An hour with Col Don Farris - Report from Sadr City

from the dole institute of politics at the university of kansas k pr presents an hour with colonel believe nonferrous i'm kay mcintyre in the past month the slaughter city section of baghdad has been the focus of an uneasy cease fire renewed violence is that the ceasefire collapsed and now new effort of governmental forces to establish control today on cape your present will hear from colonel ferris the commander of the first brigade into baghdad as part of the military surge strategy who is in charge of military operations inside or city intel has returned just two months ago or not there is the theory we believe the director of the doorway institute at the university of kansas for small you commanded the second brigade combat team can describe the components of that we want to be consistent june two thousand six fort bragg was going to modular then lieutenant general

caldwell runs the combined arms around her was the cgi was a change in command and we were asked to do you guys the taskforce remember day to go over iraqi battalions as to us support operations against al qaeda and we're in the process of doing that and brought this team back home after four months at the next team and it was during that christmas leave of december two thousand six the tour we were notified we would be the lead brigade of the surge and when each year now so we told soldiers also block leave and that task forces just gotten back very arresting they stand in the gym they're telling the troopers they were going back to probably six months could be a year of a just finished a hard fight and though we were notified on the twenty six of december lead elements moved out january second and then we close the foursome to wait by the

seventies a magnificent effort by the military to move three thousand plus man brigade with all of its containers and vehicles fire to kuwait and then to fall in on a brand new ari pre positions got equipment set brand new level three up armored vehicles with weapons cruiser crew countermeasures everything that you would want to visit a magnificent effort and what we found out in quickly moved up into baghdad is that they're they took our brigade again one task force or they're operating so we were rounded out from a battalion from the first brigade emily what south baghdad one went west and then the rest my brigade went into army insiders city and we have inherited a mechanized taskforce from germany one to six blues players they switched out halfway through with the cavs squadron from third

idea that we inherited a strike of details yet cannon as armored as infantry stryker a cross slice the entire american army all in one task force's was representative i think of every brigade has a bag everybody had appeased someone else's organization so much hilarity was certainly get tested in baghdad as the surge began as other units for helen and flowed into baghdad the iraqi similar test for his issues were going on in other units so falcon had their joint players with navy folks helping us with terror carried the fight we had done they're forced as helpers do forensics on some of the explosions at the emirates on alice we ended up om marines do and so cripple article support stuff we had air force dorner's traditional elite track by mere liaison for the air support for the formation and then we had the state department hasn't bowl farms

re was are embedded provincial reconstruction team leader senior career diplomat who was fantastic he was actually seeing her to me why rank and he was a tremendous coach and mentor to gavin was trying to figure out the security service and we often had many intellectual debates about projects courses process army guys are pretty high bound to you know meet an in state and detonated on time and even if you do it yourself lead to the mission than he was morna coaching process and let's get the iraqis to do this in so we had a very diverse organization approximately thirty five hundred chart what was the mission of the day provincial reconstruction teams what were they there to help and had invested in a general petraeus is overall bachmann terms of the surge when i'm eleanor and i think it's helpful just to describe what we walked into the initial strategy as opposed to you know was we were slowly moving

back to these larger fox news for operating bases to allow the registry forces take ownership of their own various neighborhoods in the city and allowed iraqis to me secretary rice was just to just overmatched capabilities used to significant when we arrived it was significant to violence and ongoing thousands of iraqis have been displaced many had been murdered there was a lot of wind up and go on and it had a dash shia desk was moving into sunni neighborhoods attack in the series and you had the sunnis support an outcry because el coyote was no one of the only entities that was a protector a solution had these elaborate fake suicide the debts being driven into star city and shia neighborhoods killing scores of people a lot of rubble car engine the streets and they

very clearly a war zone and all governments head start at the local level there's the council's had fled runoff leaders have been murdered so there was no local governments that one on when we arrived so lonely surge forces are trying to re establish security and work with iraqi security forces do retake these nhl they weren't sleep your tk man and helped us keep your tv embedded provincial reconstruction team thanks to forgive me on their hands challenge me all and he he helped us work through the complexities of building iraqi governments and you know i did not know how the almond eyed system worked first is the neighborhood and district councils other plug in the provincial councils who had the influence on the council representatives governor versus the mayor of baghdad and the the influence of the

