Climate Change in Kansas

climate change is back in the news this week as president obama released details of his much anticipated clean power plan i'm kate mcintyre and today on k pr percent will look at climate change in kansas but first we say goodbye to robert hemenway the former chancellor of the university of kansas died july thirty first of complications from parkinson's disease a memorial service was held this afternoon eric hey use dole institute of politics hemingway served as chancellor from nineteen ninety five to two thousand nine i would i would hope that would be remembered as a as a teacher and scholar who had additional abilities in the administrative part university in and do work hard to do things in a way that the the respected fact we have instruments that have that religious tuition has been and improved during that time that would say that one of a sudden promised that is the way that the

university of kansas has come to be one university many view for me say you know we we need to think of ourselves as rowan university medical center the large campus of the maldives puts together comes together and there's university that ever make a big problem that's probably almost an animal's prideful of that got people think they think about university and in that manner that's robert hemenway former chancellor of the university of kansas passed away last week at the age of seventy three is survived by his wife the

university of kentucky his scholarly background was in the author zora neale hurston in the boycott of the harlem renaissance monroe died is the author of k you won fifty the story of the university of kansas so he had a head at it in a wide range of of of interest any had manager low skill and i think perhaps they weren't his fine his talents was his easygoing nature has any ability he didn't mind giving a sack lunch and going out on the campus and sitting down with a group of students that he had met before the serbs you awfully well when you think of the university as a hotbed of ideas and people and competing egos and all things that go on the politics involved in work and raising money the politics involved in dealing with politicians faculty members all of whom have their own spheres of influence and of course students are constantly changing that easygoing nature i think serve them while i'll never forget when a relative of mine was graduating at k u i stood up on a planter up with spencer before that are

very much on the hill and took a picture of the scene and as i got down there was robert hemenway in his wife and i my first of course was even though i was not a student in more recruits for me for this for doing this he simply smiled and said good morning and is that good or it so that there's something about the nature of the guy that they had to serve him well and did serve him well it was set of him that he could be at a breakfast in the overland park in the morning and the commander known a backyard for a late night session and get up early the next morning do it all over again when you have that kind of energy and you have that candy background and then you can layer over the fact that people can have like you automatically its rituals are jazz ready to children well i saw the chancellor a number of times around campus and it's like he was almost always sporting bat straw hat he was one of a few oddballs chancellor's but i think it's our structured well

and again i think that kind of this is a little bit of humility he's really not pushing a toupee and it's churning out the goings candidate is is that i am who i am all for the lap to keep the sun out it made it really easy to spot until yesterday was rated graduation that way too that weren't destroyed what are chances did chancellor hemingway have during his tenure here at like all tells viewers he faced threats of cutbacks are cutbacks in state money that's that's a challenge that started in the eighteen sixty five and continues today and has never gone away economic booms come and depressions go in and all these things happen and a chance for us to fight every chance i think has had to fight his or her way through that that situation at human we face that is a large challenge he faced challenges at the medical center are there were in the can see star reported that that the rookie a heart

transplant not people have not been doing the heart transplants for your soul but they've been keeping patients are in the hospital and turning them for to this is the negative stuff that shares rose to face even create that heap probably didn't i'm sure he didn't know what was going on until it suddenly burst on the scene but that's not new for a chance for you to suddenly concert by the shows another problem staring at me never heard of it in everything to do with it but i do it i think he was a he was good at doing that he was good at raising money he and he later turned and then separated the hospital from the rush the medical center which made it a much more nimble responsive institution in these days of medical insurance changes things it seems to me he was a smart reflective easygoing guy and an ad really good combination of awe of traits to for a cheshire okay you what do you think he'll be best remembered for harry kane i would remember that any ability that first thing i mentioned his easygoing i was never in a meeting with them and i'm sure there are some meetings we had to be harsh he had difficulties with the athletic department with a selection of the idea

