Eyes on the Prize II; Interview with Akua Njeri / Deborah Johnson

I don't want to know how you first found out about the Black Panther Party and thought about joining it. I first found out about the Black Panther Party. My brother brought a flyer home with a Black Panther on it. It seemed like it was walking across the page and it said the Black Panthers are here. Not heard about the Black Panther Party. They were doing some things at Chicago State University and organized, trying to organize free breakfast programs in the community. I was really impressed with, I thought it was good that Black people were standing up and demanding our rights. The Black Panther Party with Fred Hampton and some other members came over to

Wright City College and I heard them speak prior to that. I had seen Fred Hampton, Bobby Rush, Iris, and I think her husband on Ronnie Barrett's Chicago show. From that, I was just really impressed with Fred. He had a really good knowledge of history. He seemed to really be sincere, believing in what he was doing. Their ideas at that time were in agreement with what I believed in and thought in terms of Black people's struggle. When Fred came over to Wright City College, it was the first time that I actually met him. I knew from seeing him on TV that I would meet him, though. I knew too that I would have a baby, his baby. Fred Hampton came over to Wright City College to speak to a group of students. I think it was sponsored by the Afro American Student Union or Black

Student Union. I forgot what it was called at that time. They came over and I tried to get some friends to go and listen to them because I didn't want to go by myself. Some of them didn't want to go. I went in and I sat down in the front and I heard Fred speak. Afterwards, I introduced myself to him. When you saw my television, what do you remember about seeing him on television? What show was Fred Hampton and Bobby Russian. They were on Ronnie Barrett's Chicago show and it really impressed me. In addition to the conversation they were having talking about the party's program, how the Black Panther Party got started, Ronnie Barrett seemed to be trying to cut Fred off and lead him in a certain direction with the conversation. Fred just took over and he was determined that he was going to get his point across in terms of the programs that the party was involved in. Ronnie Barrett said, we'll break and we'll be back with somebody else. They broke

and of course, Fred wasn't through talking. So, Fred was after the break, still talking about the Black Panther Party. I said, wow, these are some bad brothers and sisters. I want to be a part of that. Fred was very dynamic, charismatic. I think the success of his leadership, not only in being charismatic, but being a very personable person. Fred believed in what he was doing and the sincerity came across. He would never tell anybody, well, listen, brother, you can sell these papers. Well, listen, sister, you can sell 200 papers. Fred would get out there. Although he was the leader of the party in the state of Illinois, he would get out there and in the middle of the street, hey, sister, you want to buy a Black Panther newspaper? This is the people's party and he would just engage people in conversation and just to see that to be

a part of that, like, send chills. It was a really good feeling. What were some of the programs that you were personally involved with and how did it make you feel to be part of those programs? What were you able to accomplish during the time you were in the party? Some of the things that I was involved in, the programs that the Black Panther Party had, were they had a free breakfast program and we would go to various community centers, churches, and ask people if we could have this program for kids to feed kids before they went to school. We would solicit donations from various companies, various stores, and we would feed the kids. The beautiful thing about that program was that nobody had to fill out a form. Nobody had to let us know was their father at home, did their mother work, what their income was, or what did they eat last night for dinner? The program was just there to serve the community

and that was the beauty of it. People basically, I think, shy away from programs, when you got to go through all that bureaucracy and we didn't involve people in that. Also, we had a free Spurgeon Jake Winner's Free Medical Center that was on the west side. I was involved in door-to-door canvassing, having people fill out questionnaires, soliciting doctors to volunteer time and donations, monetary, or medical supplies. Whatever anybody could give volunteers to work at the medical center and whatever people were willing to give, it was acceptable to us. You did not have to be a Black Panther to give something to the community and everybody had a talent or something that they can give back. Black Panther Party also had a free prison busing program and that families of people that were incarcerated in prisons and jails throughout Illinois and some Michigan prisons also would be allowed, we would take a bus trip

to these prisons in jail two or three times a week. If there was a charge, if people could afford it, it would be minimal in terms of the gas or whatever. We thought it was very important that while these brothers were incarcerated, they um... We were just running out of film and you are doing really well. Did that mean... You were telling me about Fred giving speeches once and you telling me about a speech he gave about Sunday will be together? Can you describe that? Another beautiful thing about Fred Hampton was he was such a great speaker and he really moved you to want to participate and you could come to a rally and say, well I don't know about

