Happy 60th to the U.S. Interstate Highway System

if your thanksgiving weekend included drive along interstate seventy or i thirty five i'm kay mcintyre and today on k pr presents week marked the sixtieth anniversary of the us interstate highway system it's a conversation about roads highways and getting from here to there across america later this hour we'll also hear part two of the better form on the president he held earlier this month it unity temple on the plaza in kansas city it's a look at the two thousand sixteen presidential election and what to expect from a trump presidency first two thousand sixteen marks the sixtieth anniversary of our interstate highway system a system that is credited to president dwight d eisenhower but dan mcnichol says the idea of a national highway goes all the way back to president george washington mcnichol is the author of the roads that built america the incredible story of the us interstate system of first ladies too generals of know these two

american heroes and when they become the president i say each one of them turned to roads as a solution to keep the country safe and to keep it together eisenhower with the now famous and sometimes infamous interstate system that's called a dwight d eisenhower system of national system or their state and defense highways right there in the name andrew washington laid out the national road there was a call that was laid out who is neiman colin's trail an indian trailer turn into his the fruits of of progress and fortune this is famous river the delaware company to go out and get furs and materials and that and eisenhower and washington both obsessed a vocal in the roads because it was a matter of of homeland security would become account you mention that that first national roadway is based on an indian trail to what extent do our nation's highways mimic or parallel old native american trails you know you do some us farm

chalet insider of roads and user desire lines these airlines that have been explored since ancient times and we get blamed on new forms of of transportation along them so though the first trials that were in intros the unions were hunting and as they were trick chasing wild game of a baby girl from a path washington file that as a young man building his fortunes he fell that into the west the great west in ohio proof that the time for the candidates nye california end and that was his way of trade but i think is a man who literally laid out the road in fall that road and this is a life on that road george washington eye he knew that this pass this this desire line out west with a logical road to build the next generation of travel and that little water path a smooth path baby took out the trees and stagecoach as were soon running or shoes into the ohioans that the pressure the book eat it was remarkable the time so let's jump forward in the nineteen fifties when

president dwight eisenhower looks of the nation says we really need an interstate highway system what was in their direct impetus for him to do so eisenhower was looking at this as the president as they see a commander in chief was the best way to keep the country proper bowl safe and defended it he knew that oh those saws loss of life along these roads are they called us route fifty six bloody sixty six because recently had arms i n and with a divided highway the travel so much safer and he knew that and he said this over over again in his state of the union addresses usually brilliant campaigner he branded this idea and he pushed it out and he relentlessly to his first entire administration campaigned to get this road built through the state of the union often and he also signaled commerce a week we are stuck in traffic and if we can on bach or cells from that that congestion we will we will profit and lastly he knew that in the nuclear age it

was very important to diversify to do spread out are our defense factories and an important events locations and we did that eventually through what we call urban sprawl now but we we we moved out to the suburbs and we were able to spread ourselves out he also obsessed especially nineteen fifty five made more changes in his diary then about make a holocaust ever but he was very very concerned about after nicholas strike what would happen and the rebuilding he thought and the rescue and rebuilding would all take place along interstates and president eisenhower had some firsthand experience with just howled bad the roads were in terms of getting from one part of the country to another dating back to his experience in world war one even earlier back in kansas early evolution has a child from abilene and the chisholm trail that the rector ends it tickles often texas and was a movement of cattle but he knew

that this this movement the good news a place of the road for the military especially was going to help one the economy into the military there's this there's this constant back and forth between the two when the stronger the road the better the economy the more strong we are as a nation with a defense of network and the better the defense network we have the more we can depend on that road that we build for autonomy say goes back and forth and he knew that anything he built and he later warned us against city the military muscle complex but he built up that military muscle complex for one or two and he knew how important the road system would be for factories for workers for for shipping supplies not for marching troops down but for just moving the economy alone to mobilize one of the things you say in your book the roads that built america is that the genius of interstate system is in its uniformity when you know that verrilli interface doesn't belong to stumble upon this obviously note that

