Kansas Government: Right Size? Wrong Size?

today on cape york resents kansas government right size wrong size i'm j mcintyre kansas public radio has teamed up with the podcast state house blend for today's program it's all look at kansas government featuring former democratic governor john carlin and former speaker of the house michael neill but first a quick thank you to everyone who made a pledge during k pr spall membership drives kbr present is only possible because our members support it members like you the value locally produced programs like a pr presents and our statehouse coverage and help keep you up to date and a more informed voter this past week members pledged more than two hundred sixty five thousand dollars to kansas public radio were you one of them if not please consider making a pledge today our secure websites is k pr that take you that edu and click on support and from all of us at kansas public radio

thanks kansas public radio and statehouse blend hit the road last month for a live event at the celtic fox in topeka it's all look at kansas government and whether we've got the right amount of government for a state our size this event was hosted by sam zeff of state house blend and featured former democratic governor john carlin who now teaches political science at a kansas state university and former republican speaker of the house michael neill he's now president and ceo of the kansas chamber of commerce also on the panel political reporter jim mclean a vacate i news service and katie ours own stephen koranda was on hand to take questions from the audience again this event was recorded live at the celtic fox on september eighth two thousand sixteen you'll hear the sounds of the celtic fox in the background on today's broadcast and with that let's turn it over to

sam zeff who asked the analyst to introduce themselves i'm john carlin i currently teach a kansas state university's microbial curley president ceo begins to recover but joining us keep your statehouse reporter stephen koranda he's gonna be wandering about and taking questions and a top guy with educate chinese service jim mclean is here out will also be hearing from our friends in the audience heard the celtic fox up as we go along we wanna get above just a back and forth that we have on issues like taxes school financing guns we want to try and answer the question can just right size or wrong size just what should government be doing for us which is why we have a former governor and a former house speaker with us because you need a gust folks to answer such weighty questions but since this a statehouse when we put off the weighty questions for just a few moments while i ask john and mike my two favorite questions tell me about your families and your pets michael start with you married my wife cindy

is currently down and hutchinson of the kansas state fair he serves on the kent state for warren and enter sports on law is set to appear in the gut son austin was in grad school to you in bigoted ms bachrach and behavioral research i am his favorite subject for that daughter haley is the icu the trauma nurse at the st louis university hospital in st louis are quiet him man i met my wife cut to be yesterday in lansing correctional facility in the safe harbor program she's a four month old lab she's a black lab which means she's a black lab and a chocolate lab combine and i'll be filling out the adoption papers tomorrow so excited about the test that story aired i think on wednesday just let the families in why glenn works for the provost primarily although it

ends up in but anybody in an aerosol at kansas state university and has for years he was actually a acting head of technology for three years it was built three six months turned out to be three years the kids are on the east coast they've and what's in the stately say in amman that junction new jersey grandchildren adopted twin boys from vietnam with the day when his partner john live on capitol hill i know that's a lot to talk about the audience to i think the questions and i think that and stand up in and get the public conversation public persona start with my colleague jim mclean of the conversational with hiv that is putting up the check we were having a very light of the issues but like other think about this first one might get your variance of wearing the same

shabby and when they are on the theme of tonight's conversation like little signs you in this because you're on that tax bill without it we could talk about the shot of adrenaline in output of the economy we want to but my question for you is in several years prior that conservatism legislature lamenting how hard it was to cut spending and cut it was just it was i was originally on the table with respect and so a lot of talk in those days about the strategy called starve the beast to what extent from your inside information or knowledge was the pastoral designed to implement the strategy to force a downsizing in state government but you're like i guess at first it might sound somewhat the premise because the general idea of getting to a low tax situation is actually true stimulate the economy too stay a stagnant size you actually group ah but in

order to have successful tax policy you also for the third time and you have less revenue on the table you're also going to have to bring spending in line with of reminiscent of that standing or downsizing of the size of government that during the current time i would say that the primary reason for doing the tax reductions was not necessarily to downsize government but it is a necessary aspect of making that punishes success so what's the period of time then that were where we're waiting for a shot of adrenaline to kick and it's not a shot of adrenaline is i think we we've we've found out and in fact it's very hard for anybody to forget it the national stagnation nationally because there was thought that they pull out of recession quarter of an idea and kansas you also have the other hits aviation the hip oil and gas may have to a commodity prices and so that his client was leaving to coming out of it as quickly as others as you see