tribal system in the religious aspect of it he was there to help us sort through that to begin these engagements and was he was remarkable tremendous teamwork i thought trump's deportment state and department of defense working together for tough problem you're the first brigade in a fortress or can you just describe the situation he found i was the situation different from your previous work well affable i have three and then we enter the surge the first thing jumped out at me was the sectarian violence was on these were to describe that was not going to have all when i had departed for my second tour in so that was a there was a new component and that was really i think as i left from the second tour the one thing we fear the most was the civil war aspect this game away from us and that did eventually occur and i think now we get it corrected but that really did jump out at me

did you think when you went back the second time and did you feel you're fighting an insurgency or you're fighting are cairo white house colonnade during the enemy in our sector with an audience our city and we had that both challenges we had an old on in mia was the sunni neighborhoods is the last location where saddam had been saying when the war starts and it was a lot of old money soon he's lived in this his neighborhood they had that the influence of our connections and the education level to provide material and moral support to these outside extremists who were operating from this enclave and when we started this in order to put together a suicide prevention had to bring in foreign fighters are willing to her wording this so suicide vehicle borne improvised explosive devices used and it had to bring in foreign fighters you had to bring in a munitions to construct these terrific

weapons yet have an early warning network in that people do reconnaissance and state tax returns and b it will communicate leadership tell you when and where you were going and this network was very mature very lethal very cunning and very hard to disrupt and destroy and we first got there and that was working in the india sunni sectarian on the shia side you had these e j kaye extra judicial killing these death squads who were ostensibly fine under the banner of the satirist trend but really just criminals killing their fellow citizens they had quite a network a shoddy organized by platoons and companies and has actually a military chain of command if you will rather loosely and these two groups were flooding out with each other and along the fault lines of many innocent people were being children

being driven out so we had to problem since sunni extremists shiite extremists and the initial guidance was siler city was a strategic piece of trying we did not want a repeat of two thousand and four we did not want to go in there in a big way with american forces in an end have the same large scale loss of life that that occur previously to isolate the pisa try ramona keep it from becoming a strategic problem well we focused on al qaeda which we thought was that which was the greater threat and then over the course of the year of the surge we significantly diminished upright and baghdad and now are able to turn more attention to the shia extremist who were getting my observation and my sister material support and funding from merck some elements in iran so we had two different to different process i read in one interview you haven't done are actually before leaving iraq that that you couldn't really tell if this is new

material the devices that are coming in are on earth the world of vice worldwide says he is are you learning picture all at dollar correct the record today was new material that's very detail as we can take the munitions in the lot numbers in a day says until a ride there on a mean just really and by the time we left in mid march know we discovered at recent cashing shop owner with her very large has below like flag and a brand new small arms machine guns while seven rockets at one one twenty mortar in the nation with the tubes all brand new all traceable than done you know no doubt and it was discussed as you're no doubt relate to you come in from iran and so it was

going on and then we would do we get hit with indirect fire attacks you did capture more friendly you need to do the forensics incident where this just been built right center i can understand how what your mission was what we were up against describe soderstrom is you know physically how big was that many people were there what they consist of more kind of a geographical definition of yes soon most of seen i don't remember the actual square footage shows a relatively small square off area of baghdad generally running from southwest to northeast on the eastern part of town i think that the five miles long and by three miles may be smaller the estimates were two point eight million live on top of each other in this very small dense area very impoverished little or no employment and social services dismantled from the violence the sectarian violence are not

operating because governments was not in effect at that point and an anatomy of the lesson they invoke so we were we were running close to about four million folks in the area where our brigade was operating very dance they are a model b o centric society just like we are in you know quintana look like yeah three nine thousand washington dc barbara marder trafficking corridor where it didn't look like our cars but what carson room la traffic and down so that to be all that i think ms o'connell you know you walked in you were taken aback by how dense this was only people there were how easy was the chorus everything was for the immediate hit union melt into the surrounding environment and tell us a little bit about who else water is and why it appears to be in conflict viewers well i'm not the expert on madame de an airbus per se or subject matter expert on that but he right now he is