these Black Panthers, I've read that they have guns, I read that they show people, I read that they want to kill so many people a week, but you go to a rally and you hear Fred Hampton talking about the programs, you just be so, you get so excited about it. I remember we were at the People's Church on Ashland and um... there was a record by Diana Ross in the Supreme, some day we'll be together and that was playing in the background and Fred Hampton was doing the speech, Chairman Fred was doing the speech talking about naming the people in a party that had been murdered, been killed, who had died in the People's Liberation Struggle. He went on naming these people in the contributions they made to the community and saying, someday we'll be together in the revolutionary happy hunting ground. It was just so beautiful and people were just, you can see the fire and people's eyes, they were just really excited, they wanted to be a part of this and they were like, well I got a job but whatever I can do for my, they were really to help myself,

I'm a black person, I need to help myself in my community and everybody, all ethnic groups were there, rich poor, of course there were police there too, you know listening to what Fred Hampton had to say, but people from poor white communities, they were just fired up and you know Fred would direct them, he talked to people after the rally, it's a direct them to, well you can work with the young patriots or in an uptown area, you can work with the young lords, see the Hispanic group, or you could work with whatever, but we need everybody to participate because this is the People's Liberation Struggle. How did the speech, the Fred Day game, with that music go? What were some of the things he said about? Who was going to be together? How did he mix that with? How did he go? I don't remember how Fred's speech went word for word, but when he was used the Diana Ross and the Supreme, some day we'll be together, but he did say who he was in

jail at the time and he said some day we'll be together with our minister of defense, Huipi Newton, who put a stop sign on the corner because the young brothers and sisters were getting killed at that corner, some day we'll be together with our printer's bunchie Carter who was killed in the People's Liberation Struggle fighting for the people, living for the people, he died for the people and he went on to name some day we'll be together with Nate Junior, you know, and he just went on to name people and it was just really, it was beautiful, it was beautiful and you got the sense that these brothers and sisters that had went on before, whether they were incarcerated or had been murdered, somehow their spirit was still with us encouraging us on, you know, to give us strength to go on and continue fighting because we want the right path. How did the party, how did the party members in Chicago coped when it seemed like the police were coming down by sending Fred to

prison? I mean what happened? At the time Fred went to prison, there was a lot of confusion in the party here although actually theoretically Fred was not the leader of the Black Panther Party in terms of rank Bobby Rush was but Fred was in reality the leader because people identified with him the way Fred presented the party's program and as I said before his enthusiasm for what he was doing people just seemed to catch on to that and really get fired up. When Fred went to prison there was a lot of dissension in the party some people a lot of people didn't have faith in the leadership that was in place there the belief in the sincerity level of some of the people that were in leadership positions was really question you know and I think that's one of the problems with our organizations is that we latch on to dynamic personalities and there aren't a number of

leaders to come in in case someone is murdered in case someone is incarcerated and the leadership was not there at the time the Fred went to prison fortunately although it was a long time him being incarcerated it wasn't years that he was incarcerated so the party managed once he got out of prison managed to pull back together. You brought up that sense that the police were kind of there a lot how did you first become aware that the police and we're surrounding the party in some ways I think everyone that was in the Black Panther Party kind of understood it was a given that we would have wiretaps that we would be followed that we would be harassed we'd be locked up that we would even be beaten by the police we felt that in a country such as America where that was supposedly the wealthiest country in the world people should not be hungry the people

should have a right to a decent housing full employment and Black people and poor minority people should not be the victims of a judicial system we felt that this country was in a position to correct those wrongs was not doing it and that anybody that was on the path of liberating the community making those things happen in the community feeding people clothing people educating people to what was going on in their community and things that they had a right to we knew that we would be harassed and we would be victims of surveillance but that was something that we kept in the back of our heads but it wasn't like we got up every day saying oh my god the police are going to be outside my door because that will like paralyze you can't move because the fear will have you where you're like oh I can't do this I'll go to jail we focused on what we needed to do and we did that um of course when you pick up the phone and you hear conversation in the back

and you don't have a party line and it's one phone in your house you hear a dialing or hear like a tape machine going then you know you walk out police car a marked police car is there or somebody an unmarked car that does not belong in that community at all you know you know that you're being watched it happened a number of times a number of times when we would leave the Black Panther office on 2350 West Madison police cars would follow us the telephone in the Black Panther office you can hear the tape machines going you can hear the clicking you would hang up and walk away from the phone and go back and still hear that same clicking the lines had not been disconnected people would follow members of the Black Panther party home and not only us some people were afraid to even come into the office that were not members of the party because they would get followed police would come and ask them questions about what is this

