Black Horizons; 2339; Housing

Hi, this is Black Horizons and I'm Chris Moore. Today actor Anthony Thompson brings the words of the great author and poet Langston Hughes to life through one of my favorite characters, Jesse B. Simple. You'll come to love Jesse's outlook as much as I do when you see him later on today's show. Mom's house is helping young single parents stand on their own here in Pittsburgh. We'll find out just how they're doing that in a few minutes. We've got all of that today and the Tanner calendar too, but first there is much debate nowadays as to whether or not discrimination is ended. Many people both black and white say that much of it has and it's time for minorities to make their own way in the world without the aid of special programs. That may be true, but a new national study conducted by the Urban Institute and Syracuse University says that when it comes to trying to rent or buy housing in Greater Pittsburgh, minorities still face discrimination in order to examine this issue more closely. Black Horizons has assembled these three people, Robert R. Levelle, executive vice president

of dwelling house savings and loan. In the mid-1960s, Mr. Levelle was the plaintiff in a case that was headed to the Supreme Court of this nation that opened up the multi-list to black realtors. Mrs. Stewart Cohen, who has supervised the Pittsburgh portion of the National Study on Housing Discrimination that I spoke of earlier, and Roy Perrain, the vice president of the Apartment Association of Metropolitan Pittsburgh. Mr. Perrain's group is a trade association whose members are the folks who rent apartments in this area. Gentlemen, welcome to our program. Mr. Levelle from the historical purpose you and I have talked about this before. You were involved in that suit in the 1960s. You saw it as a landmark case that opened up multi-list to black realtors. First of all, what is multi-list and what was the importance of that case? Well, multi-list controls the houses that are listed and sold in the country. And as a black person, I was not permitted to join.

I had recourse under the Commission on Human Relations here, discrimination, and they would have find the people $100 and slapped them on a wrist. And I would still have been discriminated against. But the only way that I could try to break the barrier was to go through federal court, which meant I had to use a federal law. We used the Sherman and a Trust Act, Restraint of Trade provisions of 1890 to inter-fetal court against the multi-list people of Pittsburgh. And you were successful in winning the suit? 18 months later, I became the first black multi-list in the country. Prior to that time, how was discrimination when it came to trying to buy a house for a black person in force? What happened? Well, it was right after the war. I became a broker in 1951, which was six years or so after World War II. Housing was very scarce as it remains today in some instances.

And for a black person to obtain a house, well, he took what was left. The crumbs that were left after everyone else had gotten all they could from the house when the house was the roof leaked, or the foundation sagged, and the doors didn't shut good. They had to spend more to heat the house. Absolutely. And there was no access to quality housing. That's right. That's right. From the source where realty started, you couldn't get to it. That's right. Realtors wouldn't show you the houses at the beginning. They wouldn't let me join the multilist and share in the sale of the properties. I was a real estate broker. So you were discriminated on two ends. You couldn't participate in the profit that this capitalist system says that we're supposed to be all about, and the black folks could not buy the houses' period. That's right. Because they weren't sure. The way to maintain discrimination, maintain segregated neighborhoods, maintain schools that were different and maintain everything was through segregated housing.

Mr. Cohen, I guess things have changed a lot for the better, but there's still some discrimination out there, your study has found. Oh yes. And in fact, I wouldn't even say things. I don't know what the extent of discrimination was back in those days. I suspect it was much more uniform and systematic, but there is still plenty of systematic discrimination that occurs today. What have you found? The important thing to note about it is that it occurs with a handshake and a smile. It's not something that a black person, as long as they're treated cordially and reasonably, has even reason to suspect that they may have been discriminated against. And the form the discrimination takes is intentionally misrepresenting the situation. If a person comes and says, I'd like to look at this unit, which is advertised in the paper.