it to the south of moore oklahoma which did not to tax or tax reform they've had month after month after month after month of shortfalls and they actually have a pier shortfall live and we give so it's a it's a problem that is that is actually occurring and nationwide in and as i mentioned we've got three key ingredients for a commoner the suffering of just the somewhat when the tax bill is primarily designed in your mind to stimulate the economy but a byproduct of that was the navy shrink government at least temporarily and in that was an intentional walk right because we've had we had we had a decade in which we have five hundred maybe some percent increase in in the budget director a time when inflation was only about a hundred and sixty percent over the korean so we we we've been spending quite a bit over overtime a relative to inflation and basically what you're saying is is that the legislature we got lots of money because her school was the taxpayers of one of the year

to us with her hand out to get more fines and and that's that's hard to argue against its got fungi in the end spending and so there was a perfect time there were would we had growth and state budgets of over nine percent when in fact inflation for less than what we had we had not so it against her jodi think about that death if there's a pot of money will love this city kansas spend it like a suggesting that does mars is money that everybody stands like there's no tomorrow we think that one thing all depends on what needs to be invested in the ninth and quite frankly as time goes on challenges to the new challenges take place in and they don't have to consider anything result audiences illinois and who did the original desk about when that tax reduction bill on act i don't have experience with my good friend like jamie

schwartz for me ll season do a variety of things you know it's simple easy mr crossley and how they could possibly have projected on the number and i honestly don't know what it was going to become a nail say and i don't blame the legislators of the governor's somebody didn't do the puzzle or actually written like about forty seven and so you're referring to the plo see what we now call loophole which excludes else does a small business is from state income taxes and a huge impact on revenue coming into the state to say the least on the issue of human rights i don't normally talk about from my point of view as wisely investing and what's important for the state to do like support public education like take care of the roads in the high waves i would say those are two very highly important areas to address and i personally don't think it's really driven by what's available it should be driven by what is the wisest investment for the

best return the flaw in the attitude of people who just want to cut taxes is it you is still in a plane on a tax but now because you're not properly investing a level of whys return you end up with like the road system now where rob got so that you could fill gaps and were no longer maintain our highways that's not going to work out very well that's not a tax cut but in a benefit taxpayers because at some point those roads are very very good ride on at some point people are not going to want to invest in kansas and becomes a state doesn't think parents infrastructure say we're a public education if we don't invest at a level they give people confidence we're finding a quality public education system people looking at leaving not coming not investing and so it's

not hire low and finding the right spot where we get the right to return and this attitude on the part of too many in the far right it's cut cut cut it there's never a cut that is unwise and those kinds of cuts in my opinion are costing very taxpayers at they claim they're helping because when you start losing quality public schools and the quality of the community goes down property values go to war energy well enough that he wants to fall up here but i'm when i have a quick question from what i want to direct to what did john just said ah are all cuts good cuts and in the government budget we suggest that you don't want to just for the sake of cutting that you can you do what we did agree on this is the government gun rights laws fundamentally i have a philosophy that and taxpayers and citizens of your state do not exist to support government government exist to support the needs of its citizenry so you

got to get that right if it's it's not a matter of government that you can decide what government needs and then you go get that from you like that you've got to be reasonable about that up on the subject of the transportation that there were more there were more funds transfer from the highway plan and the two administrations before this current administrations and the happenstance got an enema but this is not this is not new you shouldn't be doing it just for the sake just for the sake of cutting agree with john i agree with john when you go from twelve hundred miles of made his budget every year to two hundred miles how can that recall the government ordered for the people of kansas river what about every domain kind of women writers one we can be very proud of but if you look at other states that you always know when you get into that state as you can tell if you're asleep