is off the record what is your association with the Black Panther party do you know this person and they had pictures of some of us you know do you know this person what rank do they have what do they do in the Black Panther party we also knew that when we had rallies that police officers would come not of course wearing uniforms but trying to blend into the crowd but it was uncomfortable feeling you could tell they were out of place you know even they have sent Black officers to our rallies to our meetings and you can tell that they don't belong now I'm not going to sit here and say that paranoia we were not afraid and it didn't mean anything of course it did but we didn't let that immobilize us or stop us from what we didn't focus we tried not to focus on that we knew what we had to do you tell me one story though about witnessing a raid on the office that you had to walk right by do you remember that one day one day I remember particularly when there was a raid on the office I was walking past the office going to the office as a matter of fact

and I see the policemen jumping out of the police car and I'm really concentrating hard on not showing any emotion that I'm not connected with this because the fear was there that they might just start shooting oh there goes a Black Panther they shoot her and I remember just thinking some places totally removed from where I was and walking past there they're shooting shooting up the office and then I walk down the street and I come back you know just like I'm just casually walking down the street they're dragging people out and beating them and fighting back the tears I don't want to cry because I don't want them to know that I'm a part of this because I know I have to call somebody and let them know that these people have been arrested and what happened with this raid so I guess all of that is to say you know things are going on around you but you have to be able to take yourself out of that place and do what you got to do is necessary for your own survival

okay okay you know the the night of December the third did you go to the political education class it was being held that night on the night of December 3rd 1969 there was a political orientation class held at the people's church I didn't attend the class I was at home that night and Fred

was to come home after the class was over and we were to go out to his mother's house of course the class went on and on and then some of the people ended up going back to the office at this time I was still at home waiting on Fred and I would talk to him at different times he kept telling me I'll be there in a few minutes I'll be there in a few minutes which I know what could go on forever and the last time he called me I said Fred we have to go out to your mother's house and he said okay I'm coming um prior to that I had um went over to a friend's house Fred was going to meet me there pick me up at my friend's house and we would go out to his mother's for dinner when I talked him the last time he said well it's so late do you really want to go if we spend a night out there we can't sleep together I say oh definitely not we cannot go so Fred had someone come and

pick me up for my friend's house and bring me back um William O'Neill who was the police informant either drop me at the friend's house or pick me up from there to bring me back home um I came back home and was home for a little while then Fred eventually came and so I played like I was mad because we didn't go to his mother's house and he made an issue well we can still say no that's okay we'll stay here so we went um I went back to our bedroom and Fred came back there after talking to some people for a while they were in the apartment who was at the apartment at that point um as a time that I went back to the back bedroom um Harold Bell was there Lewis true like was there one another brother was there I think he was from rockford I don't don't really remember

but other than Harold Bell from rockford it was another brother there and um some other people that had went to the political education class had stopped by the house or he had either brought home Fred Fred home I think I remember seeing Ronald Satchel there um Fred was talking and I'm like really tired and he says okay you go to the back I'll be back to the room soon um go back to the room and I go to sleep right off a few minutes then Fred comes back and we talk a little bit and then we call his mother to tell her that we're not coming it's so late and we talk to sister also on the phone Fred at that time fell asleep in the middle of conversation with his mother and I couldn't wake him up I talked to them told him goodbye and hung up the phone um how were you walking up the next morning the first thing I remember after Fred and I had went to sleep

was being awakened by somebody shaking Fred what we were laying in bed and chairman chairman wake up the pigs are vaping the pigs are vaping and um about the same time I looked up and I see what appeared to be flashes of light and light going across the front the entrance way to the back bed room some were going from the south I guess in some towards the north but it looks look like a million flashes of light because the apartment was pretty much dark um I rolled over to Fred's I rolled over to Fred he still hadn't moved at this point as I recall I rolled over and then slid down to Fred's right side so that put me closest to the wall in the bedroom the bed was pushed against the wall um Fred at some point raised his head up looked

out towards the entrance way to the bedroom and laid his head back down that's all the movement that Fred Hampton had that night um someone else was in in the room with me and kept yelling out stop shooting stop shooting we have a pregnant sister in here we want to come out oh they stopped shooting for a while then they started back shooting again this person that was in the room with me kept shouting out we have a pregnant sister in here stop shooting eventually this shooting stop and they say we could come out I remember across and over Fred and telling myself over and over be real careful don't stumble they'll try to shoot you just be real calm watch how you walk keep your hands up don't reach for anything don't even try to close your road walking out of the bed roll near two lines of policemen I have to

