Ear on Chicago; Keeler

The blood makes up a total of about one -thirteenth of our total body weight. The liquid portion of the blood is known as blood plasma, and it constitutes about fifty -five percent of the blood. It is composed of water, approximately ninety percent, or a little better, and of solids which are dissolved in the fluid, and those are mainly proteins. Now the formed or solid elements, what you're hearing is not a medical lecture, but a lecture by Mr. Herbert Lyle, who is an instructor in the medical aspects of the polygraph, or the light detector. This is Hugh Hill speaking to you from the Leonard Keeler Incorporated Light Detector who tests personal consultants at 341 East Ohio in Chicago. Let's listen to more of this lecture before we tell you more of the story of the light detector. And then we have the white corpuscles

or the leukocytes, and we have the blood platelets which are also called the thrombocytes. First of all we will consider the erythrocytes or the red blood corpuscles. They are formed in the marrow of bones that is in the red bone marrow. As you can tell, this particular lecture has to do with blood. We will be talking later to Mr. Lyle about the medical aspects of the light detector. But let's move on now to discuss the light detector itself and some of the uses that it is put to. You just heard a recording of a classroom discussion in the light detector test. Now, we are going to talk to Leonard Harrelson, who is the president of Leonard Keeler Incorporated. Mr. Harrelson, first of all tell me about the class. We recorded a portion of the lecture and it was on blood. This of course is the medical aspect of the light detector. And we were going to talk to the instructor and perhaps we can talk to him a little bit later. But suppose you tell us just what was going on in there. Well, Dr. Lyle has

four and a half days here that he teaches medical aspects and the portions of the anatomy and the circulatory system, nervous system that pertains to the polygraph work, our light detection, and the things that the examiner should know about the anatomy and the nervous system, circulatory and whatnot in order to be a successful polygraph examiner. Who are these students? The students. We have 13 here at the present time. They are police officers throughout the stage. One is from Alaska and we have two boys who will be in commercial business. Tell us something about the classes. How often do you hold classes? We have four resident classes a year. They extend for a period of six weeks each for 195 hours. And do these, as you said, the policemen come from all over the country. I suppose you have a great number of them right from the city of Chicago. Well we haven't had one from the city of Chicago for quite some time. Why is that? They have a substantial number of polygraph examiners already trained. I see. Now

we are in the room where a polygraph machine is located. And in just a moment, in order that we may further discuss the polygraph, or as you better know it, as the light detector, I am going to take a light detector test. This is the first time that I've ever been given a test of this kind. But the purpose of this one is in no way connected with criminology. Mr. Harrelson is going to give me a test as if I were applying for a job in which there would be some sort of security. Is that right? That is right. We'll give you a test assuming that you made an application say to go to work for a local bank. Before I go into that, I mentioned criminology. Do you do work up here within this private institution in that line? We do a considerable amount of criminal work for police and sheriff departments throughout the country. Now, one more thing before I sit down in the chair, Mr. Harrelson, this in front of me here with the dials, the knobs,

the red buttons, and the graph with three small needles coming out of it. Is that the light detector itself? That is the keyer polygraph or the keyer light detector. Now I'm going to take the test first and I'd like to ask you a few questions about how it works. So you go ahead and take me over as a subject and we'll see what happens. Okay, this is a numograph tube. We fasten it around the chest here and this will make a continuous tracing of the respiratory pattern. This is a regular blood pressure cuff. We will fasten it about the upper part of this left arm. We will inflate a pressure here to between systolic and diastolic blood pressures. Then we will make a continuous tracing of your blood pressure, pulsation pattern. He's got me wrapped up pretty tightly here, something around my left arm. He said would be for blood pressure and something around my chest, which is not too tight, but

something like a belt would be tight around your waist. Now what's this? This will fasten in your right hand here. It is a galvanograph and this will record the activities of your sweat glands. What was that grease you put on the palm of my hand? That's a regular cardiogram jelly just for making better contact with the electrode poles there. All right, go right ahead. Well, I will start here and I will balance the polygraph. I will balance it to your normal at this particular time. I will ask you to put both your feet flat on the floor. Do not move, do not move either hand, do not move your feet. When I get balanced in here, I will ask you a series of questions. You answer each question, yes or no only. Do no explaining,

make no statements of explanation. Just answer the question, yes or no. We will discuss them after I run through a series of questions. I would just like to ask a question for purposes of the broadcast. There was some pressure on my left arm here from this apparatus that was wrapped around my arm. Did you pump some air into that blood pressure, too? Yes, I inflated the blood pressure cuff on your arm. I have it inflated to reading on the aneroid here, 90 millimeters of pressure. That is your main pressure or halfway between your systolic and diastolic blood pressures. All right, go right ahead with the questions. Do you live in Chicago? No. Do you drink coffee? Yes. Have you ever been fired from a job previously? No.

