KANU News Retention; Election Project

davis yes aline mccain's and welcome to debate ninety six a special presentation of kansas public radio election project for the past sixteen years first district congressman pat roberts has been the voice of western kansas in washington now the dodge city republican who heads the house agriculture committee is seeking a bigger prize a seat in the us senate roberts' decision to run for nancy kassebaum senate seat this year as lead to a major political scramble for his old job on capitol hill on november fifth of voters in the massive first district of kansas that stretches from the colorado border in the west to as far as important in the east will get to choose from three new names to represent than they are republican candidate jerry moran an attorney from hayes who currently serves as senate majority leader in the kansas legislature democrat john devine is a

marketing director from saliva was a former mayor of that central kansas town and the third candidate is libertarian bill earnest retired aerospace worker from wichita or three candidates were recently invited to debate the issues at a forum at the dole center on the campus of kansas state university in manhattan both the republican and democratic candidates responded to that request the libertarian candidate bill earnest chose not to attend a forum is moderated by myself and they'll go to a public affairs director of wichita public television let's join him now first a report about the format for tonight when ten now there is an informal and candid exchange of ideas are no specific time constraints will do is her time fairly and unwisely and this older each other but whatever lot is in a short time and the first issue that we want or is is one that's a very important a very controversial western kansas that's

usual corporate farming and its largely a state issue that obviously federal farm policy has a lot to say about with another the continuing trend and you can say or culture so the question is should federal farm policy encourage or discourage carbon farming your stars of tomorrow thank you very much i think it's important that the reform policy encourage family farming i think all of us i think that the family farm is the most desirable operation but many times the corporate aspect of farming as something that family farmers can avail themselves to it becomes very important in their operations force the success of their are forming situation and i've noticed in kansas as we've had that some increase of critical in the livestock feeding industry of those cars activities have really increased the ability for the family farmer across kansas across western kansas to be able to generate more profits by being able to sell commodities grain and feed in particular to corporate agriculture

so i think there's a way and i clearly we've got to be careful about how we balance and of course the issue that turned that arises when you talk about corporate agriculture or c i don't think the issue normally is is really corporate agriculture the structure of how a farmer operates is for me what form i hear she does business in is not really the issue seems to be the issue the rise of the issue of corporate farming is environmental concerns the quality of air and water and that's really yet in large part unrelated to whether or not an agricultural producers incorporated or not we have individual farmers who are causing problems as wells corporate farmers as part of our moral concerns ability to do is adequately care for a water gun corporate farming it is gonna be here democrat john divine and the concern that i got with and i think the farmer the family farmer has in kansas is are we going to make it a level playing field as a corporate farmer has an advantage over the kansas family

farmer it's not fair and what that may is because when we look back on our history the family farm has supplied as with good quality food at a reasonable price and has helped this country grow to be the country that it is today as important as i have that the family farm has also that's where the attitudes of this country has come from until we gonna do what it takes to protect the family farm in the family farmer says just to be a level playing field and then in the end in the freedom to farm bill when we met a proposal that we add to it and enhance it with a therapist a farm which says the family farmer needs to be on a competitive playing field and if the federal government has to step in and the hope that playing field be fair and that needs to happen you know the thing is we need access to information the large corporate farms today have accessed information because they're appealing all over the world the agriculture department has to make a commitment that it's going to get the same

information out to the local medium size and m and even the large family farmer as quickly as a corporate farmer has that that capability so that turrell survive in a corporate farming environment that would give a level playing field and this point doesn't always happen you get four five people at the pro livestock purchases in the same way with brain purchases and abdullah was significantly year two positions at this point both like the family farm will see corporate farming is probably on the way what i'd like us to job interviews or that when the owners because you sound a lot like a lot of ways probably but the difference as you don't take a proactive position and an additional actions and never think you're an instant does become self bodily we do need some government involvement in setting a level playing field setting of the standards that says that we haven't and i am in our market or other markets are financial markets and says that large corporations can take advantage of the small individual there is that different i'm not sure it or anything

is different over mr devine than that once a republican jerry moran corporate agriculture is an aspect that were near where we want to do things that promote family farming but beyond that i don't know that there's a significant differences between his position among the differences were to take a proactive position we said we'll do two things are needed a washington democrat john divine we will ask to enhance the freedom to farm bill without access to information terrorist acts as an experiment fairness the competition comes in we look at our foreign policy and we gonna have to engage our farmers the capability of we're going to have four agreements nafta debate there it's gonna be a level playing field we can get mexico and canada right over our former chavez under the republican jerry moran i mean i think we would wander into kind of a different topic which is written for minute and the national agricultural policy which seems to me to be a different issue