of athletic director and that's so important you ever see because although teaching and learning and classroom stuff isn't real reason for the mercy being there the thing that biden's students and alumni and others is for better for worse athletics it's really important be that he faced strong up tess with that too and he and he didn't do well i'm almost us your claim that any didn't seem to go into depression or of the slums of despondency he seemed to keep going with that that that that that that nature outgoing employs of nature that he had registered and so i think again a memorial service was held today at the dole institute of politics for robert hemenway former chancellor of the university of kansas thank you so much for sharing your thoughts or

are thank you you're listening to a pr prisons and kansas public radio it's the single most important step that america have made in the fight against climate change that's how president obama this week described his new plan to cut power plant emissions the clean power plan

includes the first ever environmental protection agency standards on carbon pollution from us power plants under the clean power plan the epa set the individual state goals for reducing emissions based on their current energy mix states that rely on coal like kansas are expected to be hit hard by the clean power plan kansas currently has a carbon dioxide emission rates of about twenty three hundred pounds per megawatt hour under the clean power plan the epa set a goal of just under thirteen hundred in the year twenty thirty which in term goals for the years in between harlem health monitors bryan thompson has this report the clean power plan sets individual reduction targets for each state leaves it up to the states to decide how to meet those targets any state that fails to submit a plan that meets with the epa's approval will be regulated under a federal plan developed by epa the largest utility company in kansas west our energy hopes it won't come to that according to spokeswoman gina pins

it it would be a better than you at eleven like hama where the kansas sierra club's energy chair bill griffiths says if kansas allows the epa to impose a federal plan it will make life more difficult for utilities that rely heavily on coal will be on where they are at that point you know if they believe or not hanging than have the epa common good by that they're going to be really known what are fairly r griffiths says closing the tecumseh generating plant near topeka would be almost enough for west are to meet its carbon reduction target i'm bryan thompson with this week's announcement of the epa's new clean power plan the issue of climate change is back in the news when we talk about climate change many of us think about how it would affect other parts of the world rising sea levels flooded coastal areas but what my climate change mean here in our land washburn university hosted a panel

discussion on climate change and kansas on march twenty fifth two thousand fifteen we'll hear from mark smith branch chief of the epa region seven bribe loveless executive director of environmental services for west or energy or the barnett executive director of the climate and energy project and our first caliph mailers who teaches biology at washburn university tutorial environmental science courses on campus to sponsor the dove augustine organization devoted to the church i am not representing washburn university an accountant i saw i wouldn't say that i speak for washburn university a way that maybe some of the others speak for the the organizations for which there is a very good friend thank you full disclosure i think my wife had been denied donate

today and you and we're glad they do before that we receive i think gothic up in a lot of hours of that same program that i'm a biologist i manage that animal services for what strategy skills measured i also don't necessarily speak for four westar energy in terms of particles are anti that but i'm very proud to represent here tonight i manage environmental services program west our energy as many of you know produces electricity from from our coal natural gas wind landfill gas solar and transmits and distribution is about a hundred thousand customers here in eastern kansas i've been working on carbon capture and watermelon seeds the restoration technology for for number years because it involved with conversations around carbon dioxide regulations and that in those conversations have been with epa that mark represents as well as katie at in the cans corporation commission we've had active

conversations around what the proposal carbon regulations might mean for our generation flea and importantly tell us the impact that that would have on electric reliability of all store customers can you just strap it turns the frustration can you tell me what you mean by that sure we as i said we've been following very closely techniques to capture suit two before it gets to the environment but what you capture you have to do so with the sequester asian is is the ways that we consider putting that in a stable form so that doesn't give the atmosphere there's a great big spread directly and ddt had like ten bank abductor peterson for including me with this terrific group am i my name is georgie barnett and i direct that climate and energy project we are a non profit based in hutchinson kansas and we really focus on increasing the use every noble energy and energy efficiency since two thousand seven when we were formed our goal has been to connect people

organizations and ideas around solutions for the clean energy economy and we advocate for clean energy policy in topeka and in dc we do a lot of work with kansans on energy efficiency programs like that take charge challenge that some of you may be from iran but i'll share a little bit about as well as our newest program water and energy progress which focuses on innovation and saving water and energy on our kansas farmers and ranchers and you think you may be surprised about the evening to know that even though climate has a part of our name i spend really very little of our time talking about climate change and kfc to share a bit of history about the climate energy project and why and how we were started an and that well maybe help us understand why we don't spend time talking about climate change and we were started in two thousand seven and some of you may recall that a lot of the conversations around energy were centered on whether or not there should be a