They're told in some cases the unit has already been rented or sold. And that's, in many cases, not true. And therefore, they're prevented from even seeing it and considering whether or not they'd like to live in that unit. Mr. Perrain, as an official, you're the vice president of the Trade Association that we mentioned earlier. How do you view what is still going on in the industry? Well, City of Pittsburgh is a large city, and I'm sure it's still going on, but we as a trade organization are trying to help our members and educate our members in every way we can to stop it and make them aware of what the law is, the Federal Housing Act, and make them aware of the whole thing. So they're ongoing education programs within your group? Yes, there is, Chris. Okay. I guess, too, I'm wondering exactly what you did find and how you're going to proceed from here. Well, back, see, the local results are not yet published, and the study has been conducted. Yes, but they didn't what's called disaggregated by metropolitan area.

They published, they didn't break it down to say, for example, this level occurs in Pittsburgh, this level in Miami, this level in Washington, they just summed it up for the country as a whole. And the national figures show, for example, that in the, against African-Americans who tried to rent, in 59% of the cases, there's some level of discrimination. And in the case of sales, it's 56%. And also, the study did indicate that the differences between one metropolitan area and another, let's say, Pittsburgh and Washington or Pittsburgh and New York are rather small. And I remember, based on what we had done, we, I may have counted in a different way than the computer that did the national analysis. But before I sent all the results into Washington from what we had done here in Pittsburgh,

four figures were basically in exactly the same ballpark. I think it was something like 49%, in 49% of the cases, parental and 46% of the cases for sales, there was some evidence of discrimination. Mr. Laval, are you at all surprised that these things haven't changed so much since 1951? Not at all. It's the human condition, it's racism. And that's a word that's bandied about quite a bit, but it's still very prevalent. One person who thinks that he is better or superior to another or who wants to be better or superior or wants to bring their children up that way will practice over and types of discrimination that they don't realize are practicing even. But it's just that they're trying to maintain what they consider adequacy for themselves. That's right, absolutely.

Mr. Cohen, are things going to continue? Will you continue to do more study in this area? Well, locally, we've just initiated a program here as part of the Urban League based on a grant from HUD, and we call the program the Greater Pittsburgh Fair Housing Program. And what we aim to do is to do tests on the basis of particular complaints. You're going to send testers out of equal economic background, but one might be black, and one might be his man, and one might be white. And see if there are any difference. And see if there are any ¡people in every other respect. And that way you eliminate when you get the results back all the potential excuses that are sometimes offered. Why this person might not have been qualified. Mr. Perreina, I guess you are soYes, before a war and you're armed, will you be spreading this word? Then Mr. Cohen's forces are descending upon your members and keep your eyes open. as open and be cordial and open? Absolutely, we'll be telling our members and hoping our members abide by the law

and we expect them to abide by the law. But does it take this kind of effort to get, I had to put this into a you guys versus we guys kind of thing, but does it take this kind of effort to get the renters to open up, to know that you're being watched every moment, is that what it's gonna take to indiscrimination? I don't think there's always some people that are not gonna get the message, Chris. As a whole though, I think we're doing a good job and people I'm affiliated with, the majority of them are doing their best. And much has been made in a recent newspaper article about several employees of a national company in Elco saying that their company discriminated. I called the president, Mr. Shrota, who had no comment declined to appear on the program. His company is a member of your organization, as a matter of fact, the president is the president of the Trade Association. What would happen if one of those companies who is a member of your organization were convicted of discrimination? What would you do as an organization to them? Well, if they're fined guilty and convicted,