than corporate farming which as you said earlier is really been a state issue for the last four years during cain's clearly he has been around about everyday agriculture philosophically supports the concept of freedom to farm it is important or to give farmers agriculture producers the opportunity to set to their own guidelines as to what they're going to plant and can develop some additional freedom in and let the market more or less can control that the farming operations rather than the government and so i think for the farmers is really headed in the right direction philosophically it's something that i agree with i think we know i and other others involve agriculture have concerns about freedom to farm as it operates in the future and we don't worry about whether congress is really going to fund the program is in place we've already seen efforts by some in congress to reduce demand funding available this was a perfect year for freedom to farm to come into play i were we had their high prices the higher prices than normal relatively higher prices but without much and

where the money is nothing to sell suffering farm was a positive development this year it appears to me to be positive appeared to be positive in the future but you gotta have the concern is whether it's going to be funded or whether common legislature and congress is going to reduce the funding it available it don't worry about what happens at the end of seven years and is as sad about the level playing field with freedom to farm in a more market driven agriculture is important that congress takes up every effort the president projector takes every effort to avoid the unlevel playing field workers in world trade we really mean i trust our farmers to be able to produce private to have to survive in the world markets we also have to recognize that we have farmers in other countries who were not not playing in the same playing field their governments are supporting them and so this is going to take a significant to caution and monitoring and in order to be able to restore about is the difference though of a visceral difference that borders can look at what it was at this

point and i make a choice and decision to bring a democrat john divine what we talk about another point did your brother think self important is the quality of life that ties back to the large corporate hog farms and the risk of destroying our water system of all of southwest kansas and again i believe are strong and we need a federal standard for water quality our groundwater awkward for to be destroyed and water does not have a political boundary when you go down two or three hundred be at large corporate businesses are using and taking advantage of holding our cities and our state at times hostages for jobs the other issue that comes into that corporate law that there's this really does indicate a difference now i think between mr devine a republican jerry moran and i'm of the opinion that water is certainly an important job issue in kansas of a person who isn't hayes clearly

understands the issue of quality and quantity of water we have had numerous problems set in a part of kansas with this with this topic but i am one who does not support the idea of more federal involvement in issues involving water control and enforcement water quality standards i think water is different house where we're located it said that the location know from the surface the amount of precipitation the use of the water the density of the population this one shoe fits all kind of government policy that comes from washington dc would be a difference that mr devine i would have on this issue which is i think water and that water is being regulated by the kansas department of health environment and a better and in a better way and more stringent way and the environmental protection agency that's the problem we have right now the standard unit the national level is not the sun democrat john divine we need a standard across the country i want my kids to go anywhere in this country moving in a clean glass of water right now people in the southwest

kansas without a political boundary which is oklahoma and kansas oklahoma can say we're going to let an agent lacey through those organs kansas as a quarter of an inch i what has a sixteenth of an inch or three states that have zero lead huge when the weather gets down to two hundred two hundred thirty for greatness in october destroys yaacov or we destroy western kansas local communities need to have a choice and to say whether they want a halt form or not but without a federal standard every state is different the same way when you look at johnson in southwest kansas the reader comments made if you won't work with us we can go forty miles south of oklahoma and we'll give those folks in oklahoma the four hundred jobs there are very strong supporter of business growth and new jobs but we can't take the risk of destroying our third of the state because our water is not usable and if we have a standard across the

country and where every upon a home for me you know jim got a minivan standard and so what it's going to cost for business again going back that level playing field i don't want the state senate and that the federal government in control of the federal government does need to set some standards because today we travel from state to state water travels from state to state on a lot of former colorado alone our groundwater and let them seep into kansas and then we lose in kansas because of the us get sent around me and said you seem to be putting a lot of faith in the states being able to do a better job on this big hit in the kansas legislature this session this year and bill was proposed un adelanto villagers groups behind it that one of the moratorium are adding a new species for instance to the kansas endangered species act if there isn't any have any summer about how but perhaps from the federal government states would be perhaps don't you think they're doing more to undermine the current environmental laws perhaps and they didn't that i don't think so

i think that no one cares about the quality of the environment more than the farmer who lives on that land or more than people who live in kansas there's going to be tremendous pressure to keep our precious resource water available and right now meade kansas department health and environment is going back to southwest kansas to revisit the issue of the standards of water quality to take a look at whether or not just that these standards which are more stringent in kansas than some other places ought to be increased made more difficult to comply with again the idea that washington dc and make a decision that in washington dc that applies in southwest kansas in hayes kansas in topeka but also in los angels in chicago and that we're all in the same situation water is so different that the quality of of water the issues that surround it use our are different from region a region within the state and within certainly from state to stay within his country i and its its typical of the folks who think that the federal government has the ability to make a decision in washington dc

