An hour with the Woz - Encore

today's keep your presents was originally broadcast on march sixteen two thousand sixteen from the leed center at the university of kansas katie our presents an hour with the wires i'm kate mcintyre and today on k pr presents steve was near the co founder of apple computer was an expert at the university of kansas on november twentieth two thousand fifteen sponsored by the k is school of business this event was moderated by the dean of the k u business school really been a pretty who started out by asking him to talk about its early years were before called simple as an excellent book called genius but i look back on myself but now i'm not ramona genius for people making think i am one out by talking fast and i was i was i was doing an electronic products and i look back they were in elementary school they really a couple of masters degree programs in college i didn't know what i was doing for fun there was no i get with a good job and the money was to be the big thing in life computers in an analog electronic before that even

noticed them they just that was just like fun thing and i looked back wow perfect perfect wars tickets to excel in that so academically smart ways but not in school or resistance or vintage systems in school and you pointed to certain level unlike elementary school and little sweet pointed to a certain level and then presented the way beyond that it's time to sell what's the non apple innovations of your state college students in particular would enjoy the time by time i got to university i had actually taught myself there were no books in bookstores are no computers around their computers in our school and i stumbled into little things by accident and i taught myself on paper with pencil how to design with little logic circuits that i learned in elementary school from know electronics and how electrons float through transitions i deserve thomas often designs on paper building blocks called chips made a computer or every weekend i would close my door i was shy i didn't have friends i was doing it all alone i did know was invaluable

skill i thought and design computers will now be an electrical engineer sunday biblical engineers design computers that is on radios and tvs satellite guidance systems and although all the surfaces high level mathematics and computers down cycle supply design and the second is like any computer in the world in today's coming out of high school and that means all the ibm computers all the computers all the very end of your digital where did your all these companies that made computers i love to give their medals and then design my own versions so that's what i was going to college now in what i acknowledge it was so early in computers it was beyond rocket science introduction to computers was a graduate course introduction to computers are gradual court would be in an engineer and i was allowed to take it and i got an a plus in a continual but that right now for the first time my gosh i didn't write programs and run the modern university computer and i wrote so many programs a couple of tables of numbers that scientists use i was running riding my programs three times a day and each time each programme of seven programs

produce sixty pages similar light of different numbers cut off after sixty pages what would run the computer over time and then i'd like to discover rees agrees about that were piling up i remember going three times a day in my born and the cutting off like remarks last five times over budget i thought you're a class in wanting to get the program i didn't realize the world that in those days the world and the budget for a supercomputer and it was far more than our state tuition at that at one of the most expensive honest admission schools in the country oh my gosh this was scary stuff that scared me that you know how could i ever possibly play that back then they called it that so then also electronics what they like prof thurman in high school has been transferred and they kept records of all kinds of happening like dunham all but that sometimes lost its juice market kitchen and anne what about what things i did was i went down to local radio shack about a high speed trains is

journalism quails were tronic stuff i built a little tiny thing i could hold my hand and when i went to one color tv we had on campus in these days is roll this one colored tv counted warn people don't want to pay to get on the base liberals are gone and the future frontline where the tv on the go good lamberth so then then every once in a while go back to the tv till it went good and for weeks they station the person in a chair that's whose job it was to fix the tv when those that we have chewing controls in those is attuned to control and then i'd make a joke to enable him to win the people that i felt i had a degree in psychology play with little guinea pigs you know i got the one guy was a stand on a chair with the antenna up in the air to make the tv were no the time i can unbundle the tv and one foot off florida chair made it work and they never ever got for that so that was a lot of fun it and then and then when i went to buy a computer class a bunch of those we

under glass and watch it on for tvs the rest of the upper class and that's what's the plaza live an idea to my movie the gemini built into a magic marker pen and i turned it on to just bear with us at the tvs ever closer one was gently down the one that's the means are the general and resting i was all different roots of the old analog electronic datas and the suicide to the streets yesterday i didn't know we had teachers in the class i was because of the tv and turn off or watch as i said was not that transmitter turn it off yes we know so uncertain terms often financed me will see me turn off the moment it hit home all went to the end of the class and we all walked out we'll never know and i waited near the in the class one day and the tv was jammed the worst kids of his books early any start walking towards the door as it walks a broadening the tvs go in and out then when he left the tvs want perfect their egos

to make sure you don't get it a little bit differently and i'd like to rent you have to be creative creativity is thinking of your own you're moving to build a little bit better than the one extra thing that makes it one step further so in the case of the tv jenn my friend somebody else so one more of these stories because you've got to tell us about fungi called sure what that was by ahmad later year year in college after it didn't take a year off to work program to earn money to pay for college myself not hurt my parents and that was the summer i mean steve jobs and read this article found out that there was a little device called a blue box of these weird engineers had come up with it was they found flaws in the phone company or the phone company was a monopoly back and they found out that if you put drones into american phone beep beep beep beep beep if you put the right owns in you could dial free calls anywhere in the world this was shocking is that she was a fiction article i thought oh steve jobs i

