An hour with Former Ukrainian President Viktor Yuschenko

twenty years ago the world watched in amazement as the soviet union's political system collapsed and dissolved into fifteen separate republicans i'm kate mcintyre and today on k pr presents the former president of one of those republics victory showing go you shane those dramatic rise to the presidency of the ukraine in the orange revolution of two thousand for was marked by an especially brutal campaign that included being poisoned by dioxin he served as president of ukraine from two thousand five thousand ten using to receive the door leadership rise on september nineteenth two thousand eleven awarded annually by the dole institute of politics at the university of kansas he speaks here with bill lacy director of the dole institute he was introduced at this event by university of kansas associate professor of political science perry karen seven years ago hundreds of thousands of ukrainians rallied in the streets for democracy the rule of law to show their support for our guest of

honor victory you should not since the velvet revolutions in eastern europe at the twilight of communism had we witnessed such large peaceful and important mass mobilization is victor hughes shane cole embodied the possibility of progress he had worked in banking become central bank director then prime minister and finally entered into the political opposition in two thousand to he led the opposition political party over ukraine to a strong showing in parliamentary elections as the two thousand for presidential election approached he emerged as the leading opposition candidate the campaign was brutal and in its darkest moment mr hughes shane cole was poisoned with dioxin despite the challenges he was victorious in the first round and faced the regime's preferred candidate in a runoff election

observers and the media out weakness massive efforts to steal the election from history you should go and when the regime supported candidate was improperly declared the winner citizens of ukraine at great personal and professional risk claimed the streets they occupied the central square of the capital city in the cold for weeks until an agreement was reached a new election would be held and from it victory you shrink of emerged as president of ukraine these peaceful protests labeled the orange revolution inspired other pro democracy advocates around the world and popularize the idea that color revolutions could threaten entrenched authoritarian systems please join me in welcoming to the dole institute of politics and to the university of kansas president victor eugene to

play the puzzle well leadership rise forty thousand eleven and that's an island again bastion what was it like growing up in your nation being dominated by the soviet union and you have to get involved in politics you first of all that evening if you would like to thank you our that your heart he's not indifferent to our country and to our people that kids do when they ask me how i look and my childhood the vision wasn't i good regard something that later would be mike bickle politics i remember two

episodes in my life because of poaching episode number one to keep apart that would repeat itself many hughes says that every morning at about this exam and my father had a small radio that we both do and they are content on the wires would go all around the house eventually a little and starting at six am but a vote it would be leaning toward the radio and i would be listening to the voice of america and of course it was jammed it was probably i think every other word was hard to understand with what there was a bank that was a voice of truth if evolution lynn and it really made a major impact on me for a long time and i remembered the programming the scheduled times for different programs also

on the voice of america and bbc bbc that's major highways says israel and they were broadcasting in russia was the region so that was not as i would say remember now the environment in which i was growing up and the second thing you're probably are stimulated major going to politics maybe consciously or subconsciously you see i was born in eastern ukraine so people do need to be able to see it it was forty kilometers away from the border with russia so huge huge issue like everyone i grew up with that was me

and i i was standing because they know but it's very important to know i really for you to remember that it was it is great to lose lose people that this issue will that is approximately one of them how thousand kilometres from this they believe which isn't where do great ad that ballet where i was not really sending out cost of the bath or muslims but he is an older half law and sue welsh issue and at about eight hundred meters from that box there is a monument to the sea it's about two hundred year old won him and you know you look at someone and it was written on that monument was his invention the solution and this place there was a border between poland and russia and i'm standing there and i am a six year old wide and i'm looking at that now it's on to be human and i'm thinking to myself

over there beyond that valley this is russia though yahoo before the valley it's still loyal and still wears a gray so these are stories i think yeah i'm a baby they carry it sure that they had a weekday we can describe our feelings integrated millions of people in the recent four hundred years were looking for they ukraine and we're struggling with very grey can you imagine the feelings of a nation which for four hundred years did not have its own state and in the eleventh century we have the state that was the largest in europe or from the baltic sea to the black sea muslim then our name was stolen in the country was stolen history was stolen our heroes were taken away our culture suffered