you would know that you've arrived in the state has never taken care of our infrastructure you get that statement is barack obama and possibly get out that's what we need is kansas to avoid we had a great system when you take care of it and i don't think you have to be a civil engineer to know that when you go from twelve under five hundred miles a year or two hundred minutes gonna be destroyed in just a matter of time and what this does occur to me that your head of the state's largest business organization and if people are talking of business is trying to recruit businesses in kansas all the time we leave her whatever how important good infrastructure highways heart in that recruitment process we've also heard how important quality education is one of those a voice separately kansas in terms of that competition that was a very high interest rate severance we had good skilled knowledgeable workers show in terms of where we need to be in terms of supporting

highway system is reporting public education or weaken the white spot right now are you making an argument that were in the sweet spot right now in the sweet spot in terms of our level of support for public education levels of corporate restructuring highways are we where you were you were just saying are we right size in terms of the public education where we have been very generous with when you take a look at that or are states and nationally that we've been very generous work probably in the top five in the country in terms of the percentage of our state general budget goes to work in education site but i think we've done very well on the education site what what we need to keep in mind when and where i thought we were the primer subject of this is just these that the size of government kansas is that for a small state a news consider all the other states to two point eight million people but when you take a look at that government employment for example uproar ten thousand population

we're in the top three that's county state's cities townships that all the backwoods schools near an answer because they forgot predominantly from schools so i would i we weigh both the financial a way but an excellent now i'm from the basic promises and i think you're doing tremendous job with the resources that they have and we have never answers as those authorities asian advocated for a reduction in school spending by the way we have concerns about the fact that we've only had a seven percent increase in enrollment or a percentage increase in the numbers of teachers double that but the non instructional at ease of grown at over forty percent and so what we would like to see is more of the existing worse resources that we have targeted toward core classroom quality instruction in

instruction i think needs to be more than what the current state board of education definition instruction is by the way but i think we need to be part of those resources i'm very encouraged fire new commissioner of education ray watson who really was to look at individual ice plants instruction so that the students every single student when we look at what their wants and needs are and then work with the business to line the needs of business with the students that we are exporting a lot of our educational state a point you i hear from john on this about the other the right size of government that is no catcalls but questions are very welcome john i wanna hear your father react where are we on the size of government in campus only to big are we too small we write we should be i think it comes back up on its analysis of the ledger the names and when you find

those there's no magic formula says no the amazing friends from a mike isnt and although that you can take statistics and assad's them any way you want to come up with what you want you know it was very convenient to include funding public education talk about statistics when you put the transfer or was there were no longer worried that showed a much better picture the reality out there in the classroom the other thing i would say is that you know you can kick around all the stats you thought the superintendent's top the county commissioners thought that they were out there at that where the rubber hits the road so to speak and dealing with resources and they'll give you a very different picture of what's going on and you find very few you can find them but very few republican county commissioners that are thrilled with what state known as the secure not one of you is not been

positive it's not been constructed and then he flips them in a much more difficult position to make it to the people so i'm a man as he gained you think that we are too big or too small me wish that i'd say right now we definitely need our money back they got but it's got to be corrected quickly as quickly as realistic there's no simple way to do it because if we're talking about big numbers use dollars so i can i can i tell you when you're only going to honor miles of migrants and it normally was twelve hundred you don't have you know to supply that your house applied to me maintenance issue you let that happen very long and you don't make trouble so you know it's hard to say that we've got to restore that there is not that you can play with the statistics all you want but there is not a feeling that we and the traveling public education

teachers or alleviate its harder to peel positions colleges of education are advising orleans given serious consideration but there's danger go someplace else for a job that's not a set of actions that bodes well for the state exams or get underneath us a little bit so the white side wrong side of things we've seen in this election if we see anything we see that there are large numbers of voters who cared less disaffected from the purchase of the conventional politics of the day parishioner supporter and more supporters on one side of the spectrum donald trump and others on the other side of the spectrum and you hear a lot about the political parties that we have in the current elections being one is that nobody is it is increasing so if the government is serving people correctly if people have confidence in government and confidence of the tax dollars being spent widely wisely rather what do you attribute this this feeling of disaffection and disdain for the convention and the current

