City in Sound; Chicago Art Galleries, Inc.

Good evening, this is Jim Herbert, helping you to better hear the city and sound. Tonight a sound that's heard frequently in this big city of ours, the sound of art for sale, to the highest bidder. That's the voice of the auctioneer who cries the sales at one of Chicago's best known auction houses, the Chicago art galleries in the 5200 block of North Broadway. The gallery will auction practically anything from evacuses to zippers, but it specializes in objects of art, of one sort or another that does a big business. Here's what the director of the Chicago Art Gallery's Robert Goldstein has to say. The name played on the desk says Robert Goldstein, but a lot of the people that come to auction is known as Mr. Bob, isn't it, right? That's correct, Jim. And you've been in the Chicago Art Gallery ever since it was formed, in fact, you started it, didn't you? I did. Bob, tell me something about

the background of an art gallery of this sort, how you happen to get into business and how the whole thing gets started. Well, that's too long a story to go into at this time. I got into it accidentally, a brother and law of mine, was in this type of business, and I went in with him in a small way, and it developed after I got out and went on my own. Now, you have things that come in here to your sales from all over the nation as a matter of fact, not just Chicago. How do you go about getting the collections that go up for sale? Well, most of them come to us. I imagine it's recommendation. Most of them come through the trust departments of the banks and the lawyers. In most cases, I would say it's a question of the ceased of a man or a woman, and we also have a lot of other circumstances that bring in merchandise and art objects and furnishings, and when people re furnish and so forth. Now, some of the sales are just

one day sales, but others last a whole week. What determines the length of a sale? Well, the size of the estate, the number of interesting pieces that are to be sold and liquidated. Now, in these sales, you have things of great interest and great value. Do you have people come from all over to bid in the sales? Yes, we continually get letters and wires and phone calls from all over the country, even from Europe, on things that are valuable and interesting, and from museum, people show up and contact us also. Now, mostly the bids are from the floor, are they? Yes, but we also have, at every auction, a great number of bids that come in from people that can't attend the sale and ask us to get something within a certain price range or less if possible. In other words, they give you a bid and you try to buy it at that

price for the law on commission before them. We try and buy it for less if possible, which happens in most cases. If it goes beyond that price, then they are out of the picture and someone else gets it. What would you say was the most unusual sale you've ever had at the galleries? Well, it wasn't really the largest sale we ever had, but when we had that probate court sale for the Explorer, I think. Samuel Boranstein? Samuel Boranstein. I think that was the most interesting sale I've ever seen here in 20 -some years. It was a cross -section of everything imaginable. And everything imaginable from seashells to rare coins and musical instruments? It was a conglomeration of everything with old Egyptian pieces and authentic pieces from every country in the world. Bob, in the sales, do you establish a minimum value for the things that are going to be up at auction? No, we don't permit that. We only accept these consignments from folks that are willing to sell the items at

unrestricted sale. That means that if they bring quite a bit, it's all well and good, and if they go very reasonable, it's just too bad we did our best. Do you think that is one of the things that attracts people to auction sales? I know that is one of the reasons. And these collectors, the whole country, over, attend these different auction sales, looking for rare material, knowing that's the way they'll get a chance at acquiring it very reasonable. So you're Mr. Ernie O 'Boyle, after the boss of a boyle transfer. You do all the transferring, all the hauling of these sales, right? What do you do? Do you bring this stuff in here to the auction? In and out. And when somebody buys it, you carry it to their home. Is this a tough business? Oh, pretty tough. What do you have problems with? Well, pianos, once in a while. You mean just to move the piano? Yeah, up to stairs, yeah. But some of those little things you have to pack up and carry, those are pretty delicate to handle. Oh, yeah. Well, you got to pack them good. What's the biggest thing you ever had to carry from a sale Mr. Ernie O 'Boyle? Oh, about a

tonne pillar. A tonne pillar? Where would you get that? And a south -roaching porter's place. What was that? A sale out there in the oyster porter home? Who's this, uh, boarded, uh, dole and boarded, red dole and bottom? Boarded the house? Boarded all the stuff in there, yeah. Oh, I see. And how did you move those pillars? Well, about 12 men on them, on each one. So, so I was there. What did you go to? Who's there? He was out there, watching around there. What happened when you put it on the truck? Well, the truck, we had seven on them and once you went way down the back end. But they didn't fall off and break. Oh, no, no. We got them over on State Street. You ever break anything? Oh, no. Never break anything. Never break anything. Never break anything. You're always as careful as moverter is. You're always at these auctions, Mr. Ernie O 'Boyle. Do you ever bid on things yourself? No, never bid on anything. Do you collect anything? No, just money. That's a very good thing to play. Just money, that's all. They tell me you're the world's richest trucker. That's right. That's right. You have a big collection. Oh, yeah. Thank you very much. OK. Can I interrupt you with your work back here? Yes, sir. You're

