Interview; David Richardson and Family: African American tobacco farmers

What do you call it? Primant tobacco, for me? We're Primant tobacco, loopant tobacco, stringant tobacco, and a tobacco. Put it in. How long does it take to bring it across? I think about six weeks. From planting to harvest? Oh no. I think you start planting really in February, the tobacco bed, and then you sit it out, and then you in May, and then you're supposed to, around the fourth or July, start harvesting tobacco. And then you go in a process at the harvest and grade in tobacco. What do you do?

Take it to the mark and sell it. What brings you back to North Carolina? I got married a second time to a North Carolina man. How does North Carolina compare to New York? It's clean. Oh, well, I find that North Carolina people, well, they're not as flexible as New York, that's the standard reason. But I like clean, nice, plenty of fresh food. Speaking of food, what kinds of food do you like to fix? I like to visit with fresh corn tomato, you know, and southern fried chicken. I, myself, I fix the same food here that I fix the New York spaghetti, you know, anything that you lamb, anything I fix the New York I fix here, it's no different really. Have you lived out of North Carolina? Yes, I just recently moved down from Brooklyn after being away for 23 years. Are you glad to be back?

No. I don't sit like that. Do you fix any kinds of southern food that you could describe? How you fix it? I love cooking, but I love the sound. I've been to the city and I don't like city. But I think visiting back and forth is good for, you know, everybody because you can see the different ways that people live. But many I wouldn't take the South or anything because I'm used to it and, you know, I can get about, I know how to get about in South and I'm lost when I'm up north. That's me, you know, it's not too bad to back up when you're going to back up. Really? Thank you. How long you going to keep these alright? Well, this is radio. Just talking about the tobacco crop, how long you've been doing it, how long have you had the farm? Ah, about, let's see, 1947, so that's about 32 years, I guess. You seem to have a lot of family here working on the crop during the harvest at this time.

Is this when the family comes together during the year? Yeah, this is kind of a family reunion light when everybody gets together. They don't charge me too much longer than they can tell, you know, about all cousins and uncles and aunts and all that good. Do you feel that farming keeps the family together? I think it do. I think it have a lot to do with it because once you get, if you can stay together, you always want to be together, but once you ever get a part, then you eventually want to get together anymore. I think it have a lot to do with it. Do you see any changes in your family over the generations or any difference between the current young people and people whom you grew up with? Yeah, quite a difference though. They don't like the work as good as they used to. Tobacco has seen to be one of the hardest jobs. It is now a special prime in tobacco.

When used to, they didn't mind it at all, but now they, it's really getting to be a problem now to get the young boy to prime tobacco. What is priming tobacco? It's pulling their leaves off and stuff. What is the rest of the process that you're doing here? They are stringing it now. They're getting it on the stick ready for putting it in a tobacco bowl and hanging it into the bowl into it. How long does it need to hang in the barn? About four or five days. And then you take it to market? I take it out and put it in sheets and take it to the market. You used to, you know, you had to put it in the barn and after you get through the barn and you carry it to the market, but now you take it out of the barn and put in the sheet and you carry it to the market and then you're ready to get some money to pay the hands off.

So it's a little bell now that it used to be. How's the crowd this year? Well, it's fair. I would say mine is as good as it was last year if not better. It's a rain hit us a whole lot. What kind of tobacco do you grow here? I grew sphg28 in 347. I got two types of tobacco that I grew. When you're not involved in growing tobacco, what do you do in your spare time? Well, I run about 60 brood sails. So I have to hang about anywhere from four to five hundred a year to hogs a year. So that's a job within its sale, which I managed to do it all right because I got fire and houses and places that I don't have to water them. So I can just go ahead and feed them maybe once every two days and some of my feed wants

so every two weeks and it's no problem. So I take care about 60 brood sails and about 18 acres to back and it's no problem at all. Pork seems to be a big product in North Carolina, is that true? It is. Pork is something that it's up and down. Price is good now. That's true. I lost one on either here. I so put right now in prices is good. Do you spend any time in other parts of North Carolina away from your farm? What you mean on trips or vacations? I haven't had a vacation there in about, well I never had a vacation. I've been to go to Farm Bureau of Convocation and that's in November, I said Durham and that's about the only vacation I've got to get.