new coal fired plant built in holcomb kansas an angry at our founder nancy jackson has some of you may now was at dinner with her father now wes jackson who is the founder of the land institute based in salinas unless was really unhappy and having just come from a hearing about the proposed coal fired plant and couldn't understand why people in western kansas were seemingly i'm concerned about climate change and about the missions that that the new plant would be met and if you really looked at him candidly and said you know you know west they're looking at it from the lens of economic opportunity and jobs and there's not a lot of opportunity for that in western kansas and so what nancy proposed wise you need to be able to offer solutions that would create jobs that would provide economic stability for that area as an alternative to the coal fired plant and so the climate and energy project was born and we began talking about renewable energy as an economic driver particularly for kansas

wind energy and at our core we're in everything we do as an organization we really focused on connecting people organizations and it has and it's our goal to facilitate long term pragmatic discussions that are focused on long term solutions and we worked really hard to present a balanced facts and to ensure that our a broad range of voices are at record that are represented one of the things that i would say is that although we don't spend a lot of time talking about climate change are programs really focused directly on reducing greenhouse gas emissions in real time so whether those are energy efficiency competitions they get people to take actions in their homes or whether they're recognizing the innovations taking place and on canvas farms and ranches to save water and to save energy all those things are really and our impact on greenhouse gas emissions we're at my name is mark smith and i'm with the us

environmental protection agency region seven we have office in kansas city and we cover four states we cover the states of kansas missouri nebraska iowa and nine tribal nations are many of you know or so the us epa as a regulatory agency and so we're i'm let our actions be driven by science and and by the law and when we look at climate change we will look at the court that the science has as clear we also look at the legal authority and the legal authority for us to address greenhouse gas emissions has been clear since two thousand seven supreme court decision which was actually in massachusetts versus epa the supreme court decided that the clean air act could be used as a vehicle to regulate carbon dioxide so sense two thousand ten we've been regulating carbon dioxide through friday mechanisms throughout the clean air act on that has recently the edgy as it has been ups if you will by the president's announcement two

thousand thirteen on his climate action plan which i like talk a little bit tonight about which the centerpiece is a clean power plan that seeks to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases from coal fired power plants by thirty percent in the year two thousand thirty very good before we talk about climate change from the policies standpoint let's talk a little bit about the science part of this professor bayless talk was about what climate change might look like here in the midwest and as well as others the country especially what we might see in the kansas fifty years from now one hundred years from now two hundred years from now and so the big issue with climate change are west bengal is to pasture the carbon dioxide emissions primarily from fossil fuels

and so what we've really understand the more carbon dioxide would end up putting into the atmosphere though warmer than the average temperature and something on yourself climate change from the perspective of what we expect temperature wise is still a warming trend though the real issue when you get that kind of catastrophic climate change if we do nothing for the next hundred years and it keeps you know having major prongs the big deal is the melting of the ice and that that ends up invading coastlines and that is the kind of the preeminent economic concern relate to climate change although as you alluded to initially that we are safe in kansas from a direct impact of flooding from from sea level rise we're not in kansas going to be immune from being having to pay

to move society away from the coastline i always like to say you know we may have we may have not be inundated by water in kansas but if climate change really does start taking off and i'm getting really bad with relation to the melting of the ice we will have to move every single human being that lives in the so then therefore we will have to move every single human being that lives in new york city every single human being who is in boston all of them there in washington dc all of them there in los angeles that's just america we could look in on the impact on i'm in shanghai and tell cut and all these other places but i can feel pretty confident to say that you know wall street's not in a move not have paid a movie itself we're all gonna have to to invest in and moving the national capital if we honestly after doing so

