The American Scene; The Artistry of the Film

Good morning, this is Howard Vincent, viewing the arts for the American Scene by Illinois Institute of Technology. I keep talking about the diversity of the arts, you can't get around to all of them, even in the number of programs we've had, but we're going to take up a different one today. That is the film. Now, the film is rather a large subject, we can't take up all the film in half an hour. In fact, as we can't even take up the limited section of the film, we're going to take up in a half hour, but we're going to at least touch upon the film festival. And to talk about this, to find out about this, because I know, as little about the subject as some of you out there, some of you perhaps may know a great deal about it, I've asked Bruce Trends to talk about it, to discuss it with us. And you will find out why I've asked him, because that'll emerge very shortly. He's a man who is best qualified in the city to discuss this problem with the film festival. Bruce, first of all, would you tell me

what is a film festival? Well, generally, I would say it's an attempt to group a number of pictures together, outstanding pictures, to present the film at its best, to enable people to see, and at one fell swoop, as it were, a series of outstanding movies, and to get a general idea of what the screen is trying to do as an art form. Well, now, to a three thing, right there. First place, there are various ways of grouping them out there. You can group them historically or according to aesthetic quality? Yes, that's true. The recognized international film festivals, usually, try to get current outstanding pictures from all over the world, and they allow each country to add or one or two pictures, to, in other words, to survey the entire world scene. Well, that's another thing. Now, here in the city, what

do you have to do with film festivals? Well, I operate the Clark Theatre, and every month we have a weekend film festival, runs Friday through Sunday, in which we have a special category of film. For example, our festival for June was a drama festival, pictures based on outstanding plays. And in the past and in months to come, we have had comedy festivals and music festivals. Well, you see, now there, your grouping is not just outstanding film, outstanding around a certain theme, comedy drama, and so on. And, for instance, this weekend, this weekend you have listed here, the program, the 10th, 11th, and 12th, you have Desire Under the Elms, the Devil's Disciple, Stalaic 17, the country girl, suddenly last

summer, Edepus Rex. Now, there's a pocketful for you. Well, I think so. We think it's quite an outstanding program. How long have you been doing this? Well, we started in 1952 with our first film festival, the first one ran 15 days. And unfortunately, after a while, we found that it was a little difficult to sustain the interest for that long period. So we find that if we do this more often and have them of shorter duration, they attract much more attention, and people find themselves better equipped to keep up with them, because changing every day, why we find that people aren't just aren't able to come in every day for 15 days, for example. That's why the weekend gives people more of an opportunity to see these outstanding pictures. That's a pretty strategic time to have it, too, isn't it? The weekend, the relax, the wanting amusement, and the willingness to, having the time to

see something which they have thought about and seen before. Lots of people go, they've seen them already, of course. Well, there are many people who will see pictures again and again, in particular favorites, or something that is a special interest to them. Well, I know, to me, a film festival means an opportunity, not merely to see something again, because that doesn't excite me so much as to see the many things I miss that catch up on them, because you know how a film comes out and hits the loop theaters and goes out to the neighborhood, and then disappears apparently. It goes through very quickly, and there isn't too much of the business of bringing them back anymore. I think we're kind of unique at the Clark in that field. Excellent. Are there any other theaters in town that do this? Very much. It has been done from time to time on a limited basis by other theaters, but I think we're the only ones who have done it consistently and stuck with it. Now this is a festival in a single theater,

but what about the festival that, what am I getting at here? The festival, such as the Com Festival, the International Festivals, and the... Well, those, of course, are international competitions for prizes and various categories. And they have been very successful. I think they've attracted a great deal of attention from the newspapers, and they track tourists, and people in the film business from all over the world visit the festivals. In fact, as I recall in France, the one that can is very fine at attracting films, but it also attracts a lot of publicity seekers, and there's a tremendous amount of really third -rate, hoax -pocus that goes on down there. Not the films fall, it's the people who go down there, they're seeking cameras. Well, yes, I think that's true, but don't you think that's true of anything? Yes, sure it is. You may have hangers. That's right.