as a result officially it was bad one hundred and seventy two times the language was bad it was prohibited to use the ukrainian language for you as we know one could not here to a liturgy in ukrainian it was credited to o'brien olds in ukrainian this is the feelings with which one would regard approach the assessment evaluation of our top twenty and you really covet a conclusion that the major graders leave for my grandfather was to have a degree and for my great grandfather bought the greatest dream i was to live in his own state television new mobile of the greatest prima my father mother was to have an independent ukraine but the balmy might now we have a switch of

course there are many shortcomings there are many things that need rectification an improvement and of course it is hard to live in one poll when you know go deep in the hole was isolated was dividing into separate rules for four hundred years and now he has one trio and it really hurts i feel pain when i went here especially internationally went outside ukraine i you know they tell us you know our be a respected ukrainians you are very different with a great losses he did you have the east is that you have the west spoke with a citizen will you communicate using different languages including business so you go to different churches i didn't not have your share heroes your visitors is one brain in history one is they don't that's his theory that their history is that the vision is very little ability in in a while

you are very different in ukraine and then i had this question you look at the map of the twentieth century with looking for that go to look at that territory that today is a great one i just think that flow by a dozen of different borders and these were foreign workers usually we live in is that the great lived as one colony western be a great live in five volunteers and i'm asking if it is this hour a hole that we're different sensible human so did we divide and separated ourselves did we ourselves go to different churches some of the usual didn't really want to use the south for a language as our native languages obama's language no way but it's not the full you cannot blame it on my nation do

we were divided into jewish and my grandparents' suffered because of that today i'll read a mentioned that example which other nation is what i will mention now the law within the twentieth century starting with nineteen eighty are so in nineteen ninety one in ukraine she says you osha will salute declared its independence six times so we have a real chance to settle rather ukraine and actually about big someone that there's always this car but he stayed they are the symbol of their faith in the graveyard the independent state of step on them that is a little bit of the most approachable and the independent ukraine in nineteen ninety one she giants would declare their independence and five times we last question and the reason was only one

and all those five times for an occupational outsider keeping the wheels of you that's why is that where the feelings from childhood from adolescence years resort with time it was what if it was reflected in my life to be pushed those update i asked many questions i asked myself why live they treat all why did they do these things for this nation and it is very important to respect yourself we do respect your language was and how important national revival is that was lewis how important freedom and democracy or and along route i want to say how important is this large surrounding world to integration into this are running well i mean we're talking about european integration or pan european integration that is the thoughts that a hat starting with

that have or have not that they mentioned that valley who binges was a moment when i was really very young boy do the poachers who does that and after the time when i won the presidential election as the president described the transition you made from prime minister and opposition leader of the borg the premier mean you still going to go with the sea and the personal risks that that entails geeky but i would not be honest with you if i said that to say that really i had major reservations i did not want to avoid default i thought that i had a good job alonzo and i was head of the national bank which as you know is the equivalent of federal reserve center of that twice i was elected this high position unique position and i should just implemented the hamas victory for a little invincible because i believe that the nation's needs a symbols symbols that because the symbol of stability

and a national currency i could be that symbol and i really did not want to go and so for about six times they offered me the position of prime minister and i refuse to that post several times but he did hear that that they did not either they could easily prove that review then comes the year nineteen ninety nine and the economic situation was very bad the country where economically was in that state and i see that that invitation for deposed prime minister comes more and more important more and more burdens and that's why the air ticket huge and that lived in germany will go to my friend dick meyer and he was head of on the spot you have a new and i thought that for several days i will get out of ukraine and maybe that

pressure for appointing me taking the post of prime minister will by kind of sort of tapered that little girl who will be in motion and the ambassador there in germany says one day ah i miss their chairmen chairmen of all natural language the president is on the lookout for you president wants to present a victory steve and i dont you tell the president that you could not walk at affordable that and then the next day then that's in their gowns and says mr chairman the president of ukraine is looking for you who won and i said please tell him that i went out with this guy i had to admire and late in the evening that same gate to my hotel gobs of the ambassador of ukraine germany look it was about midnight and then he says this the sheriff and the president is