I guess we'd have to ask him to step down and resign from the organization. We have certain bylaws that we can put into effect in the fall of the procedure until we have to do this. And I guess you'll be on the watch for Mr. Cohen and his folks coming out. Are there things, have you telegraphed your punches? No, but I mean, in fact, even if I do telegraph the punches, I'm concerned, not with catching people, I'm concerned that everybody get a chance to live wherever their hearts desire leads them to. And if we don't have to do any, if we don't catch anybody, but miraculously, discrimination stops, I'd be more than pleased. You've done your job, right? Mr. Levelle, what is your perspective on all of that? I mean, you've been working longer than anybody here to end this kind of thing. I don't see disappointment in your face. No, and there isn't, just because I have a hope that transcends what we're talking about, laws and people and all that. My hope is that someone will recognize somewhere that God didn't create us to live as adversaries,

but to live as people who are in community. We are a global society, whether we want to recognize it or not. And we really need to start living that way. That means that we're going to try to help that other person have the same thing we want for ourselves. And that's the only way anything will ever change. And I know that that is so. While I continue to work in this, these practical, so to speak, and economic areas that you know about. All right, well, Jim, and thanks for being here. And I hope what you hope is what actually turns out to be the case, all right? That's it. Okay, thank you, Jim, and we appreciate it. As this study has revealed blacks in this country continue to face problems such as housing discrimination. One of the greatest writers America ever produced was Langston Hughes. He had the ability to examine many of the problems that confront blacks with a rye sense of humor. Here's an example of what I mean. Meet actor Anthony Thompson as one of Langston Hughes's most memorable characters, Jesse B. Simple.

I've had so many hardships in my life. Well, I was born young, like vote lists, poor, and hungry. See, I was born in a state where white vote did not even put the Negro on the census. That's right. You see, my daddy and my granddaddy both told me that they were never counted in their lives by the United States government. And nobody could find the vote certificate for me anywhere when I was born. That was not until I moved from down south up the Harlem that one day, a synthesizer, he come on around by my house and he knocked on my door. He asked me where I was born, why I was born. My age.

And if I was still living. I said, oh, yes, daddy, old buddy, old friend of mine. I am still here in spite of all. Well, you know since the take us, they like to get all the information. So he said to me, well, simple and spite all what? I said, well, for one thing, I'm still here in spite of all my cons and bind you. It seemed like I was born with cons. It seemed like most color people get cons so young and alive they must be in heaven. Hey, for munchies, they come natural. We stand on our feet so much work. Now, you take these feet of mine for instance. These feet of mine have stood in everything from supplies to the draft board. Support if everything from a pack and truck to a home, reward them. My feet have walked 10,000 miles run errands for White Folk and another 10,000 trying to keep up with the colors. My feet have stood in arthas, bars, graves, kitchen doors, cropped tables, welfare windows and social security elements.

I told that man to be sure and include my feet. On that instance, he took. Then I went on to tell him how in fact my feet has helped to make America rich due to all the money I've spent on my feet. Hey, I, well, about 800 pairs of shoes in my days. The socks I bought for my feet could have made a knitting long. And Lord, I ain't said nothing about them. They raised the blades that I bought to cut the horns away from my toes. Lord, I know they pay for raised plants. You know, my feet has in fact helped to make America rich. And you know what? I'm still standing on them. See, one day I was walking down the street and I stepped on the rest of the nail and my nail had locked off. And from my feet up, since so many other things have happened to me, it's the wonder I'll die before my time. When my time I been cut, stabbed, rub, hit over the head, run over by a truck, hit by a car, double-crossed

delta seconds of mining their black mills, but yet I am still here. I have been eliminated, installed, segregated, integrated, locked up, locked in, locked out, let's hold in the bag, denied welfare, cut in the rain, cut in jail, cut short with my rent, and also caught with the wrong woman. But I am still here. I have been laid off by it, not rehired, underpaid, underfed in everything, but undertaken. But yet I am still here. And you see, the only thing that I am afraid of now is that I will die before my time. So I told that since the second you better go here and on to put me on lessons, did you take initiative? See, because I may not be here when the next sister comes right. Well, since the second you look at me, he say, well, Mr. Temple, what is it you expect to die of? Complain it? No.