economically we're going to be very very tight here we look at the impacts on kansas specifically related to climate change we do expect temperatures to increase enough to cause a lot more evaporation water which means that it's going and it's really going to impact agricultural productivity i think the latest united nations report another climate scientists are estimates if we don't do anything about climate change whatsoever about the year twenty one hundred we should expect wheat and corn yields in kansas to draw close to five percent i mean that's only within basically your lifetime so i mean like what happens in another hundred years i mean it can get really dramatic so that the evaporation of water they increased temperature are going to make kansas says climate feel something more along the lines of south texas and so the

agricultural infrastructure that we have built in kansas will have to be rebuilt and southern canada all of that cost money and although you may be firearm i'm not saying our why helping scientists generally do that it's going to get so hot that it melts us now that we couldn't live under the hose conditions it states the economic impact on the society of having to change complete infrastructure development because we no longer want to be the breadbasket of some of the world anymore here the breadbasket world will become sets caps on canada which doesn't mean that the world can still grow wheat it just means that yes absolutely for us for us there will be a direct impact increases in global average temperature also allow tropical diseases for my very low which means you got malaria i we could start getting you know all sorts of types of tropical diseases that have been completely out of the united states

could easily migrate it to kansas within the next hundred years and so there are a number of direct human health and the economy and agriculture in water availability and all that i could go on for another three hours if you think you got it if it works as an introduction so not only would have direct implications in terms of our agriculture or our temperature but there are a lot of human costs as well absolutely there in the latest in our pc senior government on climate change the united nations group of scientists that won it this and powerpoints of the year a couple years are absolutely estimating increase it related deaths directly elderly the conditions that we did see just a couple years ago mass he waved at first glance an eleven twelve people at that itself or so so we can certainly see

i am the voice of the impact of of a declining agricultural base is going to really hurt the economy a kansas serves primarily will rely on quite often so i just haven't social safety net problems for poor individuals that there are direct human health concerns to what extent does the fact that for so long there was some debate about whether there is climate change can we just are i went there with the assertion that there is climate change are we at the point now where we can say that with certainty end and not face and have argued about that now we are we have been ninety five percent of publishing science a certain too since about ninety eight so and i don't we haven't gotten i would say still to the point that we can absolutely say you know get it done now signs were to rely on probabilities so there is no such thing as absolute

proof inside so so you're always going to be relying on your own probability isn't and statistical analyses in one week think might happen in that bus at us that the evidence has remained clear since the mid eighties and there is a scientific consensus i'm an absolute scientific consensus but i guarantee that you'll still hear individuals in the press and in the statehouse here that want to debate it's not a debate within the scientific community dallas's books it try to monitor the caribbean literature to get a sense of that debate and my take is that there is a broad consensus that it's clear this change going on where i get interested is as we talk about those projections we know that we're the earth is always changing their concern

now is that rate increases and how are we able to humans or isn't able to adapt to that that rich and one of the things that interests me and one of the reasons why i think many kids as a broad conversation and not exclude people because you always hear people talk about the losers in this people in life and its history with the stress of being workable the phone call them again he'd on average around here right that's not to say that let's let's try to you know have you heard whether gas but nevertheless i think it's important that we talk about adaptation in and changes you know that bit in for some organisms are far more beneficial for the show to talk about the shift as we go north or something and so i think that's part of the conversation absolutely mosquitoes would love to know so

there are certain parts of the ecosystem there that would absolutely the benefit is very very interesting yeah it is it's really interesting that a conversational from a wildlife perspective we're seeing some some other diseases that were more southern there are moving up in the king zubin mehta dual form so what what initially see you know talk about adaptation we see deer that were affected the losses endured population are significant for a few years but then as we saw in the southern states the deer start to become resistant to it and so they just the question is who can of time to adjust they practiced at a zen you know again from epa standpoint the science is clear however there's always room for debate and and there always will be a debate as my in laws are always costly miami about climate change i am and i think that's a healthy thing again and it really is is not unusual i mean if you go back to