looking for you if you had an article and now that you mentioned by the morning comes morning i will no longer be ambassador of ukraine ok i dial president of gray rubble and again that's an occasion the conversation the top vote no voters the president makes and offer for prime minister a close and it was cited by the segregation and the temperature and this conversation is going up and in the end the president gives me does anyone phrase that really may influence me and kind of i fell it's losing out in good position he told me do you know the situation in ukraine says i know him very well and then he says so that you know

there is no one else i want to be in that position of prime minister and that phrase that remarks that the president made it to get as my duty and then i can't return to grave though i was elected prime minister and i go to my mother in all in eastern ukraine and she usually they're outside on the threshold in our house is listen to what my mother said says that in connection with my election to the post of prime minister of the country she says the debt they are individually those shows that is really some hardships of bad omen for our people that is that is that a lot for our entire family and that's how it gave prime minister how did you make the transition from

prime minister to the leader of the opposition with the snail it was fate that he only disclosed in this book i was not complicated policy after i was in that position as prime minister for about a year there were barriers that we head out of the house and he came into the pension funds and everything i really managed to solve all that add they were in no areas with a lot of the people who is an exotic thing in those days that the government starting at wages and salaries regularly on time and during his many public events i had to appear together with president quote smile back then too you know and i remember several of those advances of the lines you are walking together with the president and there are several thousand people and when your company you're walking with the president and the people who were there several

thousand then going out the name of the prime minister not the president and that is no that's the end of it that and i'm a lot of his vote and this is really what happened was bundled with hiv what would like that kind of prime minister who is more popular than the present is that in the country where there is good or easy living good regime and on the twenty six of april year two thousand one of there was an unprecedented event in our party and you know i asked brennan started i was in the right or on microphone and they voted to dismiss things we never had an event like that because the procedure in the entire world is the same

harping on person who would be a top executive is reporting for his or her performance then opt out answers the questions that i'll be members might happen and then really gives the argument and supports his or her steps that were taken and after that the parliament makes this or that decision that we see the casket was not a listen to that heart of the prime minister to do that it was you and not vote discuss dr share of the success of the report was that were in those communities are but really bored in an end to that person as prime minister they really fired me and at that very moment it was a little chilly as parliament was surrounded by some sixty or eighty six zero eight zero thousand people he was you know

those who came to defend their friends the support and defend their friends and then i want to address them after i was fired and they told them that i am leaving to return and in three months after that i became head of the opposition opposes own choosing and that opposition after one year after that for the first time at a crazy history if you didn't well i'm haunted by the number of elected members to the parliament they won against economist for the first time they'd members elected from the opposition outnumbered the communists in the parliament thank you lulu chavez accuses money and i think that through these efforts we gave to really charted a new course for the countries that brought us close to the motivation and really worries fire to part ways but to say

goodbye to the soviet going to the soviet union was a big egos what the competition for talent there you know the superstitions and of course i am telling all these stories with you because if you look at those things you'd from today from vantage point of today this is about an episode in the recent history of the jews in those days it was perceived almost like an open combat please bear with me is that you don't need to because i want to share with you my feelings that you really understand my feelings and as the president up some have argued that the united states and other nations from the outside of issues were responsible for the orange revolution they supported it she thought all references from

civilization do you see anyway we got up on this question that is said today the mostly to go on there isn't a single pr campaign in the world which would at the expense of any money i would bring out into the frost which is seventeen twenty degrees centigrade multiplied by three and they have minus seventy new movie the two and half million people seventy eight one a centigrade is very bare a goal of the lone ranger the us where two and half million people at a motel or otherwise had to say fifteen percent all the voting population one third in russia there were many legends rumor circulating that that was an outside american jobs you know i respect the united states and really they're