is people complain all time about how ben ali the roads are out on the interstate system how boring it is but it's designed to be boring is designed to be predictable is designed to keep you alive it was often the case when the big storm and our road to be on the pennsylvania turnpike in the nineteen forties then suddenly the roca internet or economic order and the roadsides would change the paper would change and those kind of sudden changes in and surface can be deadly of the idea of these interstate system is using you though it you know were with your washington state run for grower in california it's all the same and it's very efficient barno obstructions is not free as in you won't be charged for is not going to cost anything is just free of obstruction that's the realtor a freeway and by eliminating eliminating obstructions and limiting the access the often on ramps are you much more efficient flow so talk to me about the uniformity of the roads themselves what is that that interstate highway has to

have in order to b and it has to have that has a great point of this whole system is is a democracy and concrete steel it's amazing because it's a volunteer prof rubel for the state's venture where the states built their space systems with federal funding the federal government say here's a chuckle build it they sit you build trust us vacations we will reimburse you it's a big difference right so the states were motivated to build it as the feds water that they did it when they did do it correctly they got to check the reimbursement check for ninety ninety percent of the costs ten cent dollars the states work on them in the fifties sixties seventies but what is it look like you the basics it's a twelve foot traveling to them always no less than two in one direction four lanes both ways it's a it's a ten foot greg allen on the right it's a three foot shoulder on the left the green white santelli we're going to run a white wanted to find out what national park is at a blue and white one to tell you as a service ahead it's abridged is not lower than sixteen feet to get underneath it if

you have a minuteman missile ballistic missile you have to be telling for both the defense of that aspect of the interstate system and it's super mergers ingredients it's gentle way for the driver and this is easy to see around corners because they're so on a sharp and all those things come together possibly over forty seven thousand miles of predictability so you just hit on one factor that i that was really interesting in reading your book and that's that the roads can vary a lot in terms of their slow hp which person real challenges when it came to crossing the rocky mountains hasn't used to toss out writing is most interesting for the interstate system from a factoid of unfair point the highest point of the interstate system is underground in a time all over the rocky mountain eleven thousand plus feet going under the continental divide i mean they just nailed all these approach those engineering a

remarkable achievements it once when they built the eisenhower tunnel aptly named after him he loved colorado mamie his wife was from colorado and the eisenhower tunnel was not going to happen with the i seventy was never come across the great city can isn't dead end into denver and the denver colorado coalition congressman governor types went to washington said no we'll take that line that simple line and drag it across colorado and that's what real adult western colorado you just mentioned one of the two great interstates that crisscross of kansas i seventy as well as our other interstate i thirty five tiny little bit about those two interstate highways is in the middle of all these numbers and even really know we ought to adjust our families is good across two interstates you know where you are so i thirty five and i seventy on that that's kansas that that is one of the great north south highway said they're these grey interstates the gray ones the big ones

and in zero or five and you have two of them and i seventy goes east and west as the even numbers do and i believe i was north and south of the odd number ones do all he could tell engineers laid out the system ranks and i thirty five cadets camera with mexico to invite states that says that there's a question about commerce is polly i thirty five you just touch someone of a huge innovations in the interstate system which was predictability and uniformity in the naming of the highways which is something so they think we just take it for granted probably many of us have never really given much thought to how or highways are numbered but before that us interstate highway system was developed in nineteen fifty six were roads just named whatever the silk road or the national road or the dixie trail or it goes on and the roses love love roads being named emily special names they felt gave that robot the lincoln highway special meaning and

when they decided to go the numbers are nineteen twenty six it was seen as a radical act with obama said you know what we'll take all these dirt trails name them with numbers alone and numerically lay out this interstate system and it was a very large very ambitious idea and then in nineteen fifty six another interstate system was laid out with numbers as well but that's why in the numbering system you see the lowest numbers on the red white and blue shields in the southwest san diego and she did get higher as they go north and they go east to maine which has the highest number of the film red white and blue interstates of system shields and send the route sixty six is the us routes they began on the east coast in nineteen twenty six o one runs up and on the east coast and then as they go west as they go north a higher and higher number and i was a mirror image of each other just to keep them

from being a confusing but those numbers you really are so important for people once again to the port of uniformity people know they are a nineteen oh three that was not a map of the nine states with roads on that you have to make it up and when eisenhower won across the country in nineteen ninety nine as part of a military convoy i mean this is a well funded military adventure across united states really big road trip as eisenhower sought as a young lieutenant colonel is excited to be on it but they were looking for bars delivered for offenses they were looking for signs they had to have on indian and harley davidson motorcycles scouts easily us army core guys what ahead of the convoy to find the national road to find the only the lincoln highway is it was not on maps that they had a day to explore and figure out where that road was was more in their minds and on paper that was on the road on on the land and now we have these roads

