News Addition; 739; Special Episode

James here. News edition is made possible in part by the members of channel 13. And by the Peter W. Baldwin program fund.

Is Dallas losing out to its growing aggressive suburbs? If so, whose fault is it? The surrounding communities or big D itself? And what can be done about it? If anything, I'm Bob Ray Sanders. In the next hour, we'll discuss those and other questions generated by a recently released report called Dallas First. We're calling tonight's program Dallas versus the suburbs that fight for survival.

Here to help us sort through the issues is the studio full of the area's top political, business, education, and community leaders, including the mayor of Dallas and the mayor's of four suburban cities. But before we begin our discussion, let's take a look at the state of the so-called greater Dallas area. Dallas, the seventh largest city in the country, the second largest in the state. It is the hub of the highly touted Metroplex. The city is often publicized as a chic yet robust metropolis with no end to its growth in sight and a place with no fences, where opportunity has no boundaries. But the Dallas First report points out that there are limits here. The city is landlocked in more ways than one. It is surrounded by incorporated municipalities, five of them with the population of more than 100,000 each. In fact, during the past 10 years, the city of Dallas has grown at a much slower pace than its suburbs.

The report shows that for two years during the last half of the 1980s, Dallas actually lost population. And while the suburbs continue to gain population, they also continue to gain new businesses. Although the headlines often proclaim that a new business shine is relocating to Dallas, more often than not, that new businesses coming to Irving, or Plano, or Richardson, or any Metroplex town except Dallas. The Dallas First report concludes that in spite of the city's perceived dynamism, the city of Dallas has a lot of problems, and that its real competition is not with Houston, Atlanta, Denver, Phoenix, or Orlando, but with its own suburbs. Let's start right away and go to Forest Smith, who is the senior partner of Arden Haddon. You commissioned this report. Your firm did? Why? Well, it was a singular premise and a singular purpose that calls it to do this, Bob Rae. Our premise was that the Dallas area we believe is the greatest place in America to work and live.

This is where we want to stay. The purpose of the report was simply to analyze what we think is a growing concern about the status of the economic life of the central city. Well, let me just put it very bluntly, too. Is there any other ulterior motives that we should consider? Let me tell you why. Okay. Someone suggested to me that this report is really your platform for running for mayor. That will come as a big shock to my family and to my partners. Let me say that that's a legitimate question because it has been raised, but the good thing about the report so far is that it's been reasonably free of vindictiveness and ill will. And that's the good thing that this report, I think, is generated. I think the far more important question, Bob Rae, is not who is going to govern Dallas in the 90s, but what kind of city are we really going to have to govern? Well, you know, it seems to me that the report suggested that because all these suburban cities that surround Dallas and Dallas can get a chance to annex all this land at one time, that that's a bad idea. What's wrong with Dallas being surrounded? Anybody?

Not a thing. Not a thing. Mayor, go ahead. Because I think as the Metroplex that we are, that we all benefit as a matter of fact of the October cover story of Fortune Magazine said that the Dallas for Earth Metroplex is the best place in the United States to do business. And I think we gained from one another, but one thing is for sure. It would be unreasonable. It certainly is not a good idea that Dallas not be interested in its own future. Because Dallas has to stay healthy. And the best thing that Dallas can do for this region is to maintain a healthy economy in a healthy tax base. Even if the economy and the growth of the economy is outside the city limits of Dallas, which is what this report suggests. Well, we certainly have to grow inside the city of Dallas, but also let's not forget that Dallas benefits from the suburbs just as the suburbs benefit from Dallas. But our goal now is to find places where we can keep developing.

And right now we're concentrating on the southern sector. How many people from Dallas, at least, really believe that Dallas benefits from the suburbs? Mr. Evans, you say you do? I certainly do. Okay. Any what way? I mean, the perception was, at least when I read it, that the suburbs are taking and Dallas is losing. Well, when JC Penny used that as an example, moved to the Metroflex. It happened to move to Plano, but Dallas will benefit from that move. And there's no question about it. You won't get the tax base, but look at the revenue sources that will come into Dallas from the JC Penny move to this area. Well, if they'd moved some other city, who wouldn't have any opportunity? Mr. Lipscomb, do I? Thank you, with all due respect to Plano Mayor Evans. I take issue with that. And you'll notice here on page 15, since 1970, Dallas has only had one major corporation that was Diamond Shamrock. I think Dallas is getting a short end of the stick from the suburbs, who I think have a very parochial type view.

And it comes to Dallas. Also, the Dallas partnership and others awesome. Call their names on this. But whose fault is it that the companies went to the suburbs? It's the groups that Dallas has looked forward to to help like they have been in the past. These companies, when they come to use the word Dallas, but the major companies have all relocated to the suburbs. Every one of them, 29,000 jobs, and only 4,000 in the inner city. Yeah, but when one part of the area benefits the whole benefits. You can say anything you want to say, but the facts and the stats reveal something. I get into debate with him, but I don't agree with that at all. Okay, well, how many people, I mean, I assume most of you read it or have some good idea what the report says. I mean, you agree with the stats and the facts. I mean, is that debatable? Do we accept that for what they ask? The facts in this report. Sure.

