The American Scene; Pocket Paperback Books

Good morning for the American scene. Twenty years ago in the summer of 1939 a publisher called Pocket Books issued its first titles. About one and a half million copies of these books sold at a quarter each that year. Last year this particular publisher sold an estimated 55 million paperback books. Today there are some 75 publishers and a dozen university presses answering the demand for the paperback. A demand which many would say is the most exciting development in the literary world in this century if not indeed a most significant development in the history of our American culture. This morning we hope to examine not only the scope of the books themselves but the audience who these books reach and perhaps most important of all the effect of this phenomenon on our society. Our guests this morning are Mrs. Beatrice Videl, manager and buyer of the trade book department at the University of Chicago bookstore and Dr. Howard P. Vincent, chairman of the department of language, literature and philosophy at Illinois

Tech. Before we talk about who reads pocket the pocket book and who writes it and what all of this means let's consider the pocket book itself. Mrs. Beatrice Videl how can one describe the vast range of subject matter that we find in the pocket book today? Well of course I'd be tempted to say infinite if that were any kind of descriptive answer but I think first of all before we talk about pocket books generally we ought to distinguish between the lower price mass distributed books represented by pocket books, abandoned books, Dell, New American Library and those and the higher priced paperbacks, the movement of the higher price paperback book really was triggered in the fall, no no April I think of 53 with the publication of the double day anchor series and the big distinction between the higher price paperback and the lower price paperback is the difference that

you might say between two sets of S's in the lower price paperback I would say the emphasis had been in the beginning at least it is different now on the sex sadism and the smoking gun whereas now with the advent of the lower price I'm sorry of a higher price paperback the emphasis is on the serious scholarly and rather sophisticated material Mrs. Videl I have a couple examples right here here is one of the the sex sadistic and here's a gun a smoking gun not smoking gun but a gun one of the euro Stanley Gardner which I believe you told me sold about 50 million copies the euro Stanley Gardner books and I happen to know that he is the best -selling American author in the world according UNESCO figures and now this sells what for quarter thirty five cents twenty but here is the series when you're talking about the book on English novel which how big a sale would this have about I'm a big a printing

about ten thousand I would think about ten thousand itself for dollar fifty five but the hard back for that would cost about four or five dollars I think it's sold originally for about four fifty well there's your great contrast we talk about the the lower price book and the upper price book what what price range are we talking about from from a quarter to where the lower price paperbacks range twenty five thirty five and fifty cents with some very large ones now coming out at seventy five and even ninety five double yes and triples uh... N .A .L. published the Thomas Burton seven -story mountain you see as a triple volume for seventy five cents and recently they came out with Atlas shrugged the latest in rand and I think that's ninety five cents but now the higher price paperbacks range from ninety five cents originally when they were started in fifty three the publishers were going to try to keep the price at ninety five and possibly a dollar and a quarter but of course increasing production costs have made the price higher so that they range ninety five dollar

twenty five thirty five dollar forty five and all the way up to ninety five dollar ninety five and recently growth press came out with a bash and wonder that was India at I think two ninety five or three ninety five I never remember at two accurately prices of the paperbacks I always I never remember quantities of recipes or prices of paperbacks because you can be wrong by quarter teaspoon or quarter of a dollar well in these more expensive paperbacks that is a dollar fifty five dollar eighty five isn't there some ratio between the original hardcover price and the price comes out and the potential sale of that kind of book see that again I'm not quite sure that is when they printed the hard hard cover they figured that they would price the book at five dollars because expenses were so much and the potential sale was so much now when it goes into a paperback the potential sale is so much and the price would be therefore so much I would be have some ratio to the original hardcover for instance you talked about this two

ninety five hardcover that must have been fairly expensive I mean two ninety five paperback that must have been quite an expensive hardcover book yes it was but no there's no connection between the hardcover price and the soft cover price the ratio still depends on production costs I see well the production cost is expensive on a hard cover will be expensive on a soft cover to if you're going to use the original illustrations some of these are the production costs are cut down if they can use the same plates yes that's that's quite true yes and they are often died most of these use the same plates all the way through not only the photographs but the type we're the initial paperback books reprints of hard back books over these original paperbacks that came out roughly 20 years ago original pieces of writing no they were all reprints the business of publishing original works in paperback has just become a recent development I think in pocket

