little more hopeful. I agree with Dr. Who's saying. It seems to me that Bill Clinton's strength has always been his ability to communicate directly with his constituents. And I would urge him to do that and to not

stonewall. Bill, quickly. Look, I am not going to underestimate this president. We've all done it a lot. I think he's got to continue to try to stick to the issues and hopefully he'll be able to weather this storm of the report. And there's nothing worse than it than we've already heard. Resign will be impeached. That's been the question on PowerPoint. This is Kenneth Walker. Here's some listener feedback from the PowerPoint comment line. Good evening. This is Jackie Taylor, calling from Philadelphia. I just want to express my thanks for the quality of your show. And the interview process is very refreshing. I'd like the explicit nature of the topic of the biracial. And I also heard some of Nina Simone last week. I thank you very much and thank the radio station. Thank you. It's my name is Eugene and I'm calling from Atlanta.

I was very interested in the comments today about isolation felt by the Millado children. And I was, I could emphasize, well not emphasize, but sort of understand what they were going through. And that as a child I had several relations who, you know, being from the same things as I was, were very light -skinned and were very close, you know, to being white. And so these, most of them anyway, did go through several periods of isolation and that they were ostracized by both the black parts of their family and the white parts of their family. So I would like to know that I was very pleased with the comments

made. Thank you very much. If you have ideas, suggestions or comments to share about any of our programs call PowerPoints comment line at 1 -888 -682 -6500. That's 1 -888 -682 -6500. PowerPoint is made possible by a grant from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting's Radio Program Fund. This is PowerPoint, a production of Hicks and Associates. Thank you.