KGOU Sports; Snorter Luster Interview

It was locked for a second in between us, here at CIFT, all right, sounds? Right. Now, were you born in Paul's Valley? No. No, I was born out of the country. I was born in the Indian Territory. My granddad says the same thing, and I really was. With a talclaw? A talclaw in the Indian Territory. Yes? And then how did you wind up in this part of the state? My dad moved, and naturally I moved with him. We moved to Paul's Valley in 19 and eight, and to Chickasha in 19 and 12. I went to school in high school in Chickasha, great school in Paul's Valley. That's where this is for. Here we go. Paul's Valley, then you went to Chickasha and to box and Chickasha, didn't you? I boxed in Chickasha, yes.

Mostly preliminary bouts. It's three, four, six rounders. You see, we had no golden gloves in those days. You were professional, and you worked your way up by fighting semi-wind-up, three round preliminaries. And then, of course, I had a man go with a young man named Mutmikki from Oklahoma City, and he was one of the main reasons that I came to college. I chased him for ten rounds and never have caught him yet. That fight convinced me that my future didn't lie in boxing. So I came to Oklahoma, University in 1960, and to take love. And you didn't stay with it actually when you got out of school.

You came here to Oklahoma weighing 135 pounds, and you went out for football. Why? When I first came here, I was a poor boy. In fact, I was a poor, that I wore three pair of breeches and certain parts of my anatomy still showed. I had no idea of going out for football because there were no scholarships. You weren't recruited, you weren't even solicited. No one knew that I was coming. No one asked me to come. I went down and got a job at one of the sorority houses. Kitchen bowling. And then I went out to watch the Vorstik practice one day. Playing against the fence there and wearing that stupid little red cap was one of the biggest fellows I'd ever seen. And that cap really looked like something on top of his head.

Anyhow, we stood there and watched and played. He turned to me. Both of us were first in the course. He turned to me and said, you're going out for football? I said, well, I don't think so. I have a job down in one of these places. I'm just not able to go out. Besides, I said, they look pretty tough out there to me. And he said, they don't look too tough to me. Well, naturally, they wouldn't to him. He went close to 200,000. I went 135. But you know that big guy taught me into going out for football. I never went back to my job. I got a job teaching a gym class and teaching the boxing class, which helped really differentiate my experiences. I think I got $20 a month or so. Which in those days was sufficient.

And then Benny Owen came to me after I'd been going out for some time. I said, I understand you have fought a cut. I don't want that. Benny Owen said to me, you're going to have to give up your job because if they find out you're teaching these classes, you'd be classed as a professional. Now, what Benny didn't know that I was professional for I ever came to my home. Yeah. Right. I didn't receive money for fighting. So you went out for football. What was Benny on? Benny Owen was a man who evidently felt no pain.

I have never seen anyone like that. I don't think he ever realized that any of us were hurt. In fact, if you were warm, you stayed in the game. And of course, we had no petun system in those days. We had to go both ways. But Benny was fair. He treated all of us alike. He carried a paddle. And when he didn't like something you did, why he made it known by a couple of wraps with a paddle. He was fair.

He was inventive. He was the first man to use the direct pass from center. He developed the forward pass into a potent weapon, although Rockney and Gus Durray get credit for it. But Benny Owen used the forward pass many years before Durray and Rockney. He wasn't much for fundamentals. In fact, Benny coached everything. He coached football, baseball, basketball, I don't believe he coached track. No, he didn't coach track. But he coached all the sports of the exception track. He was in his own way. He was a genius. I admired him very much and learned a great deal from him. Was he quiet enough to think about your coach? Well, I used the same formation for many years

that we had used here at the university. As I said before, he taught me to treat him fairly and treat him all alike. No distinction. Okay, here at the University of Oklahoma, in 1966, through the time you were here, what was it like? Where did you play football? I have the big stadium up here now. You know, we certainly didn't. We played on Boyd Field and practiced on the same field. We played on it. We played in the same suits that we practiced on. We carried our clothes and stuff in the pants, carried them on our back like an Arkansas peddler. That was what it was like in 1916. Sometimes screaming one side of the line against the other. No scholarships.