wait until there's a perfect example i talk about this with my constituents or no commerce the federal government has developed standards for landfills that are in our party have this in your party and this across the country that have adopted the concept that one size one solution fits all and we as taxpayers have paid hundreds of millions of dollars trying to comply with the federal mandate that doesn't probably improve the quality of environment and certainly doesn't even provide us the money to comply with the rules of regulation i mean water's the next day the concern is that yes i am because they're not saying the federal government does need to go overboard as one they should we got right now we need new people in washington that doesn't take the one shoe fits all approach when at the same time does say water is a standard we got married we cannot survive in western kansas about that because the other thing you run into up until recently and endures that they're going to go back and check your guns are already out there where four

hundred were goods in southwest kansas we had one person came at the chapel inspector they got a half a person we had only one of people can inspect amber n n n n n a sense protect us and europe the farmer the family the cans and they want to protect their land but when you're a large corporation coming out that is one of the bottom line and its reporting and entering the stockholders the live other places thinking that cost ten cents more a whole where raisin of million homes in southwest kansas somebody does have to make a decision to say no to a hundred thousand dollars drop into the bottom line that's why we need a federal standard because of the pressure that's been put on by large companies whose primary interest or to say whatever north carolina they were there and those companies moved out of north carolina when he got to watch what happens if ten or twelve or fifteen years from now they'd like kansas it's back to the to the people of kansas and now our water supplies but destroyed with your opponents pointing out that he does not like the one size

fits all approach that is happening with the federal environmental protection out as far as you can say to you saying then that that is that's what while because at the end of the day does allow a federal standard we can't trust the states didn't know he won one sane and having lived and worked with this every day the local level we have a landfill and so what we have a new line though there are places to where you look and there are different issues because of the of the surface of the land but at the same time there are some standards and one of me as we don't expect anywhere in this country could you know that your plan on every landfill should be expected to be done because we have a landfill today that can have zero late each level of zero so he's going through the land bubble the landfill or less the equivalent of six hundred thousand people in those four counties in southwest kansas so it's been different in a landfill issue about is that they do and cans of the all the religion volatile revive going into effect

i've got a bad development and we will provides migrants with congressional candidate tonight is you never comes up in the landfill issue on the federal government's forth on earth unfair or is that an example where the new nets won the federal government has forced was unfairly republican jerry moran it seems odd to me that we folks in dallas county in hayes kansas transport or treasury are solid waste to a landfill outside of topeka where the water table is higher where the population density is greater we have many small counties who can't who don't generate enough solid waste ever be able to afford to comply with federal rules regulations and there's very few people who live in those counties in his long distances down to water as long distances to neighbors and yet that they regarded this seems typical to be a politician to critically in washington who want to take credit for solving a problem all of us want to be able to say that we support a clean environment that we've passed a law that's going to clean up the environment and world to have you know healthy situation what they do is pass along with

providing and in this case the law don't leave unsolved problem that they take credit for improving the environment or cleaning up the environment and it doesn't solve a problem and they don't give you the money and the idea that we ought to have a landfill regulations that that that affects chicago illinois and our goal county kansas and iowa have to try to comply with the same rules regulations one makes no sense but two is tremendously expansive i am certain that taxpayers in kansas have paid more than a serving hundreds of millions of dollars in trying to comply i was something that doesn't fall trial is a major exhibit in what's now the landfill is your thing about obama to get out of the reason for fixing a landfill problems shouldn't say just the opposite democrat john divine the federal government does have a point throughout history when you look at six seven generations of cannes is that worked hard to protect the state we need to be looking at six and seven generations out not just our we

save and some dollars today yes we have federal standards that does not have to be a cookie cutter approach that there does need to be the standard because you were eleven contaminants go in our landfills and those contaminants are going down and have the boat engine or destroyed and our walk over and started destroying our groundwater that's a reasonable place for some common science that's what we're looking for what we're all going to move on to some other issues is that after the breakup percy about the packing industry an industry a lot of kansans believe growers were concerned there was a monopolistic trend taking place price fixing usda investigated it rebound not a lot there but it's obvious that that the big growers and encounters don't trust that system that says rogan what would you say to those or cattlemen in kansas who think there is some price fixing going on in that industry what the federal government democrat john divine the system is broken

to some degree right now when you have four people out there that's mine at eighty some percent of all the catalan supporters and livestock and those four people they don't have to get together and meet the back room if only one shows up a bit of the sale barn that doesn't control heavily the solution is that we've got the beginning that farmer more and more ability to compete part of that is information they need to know what the information's going on the other thing is this was a pleasant were when they need to be literally true sloss we've done it the day all of those are comfortable investing in the stock market because we have indiana trust laws that keep our geeky but failure is a series brought republican jerry moran i spent a day in scott county when we visited seven different vineyards scott county primary provider of b to the meatpacking industry and now they yeah they are they are have a tough time in supplying