Have you ever stolen anything from a previous place of employment? No. Have you ever stolen any money from a previous place of employment? No. Have you ever used or sold narcotic drugs? No. Have you ever done anything for what you could be blackmailed? No.

Do you smoke? Yes. Did you tell a complete truth about your academic educational background? Yes. Do you know of any reason why you should not have this job? No. Are you intentionally trying to withhold a regulatory information about yourself? No. Do not move for one moment. There'll be no more questions at this time. Well, as I understand it, Mr. Harrelson, now that the test is over, that you never reveal what the test indicates,

I'm not sure what it reveals myself and perhaps it would be better for me if we didn't reveal it. I don't know. But anyway, I answered the questions as truthfully as I knew and tell us what you can, at least about what the questions reveal that is as far as my answers are concerned. Well, your blood pressure is very stable. It's holding stable throughout, but the exception of you have a diastolic and systolic rise on a couple of the questions. Your respiration is very stable. The activities of the sweat glands indicate that your very tense, your resistance decreased at the commencement of the test, and that caused the pen, the long pen, the galvanometer pen, to rise to the top of the chart. Now, that's indicative that there's something on your mind, your tense. Maybe

you're not going to lie about the questions that I explained I would ask you, however, should I keep asking questions, I would find it, in all probability, you have something that you would like to lie about or you would lie about where you ask. Well now, this test is what it would have anything to do with current activities as far as I'm concerned in the radio business. It could have. It could have something to do with the day that you have sustained here in the hours and the running around you've been doing. It could have to do with that. The tenseness, in this case, has to do with the presence of other people, you being a little unsure of what some other person, a friend of yours, might yell out and ask you a question that you might not want him to ask. That could have a lot to do with it. The reason I asked about the current conditions is the fact that I, myself, particularly have been out covering this grime's murder story, and for all three or four days now, it's been a rather high pitch as far as my life is concerned, and we've been going at full steam, and I just wondered if that had anything to do with what you just said.

That could have plenty to do with it, yeah. Well now, let's find out what happens here. As you asked the questions, and as I answered, there were certain marks and lines on this graph in front of us. Yes, the questions are coded with a number, and then your answer is recorded right into place you give the answer, minus for a negative plus for an affirmative answer. When we get finished with a test, we analyze it. We ask you to explain certain reactions. We at that point call up the prospective employer and say that we recommend you or we do not recommend you, whichever the case may be. Now is this a foolproof thing here? The polygraph is a scientific instrument. It's a medical diagnostic instrument, and we have found it to be fantastically accurate. How does it work? It works, records the blood pressure, pulsation, changes therein, records a respiration, and the changes therein, and records the activities of the sweat

glands. And if a person told a lie that these changes would occur, yes, there is some 21 or 22 different physical changes that take place in the human body at the point of deception. Well now who discovered all this information, and how was this polygraph invented? Well, the polygraph and the technique goes back for many, many years. Leonard Keeler is the person that developed and perfected it to its present day use here. He is not the actual inventor of it, but he is a perfector of it. And was he a medical man? His background was not medicine, as such. He was in psychology and law. Do you have other tests that we might be able to give other people? For example, Herb Grayson looks eager to get on this light detector test. Well, we could question him if his particular employer is sustained in inventory shortages. We could ascertain if Herb has anything to do or any knowledge of those shortages. Why don't we put him on the lie box? I'd like to listen to one more. Well, he has to be willing to take it. Are you willing to take it, Mr.