Everyone taking care of his own finances and paying his own way. Sometimes we even screamed before the game on Saturday. Sometimes I thought it was sort of a survival defeat. It's kind of stepped on the dead and hurriedly wounded type of football that we went through. But we were tough. And if you made it, if you stayed out, fine. If you didn't, you just were dropped by the way. That was the kind of football. Boyd Field is located where the old field house and engineering building are now. And it stands to you. Probably seated. Seven right thousand people. Were they full?

When we won, they were full. When we lost, we could get a seat. We left. We'll go on. We had the SATC here at the Student Army Training Corps. Everyone was able-bodied was supposed to join. And the football team joined. I memorized an eye chart to get in the Army. That's what I thought was kind of stupid. Because I was afraid I might not be able to get out of the Army the same way. But anyhow, in 1980, and I was sent to Camp Taylor, which was Camp Taylor and early, they'll contact in artillery officers training corps. The war was over before I received a commission.

And I came back to University to finish my career. And in 1920, Captain of the team, the team that was champion in the 1920s was Larry Valley. 6-0 and 1. Tell us just a little bit about that season. You had the one tie undefeated. And it was really the first championship team in Oklahoma. It was the first championship team in the Missouri Valley. We were the newest member of the Missouri Valley. And we wanted our first year. We had a big, versatile football team. We experienced mature, good men and seniors.

We tied Kansas Aggies, or they tied us, which they were the... I don't know where they'd even won a game. We hadn't lost any. But that's football. We went out there, and we... Well, we didn't play up to par, of course, right, and for sure we didn't won the game. But they tied us, and that was the only... that I mentioned on our record. We were able to dispose of all the other teams. And we... What formation did you run out of? Single wing and punt formation. We did most of our throwing from punt formation. We had two very brilliant passers in... boy named Skyvy Davis, a local boy, a Norman boy,

and a young man named Phil White. Phil was... well over six feet tall, and could throw and kick and run. He didn't run around him. He ran over. Skyvy was very versatile, a splendid kicker, better than average passer. And we had Saul Schwadek, probably, as good a throwback as Oklahoma might ever had, working on the city. Dutch Hill from Chick-a-Shea, who was considered, and has been considered one of the best running backs over my head. And a big line, always like my friend, Earl Deacon, with whom I roamed.

Super smooth, who was all American, Bill McKinley, Dow Ham, all big and rugged. Then he had four ends. He had Tarsmars, Ja Pasko, who were by four of the best receivers, and he had Miren, Tab Tyler, and myself. But more of that specialized in defense, I was open to Tab. It was a very good receiver himself. I was always too short. I did my best work on the defense. My boxing ability, and it taught me a great many things about how to take care of myself. And I became a very good defensive fan, but I lacked height, and I never did shot a great deal on the offense. You also observed quarterback.

How did you wind up in quarterback? I played quarterback, the championship high school. I had 40, I had been near sighted on my life, and catching punts became a kind of a hazard, especially on a dark day. And beside, I never really liked to play quarterback. I liked to defense much better. And they had others who were superior, and I thought I had a better chance at end. After sitting on the bench for two years at quarterback, I decided I'd record the end. Be a regular. What would video and have done if you had found out about you? That's it. It kicked me off the team.

I believe he would have kicked me off the team. Here's a sticker for the roof. He played you strictly by the roof. He knew how to lose, and how to win. Yes, I undoubtedly. He would have kicked me off the team. I don't think it's an end. It was the natural rhyme we were with. And now we've got tanks and this goes on, and we're back at the end. I'd say Missouri, Kansas, or Manhattan. Oh, yes. They hadn't beaten us. They had never won until 1917. That was the first year that they ever defeated in the first year. Was football emphasized that much? Were you known around campus because you were football player?

Did it mean that much? Yes, I believe it. I believe it did among the student body, and I among the professors didn't make you any more popular. I'm sure that the students rather looked up to the athletes. Because in those days, you see the athletes mingle. They weren't segregated. You were just one of the boys. You participated in the things that the other students did. You've gone to the different societies. But you know, it was nice, but different to segregate their athletes, which may or may not be a good idea. What kind of facilities were there in those days? You may be more popular.