the son of the mortar his father earl had tremendous influence i mean the great uncle who started this other trend in initially as i was taught to have a benevolent still it was rather a worn out of reach for many these impoverished shia levitt in siler city to have some sort of influence in the political process and of course both have been assassinated and now he is the son has inherited a leadership role but he has not he is not i've gone through the religious academic has an itchy the religious academic credentials year and so he's a figure by birthright not by formal religious credentials yet and yet the soccer history is very powerful is for many many years and as i was taught represented and you know a large group of the shia sect here in sautter

city and so there's still tremendous allegiance to the sartre and even though many may not agree with decisions that the son is making her is communicated but they still are very tight group insider city was so the one area in baghdad where you're concerned if you're operating they couldn't achieve a collective response very rapidly and if you are a careful could overwhelm when you need it to be a careful and operating there and understand the atmospherics as we conducting operations also it may not fully answered the question but a political figure of song love the way very significant religious figure has a religious affiliation often on in iran trying to improve you know increases their credentials as a religious leader so you mentioned he is mentioned i think i understood you correctly there was there's always a little bit of concern this morning at like you know once it gets substantial resources available yesterday a bomb right now

it doesn't happen in minutes but we had to be very careful operating in around sun city as we drive isolated we did not want to give them something a sport or strategic response within one hour create a catalyst event by doing something that would provoke a collective response in the end many of them all we were there many of the mainstream satirists really did not want this violence to continue and i think the year you know the willingness to return to greater levels of violence or they may have seen during the sectarian basis early on in two thousand for getting that motivating that was a little bit more of a challenge but there was still several thousand that could be rallying to you know i go on board or could be assemble to protests often but they also he became a politically clever at you know

these are non violent protest cities were protesting something the government down or against the us planned so that that they could do it they could achieve a collective response been a violent response you could see that coming and we're very carefully watched that to like a trigger very very closely we were the first brigade and as part of the surge and you are there only fifteen miles which is an exceptionally long but one arm you guys seem to have a lot less obsessed idiot know the surge worked well i'll speak to the surge working and in my battle space and what we operated their economy and cyber sphere describe for a what was like going we first got there when we left from the height of the violence that some are two thousand seven two the end of the year the attacks were down seventy seventy five percent at a level it was very manageable by the iraqi security forces and by the forces that were there

we head at a tactic of the one in the battleground neighborhoods and we would isolate them with concrete barriers we will only choke points with iraqi street forces and in this is very dense porous urban environment surrounding these neighborhoods with these barriers limiting access was colonel i created comedians and away and then inside we hired the young though the local males who are unemployed the concerned local citizens we work very closely with iraqi government to to get this program going hired and first test case for us was old autumn a harder about a thousand sunni mails to secure their own neighborhood and the shia led iraqi street forces we were months and months to do to get these two groups to cooperate to reconcile with each other and the concerned local citizens the the concept was would eventually become police are part of the

security establishment or worked in the government so it gave an avenue for many sunnis who had been disenfranchised and then these groups working together to sing a protectionist to once minutes on supporting these extremist al qaeda members began to turn on out tried and eventually run out of the neighborhood and we were able to cut significantly diminish the violence there in a lot of me in one swift today this works jason security we don't follow this up with getting iraqi government's peace to start planning in on the essential services can get the workers in here to look at the sewer to start picking up the trash can get fuel and that fuel stations and then what we discovered was very effective was these micro loans and micro grants provide to small business owners previously we had looked at other techniques that we're working but when you gave a thousand dollars to a small business owner and he gets stocking shelves and people had access to the markets again you could protect dominoes your normal things to start a distortion of

money stayed in the neighborhood and start to build its own momentum will that work very well in all i mean suddenly move to slake did sign saying there and parts of north and to the mixed neighborhoods of data over on the side of the canal i worked there and today much over the fighting earmarks are sitting this discussion of barriers is a lot more specific answer that now they are the best ones to do that i suspect we're doing a safe neighborhood concept in general the commerce districts our city and the bad guys know were doing and it was very effective and america toward the kitchen sink at the forces who were employing those tactics a very successful tactic and i saw from the beginning when we left markets flourishing essential services working the district council money out an assassinated the two previous heads of the council they see a sunni would not talking to look under the table or even meet

