The View from the Hill; Student Participation in University Decisions

we find that they have juli niemann you can't be expected to know with in that respect what's the next an apology i'm jacki

lyden do you do that mm mm i am like there's like other things

of academic and professional success rate for innovation on the madness of decision that that building is not the way to reach a decision in all circumstances and he was an american theme the decision i'm an academic we should work together recognizing that education isn't that it was processed most successful when the oceans and cooperation and about his loss and then that we

reject the motion and intimately for us or anyone that straitjacket of messages that this discussion about university our understanding of that and he said you know the teacher and he was really a gentleman yes you can and he was right and you

know to jewish family and i think john ryder rose to answer doctor gets remarks chairman the previous speaker who say you know i have to say whatever you had to say to supersede because november according to robert's rules of order was once had the floor is again entitled to it while the same question is before the assembly provided the floor is played by what was not spoken on that question when jon just replies them and later this is what he said previous substantive speaker i believe the chairman of our mechanical engineering has made a couple points that was not stand before a body of intelligent and

goodwill individuals one of these is an assumption that borders on an insult to the student members of the university community were quite able to defend themselves but i am offended by it and so our eyes pointed out to you it sells what seemed to me an insulting degree of incompetence and irresponsibility on the part of his students crystal lee has taught none of mine or did know better and i don't believe that they are a second class students in the college of engineering i think that those students like walton's in this university can and will continue to demonstrate the highest degree of responsibility and concern for this institution and the quality and high standards of their education if only we would let them help us do that

more over he is obviously had no experience with students on committees for everyone who has done so an outspoken of that experience you know either this body or the faculty senate has repeated again and again for our year is the experience they had no dedicated responsible concerned students whose attendance record whose willingness to wear and i might add whose knowledge of fair and honest parliamentary procedure exceeds that of the faculty john wright the chairman of that eu english department george worth talked about his department's experiences with student participation when he spoke in favor of three point four point two george works singing three point four point two two weeks ago with the most extraordinary step

for a benign assembly in a benign institution previously guarantee legal access to decision making machinery for a segment of our community we in effect cut off that relax temporarily i trust but the original report but the fact is but university counselor university senate in three successive meetings at yourself to be incapable of acting on its own rules and regulations and the members of the senate have only their apathy the line for the necessary clearance of the procedure three point four point two was adopted last spring and a number of large schools and apartments which i have not have moved in good faith to comply

with the provisions the recession of three point four point two and the guarantees that provides was a rector a gray an anti democratic staff i'm worthy of an assembly line institution thank you i am not surprised that are taking this unfortunate step has led to equally unfortunate demand for fifty percent and student representation i come from the largest department in the universe and next to the college of liberal arts and sciences the second largest administrator during the universe we have had growing formal involvement

or for you and we are now in full compliance with the original three point four point two it may raise some fears if i speak very briefly about art there is we don't single exceptional which i don't knock student participation in our policymaking has been totally responsible and constructive indeed i would gladly trade faculty members with allies as with whom i've come into contact in nearly two decades a university teaching and a decade of people looking to stretch undergraduates unfortunately are as important a graduate student organization so what's his own representative john

department medics and every single one with the war has been a dedicated student in the best traditional sense of the word our students and i think your students are no no for our students are smart enough to recognize a student and a representative and a capable person when they see one and i wouldn't sort of representatives these departments are notoriously activist but at the state won the professionals student of the scariest sort described a recent days ago as a member of any of our policy making body if this is not an isolated is inconceivable it's

b rather closer my friend milton steinhardt spoke eloquently two weeks ago about the responsibility of the faculty to set academic policy i agree or not but i think to see how student representation on the scale called for by the original motion would occasionally violent that responsibility i don't know the word in court but it seems to vary based on my experience of my own apartment but the original motion three point four point two alcorn no less and no more than significant student on a unit for minimum bases throughout the university and adidas is terribly important for academic decision making