that were either didn't have your gps you could find a way across the country one of their organization's was really key and helping people get from a baby was the aaa which really sprang out of this need to figure out how do i get from here to my destination of the mighty i'm a grandfather had a triple a cardinal instagram is on his car a lot of my and now take extra ticket that was there are there is there a brand that made them famous and i'm going to myself when a little boy office of the ghetto bunch of maps that would take me to my destination but you're right in uniting under i think aaa was the first of the one of the first to lay out the country and roads and you imagine this association that is so big no we're helping travelers and it was it was fun was exciting poses a dangerous to go off into the hinterlands because he became a fighter way back in time for supper and these road maps eventually help to get better and better and the naming of the rhodes went to

numbers as a way for the way to keep it simple what that the addition of the un the hundred numbers like to seventy or four thirty five that circles can safely with that pattern there that the pattern is remarkable if you look to the north south east west word work twice as long as we are are all wide aware were twice as long east west as we are higher north and south and that the numbers of the interstates the odd numbers going north and south there are they are thirty five of them go across the country even ones are longer like i ninety three thousand miles along swarm the system and those are numbers were not as out the evil as go east and west but then you have in addition to those sixty two super highways that make up the interstate system you have the spurs and loops and the loops are ones that will bring you back to the interstate system if you leave it so driving around the city often see a lapel way if you're on it it's the end of the even number of brings you back to the road that you're on so there are ninety five and you come

across forty five you'll be sure you get back to ninety five eventually if you see you one ninety five b where that's the smirk the issues you straight out to a destination but does unless i bring it back to backtrack so the the spurs the belts they all add into the system for a total of forty seven thousand miles wow that's a lot of highway with a lot of highway but it's it's only two percent not even of our total roses me about four million miles of road and more than half of them are paved which is a remarkable figure if you think throughout the mile service and then the big road as people call the truckers call the interstate system the big road the big road is less than two percent but it handles twenty five percent of the traffic and it's so fresh and then he keeps trucks and most desirable vehicles from city streets from the roads and from their world back country are are you are for popular roads and the ones that are so beautiful the people loved to drive on are one

wildly dangerous they might be seen it but they're dangerous and are not a sufficient but because trucks on lisa fischer rode the us routes and the other blue highways in america i have been preserved it's really wonderful to think that that message i think is on that big rodeo to complain about being boring i'm really glad you mention that because one of their challenges for people as they head down the road is that interaction between cars and trucks touchy about sort of that ten and between those two main groups of vehicles on our nation's highways messages they threw through conflict there's clarity you know the nsa says it was really built for cars now say was save lives to build up our economic engines and to defend the world the contrary he was a genius to moving moving which rules especially in the army end his military convoys of just weren't they we're the all of khrushchev

weekend to visit us it's used asked about how as are moved through europe all these supplies eyes those about trucking and trucking is really i think the real reason for the interstate system to slow commerce the idea was getting in our car during a road trip that's fun that's how most of us see the road and the station wagon with a wooden aside the kids packed up that's kind of the classic american vision of a road trip my mom had wanted it might add to it and this is the duty other but really those trucks are words greeley came back the bills and the return or investment for the interstate system they are though shoes are eighty thousand pounds that if they pose a great rest to most people in their minds maybe more than in reality they're often driven by buried professional drivers but at eighty thousand pounds a truck one truck passing over bridges the quilt of summit set up to ten twenty thirty thousand cars are cars are very light and cause i'm a slow down literally trial of the service the

trucks what a burden on the roads and bridges especially what are things you delve into it in your book the roads to build a bear attack is something palin must just don't really think much about and that's what our roads are made of the interstate system and roads are paved with asphalt talk about how that came to be and did the development of the actual physical part of the roads new wee wee wee with new low last great empire to build roads in the fifties this hour with a silk road in china it was the roman road system later the french the germans americans full circle back to nine states that they used almost become a truly can imagine these were often does lines in the desert it the silk road or the romans were famous for building a very deep road it's been those roads still exist to be able to say what they built them what the romans had still be here but they built them out the romans who would have no more stone left on earth are these drugs are so deep so