in on a nearby the time we left there openly meeting together they're laughing they're hurting each other and they're arguing about political decisions given just like one of our town hall meetings becker states and so many things were working and there were many positive signs in governance in economics and social services but typically in the security around that to me said the surge in our battle space was work you mentioned the concrete barriers are just set up comic or you're doing is showing some important folks through some of those barriers you were hit by sniper fire or what might happen well landed the fault line between the old army and wear ribbons beer in we were hit when we first started this so we were vilified in the press and in the arab press you know we were changing and people which was not the case and so we were trying to convince iraqis politicians this is actually a good

idea and this that the opinion was split fifty fifty when we started this closely were the wall i tell it because it separate you from a bad as a foreigner were your way announced the evil americans you mess up but over time iraqis came to appreciate this this this phase tactic that we're employing and on the day that day that i was wounded i were with the governor of baghdad began showing overdone try convincing that this would work and we need to support and are i think we get a support that day you know it's a bad neighborhood we need to do something and you know have a form of rehabilitation for us right back and by the way as a certain way i got an opportunity to go through the walter reed process to see how some tremendous medical professionals the army despite some bad press on administration and the doctors and the nurses and the folks who are caring for great young men and women who are wounded in and have some significant

you know challenges with rehabilitation actually wonderful professional medical care i could have asked for a better and i was very proud of what i saw as i visited soldiers and talk to them i know i did not meet one who ever told me he didn't appreciate kerry gain from these great doctors and surgeons are walter reed from the nurses in the staff that were done everything you could take care of them they'll be pretty brave young americans what would you consider crawled into brigades principal accomplishments well what as we started this thing you know we are the military power focuses on the security line and early in the fifteen months we were there forces of this team falcon that had captured almost twelve hundred insurgents of which nine hundred plus had enough evidence on that they were they remained in detention

when we left but none had been freed are likely only we had evidence of their crimes in the things it done to keep a system eventually get them or we hoped trial for iraqi judge so very proud of the number of evildoers the soldiers of the second brigade to go off the street that was number one number two a lasting legacy to the security piece was over the course of the year fifteen months we put in about forty three kilometers of these there's a concrete to separate the belligerence to protect the roads and to allow these neighborhoods to flourish and when you or removing surge forces in europe places with fewer forces never had more battle space the concrete it's there is a significant enabler to you know forces that columbine you don't have as much combat power and so that hard work i think it's helping the third brigade fourth id took over from us now sober pro there are proud of the

work we did was mr paul farms be in the governor's peace mediator and for the year fifteen months we are there the brigade worked very hard to keep soccer city from becoming a strategic issue and consuming us with the more combat power to tackle that when we need to focus on now tired and a lot of that hard work of work and reconciliation that was supported by the my state department or they're paul ryan and his team still remember please and then finally they getting a lot of people to talk to each other to improve that governance to get essential services working in the actual been very visible a result so we could see in the markets and the nightlife coming back in and a sense of normalcy so those lines of operation where some of his achievements as very proud of what they are the young people in september he achieve london great bandleaders and there

were conceived of brahms happen and you started talking about this because go and more to go out in the quality of why the average a rocky interior change in the month well when you started you know at night people knew no darting back and forced very distrustful you know when there would be a cyber attack or a bomb a lot of rubble and current in the street below like a war torn city by the end of this you see the last minute shops he sees the shelves are stocked there's tons of people in the streets that women wearing western clothes dressed up shopping in the markets with their children very much less afraid very crowded streets lots more traffic lots of traffic was good you know it was ugly lot less traveled road people in cars with gas and so you could see a significant visible difference by the time we left in late march

mr lippman absolutely i got to hop up before usually every artist and talk in school for advanced military studies and one is iran by going out there and getting them at all as impressive young people is your job as an increasingly a political education job and especially this particular assignment i'm kind of curious i mean were there any situations that you were never counted political where you are conducting negotiations with particular groups are constituencies and you know what did you guys go about in terms of reinforcing the message of this orchard and you're you're you're goals stated goals of securing iraq government pretty appalling for me i was a little bit about that was a first for the question yes the leaders in every level in the american army over their part in the marine corps or conducting engagements and then there are multi faceted