So we all, we don't say this, so Mr. Lipscomb is the right. The job is what he's saying. Yes, let's cover this. Primarily, I think that we have to backtrack a bit. Had that not been Dallas a strong viable city, the suburbs would not have been able to grow. Yes. The suburbs grew as a result of people flying outside when we had school integration, busing, and those racial climate that was here, people began to flee from the city of Dallas because they thought we, as a people, were taking over. We were not taking over. Those same people who fled to the suburbs, still coming to Dallas to work. So I think that the suburbs have been able to grow because of the attitude that I said it. And I think that our city's attitude is changing now. And this report reflects some of those things that we need to change attitude. We need to set a tone. Yeah, let me ask this before we even get to, because the bourbon mayors, I know are waiting to come in here. What about the title of this report, Dallas First?

Does that suggest anything to you? Well, it doesn't. Don Hicksett's common sense. Go ahead, mayor. Well, it's on Hicksett's attorney. The title, Dallas versus the suburbs, I think that's Miss Nomor. I don't think it's, we're not an adversary. Okay. I'll be playing for that. Okay. But Forest Smith has to be playing for Dallas First. Okay. Well, and I appreciate that. And I've been to some of the other meetings with Forest and other groups here. But you have apparently the person that wrote the report was not an elected official. Because if he were, well, and he's up here saying Dallas First, well, this pen says Mesquite First. Because they elected me mayor of Mesquite. And I have to look out for that particular group. Now, this suit, I did happen to buy in downtown Dallas. And I'll go to the summer musicals. And we pay for that and everything else. One of the largest, our second largest employer in the city of Mesquite is AT&T. They're one of the largest contributors to the Myerson and various things like this. And you pay sales tax on that suit.

And that came back to the city of Dallas and got me to reallocate, I assume. So, we do get benefit from those people who come into town. And when we talk to industry, we sell the whole Dallas Metroplex. Yes, if it comes to competing with Garland or Richardson to get it to locate our Dallas, to get it to locate in Mesquite or their city, we're going to sell ours first. But we do sell the Metroplex because it's a good location. And isn't the competition among all of you healthy? That's one of the problems that there is no entity in the city of Dallas that is working to bring business to Dallas. The Dallas Chamber could bring business to the Dallas area. That's right. But not strictly to Dallas. That's right. I'm not saying they're right or wrong. I'm saying there is no entity in Dallas that brings business only to. It works only to bring the business to Dallas. I'd like to comment on that. I'm chairman of the Chamber of Commerce. Obviously, I have a vested interest in that issue. But let me tell you that of our Chamber of Commerce, 82% of our members are in the city of Dallas. And we have 7,500 members.

We have a very large chamber. Maybe the largest in the country, I'm not sure. And in fact, many of our programs that our Chamber undertakes are devoted to the city of Dallas. If you start looking at the things we do and examine us by what we do, we do a huge number of things for the city of Dallas. Our economic development group. Now, if you look at economic development, you have to deal with the question of the customer. Any business has got to deal with the customer. And when the customer comes in, he may hit the Dallas Partnership Economic Development Branch of the Dallas Chamber of Commerce. He may hit that, and he's got a list of things that he wants to look at. He's driving the, he's in control of the situation. The Chamber, the cities are not in control. The customers in control. He looks for pieces of information. He makes decisions based on the information fed him. I can tell you for certain that he gets a very fair shake at the city of Dallas. There's no doubt about that. Well, was the timing of this report wrong? Because I'd heard from some people that we were beginning cooperation. We were beginning to understand each other.

And suddenly, the report comes out to suggest we ought to be fighting for our own piece of the pie. And speaking of the guy who wrote it, here he is right here. Go ahead. Bob Ratten, there's been a lot of misinterpretation of the report. The title, Dallas first, really refers to what the city of Dallas needs to do on its own. To write political and economic problems. Starting at home or starting at home. Indeed, 75% of the stuff we talk about in that report is really looking at what the city of Dallas needs to do to put its own house in order so that the suburbs will be more inclined to cooperate with the city. But the basic bottom line issue is one of jobs and income and tax base. And that's where the city of Dallas is losing out. Okay, why don't we take a look at another piece of information from that report. And then we'll come back and talk some more. As more new businesses go to the suburbs, so do new jobs and a larger tax base for the suburban cities. During the last 20 years, the city of Dallas lost more than 25,000 manufacturing jobs,

while the suburbs had significant gains. And according to the Dallas First Report, in the next 10 years, the employment trends will continue to favor the communities which surround Dallas. For example, between now and the year 2000, the projected average annual increase in employment for the city of Dallas will be only 1.2%. Whereas for Garland, it will be 1.8%. 2.9% for both Carrollton and Irving. 3.8% for both Plano and Richardson. And a 5.4% increase in employment for Addison. Last year alone, according to the report, 29,000 jobs were generated in the Metroplex through business relocations and expansions. But only 4,600 of those jobs were in the city of Dallas proper. The others went to Los Galinas in Irving, the Richardson Plano area, center port near Dallas Fort Worth Airport, Fort Worth's New Alliance Airport, and Ellis County, the site of the proposed superconducting superglider.

We are excited about having the SSC in Texas. In addition to the overall job loss, those coming into the workforce in the city tend to be less skilled than those leaving Dallas for the suburbs. To help offset the loss of tax revenue, the report recommends some form of metropolitan tax-based sharing, where Dallas would benefit from increased property valuations caused by new business which relocate in its neighboring cities. OK, so we go ahead, Mr. Locke. I think this is relevant here at this point. You're talking about a shrinking tax base here within the city of Dallas. It's being eroded. It's quite obvious to all of us. Look at Southwest Airlines in Lovefield. In a very few weeks, think about this. We as mandated public officials are going to have to take a vote against Lovefield, the inner city.