As far as all sports was concerned, what was it like, the athletic department? The athletic department was run by the student, the student treasure, which is far come down from what we have now. Money was scarce. Times were hard. Crabbs were small. Equipment was poor. That was a sort of thing, which is entirely different from what it is today. We were lucky if we got a new pair of shoes when we were seniors. And the freshmen. They're equipped with something else. If you were to pick out one incident,

one game from the days when you were a player here and over you, it stands out in your mind. It has to be the Drake game, which stands out because it was one of the funny incidents of the four years I played. We played Drake the last of the season of 1920, but tomorrow. We had to play where a back would hop up on the line, and I would hop back, which made the tackle eligible for a pass. In this particular game, we had a big tackle named Paul Johnson. A really very fine receiver today you'd be playing in.

I hopped back, Paul caught two passes for touchdowns. I got credit for both touchdowns and the Drake coach put me on the old Missouri Valley Team. That incident stands out I think more than anything is. You know, he put me on the old Missouri Valley Team and I thought afterwards. Here's his never-sided desire watch. You're still a student. Were you a student assistant or how did you get into that? In those days, we didn't have screen practice. The last year of our eligibility, Earl Deakin himself, Johnson Doll, from a few others. For one of something better to do,

we decided we'd start a wrestling team. I got a book written by Frank Godsch, who was the world's heavyweight champion wrestler in those days, right up on a few holds. We solicited a few members from the student body, picked up a boy here in the hand there, and started working out for wrestling on our own. I sustained an injury to my elbow and immediately I became the coach. We didn't have all the weights. We weren't ready for our competition really, but we decided we'd challenge A&M. So we went up and wrestled A&M, much to our regret. Then we had a return match down here. We didn't win, but we had fun. Then the next year,

Benny had hired to go over Jacobson from Iowa to help him in football coach the line. So Jacobson was to take over wrestling. But Jacobson didn't take over wrestling. He had me take it over, and although he was considered to wrestling, I coached the wrestling team the second year, which was my senior year in the Los Angeles. In that year, we did much better. I forget how many matches we won and lost, but I know we did have a better record than the first year. So he coached wrestling, then he didn't want it. Then I decided

that I might coach football a year in order to pay my debts. We all had to encourage certain obligations during our academic years. Also, any lawyer needed a few books. I thought I'd coached one year to accumulate enough to buy a few little books, maybe start in an office. And so I got a job coaching at Bixby High School. Bixby is a little town south of Tulsa, a little away of town in those days. And I received a Magnificent Somers, $1,500 to coach. And while there,

I was in an automobile accident and lost the sight of one of my eyes. We had very good luck at Bixby. We were able to beat Tulsa's high school. And in those days, there was only one high school in Tulsa. We were also able to defeat Muscogee High School. And those two victories, and the subsequent ones that Bixby decided me that I wanted to be a football coach. I thought that was might be better than being a one-eyed lawyer. So then you went on and you coached Bixby. You coached at Norman High School. And you were very successful at Norman High School. I imagine a lot of people don't know that. We had some very fine teams here at Norman.

We had the 19 and 24 team, which was all victorious. The incident of that, the only old victorious team they've had in the last or since 1924. And several other undefeated teams. In the nine years, I was at Norman. I think we had four undefeated teams, one old victorious team. And if you leave out that pesky Amarillo, we did even better than that. You can go through the New York Times, isn't it? I got a coach at quarterback. I went to Columbia University in 1940. And I had decided to get out of football course and because my health was kind of bad. So I thought I would get into another field, maybe administrative work. And I went to Columbia.

I had known Steve Owen, coach of the Giants. I played at Philadelphia University. So I coached the quarterbacks. In those days, they didn't call signals from the sidelines. The quarterback called his own signals. And I coached the quarterbacks of the Giants. In 1940. The conclusion quarterback. The boy named Tuffy Lemons. Tuffy was the blocking back and called the quarterback. Yes, I remember. We had some good players on the Giants. And of course the bears on the house were running while they were. They just come out with a key formation,

which incidental is the oldest formation in football. But it had been somewhere fine when it was made in it. And the house came out with it with its Chicago bears. And he had perhaps one of the greatest aggregations of football talent that I'd ever seen up to that time. So after the various coaching students, did you go to the New York Times? This job became, this head coaching job, your Oklahoma became open. So I was only there one year, 1940. I was in New York. And I was in New York. I was in New York. I was in New York. And I had a phone call. Though I had no boarder,

present the boarder raises, asking me if I would consider coming to Oklahoma. This head football coach. And after some deliberation, it's a very, very familiar peculiar thing. It won't always want the coach there on my mother. Frankly, I think it's the worst place in the world. You could coach. But we have a desire to come back to our old school. And so I did. I came back in 1941 with a new president, Joe Brandt. I was the football during the 30s, 5th generation, I was top student, and I was the best student in the world. Biff Jones came here, succeeding in hard age and role. He'd been coached at LSU.