that even the sense that the early exits provider and so they've gone from being you know in a wonderful position to have to really a big calvin used to be enjoyable because a way there is a lot of stress among calderon oh the problem what's the solution but the solution i think one is these additional information that the difficulty we the secretary of agriculture has studied this issue has created taskforce through four times and at the moment his suggestion that separate anglicans edition is we provide additional information counseling or what kind of a lot of their equipment the other thing i would say about that is that it's voluntary at the moment it may be necessary to make the information mandatory a lot is changing as the market changes part of the problem that we've had in the focus that's been on his vision and the difficulty that cattlemen have faced as bending over supply of cattle that seem to be changing the price of cattle is up to seventy two things are improving i don't think you want to overreact and calvin themselves have been unable to find the right

solution they are an independent breen who normally want nothing to do with government that particular as going to a complete different area and that is the area of ethics and national polls have been consistently showing that people are simply fed up with what's been going on in washington that we see poll saying that they are people complain of a lack of personal integrity about those who say of that and congress is just living high heel awash in special interest money or so we're told herself with you we're joined by a democratic candidate what you're going to do if you were elected to congress debate that place in washington all ethical place in the testing whether it needs to be more ethical without a doubt democrat john divine about that impact on those folks are buying into were not taken a lobbyist money those folks are by an injury they want that one aside what to do the other thing is we need to do as a concern about with your right now we need to say in a committee you're on you have nothing to do that with income related to that state kansas has been a

jury over a quarter of a million dollars or two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in the last five years of a second injury five serves on the committee at one time and now the leader of the other half of the senate has some science of influence on what we gotta do a little one when i first elected as a decommissioned so i know i took so i know the city is a line of over my customers was covered by somebody on paper it means i had to do that i took the initiative is we have got to change the attitude that says we don't believe that leaves a question mark will eliminate pensions for all elected officials like about it us house of representatives into your turn to the temporary job of the two year term wise a temporary employees showing a penchant for two years i run again let's do away with the pension fund kansas our legislators were three months late they get a pension prostate cancers vision do that we need to change it we don't have the nerve to relish

i'm probably have more impact they're now sweeping bill in washington would be to eliminate the special interest in a way with the eleven attack plans eliminate pensions say you're going to represent the citizens of this desperate we might not even have a german civilian life i think turn i've always been an instrument of i think maybe we didn't because we're giving people in washington that that simple question forgive people in a pickup that's their profession you look as i want your profession and that's what we gonna do we gotta get back to heaven our representatives represent us and not the congresspeople jerry moran your sponsor i think it integrity is perhaps the most important issue that voters should address when deciding how to vote we had a great discussion this country over the last four years about the role that integrity should play a character issue there are going to be time and timing in which in which i disagree with somebody who i have elected or voted

for or against the people who hold public office i'm not always going to agree with the what i wanna know is that they've got my best interest at heart they're doing it that they're doing is public service not for any other purpose not any ill motives i think that now the character issue is one that really matters and you can't necessarily legislator good character we've got to explore for candidates are what they stand for how they lived their personal lives and i think those things really matter as much as necessarily how they feel about a particular issue i agree that we need to reduce the influence that the so called special interest play in government it is a difficult issue to figure out what the right balance is packs were created and i'm no fan of packs but they were created as a solution to what was perceived as unethical behavior or poor campaign finance the idea as a result of the watergate scandal

i didn't end there there are groups of folks who put the ring together and make contributions to candidates when i dislike about taxes that it allows candidates not to spend a lot of time soliciting support from individuals i think individuals have abortion enters that problem with a special interest in the packed community does not potentially going to visit a tangibly in terms of legislation on things that you can support in washington and that would make that more ethical place needs to be having is is there anything tangible that you could say people poured out of problems well can you actually do that because i support the concept of reducing or eliminating the ability for political action committees to contribute money to candidates i think that's a start oh i do that unilaterally by saying he would accept political action committee contribution will be one for congress but eventually did it you be willing to meet and that's right and i'm trying to to limit the role that political action committees play i'm i'm selective in who likes of contributions from a we've accepted some political action committee money what it represents thirteen

fourteen percent of the money that we raised for a congressional race it's not an important factor and it's generally the kinds of groups that then it philosophically agree with that the chamber of commerce the national such an independent businesses certainty is folks who have made a decision that philosophically we want somebody who agrees with us to be elected to congress it is difficult to raise money campaign finances of problem i don't know what the right solution is a thousand dollars from an individual contributor i'm not sure is a lot different than a thousand dollars from the national cattlemen's association how do you decide it and i guess what matters is that we elect people who were there to represent the best interest of their constituents and not going to place him or or interest on what some particular group that vision money saved so we can discern that there was a pilot just wanna seconds but to maintain balance eu volunteered your perspective on tablets that city's important to many people when he won that issue quickly a journey nick year i think campaign finance reform would be a better solution to the