reconciliation the sunni don't like the shia within the shia sect is c barbour doesn't like the satirists on the strand of the iraqi army doesn't like iraqi police the centralized the sea dominated a comma not doesn't like the neighborhood and district councils and some political figures have to like the other guy for you know normal person on reasons there's multiple layers and facets of reconciliation and young lieutenants for a staffer for college markey says kenny nolan oh cs are they are conducting engagements at their level been one luke tarr your cd shake top two issues saying bring them to the table and drinking chai and an end and learning things i never had to learn and do a magnificent job coming commanders recreating neighborhood councils business council's the tank commanders bringing now you know the warring factions in a particular area together

to work out differences and tannin figure out in their own way how they were going to govern themselves and they move ahead and then at the brigade level and try to get a district councils to stand back up and release less corn on all time in siler city he was so unique because we didn't have at the highest echelons a way to talk to <unk> we didn't have a way to get to them the root of the problem so that you could have a dialogue and we can get this thing work in the political process but we're very determined that we were going to make this a political solution not a military solution so that you can work from the time and work from the bottom up and i we had a four prong strategy that the brigade leadership was pursuing we would we would try to talk to the tribal leaders and cyrus invite them to come to the table we could talk and individually but as they came together that you know the room was gonna go run out for targeting americans and i might get he might be intimidated or assassinations that was problematic

i would try to talk to the religious figures in our city and we actually made more progress with them than any other single group when gays we were talking to that this i needed to land of mosques in siler city and had access to this inner circle around motown outsider and so and they would come meet with us and talk we tried to engage almost directly they also mr sautter says the political infrastructure in place inside or c the shadow government if you will that has committees economic committees medical committees that run this sorcery and early as the beaver the offices the mortar shot and they have office buildings like local partners but it does administrative tasks on behalf of the people they used to be benevolent the lead guy in the whole mess of cyber city was somehow for it and weep tried many times to get into the table and work very hard to talk to his representatives who would represent go on the strand worker wait didn't quite get to him working very hard and then

finally was the district council this creation of the new iraqi government populated heavily by satirist who were heavily influenced by these are the three groups and strategy wasn't to talk all three of them all three big together to support their district council perhaps only imperiled industry council to engage in the political process and forcibly was a it was a time to a word they disliked us more or erroneous he led government and so this was the challenge and the top guy why wasn't that's not my level you've very used an enigma in her a rational actor time you know weren't quite sure what was going to come out of the mouth next term to influence the side are stranded we have a ceasefire that we had people who claim to be soccer's two or continuing the violence were they was you know about their was born you know and i thought that the senior leadership took on a very effective strategy of again trying to make this a political solution not a

military solution and convincingly it's convincing folks jay sean martin was not only individuals who committed the crimes and continue the cycle of violence and then their tours in the year i think this was resonating many mainstream satirists were telling us hey we like this ceasefire we agree with this you know this is a better route than the violence in and hope was we would build a real moment with this make this a political solution and get the sawdust in the seawater folks to reconcile each other now again on the market have dated an enormous flare up over basra and you know has resonates in this other cities so i hope that that gets worked out and we get back to have political dialogue or when that was my next question what do you think has caused this latest flare up that i think largely and i had to park i had departed so

i'm really not i did i needed to for those who are their down to give you more accurate answer i would i can only guessing and that's not fair so let me pass on that one or not you are a better more questions open about it all of your questions so how much and whether the iraqi military and the police might be me it's very reasonable event that they're going to be able to take a larger larger role than we're not of the ability to really get a large percentage of our troops out of iraq anytime soon halm that is there's many valiant where iraqis out there more and they're taking more casualties and we are many see tremendous bravery by iraqi leaders iraqi soldiers and iraqi are the two will speak again in my battle space that i was in the iraqi the two are accurate as anatomy or were capable and an operations

now they needed help and what we call you know the mystery a level of being able to sustain them they'll promote people pay them on time manage promotions get fuel to their combat outpost that was still a bit of a challenge but they simply physically they have a will they have the training and they had a leadership the capability to go in and do their own operations against criminals insurgents and they were intimidated in fact we want to keep up with them so that you know that was balanced in their approach and how they did that the national police were improving we had the one national police battalion in in my sector we had to detain the tank commander he participated in that shake kidnapping that you wrote about i'm an iraqi forces rescue them and then he was part of that but he was replaced by an iraqi patriot who work very hard with the national police they handled it for him to go than say the army to develop and then as we left and we i