He was a major in the United States Army. But he'd had a falling out with the governor of Louisiana here at home. I think he wanted to make a few talks to the boys different half or something and anyhow. Jones came to Oklahoma and started a rebuilding program. He introduced the touchdown club idea. In Oklahoma City and several other renovations. Jones was a tremendous organizer. And then after a couple of years he went to Nebraska and told him to step on his line coach, succeeded in his head coach, and then I became step on his backfield coach in 1937. And stated that for years until you went to New York.

Until 40 years. So now, here you are, do you work at the college? You decide to go back to the University of Oklahoma. You came back in 1937. And then what happened in Florida? Well, we won a few, lost a few and had a few rained out. So there he goes. It was not a tremendous success for a year and yet it wasn't a failure either. I think the record will show we won six of those three. And finished second, I believe, in the conference. And of course, the war. Stuck it's over the head in the picture. And the boys started enlisting. And in short time, I was left without any football players.

And in the time, now, with their style of shoes, let's move it up just a little bit. We talked about the 1916 to 20 times. Now we're in 1941. With their scholarships. We didn't exactly call them that. The boys did draw boardroom. And tuition and $10 a month. Which amounted to about $40 a month. What about the facilities now? They have been improved tremendously. And of course, we're playing now. I don't want to say it. Stands are much larger and so forth. Crowds are much larger. Equipments are better. All the wax has changed. We're playing Texas. That's the big money game. We're better saved all around financially.

So the more ticket players will buy, how many did that? In the space of three weeks, we lost 24 lettermen. And in those days, 24 lettermen was quite a nucleus. I don't recall a single one. That was left out of the 41 team. Maybe it's been a long time ago. I think there might have been one or two, but I write off that. I can't remember that. I think just about everybody joined the service. I'm not a whole thing for a while, see what I'm saying. There's a couple of things that I do want to ask you about this time before we hang it up for the day.

One is the... You started or you used a defense? Was it against class? Against class and high school, that's true, in 1936. Say I had a boy named Peoples. Peoples was a... Well, he was perhaps as good a high school back as I've ever seen. We had to stop him. They didn't throw. They ran. They were running team. So we dared him to pass. We used a five, four, two. We shot a linebacker through when the play showed in his direction. You think that was sort of the four runner of the Blitz for the Red Dog also? It was, I imagine, the four runner of the Red Dog.

It was also used against Northwestern. University, when we played him in Evanston in 1939. There again, they had a running team, coached by a old friend of mine. Happy roll door. Happy couldn't figure out just what was going on. So we took his first team out, put in his other team. But I don't think so this day. Happy knew just what was happening. Because we only went through on certain downs. On running downs, when we anticipated a run, we shot the linebackers. To anticipate it to pass, we dropped him back.

One other thing, and then we went for the day. I was reading in a book about the derivation of a big red or the talking about that. Was that started in those days when he had, when he split up into the red. Probably came into being in 1941. We had two teams. I called one team, the big red, and the other is the ponies. The big red was composed mostly of veterans, the ponies, or the younger players. I think as far as I know. Of course, a lot of teams are called big red, car now, Nebraska, and so forth. But as far as we were concerned here, I think that's the first time.

Did the students pick that up and start calling the team then? I don't know. Oh, here. Is it really? I went to see a shorty day. Oh, God. I didn't know exactly what to expect. I was afraid it might be sacrilegious. But on the other hand, it was anything but sacrilegious. It was tender, realistic, and funny. I recommended very highly. Oh, God. It's a real picture. Oh, man, you can make the darkness light. Only you can make the whole world light. Only you can truly like you do. And make my heart with love for only you.

Only you can make this change in me. For it's true, you are my destiny. And when you hold my hand, I understand this magic that you do. You're my dream come true, my one and only you. And only you. What it was like in the 20s, well, first place. No, I mean, of course, it was very, very much smaller. We had no corner, the corner was non-existent at that time. And so the students went downtown. We used to have snake dances through the downtown district. And the students patronized more of the merchants downtown to a greater extent, of course, than they do now.