books original list of the first ten titles they published there was James Hilton's lost horizon and that's the only title it sticks in my mind but that is also still maintained in print by pocket books either way six of the original ten titles in the pocket bookline are still in print there's a curious there's an interesting historical point to be made here it seems to me that is a paperbacker rather old the talk that's a famous talking at sedition of the 19th late 19th and early 20th century in fact as late as a European or American European they were published in Germany in English mind published in German they were paperback they were sold on the continent to tourists to travelers and I remember going over to Europe in 1930 and by a number of point count of point books like that they were not allowed to be sold in the because they were pirated editions essentially pirated edition but these sold for a very small amount

but they were they were paperbacks and were reprints and then of course a penguin how do you what do you do about the penguins and the pelicans in England of course that's in English now of course now with the change in copyright laws there are certain restrictions on the titles that are carried in the United States some titles which are available in England are not available here and are so marked in the catalogs but the English penguin and the American penguin companies are now separate so that we get mostly books that are published here but what I was thinking about was a historical matter in the 1930s for instance the pelicans in the penguins were going very strong they even had slot machines you could buy for six months like chewing gum yeah like chewing gum you could buy again in Europe yes this is in England not here and we didn't have anything like this until after world we still don't have slot machine books so far as I know but we may why not that would be the improvement on self -service yes it would but the pelicans in penguins had

a tremendous influence upon American tourists and because they could get really good things well here's the Canterbury tales this is one of the expensive ones naturally the Canterbury tales are the translation by Neville Coghill for only a dollar and a quarter and here are the number of translations 50 cents a thousand and one nights 50 cents 65 cents and so on like that well those are tremendous buyers and after World War 2 we began to put out paperbacks and to compete with the pelican and the penguin but are putting the way we put out the pocketbooks and these these better books such as the English novel and so on began to influence the English market I had friends write and say you're American paperbacks the most wonderful thing in the world we're able to build up a library now at a very small cause because they were being imported and they're having an effect upon the English publisher's now who in turn are putting out paperback not penguin penguin is itself only a paperback house but the others have gone into paper back because coming across to America

it's gone back and influenced England are you using paperbacks in the English courses at Illinois all the time teachers couldn't get along without them nowadays because you see the advantage of a paperback over the usual textbook is in English that is in in in English course you would have to buy a great big book with all kinds of things packed into it and anthology anthology's are cumbersome books they look like text books which is a bad thing you know then the students want to get rid of them but these books you see are attracted little books to have they make a nice display on yourself you don't want to sell them and furthermore you can get a number of them and you can get the whole thing not a piece of it you can get all of them well here for instance in the course in American literature you could have Scarlet Letter one volume you could have Moby Dick in another volume and so on and so on and you would have nice little library at no greater cost than buying your great big heavy weighty anthology the Greeks used to say a big book is a bad book

these are little books are there authors writing today solely for paperback printing or are we developing a core of writers who are writing for paperback and what what kind is this fiction well again John I think it's all kinds because I know that they lower priced paperback lines actually either commission or a solicit work to appear in paperbacks and one of the outstanding best outstanding examples I can think of of someone doing an original paperback for one of the higher priced lines is the Martin E. Marty a history of Christianity which living -age books which is a branch of meridian brought out which is a wonderful wonderful book and it's had great success and at Chicago it's had text adoption and so on well the Richard Chase is the American tradition and the novel American novel and the tradition I forget which is originally published in published in paperback only and it's a very fine piece of literary criticism not a bestseller and incidentally I have a nephew who is a writer

Richard Vincent whose first two books have been paperbacks read of western and sing boy sing a story of rock and roll group and he's now doing a hardcover book but he's moved it's this is the old magazine this is interesting it used to be the cache of a author to be published first in hardbound and then finally in paperback and now the accolade is that he is now published in hardback that's right we have this this great array of paperback books and I imagine that is as in many of the commercial enterprises in our country the the matter of moving these books is a pretty significant significant one the matter of distributing them the matter of displaying them in your section of the of the University of Chicago bookstore Mrs. Videl how do you feel about it do you show covers on your books and is it important what do people get from a cover of a paperback book and is it indicative of what's in the book yes in

the higher price paperback you could almost call it a movement just as in the business of the long -claim record a whole new field of graphic art has been developed the paperback cover has become a matter of consideration for design and awards and judgments are being made constantly on the quality of design artwork that is given again it's packaging you know customer appeal because the good design attracts the attention first and then the content is brought to the awareness of the person who's looking at it I would think just the big element in paperback promotion and merchandising is the display of them we do something at the University of Chicago bookstore as soon as we get a shipment of new titles we stack up at the counter next to the cash register whole