burdensome from financially or burdensome what we want what we learned later with the national road united states is that we could use shells we could use would we could use breck wicked used car we could use asphalt we could use concrete almost any mature was hard was it was considered a possibility we settle on asphalt it's amazing if you take a chunk of asphalt on the road you're looking at a hundred pound stone on your desk was actually five percent glue that's the asphalt the black stuff and then the ninety five pounds would be still is five percent asphalt ninety five percent stone that is a typical road with the asphalt is it's genius because it flexes it moves its lights it you don't need to go that deep into the earth and maybe more poorly than its flexibility as its waterproof ms yin and roe believes water water water right there that is the killer so is all the dress dress train expert at mass paul wrote was a perfect roof over a road that to keep it from him getting damaged

was a hole called upon all of that that will destroy your foundation and that was so costly the potholes that are not treated did your book about the interstate highway system is called the roads that built america as opposed to the roads that america built touchet i visited isn't because it's a great american story about us all being together and decide to build as if government is what we do together infrastructures what we build together and this roses to really links us but it's once the system was built that was a remarkable achievement has a lot is engineering project in history the world at the time but more remarkably i think the system continues to give aid it excel or aid shipments eight allows precious goods to the ship that has reduced the cost of goods sold every can afford the things that so few could afford the past as that ability to move about that is so all american that has led us interchange socially with each other it's it's been a remarkable

feature both from an engineering point of view from a social economic point of view and i think eisenhower knew that he was going to be successful it has a bigger bill but i don't think even he could've been guests at the successes can have by building up our economy one of their things that the highway system really shaped in terms of our economy was how it helped create a whole industry of roses services like holiday and howard johnson's mcdonald's the things that people of my age remember on up on those road trips that there were certain scenes that you could find like howard johnsons that no matter where you were in the country you've got to find one of those talking about how those were linked with the building of internet state system is the system really brought all sorts of one of all things and sometimes not so wonderful things to different parts of the country but if you look at the south and it's a great example in the south they were very limited with with roadside

accommodations to have an interstate come down to the south men you were to tobacco road you are wondering is that the places days those a house of food there was the bed like a desoto audiences as a rock high paying jobs but will secure the health care benefits it brought in a broad civil rights down to the down to the south a courthouse stairs for saying yo woman my family travel we stayed on the interstate because it was saved because the holiday inns would allow black people to stay overnight which was in the case and a lot of the post i was was in the south at the time soon here we have all these wonderful things happening which you have the owners of these big franchises like mcdonald's and holly and flying over the interstates as are being built in the nineteen fifties and sixties say there is going to really be a location to put a hotel there's been a grim place for a restaurant and then now we see huge starbucks eyes alabama say come here it's just sit along that uniformity

combs franchises branches are all about uniformity in because of his pattern going back and forth to boil know where to seek out originality and the demands of that because i i have a number of friends who don't like to travel on the interstate system because they liked to take the back roads in and find things that are more i was healthy american bit just maybe more unique to a particular region or look how to ruin porn the station because iowa dr munnell carter writing for non us and all around the country promoting infrastructure and the road system talking about and to do that we have their citizens' gentle so the car could climb easier it'll wasn't surprised but that pavement usually the day we peel off of my partner and i we would peel off and who would look for roadside greasy spoons keys those are the fun place to go that are you really see americana and as you see

i can speak to people i'll without that kind of intensity or the rush that you have when you're at a roadside interstate highway pressed up you were your book about the interstate system back into thousand six when it was the fiftieth anniversary of the system update at the depth and then what kind of challenges do we face today what has the past ten years meant in terms of what our interstate highway system looks like we go home well i came to kansas city a shell cracked of the paper of the past us in a tragic as your car flipped over on the side of the road of the tally someone come off for thirty five i believe and in the northern corps you see driverless cars coming another article separate article but the two are linked so when you think about driverless cars or you think oh i think of horses carriages you know seems so strange that his carriage which which was about what was with a motor inside or sauna and now we're looking at cars that will drive themselves or do drive themselves and i think that's the