Now they have just about everything they want to have and they're on the corner or in the vicinity. But in those days, you had to go to town if you wanted to buy things. It's time for some questions. First of all, I want to ask you about the OU, Illinois. Like in the 17th, Ronald Avenue. We went to Urbana. We took along one or two players who really hadn't worked out with us. They were an army camp. But we told them the signals on the way up there. One of those was Bon Tover, two later played at Harvard. Well, the habit, of course, was another who was a freshman. We walked out on the field there, about 18 of us.

No helmets, very poor equipment. As you might imagine. And here comes Illinois with four different teams, all beautiful suits, colors, and weather helmets. Well, the game wasn't as one-sided as the score might end again. I recall it was something like 44 or 7. But we played in a much better game on that, unfortunately. We couldn't score. War Lab at the Grand Wild. War was a Norman boy. He was ambidextrous. I mean, but that that he could pass with either hand or kick with either foot. And he ran 100 on a dirt track with in 10 seconds or less. I never saw a wall lose 100 yards. After the ball game, Bob Zepke, coach of Illinois,

tried every way in the world to get Wall to stay. I didn't know. But what coach Zepke didn't know, or the ball that it wasn't even ours, but Oklahoma. So that's how it all went. Here's the fresh one. Fresh one. Fresh one? Yes, Texas went dry that day. Army camp nearby. I held both Oklahoma and Texas boys, of course. We hadn't officially declared war, but we were in training. And they got into a big scrap.

The pictures fell down and drink several people. And after the ball game, which we won, incidentally, we walked to the Santa Fe station as usual carrying our suits on our back. And we came by saloon. And as I said, saloons were setting out because Texas was going dry. Well, the boys decided to go in. Of course, I went along with them. They bought several bottles of that cursed up and down in the pants. Now, I didn't buy any, of course, because I didn't have any money. But I did have a package of cigarettes. And I came out of that saloon, smoking a cigarette. And the mom comes, bending on it. And sees me. And he kicked my rear all the way to the Santa Fe station. Here are guys buying whiskey.

I'm only smoking a cigarette. But I take the proud of the partnership. What was it like? As far as the money on your life. I mean, it's a practice. I just hope that you want to use that one. It's an excellent experience. Several times we'd scream at John Fryd before a game on Saturday. Practice was so rough. That the game was a relief. It made you enjoy playing a great deal more, because you didn't have to practice. We scream just about every day. Yeah, I had a good pretty time. We weren't peppered. We were anything but peppered.

Of course, everyone took care of himself. We had no training table and a kind. We just warded it around in different places. Some of the boys belonged to fraternities. In fact, in those days it's about all the football players and some kind of fraternity. And most of them worked in the kitchen or in the dining room for their floor and room. No, there was no training table. No big stakes. We were lucky to get hamburger. Now that's what I'm talking about. No, sorry. I went out to the university in 29. 28. Yes.

No, I'm virtual. The virtual was coursing in 26 when we defeated Senator Alive to the orange field when the wind changed. In 28, we beat him, as I recall, 10 to 7. Was that the score? Yes. Johnny Sargo, who was their star running back and kickering their passer, stepped out of his end zone to front. Some kickers have that habit. They're stepping back as the ball comes down from the center. Johnny Sargo did this. And of course, when he did, he's out of the end zone. And the ball is dead. And that's the safety. That also happened in 1926.

And Richard Jones was the one who made this remark. After the ball game, someone asked him about the game. And he said, Jones had a very high force. He had played with Henry Kendall College when they had been beaten in the university here in 1960. And he was very tough coach. And he said, and I'll try to imitate his voice. No one could expect just to beat Norman McDermott and God. In 1929, I went out to the university as assistant coach to Ad Lindsey, who had been a great star at Kansas. And who had succeeded been the only one. In those days, there not only were no scholarships, there were very few jobs that the person had hit. Really in the east and was moving this way.

The boys were lucky to make 30 cents an hour. Most of those jobs were hashing at some beenery or cutting weeds sometimes on the field for 30 cents an hour. And I remember we had a fellow here who ran a sandwich shop. Joe, or not Burleson's last name. It's Burleson sandwich shop. He fed 22 athletes. That is, I say, he fed him. He fed him hamburgers and chili. And that's just about what we trained of. I can remember we played an M in 1930. And we played an M without a substitute end on the bench. The two ends who started the ball game

were the only two ends who knew the signals from that position. That sounds unbelievable. And it is rather ridiculous. But it's true. We did have one other young man who knew the signals, named High Roberts, but high developed a stomach ache before that we entrained for steel water. And he didn't make the trip. So Fred Cherry, an Edselton nut, started the ball game at end and played the whole game. And we had no one on the bench to substitute for either one. 29, 30, and 31. Then we got fired. We made a trip to Hawaii and played two ball games out there. We came back and found out that our services were no longer desired.