vision they're actors wasn't way overestimating that was exclusively and only big energy on isolationist label was really then the spending that it touches you as an individual as a city is a salon that this is really your issue that has an impact on your cell phone or they're worried for about fifteen years of ukrainian independence some recent ten years or say five years not that those were the years of have a little bit odd those were the years of political tyranny we lost many good people during that period in the show he mostly of women who suffered so much that they had to still in your fate is in your hands we had one i'll stand the politicians meet my friend was no longer with us he was killed here just loved her interview

he wanted a very much for me to become president to run for president and he is a very well rounded cackle person who assures you should be intelligent person will be who went so they saved areas still rely on that is va the virgin course suffered for ukraine a marker in indigenous and then ford did the entire nation you would address the entire nation with one sentence remember that you noticed the ukraine starts with you and i think that this realization of that fact that the fate of a country the state all the nation depends on you it is in your hands unusable we don't sit around the state it's i go outside and separately i would like to comment on the foley in the first round on election i won in the second

round because all the total rating and for civic achieve that you needed was more of an audio experts assess the laser that there were forced vacations involved in one and a half million votes in balance and i lost a second round runoff and there were hundreds and hundreds of all girl criminal cases that were initiated on fortifications of regulation and people understood that they have to stand for to defend their vote there was and i am really a person who communicates with people great edits with people and i want to always discussed the problem but we are for it is do not want the president would not report to work for several weeks prime minister prime minister is a robot to work to office was locked but the

constitution does not say how to act under such circumstances because maybe there is a runoff and there is no further round of elections according to forcibly resettled there was no provision in the constitutional council so here it that all the tools at hand all the mechanisms had been used up and nothing is available with dozens of state and then there was the protest with guns are civil war is in the air that is syrian american cities in history ah and under those circumstances i bet on vix some babbling my friends alexander pushkin skate and then telling him we have to start to have a dialogue agreed that we need a third party we have to sit down at negotiating democracy will give an

answer hop to find a way all of this situation with rebels was the one that we have to meet with the president with a prime minister have a discussion with them ok i agree with you okay almost like a grain that is alexander britton as usual but it really was you all take several friends with me is the end of the aisle of a president of those wheels along from your saliva and together with that out of the senate and that's a line that we will count to ukraine come to you and thats how a negotiation started that letter to update an agreement on a package you know on the one hand i would do i yield that are the major party all the authority and power of the president and because that either party most of all they are afraid of all the powers of the president that

this book which might be giants the allusions add i gave away a lion's share of presidential powers to the prime minister and to the partisan an initiation they are therefore be recognized as unconstitutional the results of the runoff elections of the second round of that was that was the decision of the supreme court victory it was not recognized body by the party that represented the power of the forties and is concerned for them was true but other indiana for three nights you know up to five o'clock in the morning we were having were debating within the framework of that international commission and on the fourth day we found we did shoot a political way out and i think that was really really a major holiday for democracy when in my done that main

square there was not a single violent acts not a single unwelcome and then the solos not a single drop of latinos failed there is you and i can't make a statement now and they know that the authorities the government were waiting for that for blood to be spilled to have violence and i met in the middle of the night when the chief of staff of our troops people consumed and i asked for one thing if there is not a religion order to withdraw troops that were deployed to send in the troops to deploy troops into the square then you should ignore the oral degree or other quarters either of the president or the prime minister to send troops in to deploy troops you have to have a reagan signed an order and he gave his words and

he did which gave his word that he would send in troops only stationed out there is the written order by the minnesota journalist there isn't that out there isn't a grain as you know that has law enforcement police and i was convinced that are we this would really be afraid that he would not give his all right an unsigned order the bridge with the key is that the indiana's i'm proud and happy that we went through those tests that we really went through roundtable negotiations with the us and we find an answer to a solution for the native because the winter months really and why did they say they are protests at it as a beady eyes and confrontation and again i would it be that it indicates that he goes solo shows once again great arsenal been used but there's still all the mechanisms of dollars that democracy has