issue of term limits but i think it's a matter of trust people in kansas a dislike career politicians i ran against an incumbent state senate eight years ago and incidentally i'm not certain legislature long enough to draw a pension so i knocked on the receding and i also spent that two or three years my legislative career trying to repeal a pension increase that was granted state legislators are pouring three percent wage increase or about other state employees and we were successful in getting at that although it took a number of years to succeed and i never signed up for the special benefits pension anyway for getting surveyed years will go pension when you reach retirement know you're not serve one of a legislative record but then again that pension was taken away from st leger from from from congressional candidate from state how apart from the fed at the federal level as though with a penchant as doyle impact mining part of the reason that and then it was a conscious

decision we gave up an awful lot of money not taken back and our opinion was as as was mentioned you've got to make the decision or you've got to step up and say i'm front it's time for a new day a new way or wouldn't a business your work and so my opinion was you can't do that after you get elected we've heard from politicians and kansas in every other state when i developed a little bit different when i get elected i'll quit taken on a quote haven't ensure a second fund insurance company all for you those things are issues that to say what is my character where my abs and that's it and then jurors that what the rights of the citizens of our district have to look at as we are you're you're you're competing in conflicts they have robert frank langella cultural committee chairman with him in the final turn as likely i would imagine that you know the weather will serve an agricultural committee had brought with you should serve that number of current take money from from the pacs and special interests that have a special agenda before that in the other

special are the issues that serious democrat john devine i have a hard time understanding why you take money from the sugar cane pack animal and sugarcane been raised in kansas i don't have the ability i wish it had to be able to go out there and say this is a good pattern is a bad practices a good back because lala do anybody that gives money to hell isn't enough to prevent back and people would give money to the other guy must be a backpack i don't have that skill it is time for us to step up and say no that impacts a swing at why they've risen to a point republican jerry moran it's important that we reduce the role that question please play project in those an impact that has had a real special interest not a broad interest that special interest in legislation has been an unfortunate in july through march are there is there in about robert but i didn't plan on the new album are not saying that they might be influenced or not mean common sense tell

you that those issues exist democrat john devine i think what happened is is there are times when any legislative power hour journey by the alzheimer's folks are getting a large amount of money and that access to getting your door and if that if that average kansas family farmer doesn't have the same access and yes a residual taken place and i think that's happened because it again and i think you're a great the family farm is the foundation of this country you look at who wrote in the declaration of independence who have the constitutional folks ok and not agree about one you want another man you listening to debate ninety six a special presentation of the kansas public radio election profit you been hearing from the candidates running for the first congressional district in kansas democrat john divine a marketing executive from saliva was a form of elephant central kansas town and

republican jerry moran an attorney from the case and currently serves as senate majority leader in the kansas legislature so far this roundtable discussion reported recently on the campus of kansas state university the candidates have grappled with everything from agriculture to ethics reform in the next half hour of the program the candidates will grapple with some of the other issues in this campaign from abortion to gun control let's return now to the gold standard in manhattan as the discussion continues we want to cover a couple of issues that were a lot of social volatility didn't want abortion lot of people in western kansas very prominent up their mind but if that one issue alone one another of your position on the issue abortion the federal government's role in it with enough detail that weekend here i am a pro life republican jerry moran i'm one who believes the government does have a role to have

to address in this area i think that there are those who say the government can address moral issues i think that part of what we do is try to establish the difference between right wrong and so i'm going to vote for the kinds of things that would restrict early availability of abortion so that date is not the norm in this country that abortions be performed what what circumstances would abortion the little well i think that the the exceptions are there i mean i think that's a difficult position to have to defend and once you agree to live his life and in and white begins inception it's hard to draw distinctions but i think that there can be general agreement this country that abortion ought to be deterred except in cases of rape incest or life of the mother i believe that a woman needs to have the right to make your own decision democrat john devine i don't think a couple more guys like us on to be in there

right in the last it's not a place for government a woman needs to sit down with her family a clergy or a doctor those people were significant inner life that's where the decisions to come from i don't believe that abortion should be a method of birth control but at the same time for a bunch of legislators to tell women how they have to live their life isn't what it isn't a role i say i don't think it's a place for you to argue that point would move onto another law about your words are you sort it out and on others you've got control of the assault weapons ban advantage of the adult and demolition gun control lobby up with gavin i'm sure it's a very sensitive matter democrat john devine november ninth i'll be out in the field and i believe very much in responsible gun ownership assault weapons are not responsible gun ownership i believe the current law is a good one is a mile into the brady