Yes. Well, it acts to grind and take advantage of it. Well, quite right. What are the big, what are the big competitive festivals in this country? Well, we have one in San Francisco, the San Francisco Film Festival, and then there are... What does that take place? You easily. That takes place in the fall. In the fall. And... Is that international in scope? Yes, it is. And does it have a fairly good status in the... Well, they're struggling for status. Apparently, the American film industry has not really gotten behind it the way the people who are running the festival feel they should. Well, I haven't there. I should think this would be to their advantage. Well, unfortunately, there are commercial considerations that come before the considerations of art. Oh, yes, always. At the arts. Yes. But the awards there, what do they call them at the San Francisco Film Festival? The Golden Gate Awards. The Golden Gate. The appropriate. Yes. Well, that's the biggest

one in this country. Yes. Of course, there's the Golden Real Film Festival, which is for non -entertainment for the... Well, that's here in the documentary. Well, that has been held here. I think it was held in Edinburgh one year, as I recall. Well, they hold it around, do they? Yes. But the headquarters of the Golden Real is in Evanston. In Evanston? Yes. Paul Wagner, I know. That's right. Yes, and sorry to it. It's a fascinating... I attended one of those once, and I came out real... Excuse me. I didn't mean that. I came out spinning from the business, saying dozens of, of course, short films, documentaries, commercials and so on. They're very attractive to some of them. Yes. Well, I think that in itself is a tremendous field. One of the big differences between this kind of San Francisco Festival and the Golden Real and the one you put on is that these are new films, which are in competition for prizes. That's correct. And these are the achieved films. That, that's exactly

the two kinds of festivals. Are there any other kinds? Well, there are some that are limited to specific things, such as films about art and others and visual aids, and there are all kinds of festivals, major and minor. Is there a festival? Did I see this? A festival of advertising films, commercial? I believe you're correct. And the prize is given for that? Yes. And there are festivals in the educational film field, and they write them down into many categories. Or is this sometimes spending a little bit fine because some of these films cross over in other categories, don't they? Yes, they do. I can act film be sheer entertainment. Well, I think it can. That Picasso film. And now I granted that was an entertainment for the billions, but it was a very entertaining film. And now it was an hour and a quarter, Picasso painting the pictures on fascinating experiences. Yes, well. If you're

interested in that sort of thing. Well, I think almost anybody really would be interested in seeing the technique of painting. And I think everyone has some urge to paint or draw or express themselves in that. You would think they would, but I saw a number of people walk, well, maybe they're walking out because they'd seen that far. But no. Well, excuse me, I was interrupting here. The cross, these various kinds of festivals, but the main one, of course, we're concerned with is the great commercial one. Now, and the kind is the greatest, isn't the kind in the Venice, the Berlin. Well, the Venice, the Berlin, and now, of course, the San Francisco. Is there any chance you can get one of these going here in Chicago? Well, there has been some talk about it. And a couple of years ago, a committee was appointed to investigate it. Whether the committee ever met, I don't know. How much progress was made. Again, I don't know because it just seemed to evaporate. I do feel that it would be a wonderful thing to have one in conjunction, for example, with

the trade fair, the international trade fair. I think it would be most appropriate to have a film festival connected with that. What do you, well, can't we promote this? Well, I'm all for it. So we started movement. Yes, sir. Maybe we ought to ask people to write in, and that's our support. It would be very fun. They were moral support. They're moral support, certainly. Isn't it true that this city, I won't say it started the motion picture, but it wasn't one of the earliest stages here? Yes. The old S &A studios were here, and some of the most famous artists and actors and producers in the motion picture industry got their starts here. And now we have nothing. Well, we have the commercial film, we have it. And there have been, from time to time, a few entertainment films produced here, there was one produced by a group here recently, and I understand that now there is a documentary film being made for release

two theaters and also another feature film in the works. Oh, really? Who's doing that to you? Well, the producer of the feature film is man named Herschel Lewis, and Charles Tidal, who is also a film distributor, is producing the documentary film, the subject of which I do not know. Of course, some of the schools produce films privately, and out there, Illinois Tech, the institute of design is the case, they put out a documentary film as part of their work in photography, but that's, of course, very special. What effect does television have on these festivals upon the movies? This is a big question. Well, I'd like to clear up the question, do you mean on the movie production, or on exhibition? On exhibition, let's put it that way, that's your... Well, we have found that people are more selective since the advent of television, whereas there was the

habitual movie goer. Like once a week, Saturday night, well, let's go to the movies, and they go to the local theater, the downtown theater, and not even stop possibly to look in the papers, because they knew that a new picture was there, and it was something they hadn't seen. Now I think they go to see specific pictures. Then you mean, this is because on television you have the late show, and the late late show, and the late late late shows, so they can see all the ordinary running pictures there, the dope pictures, excuse me, the pictures which they just see just as a kind of dull habit, and then their selectivity goes out when they go out of the house. I think so. I think it's a little deeper than that, though. I think there's also other entertainment on television. I believe there is. If they stay, if they're interested in something specific, they won't go out, but it takes something of specific interest, I feel, to get people out these days.