walk through on my right and my left I remember focusing on their badge numbers and their faces and saying them over and over my head so I wouldn't forget um as I walk through this these two lines of policemen one of them grabbed my robe and opened and say oh what do you know we have a broad here another policeman grabbed me by the hair and pretty much just shoved me had more hair than pretty much just shoved me into the kitchen area um it was very cold that night I guess that it snowed and the back door was open some people were on the floor in the kitchen area I think it was Harold Bill was standing next to me in the kitchen area they um it was a police plain clothes policeman there and asked him for a pin to like a pin my robe because it was just

open and he said that's the other guy and um then somebody came back and handcuffed me and Harold Bill behind her back I heard a voice come from the area um I guess from the dining room area which was the kitchen was off from that area and someone said he's barely alive he'll barely make it the she I heard some shooting start again not much just a little shooting and um then someone said he's good and dead now um I'm standing at the um kitchen wall and I'm trying to remember details of these policemen's face sit over and over my head and and badge numbers so got to remember you got to remember and then when I felt like I was just going to really just pass out I started saying a 10 point program over and over my head um

at one point I turned around the shooting and continued again and I saw the police drag Verlina Brewer and threw her into the refrigerator and it looked like blood was all over her and she fell to the floor they picked her up and threw her in again and saw Rhino Satchel bleeding I kept trying to focus on the 10 point program platform because I again wanted to take myself out of that place and I knew I just couldn't break down there because I didn't know if I would be killed or what would happen um no no I didn't see Fred's body as I left the apartment as they took us out of the apartment towards the front I made a point not to look in that direction I was afraid of what I would see and I didn't know what I would do if I saw Fred there a bloody or dead so I didn't look down I didn't look around I just looked straight ahead and really concentrated

on walking straight not stumbling really lifted my feet up you know so that I wouldn't fall and they wouldn't say oh she tried to escape or something they took us down the stairs and put us in a patty wagon the police did and they took us to I think Wood Street District um the policeman there one policeman came in they kind of tried to play this good cop back cop role one cop was real mean and other one was nice and well you can talk to me and this sort of thing and uh reporter came in from the uh tribune asked him what paper he was with he said the tribune he wanted to talk to me about what had happened and I told him there's only one thing you have to print in your story and as fascism and do you know how to spell it he got really mad and stormed out of the room um they took us to I think 12th Street um at the time we were they put me in a different patty wagon I guess they took the man and one and me and another

at the time um all this time I just had a robins and uh some house shoes a lot in the snow in the cold uh I was handcuffed behind my back when they got me out of the um patty wagon the police officer janitor revolver to my stomach and said you better not try to escape and all I could think about was can't fall look out for eyes you can't fall because if you do your dead and I just really made myself walk straight and not stumble because I knew I just knew I was like oh please just let me make it to wherever they're taking me don't let me fall and that that was really important to me at that time they took us to okay I know it's sort of hard to talk about but can you describe one more time how you were woken up the morning as the raid started what happened on the morning of December 4 1969 I remember being awakened by someone coming into the back

bedroom shaking Fred saying chairman chairman wake up the pigs of vamping remember looking up and seeing flashes of light going across the entrance way to the back bedroom that we were in um from I guess the south and the north and it looks like just millions of flashes of light just going across the front of the entrance way to the bedroom I heard sounded like a machine gun then I heard individual uh single shots also and then it sounded like I heard shotguns also handguns and shotguns but I remember hearing rapid fire like a machine gun um I didn't try to wake Fred I all I could think about was covering him and he wasn't waking I saw

the person I don't remember who that was but I saw the person shaking Fred his arms were like folded and he was like like this shaking him chairman chairman wake up and he he wasn't responding at all and I don't don't know what I was thinking was like moved over to cover him and then he still didn't move and I slid over to his right side and I think at that point he lifted his head kind of he was like this lifted his head up and looked up towards the door but he didn't move his body at all and then he just laid his head back down like this at that point I don't know if Fred was shot or anything I don't remember whether or not there was any blood on me or my clothing I just remember him lifting his head up and looking out of the door entrance way