piles of the new books so that everyone can see them and sometimes it's not until the books are reordered that we actually get them into the racks where ordinarily they would fit but every time you display them you sell more and more and the philosophy in the book business is that they want to face out display of titles there's another controversy which we're not particularly concerned here of shall we display them by category or shall we display them by publishers imprint which brings up something that I meant to mention that previously in hardbound books very few people are aware of publishers as such could you name the publisher of any book that you happen to have read in the last six months relatively I could but it's my business too but I know but it's even hard in hard coverage did you know that you ask people who published such in such a book and only people with who are in the writing are close to it the writing profession know this yes that's right

but with the advent of the paperbacks in all price ranges people have become aware of the publisher's imprint or the name of the line true if they ask for a book in a certain line they may not always get it right they'll come and ask for meridian it's a mentor or a pocket book and of course since we are so aware of the publisher's line because I don't know that's penguin which of course really isn't important he wants the book but at least it indicates an awareness of who is bringing these out well that that's because you have a name which just sort of catch the year a name like Alfred Kenop is the different thing from vintage vintage catches now he would know a certain anybody would know a certain book was a vintage book a paperback but he wouldn't know as Alfred Kenop no matter unless he were a little right tear how generally have you organized your books in terms of subject matter no I have it I've organized them by publisher because of my feeling about this

that the people are more are far more aware of the imprint of the book and the argument for the categorizing often is that if a person is interested in mathematics or literature or philosophy he wants all the related books in the field or at least he will be more likely to buy a related book in the field if all of the mathematics or philosophy are grouped together your section of the bookstore deals with those books which are not technically assigned for classroom use I would assume you have good many titles good many books of very interest what what kind of books do you find that University of Chicago students buy either to supplement their classroom work or for their leisure and relaxation reading of the paper bound books I think that we have as large if not larger a larger selection than anyone else in Chicago excepting perhaps Crox and Brentanos who of course has the largest but we have about

4 ,500 titles at the last counting and even though the books that are under my jurisdiction are not required for class use they still our sale of books generally reflects the interest of the active departments in the university is strong emphasis on social sciences it's no coincidence then that David reasons lonely crowd has headed the list of all of the high priced paper bound books Robert Redfield's the primitive world published by Cornell in the Cornell University example of University Press paperback publishing also has had an outstanding sale in vintage books I would say democracy in America Bert metaphysical foundations of science things like that

do you do you carry Westerns do you carry detective stories do you carry exotic adventure stories no there's no interest in Westerns haven't carried Western in 10 years and in the this old and drug stories aren't they that's right you have that difference between the bookstore trade which deals primarily with good titles you know and the drug store trade which has a number of good titles by the way I remember these very inexpensive paperbacks are good aren't they yes you can get the scarlet letter of 535 and 50 cents you can get what we they can in an abridge which is a horrible word an nasty word to use in the air an abridged edition you can get you can get a book like Storm which is an excellent book by the way by by George Stewart here for 25 35 cents in the drug store well I think perhaps this moves us into an area that I did want to talk about and that is namely what is the audience or who are the people who are buying the paperback books the answer that is simple isn't it everybody I was just going to say in one word

everybody everybody this is connected with mass education democratic literacy and in attempt to first literacy meant being able to sign your name and to be able to read I see the cap now it is beginning to mean to be able to read intelligently well the only way people can read intelligently is to have books in their hands and to read them and just that mechanical thing and the more people get the itch to read so they're uncomfortable on the subway if they don't have a book what was that when you told me about oh yeah her blocks characterizing reviewers review and this is somewhat a reflection I suppose of an author's opinion of all reviewers quoted a mythical review I have read your book on the New York subway and found it a deeply moving experience there was one point I wanted to make John know about the higher priced trend I think the emphasis on the kind of material

in the higher price paperback has influenced the quality of material that is going into the lower priced one because the classics are being more frequently reprinted in the lower price paperbacks whereas before they were only available in things like the Penguin classics line it's meant her and sign it a new American always mentor has just started a mentor classics and Dell you know has their line that tells them production the law series is a incredible achievement you should see the rest of their list for the year it's so exciting and then abandon his come up with a red in the black and all on a bridge well the question is probably in the air how can all these competitive markets succeed how can I set to thirty five cent poll compete against or forty five cent moby dick compete against the dollar twenty five moby dick well the answer that is in terms of durability I think this is a very important thing librarians incidentally don't like paperbacks you know the problem I was a like a man two years in Europe and