Grayson? Yes, sir. All right, let's put him over here, and we'll let you get all hooked up, and then we'll listen to the questions. Now, Mr. Harrelson, you're prepared here to start the interrogation of Mr. Grayson. What's going to happen? Well, the examiner, in this case, is going to be Lynn P. Marcy. He's on the staff here at Leonard Keeler, and he's going to ask questions of Mr. Grayson. As though Mr. Grayson was an employee, he had been around an office where the $25 ,000 disappeared from a safe. Now, this will be the type of questions that he would be asked, however, this is a hypothetical case. All right, are you ready? Yes, in conducting this test, we're going to question Mr. Grayson concerning the disappearance of this money. We're interested, first, in whether or not he has any knowledge of this disappearance. And then if we do discover knowledge, we're also interested in attempting to ascertain what his exact part

was in the disappearance of this money. In running the test, we generally start off by informing the subject that the test is about to begin. And then we ask him a couple of irrelevant questions and get into the general questioning. I'll attempt to proceed in that manner. Mr. Grayson, the test is about to begin. If you will sit perfectly still and look straight ahead, answer the question. Yes or no only? Do you drink coffee? Yes. Are you a citizen of the United States? Yes. Do you know who stole the money? No. Did you steal the money? No. Do you know who burglarized the safe? No. Are you in any way in collusion with anyone to burglarize this

safe? No. Have you ever stolen any money in your life? No. Do you live in Chicago? No. Do you know where the money from this safe is now? No. Are you attempting to withhold any information about this matter? No. Have you at any time lied to any of my questions? No. Did you help anyone to steal the money from this safe? No. Are you attempting to conceal any information about this matter? No. Do you smoke? Yes. Is there any information which you have about this matter you're trying to conceal from me now?

No. All right, would you just say perfectly still for one moment? There'll be no more questions at this time. Well, that does it for that test once again. Once again, we're not going to reveal what the test indicated. This is all confidential material and they never give out the information that is revealed in a polygraph test. Now, Dr. Lyle has come into the room and I would like to ask him a few questions. First of all, about that class he was having and the medical aspects of the polygraph. First of all, tell us something about this discussion you had today with the class in there. When we were listening in, you were talking about blood. Well, in the polygraph instrument there are three sections. One has to do with blood pressure and heart rate and therefore to understand that one must know something

about the circuitatory system. Blood is a component of the circuitatory system and we discuss all the aspects of the circuitatory system. We also discuss the respiratory system that is the lungs and we discuss the effect of nerves, how they control bodily activity. In other words, we feel that a polygraph examiner must know why his instrument is working. Not just be a technician or a twister of dials but must know the reason for the things that he sees on his chart. So we ground them where we attempt to ground them in medical aspects. Dr. Lyle, have any of your tests been admitted to court? Yes, they have. Could you tell us something about those cases? Well, the circumstances of the three cases that I can recall off hand are these. There was a stipulation and agreement whereby the attorney for the prosecution and the attorney for

the defendants agreed that I should run the test and the results of the test would be admitted without objection to court. The court went along with this and permitted that to be done. And in these three instances, I didn't even testify. I simply rendered a report to the court and I was accepted by the court, admitted into evidence and allowed to be in evidence without opposition by either side. Now, many people know the advantages of the polygraph, the light detector for prosecutors, for policemen. But there also are advantages for defendants sometimes. Is that not true? Oh, very definitely. I can think of one instance where a man was accused of taking two children into an automobile and molesting them. This was out on a road. There were no witnesses. What we had here was the word of the children against the word of the man. I mean, there before the grace of God can be you or I. And the only possible way

of finding out who was telling the truth was first by examination of the man. And then on the basis of his test, which showed in our opinion that he was telling the truth when he said that he didn't molest them. And then by careful questioning of the children finding out that this was a story that they had fabricated. I could conceive of that person being in terrific difficulties. Not only with the court, but how about at home and his wife? Yes, I can understand that. And did this case clear him? Yes, it did. Very, very definitely. And as I say, I feel that we get a lot more personal or I get a lot more personal satisfaction out of clearing somebody than I ever do by saying, well, yes, this is the guy slugging. How long have you been connected with the polygraph document? Since 1949. And then you have had occasion certainly to give a lot of tests to a lot of people. Well, I have given a fair number of tests. My test have mainly been

criminal in arson homicide, breaking and entering and things of that sort. With the police department? With the police department, with the prosecutor's office, some with probation departments. But you've been always with the Keter Institute? I'm in Cincinnati, and I'm with the Hamilton County. I see. Well, Dr. Lyle, we want to thank you very, very much. There's one more question that has been I've been advised to ask. Has the lie detector cleared anyone in a murder case where the evidence was very heavy against him? I can think of one such case. Not occurred to me in Hamilton County, and the evidence was pretty heavy against him. I won't say that it cleared him, but at least it created a suspicion or the thought in the prosecutor's mind that possibly he didn't do it. And therefore, our prosecutor being that type of person, he would not subject a possible innocent person to prosecution.