its it at its disposal than the problem is there isn't a single problem that cannot be resolved through and by indians all democracies forgive me for allowing and i thought that was a very compelling interest in the corridors of the past mr president of one of the lessons of the orange revolution and one of the future prospects for greg vicki lawrence revolution is it festive occasions i remember how these leaders oct twenty maybe twenty five political parties were standing behind me onstage during orange and indiana war ii movies bought those parties they were different and they ideologies and without horns of the losers will go to iraq they saw the look in different ways in their concepts how to build that in a building the country they saw different ways different roads fragrant i'm not saying that this is a somewhat for but this is just the truth

we are quite different for example says the socialist party and i know very well that the grainy a socialist party that is basically at its essence is comedy story but this is not the ideology that i share that i live with i know that they would not accept the people in a critical factors for example they would not accept open economy with a beautiful soliloquy they would be leaning towards some kind of sweet spot on your list a social justice again quote unquote which would be bubbly so they live in and this is the ideology that does not acknowledge not having how to really develop and acquire a source with the nation always wants to divide us live and share it and it always feels that this is the main mission in other words might not square is a nod to the arctic project alicia which is not a project or this or that or any

given party people will that is why my first developed his first obligation it was like your date of that accommodate the leaders of different political artist political forces that were with them might not and i had to give the whitest of them it was a very complex violent ideological a complex an ngo said ngos interested me angry is will all be any political guinea got a unfortunately talking in terms of party and party of allah says there were a few things that united us and there were about a dozen dozen and a half all parties that do that programs that would outline the purpose and the objectives for each political force that's why i can say that that was my first lesson or put this society the news you ought to have

a dominant ideology and for that it is necessary for each citizen this new show from when you were going to get a formulaic more clearly there are a lot of societal values what are you who are you know either you're a liberal to help them grow your or you're a soldier or you're christian democratic your prosperity gospel people to what is the system of your music what kind of values you want to happen to your children spend more from this than wine or forming a community it's impossible that one person goes this way and the other one goes the other women who would have to say we are talking about a society about the nation as a community that started breathing together consciously knowing what they're going to live and this is a major work that has to be done for the state and for the

benefit of the society to have a second mortgage i did not have a majority in the parliament i had about forty four zero votes in the car and i do not know a single other president who would really be working without any limitations and shackles and assess conditions was but i had to work for a year and a half with the majority that belonged to which was to previous presidents then and that's one of those it just was impossible it is simply out of the question to discuss our shared vision says a shared ideology share concepts we don't have things in common and that this is it really it was a bit ad hoc arrangements that were dominant in the parliament for many years lived in a second less lessons learned number three i think it is very important to you to have a

nice structure to defend all to safeguard democracy and one was two what i have in mind it just is it just or just to begin to honor slain abortion and honest police do you know how to fold for the department for a proper on his reforms using parliament as a tool not towards democracy instructor hitting should be infrastructure in the state of the show i've been released for a texan st lawrence freedom and the law that probably was the most difficult thing i have rats that i submitted to the foremost blows them have while the judicial reform that i submitted for approval it would never really be considered never reached the floor in the parliament for three and a half years and the

package to our options for redress that i submitted for love of those four three years were not reviewed were not dictated by the part of the view that this lesson number three what they also here listening to victor use and go former president of the ukraine and winner of this year's bold leadership prize he spent speaking through an interpreter to bill lacy director of the dole institute of politics at the university of kansas you're listening to play pierre presents on kansas public radio figure you say go now takes questions the audience how do you assess the possibility in the future more to use on that possibility of joining ukraine joining the european union last week bewitching korean ever since the republican tennessee get this that they would not let them as low bill completely that you wrote this was a

good five years i think we managed to garner a long win going away in other words coming closer to you but the decision was moved into the news abdul and the mother looked over a thousand eight the bush years but he reached the agreement number one build a social ritual of your grade will be assaulted a member of the european union with number two thank you we started negotiating process for these every regime for ukrainian citizens an eu member country and it seems to me that in december of this year an emotional team of the british tradition here we go again if you have a political decision about associate membership we have already carried out one hundred percent were in other words what metadata hundred percent of workers to make this