think we had detained a number of corrupt police chief steward and replaced by folks who i think are warning give our actual chance and doing their best to distance themselves from intimidation from the fringe a shell might hear from a hawk on extremist and working hard trying to build the police forces but we have much longer to go with the police says that's a long term effort this was not their culture as it is part of the police force enforce law order and indian and the rule of law the army did that and of course we are trying to to get the police to do this like this is going to be a cultural change for them but more so it would be for us and then of course there is a capacity piece of this is growing a capacity over time it will take a lot of you know leader energy from american forces over there to tell me that i am one final question it's more related to begin your personal experience rather

than cut of a pair of generic overall question but there's a lot of talk about the army really being stretched thin because of all the conflicts because now having a volunteer force in everything and i'm curious what you saw were two jurors in your own experiences with some of retaining sommelier really top level leaders is the army retain enough of those people and left at least from the experience you do personally witnessed i had met my level when i seen it again i don't see the the overall warming trend story or have you that fifteen months of my country that's a good thing that's far as hormones or partially was hard on families but they were murky conditions and we needed to surge to deter messing around and i understand why we had ended that by why we did that what we had to do in my family understood i think many many of those on my team understood why we had to do this or nation called we need to answer the call i certainly join others in

saying it get back to year and hopefully less is is because better but that's a policy decision but at my arm and counseling and talking to young leaders who have faced their second and third tour there young i wanna start a family and they may have been in the army for years needle or twice there's a lot of pressure at home is this the way this is gonna be this is not we and many of them sign that after nine eleven they knew what they were going to be god bless him home but they're you know they're looking for a little breathing space here so that they can have supportive wife and so those are the conversations that i have with male leaders in and in my realization in and what we might expect and then there's incentives in the army's very very attuned to this room mindful is very concerned about it and work on policies and programs in a simon options to try to tackle this tough problems while we continue to sustain the effort and i keep the pressure on students fly like little bit of a

question or affairs thanks very much time we get the impression from reading about and see if it interact with the culture of corruption that bribery is a way of doing business in america work on the antithesis of that so i'd like you to comment on two things one is give us the real story of one of those vignettes about the grant's what's the specific specific one and how did we as americans have to change your culture to to colorado a grant or how we think about that the that clear one the challenges for violators are not trained to right contracts in order to you know in my professional and i don't get training on writing contracts and how you

q and a day and in this environment you found yourself with a certain dollars to jumpstart something's writing contracts and working with iraqi contractors to complete a task where were you sir seat and helping out the mercer response commanders responsible and know them as yours was with good night yeah i'm a moment here i don't recall that it is a pot of money that was given to commanders that the weekend to get very quickly to certain thresholds are too to work civilian projects and so you want iraqi contractor who put the money in an economy of employer folks and the end of what what you know what we learned was so some of these are folks are wooden and fleeces really would

say we're going to do certain things to drag this process i'm not going to work the way we want to and they made this little start up costs and just didn't work out and you know he would but then you lose time you know you want that done the standard that you last time and so he had to be very careful in and will happen is the neighborhood that you're trying to help out a good man and frustrated and they want un were discovered was bringing in the process like that neighborhood council talk lead contractor tell you should be doing the contract in actually get older price we will learn some lessons with that but that corruption could occur in those types of vignettes but with the mark ronson my progress this was a managed way below that company commanders and are civil affairs folks and they these were folks who are trying to you know issue story clothing store or you know small mom and pop general store and convenient shop and that for a small amount of money a

thousand dollars that would be enough capital for businesses to get jumpstart of the stock the shelves to fix the place up a little bit and most are things going so that is approved be enormously successful on the loans that were providing i was briefed by the dust bowl farms be most of them are getting paid back they've they've been very conscientious about this they they know that this girl this is a i think a very important thing it's being done and then there's a there's been a lot of positive feedback on both grass the loans that they were supporting over there for the small business owners that that answers the question i'm thirty four hundred troops come home a couple weeks to the first drawdown of the surge troops right do we have an update on the ground that's not accurate but that's not it was the first creative the search and we were the first to come back in some replacement yes but again five surge brigades and then he added this