Look around Lovefield. Look at all the businesses that were once thriving businesses that are now being boarded up. Pressure. OK, I got the mayor. I got three council members from Dallas. Can we blame that on somebody from the outside, though? Mr. Bartos? I can speak that particular issue. Everybody that really has been close to it knows it, and he is good for excuse, or she is good for little else. But, you know, you get a report card in business. It's very direct. In Dallas, it's now very direct. I don't think we can blame Plano when we have by policy and by Chamber Report Card. By Dallas Partnership Report Card, you show it. Our tax base this year shows it. You don't have to get mad at anybody. What we ought to do is roll up our sleeves and realize Dallas has failed to sell. Dallas has failed to have a growing tax base, and these problems are solvable.

And the fact is, week after week after week, month after month after month, we ignore those things. And I don't have any problem at all with what the suburbs are doing to grow. But I have a problem with as a decision by Dallas, again and again, not to do anything about its condition. And then turn up here and say, well, we want to share somebody else's tax base. Okay, I want to get to that tax base. But before we share that, Mayor Strauss, that is, it seems that the report was saying that, wait a minute, here we got all of this loss of tax revenue. And we don't even want to lower the, or go out and borrow money to do the things that we know we need to do. And we fear risking the AAA bond rate and the sacred, it's a sacred cow. And we don't make the right decisions in Dallas to do the right thing. How do you answer that? Well, we will always sell bonds when it's economically the right thing to do. We're never going to spend money that we can't afford to spend. The AAA bond rating is a byproduct of fiscal responsibility and policymaking and fiscal responsibility and management.

We are the only major urban city that has a AAA bond rating by both rating agencies, moodies and standards and pours. And just one second, last week I was in Italy and I read a report from USA Today, which had done a study and said, where are the best places for business to relocate? And Dallas was one of them. And the first thing they mentioned is the AAA bond rating. It inspires confidence in this city. Okay, Mayor Spont, you've been trying to get something in here. Go ahead and come to Mr. Perry and then up to Ms. Colton. Well, one of the perceptions that I think that might be mistaken from the report and perhaps you're leading in caption that we are growing at the expense of Dallas. We're not captivating on Dallas's problems. We're captivating on our successes because when you're talking about the shrinking base, it is not the companies that are moving out of the city of Dallas into Richardson. Our expansions and relocations have been from areas outside the Dallas metropolitan area.

And when it comes down to sharing tax base, we are sharing. There is a great cooperative effort in dark. And few people realize that as an example, the sales tax portion of our contribution to dark out of the Richardson is equivalent to the entire Edmonds tax on our entire industrial base. That is all the businesses within Richardson. And so that is a big sharing and it's taken a lot of load off Dallas by taking away their burden of Dallas transit. Okay, go ahead. They stand on the infrastructure every day to see how many people come into Dallas to work. People have been taking money out of the great city of Dallas to build up the suburbs. Now that the suburbs have been built up, they become a place to be when people want to come into town. One thing is fed to other. You have to realize that you wouldn't be where you are unless you had the dollars taken from Dallas to build what you have out there. That's just a reality of life. So what do we do? Do we tax all those workers from the suburbs coming in?

No, we create something that is going to do something for Dallas first. For instance, like a tax base enhancement policy where you make a cost benefit analysis when you award in contracts to see whether the tax stabilization, the multiplier effect to the anticipated jobs that are going to be created out way and benefits you in the immediate short run more than the lowest bid. Things like that. Bob Ray, you asked what this report says. And what Bud put in this report is the statistical facts that indicate what we've already, the EDS, Fridolay, MPEC, South and Life Insurance Company, recognition equipment, Rockwell International, the Dallas Cowboys, and on and on have already moved out of our city. That we have, as from an economic standpoint, we have three things. Keep the business we have, expand and grow new businesses from within and to attract businesses to our community. But what we have is a hole in the bucket here that we've seen this enormous exodus. And so that's one of the things we're talking about is we need to look at Dallas first to save our own businesses that we have in our city right this minute. Twenty some odd thousand jobs have gone out the door. High paying good quality jobs have not been replaced with a like amount of jobs.

Okay, so you say you really got to compete more with these suburbs? No, no, no. What we have to do is, Bob Ray, is we need to go and compete with ourselves. We need to focus on Dallas. We need to focus on Dallas crime rate. It's education system. It's economic base. We need to focus on opening up our airport. We need to go over and focus on having our transportation systems. We need to fix Dallas first. I feel that as far as I'm concerned, I have a dual situation. I grew up in Dallas and now I live in Plano and have for 14 years. But I think when you look at the investor, simply because of business opportunity and are going to communities. And the reason for that is that in the city of Dallas, when you had in the past many of the developers and investors who were investing in the suburban cities, it was thought to be a very, very good thing. When you have a transfer of your population and wind up with your most high-tech quality, capable employees in a certain area, that makes a very strong attraction for business. And I think that when you look at the outpour, not only of dollars, but when you have aggressive people going into new areas, you can't blame them for being just that.

So I think we have a good money from Dallas, from Dallas businesses, from Dallas governmental units, county of Dallas, city of Dallas. All that money was made where they could build those houses, where they could compete and attract these people with money from Dallas. And didn't Dallas help that growth in the North by over-developing the Northern portion of Dallas? The first thing that was done, that was a boogie man created in the Southern Sec, that's right, because it was told that that's not the place to be. So as Dallas land-based began, occupied the real estate community, soon Dallas began a market-buried move north. As your people generate that area, again, when you have successful people trying to buy the only homes that are available, because you're not building a home in the city anymore, you can't blame them for wanting to go out and make the best city that they can. I think in Plano, that's what we've done. Let me go to the mayor as he's been waiting for him to come. There is not a person in this room, nor anybody in the suburbs that will disagree with Mr. Burger or Mr. Bartos.