happen to what we in the city or we can get this that has all three trades oh he is a political coup and we'll both of those people will get a broadly roadmap for leadership roles is for visa free or at viewers remember they're able to countries that again eu members in a third and fourth wave of different and really they went through as a step to becoming full member author of a situation all associate membership so i think this part of the world it's part of exercise i value rather violent because we've done that sure mean the problem is what i do not like that with the fish that we really did not gain did not as it is once did not get the european perspective i hear reaction from europe oh it's so different and they think that their responsibility here lies with our european colleagues should do if we look at

lithuania estonia always use a lot of big checks this law once they're americans bulgarian starting with the year nineteen ninety what was the major impetus major attraction of all those who should be avoided for those governments to implement domestic relations with moscow one circumstance you oppose it you're the european perspective of alexander question yes he told me the circus when he crisscrossed all that a dozen times to and he called a combination to demonstrate a little bit of patience for the sake of one thing the shifting positions to become a year of eu member of the eu membership in the nazi it was

a generator a major local water for the nations that pushed for several days ago i was in the lead and it's a solution for them and that is the international economic forum in poland international economic forum an old old alex in the sound and the goals became the fifth economy in europe ranked number five in a day you were seventy years late on twenty seven billion are monitoring support that they cannot repay you know person from an interview all by a european team european club a european perspective was formulated in your daughter unfortunately ukraine was denied that i asked you about bitterness about when i talk about the summit in bucharest and now i'm talking about our nato integration are we we're not deny in action plan a roadmap and i

think that that was a major defeat a major loss for you do i just go to show you that then it's not be a member is all the club that made that decision that the decision was made not in accordance with nato stepped in addition to promote huge huge decision was made in eight different country in a different state which is not even a nato member state when you add it was really it was better and it's really belittled but this is the kind of policy update your question in the back and you make a comment or give examples of the attempts of russian government influence events in ukraine albanian hours do i have it it is important to

realize that for europe that is the most complicated problem at their ideology of portal two concepts for development with somebody who wants to live in the condition all the imperial ideology or the beauty of mindset you develop those who applies every effort for those values to raise you bring in within reason why the russian georgian war was started in our thirty forty years after passage the security agreement because of that really had a provision article integrity and recognition all the borders of the state for the basel acton is going to be gained the foundation served as the basis of international relations between the countries after the second world war the ground what happens that we lost for the

first time the territorial integrity of one of the european countries with the imperial ambitions as georgia begins smaller shrank by twenty percent of its quality of its previous territory that was allotted to regimes were created the news in south ossetia and in a person and you're just reacted to it ok will take that into account with the outcome of that one of the reasons for the ukrainian russian gas workers are usually would anyone in europe say some ten years ago google just start an idea that in the middle of winter when you have the orthodox christians see that russia can shut down i guess one thing i you know i think that ten years ago such an idea would not vote for anybody much less one part of europe it is my administration i want what that part of europe to

be larger than really subscribe still and one state democratic system about a little bit maybe it is not implemented as ambitious politically but it's really following that weighs one truth about ukraine about european other drugs have a curable and i am convinced that that is a smaller part that's a minority still lives in the conditions also imperial ambitions of imperial might i didn't lose everything in my power for ukraine to join that majority the chairs and lives with european values should the push into the motivation is it weird to me and i thought that european leaders would have more ambition to really spread and expand their area of europe and out but not everything octane sure that everything was implemented as far as the greatest concern was a

hostage and that whole list as i would say is not a simple one was lulu you're the witch without heart medicine it's hard to read but some of the positions of that place i could remind you when you know the usual thing with the new for me as a citizen it is not pleasant to feel that you should know but then there are decisions fast by the state duma of russian are going back dated nineteen ninety three civilians that the grainy is not ukrainian territory isn't pleasant to know that there is the decision has systems i made by that same entity that the city of sevastopol is a russian cities there were decisions of the security council that have not been cancelled out till now based on these two diseases it the status of crimea and the status of the city of sevastopol polar bear was a healthful diet