And listen, it's a little rough being out of a job at any time. But it's damn rough being out of a job in a depression. And that's what happened to have happened to me. I had to have a job, of course. Your kid still kicks out of the shoes. So I took a job as assistant coach at the Colorado Scooter Minds. And there he is, the coach's graveyard. That's where they were very empty. And something I didn't know, but it probably wouldn't have made a bit of difference. Was it George Allen? Who was the head coach? Was on his way out. He only had one year's probation. I suppose I would have taken the job anyhow because I needed work. And when you need work, you take what's available. We lasted one year.

George was fired. And you know, the practice is in football. That if the head coach goes the assistant's goal. So here I am again without a job and a depression. I came back to Norman High School, always back to Norman High School. And I coached Norman High School in 32, 3, 4, 5, and 6. Of course, in 35 and 6, we had tremendous teams in 35. They sent us to the sugar bowl and in 36, they sent us to the orange bowl. The merchants and the screw. In those days, the university didn't have the teams as they have now. They weren't as successful. So, adding the high school received a great much more attention

than they do now, really, from the townspeople. Now, of course, everybody's crazy about football or the university. 41. I would say it was a respectable season. Not really good, not really bad. Six, three. We won six and lost three. And the three teams that defeated us that year went on to make some bigger things. We did play second in the conference, as I recall. But, Missouri must have won. I, Missouri and Nebraska won.

I forget which. I mean, Missouri must have won it because they played too late in the sugar bowl. They had a fine, you can go with a fine bowl. And 42. Gorsi. War. And within a space of three weeks, we lost 24 lettermen. And the border regions. Forty to discontinue university athletics. The president at that time was Joe Brent. He came here in 41, as had I. Joe Brent went before the regions and persuaded them to reverse their decision. Since he had obtained the permission of Captain John Donaldson,

the president of the Naval ROTC here, to use their Navy boys in athletics. Captain Donaldson was quite a character. He was the first Navy Oklahoma to graduate from the Naval Academy, where he had been a member of the track team, and had held the Eastern Intercollegiate Record for the Broad Jump at 18 feet, 6 inches. Now, before Captain John left Army, he was jumping 24 feet. That brings up the old bromide. The older we get, the faster we ran when we were boys. But anyhow, Captain Donaldson was a very enthusiastic athletic fan, and his boys were the ones who made up the team.

Now, these youngsters were long on brains and short on brawn. Most high school teams now are much heavier than our university teams. And 42, 43, 44, and 45. Want me to go on? 42 was a so-so season. But in 43 and 44, we were able to win the conference championships. And certain health problems developed. In fact, I went to Mayo and was told that I should get out of football coaching. And I came back and told President Cross, who was president at that time, having succeeded Joe Brandt, that I would like to get out of the coaching,

and he told me to do so. He would like for me to stay until the end of the war, and for more coaches would be available. And this I agreed to do. And at the end of the 45 season, the war was over. And I retired for football coaching. And went into the Intermiro Department as an associate professor. Now I'm 48. So I go on. Sure. People. They actually sat on the first floor. That's true. That's very true. In the Navy.

Of course, the captain is in charge, and his word is low. Until you get into the hospital. And then the doctor takes over, and his authority supersedes the captains. Now, the boat had gone into the infirmary with a cold. He's a member of the NROTC. He'd gone into the infirmary where the cold several days before our game with Missouri. The Navy regulations seem to be that in order to be discharged from the hospital. He must have had a normal temperature for 24 hours. This people hadn't had. Captain Donaldson pledged for the doctor to know of there. But finally, there was a compromise.

The Navy doctor said that we both could participate in three plays. We usually, for that day, nearly go line in three plays, he scored three touchdowns. No, but intramurals is about the closest thing. Of course, there's a wide difference in the two. But you do have the young man, your dear and my young man, and your dear and your sports. You're right. You don't get over something like that quickly. It took me many, many days.