We all believe Dallas must survive, better than survive, thrive, because all of us are very much hooked into that. We are a part and a link of that to say that we are the beneficiary, and you are not, is very unfair. We didn't do those kinds of things, they just came to us, and we are the beneficiary of that as a result. We don't want Dallas to hurt, we want Dallas to thrive, believe me, we do. If you really believe that, what do you say to Mr. Smith and Mr. Weinstein about sharing some of those things? We already share those dollars. I have three major corporations in my community that give over $5 million to the arts and culture in Dallas. EDS, JC Penney and Frito Lay, they give collectively $20,000 to the City of Plano. Is that not sharing? Limited, that's not limited at all. This is the Southern sector of Dallas, it's a very limited benefit in this match. Well, it's still the City of Dallas.

It's coming in, it's money coming in. It's coming in for home. It's a better fit for home. I got to go ahead and speak for themself. I would like to speak to a particular issue in the report that it seems that the number one problem in the report, one of the number one problems is education in Dallas. Now, this is a hot theme for me. Are you going to get on that? I can't get it. Can I ask you to hold that thought because we're getting to it, believe me. Okay, well let me say something else. As the chairperson of the City of Plano Commission, a lot of companies are moving to the suburbs because they do not have to go through the rigid, vigorous, bureaucratic, activism planning that we have to have here. Now, I'm not saying that planning is bad, it is very good. But when you are inviting someone to your city, if they want to plant a 10-foot tree, if that's how they can afford, why do you impose a 20-foot tree?

Because the difference in the dollar makes a difference. So, therefore, I think that we need to come, and that is not in this report, but I see it every day. Well, that's something that the council can change, can't it? Maybe I haven't ever spoken to them, are we? Okay, well, you just spoke to four of them right here. Bob Ray in response to that, Garland has one of the strictest landscaping ordinances that there is in the county. And when it says 24-tree, that's what we expect the developer to do. In relation to another comment that you made earlier that all of the people were leaving Garland and the suburbs to go to work in Dallas, we have as many people commute to work in Garland as we do go to other areas outside of Garland to work some 30,000, almost equally. Now, in 1985, the city of Dallas passed a bond program for like $245 million, I believe, for street repairs. You have currently spent 55% of that money for infrastructure and street repairs, where the city of Garland in 1987 had the second largest capital improvement project in the state of Texas, only second to San Antonio.

So, it's not as you are stating in your comments. That's one of the things we've got to get away from is the dialogue of this meeting. And we've got to talk about what we can do to structure avenues to help city of Dallas and help the suburbs, because this is absolutely one region. And that's the way we've got to think, and that's the way we try to think in Garland. Okay, let me come down here. That's a good point, because infrastructure improvements are things that city of Dallas has put off for decades. And right now, we have a good portion of our real estate that cannot be developed as it's zoned. And I think that hurts the city of Dallas, and people who'd like to come and build factories and operate businesses here. What I'm really hearing is that Dallas is problem, really is, Dallas is problem so far.

And maybe this report was in error by suggesting that the suburbs were there? No, no, no. In current terms, it's Dallas is problem, but the way it got to be, Dallas is problem was a system that was established to exclude. If you would understand the education system, you would understand that the federal judge let all these suburbs out. Therefore, you couldn't have an effective education plan that would educate all the kids. You could understand that the desegregation in housing has the same basis. So what we're saying is that please recognize the history that got us there. We're not pointing the finger and saying that you have to solve our problems. What we're saying is that we're getting ready to deal with our problems, and we want you to understand that and accept it as such. But I heard far as Smith tell the downtown rotary, though, I think it correct me if I quote you wrong. Wait a minute, what we've got to do here is we missed a chance to annex. So the next step is metro government? What I said was that what's going on in Dallas is not new to America.

Many urban cities in the east have gone through this and the rust belt and central cities have decayed because the tax base is totally eroded. I said there are two ways that cities that have escaped that have dealt with the issue. The first one was through annexation where you took in the areas so that your tax base could grow into that. So such cities as San Antonio, for example, are co-terminus with the county. San Diego is co-terminus with the county. So their tax base is set and therefore cannot flee to the suburbs. That's one way. The other way is the regional corporation, both in the terms of sharing such things as police, fire, health care, environmental issues, reducing cost. The idea of concerning the tax sharing base is just one issue. That's not the only issue that we're talking about. Regional corporation is the other way. I think that the suburbs and the city could work together because I think it is in their best interest to see us deal with these issues. Okay, bud. One thing we haven't discussed and I think is an important difference between the city of Dallas and the suburbs. The city of Dallas has some extraordinary expenditures, particularly on the human services side of the ledger that the suburban jurisdictions just don't have to make.

And without getting into the history, Mr. Higgs mentioned the housing desegregation suit. That's going to cost the city of Dallas close to $120 million to settle. But it's a regional problem. I don't think the suburbs see Dallas housing as a regional problem. It is a regional problem because traditionally the suburbs have not participated in fair share housing programs. But beyond that, we've got all these expenditures looming on the horizon against a shrinking tax base. And it's really scary. If you look at the latest numbers from the appraisal district, we've kind of come out of this long dark night. The metropolitan area is growing again. Dallas County is growing again. But the city of Dallas continues to lose its property tax base. But last year for the first time in four years, the property tax base and the suburbs grew. Okay, and we have, that's why we're going to face a tax increase, perhaps. Mayor, right?