future i think these big roads that we have our land banks putting these big roads are opportunities for other forms of transportation that the road in a car as a great model has been a great model but what will that look like in the future with driverless cars we may need far fewer of them so that to be an eighty percent reduction in some people's opinion about how the causal c on the road because of the swordfish and most was always a car five percent of the time so that coal is costly news you need fewer of them and ride sharing would become common commonplace and it's also can certainly much safer so this week high wages interstate torturing utilities or tank trucks and cars assuming what the driver was carson and what the high speed trains running down i'm somewhat the other modes of transportation running underneath them on them above them like drones delivering packages and how did you get interested in the subject of roads and highways like dead in the back o say showing on summer vacations you know going on and on about the building of the interstate system and what they were

all about family road builders so is it was carr says that we we never stopped having an epic a black into this obsession almost manic it does about rove's book i think what's so exciting about it is always social care has always social it's always a social political discussion about what we choose to build away we go why we do it and the roads are remarkable but is that that social and of course it takes place long as rose i think is the most stunning part about the system and how you all came to go to build a great model democracy and if you could change one thing about our hybrid system what would be the usage i would love to see beit look i do a lot of biking in a ferret everybody when you're a pedestrian you look at the bus was without with very ironed and the cars litter the bus wasn't that osha's evoke or whoever you are there were a given moment bicycles are the best route that was kind of the beginning of the good roads

movement these bicycles are going out for the before cars came on the scene in a big way and i just think there's a great opportunity to put bikes along roads years it's one louder first notice aren't allowed and trains and i think if we get a high speed train line between kansas and lois if we get high speed trains to take up the right of way and the land that was so valuable is that that path that we now have that we should put to better use dan mcnichol is the author of the roads that built america the incredible story of the us interstate system i'm j mcintyre you're listening to kbr presents on kansas public radio for the rest of this hour the two thousand sixteen election and what to expect from a trump presidency it's part two of the bent form on the presidency sponsored by the truman library institute in independence missouri this event was held november twelfth two thousand sixteen at unity temple on the plaza in kansas city this year's forum

featured david boundary lee editor at large of time magazine jane mayer of the new yorker and presidential historian douglas brinkley if you missed last week's kbr presents part one of the better for him it's now archived at our website k pr that k u die edu we take up our two right before the panel takes questions from the audience as david bond really talks about donald trumps television show the apprentice one of the things that reality tv does is it creates the illusion of intimacy week think we know these people in a way that that we were never in there with the characters on scripted dramas that these quote unquote unscripted things we feel like we know them and i i believe that was really essential to trump's ability to go through what would've been a fatal gaffes or early may

candidates because that tells you that if the people don't know you but if they feel like oh i know da tom i know you don't really mean that is the sense of the nanny and that comes from the reality tv it's also the best i urge anyone to go online and take a look at at just one episode of the apprentice it is the best advertising you could ever have for someone jane mayer writes for the new yorker and is the other of many books about politics he writes in the beginning with you know the trump chapter beautiful women standing waiting to open the door for him important people are bowing down there's just one quick shot after the next a glamour glamour glamour money money money rock n roll music playing it's like you know it's a it's a it's just a oh to success reality tv show on the

following a scam and others who like everyone else one of the big disappointments century the new york times the washington post time magazine is why do we have so why have the protests allowed so little information about what this man is the fear that as i have the greatest fear that i really don't know where we're going and it seems like we never got past his gentle drama never condemned them why you know i was just reading something that said that there have been it's a grand total of this will be true but i did read this david plouffe wrote an essay in which he said have been thirty two minute it's of policy discussion in this whole campaign year on the three networks ahmed so talk about not wanting someone down i think we had written a lot about his character in his businesses potential

ethical issues but it's surprising how little he's really been pressed on what he would do omnia there was not because he doesn't know he doesn't know but they're not and i don't mean that as a remark by police given no thought to it and so you can all a half so many times to me we have worked for and a half hours of the days and he was asked again and again and again what he's going to do is going to make america great again i mean what more do you need to know about one question in those debates that global warming and i think sometimes worried that if we write about complex policy it's boring and one of the things i liked about when i worked at the wall street journal as we used to say our motto was we dare to be dull