major responsibility rests with the faculty where it belongs but the student voice will be higher and unless my department's experience is probably an obstacle it will be i cannot adequately describe for you hear now i'm a graduate student more on english missal says the founding of a grad student association at its involvement department offers four years ago i could only wish for you and here we have one a conflict of interest with student representation more than once i know it but i simply don't see on a supply if we talk as we have been about determination of general policy and not the disposition of individual cases graduation requirement he has not

gotten complicated any more than you or i were involved in a conflict of interest when we voted on the general question of liquor monitoring on tuesday if on the other hand the vote with a committee the oil as to whether he passed examination or not we have a totally different situation only grows situation which no one had mine and which is adequately anticipated in the new three point four point two points i think education as george worth the substitute proposal would use overtly all the issue of hands there was another substitute proposal this one from assistant professor of history henry mckean the mckinney had been fighting for the four he was the one of the late john rights remarks earlier and his presentation with some objections from other members took nearly half an hour his proposal was similar to the defeated motion of williams' overt emotion was killed when the senate voted not to consider it an amendment to three point four point two was introduced to make the definition of a student

conform to standards listed in the university cataloged it passed another amendment was accepted by doctors other who introduced three point four point to as a friendly amendment eliminated qualified and interested from the restrictions on student representatives has ever agreed that there was nothing would set faculty members had to be qualified or interested so the restriction on students was dropped one more major amendment the one that students in the balcony had come to hear and yet to be presented student senator george martin spoke up on an anything we didn't listen to me and we've seen that realize again that bias has to be a vote on three point four point two was delayed so that student body

president bill hubert could propose an amendment that's a twenty percent representation by students be changed to fifty percent there was a motion against considering the amendment it failed and hubert was allowed to continue i'm like to speak in favor of the motion to amend three point four point two to include fifty percent student representation of school and what malcolm is a native know i have twenty two thousand signatures in support of them in i'm not tempting in any way to represent those two thousand four and sixty eight people but for those of us who are sincerely interested in the issue of community initiatives didn't participate in these signatures serve as real evidence proposition twenty five hundred students and faculty we come to this university is entering freshmen morris first your faculty members were promised membership in what is called a university

community the promise of the community was amiss and will continue to be met as long as one elite group of persons insists upon having the exclusive right of defining the membership of the community in nineteen seventy students objects to being manipulated prison security and again but all sorts of western interests that look at the election results of tuesday two weeks ago when this intercepted three point four point two students were strongly reminded by kansas university that they were still despite claims of progressive university governance second class citizens stents are continually told to work within the system and yet two weeks ago this body voted to eliminate our access to the system as far as any one seems to know the actions by oct twenty seven was unprecedented throughout all higher education no university has said yes you can participate

and then no you can't change her mom's you even begin to understand what that does to students or to anyone we're already does affiliated by war by intolerance and by hypocrisy which prevents this country can you even attempt to relate to that some people don't believe that you can but i think that you can not you can relate as people but you have difficulty relating as faculty because of the stereotype images and rules of yourselves and students which have taken over the perspective of some people through the process which this universe he makes will never be fulfilled one night this week reagan's election richard seymour i was reading through a copy of the college

catalog from nineteen sixty eight sixty nine and i found a following stayed there remains another and more profound requirement for freedom that is right tj a man is lacking in freedom in proportion as he is bound by commitments which he has not freely chosen or yearly chooses means to men's already and consciously adopting or imposed upon him from beyond itself statement was on the college catalog when one year ago on a stretch of my imagination can i conclude that this theory has been implemented at the university of kansas thomas was a new way to replace it the statement goes on to say that education is liberal insofar as it clockwise again kitchen is deeply and fundamentally pigeons just ends as well as maine's just remote as well as immediate hands dishes for money rather than from few

possibilities and then you go on to page twenty three the same catalogue and find five pages virginia's requirements speech requirements foreign language requirements mathematics requirements websites requirements western civilization requirements and distribution requirements with a complete description of what are called possible courses majors and great moments as a student participation can confront institutionally to us in good conscience say that the promises including this article from the college catalog have been fulfilled or that any attention was paid to the notion of freedom on june twenty seven when they see how a silent violence which is committed on each of us in the name of community is to use the words the college catalog of force which makes us really choose means to millions which are already