Well, there's no question Dallas has got to do better for itself. Talking about a hole in a doughnut, though. If Dallas doesn't do well, there's not going to be any doughnut. Because, really, the suburbs depend on Dallas. You know that. I mean, there's no question about that. But at the same time, we gain from the suburbs. So Dallas's job now is to increase that tax base. However we can. And we're working very, very hard. I couldn't work any harder. I don't think the members of our council could work any harder. We're bringing in international investment. We are now working on Southern development. I think the super collider is going to have a tremendous impact on the southern part of the city. But tell me this, Mayor. Honestly, how do you feel when you fly all over the country and the world selling Dallas and trying to get a company to come here? And it says, okay, we're coming and it goes to Plano. Well, I don't feel good. I'd rather go to Plano than go someplace away from Dallas any day. Any day. And I give my best trying to sell Dallas. Okay. The very best I have. And we've got to do better. Okay, Mr. Evans.

And then we'll... Well, I really think that I want to compliment the council on the effort on Southern Dallas. I think for the first time we really have a plan. When Jim Reed moved over there to take hold of this development of Southern Dallas, we're committed to do it. And it's going to happen. But until that happens, there's no place to go. The only annexation we've had. We had more static over it when we took in renter. You were mayor green. I was just stop before I was mayor. People didn't like that. No. But Dallas, we don't have anywhere to go except Southern Dallas as far as growth and development. And the mayor just had a letter today. Come in. And for these companies to really get committed to this, this is what we're going to have to do. I'll put it far as to say too. And one of your speeches that when Los Galinas came to the city of Dallas and said, please annex us, what did Dallas do? We can't run water out there all those boats.

When was that? In the 60s. In the 60s, right? Okay. No, we were just going to go to elementary school. Okay, to the chamber right here. I'd like to say one thing on the regional side. And that's the single biggest economic asset that's ever been created in the Dallas-Forge Metroplex is DFW Airport. It has had an incredible effect. When people move in here, whether they move to Dallas or Plano, one of the main reasons is DFW Airport. That's an example of region-wide cooperation. If we're going to build a wall around Dallas and shoot at our suburbs, that's crazy. The last city that built a wall around was Berlin. They just tore it down in October. We don't need to be building any walls. We need to work out alliances, good working alliance with our natural allies, which are our suburbs. Okay, that's good. I want to come back with something. I want to get to some of the points that you're beginning to hear on, including education. Let's take another look at a video. We'll come back and talk some more. GTE.

Kimberly Clark. Caltech's petroleum. All came to the Dallas area. But not to Dallas. They're now based in Irving. Fujitsu picked Richardson as its new home. And Plano got JC Penny. In addition to those big names, two large Dallas-based companies, EDS and Frito Lay left town and headed for the suburbs. Were all these companies running to something special? Or were they all running from something bad? The Dallas first reports suggest that while companies want the cultural amenities of the big city of Dallas, they want to avoid its declining infrastructure, but many consider a substandard educational system, and the growing minority and underclass population. The study recommends that the city first has to invest in itself, even if it has to borrow money to do so. That would include revitalizing downtown.

In order to revitalize downtown, the researchers say there should be the Restoration of Fair Park, redevelopment of farmers' market, construction of a downtown baseball stadium, completion of the Dallas Zoo, and expansion of passenger service and industrial facilities at Love Field. And to improve education, the study recommends, freedom of choice for students in the Dallas School District, greater autonomy for principals and teachers by the Central Administration and School Board, more involvement by the Dallas Business Community with Curriculum Design in the DISD, it suggests a Fort Worth program as a model, and the reopening of the now closed Bishop College as a state supported four-year college, emphasizing the training of urban teachers. Okay, let's get right to it. Are we running? Yes. I'd like to respond to Mayor Evans. I was involved with the Southern Dallas effort, and I think the city is really putting their head in the ground. The Southern Dallas effort is not going to work.

It's $3 million to generate 200 square miles of development. If the city is really going to help Southern Dallas, it's got to spend its bond money on infrastructure improvements, and on the qualities that companies come in and look for. And $3 million of investment for 200 square miles is simply not going to cut it. Some people suggest, in fact, that's really just a PR campaign. I think it is. I'll follow that, because in Addison, we did what he's suggesting. We started a number of years ago to create our infrastructure before the development started. Our early efforts were to pass bond problems and begin the process of building streets and sewage roads. I grew up in Oakcliffe. My parents still live in Oakcliffe. I've lived in the Dallas area of my entire life, and I've heard about Southern Dallas initiatives and Southern Dallas programs all that time. And they never worked because nobody's investing the first money that has to go there. When a company comes to Addison, they know that they can find a site where they can build a building immediately. They can begin the process. They do not have to go through a cumbersome bureaucracy to get their planning done, and get their plans approved and so forth.