Leon Cannexberg. And you're an antiquarian, is that it? That is correct. What do you do, Mr. Cannexberg, here at the Galeries? I am the research expert for the Chicago Art Galeries. And what do you research? Everything except oil paintings and furniture. Now, in this present sale, there are a number of old American coins. Is that the sort of thing that you... That's one of the many items that I research, yes. In this present sale, again, going back to the coins. Are there any that are unusual in the terms of American coins? For instance, I thought I saw a $50 gold piece. Is that an unusual coin? You are correct. There is a $50, 1851 California gold slug, which was current in California during the gold rush. Why is that rare and unusual? Most of them were melted down because they were worth more than the $50. I see you've got some things out here in front of you. Are these things that you yourself have purchased at all?

These were acquired by me at other auctions. And I merely show them to you to point out the fact that the great variety of things that can be purchased at an auction, because an auction, in my opinion, is a miniature art gallery for sale. In other words, when you go out on a day off, you take a sort of a busman's holiday. That is correct. That is correct. And you even buy things like these? Yes, now what you just picked up are a pair of Roman dice made out of bones. When you say you're rolling the bones, you're really rolling the bones. I have here a pair of modern dice plastic. And you can see that despite the fact that they look entirely different, they aren't exactly the same. Do you think that sometimes people can get a better bargain at an auction and they can't just go into a coin dealer, for example, and purchasing the same thing? Not only can they obtain a better price at auction, but often

many other objects of art. For example, Alexander Zlatov -Mersky, who was an art restore, recently purchased at auction three paintings for $2 ,200, which have now been authenticated as being worth over $1 million. Do you think that's the reason so many people are constant attendance at auctions? That's part of the reason. At auctions, you are able to obtain the finest furniture, brick a brick, and things that make the home more beautiful, as well as decorative pieces, that you cannot obtain easily anywhere else. What is your answer? James Paul Delaney. Mr. Delaney, you come to auctions for a very good reason. Yes, very often. What is the reason you attend these? Collect paintings. We had singular success in buying paintings at auctions. Yes, very definitely. Could you give me an example? Well, I purchased two

here at this gallery in the last ten years that one of them was just appraised recently at $1 ,000 ,000, the other one at $300 ,000. This is a good reason to come to auctions. What did you pay for the paintings? I don't remember the exact figures, something under $1 ,000 a piece for each one of them. Yes. And you're going to keep right on coming. Oh, I always intend to. Thank you very much, James Paul. You're Mrs. Goldstein, aren't you? Yes. And you have a particular field in this business of the juror, sort of an expert in it at any rate? Well, I wouldn't say that exactly, but I do like antique jewelry, particularly. This jewelry that's in this sale now is not particularly outstanding in this field, is it? Well, not necessarily. It's just that there happened to be some very lovely pieces in this sale, although there isn't a large amount of it as we have had in the past. There are some pieces that are most unusual and pieces that you don't see too often. But in the past,

you've had some famous sales, I suppose. Yes. Well, I would say the names of the people were. For instance. Well, we sold the jewels belonging to Mayor and Mrs. Kelly from Chicago and also part of the collection of Theta Barra, her jewelry. You know, there must be one great satisfaction for you in being able to see all these things and handle them all and even put them on and look at yourself in them once in a while. Isn't that kind of... Well, it is a satisfaction, particularly, when you know that you are helping people to acquire lovely things that they normally wouldn't buy or couldn't afford to buy in the regular way and also helping people to dispose of them, where we deal with an individual rather than in a state or as we do, you know, with the card or within a state. All these wonderful things are sometimes the temptation to buy them yourself.