and that sometimes you have to be and maybe you maybe were you know not doing them enough yes and dark money you talk about the red map isis wondering how much jeremy enduring affected trump's election with electro collins well that's a big question is the i mean obviously if we didn't have the electoral college hillary clinton would be president she also would be president she got fifty thousand more votes in three states with a pennsylvania our michigan and wisconsin just fifty thousand votes in those together in those three states so i'm a gerrymandering has made a difference particularly in in in the house race is obviously and i think that again this year arm that there were more votes for democrats and republicans but more republicans elected in a framework for republicans decide ok ok well in twenty ten there were more votes because a gerrymandered districts for democrats but more republicans elected

it possibly gerrymandering does is it gets us candidates that are more stream maybe on both sides and so if you're not getting it at a kind of odd i think of america as possibly increase interest and not that ideologically extreme are in the in the in the main card and you're getting candidates much more extreme because of those that the cheery gerrymanders is not the one party better to the other is that the two parties are sections of the two parties got together and divide it up and that does your safe seats and our associates and who was left out of that the people in the little ol so the folks here i don't believe the system is rated as the president elect said over an argument there are some points that are written and the electoral college's

i supported by this rage no question about it the visitor today is red and it's rigged in favor of the people are in power against people who would like to knock him off frankly this is of course a neutral form right people here who support him and to support from people who don't people in the middle of song wanna records let me say this way yet phase do not turn out well in the ensuing months in years with the president elect or what we do as individuals we have three very bright person's this evening and i'm really interested in what individual americans like best in the deaths of other people here the folks roll well read i'm sure they all the three police they can set off a

radar tweets it's still a plutocracy is the one that in your book so one thing i've one takeaway i would like to have to meet one of music what we as individuals do to make a difference if things do not around well a flaw but to say i ought to say something about when you studied history for a living i always say the point of history that remind us our own times are uniquely of press presidential historian douglas brinkley and we tend to be everybody exaggerating the world one way or the other what's happening here that they could be staying calm and then working together as a country again i don't find it i find the united states a miracle ice flying wright flyer abroad and i come back or i can't wait to get on american soil i could love all people that are republicans or democrats in my neighborhood friends from childhood bearable i just try to look how can we unify and holding together right now we were talking about veterans

affairs who fear among us doesn't want to do more to help veterans we all do but how cleanup polarize about how can we work anybody and i know this is sort of a hunger for new moon shot to reduce the modern joe biden's tried a persona war on cancer we can do things big americanism that's collectively inspiring unfortunately we made the mistake of the iraqi war as her big collective enterprise to really it was a boondoggle so were looking for that someone and then i think just local politics and local levels keep fighting for local parks fight for rivers and streams to protests that you need to get good candidates on the ballot getting engaged in politics don't actually made our young people anymore om you know about politics they're they're sick of the cause of the way we presented it to him and teach parents have to teach young people how to use the internet proper way that

they don't go to sites we just say here as terrorists one the way that it all but he wanted delgado hate sites the goto back and factually inaccurate things we don't have middle school classes to how they do information age understanding and so we got a guitar back education we gotta get into schools and these we got to give kids the tools of technology incentive to say plug in and go what's really what they're looking at stuff my son johnny's age twelve years old event and they're already going trolling on sites in this is that we've kind of lost track of our young people on the internet in a pre taped because of our daughter annie must go on similar show you read what they say you know you work was paid out there your job they hate language is a vitriolic out there and how can we learn to teach each other with a sense of dignity of

imminence of the respect and fairness here we are in the middle of the country and i have always had confidence in our electorate it nationally that no matter what the left coast the right clothes or whatever people do moderation comes and survives this is the first election i've seen that has really not done it and i'm just wondering what the last speaker said which was what we do always hear clear otherwise we wouldn't be here by some of that is since cbs entertainment enterprise has been going into our news media and i find that i mean donald trump is a perfect example here

is you know a media person and for whatever reason he was elected and i just find that shocking i don't know how we'd go back to the dignity of the presidency of the person know that we're not going back again david andrea lee of time magazine and i don't mean that the one of the dignity or mutual more more a more respectful society i don't know generalize too much about the audience but the words we're not heavy on young people here journey stalled in the garden out our area but all that we grew up with is never coming back there will never be three networks again that offer a