ran down the one place we can get to a typical library on the best at the collider as there were multiple by brazil know with typical books and libraries stanford linear celebrate her center was a top physics research place in the world like service now and then i am the smartest people in the world weren't there the smart people the world but locked doors one door open slightly like that always drive in on a sunday and go to the main building to find at least one door unlocked get into their library password won't read journals and magazines about computers discovered a lot of stuff and we found out there's a lot of beep beep beep beep beep that was true so stephen it so i built what i designed a digital was really cool and anne stevens one said we should sell its stars onboard during the dorms and tell people about iran and i and it was and we were always a demo so one of the demos are meant to late night sit down the dorm room and i cited a law called call the pope i called leon word about the pressure to rome inward the vatican and i said this is henry kissinger with richard nixon at the summit meeting and maz now i'd like to speak to the pope

simple thirty in the morning until call back in an hour that they used a little bit of an accent as henry kissinger that the depth of the bishop was the new translator he said he'd just spoken henry kissinger so i was busted i just want to make that confession that i can't even imagine what would've happened if you had gone somewhere so that was that received optimize our first company unocal selling song products over the next five years before apple started but once you're steve jobs would come into town and see my latest little fun project that i built for myself a legal term in the money it was the muslims he had no money he had to find a way to turn the money i just have fun interesting the engineer it into your mind tell us a little bit about hp you talk so much about this you can be one an engineer way before you even went to college engineering this to engineer an interview from the injuries it's based on a lot of mathematics in differential calculus to design circuits

with precision cards i learned that side of the world in the digital unit name or math in fifth grade i was shocked in fifth grade when i discovered that like a digital watch making a program it's just common the steps if you take so it's a different kind of injury totally it's not is i think the mathematical formula type stuff is the heart of the much harder stuff you know and so anyway or were one of them i've had three years ago and have an engineering degree but i can design what they said anything anything i think about the journey and chips and design and i didn't do it for us so i interviewed me they were building the hottest product of the day the hottest markets work on a date called the iphone six s from apple maybe or you know some other products they were building the hewlett packard scientific calculator they didn't think many of these would sell it was like a two thousand dollars slide and slide rules over ten bucks two thousand in today's dollars on this was unbelievable and within five years no worse label companies every engineer every scientists in the world that have

digital numbers to type in and esoteric functions like signs and co sines attendance to ten digit recession unheard of and this and they interviewed me and the hot rock were acquired he has a design engineer i get to design those products yeah i was a great one but i called myself and engineers engineer biggest look backward in those days it only made that lesson here the engineers used infrequency dials and buttons and all the staff the engineers had to look it signals that we were building and recycled metal and engineers engineer because we engineer still packard were building the devices engineers used so now we have a great camaraderie hewlett packard values of the time were credible that the highest level decisionmaking with the lowest level of management and you could communicate with anybody up an infrastructure no problem you didn't have to go through a hierarchical shame and they treat everyone like family when it was a recession instead of firing ten percent of people and put them on the street without a job everybody

reduce their salaries ten percent to one day every two weeks off i just i love so many things that the company began the stock options based nonprofit it was a recession or profits every political party is losing money to protect their division was so profitable the whole company was profitable and they shared it with us as spock say we want you to be colors feel like the owners of the company and by all these values you know you're all part of a big family really struck me deeply hewlett packard we had great camaraderie and that i love designing things engineering when i went home from work i was a time he'll packard when i went home i was such a geek i had no chance of a girlfriend or wife i want the star tribute to year and that's at work on my own designs fun things you know start the first ballot job and people about me and i'm a hollywood baby there were no movies in hotels and hauling wood played by hadley design the digital part of the first hotel movie system and design new pinball games for kids and things like that it needs and i did all the designs for basically i just got a reputation as a liberal women and bubbles are greg echlin

is a nicer word or a product of the product of the product the ones that steve jobs implement downturn in the money i saw a poll the first time oh my gosh a videogame can be smart and be like pinball game and television and what struck me in my head was i had no money and force me into the best decisions sometimes how do you build something for somebody that's almost no money i have a television if the freeze output provides a television to be an output device built upon him with twenty little one dollar chips unbelievably expensive for him that day and steve jobs can council agreed to my board down the atari corporation in los gatos california where i'm probably live now those godless that's where the pet rock was invented and the guy who invented still lives there and netflix's there and with a lot of history soaked steve jobs went on to atari and they thought he'd signed your you look products that we had really decided but he got a job that he's even seat oprah's got a report that the top people anywhere just are talking to an impressive the way would talk so the harvard tariq now when companies are

new you get to go yet they're pretty open and i can go into the car and i'd see all the games that were building on the factory floor it sobered them before they came out your vision that there are some other games like that night i would immediately free pizza pizza parlors are sort of thing yemen that's one was a breakout closer closer to the computer that was really bennett pursued the beauty of distorting the real thing and why even though we did it for the wrong reasons or didn't know why when we get it but i mean there was the un for after that point and there was a job to design break that mean if you play break that we have a paddle ball of bricks bricks away and steve came to me and he said i think people the target was it could design anything he was never engineering is never ever run a program that no software was so he can mean is it that you designed want to fulfill my life is reportedly education and an engineering sauce about doing scenes of there's a hitch have to afford it hardware games were many year project before harvard