Thank you very much, Dr. Lyle, for talking to us. Let's get back now to Mr. Harrelson, who is the president of the Keter Institute, and I'd like for him to tell us a few things about some of the rather well -known cases that this organization has been involved in. First of all, Mr. Harrelson, tell us about this Colonel Durant story. That's a very famous one, and a very interesting one. Well, Colonel Jack Durant was questioned in this office. On a polygraph by Dr. Keeler, and he was questioned as to any connection with the off -the -the -hash crown jewels from Germany. When was that? As I recall, that was 1945 or six I've forgotten a year. Dr. Keeler ran the test, and by using a map of the United States was able to, through the reactions, the physical reactions on the chart, he was able to send out, and they actually located the jewels. Colonel Durant would not admit the crime, he wouldn't answer the questions, but by

taking a map of the United States, Dr. Keeler located the jewels in three different states and three different cities. The jewels were recovered. By asking the Colonel some questions about the map, asking him if he disposed of the jewels in this area, this location, and so forth. Colonel Durant was convicted, and sentenced to a term in a federal penitentiary, he never did confess. Any other cases that we might be able to hear about? Well, I can remember a case several months ago where I examined a young boy, a 21 -year -old Korean veteran, and he was an acquaintance of a young 17 -year -old girl that had been murdered. He was not a suspect due to certain evidence indicating the direction of travel of the bullet that had pierced a girl's stomach. This young veteran was examined because he insisted on being examined. His statement as I recall was that he wanted to tell the world and prove to the world that he loved

this girl and had nothing to do with it. And even though he wasn't a logical suspect, he was examined, and I recall at four minutes and five seconds after I started the examination, he broke down and confessed to it. I remember the time because I had to count out the exact time that I had him only instrument for the jury and the judge that tried him and convicted him of first -degree murder. Well, those are certainly interesting cases. And as I said earlier, there's probably a lot of times when, although at times the polygraph results are not admitted as evidence in the court, that they have resulted in confessions, and by the same token, they have resulted in many innocent people having been freed. Is that not true? That is a very true statement, and from the prosecution police standpoint, it has saved endless stars of investigations by clearing these suspects so that they could concentrate on some other person. The most famous case, one of the most famous cases that is going on at the very present time, and I know that you cannot discuss

current cases, is that of the Schussler Peterson murders, the three boys that were murdered a year ago last November. Many, many light tests have been given by the Chicago Police Department, and I'm quite sure that some of the light tests were given by this institution. Is that right? That is correct. I won't ask any more about that, but there is another investigation pending right now, and that's into the Grimes murders, and have you given any light tests in that case? Not officially, no. Well, now I'd like to talk a little bit about history of light detection, Mr. Herylson. How did it all begin? You told me first of all about the light detector itself, but I mean was there light detection before it was invented? Well, going back many, many years ago, there was a form of light detection in China, where that defendant or suspect, in a case, would be carefully balanced and weighed on a balance scale, by placing a weight on the offset end, and then after it

was carefully balanced, he would be taken off and stood before the judge and lectured to. At the conclusion of the lecture, he was placed back on, and if he was found to be lighter, then he was when he had been taken off of the scales, he was presumed innocent. There was another case in India, where that by placing a donkey into a closet type building and placing lamp black on the tail, they would send the suspects through and tell them that if a guilty person pulled this donkey's tail, that he would let out a yell. So it wound up by the innocent person being suspicion, not being suspicious of it, and having no fear, they would pull a tail, the guilty person would not, he would come out with clean hands, they would come out with black hands. Well, those are very interesting stories indeed. We want to thank you very much, Mr. Herylson, for talking to us about the Leonard Keeler Institute, where they have the light detector and give tests on it, and also have classes in light detection. So that's the story of the light detector, and this is Hugh Hill speaking.