the eighties in the nineties when we are dealing with that the hole in the ozone layer for example and dealing with grappling with questions about what it ought to phase out or bay and chloroform carbons and there was also a lot of debate about the science of that and whether or not that was actually cause an effect on with an ozone layer olmos and where and what we found isn't it was that you know at some point there has to be enough science behind an issue for action to happen and that's what in that situation happen that turns out i think the proof is in the polling on that the whole is shrinking by an entity that goes right in line with that the phase out and the band mercy of sees an environment but i think there's always gonna be room for debate i agree to rally think it's it's important to let that happen that's part of the scientific process essentially there is not a point at which you say we have proven something it's i should stop they are an

actor as we think about the work that we do and i am the people that we work with across the state and you know oftentimes you know we work with really terrific people are making investments in renewable energy are thinking about energy efficiency a lot of times they're not doing it because they want to protect the environment or because they could really believe in or care about climate change but i don't really care and you know they're making investments and as we think about more renewable energy that's less fossil generation it's good for kansas it's creating jobs it's making a good financial contribution and in rural kansas which is important to my organization and again it's reducing greenhouse gas emissions and we wear looking at some numbers and looking at some numbers earlier end and we are nearly twenty percent of the energy that we use in kansas than a generation is renewable energy today almost one percent and that that's that's twenty percent but we're not creating additional greenhouse gas emissions and

there's there's a really strong economic value to that so i am these conversations are important we she continued to to have those conversations but it's okay if somebody thinks a little bit differently about it than i do because they're still making good decisions and in our opinion on renewable energy and energy efficiency mark you mentioned in two thousand thirteen that president obama outlined his president's climate action plan can you talk about the different parts of that plan then and where we are right now what's the status of this church or i'd be glad to know there's basically three main components to the president's climate action plan there there's a navigation component of reducing greenhouse gases and there's an adaptation component which is was really acknowledging that climate change is happening in that we are at the point where we are going out to start making adaptation decisions and an international component recognition that you know

obviously on states cannot just go along here we need to lead on but there's obviously an international component to that our biggest effort and in our region seven offices ban on the navigation component and working on the president's clean power plan which is on again seeking to reduce emissions are really the largest sector of of greenhouse gas emissions and as for electricity generation about thirty two percent of greenhouse gases come from electricity generation in the united states that's even higher and are forced a region that's about seventy five percent of our greenhouse gasses here to emissions come from the power plant center for state area so it is something that if you're to be credible to address you've got to to tackle on that particular issue on electric power generation and so we're at a point now where now we're facing in those regulations we proposed a rule last year it was a quite an extraordinary effort at least

that i've been involved with this a very complex role very broad role it seeks to have a lot of flexibility on we received almost four million comments on the particular regulation which is very unusual for us we used to have a measure are comments on in the hundreds of thousands of you on a very popular rule but to have to get reform in was was quite remarkable can you talk a little bit about what that looks like sure that that the program itself is really on as i mentioned seeks to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from coal fired power sector by thirty percent in two thousand thirty five from about two thousand five baseline if you will it seeks to really have a flexible approach where we call a whopper of federalism where are we are working with the state so what the federal backstop if you will to ensure that these protections are made from what we've done is establish targets for each state are more setting a

goal of emission reductions by state by giving the states flexibility in terms of how they actually achieve those reductions so on they can look at things like making energy efficient improvements practical far apart by itself and they could look at within their state owned energy efficiency off site of fifths of the facility itself and looking at avoiding generation and if you will or avoiding emissions by doing energy conservation measures we're looking at and allowing for states consider things that they're already doing to build upon a renewable portfolio standard things that they're dealing with the real energy alan is another component really trying to maximize the amount of flexibility a steak and have to achieve on those reductions basically and we would allow basically anything with an estate plan that you can track back emissions to this stack of that call for a power plant and if it's reducing our avoiding generation

we would allow state get credit for that we know working closely with the market as well as katie just an attack the kansas department happening as that is the regulatory arm for the program here in kansas and so when they were caught because of the potential impact on on the west or in their foreign customers worry about them this comes out sexual and the uniquely american for most rules were used rules there epa is pretty perspective as a scuffle on that but one of these different things that were so every hour where the pick on a guy but then the story really is in the driver seat as amin says that as a larger role in this then they typically do a new regulations and so we have conversations with with the day for one night another final rule to try to make that is manageable as reasonable as as possible and