the other person that was Fred and no time ever got out of the bed or or made any other movement other than to move his head up the person that was in the room with us they kept shouting out stop shooting stop shooting we have a pregnant woman pregnant sister in here the shooting stuff was seconded and it started back up eventually they stopped shooting and because the person kept screaming we're coming out with our hands up stop shooting and remember crossing over Fred at this point I had moved over towards the wall which the bed was pushed against the wall in the room and I crossed over Fred but I didn't really look at him I think I was afraid too when I was in the kitchen I heard a voice unfamiliar voice say he's barely alive or he'll barely make it then the shooting started back again then I heard the same unfamiliar voice say

he's good and dead now and I knew in my mind they were I assume they were talking about Fred and I knew when I left out of there I couldn't look towards the room and I kept trying to remember over and over in my head the badge numbers that I had looked at as I came out the room through the two lines of policemen that were at the entrance away and trying to remember details of facial features that I had seen in these police officers that I wouldn't forget you know later on so I could tell somebody what happened when they locked me up at the police station they I kept begging him for a call to make one call and say it by law I'm entitled to make one call I called I think the office the black panther office and I spoke to Bobby Rush and he told me

that Fred was dead Fred had been killed work okay you know when you got out of jail what kind of things were organized in the community to try to bring the community together and and find some strength around this terrible tragedy what what things did you participate in and what other things were happening to panther members of that after we had been arrested and charged with I think I was charged with two counts of attempted murder and aggravated assault other people were charged with assault with deadly weapon and attempted murder aggravated assault other people meaning the occupants of the apartment at 2337

um we were charged with various things and the party was very sincere about making sure I got out first because I was pregnant and could possibly have my baby at any time due to the stress and everything that had happened um we had people that came from out of state everywhere just do you need anything um can we work to raise money for bail can we make donations what what can we do people came from everywhere we solicited money from the black panther parties listed money from people that made donations from going around to schools to churches every place you could think of entertainers anything everything you could think of in order to get money to raise money for our bill and of course our families gave whatever they could they got me out of

jail first I went some people that very close with Fred gave me money and whatever you need to do with this in terms of your survival or in terms of other people's bond money and I turned it over for by money because other people were stealing jail I went to the high school that I had graduated from to see who I can talk to about um you got out of prison what kind of support have people organized for you in the community how are how are people responding and coping and dealing after I got out of jail people came from everywhere to contribute whatever they could whether it was money time or just volunteering answering the phones and calling people trying to get money um to get us to raise our bond money they had rallies all over uh California chapters sent us money

everybody sent us money or whatever they could donate in terms of getting this out because one thing that was going on which I thought was really beautiful they were taking people members of Black Panther Party were taking people from a community through the apartment so they can actually see what was going on um most of the newspaper accounts um said that the police were met by a vicious attack by the Black Panther Party and the police were the victims not the Black Panther Party people were able to go through the house and they were lined up all around the block in the cold and wintertime to see what what actually happened and anybody that went through that apartment could see that it was in fact not a vicious attack by the Black Panther Party on a police department but that people had been brutally killed and that was evident from just going through the apartment with the trajectories of the bullet holes and how the beds were shot up and the

door also and they also had somebody from the party taking people through explaining this room who was here and what actually happened here now in the weeks and months that followed I gather you made a decision you and and the other survivors of the raid made a decision not to testify as part of the grand jury request do we call that and how you made that decision and why can you tell me about that yes um the survivors as we came to be known of the December 4th uh raid at the apartment made a conscious decision not to participate in the grand jury investigation because we felt that we would get no justice through this investigation that the intent of this grand jury was not to really see what was going on I just remembered something that I forgot about that um grand jury investigation which really even further submitted in my mind that I did not need to

participate in this I was sitting there and I was refusing to answer um I forgot on what grounds what legal grounds I refused to answer okay okay I had I was sitting at the grand jury investigation and had decided prior to being there that I would not participate in this investigation in terms of answering questions and uh because I really felt this grand jury was not actually seeking the truth to find out what actually happened in the apartment uh what further submitted my belief that they were not actually trying to find out the truth while sitting there after they questioned me and I refused to answer on certain legal grounds at which point I don't remember exactly uh one of the officers of the court there was in the courtroom brought a bag out with the blankets