is every adult tory party game with black and white tvs hardware no soccer you can write a program in a day for a game like him now oh my gosh i didn't think i could do as the greatest designer in the world my mind bicycle try try to not sleep for four days and nights neither neither i received jobs would both that modern whales as the sleeping sickness as armand system for probably way down and that we deliver working breakout two atari that was quite a project and then i moved from there to from games to terminals offering it to a thing called the arpanet today we have the inner reaches everyone the world back then the first long distance network connected six universities in the united states when i first saw it it was mit in several research institute ucla uc santa barbara utah and i think illinois and like a lot of i had a turtle a teletype expensive machine that cost more than two parties fight that in a motorbike and longmont i could design anything i signed just a few little parts that i could afford and is like television is like a tied to a computer

across the country in the boston and abbas and begin to take back to my tv show that's getting closer closer to a computer in and then see dr damon talley during that one in the money two and then and then he was back up there's a commune in oregon that's what might be the money in four days for that one projects and to buy into the commune annie came back into town and up by then i was at a club called the homegrown computer and i went there every single shot might design abilities el paso for free how you can build your own terminal at all and connect to the arpanet and i thought of these guys are innocent of microprocessors to be computers but those little computers toy is your twenties you couldn't really do a job thousands and thousands of dollars and you could get a barrel we can run a few programs for your business and that there were quantum computers ivory billed as a machine five years before the week's action in a steve jobs of those building a computer my own design because the company i work for guns and ships for free and so as well beyond

that and i think oh my gosh you know i'll just take my little terminal and talked to a faraway computer put the computer right here it's called a microprocessor tripled has the brains and some the right kind of memory chips there are affordable where the memory of that memory to work a computer to everybody else was just the wrong time and we just as we were engineers they were afraid to tackle the record margins are harder but i was i me i would say parts and cost that's mike does a design flaw so simplify everything to the max designed everything with about half as many parts as anyone else and for the reasons that are entirely to do breakout articles steven and mostly they knew that i did it but i but they they were tired of their favorite little hundred and it chips and i designed breakdown and forty five they just do that was my ability so so here was this little computer i go to the club every two weeks demonstrate how secure the club you know people look over my shoulder they saw a formula for a personal computer has that become the apple one that steven johnson notices to get on these out of town and i can't you know what the social revolution was

important are the fact that people are live life differently that somebody could type a message in to their own computer over a modem it could be stored on a big computer and then over now or one hundred people might be able to dial in and see your message in one hour that was big stuff i was scary stuff how much we can communicate and education has barely changed in the gig was going to be important revising all the finances of the companies and became a million dollar computers with their own i was so inspired after design my computer i passed out my designs for free no copyright for anything you guys build your own computer for three hundred dollars with the start this revolution we were talking one revolution in our club and done justin draeger is so funny and ron i probably thought were amenable to hear there and i showed him how i would gamble in the crowd around we saw the crowds that we should start a company we've been a company for five years but we should have some

kind of formal formal name to it a handout which he wanted to sell build a little bored helps people build my computer rebuild for twenty dollars sought for forty for your office or fifty of them will break even and the big deal when a breakeven what will have a company of our own you know with the best friend so that's how we started apple except one hitch i worked for hewlett packard i when i determined i would be an engineer for the rest of my life on your tour i did not one of your target an unmanned didn't want didn't want to like superior that i had better ideas so i was to be an engineer designed products hard words of worked my entire life and i would never lose my job at hp i wouldn't give that up by starting the company and saw so i pitched hp to build this computer build what would cost what would do it didn't lead use in your own walk on a lot of attention but for various safety reasons i turned it down they would build a boring machine for engineers rather than the fun machine the people needed to bring a computer into the home computers work in sterile environments in those days and putin names as they were in businesses and they were in

responsible research and the military nobody ever thought a computer so you'd have to have some fun element to it and that's right when i really contributed the most don't get to that but the journey down through the first of five times and they tried to build a project with all the same part i had used that with a boring engineering project expensive all the wrong decisions for the home so what sorts of deadly journey down i mean i talked to tell you what i said i wanted to do this is a win some lose some i came from this club where we also teach we were just obvious computers work and we want our own we didn't want to be subject to a company that won a million dollar computer and and we had our thinking was that every home in the world that have a computer everybody like us and programmed them and set them up and wire things with soldering irons we were so far off base but even steve jobs i once we got into real company we