help them understand the impact and what was practical as far as we can tell but then we've also been talking with the state about their their role or authority in this process and that as we talk about making a state plan to comply with so it's been a really interesting dialogue where the chinese for little bit different from the standard so that's there's been a twist on that thing whatever challenges his outpost but for the epa and perhaps for the states that are trying to figure out what our response be why i can start an eight in it you know it really is i guess i would describe as a more by layer of an onion if you will as you peel back one layer you find layers upon layers of it really harm the stars with the interconnected nature of the electric grid and how those brits are managed an end and brad certainly knows it's a lot better than i do but with the result transmission organizations the power poles they have a

role in this and how powers dispatched to the various generating its arm there obviously are a different state political bodies that are involved around power generation the grid does not stop at the state line lawmakers across state lines and so one of the things we're trying to at flexibility is to allow options or states to partner together to say which is due to do a more by state plan that something that they could entertain but those are just a few of the issues that really become complicated because you not just dealing with for example a traditional federal state and history and relationship you're dealing with multiple partners as are trying to tackle this huge problem when things that i would act now that i have is that we are make trying to likely to pass legislation in kansas that and it has been somewhat limiting to the flexibility and you know we're talking about as mark souder

ruled it's not even final yet won't even be final and tell and some r and b we have some idea of what that might look like that were making new law and based on a proposal will end and that makes a little bit difficult and and i think i am subjects kansas to potentially federal plan if there's too many delays and a timeline to me that's a plan and a lot of states are ahead of us a lot of states already started moving forward with some of their planning process and and instead you know we're dealing with and legislation that could be somewhat limiting so that's that's been a barrier to this potential effort prospective we are blessed with great memories we've been taking advantage of that and i'm looking more morning person or when the village's dorothy point our customers benefit but because of our good wind resource and the cost is

probably in this part of the country and so it's economical for us too so you can chase after when to comply with what the fine line for us we're reading it because we can fit into our generation next to help inmates and the prices get those were not alone that's what you were referring to when you said some organizations or are pursuing this not because they're necessarily pro environmental but because it makes economic sense sure sure i am so so kansas has a walk along a renewable portfolio standard and that was enacted in two thousand nine and kansas and utilities to regulate utilities which is six and the state naacp every utility but not must mean he's not moscow lost that bit the regulated utilities and have to get twenty percent of their generation or nameplates capacity by twenty twenty and we're on track to probably by the end of next year

means that early man and the utilities have made great investments in wind not as west are but others and you know yes because there was a requirement to do that bad as as branstad the class has dropped exponentially in a better technology and you know we have a facility in kansas that assembles themselves you know much that i am pieces of the wind turbines are made in north america now they don't have to be shipped from across the ocean so the cost has come down it's financially and that's not true in every case in every state but in kansas and that the cost is near parity is approaching this is getting close to other forms of generation composer are in this regulation one of things we've talked a lot about lately is raw deal with impacts they don't need greater regulation you tell the glenview and and things have to adjust to that and so

we i'm worried about what the impacts on liabilities that's our pledge or our customers will actually have are there when you leave the lights wouldn't sell wind energy is growing rules are great at our portfolio with a diverse as it is almost everything and certainly is true when it comes to generation x so we need a good part of that is we have more and we still stay healthy but one of things that the media recently about we're in dc some of the projections as for the song not their models but other models that are used to project what potential win this are are just crazy about winter is everywhere so we're trying to have a reasonable projection song was what's reasonable and pardon to his transmission rate as any good boy returns in western kansas letting it that far back the population centers so or a very hard i think theres a transmission by so fast and regulations about weight transmission lines that we have

to pay attention to so and that's increase in cost our customers are where the power and so all those things have to be in a group that was more prevalent complex systems and we have someone making more wealth and efficiently an effort to forgive enough time or prevent that but if you then last week so what does the future of kansas wind energy look like if it's going to be sort of the big piece of the major piece of kansas energy policy in the future what all is also the comments but certainly there's a lot of potential you have the western kansas have great potential there are some regulations projections of that was the last years that that restricts somewhere you can put plants as well as transmission lines but nonetheless we have a great wind resource lot of potential if we're given time to build transmission out to those areas