government licensed utilities and therefore have to present both sides in order to keep their licenses there will never be monopoly newspapers and towns again that are thriving and can to try to bring people together to have the largest possible audience we now live in a time of fragmented audience and stand away fragmented audiences are monetize is by giving them more of what they want nisha audiences didn't know when we were younger now they pay the example i like to give them most highly rated news program in america for the past ten years twelve years has been the o'reilly factor on fox they actually bill o'reilly as an audience of three to four million people a day and nine saying seventy nine eighty eighty one not a lot

of forgotten here ah cbs decided to challenge johnny carson by putting joan rivers on tv as a late night host she was on for one week she had an audience of five million people and was canceled there wasn't enough people so that world five million people was enough to get canceled in a week this world three million people is enough to make you the king of the world that's the world we live in now and it's never coming back so are young people who are not here to hear my my message but they're not where the governor of rio seven same amount fanfare as free you have to be calm and they are and they are becoming much more savvy consumers of the new media

then we are in our generation best thing you can do is terminal itself and also outside an end do what god was saying no work with your neighbors to build a new parker some that politics that is very important it's at a whole different level so we were going back into the same media universe abraham lincoln came up in everybody had their own newspaper everybody had their own press and they read what they want to and they were obviously highly polarized enough to kill each other six hundred thousand people we don't want to go down that road we got law and to consumers and then find that what's real and ignore what's not somewhat optimistic despite all right younger generation i have

got a daughter and i think ahmed like to hang out with her kids her friends and a good a good bet and tom the other kids in our house and i think there are they are savvy they screen out a lot of junk and i think look at how they're voting in her own body and they were they were not the big cohort deal alike to donald trump as their pet whatever their politics i think a conspiracy that there's a lot of open mindedness on social issues and tolerance it's much more you know multi racial in that in that generation i think are some absolutely no i mean i see a lot of a lot to feel good about really end and i'm you know maybe you know and it did maybe they can get power fast enough women donald trump is not be a young person that he's a seven year old saying he wants to to make america great again bring a backwards in a way says a

reactionary om you know you can get it and and not the future i think good news i ended on the main last week was that with the seven year olds sixty nine year old running onstage is every possibility that this is the last election heading to baby boomers and speaking of one of the last one of this generation the dog and i think that the taylor our generation has been uniquely conflict oriented from day one out of the diapers i mean the baby boomers have been arguing fighting protesting throwing bombs counter revolution revolution back and forth hateful and soon will be no and i at that point a

number for us but for the double related voices on and try to get some historical perspective roy cullen who was party to act and a rubber stamp the risk of young republicans what some is apparently a donald trump's mentors politically and a related question when we sat in this is the sister time he ran in eighty eight and then also in two thousand on the reform party begins in elections there along with dozens of the first time that that has tried to compress them there is a lot to talk about his whole career now jon meacham is wonderful book on president forty one yemen raddatz weren't worth reading he has a little and editor of trump was trying to get on the vice presidential ticket with george herbert walker bush in the eighties in the bush people just play like a love bomb and that he was high salaries had i think some political ambitions some all

along or colonies of the party it was deliberate to be associated with the party and there's a lot of joe mccarthy and donald trump fake list of wheeling west virginia you know you know there's many communist on my mind you know that the good that he would party would embellish and make up stuff and shopping for a while that they had gotten eisenhower in an hour and he was able to eventually take joe mccarthy i'll let go don't underestimate its mccarthy i kind of feel that all that trump has embraced stalin as an operative from the nixon years and the weirdest part of the un it beyond the fact that the new york times decided to do a fashion world violence we wonder what all of journalism roger stone out where is he went over and met with hamas option and now analysts but the guy who's hacking or or or democratic party and he's going over there to meet with

the hack chiefs over there in the worst outbreaks the drums and you know and i would do that so i find the coal and stone connection to the trump campaign in the insidious and repulsive i was i was eager to hear what you would say it was the weirdest thing about rogers he has the next and in the end the victory pose tattooed on his upper back which has got to be on the list of weird is at unc renovated and the new yorker is an unbelievable set us thinking for coming then i was thinking about what he said about the man once the possibility that a prompter wife is related to and the new order didn't really set up between united states and russia and then the second