I know the problem of paperbacks they wear out fast especially these oh yes but you got to think of these in terms of fast production you got to think of these in terms of them of say a classroom use but they will wear oh yes and but they they these ones like these hold up fairly well but to here's a this is a choice that I used in the class last year you should be getting to wear and wear out I I use my hard back all the time most of the time but that's the trouble that's we're suggesting that a good share of the price difference is in the binding and the actual quality of and then people material of the book not of the writing necessarily people instead of buying a package of X cigarettes will well they'll buy their X cigarettes and say well here a quarter I'll buy this and stick in their pocket and they'll leave it on the in their deeply moving experience in the subway they'll leave it there and whereas they don't leave this behind a factor that you may not be aware of but that of course booksellers are aware of is that in a phrase I used in another context paperbacks are like peanuts

people can't stop buying them there is hardly any such thing as a single sale accepting perhaps to read on the subway you touched a very sore point I I have raised my budget on book buying enormously I go into this bookstore out near where I live and I buy almost the same number of hard back I used to but I pick up these peanuts because they're only a dollar and a quarter that's right and I spent I spent several hundred dollars on peanuts this is invariably true I find myself tempted to buy a paperback book when I already know I have two at home that I haven't gotten to reading and another thing yes this is true I think I think generally we're agreed that that all sorts of people are reading all sorts of paperback books I can I can extend myself perhaps and say that more people are reading today proportionately in our country than have read before and this an answer to statement that some of the media like well I won't mention them are cutting into the reading

habits of the nation on the on the contrary the reading habits of the nation are increasing it seems to me literacy is increasing why are these people buying these paperback books and reading them what does this mean they want to read and why why why why did you or I buy them originally they want to read why did they not buy them previously simply because of the expense involved partly partly a book with something you just didn't have if you can have just have them around I was lucky grew up in a home where books were happened to be around but the I know I know people who didn't grow up this way now they the part of the economic factor and I think it is the great availability of the lower priced or a book that is in the soft covers because it is lower than the hard bound book that they're there it is so easy you're stranded one end of the other of the subway or railroad or commuting line you're going to take an air trip to New York you can stop in the air station and

and you pick up the newspaper for the ending you say well wait a minute I want to read so you buy Earl Stanley Gardner or Benjamin Franklin Sampler and sticking your pocket read it on the plane and maybe you'll leave it on the plane and you quit and what would one formerly have read before the paperback who does it the newspaper gunner's only no people didn't buy hard back who done it's no I suppose they didn't know I was thinking 1500 1500 sale for most hard back who done it's circulating library no it's they well people didn't prowls so much by air before a pitchers bag my train train they bought a hardcover book and incidentally it's much less expensive for a gal going on a trip now a transatlantic trip to buy you see a book a book is a good conversation starter you have a book there and somebody next to you and say oh I see you're reading so and so and if you buy a paperback you save a lot of money that way you have a conversation starter costing five dollars much easier to have them costing a dollar and a quarter how significant is the paperback to the author is this creating opening a new world for

American authors yes indeed it is I think it's opening a whole new audience for him don't you don't you yes opening an audience but also making him economically more secure because there is additional income due to the sale of the subsidiary rights to begin with and then also to the royalties that are paid on each copy of book which aren't great but when you get a large sale at a paperback book you still have a substantial addition right I have a friend who recently sold a story to one of the national magazines for a very pretty sum a novel cereal six issues very pretty some but he said oh I'm hoping the paperbacks take this and put out five hundred thousand copies then he only gets about a half a penny or a penny a cent of copy well now that's a lot of money five hundred thousand copies well do you feel that it's significant that people are reading books regardless of of qualify what kind of books whether we might call them good books or bad books do you feel it's an occurred an encouraging sign culturally

and generally speaking for these people to be reading regardless of what it might be yes indeed I do because if they read enough eventually they will leave the light kind of reading that they may be doing if they start at that level because there comes a saturation point with this and they want something more to feed on and I think that the more people who are reading the better it is for everyone but I share your optimism but I also I have a conviction on that I we have majors at the English Department of Illinois Tech and one of the sometimes I've scolded them and said the trouble with you people and I'm not talking about just you but your colleagues you don't read enough I don't care what you read get out and read you have to have books in your hands you have to be unhappy you don't have a book thank you excuse me I'm sorry we will have to close now our half hour has very quickly departed us I want to thank you both very much for your illuminating comments about

paperback books the thoughts that our guests have expressed this morning indicate that the paperback book is indeed a very significant development on the American scene the titles of these books demonstrate the almost unlimited range of subject matter from child care to reprints of the great classics of the literary world the audience who buy these books is as varied as the titles the student the commuter the housewife the business executive the secretary all fine titles and prices to suit their many tastes and whatever those tastes may be millions are reading and they're learning to discern for themselves between the worthwhile and the less worthwhile perhaps Clifton Fadiman writing in the New York Herald Tribune summed it up best we may yet become not merely a literate people he said but a reflective one good morning for the American scene