And they're attracted to that, and we're not unique in that respect. Many other communities around here have the same. I agree that the Southern Dallas Initiative, a while, it's a wonderful PR piece and wonderful idea. Until you spend the money in the ground, it's not going to take off. Well, not only that, though, but Addison is not viewed as a minority enclave either. Okay. And I think, you know, Don and some of the other folks have been touching upon the history of desegregation. The lady up there has been touching upon the educational system. They've been touching upon the political system, the lack of minority participation and input in the leadership of Dallas. I think that's all impacted upon this white flight to the suburbs. I think the majority of our leadership has come from North Dallas. The policymakers, the power brokers, the people that have the bucks to invest, that can persuade and deal with government and have their resources have been really North Dallas. And so what we're really talking about is a very natural bridge, a very natural alliance, between Mockingbird and North Dallas. And if you look at it, they have nots are basically to the south. And you got the struggling with political participation and with the educational system. I think Don put the nail right on the head because with the white flight, the desegregation,

when the judge allowed those kids to go to the suburbs back in the 70s, we had basically a self-fulfilling prophecy. And then with the lack of minority participation in the political system, mix well and you got total disaster. Total disaster. Go ahead and come on. Anyone involved with economic development knows most of these major corporations make the decision to move on their own. They have their own expert staff, their own research. Cities don't really entice larger businesses. And what they look out of the basics, good water system, good sewer system, good transportation system, we're telling Dallas, put you 55, 60 million dollars of bond money in the infrastructure of southern Dallas, it'll sell itself. But what's happening now, I think, is not only your business is moving. We got a part of the city talking about DNX. Right? We're not even talking about that. That's what we got. You want to talk about that? I mean, no clip wants to leave. I mean, you're leading the charge, aren't you? I don't know. I don't know. We didn't prove our infrastructure. We'd spend our bond money the way it should be spent. I mean, and you're serious about that.

This is no joke anymore, is it? We're serious about studying it. Yes. Yes. I'd like to read something. Okay. For back from my counsel colleague, Dr. Charles Tandy. Okay. Regarding this idea of secession. Okay. Oakcliffe may be talking secession. But what I really hear is their concern about needs. And they perceive lack of planning to address their concerns. Secession would be attempted only if cooperative options were not solved. I think what they're doing is good in studying their needs. And we're going to have to address their needs. I do want to mention, though, that 50 percent of the bond program, the 85 bond program, dealt with Southern Dallas, not counting the Central Business District. I just wanted to throw that fact on people. Okay. I want to get the education, because we have two school board members here. And this report doesn't talk people. Yeah. This report does attack the school district. I mean, unfairly. Unfairly? Unfairly. The school district is at the PISD is not working, is it? Well, that's not true.

I think, if you'll permit me, ma'am. And I know education is a concern of yours. It's a great concern of mine. The perception is that we're not educating children, and we have a poor school system, and that's just not so. And that perception is at the top level of the CEOs in this company. Betty Von Decheck and I were talking about that. The most ill-informed people are the CEOs, because they're not getting the information about the educational programs offered in the DISD. I'm competitive, and I would compete with the suburbs anytime. I'm not regional, and I'm not global like Janus. He sells the Metroplex, I sell Dallas. Mr. Cassidy, now DISD is not educating kids as well as... That's right. Yes, really? Okay. We can put, I would match any DISD school, comparable school in DISD to a suburban school, and I would venture work as well, if not better. I would venture that we offer programs they couldn't even dream of offering, because they can't afford them. I would say we have Magnus schools. They don't even know about Magnus schools, because they can't afford Magnus schools. We have people coming in from the suburbs to pay tuition to come to our schools. Let me just say, if I may, if I may.

Mr. Hicks, Mr. Hicks. They don't have a deal with a lot of blightest neighborhoods. They don't have to deal with a lot of people who need to. They don't have to deal with all of those problems. This is what we're telling you. I'm the moderator here. What I say, what the city of Dallas needs, Jan Cullmore. What we need is a cheerleader for Dallas, and we don't have that. Well, not for the design involved in that. Not for the design involved. No, man, we do not. I'm going to say this. I'm going to say this. They're an ideal in perceptions all the time, and we have to deal with a negative perception of the DISD. It's wrong, because we have an excellent school system, but we can't get the word out, and we can't get the Jan Cullmore's and the other CEOs of the world to listen to us. And then the Forest Miss Write reports, based on information that may come from the newspapers. I don't know where it came from, but we take it on the chin, and then a CEO from Chicago says, well, my folks want a good school system. It sounds like the DISD is not a good school system. And that's just not true. It's not true.

It's the makeup of that district. It's a minority. I mean, I suggested that they're running. Our responsibility is to educate all of the children that we have in our district. All the children of all the people, and the very best possible way that we can, and we can't really waste our time discussing who the children are. They're the children in the future workforce of the city. And what we need to do is everybody support educating all of those children. I don't know if everybody heard you, but I overheard you say that some of the suburban students pay tuition to come to the DISD. Yes. Why do you let them? Why do we let them? Yeah. Well, we have an excellent school, and if we have the space, we will allow the children. Only on the space available. And I just brought that up. Go ahead. You mentioned several issues there that we'd like to touch on. We were discussing beforehand that we feel like that in the right of the report, maybe not all of the facts were known by the people that were writing them, because they talked about business being involved with the curriculum of our schools. And all of our magnet schools have business advisory committees that are involved in telling us what the needs of the business community are, and we are trying to reflect those.

So we do have those committees that they suggest. I can't really suggest the Fort Worth model. In that topic, what we had in place since 1970s. That went into place with the Skyline High School, and it's been very active in many of our schools. And then you talk about choice. We have over 38,000 students in Dallas that are opting for choice, because we do have choice. We do have our magnets in our M&M programs, and our programs that start even in kindergarten and pre-kindergarten, where we allow people to have choice on a space available basis. Who's ever selling Dallas is not selling that part of the DIST, because that's what people are running for. But they're also not selling Dallas. I've got to defend myself. Oh, yeah, because of the comment. I was going to say the Chambers Adopt-A-School program has been very instrumental in getting businesses and people involved in our schools. It just needs to be bigger, and there are more people that need to be involved. And we would ask for all of the help that we can get tonight for anyone to support the public education system, because it's in everybody's best interest. My only sense is that we've given up on the DIST.