system where as i come from another issue out there i i understand the politics of it but not accepting the medicaid money was it realistic for rural hospitals in and soon to be rural a nursing home or maybe it was no it should be looked at and looked at from the standpoint of kansans are paying income tax to the federal government for other states to accept the program are denying that not taking those revenues you know you got a hospital independence of this rubble that many others that are really struggling it's just a real practical problem if people understand what would really i want to let my question again through the issue is right to why does it lean on its face you would think that people would embrace this notion like it better that one of the reasons people aren't yet because they don't have a lot of confidence that it will be administered well run well and they don't think the federal government necessarily can afford it and they don't think that the federal

government will continue to fund it at ninety percent as the law says selected to that issue why people don't trust their government anymore and that's one of the reasons for the opposition to that not the only ones are our coverage for that well i don't know that i want you to set the answers there's concern about that and understandably so what is the practical and has never had a community that struggling all on the hospital and i know enough about a rural area the values at a hospital and that's another step towards losing their whole community and now i just think it's going to be looked at from a practical point of you and gets people i know that i would say that would be a popular move and say it would be a valuable and positive move for those communities that need those resources that the cost will be sustained and it's got a slip over a nursing home no faster than scientists wanted to question the audience but i would like to respond very quickly to a medicaid expansion where you work on this and you think that that it's out it a bridge too far for

government we're actually very open to discussions on on a not not a you go to make expansion the federal government's proposing that one is built around more maura long marvels of the arkansas was drizzling is actually got jeers turned down by the by a cms but you know having a little bit of skin in the game by my patients but one that's a little bit better designed the problem as we understand it in kansas is not so much providing services for an expanded a population thats actually be the provider reimbursement issue that that became acutely barbara walters we have a reduction in and provider reimbursements we're very sympathetic towards that but one of the ways of getting around that would be to me the most direct way been around that would be to reverse the cuts in the provider reimbursements at the federal level

but the providers understand that that's not going to happen and in another way of trying to do is to pull down dollars from the medicaid expansion so it's it's the role is a provider reimbursement top of the issue and that's what's causing the hospitals like independence to be challenged and we are sympathetic to use your expertise can jump in i just wanna be clear and like try to censor there are multiple problems here that research provider reimbursement what we're going to happen as a medic here forever seared those rivers rage work unintentionally with the thought that the medicaid expansion would essentially offset those cuts and not only that but so the deeper cuts in medicaid expansion were not the result of obamacare the result of the sequestration and the budget cuts that were forced to when there was a standoff in washington and the government shut down temporarily that's a big reason to for the medicare reimbursement that you can play all out on the fat the feet of obamacare question steve we have a former transportation secretary who has a question that thank you very much an amazingly i'm gonna ask a question that isn't about transportation because my blood pressure will go

up and it just wouldn't be good for me but on this issue of right size downsize i want to throw something out then i think isn't related to fight that has become a huge concern for me about the state government and that's basically having the right people i had seen over the last eight years project when the department transportation which i'm originally from iran but through other state agencies unfamiliar with is well an absolute movement out of state government either because positions of the last four of the most capable people have left to take other jobs and i look at a country that feels very very to me so it's not just a question of are we creating the size of government that are state needs but do we have the capacity and i'm pretty fearful that quite frankly we don't have the capacity which then continues to create this narrative to the public that we're beginning that can't shoot straight and i feel like it's just become this negative cycle that no one is addressing sufficiently and i'd be curious what he would say about that we'll start with john paul i

think politically it's a strategy for the far right to carry out what they really want to win it's basically destroyed government anything they can do to lower the quality frustrate more people about government not doing the right job helps him politically to demonstrate government is that we don't need as they were white i would have to what you set them in the sense of white only grave and it's been in a variety of ways this is a change in a classified session and suddenly become an unclassified position brings more and more politics and patronage all things or many many years we try to get away from him in a real professional civil servants says i'm you know i'm thinking about this and you know i suppose enter jackson's general in our say or the swords in the hands as if they're going back to the spoils system and it's going to be great while we work hard has a country and the state of

professional eyes are operation and it's it's been a drastic change in in public service because of morale issues because of this shifting to political appointments that were the administration to appoint whomever they want want a classified recent wave says no one this wobble recently now the montana for the details on where they're taken advantage there are several issues along that line that i've been very negative towards were out and if you think your point is correct if the morale is that there's vacancies job not getting done when it just breaks more resentment out there the government is not doing it can't deliver more criticism more firepower for conservatives say we got to continue to cut government and it's just it's a cycle that's out of control and it's also another reason you night by jumping on the selection work in art or sanity but even with success was