rockfish to you it's fascinating that you had this grand vision of what could be it certainly wasn't evolution believe it would be important to believe that would be important we didn't really know the real reasons why like when it turns out that this apple one computer every computer before the apple watch had big from pails like to see little switches the lights on and to see them in movies every computer look this is not what we call a computer today every computer since the apple one computer i demonstrated at the whole pre computer club and everyone looked over my shoulder sore the formula every computer says that had a keyboard and a video display and that was the of the effective solution that made it affordable but we actually before we ever shot the sample one computers abroad we knew it was a dead end project we were so on in many ways steve jobs oh and he was a great salesman but we have yet to demonstrate american stew was the one i designed from the ground up as a computer embedded modifying existing products and it had such a beautiful things because you had to attract people in the home wi

fi and i believe if i'm going with productivity everywhere and they had game a game you have to be the attraction yeah but it was the first time ever nobody expected color to figure out a way to give color for one dollar and seventy thousand dollars you old analog way thousand dollars if enough new digital way that was so weird out of any engineering book ever was one dollar switch color was part of it but the more important part was probably that games can be software you could write a simple program into simple language and nine year old one base and write a program that says recall ingles reports one of her twins to report schriever push forward and make things and color move onscreen that you see anybody programmer against them change the world ends of the software and so on that that was an unbelievable attraction we knew we had a hit product and other sustainable long way if we only i do not want to build of maine is a good time to brush a customer of the past and that i said that i think it's an interesting point where to talk about having the money to build the project can you tell us a little bit

about michael michael i want to mention that we usually hears the wise enough steve jobs what we do we have a computer now that we could sell a thousand of we were borrowing money we build about ten days but lawyers involved and we would sell it to free cash to the stores so that's how we can operate it for after you're going as adults we could sell thousand how to get the money to build a thousand tiny get two hundred and fifty thousand dollars was our question that's like it get two million dollars today maybe and steve jobs as a businessman so he was out pursuing every company is try to talk the people in the minor product or actually very little money as it turns out and just given us some stock in control of it which doesn't turn nouns venture capital firms down as we were in our young twenties we had notices experience we could talk business language you know running adventure gap was gone valentine asked me but what i think what the markets or as emily how do you not familiar say well a

million units as well as a million ham radio operators and this is bigger than hammering a recent sixth grade that's a good answer to get a feat that answer it would be right it's not just as far so he was on to this angel mike mark a lot like mark a lot decided that this was going to be the next big shui home computers may be the next big markets comes but once once every ten years we didn't roll company to a billion dollars and five years as a billion dollars went back a long time ago so it's a big deal is talking i thought well the more successful you better life the bigger number you're allowed to talk or steve jobs i want our young twenties we had no basis for it so we have no savings accounts in banks we had no money at all so mike marco invested the money he owns much dr steven my sleeves legal partner and he directed this here is how you set up a technology company for the top position to acquire hear what you look for in the roots of their daily responsibilities and here's

what you pay them and you have to have an agency that represents due in your images accompanying measure advertisements or as the perfect freshly brought all that in a drug we will be a market driven company market is what makes it a great understanding the customer their needs the valuable products and all that and mike moore who are investor ram marketing and events became ceo of apple he was very instrumental he's really the one who made the company just didn't i didn't know any of the stuff and it is principals are marking what steve were very quickly steve as a good light touch on other people steve's role in the company wants their apple was interface with everybody running the business to in the high end business stuff and learn how they do their jobs and we're not run every department company and see just want to make sure he's on top of the founder of the company is a very important personality change you personally settles in your early twenty years in twenty years old he was going to be so the tigers is talk only forget all the calling the pope stories of all that in a way that probably got backed up by the end of his life and it really have those memories strong you know the good times

so so i was sort of in my role i was china's i don't wanna talk to president while i'm an engineer on the engineer the greatest danger and the other engineers to look at my designs and saying well consider that and so we published all the designs in the software are marking department did know yet about trying to be close everything was open here's how you can build your own little attachments for computers i can write your software we published everything openly acknowledge that was happened to the puritans debbie apple's only successful product and revenues i mean profits for the first ten years of that one product was at that we really need to sort of be that way you know so can you put into perspective we've been talking about aig the apple one apple to compare to that i watched the iphone that we have today well for the vw could you can try big programs that letter by letter in the program and i would run it would protect the adults who was call me the program things move in on a street that that that we still have today we've improved quality so the quality goes up with like the resolution

of a camera gets better you have higher quality according to computers the amount of electronic miracle transistors that we have in today's products or a billion times greater than what was when i was in high school i mean back then you could make that i could make the trip with what's a ten transistors and it cost the same as a job today cause with ten billion transistors and transistors are electronic neurons into thinking these products director so much more sophisticated and a lot of that intelligence goes into graphics in this plane things on screen along the way is that you know it doesn't mean it worked faster for you but it sure does do a much better presentation job than ever before and the internet is a different facts i'm not talking about the internet just as a computer along when it today it would spoil wasn't a religious police are apple we thought oh we're going to do in their homes with computers and with zero don't do them any word processing or two thousand dollar typewriter or maybe i will do storing their recipes for the kitchen in two thousand or recipe while and maybe they'll do