bill we need get taken of time to have people think about what they are doing i'd like to see is that where we had an international on technology very well we don't have to wear those checks don't have to take five days that anybody who wants to be responsible should mind when the day or two because if it's my trial or your child or your grandchild it gets killed by any responsible individual or a person of mentally unstable i don't deserve that to happen to me i don't deserve to have a suicide take place to a member of my family that's what we have to have responsible gun control and so i i support the assault weapons ban i support the reagan republican jerry moran i mean no work no commitment one or the other on the issue of the assault weapon than i really think that despite what you say i doubt that it's an issue is in the makeup of the congress the way it is and with the current administration i

think you're strongly about the issue of gun control i can tell you that i am not an advocate of gun control i think it's it's a misconceived it again it's government simple solution to a crime problem that we can pass a law saying that you can't to possess a firearm that we're going to do something significant about to reducing the rate read crime and in our state are in the country i don't think it works that way i think that to gun control i happen to believe that with the statement that you hear gun control generally means that criminals will have guns and people who buy the law will not i think it's a bit of an ability to defend our enemy assault weapon i'm lauren will provide eye i wanna hear the discussion about the assault weapon ban i'm not committed one where the other out how i would vote but again i think it's based upon a false assumption that i don't want him at the assault weapon but i think the gun control including the assault weapon ban is based upon a false assumption that by simply passing a law only of video good guys and bad guys go about what he's going to another in

those educational don't often get a chance to go to that uncertainty of the republican presidential hopeful bob dole has come up with a proposal at this school vouchers that's a hot button issue with many folks and if he were elected president he says he would give parents are one thousand dollar school voucher that they could use to paper to issue in either a public or private school it's not what you what mr ryan would you propose would you support the proposal if bob dole was elected president and if you were in congress at the time it's probably wrong necessarily way over much of my mind and i'm not a report about yours i think for a number of reasons i think the ability to finance the public education system that we have is is hindered by the use of vouchers those of us who represent rural communities and rural schools i think we have a lot to lose as serve as vouchers come into play with the ability to keep a public school in rural communities and finally i think most to a private schools the things that they have the advantages that they

have and why they may be desirable to some parents begins to diminish as vouchers or funding of private schools by the federal government or by state government increases the restrictions the end and their requirements the government places on everybody who receives its money i think began to work cause of deterioration of the of the differences between public and private education so i'm not enamored with the idea of vouchers and i find pretty much consistently have a position john nevada public funds to go to public education every citizen has a right to send their children to fire a private school to home school and we now have that right about public funds in education is so important to this country and they right now i would say i would not vote to do with formal education is too important we can save the money without doing away with the board of education but it's an attitude what are we telling young parents who

move when the federal government says education isn't that important today and there are some good programs that the federal government get some leadership in local control local school system should still be at the local level there's and things of the americorps i'm proposing that we take an airport and give more and more an hour programs for students in tomorrow's goals for help in our inner city schools the school lunch programs are teachers out there or boston or tail light i think an awful lot of our teachers and yet sometimes if kids aren't ready when they come to school we need a head start program we need school lunch programs and a reckless program so kids are ready to let the teacher can do their job and the teacher doesn't have to be strictly a disciplinarian with kids who don't have the street on her own to manage so very very strong on education as i said take strong stand would

vote no to do to do away with farm of education would vote for a program to have more americorps students and members in that in that program helping us with our rural schools would when congressman ryan vote no one there getting rid of the department of education is way of saving funds i don't imagine that being with her medication may save a lot of money and i i find school officials and i certainly fit the same category that they're in no one's really certain what the form of education does as far as a adding additional education there are things that the department of asian does that i know about that i think's important student loans for example as selina the department occasion was done away with there are programs that i would be supportive of continued funding i think education is so important that's not the federal government ought to be more involved with the local folks local boards of education i think mr lamont we were together in great man recently and i think he and i this is another issue in which we disagree on it seems to be calling for more federal involvement in education issues i think

education should be best be determined a local well while local word education by the teachers and the parents and the students within the community you're my position as we need more effort put at the local level democrat john devine but education is that it is the cave for our competitiveness going into the twenty percent are in a global economy if we want a really impact welfare we will impact crime education is the key we need more involvement of the local level not last we need more involved at the local level but education is so important we don't need the federal government out of it we need the local governments state governments federal never wilmore nap we need private sector more involved we need this is one of those areas where you need a real partnership federal state local and the private sector both a nonprofit in the private sector all working together you know that sort of another proposal i think we need to deal with when and his proposal the other day we need to have incentives