point as well what happen is draw upon an obama to the supreme court like you know you're a man after my own heart it i was thinking that i'm not long ago a bunch of friends over couple glasses of wine that we needed to write this or a thriller novel that turned out to have the line you'd be the sleeper agent i planted so i think the father was somebody who was a dignitary in the current failing communist state of slovenia before that in the old days so i you know i i i would be nice to think that obama would be appointed by donald trump to the supreme court but i have affiliates in the list the list was interesting we prepared by the bait far from draining the swamp and

washington some of the old hands that have been you know in that swamp for a very long time and working and right wing you wrote a book about the euro clarence thomas' confirmation hearings i wanted to ask you that reminds me in it is i gather there's a decisive number of people in this election voted on the court evangelicals are turned out and they turned it or sanders then again from those in on paper lookalike troy's for the evangelical community but they did i turned out form because of the poor is this as the court become too political you know i i i've talked to people who know more about it than i do on our psyche that the dean of stanford law school who's written a

book about the court and he said it's it's you know a kind of a myth to think that it was ever otherwise ahmed and that there's always it's always been seen as that really by the innards innards times that dred scott one thing very quickly to sever that were revised but though william william o douglas the great supreme court justice about fdr point in nineteen thirty seven it's our long as justice was staged so much for saving of wilderness in the end byron an international park some are public lands this has been the centennial of the national park service i'm deeply worried about what the trump administration is going to do and opening up our public lands every pipeline and mining outfit no no man on on the koch brothers in oreos of protect international breast lands are national forest it is one area i deeply circus used to they can go in and start doing what reagan tried to do with what i don't get your inner wasn't hers military

eventually the good news is the public yes but we can do public screen you're not doing that or are are public lands and reagan and again we don't want fish in foreign policy alexander haig was the secretary statin and reagan had to get rid of are paid because he was going to getting crazy in his thinking as senators day we got george shoals the greatest secretaries of state in american history so mom and reagan did the right thing by grabbing were going with short so here we are just a good joint you know and watch what was going on in a post people that are working that are doing damage to the public welfare think we have time for two more so ago here in iran sorry we can't take a mall yes i'd like to talk about their situation in rural america like in the film hell or high water we're all these towns are dying is no longer a general store the banks are

closing the post office a shutdown so security offices shut down it into a shopping may have to go thirty or forty miles along markets is turning out to be the place to go places and the koch brothers by the way they live in new york or at least one of the david french who but why doesn't the media talk more about this because it's been going on for thirty years cities townships he is a separate business after business failed and roads are turning to gravel in an ornate are talking about it it's true and and i think maybe the you know every now and then you'll see a feature or something on it minutes of the media lives in the big cities we're on the costs for the most part and maybe not enough in touch we were talking earlier about down the how we really need to get out

and safely get their hands and and talk more to people and say what's really going on this was a this was a wakeup call the selection of the press among others are for i'm curious since we started this talk about the supreme court through court doesn't fully even if there is a change in the balance of the supreme court can he really navigate the movement that has occurred in the last twenty years it is a lot about the respect for individual rights and freedom and has a small sign says you need the criticism relatively calm as i recall bobby kennedy was very much an accolade avoid go so you can always take a stand that because someone was with this one that is automatically mr conan saw that the job of the kennedy family was very close to work

yo bro well as a brilliant lawyer i want to turn briefly over urban images in the spring we're part of all about two men to two women just prefer that's a lot for a new president and sniff every school it didn't i'll pass you had been in that now that's going to be killed by somebody like him and that the with the partial be private or will be getting a conservative and that's i think what that happen will be what happens after that and who survives a year to come down that might be so intimated the big fight for the heart of america in the spring form it down the pike at a year or two obviously it was very difficult once again david binder aly i'm less afraid of them and a lot of people on the you ask about individual rights the biggest individual rights case of the purse a presidential term was surely the marriage case and that opinion was written by reagan

appointee anthony kennedy people who are on the court for twenty thirty forty years it's hard to predict where they're going in a row the verses wade is much more deeply and shrine in the law than it was before ronald reagan because of that case called planned parenthood vs casey written by reagan appointee sandra day o'connor so bad things can happen good things can happen but i'm the older i get the less time i try to spend in the prediction that's david bond really of time magazine and moderator of this year's bennett forum on the presidency held november twelfth he was joined by jane mayer of the new yorker and presidential historian douglas brinkley this event was sponsored by the truman library institute i'm j mcintyre k pr presents is a production of

kansas public radio at the university of kansas