that were on our bed with blood on it and I felt at that time these people are trying to drive me crazy you're not going to do it you know and I just what did I change one more time okay and just let you do you have something more okay what what happened at that grand jury in quest and and and how did it steal your resolve um I had decided prior to going to the grand jury investigation that I would not participate because I felt that the grand jury was not actually seeking to find out the truth about what actually happened in the apartment but further submitted my resolve not to participate in this grand jury investigation while I was being questioned at some point some officer of the court brought in this big plastic bag with the blankets from the bed that Fred and I were in and had

blood on it and they just sat the bag down in front of me and I remember thinking these people are not gonna drive me crazy I'm not gonna focus on this but that was like you don't have to feel any guilt about not participating in this you're doing the right thing and that gave me encouragement and more resolve and not participating in this I want to go back something we were talking about earlier and remembering the way you had a growing awareness of the the police and the police surveillance and ask you what you thought at the time about who was who was behind what the police were doing what kind of feelings did you have why did you believe what did you and other people in the party believe at the time we were in the black panther party in 1969 we knew that we were being watched that our phones were tapped that we were being followed that we would be they would probably

look up people that we had went to first grade with to ask them about us but we really couldn't focus on that we we didn't let that stop us from what we needed to do um a lot of the things that we said about the police keeping files on people that were involved in the movement about police surveillance um some of our some of the people that I guess we labeled pseudo liberals all those crazy black panthers they imagine they're paranoid some people that were let's say not didn't have a revolutionary concept of what we needed to do that were felt that they could work within the system show America their evils and things would be changed automatically once America became aware of what they were doing thought we were just a bunch of ranting and raving scared kids you know creating in our minds things that weren't actually happening but however it did come to light that

files were kept on people that participated in the movement you didn't have to be a black panther you can just go in the office to get some free clothes that we were given away are getting getting free food and somebody could come and ask you well who was up there who did you talk to who was this person have you seen this person before what does they do did they say anything to you you know and you didn't have to be part of the black panther party in order to be harassed or to be have your phones wiretap if you got called more than twice your phone could have been tapped a lot of times we pick up the phone and we hear tape recorder going and we hear people talking in the background we didn't have a party line and we'll be followed thinking back on all of this I think what really fired me up about the black panther party

and it all had to do with my brother bringing me the sign saying the black panther's are here seeing them on television here in Fred speak hearing about the programs that they were doing it was that in my mind at this time black people's freedom and poor and oppressed people's freedom was not dependent upon the goodwill or the good nature of our oppressor that we had the power to determine our own destiny and the black panther party and everything that they were doing said that to me that now at this point in my life I have some control over what my future is you know and not going to someone that's a system that's oppressing me denying me not individually collectively education housing clothing justice and peace I don't have to say can I have this I have a right to fight for that and to get those things and I could make a

difference and affect a change in the society so I think that's what really fired me up about the black panther party and really made me excited about working with them of course Fred Hampton gave that to people when he spoke and everybody could not you know bring that across everybody is not a speaker and everybody cannot convince you of their sincerity without putting an effort into convincing you you just see it and everything they do and everything they say but oh that's a plane again

one thing that the main thing I guess that I remember what really got me fired up about the black panther party was it spoke to it said that no longer do we have to depend on the goodwill of those that are oppressing us or denying us basic our basic freedom we're not dependent on them to give us what we need to survive in this country we have the power to determine our own destiny that we have a right to fight and demand those things and not only just with my brother bringing the flyer home with the black panther on it that appeared to be walking across the page not only with seen Fred on the talk show and hearing him speak and all of this spoke to that that we had the power to determine our own destiny of course everybody cannot just speak and fire people up

and have them believing in your sincerity that you really believe in what you're doing but Fred couldn't do that he could really bring it across without really putting an effort in trying to convince you you just saw him work you heard him speak and you knew that he believed in and you believed it too because you just get really dedicated about it because you're serious you're about taking care of serious business and that's what it was it wasn't a game one other thing I want to say a couple other things I remember when I was in jail going to court for the bond hearing for myself remember looking out of this window and seeing my brother and he's saying right on sister and that and I felt so down like I was a band and I didn't know if I was going to be killed if my baby was going to be killed and seeing my brother stand out there seeing right on sister that really made me feel good also when I was in jail I was not going to let them search me you know how they search you for drugs in case you put them inside your body and it was a major in there she was

real rough looking I was just you're not going to search me and they said put her in the hole and I was terrified because I heard all these stories about the hole where it's a little room with a hole in the ground and it's rats running around and all this and so I let them search me but I really didn't want to do that and talking about this reminded me of that