I didn't know. I do not expect to die of complaining. See, I told him I expect to just to ugly away. Now, at which I thought the man would laugh, it said you know he nodded his head and wrote it down. I mean, he did not know that I was making a joke. Now, do you really think that man thought I was ugly or something? I have the details of what the black arises. That's the first time I've seen you do simple, man. Yeah, I've seen him done before, but that was good. I really enjoyed it. I like the right sense of width it likes him. He was brought to him. You think it all as simple as dated at all nowadays? dated? Yeah. Do you think he's dated? He's not outdated. You know, I think I think simple is the material still

relevant to the day's times, and you know, it still relates to the problems that we have today. You know, you're going to be performing him in another original work that you have put together on November 7th and 8th or November 8th and 9th. Where's this going to be? This is at the Carnegie Homewood Library. Okay, tell us very quickly about the other work. The other work is on the Lord's Path, which is a original drama that I wrote about a young slave that escapes punishment after being caught reading from his master's library. And that's done with African dancing, which I do. And I'm in Features African drummers, Suleiman Rucker, and Jomo Steven. So this is going to be a great evening. A great evening. You do both simple and on the Lord's Path on both evenings. On both evenings. Okay, well thanks for being here. I know it's going to be a success. I urge all of our audience to get out there and see you, okay? Thanks a lot. All right, we appreciate it. And who's your guitarist back here? Our guitarist back here is William L. Harden from Clarence. William L. Harden, I want that hat.

From Clarence and VA, okay? All right, well we're going to do our talent to get Tanner Calendar now. And this week's Tanner Calendar takes us around the world and brings new heights to art and offers some great classic entertainment. Patricia Prattis Jennings will be performing Mozart's piano concerto with orchestra tomorrow night at the Jewish Community Center. What other incentive do you need? Call 521-8010 for details. Jamaican artist Bernard Hoyes will be exhibiting his work at Noir Lifestyles tomorrow afternoon. In case you didn't know, Noir Lifestyles is responsible for the fabulous art on our set. They're located on East Carson Street on the south side. More information you can call 431-1131. Simply the best entertainment is what Anthony Thompson brings to his adaptation of nice and huge tales of simple. Over glass of beer and some jazz tunes, Jesse B. Simple will charm audiences as he talks about life in Harlem, indeed all over Black America.

So come to the Homewood Carnegie Library November 8th or 9th, settle back in your chair and enjoy tales of simple. For more information call 922-2374. If you haven't already checked out the Carnegie International now's the time. It will be here through February. But hey, you can go more than once. This 51st exhibit features the work of 43 artists from around the world and has expanded to include outdoor spaces. See the world without leaving the city. If you want to know more call 622-1975. Hope you're not afraid of heights or you'll miss out on the arts of 30 exhibition. Located on the 30th floor of the C&G Tower, you have until January to view the works of four artists including Sahu Omanin and Jai, a fiber artist whose African roots are sometimes revealed in a surreal way. Take the elevator. Take the stairs. I don't care.

Just take the time to see this exhibit. To find out more call 3610-873. Remember to let us know if you have an IT event for our Tanner calendar. The address to write is Black Horizons 48-025th Avenue Pittsburgh PA-15213. Mom's house helps young single parents as they seek to better their family's lives. They provide support services as parents return to school or seek training for better paying jobs with opportunities for advancement. Here to tell us more are Beth Vanis, director of the mom's house at the Swiss Vale location and dual pinder, a single mother who is a nursing student at Carlow College. Ms. Pinder, may I start with you please? It looks like you just got here from class, right? Yes, I do, not too long ago. Okay, what is mom's house meant to you in terms of being able to go back to school? Well, it's been a lot for me. What helped me to further my career, obviously, as a nursing student at Carlow College? I'm now a junior student there and I'm studying medical surgical at this moment.