that ask that give companies involved with furnishing technology to our schools because we have to have technology our school system from a forgivable completed twenty percent three and also to get out there and get in the private sector to get into more mentoring programs we begin our senior citizens involved and mentoring students and those can happen and what we do is so critical it was at the right attitude and that's what the federal government can help set be involved is help and so we're running golden i'm going to live on like most of kansas is getting older all day all the problem or not going on that lowers there's great concern about the viability of financial viability of a very careful security one of bell's about a lot of tax cuts are people that senior citizen age group of being told we're going to hear about the prospect of

medicare providing a balanced budget medicare so security can have a solid foundation democrat john divine first ever takes is a willingness to get it on the table and start having some votes on it when you hear this again when you that winning a change in attitude in washington when you hear the wig on two years without any major votes are because i might well you know the citizens might not vote mean but it comes back really to the whole budget issue we made the adult program about the glenn program we need to start all over and put every single issue on the table because one of the problems we have now we go back in history in this country you look at what happened during a second or you know what happened and integration anytime you asked the american citizens to step up and do a fair share and people share it happens one of the frustrations that i hear from our senior citizens are young people today is

that the way that they're trying to balance a budget is to leave a few things off the table so that somebody always gets an advantage let's put every issue on the table let's not nasser als like every issue goes on the table and we have to have but that's literally step up and downs about republican jerry moran i think here that senior citizens we made a commitment to them those that are receiving more about to receive benefits social security or medicare ought to be able to receive what they expected what the commitment was made of a lot of people filled it with better take a long term approach that as we try to find an eye and reduce the cost of the system without taking advantage of those that are already there or about being from both agreed that this will continue as they are now we will place a reduction of benefits average about that but well renee i think the tax cuts need to wait democrat

john divine the fifteen percent has been proposed this isn't the time one or two risk although things are going on we've got to really step up to the reduction of the budget doesn't mean we have to cut taxes and the other thing that we've got to do is as you know they're a senior citizen you know senior citizens have children and grandchildren they're concerned about them also have to say that all we're going to do is protect the senior citizens the whole program needs to be reworked we need to look at having invented the other investment options and say just put in treasury bills winning delegates i are there other places that we could put so security funds so they get a better return on their investment can we restructure the whole social security program and i think we can where the foundation is there long term not just to protect the people are in and they are the people are about the width and the morale issue of the tax cut or the crackle the move earned i mean the best way you know they are what we can address the budget deficit issue is to have growing economy

that's the least painful way in which the budget can be brought into balance i am supportive of the tax cuts as they relate to investment tax credit or capital gains i think we need a target for tax cuts in ways that cause job to be created one point expansion of the economy and that's where i thought because i do think it's important that we balance the budget and we need to make certain that we don't do things in the tax code could do anything other than five grow the economy oh john divine even talking about everything being on the table will be able to do all these things and yet the thing that's in the same time you say there's certain programs that the federal government should be doing and we should be doing anything about them out of the house what about the apparent contradiction that you can say we should be doing all these things in education for instance and yet they're everything has to be on the table are we going to everything has to look that up that's everything has to be looked at to run more efficiently and save money which in turn that's how we're going to get there i love about this is that work for it and we have reduced our

expenses increased our sales and are more profitable the data we were in any time and how we've done it is as three or four things one is we used to have contracts were thirty and forty pages another three and four pages less people work with them less less warriors involved with them we used to have our offices where we have sixteen guest or fifty five people and everybody was there in their office today we have twenty five desk where there's fifty people and work on our employees to be out with the customer we have to do that same thing with government cars are federal employees to get out with the citizens that's who they work for and the third thing would then ibm we use data manager would have forty five employees are boys are spending their time were doing busy work for managers instead of doing good things for ibm and for our customers to bear managers have twelve to twenty employees were in for we needed that the federal government bring those same kind of changes that's a story you could go across all the problems in the federal

government and you finding one that is a hundred percent efficient i'm looking for coming down and jenna maroney talked about you use shows signs of trepidation about talking about getting rid of the department information completely are there any programs of the federal government is doing right now that you could say yeah we should be doing and what's good well i think you're what what mr devine says is what many people who run for office say every time a run we're find efficiencies and save money i think the fact is that the government is so large it is hard to find those efficiencies and we really have created a federal government that has grown so rapidly so quickly i can over a period time that vote those efficiencies despite the fact we are looking for them will try to find them in topeka our budget is seven billion dollars it is difficult to find and what we end up doing is cutting budgets and making the agency's find those fishing season so the idea that we're going to go through the budgets and find each program that can save us money i wish

we could do it it doesn't happen but we need to do is reduce the overall size of government and yes there are when i think we spend too much money here in that way to have poured hundreds of doors completely get rid of that just reducing it well and i suppose that there is a market in which we want to be able to is to provide humanitarian aid but i think we involve ourselves in way too many areas of the world we spend too much money trying to buy friends around the world that's an example i think we're headed in the right direction when it comes to welfare reform i think that states are can provide services more efficiently and the federal government theory is that we can provide about twenty percent less money to states and because of their ability to react and to be flexible integrated program that meets the needs of their citizens that there's money that can be saved there again it's not a program to get rid of ah but it's it's an important aspect of changing the relationship between the federal government and the citizens of the country and a related area if the contract