checkbook balancing and reconciling and i just think it's a little bit it's that with quicken but i'm pretty much our ideas of that and what computers did it would go nowhere but the rest of the world to write programs and think of ideas and develop music cards it turned into music an adventure that tests that the spreadsheet program with the first killer to change the world especially in those days if you are a manager in a business he wanted some forms to make decisions on you'd send in a report on a form to the computer department they would run and they sell their numbers of information sales of inventory that's a new report that says not right one and this way you get back to days of days ago a report now you could sit down at the numbers in your own little computer in uncommon expenses january february march all the way to december that the change in general is we see what the result would be you could forecast your business small businessman walk into computer stores like to say our sales shot up ten

times work it's successful company going public now like facebook google all those things that was when we really really made and he was based on a killer at one a one important applications at a computer alone is not the solution computer was a program that doesn't drop you need that's what people really want what is there something out there right now that you think our plants are the next to kill iraqis as he was out there that we need to know about i like to tell people is we go through the school procedures maybe write a form of race of money for it has its good and will hire some engineers maybe they're in india we don't care we find them i always try to have engineers involved in security or start because engineers but not just engineers and academic ones that actually build things on their own internal idea into a real demonstration real working model it's finals can advise enabled them to still think the things you never thought of as a business major say so always try to have both elements

are important to an end marketing is very important to one's marketing understanding the market out there the people are buying i say that's not good but that's just average and normal and everyone talks that way you need somebody who is the market who wants a product for themselves overseen all of its features what steve jobs everyone that the good thing about it would be better and it all the details if they just write you one mass protest automobile be designed to whatever is on a big current was a leopard for his own family his own needs where you live in california determined the first super charger stations the others who was just work the machine i want it i developed recovered torino i can write is a program that's what you're talking about which is that you need for yourself which means you had both the expertise and the fine elements that reminds me this is not a business card that you use that you get in a sense of the sources of this has been sort of a percent i mean that's

that's a way to talk about this exotic this generation sri much of my metal discards but after nine eleven i like to play with systems which limits up to a point of not really begin in jail but after nine eleven after nine eleven i go on airplanes in evansville plastic knives that wouldn't cut state very well and so i yeah so i mean these metal business cards and i go i'm your parents talk to stuart is ok if it a flight attendant's it okay if i cut my steak with my business card i think i was some kind of not with a paper card and you know and i tried it with the members of our concerts so nicest places that they do so smoothly and work and that the sources sometimes the lines are metal business partner once it had a sort of a knife so i guess i am talking about things that i'm pushing up to the ads you've got to tell us the two dollar bill story i like that i like to do

a lot of things i like whatever you like is productivity and we're trying to have elements of fun pranks points are critical because you make them out of nothing to make them out of ideas and out just like how can any idea turned into something real but the two dollar bill perhaps a long histories of it are bills and put a mincer remember order and does have checkbooks of them and do unusual things but now without a printer in my hometown was still one of the printer he makes patents for me like pads of paper with every sheik is forty dollar bill roper phrase you just turn off like green stamps he gets the supplies from a higher quality where they meet the specs of the us government by law that makes them legal tender finney dispatcher us government they are legal tender by last august that in them for twenty some years and i still here for two dollar bills everywhere gospel heat for five dollars you're thinking whoa that's a but weren't passed me a box that's true and the secret service approved them three times secret service is in charge of that money to the time signatures actually saw the bills and one time they read me my

miranda rights if this is true and you know what it's not just about that so that when they asked for it instead of giving them my driver's license to getting a fake id ideas for every airplane flight for five years it said it looked like the part where defense but to be safe for a change department defined seconds it was a joke target that was a day when you could get a proper solvent photo ids but i have a super expensive by some commission printer psychic for backstage passes and things other stories are i mean the card from my agent said lasers safety officer with an eye patch in the photo and the secret service they like to fight i see yes know thousands of today what advice would you have ok i know you can't sell denies that like abusers are under us about the sort of like you go to maybe academic

subject to studies that he said you know what the answers is try to think beyond that is there something different medical for homework salt solve a problem writing program and go back and think i could've done this better than other people would talk with some very clever and look at this from a different angle that you try over and over and over your mind starts come up with a method to build a little tricks that shrinks things make them smaller simpler more direct faster solve a problem but we're about the cases that don't matter but only the ones that do and you can develop that and that this turns into the greatest source of creativity innovation you'll be better than other people maybe the best in the world you try to think of these are way it could be the best in the world at this problem is mostly your life is regulated in any gospel twenty university and you got a whole bunch of classes and you might finish homework and one of the other not so much reading them there's only limited amount of time that way you pursue your dreams of a third year college history according to depend on the direction you want as in berkeley and i was only taking advanced courses mom graduate