I mean, you know, we haven't. Absolutely. OK, OK. Just a quick comment. We have the Adopt-A-School program, almost 100 schools adopted by major corporations throughout the Metroplex, not just in the city of Dallas. We have thousands of volunteers that do work actively with the DIST through that program. We support communities and schools, and I have a dream program. So believe you, me, the business community in Dallas and the Dallas region supports. And that is also the report. And I think that's unfortunate. And it doesn't come across on every day, because when you pick up the newspapers, what you see is what happens in the boardroom, because the media is covering what is happening in the political arena and not what's happening in the classroom. OK, Mr. Colbert. Mr. Sanders, this is a subject that I hope very dear to this education portion of this report. And I have been known to tell the truth. That's all I know to tell you. Number one, when I said perception in the very beginning, when you started the tape on education, the first thing that popped up on the tape were minority students.

If that tape was shown in a place in Atlanta and Chicago, it would lead anyone viewing the tape to believe there are nothing but minority students in that DISD. But for your legal students, all right? Mr. Sanders, let me finish. In this report, it says, give parents the choice to choose to put their children in the school of their choice and give education opportunities for disadvantaged students. Disadvantaged students don't ride in BMWs and murder spaces in school. They ride the yellow bus and walk. If you give a child a parent the choice to put his child where he wants to the disadvantaged student must stay in his neighborhood. That's exclusion again. That's not inclusion. DISD is getting a bad rap. Mr. Lipscomb is a DISD person. I'm a DISD person. Ross Wess is a DISD person. Ross Wess grew up in Fraser College House and project. What do you call disadvantaged? Disadvantaged is a state of mind. And Dallas needs to get away from thinking because you got black skin, you're disadvantaged and you don't have any sense. All right, I would just make a couple of comments on the comment.

Have we given up on the DISD and the comment? We certainly haven't Jan Commerce comments about what the chamber is doing and many of the people that represent organizations here daily talk about what the DISD is trying to do, what the business community is trying to do. And also the comments about we need a cheerleader for Dallas. We got one of the best cheerleaders in the country for Dallas, Texas sitting right in the middle of this audience and that's our mayor. Mayor Strauss is the best cheerleader that we have and every one of these people including some of the people from the suburbs here tonight are good cheerleaders for Dallas. And I, two more comments. One is that I think the worst thing that we can do is create a we and they situation. That's the worst thing that we can do. And we need to work together. I think we're doing the second thing that in this report, although I think it brought a lot of things to the forefront, perhaps a lot of people hadn't seen on each, almost every one of those items. There's been a great deal of work done on the issues that far has raised in there. Maybe not all that should be done. And the third thing is in terms of Southern Dallas,

in my judgment, I think that we have neglected Southern Dallas in the past. But we're making better inroads. It's certainly not a PR program and infrastructure is not the total answer to the problem. Mr. Lipstick, you still got your point on the kitchen. Yeah, let's say this. There is a we and they posh to here. But with the shakers and the makers that end this auditorium in this studio today, we can get something resolved at this point. Because look at TDC. It's loaded with ignorant young people. Understand? Yes. The juvenile detention homes, the same thing. Now, they dropped out. They're here. Our infrastructure is eroding. We have beautiful drum beaters. But what do we do about what is happening now? And I will say this, if Dallas goes by the wayside, it's just a matter of time before the suburbs also. Okay. We've got the people in this room. They've got changes here.

Now, we're getting close. We're about ten minutes away from ending this program. And I hope that we can get to what do we do from here? Mr. Robinson, and then I'll go there. Deal with the institution of racism is one thing. We can't get around that. We can't get around that. Deal with the institution of racism. And other things will fall in place. Mr. Robinson. Mr. Sanders, I've been listening here to all the comments that have been made. And one concern that I have when I read this report, and the concerns I have now is that this, the Dallas area is directed by the business communities. No question about that. When you look at the report, you look at page three of the report on the bottom paragraph. It says the City of Dallas, the Citizens Council, and the Greater Dallas Chamber of Commerce should reexamine the region and come up with some solutions. But they always, they never consult the Dallas Black Chamber of Commerce or any of the minority chambers of commerce

who are here in the city, who have been here for years. The Dallas Black Chamber of Commerce has been in since 1926. We know the problems of the city. We know the problems of the southern sector. We also have the solutions. But whenever it's time to sit down and define the problems and come up with the solutions, no one ever asked the Black Chamber for its comment or its input. And I think that's, that points out that there is a degree of exclusion in terms of coming up with the solution. Okay, we're going to say they really include the Black Chamber. Now Mr. Perry, go ahead. I want to take issue with the fact that when you talk about the suburbs that there are no older communities, we do have old communities in Plano and we're doing something about them. We've had a very, very aggressive rehabilitation program going on for the last three years utilizing CBDG funds for that purpose. We've had an aggressive infill housing program. We've created new entryways into one of our older communities, the Douglas community, which the communities are very, very proud of. We've created the traffic divers and different things like that

to keep traffic from cutting through those neighborhoods. So I think that we in Plano have done something about the older neighborhoods that we're continuing to do that. And as we continue to work on that problem, we're also attracting people into that area that can have affordable housing and create an aggressiveness and a viability in our own neighborhood. What's our next step? What do we go from here? What can Plano do to help Dallas? What can Dallas do to help Plano? But what can this group do day after tomorrow that's going to help change what we started out with? We just broke ground on a trust aid police academy that includes Plano-Garlin Richardson for Cooperative Effort for police academy. It's going to be state of the art. I think the entire area can look at ways where they can cooperate with each other, thus saving tax dollars and creating a genuine cohesiveness between the area suburbs and city of Dallas. We got a great example. We got a great example. Dallas needs to stop fighting within Dallas. Dark, D-I-S-D, all of us need to get together, sit down, work a plan. We have a great city.