And I'm working on the oncology floor at Montefrol Hospital and I also provide a place for my daughter Jasmine to go, be around other children and she's learning very much. They spend a lot of time with the children there. They take them on field trips and they spend so much time with them. They're like a family in themselves. So this has helped you to reduce daycare costs and it's giving your child a quality education. Yes, it is. Okay, Ms. Bannis, why are you providing this service? The need is obvious, but I just want to ask the question. Well, hopefully we're hoping in the long run to help single parents get back on their feet and integrate themselves successfully into society again so that it can become self-sufficient. You say single parents, I imagine you mean males who are taking care of a family also. We would accept, right now, our clientele happens to be only females, but we would accept males along with females as well. What's the most important service you think you're offering?

Probably the free child care. Child care is such a high expense and single parents really find this stumbling block when trying to further their education. So while we provide free child care, they can go off to school with a piece of mind to actually concentrate on their studies. Spend a D.F. piece of mind because of mom's house. Oh, yes I do because I know Jasmine's in good hands. The children get to play, they have nap time, she gets fed, and I really don't have to worry because whenever I come home, I can tell that she's had a good time. She's tired, she's worn out. Just what you need, have that little baby, right? Yeah, give me time to study. And she's not afraid, I can leave her there and it's almost like I'm not even missing because she's in good hands and she's developed that type of relationship with the staff there that she knows the mom by name and that she can go to them without any fright. What would you do if you did not have mom's house? What would I do if I did not?

Well, goodness, that's a good question because there's so much that I've accomplished with them if I did not have them. I wouldn't know where I would be at because I was able to go to school and through furthering my education, I was also able to obtain a job at Western Psych on the Geriatrics floor. So it's more like what I wouldn't be able to do if they weren't there. It sounds like you also intend on giving something back to mom's house. Yes, I do. Yes, I do. To let them know that they weren't in vain at all. And you're having some fun raises. I understand the mothers are participating in those kinds of things to help. Yes, we do. So just this past Saturday, we had a rocker thorn down at the PPG building where we rocked from 9 in the morning to 9 at night if capable or if you were able. But since I wasn't able to, because I had to work, I rocked from 6 to 9. And we're also supposed to be having a spaghetti dinner, but the plans aren't fully developed yet, so things are still unsure. If there are people out there who think that they might need the services of mom's houses there, they can call.

They can call our main office at 531 moms, M-O-M-S. That's 531-M-O-M-S. And that's the number to call. Are the kinds of services that you're offering? We offer tutoring, parenting, help with parenting issues, help with material things such as food and clothing. You mean for the family? Beyond what the child might eat while they're in daycare? If they needed further supplies at home, we would give them that, provided that we had it. We would definitely help them out with that type of things and tutoring. Have you noticed that there is a high number of people who need your services? That there are a high number of people who need your service and a shortage of services to offer? Are you in that predicting or not? There are, we have two houses in the city, one serving the southern part of the city, and one the eastern part of the city. Both houses are full and we do have waiting lists for both houses. So you could use some donations or anything else that would help? I'll start with that. Somebody should come over to the spaghetti dinner and eat up a lot. They can call that same 531-M-O-M-S and find out more about it.

It's certainly good. Okay. What would you say, last comment, you get it, Ms. Pender? What would you say to folks out there who were in your position a while ago and might need this kind of help? I know a lot of females or males that are in my position are afraid to seek help. They tend to feel like they're the only ones going through this situation or in that predicament. And I would say to them, don't be afraid. Get all the help you can get, even though it's free services and everything. And people tend to be embarrassed by it, but there's nothing to be embarrassed about. Okay. You look forward to your career in nursing? Yes, I do. I enjoy it. It hurts when I do that. What would you say? Well, you may have hurt yourself to pull something up. It's about to say, don't do that. Okay. Thanks for being here. We appreciate it and we wish you much success with your new career as your training and much success with mom's house and the services that you're offering. Okay. Thank you both for being here. Well, I'm Chris Moore. That's all the time that we have for this edition of Black Horizons. Thanks for joining us.

Bye. Thank you.