is very hard to explain to everybody but five surge brigades go over when they returned they are not replaced one for one what's going on is you have let's say in an area where there were once eight brigades now you divide that by up to wear six brigades cannot wessel yes some ways taken over the battle space and that's what you hear people talk about i mean i was replaced by third brigade fourth id has he took my battle space and then some and have fewer forces but operationally if you look at the poll numbers of brigades five to win the surge as they come out five brigades are there not that feel so that didn't yell at the operational plan or not not the rug and explain this but i kept my level i know the math i was not replaced one for one on the ground i was replaced as hard to explain what that way might to enjoy music in a rack we still have maintained tribbles about the same as it would cost up to the

surge now or drawing down its nationwide not press and long it's our savior was an eternal drawdown of forces in my sector not an insider city when we had x give the figures un x numbers of companies operate in a battle space in my left commander took over for me and obvious i see all of these people many had much less forces in his combat team and i have a very intimate item dancers my question was actually know do we have enough boots on the ground right now in iraq too maintain security control we want to do that's not a question i can answer because i don't have visibility of what's going on throughout iraq i had visibility of what's going on of mice sector and so units and it's like a mosaic each little brigade that space was different in armenia i was prepared to recommend that we could draw down forces and army we've achieved a tremendous little securities shops are working but then we have a

strategic problem of solar cities and the recommendation is we need to shift those forces to work on that promise so yes a drawdown in one district perhaps surge in another and this type of cactus is going on all over baghdad and all over iraqi and were you can draw down commanders recommended worried god our leadership we shift and someone is doing that calculus you know at the operational level and saying here's what we think we can do his fourth drawing down forces and i am very much trusted leadership or they're an authoritarian they can do with x number of brigades and i trust exactly what they're saying because they're looking at this and give the feedback any input from commanders and i knew that commanders are very very candid and colleges like they saw and every day that i and i could trust what youre being told and what you know what you know what feedback your game was going to be very carefully considered as they went through their calculus of how to do this cross country you're near strategy seventeen brigades to fifteen

brigades we thought that we could move to these large for operating bases around the city and from their operate from a lily pad if you will than it as a forcing mechanism that the registry forces to stand up and in lebanon sectarian violence overmatched that so it was a cancellation didn't quite work since we had to go back and start over you the conditions are worse at that time it works almost commanders over their second third rotation you can bet they're very mindful of what didn't quite work less times be looked at very hard this time that much i can probably assure you have now the actual catalyst the conditions are not qualified to tailor that that's fair enough and in fact what you have first of all the training and had to

pay the training and education are now more fighters to prepare them for this new really complex mission must be an awesome task how well as the training going well i think initially a lot of us felt we could've done a better job of coming back from the initial experience is and passing on those lessons learned talking to the training community and our world class combined arms training centers and try to replicate you learned that you face and i've seen with the second rotation that were doing that better and better and better in fact i'm here at leavenworth at the invitation of the joke my counselor newton john paul well as a guy who just came out of this to come back and talk to the the majors are being trained to go over here and be the staff officers in his next formations the tiny brigade commanders who want to pre commit course who are going to command these next four nations and the doctrine

folks that are here are the historian folks america's history folks are here and various entities in you know our combined arms trade are combined arms center here today to tell story the brigade pass on the lessons learned and talk about cable is it that we need to improve and it refined so the process is a doctor and so were adapting your jacket is this violent acts were definitely do we always get it quite right the intellectual energy is an icy going into this and this is the program so here tonight is bringing america back to do that first question centered time in siler city in january to march away rather than the structure at pax an instructor fuel lines electricity source or mrs how did that change and houses a tasking collected by officials or the tax code lower were kind of

electricity rates again now compared when you first got there a large portion of cyber city he we are not operating in day today we're in we're into major battleground neighborhoods to the southwest or not in the northern portion of my time we were not so i saw exactly how social services and there is his work and in there there were americans run around and they're gathering those metrics our short answer is probably can tailor the feedback we're getting was it wasn't working the iraqi dc government lovers budgets for it and there's folks mostly going there because this friction between the two if you were of sirens contractor united in their to do work for you not only to finish the work and so i think that that that process was that was not working very well in areas where we were operating day to