seventy it's going to take time those are huge long building program restore equality it's not just about increasing it's about getting back to equality and getting back to that level of services that makes the best for the media and for the taxpayer i do things i believe it is our first andrew jackson reference on steakhouse plus professor nestle yeah we appreciate that law and don't like your thought on the brain drain of state government employees yeah that i would encourage on what the answer is what the right size is that i am concerned in all so statistics out again that affect memories for four decades we've we've been ranked very high and that's not a good that's not a good thing in terms of hefty public employees for population when we we're very heavy public sector we had a decade in which the only growth billy growth in employment was in the public sector we need we

need private sector growth make that make the pie bigger now that doesn't necessarily mean outsourcing everything but there are certainly some efficiencies my standard definition of what i think the government is is that it is that government should be there to do those things that can be done or cannot be done as well by individuals and desperate much for republican platform still believe that's very true and so if you see an expansion in the end the mission mission creep or whatever you need you need the right size and i'm like john i don't know what that i don't know what that number is but we i don't know i don't even think we want a nicer will be below average on ft ian in the top five in terms of the level of government that that we're expecting our taxpayers to pay for things to it don't you think our equation though mike is not just that we have all these ft useful tiny little moment but the kind of services that they're providing solar for providing more services and human services with a two point eight million cans of the convention

or were growing government at a time when our population is not growing so i question the need to keep expanding government when your population base is not really didn't want me at government hasn't been growing in recent years clearly but i don't think it's a question of numbers so much as a spartan up expertise and capacity and competency this as we ask government to didn't want to think in terms when you we've privatized things are when you outsource things it does increase the need for somebody to be watching so that there's some accountability there and you do have to have the people say publicly we're capable watchdogs and i think one of the concerns that i hear a lot about these days is that people at that level are leading state government and rose again it's not a numbers question it's a capacity and a competency question and youre close enough to state government and you interface with the time that you heard that are to me that is a concern i hear a lot about syria county police people but the key people in terms of votes against what was in

that environment theres a mass exodus there's a lot of experience fairly recently and so it's it's where we're kind of losing the people we can't afford to lose one eye and that i meant no raises for state employees for years and a lot of other things i think are contributing to the internet and that's been true for four quite sometime in every every administration working when germans frazier to turn inspiration towards the end of an administration you see you see kids on sex is now i can't quantify how many excesses if you see a lot less you're listening to kbr presents on kansas public radio i'm kay mcintyre if you're just joining us today on k pr presents kansas government right fries wrong size kbr teamed up with the podcast statehouse planned for today's program it's a look at a kansas government featuring former democratic governor john carlin and former speaker of the

kansas house republican michael neill this was all live event at the celtic fox in topeka on september ninth two thousand sixteen hosted by sam zeff of state house blend were also hearing from veteran political reporter jim mclean who is with a k h i news service a division of the kansas health institute kbr is statehouse reporter stephen koranda was also on hand to take questions from the audience like this one we have a question here from drey it's like you know i'm trained for some i like to think that kansas's say you know mrs thomas' three i think almost every smart people worried like something that we would talk to do you were just discussing recently about the full time employees and and having the budget you know needing to cut taxes more to save money in order to help the

state to thrive when it be more prudent to have full time employees who have less red tape to go through and make the process more efficient that have more knowledgeable colleagues and then on top of that would maybe even more prudent you know if your looking at cutting or increasing taxes looking at the economic situation before hand because if you have a bad economy you cut taxes on forums and on constituents are going to keep that money in a naturally not going to spend money and so the economy is good you have practice is generally people are going to have that much i want to get your thoughts on that idea of a moderate kansas and what can be done to have knowledgeable staff and have a tax policy that seems to be far it to question says kansas moderate and we moved away from that and i think i'm hearing

the question about whether the attacks policy needs to be changed i think it very hard to make a case that were moderates when most of the legislation going through the kansas legislature they sign of the governor comes about like an ally kids not designed are set up to promote our push moderate sensible legislation is designed to strip back government downsize and privatized about anything that would be in contrast to quality public services providing those services needed in justified for this is my conservative moderates stay for the moment conservative but obviously after three conservative election cycles you that this is obviously a more moderate cycle that we're going through i remember when