How many of your family members are involved in the harvest this year? Are you speaking about my family or all the family? All the family. Let's see, good bud, let's see, there's 15 here, 15. Some from New York and some from Washington and they're down on vacation and I got one in school, he's your husband and there's about 15 now. And it's a whole lot better than it was last year and year before last because a lot of people don't have a job or the last year they had a job. How do you feel the economy is affecting the prices in the market this year? Well it's kind of a bad on the farm this year. Now last year the farm could see a little something coming in with this year, I don't see

too much coming in for myself because some things I bought this year have maybe went up three times and I just don't see any money to be made to show in the back. If I can just break even and pay my hands and pay my debts I'll do good. I just don't see it if tobacco don't go from where it's at now. If tobacco's dead the present price I don't see no way I'm making it, I'm not making any money. Do you ever think you want to get out of growing tobacco when you have a year like this? I should do but I keep on trying hoping next year be a little better. How about North Carolina, how long have you lived in the state? I don't think so, I don't think I didn't want to leave, I've been here all my life and I've made some money in, some of the years I didn't make in, I feel like I've had a

average life in North Carolina, I think it's just good here, it is anywhere else. How do you find the people here? Well fine, fine, of course I've never been in the world so I couldn't tell you anything about other states but as far as I'm concerned it's nice here, otherwise I wouldn't go away else but here for good. What do you think you'd like to do in the future? Well I want to quit raising tobacco one thing, I did say that I was going to raise hogs and how pork for my income but it's not stable and you can't depend on them but if I could I'd rather do that than anything I knew of because it's not as much work and it is in tobacco but I imagine after I stopped raising tobacco I would just go along with swine.

What do people do with pork with the swine that you raised? Well right now I'm setting feeder pigs and they take them and there's big pig parlors and they're top of them out and sell them as top hogs, I sell them to the bigger man, I sell them to maybe people who would top out four and five thousand at one time and I just take mine up and let them top them out. What is topping out? Well it's a feeder pig, I get rid of mine at four to fifty pound and then the man that gets them from there he gets them to about two eighty to two twenty then he's taken to market for a slaughter and that's right. Are there any things in the state that you'd like to see changed? Yes, I'm a whole lot of things I would like to see change. Like what?

Well I don't know which one to get on first, I would like to see a price set on. Our tobacco swine word that we could know what price we're going to get when we start in the first year and the price set on everything, how much we were going to pay, then we would know exactly what we're going to get in the fall of the year. I think that's just about covered because if you do that then you have a price set on gasoline, fertilizing, all, and your price on your tobacco set where everybody would know what they're going to get I think. That would be one of the best things that could have happened if it can be done. Do you think the politicians are receptive to this? I don't think so. I think it can be done but I don't think, well I'll tell you the truth, I think there's so many big mands in there getting the cream of the crop until they got it fixed where they'll never happen that way.

I don't think it ever happened because I think that they got it fixed so that little man can't get but just so much and the big man has got it fixed so he can get what he want and get without any trouble. I don't think it ever happened. We had it that way once, pretty, pretty near that way once on a control, pretty near on a level but since last five, six years seemed like me the whole thing of change and it's going all the way. Got it so the poor man can't get anything and the big man's getting it all. Do you think anything can be done to reverse the order of that? Yes, I think it can. I think if the change is poured and get another party in there, I think they'd do a lot about it because when it was the way that I known a long time ago, we had a party in

it that I thought did a good job on having everything on an average base where everybody can make an ordinary profit. I think it can be done. Do you know if any people in this area who might have some stories to tell or do you know of any stories, go stories, interesting stories from your past? Do you care to share? I tell you right now, I don't know of none, sometimes I can get out when I'm kind of arrested and they ain't got nothing to do and think of some great long stories to tell about right now. I can't think of one to tell. Let's see. No, I really can't think of one right now. The story telling a part of your family life? Yeah, I used to tell my children stories a lot of while I got handed down from my mother and she used to tell them to me and I used to tell them to them, but right now I can't

think of one to tell right now. There's a story that happened in your family that Larry had mentioned to me about the grandfather chasing the client away. Do you know that story? I wonder if you could tell us. I don't know that one. I don't know that one. I heard a little something about it, but I don't know enough of that one to tell it, to tell that one. Is there much fear of the Ku Klux Klan anymore? No. Definitely not. I think one of the worst things could ever happen when we got a sign out here at Smithfield that they still got up, you know. And I think they got it up there just to let you know this is something that I dare you, but our older people are gone now and they're about passed off in the scene and it actually drive anger and our younger people and it's just something I think is against the town

of Smithfield or Johnson County and the sign being up there because it's just something that seemed like me they wanted to remember what used to happen a long time ago. And maybe our older people that's gone on, it would scare them, you know, they even see it, but our younger people just make them mad, they just make them angry to see it and it drives, it's put hatred on them and I don't think it's a good thing for it to be there. What does the sign say? Well, it's just a KK sign and that's about all that's got a KK on it, a miracle and not too much, but just enough to, you know, it's like an old soul on your hand, just enough to remind you, you heard it once and I don't think it's terrible and I think we've got a lot of good people to Smithfield, fine people that I know of and I think that it would