imposed on us from beyond ourselves does less concerned with a deeper sense did representation are simply saying that if the university is to make promises about freedom and a quote community of scholars and equal rights in the university must be pretty prepared to live up with promises there's no intention of letting up twenty percent but then perhaps fifty percent is not appropriate all the arguments which support twenty percent also support fifty percent simply allowing for quote input is not a change when the overwhelming balance lies the status quo politicians i hope that the two thousand four hundred sixty eight people who signed a petition will not allow his body to ignore them it has

been and summarily dismissed them as insignificant the goal is not to create a token twenty percent to satisfy some students in cairo university the goal is for the university to live up to its promises don't promise for him and the promising quality of rights there is no intention of living up to those promises we take seriously until recent years body presidents build deeper discussion of that fifty percent proposal brought these comments from professor of geography robert monday i have over twenty years of writing for effective student representation and the operations departments schools and universities

sen kerry i would like very much to support the mystery board has made about life to speak against the motion were three rather compelling reasons like to share these reasons that at this time i will be in breach of the reason is it seems to me the goal is to obtain effective stanton representation or use the terminology that was used in the student senate the open meeting a week ago last wednesday the state was made by putting responsibility for his education and part in anniston preceding that education that principle i very much juan except it seemed to me that the move at this time to a fifty percent representation of stevens and fifty percent

representation of factly does indeed force us into a position where each group will be very much inclined to develop an intransigent set of demands on the other and i think it would not lead to effective or just occasionally there's something but at this time would lead to a kind of most unfortunate statement my second reason is that if we were to adopt a fifty percent rule but i think the students at this time would be denied something which perhaps they would find not particularly viable but i think would be extremely valuable which is they would not have a ready spigot and i think at this point as we get further ability to effectively participate in the decision making up their own education at this data spigot is necessary that is certain to me in the last couple three weeks that is indeed they had an effective representation

of a fifty percent of rioting that this would constitute i kind of base from which they could indeed affect significantly the education i would argue the problem came to happen with a fifty percent representation of stevens is that indeed they would be so compelled by a decision there by may that effected minority students borrow objection would not be very significant my third reason is very pragmatic that is mainly that what we are proposing here is not a maximum of twenty percent representation we're proposing a mandatory minimum the things to me that fifty percent representation should indeed exists on many committees of apartments and universities and america from the standpoint of the goals of the pacific command this bad representation is feasible and effective than i was

i do think that there's an objective fifty percent representation on all committees are making recognition of the realities that <unk> motion so mostly ignored thank you robert stewart says the insider karen balcombe repeated remarks she made at the protesters and rally the day before or when she called for a vote if i say what i'm about to say before it would do that the first apollo coming up what's been going on here i am nothing but the highest parts for a lot of family members you know teaching at the university of kansas and i have been saying we spent the month alston senators that moment when you know presented his amendment he felt so many of the things isn't that a great deal of the company website to and i've heard comments for twenty percent representation

i've heard comments to fifty percent representation and that the common understanding is that representation is needed and that change is needed i like to say that image says that might be the serenity to accept the things i cannot change the courage to change things that can be changed and wisdom to know the difference that discussion about before i come to question the question amending the regulation required fifty percent instead of twenty percent and representation failed the arguments have been heard for and against participation by students in the affairs of the university there were proposals and counter proposals and amendments and tempers but the hour was late and the time had come for what everyone expected a new regulation three point four point to providing

for twenty percent student representation on all university policy making committees was a pro but universities and at the hour was late and sometimes grinding wheels of democracy seem to move more quickly when it gets close to supper time here's what happened when senate president brags don't go for the vote in favor of the recommendations of the organization and administration subcommittee of the university council as amended by this body please raise your hands but they are the masses the prison and you know jeans with a view from the hill