i first came into the legislature gentleman by the name of the governor and in it i went to bed on election night been satisfied and one real like to find out the next morning that the democrats have taken over the house so we we have you know we have swings back and forth so off obviously this last a swing as more moderate well when i get back to this is kind of the question now one image from understand question here actually may be talking more and more of the public sector employees that we were talking about earlier rather than private sector and i guess i don't really have a fundamental decision disagree with that weak we as lawrence i should really not so much involvement on public employee side but on the private sector side where break down barriers to keep people from from getting a job with insurance provided services what have you but we do we do agree that lower taxes do have a tendency to stimulate your economy and make you know rising tide recedes all ships and that's the

store philosophy oh what you imagine the fact we get shift back and forth quickly that circuitry would typically don't happen for no reason like understand from your perspective what you just acknowledged that there seems to be at least initially in the primary results back to a more moderate candidates from the conservatives at what's driving that in the end do you think in your mind and because your organization does not receive any changes to the tax policy do you think that the tax policies which driving a sort of indication of a combination thereof well i you know i can't speak for you or voters from what you know what caused them to vote the way they did when we do know what what what's interesting is it is when you take a look at or monthly receipts is reduced to pursue income taxes so you get less of them were actually getting more and where were we were being hurt his own sales tax and on corporate which again i think is a function of the economy that we're

the economic headwinds that were having with aviation as in and well yes and so we we now have twenty thousand more through fourteen twenty thousand more new taxpayers to stay abroad and one point one three billion dollars of new income of which nine hundred million dollars of that is tax the new new tax that they're so scary numbers didn't change from a c corp and i'll see these are brand new taxpayers who have come to the state for whatever reasons good schools good roads whether it's the tax full suit went well this is all the other people who else in any of them so it's it's it's a mixed but they're not paying taxes but that they're paying taxes you're not paying taxes on a pastor and you cannot pay income taxes that they maybe pay sales taxes they crossed a line in a big bind together there there's one point one three billion dollars a new

doors commands that which monitor minus taxes that's a fact or negative there's another question out there about what i saw you look like a man who needs to respond but joe wasn't a good job i'm just curious as when it's not and going i am on the politics of all this when i had my fascination this is not what we're going through in kansas just another little chance for a while now are going this way the big differences there are a lot of republicans out there that are fed up with what's been going on that's why we have to change in the august primary collected some different legislate drawers all year that it was a what you think about state government in terms of the governor and the legislature and now they're upset they don't like about the direction i'm talking about registered republicans and so they made some changes and i think like some more changes in november but it's not just a trend i think it's an understanding of the people of kansas that's what

we tried to do not work and when you listen actually i mean why local chamber present or witnesses about a year ago going to a national meeting and an internationally recognized expert in economic problems i don't invest in kansas right now it's the worst place to go they're doing everything wrong when you're the joke you know late night comics that's not going to end and so why i think it's the people of kansas are saying these things are gonna be done differently what was striking did not work i think most of them say ok you drive by when you won't admit it's not working you like any changes at one of us regular they can do now is both were given legislative candidates and celia question yes aliens who we have a question here from elizabeth good evening this might be more of a comment that up probably to address

that so it's a legitimate question and it seems to me public funding often if we want talk about trickle down economics and it doesn't and that trickling down into private sector jobs for example kbr i'm assuming every person i see out there in an orange vest they're not it got employee they are eight they are employed by a private sector company can't have contractors association we see their signs everywhere same for the school system the food coming into the school system the people put an ad out that the company like mr horse or c so i guess i would like to know the chambers stands on there's this idea that public funding for public services actually do you provide private sector job opportunities would we get a great in fact we'd like to see more of and it services and transportation food services more of more more