then this will be a great resource for us to grow different choices it's good that we can export that electricity on our lives so that although we just left the realistic but is we go we were well and will rely on that we would have a great wind resource we are lining up allies for the talks about legislation we work hard to make sure the legislation doesn't interfere with good science a good economic policy decisions that were thrown and so i just answer that i am you know that kansas has almost three thousand megawatts of winds right now and there's another fourteen hundred and reconstruction this year and next year and minnesota so we've seen that that grow exponentially and the wind industry now counts eight billion dollars and an economic investment in kansas that billionth baby and so we've seen that the overall economic burden to

communities to host wind farms to landowners he leased land to businesses to supply when farms were lots and lots of businesses more than sixty businesses actually were somehow involved in the wind business in kansas so those are really good numbers and what we've seen unfortunately in kansas hamlet is it is a sustained and in a prolonged fourth year in a row now attempts to get rid of the renewable portfolio standard at the statehouse and that begins to take a toll on an industry and on an organizing on and industries investing you know billions of dollars in your state and feeling like maybe they're not as welcome as they were when we started this in two thousand nine and this year in addition to that fourth time repeal of the art he has an issue tax bills and play we weren't we would get some bills in committee to add an excise tax

to renewable generation and ethanol production we have some property tax exemption repeals employee so there's a lot of things happening that don't make us up here to be as interested in really promoting and growing or renewable energy industry as we have in the past i might add just to make sure boys aware this is that for some subsidies that have been in place for women adore the mansion about tax credit and well no actually from those rights and that's not in place right now that property tax relief is another thing we've been talking about the price of wind blowing down and make it more economical it would be economical is or was in the federal production tax credit has been in place they can be competitive advantage of those forces so so that's making it reasonable for us person or that were taken away and you like economic seven worked so so i know some of the folks that object to rule

proposed and things like that do it based on the grounds look we gave them protection tax credit for a few years travis industry up off the ground outside for them to try to fly on the wrong side i think that's part of criticism that you do when you and it is true it raises i just say that the cheapest were comparing is call and if we actually price call according to the pollution that's generating the human health care cost and a mercurial and all the stuff that's coming off of it everything you just said would not big trip so we are subsidizing fossil fuels her interest and we're subsidizing clean energy and i could say if you want to say well we didn't we can get rid of some subsidies for wind and that would make it not profitable anymore that would be equally as well to save if we got rid of all the subsidies that are propping up or coal industry that

everyone would be going towards wind and solar subsidies well probably the largest one is the lack of accounting for the amount of air pollution is coming off of the large coal plants so is this two thousand five in western audiences to thousand five are and asians for ventures on science and dropped by seventy five percent in four party can buy the person four pounds over by sight by nearly eighty percent of us unintelligible as tonto of injury because of regulations that barred from the iraqis at heart so what i would say is even with these controls in place right texture expenses pales us resolve those changes that's called still most competitive now imaginary than the actual facts of ethnic

interview it was a jar of course soon the outcome was going to take place but what we see over the years as people said well once you actually have to reduce those emissions are probably then you can afford a brothel and we keep finding there's still it's a it's a native resources we have here is a bland and it's very expensive and you know those additional patrols are we still wanted to be the full cost of a generation yet further stole billions of dollars earmarks for our scarf the or is that call come from a cost to come out of the car out remediation effort surface mines get waves of time there are people that have political blogger there most of the people that end up with living around coal mining sites in and getting human health care costs or do not have insurance they didn't

affect society and that there is i believe a pretty strong economic consensus that in an interview the journals i read that suggests that if you only only look at the air pollution which i agree are lowering of that there's still times sometimes spends about in there is still it's still impacting it still causing asthma still releasing all sorts of heavy metals in the air so i'm not suggesting they are not getting yeah i don't see how you are and it's being accounted for by their health care costs as the ivory that you are having to end and an increase your expenses are stacked like that the mit i was very fond of what is helping you look at the data for for alvarez right or carnations right