courses in hardware and software design and that made the dean's list force and i loved it but what i would do is buy the books as soon as i could in the bookstore i loved being in college because even my first are called i can have a have a job on the side for a few minutes for classes abuzz needed taking and learned more and more about computers so i got the book for my classes and then over the weekend i would hardly sleep and i go through every single chapter answered every single question the end of a chapter and i'd be halfway through the foiled by the time plastered on monday why well i didn't just love computers and technology have been michael white so i wasn't limited to drama schools when you understand how far and how fast you could go i get it on the floor and sixth grade in the singular stuff actually an easily but the privilege of everything else expected to do in life a promise education system i guess we are trying to put its money on twenty to

thirty kids what you do when you want to just wanted to give him and everybody can be treated individually they have their own teacher and yet the person with the disruptor in our organization try to challenge people and say don't be content with the status quo and hard to talk about as the cheapest option office of an organization a little bit mistaken there a disruption tends to mean a company comes out with a different approach to doing something in life that disrupts a lot of other countries do it the normal way and they keep they got their money machine that cranks or will be doing things that normal weight company culture but they don't say we should shift and because it's so different than what we do know even your packard had that problem when i worked there we got places local language of computers scientists knew called reversible which location the reason real reason spoke that language is we couldn't afford the church that would let you write arithmetic expressions in normal human waste so when texas was three days later three years later can on the computer the debt that we laughter it's a toy that's the way kids are taught to do in school and i thought i was the

brightest engineer of the bachelet said i will try our big the big statistic from politics forever to calculate i will try and with a few grazing and santa fe which partisan first half with some parentheses in the back up my prince i really know human beings to remember six levels apprentices what level of my other work my way in anonymous equation it is impossible so that occurred lamont would be the importance that water can overrule his catholic from texas and it has to be able to solve those big equations they wouldn't put it out and i think would do it what's the method with the method whereby he had better forget that i know things forget that ideas are you a pack about where an organized wave into my kid just type it in from left to right every criticism in which an architect is fast cycle it was delayed it did it wrong in the first trial is texas estimates that whether i got the right answer and five a great engineers around couldn't believe it and i had a top in each one of them told them tightly in from left to right everything you eat not one of the five could do it they just kept

thinking i have to use my skills the software so when we come up with products to make life easier and you don't have to do as much thinking people often ignore and the company culture norton says no no we've got something very sophisticated and they miss a lot of the terms of like the act that way so that's what destruction occurs i'm my ideas in his company should have just a chief disruptor officer who wants to aid and they should have a little apartment all priests very independently of the ceo perry and some companies like united airlines have a disruption apartment if there's a snowfall think and react so quickly and don't need to rely on the hierarchy in the bureaucracy in the time it takes to make some quick decisions and but that's a short term disruption and talk about long term disruption of your entire business that should be a department thats always looking forward to how life changed with some other directions the products might take or that are being taken by other companies and how can we best to be prepared to counter very important thing she's disruption officer is different

than a chief innovation or achievement chief innovation officer and i'm also looking at ways that maybe a lot of brainstorming were things that the world could do a different way that might disrupt other businesses like ours i think it's a great way to try to figure out how can we become obsolete because you know bankruptcy i think the burden avoided when i think of recent times you know nokia or blackberry in our weather purposes wasn't impacted by the iphone at first and years and years you could see stables huge amount of business but it also the trends compliment and killed her yet the knee in a curve and some happens unless that happens for a long time and all of a sudden it all happens is a workhorse it was going to happen in two to talk about if i mean as the making everything simple and don that i'm sure i was not pay attention particular attention to this with the earnings we're not happiness after school early college in this is one month working on my helmet hit on the formula for how i want to

be a life and what's important and what may be religious values in outsourcing but i'm clean i'm going through that i thought if i was a really accomplished this business as a directing these mergers of all that what i'd be as happy as if i just smiled every day and felt the happiness and joy knowing job enjoy comedy so the guy said happiness is important thing and white yes this is going to sabine successful could be what makes you happy i don't that the migrants not just one type of person but for me i want to be a humor was going to be very important in my life and for my came up with was ag s minus f happiness equals smiles minus frowns sounds too simple it's ok smiled pursue always build a lot of fun and what you do making jokes is a sense of creativity to try to think of things that are different than what people think they're hearing it's it's very similar to creativity in designing products are making great music do music and frowns

how to minimize frowns i said don't worry about them so much and if something goes wrong you just deal with that constructively and progressively if your car gets trapped sikorsky scratch and you wind up not frowning as much as most people and they don't have large enough to win an argument is you have wanted they want what's different you both good so don't don't want everybody in the good thinking differently you just have to convince yourself that you're writing your own beliefs and that got to minimize them a lot of friends in my life it's sort of like you don't hear philosophy in some ways and the only thing that really gets me frowning these days whenever i'm using technology and i do it right human thing it doesn't work you know and then they sometimes tell me i'm the ones tom i didn't know there were some pretty little thing so that was my first formal for happiness i like the formula for happiness and anticipate what will quote of yours haven't seen the money out and i wanted to meet you before