use of plug in or local agreements in and co op so we had to actually support that are much like an energy that you know that when you cut down on the number miles the state dot is having maintenance on that means that some of these contractors are not getting contracts they usually get which means or not hiring local people so when you cut state government i think which is suggesting is that you're also cutting private sector jobs sometimes and then we have very few industries in the state that have guaranteed income at their birth to harm our members that are guaranteed from any source whatsoever that there have a job tomorrow but it's all it's all free market competition and so yes when you have when you have a downturn in the economy has been less less money for for everybody i don't know of any industry isn't title are mandated to have a certain amount of money that they can spend on private

contractors are in their own country and so it's not it's not on and potential type of thing i think what you say is true there's less money to spend on private contractors are scandalous private contractor while that this service that mean that we have to take into consideration that money's been taken from aig say it's been taken from live from by lot of administration that's money not going into it works in other programs that and that means people are losing jobs that's true or or official position has been to not take the money from cable which we haven't stated we have we have a fight in a legislative agenda ought to know what would you have suggested they do if they had robbed a part of billions of dollars reduce spending or not there were not advocate for tax increases or not an advocate for a tax increase as we record we represent we represent businesses were not the kansas or not the nea were not the kids contractors association we've we represent businesses and their

number one their number one concern's tackles they don't want to be taxed more like a return to that listener is effective sixteen communities in the state's prominent communities not little bitty world communities have their own plans they don't necessarily go along with your policy and they are supportive of reusable i'm nanette there's a group over there that meets on a weekly basis conservative republican businessman and a woman the beijing china what would they recommend because they know we need more revenue for public education for universities and we're taking care of our roads they know we're in trouble and these are republicans there's as folks what they have a day job where i know that you got invest in a level you really get the returns to make things really were it's not just the taxpayer what the people need roads

education except one wrap up here are pretty quickly come at a time that jamal wanna wanna get one foster tracks a conversation remember back where we started so for film like lilith is on the hot seat like on the other hand you know we know what we know what the public mood is of it is what it is an end this conversation reflect that to some degree but i really appreciate you being here but early on a conversation it said a researcher position where you're not in favor of cutting funding for schools you also has said that you not only favor of reducing funding decade up to favor the tax cuts and acknowledge that we would have a revenue shortfall over a period of years intel the stimulative effect of the tax cut took effect so given the fact that kate up spending and education funding education more than half the budget knowing that i was gonna be a downturn state revenues what did you think was going to happen we should have the official position we don't want schools that we don't want to cut and when school's eminent well you inclined to med school superintendents and

school board members is answer many semi market was murdered everything into one set keep kids form of educational will confirm that there has not been a reduction a lot of the last production and they stayed with gun owners do is important to remember is that well it may not have been cut aid has not kept up with the cost that school districts have wichita all the ones in johnson county will pay insurance is going up utilities are going up again to give their people some races and so it's not keeping up with that so there's not exotic endorsing keeping the proportions have not matched the to the budget recommendations of this local school districts but not today that does not mean the pavement so you lean forward and one might be like if you

did i've known john for years one month they were people we we have not agreed on many things but i'm respecting very much want a rapid efforts with a question for for both of you and that is where i got sucked away farm guys talk about dogs steers me so i decided i want to go there are unified in one as well over the last few years we've seen a lack of highway patrol troopers we've seen a lack of katie i agents we've seen problems at state hospitals whatever you think about school budgets are their districts that have laid off people generally not teachers but have laid off people and so like its roads are not being in some cases maintained so my question are we start with you john and there are people being hurt the people that hurt one thing is essential

yes i mean the idea that trigger level out there has been a slight increase recently elon recovered some of that line i believe that it's about a dozen but in some ways those are the parts of state government that really suffer you can make a case for because there's no big constituency to step up when the lobby and communicate in an ambush for them in the hospitals for an example though that there the constituency that the public schools there and so they're in some ways they're probably know a worse situation in many ways and yes i mean we just cut back services no no where our word is back and not doing the quality and the sensible treatment that when a ride that and demonstrate it was so valuable that is for the individuals that need those services but in the total best interest of the state of kansas says it has been a bad situation and it's why so many people are upset