day we were free were able to support the trash being picked up to let the workers get in there and workers sewage problems brand new water plant on your son's soccer city that was an almost issues are working on that was being brought to completion we were working on electrical wiring distribution of the grain there and where we were able in siler city two two to work with the neighborhood council and handsome cooperation we were achieving results so it was a mixed bag i believe you made a statement that you're strong evidence that iran was supplying weapons to the insurgent forces there we captured cache is with munitions that had markings clearly indicated that mr indyk my question is what's being done about that and what is

the future impact of something occurring a vase i can speak tactically what that was done an audience are saying we're going after those networks of facilitate dirt bringing it into baghdad to use against american forces protect their own citizens so we are very much focused on the analogy i would use is like the fbi were searching for individuals network we're seeing that margin over operations in the city it's going after individuals who who we gather evidence on that we know are doing this and i'm going to capture them and bring them to justice and so those that we have evidence on that are doing this is we capture folks and we're able to practically questioned him and ultimately interrogate them would get information on who might be supporting that would pursue that there's other ways we go about that end we were attacking this bible at his network's tackling about

space the strategic issue it is but my love and you know there were discussions while i was there to fifteen months with representatives from iran and that that is of a political or strategic political issue where both my parents several more question yes thank you for your service i'm just fascinated you are eighty second airborne from the world of the airborne get into this kind of duty and secondly we didn't gel so sharon i just had no idea that they did this kind of duty on a second how do you feel about a sudden withdrawal of the troops from iraq well that is a positive decision of our elected leadership and as a soldier my will support whatever decision is

it samantha show will stephens from the news in maumee fisted market means you've got this automated sell the north carolina law changes marc mealy paisley a professionally on rejoining uber guide to rehabilitation to see antelope forty five my question is what will enable the concrete barriers to be removed or dc them are many in place indeed what we were now i don't think it's a definite that will be a political season for the iraqis when we started we were heavily vilified for doing this you're talking about a lot of me in our thumbs up on a wall we like the barriers you keep the bad guys out life as being here he would get a gated community you go to bed at a mixed neighborhood sunni kurd shia who are living in their thumbs up as we engage folks lee says what they tell us we like this but why you know if you're doing in america i knew

were to overtime people and continues to have to drive a long way around you know there's going to be a town council meeting and we're going to open up in we're going to change the way business is done i suspect that political process neighborhood by neighborhood will go on and will create more openings will eventually remove the war and this will be a slow process over time the good thing is there is there now they're they are providing a huge effect on our mia and around sorcery and we can keep america long as we need to keep his last dam all the global crisis continues to work so i think it's a definite there they're not it's not a war they're just barriers and they can be moved as quickly as we put a man on iraqis arabia didn't feel very strongly about i think this recession scary situation warrants doing and i suspect it'll occur they fall where they differ users colonel the news is reported nearly up a large portion of the edge gave classified the city and why the country won the war began and

kind of wondering after you've established some security now have have that educated class began to return did you see a boy you were there and how has that impacted the provincial reconstruction teams work i can't give you a good answer by category educated class per se when we got there many homes were rated an ally of these people had fled other countries syria saudi arabia where they want as we left more more these people were calling family members who stayed behind in asking what situation and they were making their decisions are pursed most asians to return and more more people were returning it and re occupying their homes by the time we left i don't have exact numbers get into the census harder tell the chicken you could physically see homes filling up and people come back and neighbors so yes people returning we're not visited a class could be precise and forth like a master of that glamorous and

forgiveness a chance to do the program and not going to be a crawl straub horror up for helping him please the town hall well i'm much we appreciate it elected again most importantly though i ask all of you to join me in thanking colonel first for speeding it feels from listening to philly soul institute of politics talk with criminal billy dawn fear as the commander of military operations in solder city as part of the troop surge in iraq it was recorded may seventh two thousand eight at the dole institute the recording engineer was tubby smith i'm kay mcintyre k pr presents is a production of kansas public radio at the university of kansas next time on tv are presents the director of central intelligence general michael hayden haden spoke to kansas state university this spring as part of their land and lecture series join us as

kbr presents cia director general michael hayden eight o'clock sunday night on kansas public radio