Well, at times, there are things I would like to own, but we don't make a practice of that. Pardon me. Are you a dealer? No. Why do you come to the auction? I don't like quite a good little experience in the prices and whatnot. Are you planning to go into the business yourself? Probably someday. And sell a ride -off, you're not an auctioneering, but just an selling ride -off, you're a gentleman, is that right? Yes. Is this the first auction you've entered? No, I've been here for a while, coming here about seven years, I don't know. Do you enjoy it? Oh, yeah. I really come here and sit and home and watch and television. You saw your go -to. Yeah. You went and saw if I walked through this room with you. What is this room, by the way? Well, we call this a star -room and cataloging room. There are many fascinating things back here, but these are not going to be in the present set in this sale. No, that's for sale to be held in March. Do you mind if I ask you about some of the things I see piled up? What's this over here? That's an antique English pole screen. Pole screen made out of needle points and petty points.

What does a pole screen do? Well, they use it alongside a fireplace, so it will shield you from the fire. In those days, I suppose it was important to cut off a very important part. How about this reclining lady over here? That's an antique reclining Buddha Vista. A Buddha Vista? Yeah, carved out of Carrara marble, are probably in the I'd say. That's an expensive piece? Yeah, very expensive. Walking down the line here, I see a little piano. That's a very modern piece, very modern piano. But things like that do come out of the sales. We get everything. And people bid on them. Yeah, we get everything. Well, how about this suite of furniture over here? This was in the sale, wasn't it? Yeah, this was so last night. Why is it in here just moved in? Well, it doesn't move in. Yeah, for it to make extra space. Certainly, handsome stuff. What is it? Yeah, very nice. This is a Louis XV card wall, that Obeson set T.

Quite long, isn't it? It's longer than the inner. Yes, it is. Yes, it's about seven feet. What are some of the other pieces? Well, here's an antique, kind of 15th inlaid table desk, inlaid with the marketery and tinted ivory and mounted in bronze door A. Is there actually demand for pieces as ornate as this? Well, just to give you an idea, Jim, the Obeson set T fetched $1 ,150 last night. See, that's a lot of money. No, it isn't. In New York, you'd have to probably pay around $45 ,000 with that piece. Do you have a lot of people's solid come here regularly to bid on pieces of this sort? Are there people who collect pieces like this? There's 50 -50, I'd say, 50 % are dealers and 50 % are regular collectors, that really appreciate fine old things. And you cannot go into regular channels and buy anything like this. I suppose when you say dealers, do you mean interior decorators? Interior decorators, yes. And why do they buy things of this

sort? Well, they probably have the customers for it. In other words, they envision this and some clients form as a boy. When they buy it, it's practically sold. Number 775 is a diagram of Madden Reckambierre in Ivory Parkantry Inlay with an Ebony's frame. This is a very fine old piece in excellent condition. I worry the addition to most any collection. What is your pleasure? $25 is 50, 60, 70, 75. 80, 85 is big. 85 by half, going at 85. $90 is big. 90, 95. 95, 95, 95, 95. Going at 95 hours. 95 hours, once? Twice. So, 95 hours. Next slide. Well, it's a fast netting room bag here, Perry. Is this where you usually work? Well, this is where we unpack the stuff and we always use it to come in. It comes in from all over, doesn't it? Everywhere. Out of old homes,

warehouses. That's right. You'd be surprised what comes in some time from the surprise anybody. What sort of things would surprise you? So much stuff I'm telling you. It's all kinds of dressing, mison, brick or brick of all kind. How long have you been working in this business? Well, I've been here with this firm 16 years. And were you in the same business before that? This is the first time I've been in one. In 16 years, you've seen as you indicate a lot of strange things. Have you had any interesting experiences with the stuff that's come in for the sales? Well, yes you have. On some things that comes in, you'd be surprised what people collect. That's interesting. Some of them have buttons that collect. You'd be surprised at that. And of all kinds of stuff. When you go through these things that come in to you, search through the drawers and look through the books and things like that. Well, sometimes we have, but usually we don't have the time. I don't, especially maybe somebody else do. But that's a real thing for me. If I open it, I don't have time. Because I have

to do other things. What sort of other things do you have to do? Well, have to keep it, know where you put it, know the stock. That's what I have to do. Most of the things. All the time I'm doing something else, either hip catalog or something like that. There must be thousands of different things here at the galleries. And you say you have to know where everything is. Do you ever lose things? Well, sometimes. I remember slips on me sometimes. When you put something away, and then you come on it months later. That's right. Have anything like that that you can tell us about? Did you ever put something rare away and couldn't find it? Well, the rarest things. I don't usually don't be bothered with that too much. It's just, if it's small. But big things, I mean, that's not hard to find. There's something just like a little small piece of a dressing or mice or something like that. You may put it away in some cabin or something. But otherwise, that's all. Everything is pretty easy to find. Do you collect things yourself, Barry? No. You don't have a hobby of collecting things? I don't have no hobby. Because I don't have that much money to make that