there and so he was saying marriages because we're not getting as much as he used to doesn't and i don't know i'm here and that you've mentioned this point that these efforts to address climate change are taking place in at least in our country in a democratic society where you have all these different stakeholders who are at play including the legislature including the judicial system the supreme court just today heard arguments on on some regulations from the epa about mercury what challenges does that present that we're trying to address this very complex issue in a democratic society where you have public employee and lawmakers and different parties that come to this with their own agendas and their own perspective smart connector that to you lets a tough

question you know it is it is part the realities that we're in and as the description always goes a sense it's like watching sausage being made again and it is in some respects would it be more effective could we do this more efficiently at at addressing climate change by having congress and a and a president come together and pass comprehensive legislation absolutely but that's you know has not been shown to happen in the recent history and so we're sort of forced to deal with what we have now and that is laws that support existing statutes and supreme court decisions that support existing statutes homes that are addressing climate change and many other environmental regulations and so on and four so it is part of the system that we have where we as as executive level agencies issuing regulations are at the mercy of the courts

you're putting and stays reversing decisions remaining decisions back the epa nominee and that process has to be played out that's that's our government system works and force only had it usually tom delay's progress but eventually we get there and i think i we are making progress i do see hope i don't want to sound like this is this is a it's a bad news story i think things are changing an end and change is happening because of of the efforts and the sausage making that's going on behind seems likely and i would take a little different tact with ben adams you know when i see an hour on a fairly regular basis it is people like you all and the audience and mic with an average two need to be more engaged in that conversation and you know if you're here because you want a clean energy future for kansas your elected officials need to know about whether those inner city commissioners or city council members who are thinking

about different sustainability projects or programs are whether those are your state legislators hamlet whether that's here congressional member and you know you you won't pay to play a really key role in that sausage making it's not just you know that that legislative body or or that or the council member and you know we all have a say in it and you know we go to you know we we we choose the people there they are going to make those rules and regulations and so you know i would just going to say that you know i am hopeful i do think that there's a lot of really good were happening and to try to figure out how he answers and in the nation and it really how some positive economic benefits and the teller said for for this and you know investments in renewables make economic

sense you know the cheapest watt of energy is the one we don't ever years and we have huge opportunities in this state for investment in energy efficiency and conservation am and a lot they could began you know from a utility's perspective and from individual perspective of how we can and use our energy more wisely iran which i think is important he says well if you come to this topic in this conversation from really different perspectives endure organizations have really different viewpoints a different concerns howe over the past ten years or however long you then with west are even with the epa how has the conversation changed about climate change within your organization like i can remember um i worked at the epa for over twenty years believe or not i started as an intern with epa and so i've ever seen that the changing of administrations i think at least five or six maybe a

year there were times that epa where i was it was a topic that was difficult to talk about and politically very difficult to do today to discuss i think for us the a big watershed moment was a two thousand seven supreme court decision which are which you know it the historically to go back into context again it was massachusetts versus epa so bpa was actually arguing that we should not regulate greenhouse gases in that case in two thousand seven so it's completely the flow and and once that decision was made by the supreme court on that was really a game changer for epa i might throw mr benson about the title changes with the ministrations and the city in the course we're worried with all those folks need to be constructive and all that and so

we'll obviously talk about this decision last week appreciate the staff that epa and also that will help the environment that was one they engage and that and try to work out things constructively so what we try to do or years is now consisting conversations on don't trust so that we can move forward together the best product as everybody position and taking care the environment and keep the rates low and making sure a powerful i will and then we appreciate those conversations then watkins says that britain struck you've been listening to climate change and kansas a panel discussion at washburn university in topeka featured where mark smith branch chief of the epa region seven brad loveless executive director of environmental services for west our energy dorothy barnett executive director of the climate and energy project and calloused mailers who teaches biology at washburn university i'm kay mcintyre i moderated this panel which was

recorded by k pr as chuck smith on march twenty fifth two thousand fifteen kbr presents is a production of kansas public radio at the university of kansas no ties in your comments or questions about a pr prison for an idea for a feature program i want to hear from you my email address is james mcintyre dot edu that came and see i n t y r e dei edu again that's k m c i n t y r e dei no no