be enough of pressure put on it, it could be got them down, but sometimes focus say, well, it's none of my business, but sometimes I think that's the wrong thing to think, it's none of my business because that's something that it always calls someone to feel hard at someone else, although they're not guilty, you know, I think it would be good idea if you could take a removing, but nobody haven't even think about it. But I think that's the only thing about North Carolina, as far as I'm concerned, that I think it's wrong about it, everything else is a little key, but that particular thing and I think it could be stopped, but we just don't seem to bother by taking it down. You mean the sign itself? See the sign itself all, that's about the only thing that you, you hear anything about it, see the sign, you know, you hardly will see too much in the paper and there's nobody

can ever bother with them, they don't bother you, you know, you used to, there'd been a time come that you could come by with a mask or your face and you scare somebody, but you can't do that now because you, and I think didn't know it, you'd ride by the right house with one of those things on your face and something, something to happen that would be real bad, so they don't do that in a moment, they just put the sign up and say, this is the sign, you know, that's the sign itself, and I think if, actually I think if you take that down, it'll soon be forgotten, you know, I don't think so, I never hear too much about it. Who keeps the sign up there? Well, I don't know who got the sign up, but I think there's just enough organized to keep it going.

I don't know exactly who's the head of it, but somebody is doing it. Has any people spoken to the mayor of the Chamber of Commerce about the sign? Well, once they spoke, they spoke a lot about it once, so I guess it's been made a couple years ago, it was in the paper and all, and it eventually cooled down, it didn't seem to get anyone to get it down, I don't know why, but, and then it eventually stopped putting it in the paper, so it's still there. You think you'll stay in North Carolina then? Oh, yeah, that's the only thing that, and I think it's wrong with North Carolina, as far as North Carolina as a whole and other states, I think that's just about the only thing. And I'm sorry to say this is in Johnson County, I live in Johnson County, and that's the only thing that I think that's wrong with Johnson County, and National Johnson County,

is in North Carolina and makes it bad for the county, you know. And we have good people in Johnson County, but we just, I think there are too many things we'll buy. Do you mind the sign put up by the Ku Klux Klan? I think that this should have enough backbone on them to get the sign down, I think the kind of commission can do it, I think it can be done, and I think it's the disgrace and the shame and scanners for the kind of commissions in the law enforcement to let the signs say that I still think it's fake. I think it can be go down, but they won't do it. Well, thank you very much. When the school first was integrated, that was, it must have been about six, seven years ago, and we, you know, it was, it was free charge at that time, and the most of the blacks wouldn't send the chair into the, to the white school call, they were afraid, and somebody

had to start doing it, so me and my brother was one of the two that did it, and they give us a hard way to go. They brought crosses in the path and in the mail, around the mailboxes, they came by my house, they threw rocks at the house, and then when the children went to school, even the teachers would talk about the black children and say, well, maybe we don't know where the more things came from, but they're here. When the teachers gave the children a hard way to go, it wasn't just a few in each room, and that's what they did for maybe a couple of years after they got to school, emerged where they had to put more blacks in the schools, and soon as they got all the blacks in the schools and got the schools where they had the number of blacks supposed to be in it, and it kind of a quiet knoth. And now, they don't have that problem now. The problem is over with, but when they first went in there, it was amazed that you could see that Iowa white teachers who was grown or adult could change from saying that old

thing and throwing off on the child and saying three or four years in there, they change, and everything was okay, sweet, then they, you know, just saying something that said that, well, I got it to do, and I can do it if I want to, but they had a hard way to go when they first went in school with me. Did your children feel comfortable with integration now? Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. And I think they're both white and blacks except very well here in Johnson County. I think the only problem, in fact, I know the only problem is the older ones teaching the children's, and the children that is taught against it, they don't feel too comfortable because the parents say it's not right, you know, and they don't know what to do, but I think the more stubborn, the more the parents both white and black, the children get so long fun in school.

Thank you. How do you find people to be in North Carolina compared to New York? Well, naturally, the folks in North Carolina is not as flexible as the people in New York City because at the all his, you know, the community in North Carolina have populated and they don't come in contact with as many people, so you would expect this. But they are lovely people, I find them very religious, and they far-mine it, and they clean living people, but naturally they don't see as much as we have seen in New York City, so things are pretty strange to them. When you say that they're not flexible, in what way? What I said, like you're talking on a conversation, having a conversation with one, they have a made up mind, this is what, you know, I mean, I'm no judge, but this is what I find. They have a made up mind already, and they just don't give, I mean, they're steadfast

in what they believe. Do you think that there are better opportunities now in North Carolina than there were when you left? Oh, yes. So many opportunities for the young, you know, and the old is far and better too, because a long time ago when I left, it's 32 years ago, I only went from here to sell my North Carolina to school in church, but now since I've been back, I've been all over North Carolina, it's a lovely place, new homes, and new schools, and you know, they are mixing, and it's nice. They go to beaches, and they have the same thing as in New York. When you're not working at the tobacco farm, your family farm, what do you do in your spare time? Keep house for my husband and family. I go shopping, and I go out sometimes with my husband for lunch. We go to church on my Sunday, sometimes doing the week, and I enjoy myself, sometimes we go to shows, you know, different shows, it's very nice.