i go see the new steve jobs movie that you talk about a couple of things not being pioneering to talk about that sure where my second formula for happiness who left and then to iraq to go back to you did you major berkeley to earn my college degree and my name was very famous or used a fake name by berkeley diplomas says rocky raccoon clark i guess that's the end and at rock concerts and steve jobs to me one place that you know you're not that you're not a music producer your computers computers you know what i think when it came to the big part of like to work so i can fight for where the h nichols f cubed happiness eagles three guests and food found in france and forties the necessities a like everything that they have yet to be happy you have clothing to be happy if i was fine and friends are people when i've been inducted my high school hall of fame i gave that form what distance they started laughing at him personally say well there might be a force

that's like family so loud and yours was with those two going to ask you about i guess what this quote many times and reviews it's a line about what you talk about trade offs in life a couple of things not having to necessarily be fine yeah well for one thing gettler that's because largely steve jobs is such an important person in the world is really was the driving force of the technology we have today although by accident because he was horribly miss couldn't execute dinners and computers into what would take you prices were unveiled you really understand from a position again is this kind of thing from our up until computers on

so well and place in the world so well but i thought massive just like he was and you'll see there's a new movie out and he has one massive pardon that we're wasting johnson's work he refused to recognize a child was obviously his i mean some of us knew all the people involved but that's only one incident there about a hundred instances where he does things that no human you know could ever do and is likely to be a great important person i don't even mean but the so the person you would call from the earlier with kids to be like and and so in the movie i said well i don't think we could have all the great products we got from apple all the direction could have even more and better and stephen to spend totally nice and wonderful to the world and giving them sharing his legacy would be a lot better was rather than she can be nice and different i love that it could be good and i like to think of our department way that we have people who are incredibly smart an incredibly nice co

founder of apple computer speaking with neeley been a pretty dean of the k u school of business i'm j mcintyre you're listening to k pr presents on kansas public radio white's neck actually made two appearances at katie's lead center on november twentieth two thousand fifteen we've just heard the first later that same day was mia gave a second time this time accompanied by his wife janet who grew up in kansas fairly fairly faithful university the university of kansas is like that when i went to california i love my company car here in kansas i figured i'll just buy one of california's but i had met him and he let alone the cards have insisted upon the driving thing when they california is a little different than they do in kansas so one day i kind of wanted her current one was just she does so the first time i did i bought those are called love that i was coming crying because i was like i read

your car it said it ok and i said yeah that is out there of the car as i can okay and then two weeks later she people sought genocide slightly and my car was pretty dane doubt them and i called him again i was crying again and he said oh yeah ok and i sing the allegany goes communism europe by car my life in a few weeks they'd see you and then just recently about a week cr isn't a really bad rap or girl ran a red light hands total that are saying as i was then and i was getting hauled off an air ambulance within that presented on an abiding boards and i was thinking he's got to get on a plane in about an hour and so easy to tell them because the car's driven a viable and i'd been a bad wreck and they could see my car it was totally total say that i've got to somehow get a message to you know that i'm ok so that when we have news i saw the amulets yeah go get a tesla hasn't yet embraced desert ok what's yours is

a nice it's a devious idea last is unclear about what he sees it or was he actually has like the founder apple i know yeah he was like i think that they will never say to him i said what's your favorite car i think it's a tassel a i share of searches i just told her mercedes it's a very common scenario play that he's a surprise he really does you know that went on a mercedes doesn't tell you were ok and that's the girl that he was so however that case weird situation you think a drunk ran a red light this grow a broken up with a girlfriend at the high school for high school when she drove off in a hurry and she was crying so much like an hour janet we talk about how it you know you had professors actually inspired you would you like to talk about i know

you know what you want them a lot to talk about for both oh very sorry that you're working on my degrees but it didn't job is i just that was a job teaching job in a jazz band divorced as to like at the bottom of my life and i got an interview with ron austerity and i remember the interview he buys in limerick who's a regular ferraro during that interview because he brought me any semiautomatic at apple two it said ok i will leave it here for about half their do whatever you can do i'll come back and check and see if you know you're doing on a computer and i was like how did so he let me alone thrive as a half hour for five minutes i wrote a program that did some stuff and he hired me so it's really you know everything somebody that looks excessive now side they've never had a difficult day in the life but everybody as difficult days it as what you choose to do it is difficult days you know when you find yourself in a hole stop digging and you know just try to you know and so i think the

one thing about the crosses here he hired me when basically i just been let go from a job and i just i lost my husband to divorce and you know those things they help you decide you know when you just in la around and think my life has room for a slide for me to get up and fight an attack person that like when i get a challenge i will meet that challenge and i will meet it head on it at just one more example that a lot of popular professor when i was about five years old as walk along the beach in california my family was on a vacation a wave came up took me out to sea mammals drown and after that my family became very interested in all this taking swimming lessons and from that they are lighted lots and lots of swimming lessons and i eventually came of lifeguard lani that she became a person i was at is director who teaches lifeguards so again like you know i could drown but you can also cut almost overcompensate but what's funny is to this day were on vacation although