america with american to propose again which are on a new lens of the commerce would you sign a similar version of the proposed two years ago or did that movement go to a bar ordered parties well is that is my party republican jerry moran and i'm delighted are pleased to be able to to be elected in nineteen ninety six i think i've demonstrated in the years that i've been in that in the state legislature that are not add anything but to independent i don't like the idea of signing a contract most of the provisions of the contract to any good i don't nolan i know the details of every provision of the contract and never read by support the concept of the things that are in that making congress to abide by the same rules and the idea of love a block grants the idea of downsizing the idea of doing away with the number of committees the reforms that are there i think are the right idea i dislike the concept that you signed you you your vote away that vote is the most

important thing a congressman a woman has i am i don't like the food mentality that comes will progress than honorable simon taxpayer protection was the villain of the national i've signed a pleasure and an indian battle that the pledges are troublesome to me i've not signed every bit the taxpayer so latex are groups out there and it seems like we get questionnaires and pledges dozens of the lot is on the line democrat john devine and say west as a mini pledges out which ones and and i haven't signed very many of them because most of them don't go in any depth on nations in just says well you pledge to do this without any kind of commonsense out until one concern the government to step back for a minute answer your question is no it i would not sign the contract at this point because i think that again are going to have to be willing to take the time on every issue and look at it and

see what's best for the people kansas concert i've got to add that just heard jeremy become and send it to the state senate to the state senate to the states i don't ever approach we ought to look and say who do we want to implement a new program it's a state program in the state has responsibility for those success of it and the funds on to go to the state if it's improper or we want local governments cities and counties to take responsibility then we shouldn't be shortstop of it at the state level if you go right straight to the cities and counties because they're the people that are close says and have to implement take responsibility and that's again what water is not running i think we need some people in washington understand local government is a lesson felt well when another person who isn't has a bias towards the state's rural kind is a us very briefly just gets the balance year jerry brown talk about debt cutting foreign aid has

quickly would you be in favor of cutting foreign aid so we can look at some differences between i think for nato has to be an intimate comedy the rules for an answer honestly to say to cut it with a look at what is our objective in one is a direction we want our company country to go and that the foreign aid has to work within that boundary and if it's not working within that boundary that we should cut those programs which and jerome kern songs but i don't have the background and the knowledge right now to say that we should cut foreign aid just to make it we get too many programs were instead a look at the program and make an appropriate manner that attitude of the contract for america was cut that i don't think that's the right approach for our citizens we need to be willing to take the time when energy to say what's the benefit what's the direction of this country want them around just to follow up very quickly and divine talks about new programs where they'll go the state of the city juan i can't

envision any new programs that i'm intrigued in the government being involved in and two on the issue of the taxpayer pledge pledge i signed up and had to finish my sentence of the pledge i've signed says that i will not vote to raise income tax rates and i will if we close so call loopholes or exemptions we were reduced the rates the income tax rates to make it revenue neutral i think that's a reasonable approach and that when i sign the pledge or not i'm not interested raising and i didn't say no programs democrat john divine so the programs that we take and sat down to work with ten thousand of the citizens of the state patty's day control and state funded if they go to the local government the local government and have the funds that go with it the responsibility and about their designs is in rural america rural kansas expect the federal government to help protect you the lifestyle than i have or is it on its own

no i think we can expect assistants or from the federal government that part of the agriculture policy i clearly if you care about the first is treat your were about small business and agriculture and things that go on in washington dc really impact agriculture and small business in a big way that says survival issue democrat john divine rural kansas needs to be given a chance to do it all until we have the skill we have when we shot lead for a hundred years what we can do in rural kansas we can survive on our own if we're given a level playing the president offered times joining us oil reserves of light on these issues about worms mature as a legendary about mccain's and the candidate won you've been listening to the debate ninety six a special presentation of the kansas public radio collection project you just heard from the candidates running for the first district congressional seat in kansas they'll republican jerry moran an

attorney from haiti's who currently serves as senate majority leader in the kansas legislature and democrat john devine a marketing executive from saliva was a former mayor of that central kansas town this debate was recorded recently at the dole said that on the kansas state university campus in manhattan the moderators what they'll go their public affairs director of wichita public television i myself just a reminder that there is a third candidate in this race retired wichita aerospace worker bill ernest who is a libertarian he was invited to this debate but chose not to attend meanwhile kansas public radio would like to thank the staff of the educational communications center at case stayed for technical assistance with this broadcast and thank you for listening i make haynes and this is kansas public radio