You have quite a religious family, I understand, could you tell us about the ministers in your family? Oh, yes. My father was the minister, a Baptist minister, and my brother is a Pentecostal minister, my sister, the Pentecostal minister, and I have two sisters, as a matter of fact, the Pentecostal minister, and my husband is the minister. You don't listen to me like that. Religion must play an important role within your family structure. We raised up with religion, it's very, very important to us, I mean, the word, mean more to us than food, because we depend on the word of God. And like on a Wednesday morning, my mother, how proud me, that her house every Wednesday morning, they pray for the sick, they pray for those that are in trouble, they try to get close to God. And we came up, we had Sunday morning prayer, when the sun was rise, and we was praying all in my mother's house, it's a very, it plays an important role in our lives, religion.

And that is why so many of us are ministers, and that's why I married a minister, because, you know, the class of people that you go around with, that's the class that you marry. So that's what happened in our family, and my brothers had taken a vet church there, you know, that's what happened. Is this true among your friends also, does religion play that much of a role in most people's lives here? Yes, and I know that since I've been home back from New York City, that it plays a most important role. People that was not close to God before are becoming, to be more close to, they are not fooling around, and they're more, they mean what they are doing. And it's a wonderful thing to see. What accounts for this closeness to religion and God? Well, I think that people are coming to the senses, they are facing the fact that people are dying, and this is the word of God, he said, man, we'll die, and this is his word. And so if one word follows another, they just believe in God more, and they are applying

the self more, and will this apply on yourself with works and faith together, you get results, the obedience of God, and believing in God, and going out working for God. It brings forth to itself, and once you experience a thing, nobody can not tell you different. So we are experiencing the blessing of God, because we are doing the will of God, but we know that everything we do is, it don't mean anything unless we have his grace, and he helps bless us with his grace. Does music play an important role in your religion? Well, we don't play no instrument, but we sing a lot among ourselves, and we testify, we lift God up with the word, telling others how good God is and how good He has been to us, you know, and that plays a big role in our life, lifting God up, you know, that's why it plays a big role in our life, passing it from one to another, you know, that the

whole world would know, and I have a little ways, you know, and I have some small ways, we try to do this every where we go in every day, through song of Herbal. Could we talk about some of the food that you liked to cook? Well, now you see, I lived in New York for 32 years, so I like to forget it, I tell you food, but I also like to celebrate chicken, I like soul food, I like Irish food, I like kosher food, and I'm just a mixture, I like all kinds of food, in fact I like Chinese food, so we use cookbooks, before we didn't use it so much, but now the young arrays do use cookbooks, and we are good things to send to cookbooks, and we pick out what we want to cook, and we cook it, and there are any family recipes that have been handed down? Well, yes, but dear, I wouldn't know, because I don't remember, it wasn't handed down to

me, you know what I mean, but I'm just an ordinary cook, you know, I just cook, when I want to cook rice chicken and hot biscuits, I cook them, and I want to cook spaghetti, I make spaghetti, and the sauce, so that's the way it is with me, and if I want to make filter fish, I make filter fish, that's the way it is, thanks much, for you back up. What do you think about the bicentennial festivities in this country? I think the bicentennial festivities for the coming year should be something that everybody, you know, should weakness as a good thing, because I don't see any, well, I would say that, but this other thing is kind of a good thing, and I think everybody is going to participate

in any way they can to, you know, to say that they've, you know, been a part of it, you know, it's about it, it's about it, you think North Carolina played any particular role in the birth of a nation? Uh, yes, yes, I do, I do, perhaps, you know, in fact, and if you get enough, you know, the thing started, I think they played a lot in the beginning, of course, I can't, you know, I can't name anything, anything specific things on what they did, you know, but I'm sure they did, I can't, like I said, I can't do anything right off, but I think they're all, you know, all the states were just playing it in some way, and North Carolina, I think, I, as a matter of fact, I know we did, you know, I just like to say that we spent many years.

How do you like North Carolina? The people here, who here to stay? Oh, that's a good question. Now, that I can come, you know, the people here are the more southern type, and I don't know, they seem to resist change more, but basically at night, you know, kindhearted people, I think New York is a little bit, a little bit reminded, I guess the reason why I like it so much, and I, but I think, I think there is a migration back to the south, you know, the people, you know, like, you know, up north, I'm coming back down to the south, you know, because, you know, the job opportunities, I'm not only cis, you know, people support you there, because of job opportunities, you know, they come into the south, you know, because they exist here now, you know, there's no reason to go up there, and, you know, all right.