informal season kid trying to learn how to swim and i have to go over it expected house went on a vacation that has you know it's but it's also because that's right you know wanting to seat so they were seen somebody that struggle sudden you've struggled with and you want to help solve the problem by sadat's western iran arson larceny we've been good friends since the day he hired me and i didn't have my most important advice from ross apple had offered me a job and california it was on the third year i finally accepted it officially outlawed image of california it didn't tell anybody has a lot of california it i was flying out there once a month so you were and i was like to fly home my family's here and i think the second year titled so my friends about the third year i told my parents i thought wow this is really a safety net there's i don't know where my dad saying you know who knows what might happen well my life i would've met this guy if i would've gone to california united really good advice from really good people fifteen twenty years later still from it professor and

he was kind of the final straw that got me to take this job and california and you know you never know you know when you're going down the road or you're going down a path and you never know what one decision container change our whole entire life and for the better or for the worse but it was unlikely source for that and the other professor levitt talk a little bit about was my favorite biology professor here and that's chip taylor and the cells like crazy but his office is buildings are not overgrown the west campus and he used to take years says that yale grad students i remember my first class and then i took the class because i read the description and i i love that i thought looked like a really interesting class i walked into class the first day they were a phd students and i said are you knew and phd program as an unnecessary steve mason we do in this class this is the worst last week wasn't good enough for seven years we have to take this class you're taking this class as an elective as like you know a

really interesting to me so i thought i'd take it and we're going to tailor taught me so much about learning about science about thinking i know one day we were over the west campus and he said it's all around his building and told us where to sit out in the field in nature for an hour with a piece of paper penciled today would be a computer but peter paper penciled it we had to write down every single file they came out of our mind without filtering it so you're the human body will automatically filter service am i to write that down that's a dumb idea and what his point was right that every single idea because then you can see what's with the best ideas are what the worst ideas aren't just brainstorming a couple things that you hadn't thought of and you know after about an hour of writing down everything you start out of the nature we start to run out of things but that's when you really probably come up with your greatest idea and that's when you really think it's that was a skill that i took a lot with me and apple at one of the projects i worked on was in newark public schools and i'd worked on projects in nebraska that were

you know to mate on projects one year to schools is a hundred million dollar project and we were on the five hour flight back and forth between the archive go out once once a month for a week and you had five arizona fly to think about you know what's different that in this newark public schools system then is different than you know self junior high in lawrence kansas or different than you know any of the other hundreds of schools i been in say you think about that and then you can come up with solutions that you know it would just kind of free your mind to come up with ideas when janet mentioned the ocean i thought well you have ocean syrian kansas but jack i play a lot of games puzzle games were games mathematics and it's in our backgrounds our own education it's a lot of fun it's easy to do when we got a hotel room would judge the quality of the room by the number on the door doesn't make an interesting pattern is a prime number that sort of thing but again when we think of the names of places and it was my turn i had been in place to start with s it ever want and you saw images of reporters this report were freeport kansas says write or wiggle

wiggle that we found out it's the smallest incorporated city in america i say there is no other citizen reports reading you talking about you're always looking at these logic and patterns that that's the answer from janitors well so what can you tell us what led to apple one let the apple one was my entire desire in my life thinking i could be more productive and get more things done very well so if i own my own computer if i told my father in high school we have any computers around nobody ever heard of them that were farther off than rocket science and their own my own computers and it is at a cost as much as a house a similar live in apartments when i am and i was i worked at a company hewlett packard and i was designing the hottest proper time and we shared a computer among forty engineers we would sign of the times what's write programs it was part of my job and then when i created my own computers i finally saw the form of formula to doing it at a reasonable cost of a computer

that could do useful things not just be called a computer but really useful things have brought in i would run my own programs man i was a star yeah so so i'm steve jobs after it helped distribute it felt it not because i as an engineer one a computer that was the only reason i was driven and motivated by professors from stanford berkeley meeting in a club we had multiple rib computer club that stanford linear accelerator center for two weeks and they were talking about how once we had these computers you could type messages into the computers of other people could read it you could share things like nothing before if for sudden your group we're march route changed you could notify everybody you know we had no way to do it like pencil paper of phones and protocol everyone wow that's exciting an education summit dr richard warner professor sanford said said you know what once we have these computers a student will do the homework and be told right away if it's right or wrong rather than waiting till the next day to find out my example is running up the next day

right an immediacy of reward and punishment is is very important and latency they're so this professor said that now students at using ten percent of their brain or aunts we're going to use a hundred percent totally differently our minority seven mike share you know young twenty year old been so scared of thinking oh why can't these young kids are going to put me out of business a few years i'm not that my brain is everyone's anything but all these great motivation says social implications of how james like a little deeper no computer like me i was going to go into a huge corporation with a million dollar computer city is in their computer is going to take the financial numbers into my own computer program written by a nine year old friend i would turn out all the strategies for the company that the more important than the sea of hope that i wanted the liturgy to new computers to be important that steve was nyack his wife janet andean neely band a pretty i think a school of business i'm kate mcintyre k pr

presents is a production of kansas public radio at the university of kansas