much too. I have a hobby for this. It costs a little bit too much for me. Mr. Walker, I see you out of a lot of these auctions. And you're one of the important bidders at these sales. You're not a dealer, are you? No, I'm not a dealer. When I'm nothing important, I'm just, that's my hobby. Why do you come to the auctions? Because it is your hobby? Yes, it is my hobby. You've got some important paintings, and I say all the night, what are you going to bid on? And the constable. You like that best of the things you've seen? The best, I see. What do you think of the Russell? Yes, the Russell and their amings done. Also, that's watercolour -dory. And I'm not that concerned about watercolour. How about the Turner? The Turner is a beautiful thing, but it's not to my liking. What do you think you're going to go home with? I hope with the constable. Thank you. Well, Bob Goldstein, can I get back to you again now? They tell me, Bob, that these are quite a fine collection of paintings that are on sale at this sale. Yes, Jim. We had among all the various collectors and connoisseurs and paintings, Dr. Maurice Goldblatt, director of the Art Museum at Notre Dame University, in here, who thought this was a

particularly wonderful collection of paintings. Incidentally, he is the head of our state. The staff and paintings in that we retain him by the year for the old masters, whether they're right or wrong, and if they aren't what they're supposed to be, we mark them attributed to their school of, and so forth. Well, now, here's Pam Dennis Castle, J .M .W. Turner, and that's quite a distinguished name and art, and that's not a school of our attributed, too. No, that's a genuine Turner, original painting by Turner. One of his early pictures. You can see the ethereal mystical quality in it. It's just magnificent. Over here's a name, Constable. Is that also John Constable? That's the real John Constable. That's the great John Constable. It's an original painting by him. It has all the background history, and you can see the powerful action in the sky. It's a great painting. Over here in a little case, if I might lead you over this way because I want to go over and look at it, our two names that are quite familiar to

lovers of the Old West in the United States. There's a Frederick Remington and a CM Russell. These are little pictures, but I imagine they're fairly rare, aren't they? Yes, they are rare and very much in demand. We happen to have certificates by the leading authority in the world on Russell and Remington. Harold McCracken and the certificate will be given to each purchaser who buys these paintings. That's Hans Holbein over there. Is that the famous Holbein? The famous Holbein, as far as the nameplate goes, that is one of the pictures that came in from the estate as a Holbein. And after discussing it with our staff, we marketed school of Holbein instead of by Holbein himself. And the people who come in and purchase bid on this painting are aware that this is the school of Hans Holbein. Instead of being painted by him himself. In other words, that means that possibly either by a pupil of his or somebody during that period that painted in his style. I was talking a little while ago to Leon

Kenningsburg and he mentioned that paintings watered auction for a few hundred dollars sold for a tremendous price later on. Said that was one of the reasons that people attended auctions and bid on these objects of art. I suppose you've had experiences like that right here. We have one of the art experts from the Vatican in Rome appraised three paintings in the Chicago area as being by great masters. Two of those three valued at, as the Lost Bellini, at $300 ,000. And the other as a jarjony at $1 million were purchased at the Chicago Art Gallery here approximately a couple of years ago. The Bellini at about $650 and the jarjony at around $1 ,000. We had sold them under other

attributions, other names, because those were the names that were sent in to us when we sold them for the estate. See, Mr. Bob, do you see any pictures around here that I ought to bid on that I might make it? I've heard that. I've heard that question quite a bit in the last few weeks since these articles have gone all over the world through Associated Press and United Press. But you can't point out anyone to me right this minute that I ought to bid on and make $1 million. It's up to me as the buyer to... It's strictly a speculation. 95, going at $95 each. 95. Once? Twice? One hundred each is bid. One hundred. One hundred. One of five. One of five. One ten. One ten. One ten. One hundred and ten dollars each, I hear. Going at one hundred and ten dollars each. What? Twice? So, one hundred and ten dollars each. Both. Thank you. Art for sale. And you can be the highest bidder,

armchair variety on the city in sound. Jim Herbert reporting, engineering by George Wilson. Next week, the Sound of Goodwill.