So that is, in fact, sharpening the exhibition of films. Well, let us say that it should have. I feel that we're not doing all we can in the exhibition field to take advantage, or to turn this to our advantage. Which should you do? Well, I feel that we must make our theaters more comfortable. We must inform the public about what they are going to see, in other words, without giving it away, but at least inform them what kind of entertainment we have to whom it is directed, who the people are, who made the pictures, and so forth. In other words, I feel that the public just isn't being well enough informed about our product, and I feel that we must package it more attractively, too. And how will you do that? Well, one of our answers, of course, has been the film festival. Yes, who we have. And

we have also done other things in the way of providing special services, such as mailing a monthly bulletin to everyone who requests it, informing people about the pictures we're going to play, and telling them a little in advance about them. Well, now, this raises a problem of taste. You say they're more selector, that means they're developing taste. You think these film festivals have been a primary developer of taste, of an aesthetic sense of a discrimination, or has it been that another fact is? Well, I don't think the film festivals in themselves are of sufficient importance to affect taste. The festivals, the international festivals certainly have more importance on the scene than our festivals at the Clark. Oh, yes. For Chicago, however, I feel we are doing a little something in that

direction. I think that the festivals probably reflect taste rather than lead it, and as far as television is concerned, sharpening taste, I feel that the more entertainment people are exposed to, the more selective they will become, because everyone, I think, feels that he's an expert in the field of entertainment. Yes, oh, surely everyone is. But you have now a question of people regard film festivals, and there's some confusion between film festivals, your present art theaters. Well, the art theater, which is a kind of vague name for these particular theaters, is one that shows many foreign films, probably predominantly foreign films, and a few American films of an unusual or offbeat nature,

films that perhaps wouldn't be commercially successful in the regular run of theater. I feel that, and I read an article recently by one of the distributors who agrees that there is not sufficient showing of these foreign and offbeat films. That's probably a problem of the channels of distribution, isn't it? Yes, and it's a problem too for the exhibitor. In many instances, a great departure for him to run a foreign language film, and some have tried them, and have been very unsuccessful with them, and once burned twice shy. Yes, well, I should think of a city like Chicago with a big foreign, well, that didn't it alone, a big foreign element, and good dubbing and all that, there'd be quite an audience. Well, I should think so too, and as a matter of fact, as a

reflection, this is probably just one straw in the wind, at the clerk, we used to show nothing but action pictures, western gangster pictures, and so forth. We have gradually changed the tone of the theater, of the pictures we show, and our selections now tend to be on a much more Catholic basis. We show everything. We show foreign films, American films, action, romance, and we sometimes possibly go overboard. Well, to criterion should be not, is it a foreign film, or a local film, or whatever you wish, is it a good film, and of course a word good there is a very provocative word, but takes such films as, which are usually shown in small theaters, and were at first the early Alley Guinness ones, the kindhearts and carnets, and then it caught on a public and an Alley Guinness caught on, but

films like that are just as entertaining as, let's say, something like it hot, or which is an entertaining film, let's go ahead, but that was certainly entertaining as any of them. Yet, because of the means of distribution, it didn't get into them. I think so, because of the, for one thing, there has been some serious objection on the part of the American public in the past, and there still is some to British dialogue. In what I say, in many instances find it very difficult to understand, and I must admit that in some of them that are made specifically for British distribution, and not for overseas distribution, I find it rather difficult for myself. But it was also rather difficult to understand some of the early brand, though, mumbling out of the corner of his mouth, the method, the method, oh yes, but now, it seems to me a very, almost a comic situation, a connection with the foreign film, the attitude toward the foreign film is something, the attitude that used to be towards foreign novels,

those foreigners, a little strange, they deal with dark and hidden things, and they're not, this isn't healthy and good, common sense art. Maybe it's a bourgeois attitude that I'm talking about, and you find it also in the foreign country. But there has been that attitude towards the foreign film, it seems to me, and maybe that's in it. But, of course, the films that get noticed in the festivals, they're so often foreign films. They get the prizes. And of course, I think the American films, and well, look, the desire under the alms, and suddenly last summer. Said me last summer, yes, they said me are, and a lot of people are objecting to that. Well, wrongly, I think one might object from his own critical point of view in other words. But if they're done badly, all right, but if they're done well, well, look at Hamlet Treats. Hamlet is, if Hamlet were properly filmed, it would be really a