and it's understandable that people are frustrated because when i have a situation where somebody in our family in terms of are still redacted because of declining services are closing or whatever or whatever the service might be theirs pay of their citizens know that state employees were made year after year are not respected or given any kind a raise to keep up with inflation it sends a message a no win north carolina or when in fact they are very important in providing services are actually necessary my kids are paying people being hurt in kansas from lack of troopers lack of kb itunes roads not being the people being laid off and school districts problems in the middle an end state that passed by i guess i'm a love we've been a glass half full guy for the entire time that i wouldn't say which all my life i've been very proud of the state

under democrat administrations and republican administrations and still are proud of that we quickly talk about on time and concern about the national speaker that was talking about don't go to kansas because local lot of publications that out of state companies look at to determine whether they're going to do a visitor whatever we write very hard with outside magazine top five week we have not we've had robust growth and are and aren't new new memoir based mainly people who have either expanded into the states or or have come into the state and new jobs we have a lot to be proud of in the state and we're happy to read and talk about the things are going on the state that they insist they hear all people think that things are going down the toilet and anything you talk about that enough that becomes a self fulfilling prophecy so you think it's not reality hit me that the public perception and the reason we

see the governor's population are unfavorable are rates so high and what we saw in the primer election that the public a sibling this understanding would have known and not necessarily believe you've got a lot of things going on at the national level you've got a lot of anti incumbency national level of distrust in state government local government federal government of people want something different so the river is that factor there is every single day this administration spent a lot of money like all marriages of two to make sure this administration is not gonna be successful i think that's a shame because of denigrate or or state but i think criticism is this good it's all think of but to spend day after day after day just trying to make things as bad as they possibly can for political gain i think it'll ever this little i hear you say that you think that this is a story of success story than simply being

ignored apple i think of my creases ministration right now do a poor job of telling the story is a lot of what we see when we go out look at top prospects talk members are or what that what they are concerned about but the good news isn't going long unemployment rate that news isn't going on to the point where where we are almost virtually full on we got employers out there are ready to hire and we don't have we have both ends of the spectrum a lack of employability skills by some of the individuals in command so while we do need to stay on the high end and so we're working very closely with them like flanders with with regions and ray watson with jazz form of education to align the needs those those openings those needs with the with the school curriculum this week we do want a trained workforce

and there are jobs that never alone you're not going to have a trained workforce was going to invest in the system and to educate and train them and it just it's not going to happen it's not that complicated and i and i would say respectfully and i would say my care until you got your job with the chamber were paid by somebody else you know i want that were poor i can't you know yes my political differences is the summit's time in dc that work were glad having that if i really lived there john michael you think the plain stephen stephen koranda from kansas public radio thank you jim mclean

well if i guess you know i mean it's thanksgiving now normally with two guests jeremy to get me ask you both for your song recommendations for our walk off music normally i mean i take a superdelegate status and i'm naked pick myself up and ask the audience tonight you have to pick the two songs please do it on the basis of your music taste not what your politics are sort of your first jobs that weezer song please no it differently acted differently wow i like that idea but i got that email with a question that i didn't know quite what to do with that because i don't fall of music out on the final song the euro zone it first when i was who i have a favorite movie and so my answer was the theme song for sound of

music but i didn't know what the song la song like that we have time and working on that's a week ago we were able to find the right time and working on my kenya with their which are some of the song called load up and that's vernon jackson brown eyed jackson browne the pound of music well i have to say on a list of a thousand things i would've thought that looks like we're going out with the sound of music was produced by mat her death until tonight for mike rezoning jeffries ari what are frantically twitter fans you can follow me on at sam zeff unlike other rhinos and it keeps track of them as she got sober in missouri he's at p t s ryan one other thing brian eyer kind of splitting up so to hear those miseries episodes are needed on itunes or google play and subscribe to state house when this area you don't have to do anything else to keep the campus at the

ces and santa might also be here with hiv at pierre presents with a joint presentation of kansas public radio and statehouse land i'm kate mcintyre do join us or kbr presents every week this time we bring new locally produced programs that help keep you informed and up to date shows about politics the arts books history current events speakers like former governor john carlin pulitzer prize winning columnist leonard pitts journalist bill moyers kansas authors likes their upright ski time ever all at our poet laureate eric mchenry it's a wide variety and it's only possible because listeners like you support it kansas public radio just wrapped up our fall membership drive we raised over two hundred sixty five thousand dollars money that goes directly into

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