I might say many, many years to find me realize that I was in a different world. And that I was not coaching football. But I did do one thing, which I think helped. I vowed that I would never step on the field. I would never watch a practice. Go to the games, of course, but never, never go out for practice or watch a practice. Or participate in any way, or the program. That's how I have done it this day. No, didn't last you with me. Jim Tatum succeeded me here, came from Jacksonville Naval Base, where he coached. And he brought some boys.

Of course, he also had all of my boys. All of my boys had returned. They weren't boys. They were men. They left his boys, but they returned as men. And he brought quite a number of players with him from Jacksonville Naval Base. But great many of the players had married. Things were higher. The whole situation was different. And Tatum spent all of the money that we had accumulated during it. There were four years, and we had laid up a pretty good pile. Before they ever kicked off in the fall, they had to borrow money in the fall to complete the season. But he did one thing. He got the boys. And that was the important thing. Right, he went to Maryland, but stepped into his shoes.

You see, I played with him during the day and I had played with him. He did all my scout and help coach. Bruce, I had never coached. So I missed him by one. He finished in 28, of course I was there. I coached him 29. But there's been very close ties between us and he helped with what we call junior courses. And he had a great imagination. He invented some plays, some of them legal, some of them illegal.

Yes, the boxing did. We had an intramural boxing all along for many years. But competitive boxing as a team and fighting boxing against other skiers came along in 48. I thought that I've always believed that boxing is a wonderful sport and properly conducted. Perhaps a dangerous sport if it isn't properly conducted. We formed a team. There were no scholarships. The boys came out. Some of them had boxing previously. Some of them had never had on a parade with us.

We started in the gloves fighting boxing scoops like Oklahoma City, athletic coach, athletic coach. The Indian scoops, Indian scoops, over the state. And we stayed in the golden gloves until I played 56. And 56, we became a member of the NCAA and locked Houston University. LSU and several other skiers in addition to our golden glove competition. That lasted for two years. There were some very fine boxing developed here at that time.

Among them, Jerry Brown-Rake, won the Golden Gloves twice in Chicago. Nick Wall, who also won the Golden Gloves twice in Chicago. Cliff Bradley, he was twice everyweight state champion. Billy Carter and Bob Thomas Vocal boys with very fine careers. And quite a few other boys, Bill Chido, among them. But in 1958, a young man was killed in the ring. A beard was at Madison, Wisconsin. I'll be the outwards between Wisconsin and San Jose State. And then there was a great deal of criticism, of course, about boxing made group. LSU, Houston, Idaho State, and the Big Can Scoos immediately abandoned boxing. They left no one for us to compete against.

So we too abandoned sport in 1958. 1956. That I don't recall possibly that sport. I don't recall whether they were six or more. There were some scoos naturally that had discontinued football during the war. Our schedule had been made up in advance.

And the Big Six, it was. The Big Six had played, as I remember, the No School at any time, discontinued. Although several of them had to depend on 4Fs, if they had no NRO TC units, about all they could do is try to find all the 4Fs that could. And that's where Tulsa, several other scoos came up. And they had 4Fs on 13. Phantom War was good. They were 4Fs, 5Fs, 5Fs. That is, how did you get in here?

How did I get in mind it? In 1960, and I came here as a freshman. And as we've said before, without football. In those days, freshman were used as cannon fodder. They brought back the kicks so the ends could practice tackling. And they were just, as I say, they were just tackling doubles. Scrimmaged to every day. I'd boxed and had to have it of clearing my nose because we didn't have mouthpieces in those days. The boxes didn't wear mouthpieces. So you had to keep your mouth closed tightly because if you're hit in the jaw with your mouth open, you're very likely to get a broken jaw. So we developed a habit of breathing exclusively through our nose.

And you get hit on the beat quite often with over left jabs. So you start, kind of, like that, for instance, to keep your nose open. And I had the habit of doing that when I carried the ball. And I had, Benny wanted to give his in some tackling practice. So he said, and he was in him a good way. Hey, where's that guy? Where's that guy? There's snorts. Have him go down there and return some of these kicks. And the name's dark. I was snorter and I'm snorter to this day, to my grandchildren, to everyone else. The only people who've called me about my name, my sister is one. The only people here in Norman, the whole of the people that take a shade, follows me near town. But in Norman, I know I was a state, I'm not a snorer. So I suppose they write that on my tailstone.