We need to stop fighting ourselves. Well, D-I-S-D is a good example of cooperation, right? I mean, I mean... Well, I didn't mean that position's a misunderstanding, but we do have some of the communities working together because now they have to, don't we? What works for us when D-I-S-D doesn't do anything to incorporate minorities in this contracting? They have a lot of global statistics they can point to. But they think they're going in the ground with D-I-S-D. They're going to have some business men out there lying in front of those shovels unless they get that together. Excuse me. Excuse me. Very quickly. Then we can come back over here to the mayor. I want some solutions if I can. Armored already business development statistics compete as well or better than any governmental agency. And I agree that we need to do better. But I think we have a good proven track record. The interesting experience with Dart, for me, and an experiment is that it's proven to me that the success of one city doesn't come at the expense of another city. And that's been the rough and tumble that we've been dealing with for the last six years. But I think we're proving that regional governance over a major

public project can work. And hopefully that will be some lessons for the region. Okay. Bob Raid, downtown Dallas was mentioned in the last segment. And I happen to serve as chairman of the Central Dallas Association. We're doing three things to face these issues that are brought up by this report. And I think it's good that it's caused us to discuss it. First of all, downtown Dallas is the heart of this region. And if a heart doesn't work well, the entire body doesn't work well. We have 120,000 people in the Employment Center in downtown Dallas. And we're doing our best to increase that. Secondly, we think it's up to us to take on ourselves to improve the product. We don't look outside to solve our problems. Central Dallas Association is starting a new marketing program this year to market downtown Dallas. We think it is the downtown is the heart of this region. And we're doing it ourselves. We've created a program this summer to hire 100 DISD students in our offices downtown to help with the DISB program. We're also working with the homeless problem. So we're taking initiative ourselves.

We're not blaming anybody else. We're taking it on ourselves. We're taking some steps. And I think that's the entire group ought to do that. Okay, Mayor. One of the principal issues of this report was the revenue sharing by the suburbs with the city. Implementation of such a program. I don't see how it could possibly be done. There is sharing as the other mayors have said with the county commissioners court where we support Parkland Hospital and the commissioners group where they do the roads and things like that. I don't think the suburbs have a problem because we are cheerleaders for Dallas also. But we do have a problem with implementing a revenue sharing program. We're going to support Dallas all the way. Can you help Dallas deal with some of these major problems in housing and education? We are on that too. Okay, Ms. Martin. On the southern sector. I'll give you two examples. We wonder what's wrong with the southern sector. Look at North Central and South Central. Look at North Central and South Central. $100 million. The taxpayers or dollars are spending to build a very needed, elitist under capacity freeway in North Dallas.

Nothing in South. And I would venture to say in the 90s, when that's through, I would venture to say in the 90s, when DART is finished going north and south, there will be a totally disproportionate investment per capita, per user, per rider in the northern and southern sector. It isn't a mystery. It's absolutely out there. And I'll say this. I know most of you are real well. And I've asked some of the people in this room, what can we do about the southern sector? What can we do about the Lafield area? And I've gotten a lot of coals but not one on helping Dallas. Not one. Okay. I'm saving you for sort of the last word. Well, I think we, I think first off, we need to be students of history and students of current events. And we need to understand that just as there's a natural confluence and a natural alliance between the suburbs and Dallas, there should be a natural alliance and a natural conflict between Dallas and the minority communities. There's no other community that's got more at stake than the minority communities.

If you look at the faces here in the crown, we need to have the Asian, the Black, the Hispanic, and other disenfranchised minority communities involved in this process. Many of the problems we're talking about right now go to lack of participation, a lack of development of leadership, a lack of inclusion in the decision-making process. We have a golden opportunity with this problem or this crisis. Forest report does not lay blame. What it does is give an analysis. It helps us analyze that. And we have an opportunity for the minority community to step up and also meet that challenge. Briefly appearing and I'm coming to the main. Yes, Barbara. A couple of answers to things. Mr. Hicks mentioned something about darkening the minority. And just a year ago, we won a National Award for our minority participation. Two out of the three starter lines is going to be in the South of Cliff and West of Cliff area. So we feel like that in the dark plan that we are working on that, however, transportation lends itself to regional. There are many things that we've discussed here today that don't lend itself to regional participation.

And we need to do those and separate those out the ones that we can work on those and the ones that we can't solve the problems ourselves. Mr. House. Okay, there were two things I wanted to mention. First of all, I do congratulate you members of the School Board of the DISD. I think we're doing a great job there. Yesterday, I met with the Director of the Superconducting Super Collider, which will be the greatest, will have the greatest economic impact on the city of Dallas than anything we're going to be doing in the future. Now, I want to say something. All right. Oh, goodness. Well, I do want him to say that they're having a great program, a job training program in the laboratories there. And they commented to me that four of the 11 high school students that they chose out of so many applications with the DISD, with tremendous records. And the Super Collider is a regional effort. That's another thing I want to make sure. Thanks to all you for joining us. We're out of time. You're going to continue, right? Good night.

Thank you. news edition is made possible in part by the members of channel 13 and by the Peter W Baldwin program fund.

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