that they were building from his daughter of all i knew from the russian side where there is a narrow strait between russian territory of crimea to war you great is really i think doesn't bode well doesn't sit well with me that within twenty years we did not carry out the delegation of the borders with russia is really embodies that increases six there were two major serious gaffe couple of different and when they fall there does not lie with great gender identity are viscerally that i would not even like to mention here because i understand that you are with your neighbor you have to live well i think it's you who are you americans saying or maybe someone from europe said that she was usually won the prize and then there is your neighbor across

we have time for one last question to nationalize the final question for recreation go with the ukrainian politicians and band era and you shrink most controversial decision to award band era the title of hero of ukraine and there was a leader of a ukrainian nationalist movement in the nineteen thirties and forties and was responsible for proclaiming and independent ukrainian state in nineteen forty one a ukrainian court declared using those posthumous award illegal in two thousand ten it was officially unveiled the following year yes they also heard something like that you have one of those in a moment you say hello gary yak is the mission of most visible but within the us invasion mobility and you know it seems that in a lot of a generation that follows goes after my generation

after us usual league and if you ask people who belong to you a generation in ukraine who did you go to people who are twenty twenty five years old we got these are my children like that will that's why i can ask what lessons it was you after that young person tell me who are your heroes for his hulu evolving national hero heroes is close to you in their spirit i would like it for that young person to give me a quick and complete answer the blue and i think that what you're going to fish for many millions of ukrainians it is still a difficult question to answer that one for many of a lot of water also was a so good time until then here are the bush was nervous and i think that you know about that you the village of those that was hero

who really betrayed his father who reported when told of his father and now there is about a dozen heroes who were out standing at the hit all red band did deans our troops will be needed to each nation has to have its respective heroes nation has to happen it's all history shows what does history this is all this is it does not consist of different plots and lots of those is that he will soon as a legit historical invasion nation and says all the pages of its struggle for its independence and for free demolition of natural history well there are they're all in indigenous heroes and hero comic and they all be the one who fought for your independent i'll register with you the

last of the six declarations on independence by ukraine of educating made in the twentieth century is or was the five of them because what kind of evil he brought that they've built for those who persecute sure what did he do what we do bad things he did during the several new addition to that up till now as someone with great patriot they should mention his name wages and others mention his day with great love and respect and i will tell you about my persuasion what i believe we may see some saying there's a bunch of that as you mentioned in your question i wasn't really around collaborated with germany then i had this question for you what's and please tell me what did he builds starting with july of

nineteen forty one he was imprisoned and that's in house in which was a fascist capturing what this environment that though in the year nineteen forty two what kind of all anti human or inhuman acts was in the same our concentration camp that somehow the show but what did he do in nineteen forty three he is still in the concentration of what is he doing in nineteen forty four and it's awfully month of october so that was fun he is in the concentration camp in the fascist concentration camp where are his two brothers in nineteen forty two they were executed in a concentration camp a sense of the moment with the number eleven thousand free fifty seven that was the number on my father as the prisoner that can do or what where is that us father

was executed by firing squad by activity they would use is that where it is still says fears of the border they were sent into different concentration camps in the same period the cardinals german or fascist collaborators collaborators if you want i can get an answer that will supply that was a prisoner in the concentration camp of the decision and even more accurately i will not say what he did this knows that but i will say what he did not so the most important thing that he did not do in the good mood should be easily gleaned speedily did not give up his declaration he did not backtrack from sudan liberation all the independent ukrainian state on the thirties solvent through june ninth ward one that declaration was made on the thirteenth june nineteen forty one in the city of movie you say that shows him there was raised that he was lighter in washington's allusions

for our forgive me as well as yours is independent as wandell believes that there is a new president of ukraine from two thousand five to two thousand ten and leader of that country's orange revolution you shankar spoke with bill lacy of the dole institute of politics at the university of kansas on september nineteenth two thousand eleven when he received the door leader surprise translation was provided by alex swiatek of the university of kansas center for russian east european and eurasian studies i'm j mcintyre k pr presents is a production of kansas public radio at the university of kansas