shocker. Well, isn't the real difference between pornography and adult treatment actually a matter of taste? It's a matter of taste and handling. We should not have been able to get into this. This is a program that itself had the most contentious and difficult one. What about the Academy Awards? Is that a film festival? No, it's hard to say. Well, it is, in a way, these films are shown to the members of the Academy. They have special showings for them. And then the members of the Academy vote for the winners in specific categories. It really is more a pin of self -price than a film festival because the very people who are involved in the thing are patting themselves on the back, which I don't think is too bad a thing. I mean, it's certainly nice to have recognition from the people who are working in the same field you are. In fact, perhaps it would be a good idea for the exhibitors to have some kind of award

for the best run of the theaters and the most tastefully presented programs and so forth. Competition, that's hard. It's very good to have. It's really seemingly. But I grant that the Academy Award business is a narcissistic business. You see it and you get tired of, you feel you're in a nightmare after a time. Well, of course, commercially, it's a very successful thing. It certainly brings the movies forcefully to the attention of many millions of people all over the world. What is the utility of a film festival in the effect upon the producers and does it have any effect upon them, upon Hollywood or... Well, I think the festivals and the Academy Awards, too, are goals both artistically and commercially for many producers. Certainly, it's in a picture's favor, one can say it won an award at the Cannes Festival or at one Academy Award for the best production or best direction, the best

actor, and there's I'm sure a great sense of satisfaction to the producer, director, and all concerned with it that goes far beyond merely the commercial return, one test. Well, I think what I had in mind, and I'm probably wrong here, but the film festival will select on the basis of a certain merit, films which I haven't had wide distribution, and a group, maybe a cult, if you wish, become interested. Well, Ingemar, with the Bergman, for instance, at first. Now Ingemar Bergman, everybody is becoming acquainted with him, he's developed a tremendous following. I imagine his pictures are getting in more theaters now as a result, but the introduction came through the channels of festivals, didn't they? Festivals. And again, once again, the art there. I happened to know a distributor here who has had an Ingemar Bergman film for several years and said he never knew what to do with it. And he himself did not

like the picture, which one was it? The naked knight, I believe, was the name of it, and he gave the picture up and it's been taken over by another distributor, and I haven't seen the picture myself, but I understand it's an excellent picture. But the man who had it originally just was stumped, he didn't know what to do with it. Nobody had ever heard of Ingemar Bergman, who was a picture with Swedish dialogue, and he just sat on it. Oh, there's a good example of it, and now it's quite, of course, it's a snob thing. Well, it's not only snob, it's a great pleasure to have an Ingemar Bergman picture. And I think it's also, I think an Ingemar Bergman picture is an indication that there is a large public. This is my optimism, it's incredible, that there's a large public which can respond to intelligent and imaginative protection. Well, I think he is unusual in that he deals with ideas. Yes. And his pictures deal with ideas, and somehow or

other, I'm inclined to go along with you. I think that people are interested in ideas, as well as action and shooting and so forth. Yes, exactly. Any action which is really significant has idea in it. Right. And this is sort of a dull, stupid dope that we get, say, in the West doing some many of it come out, is absurd because you can have a shame and pictures like that showed that you can have ideas even in there. Well, even some of the formula Westerns now, so -called formula Westerns, have developed a kind of approach that makes one think, in terms of identification. I think we were more able to identify with a Westerner with a problem than with the old shoot -em -up cowboy. More than think, feels more sensitively, feel more acutely, which is a form of thought, of course, emotional thought.

Yes, and now, the film, in your success in the Clark Theatre, do you find you have a large number of people who are habitués in your place as a reality? Yes, we have quite a following. We have a large mailing list, and we do get quite a bit of mail from people asking for certain pictures. And you try to respond to that? Yes, we do. As a matter of fact, when people ask for pictures, if they send us their name and address, the name of the picture, they want to see, we send a card to them ahead of time, and forming them that the picture is going to be. Oh, I'm glad to know about that. You'll be getting a card through me on several pictures. I was glad to catch up on it. And we also mail out the monthly program. Oh, those people. Well, that's a good thing to have. You'll mail me one. I hope I won't test the... Well, we've had

today on the American scene, doing the arts, a discussion of film festival, with Bruce Trends of the Clark Theatre, where he has every weekend, the weekend drama festival, including collections of films on various subjects. What do you have coming up? Well, next month, we're going to have a weekend comedy festival. Oh, good. Among the pictures we'll show, we'll be Alec Guinness in the horse's mouth. Oh, excellent. I miss that one. I recommend it very highly. Oh, you're surely. Surely. And after that... Well, we have some very fine pictures coming up, and we do have three Ingmar Bergman films scheduled for us. Thank you very much, Bruce Trends, for coming in and talking to you about the film festival.